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Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Writing for Well-being with Beth Kempton [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PP: Thank you for joining us for episode 425 of Live Happy Now. What would you say if I told you that picking up a pen could change your life? I'm your host, Paula Felps. And this week, I'm talking with Beth Kempton about how writing can help you connect with your feelings, your creativity and ignite your dreams. As the author of many books, including her latest, The Way of The Fearless Writer, Beth knows firsthand how writing can help boost our well-being. More than 30,000 people have taken her online writing courses. And today, she's here to talk about why becoming a writer is more about what it does for your soul and becoming a bestseller. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:42] PP: Beth, thank you so much for joining me on Live Happy Now. [00:00:47] BK: Oh, it's my pleasure what a treat to get to talk to you about writing and call it work. [00:00:52] PP: I know. I'm so excited to have this conversation because, you know, writing has been part of my life since I was a child. And I think it's an amazing way to connect with ourselves, connect with others. And to begin with, I wanted to find out about your writing journey. Tell me how writing started for you. [00:01:09] BK: I don't remember not writing. I mean, I was surrounded by books since – well, for as long as I can remember. They were a part of decoration in my house as a child. Books everywhere. And even when we didn't have much money, my mum would always prioritize buying books, going to the library. And interestingly, we would be rewarded with books. And I remember she had this bin bag. Here in the UK, we have black bin bags. Well, these days it's just landfill. But back in the days of no recycling, we used to have these big, heavy, black bin bags that she would fill with books. And if it was a rainy day, we'd get to go in the cupboard under the stairs and pick one out. Like a lucky dip. So it always just been such a wonderful part of my life. I didn't get to writing books until much, much later. But I have always written. I mean, I have over a hundred journals in cardboard boxes in my attic. And not always writing the same thing. Not always – only journaling. Not always writing stories. Not always writing lists. Just literally, it's just a mishmash in every journal. And it's very interesting to look back through certain periods of my life and see how what I wrote changed. How I wrote changed? And even the style of writing changes. Like if I'm very excited, and traveling and good stuff going on, I tend to write like really loopy and big. And then some of my journals are like really, really tiny neat writing. As if everything is – I'm very constricted. It's very interesting to look at that. And I wasn't aware of it at the time. But when I came to write about writing, I started to think about all these things and realized how I've really traced a path through my whole life with words. [00:02:55] PP: And that's interesting that you saved all that. Because that's important. I know, as a child, I would write a lot of stories. And when I read them now, I'm like, "Oh, did no one call CPS?" Because I was working out a lot of family stuff in my stories. And my mom ended up saving them. And I read them now and I'm like, "Oh, my gosh. I was a little kid trying to process trauma." And I was doing that through telling these stories. [00:03:22] BK: That's incredible though, that you did that and put it on the page. [00:03:27] PP: No. That was just such a way – even back then, without me realizing, it was such a way for me to speak my truth and be able to tell a story even though I was telling it as fiction as somebody – it was happening to somebody else. And it was happening in other times. You know, like medieval times, or Hobbit times, or whatever. [00:03:44] BK: Yeah. [00:03:46] PP: But, yeah. For myself, that's where it began. Like I started using storytelling to work through some of that stuff that I couldn't process as a kid. And so, I think it's so wonderful that you were able to save all that and look back really on your life through the eyes of your younger self writing that story. [00:04:05] BK: Yeah. I mean, one of my favorites is a five-year diary from when I was a teenager. Um, it's one of those where it's got the same day every year for five years on a single page. So you can see how I'm maturing in the way I write. And also, the things I notice and care about and write, it's fascinating. I wish I'd kept that up all my life. [00:04:25] PP: Oh, yeah. Oh, man. That's a great one for our listeners to jump on to. That'd be a great practice to start where, one day, you pick the same day every year and you write about where you're at. That's fantastic. [00:04:37] BK: Yes. And I think what's wonderful about that is that when you get back to the first page, January the 1st, or whenever you started, you realize how far you've come. And I think sometimes when things are really difficult, it feels like we're treading water or we're kind of going through mud and nothing's changing. But something is always changing. And it's not always a good idea to go back and read everything. Sometimes I think just getting onto the page and getting it out is the best place for it to be. But for little snippets like that, it can be really good to remember, "Oh, yeah. I was experiencing that. And I don't feel like that anymore. And I've come far." Whatever. It can really help you notice those changes however small or big. [00:05:19] PP: And what I love about that too is you can look at it. If you're going through a difficult time one year, you can look back and say, "Okay. But three years ago, look how good things were." And you can see, like it can get back to that again. You start recognizing how cyclical everything in life is. And you're going to have years that are amazing. And you're going to have yours that you barely survive. But you can kind of track that. [00:05:45] BK: And see that the difficult periods end as well. Everything ends at some point, which can be hard to see when you're in it. But it's a beautiful way to capture that, for sure. [00:05:55] PP: That's a terrific tool. I love that. At what point did you realize what writing could do? That it was more than just something you were driven to do. But you really realized it was a need? [00:06:08] BK: Well, I think I wrote my way out of my corporate career just in terms of what I wrote in my notebook. And I was just talking to my husband about this the other day actually. Because we're soon on our way to Japan for the summer. And we're taking our children now. And they've never been. But we got engaged there 12 years ago. And he took a sabbatical from work for six months. And he took a notebook, a brand new notebook with him, and he went to Japanese school in the morning. And every afternoon, he would cycle down the river and sit by the river and write in his notebook. And he'd never done that before. It was like a whole new thinking. And he wasn't really aware of what he'd written. And then he said – he was looking on the plane home and realized he'd written, "I must quit my job," about 15 times in his notebook. And he hadn't even realized he'd written it. And so, he came back and quit his job and joined my company. And we've been working together ever since. But I think that often happens. It's what you write over and over again without realizing it. It's like you're trying to send yourself a really important message. I've done that as well. But in terms of understanding how it can help us through difficult times in – I mean, in my work, my company is called Do What You Love. And I help people to navigate difficult times in their life or change career and find ways to do what they love. And most of my teaching is online. And I've always had a lot of very interactive exercises, which I think in the beginning I didn't realize how much they would generate words. I would just ask people questions. And I think it's strange to – especially being British, to name my own superpower. But if I have one, it's probably asking questions. Just asking people exactly the question that they need to hear to find their own answer. And so, that's what a lot of my courses have done. And what I was finding was that people were just writing and writing and writing and finding that that in itself was helping them. Never mind the answers that they were discovering in the writing. I felt that more than a decade ago. And as we've gone on and I've started teaching actual writing classes. Not very conventionally. There's never any feedback in my writing classes. And they're very warm, comforting places. There's absolutely no critique or anything like that. It's absolutely just about learning to trust yourself and getting your words on the page. But it's amazing to see how people open up. And when they start their writing habit, you come – I do a lot of seasonal writing courses. And so, they come back the following years. This is what we were talking about with the diary. And they've kept their writing habit up all year round and they come back again. Say, they were in the winter one. They come back the next winter. And you can see how they've worked through so much in their life. But also, how their writing has developed. Because they're allowing themselves to just write whatever wants to be written rather than trying to call something on the page. And I've found it in my own life. But more than ever this year. Because I lost my mum a few months ago. And it's just been such a difficult time. I was very close to her. And it's interesting because I had a very strong 5am writing habit before she became ill. I'd done it all the way through writing The Way of the Fearless Writer. And it's really how I get books written as somebody – a mother of two small children. I have to be up early in the morning. But that whole routine went out of the window when she was diagnosed with cancer. And I spent the last weeks of her life by her side the whole time. There was no routine, whatsoever. But I kept writing in all sorts of ways. I had a journal. I'd write a lot on my phone. I would speak into my phone as well. And I recently put this all together. And there are thousands of words. And where my brain has kind of went to mush and I couldn't really remember the details of what had happened. And I'd find myself going towards biases of certain things. Things were really difficult. Things were really beautiful. Things were really challenging. Depending on my mood, that's how I was reflecting. I looked at my notes and it gave me a much clearer picture of the whole thing. And I'd captured entire conversations with my mother. And I'd captured my own experience of going through something that I never experienced before. And now I'm still in the very early stages of grief. But without question, writing words myself and reading, poetry especially, it's been incredibly feeling. [00:10:51] PP: Yeah. What a gift you gave yourself to – because when you're in the middle of that journey. And as you said, it's a blur. You're going through it. You're on autopilot a lot of times. There's so many big emotions involved. And to be able to sit down afterwards and see what you were feeling and what you were going through. And you find – you discover good times that wouldn't have stuck out to you had you not written it down. I think that's such wonderful advice. And like I said, it's such an incredible gift that you give yourself, give your future self, to be able to document challenging times and see how you made it through. [00:11:26] BK: And I think that's exactly the right word, to document. And I wasn't differentiating between what's a beautiful thought, or a poetic thought or something, "Oh, I must capture this." Because I just had an idea about the meaning of life or whatever. I was capturing everything. There's medical notes. How much she drunk, you know? Or pain relief she'd been given followed by a line that might be in a poem. Followed by what the weather's like. A conversation I'd had with one of my brothers. You know, it's a real mishmash. But it's so interesting to have it all as a picture. And actually, I'm working on another book now. And a whole chapter is based on those notes. I didn't write them to become part of a book. But as it so often happens, when we're completely honest with our words, something really important bubbles up out of it. And you can sense a kind of truth that maybe doesn't sit in the individual words. But when you look back at the whole thing, you can kind of see into the heart of it. And that's certainly been my experience these past few months. [00:12:31] PP: Yeah. And I want to talk about the fact that, so oftentimes, people say, "Well, I want to be a writer." And they feel like if they're not going to write a book or if they can't get a book published, there's really no reason to write. And I come from a very different place on that. I have had some books published. but I've also written manuscripts that were entirely for the journey of writing it. It was telling the story. And it didn't really matter if that story ever got out. It was my need to tell that story. Can you talk about the importance of people considering writing even if it's never going to be published? Even if only one other person reads it. Or if nobody reads it. What is the value of discovering that writing journey? [00:13:15] BK: It's such an important thing to ask ourselves. And I'll be completely honest and say, when I got my first piece of paid writing published, it was in a travel magazine. I was still quite young in my early 20s. But I think I thought, "Oh, my goodness. I'm a writer now. I've had this validation from an editor who thinks it's good enough to pay me. And they paid me enough money to buy a visa to go to China. Oh, my goodness. This is like the real deal." But, obviously, in the year since I'd come to realize that writing has nothing to do with money. For me, writing – there's many reasons to write books. But the financial side of things purely buys me time to do more writing. That's really what it's all about. And I think our society has a lot to answer for in terms of why we feel that way. And, I mean, I've had thousands of people through my courses. And the same things come up again and again. And we trust other people's opinions. And we value other people's opinions more than our own. Why is that? It's crazy. When you start writing from that point of view, you expect what you write to begin with to be – has to be really good. Otherwise, I'm going to get – someone's going to say my writing's rubbish. And then my confidence is going to be crushed. And then – well, probably. But nobody said you have to share your writing with someone as soon as you put a sentence on the page. I mean, if you go back through my journals and my notes, even notes from my MacBook manuscripts, until very far down the line, they're a little rubbish to someone else reading them. And I put a lot of effort into polishing my sentences towards the end. But I'm interested in what comes from my heart and spills onto the page. And some people call that flow. What is really important to remember is that flowing the writing doesn't mean flow in the reading. [00:15:19] PP: Ah. That's true. Yeah. That's a good point. [00:15:21] BK: It really doesn't. There's work to do to make it flow when you read it. But the flow in the writing is I feel like it's connecting to something very, very deep and important in the human experience. It's very bizarre when you get to a point that you can spill words in a way that you almost can't remember what you've written until you look back and read them. And so often, what you read back just feels like something you knew but you don't know how you knew it. And when you get to the point that you can do that, which simply comes from practice, from ritual, from seeing writing as a sacred thing that you do in your life. You might light a candle before you write. You might just find other ways to close kind of – I like to think about going to another room not necessarily physically. But a different space away from the rest of my life to write and come back again. If you give yourself the grace to do that, whether that's for five minutes, or five hours, or five days, you're sending yourself a really important message about the fact that getting to know who you are, and what matters to you, what words live inside you, is important to you. Because, for sure, it's important. That is what is going to guide you authentically through your life and help you stop being swayed by what everyone else thinks and help you make better decisions as much as anything. I mean, I think it's a real life tool. And then there's the creativity aspect of it. Just the beauty in some words landing on a page and feeling like a poem. That's just gorgeous. That's as beautiful as any flower you'll find in your garden. [00:17:14] PP: That is so true. Because as you're speaking, it occurs to me like I do. I feel like my smarter self shows up to write. And then I come back through and read it and go, "Oh, okay. That's a great thought." And that's what you're talking about without flow. Like we have an innate wisdom. We have things that our head is too busy to hear. And when you really release on a page and you let yourself write at that level, then things come out that, like I said, you're just too busy to hear. [00:17:43] BK: Yeah. And I think there's a lot of things that we struggle to articulate in words out loud to another human being if things are difficult. If we're trying to make a decision, or we're not happy with something in our life, or there's a relationship difficulty, or we're struggling because of grief or whatever it is that is difficult for us. I find, if I'm in my head, which is where I am often when I'm talking, although I'm learning to talk from somewhere else, I struggle with the words I want to say. And because, often, somebody – in conversation, just the way we often talk to each other, they then come back and then I have to respond to them. And blah-blah-blah. And I don't really get to what I want to say. But when it's just you and the page, the page doesn't say anything back to you. It just accepts whatever you put on to it. And I think, that way, you can work through a lot of your suffering or also your joy and capture it in a way that might get cut off in a conversation. Whether that's because of the other person or just because of your own brain going, "You haven't said that very well. Stop talking." [00:19:00] PP: Well, and I think it's important to point out. Like, to mothers, that might be the only conversation you have where nobody talks back to you that whole day. [00:19:09] BK: Absolutely. And any kind of life situation that feels lonely, I think words are amazing. And any life situation that feels overwhelming, because you've got too many people around all the time, it's also respite from that. It's just the easiest, cheapest, most wonderful tool I think that we have to use in so many ways. I think one thing that does happen though is people say I'm not a writer yet. I have to become a writer first. And to me, writing is literally just writing words on a page. It's taking what's in your head and heart and spilling it and just capturing your experience of being a human. Nobody before or since will have the exact experience as you. So don't be selfish. Share that with everybody. [inaudible 00:19:58]. [00:19:58] PP: Exactly. Yeah. Even if you feel like you don't need to share it with anyone, it changes you. And so, can we talk about that? How you've seen people change when they connect with themselves? Connect with their writing? What does that do for them? [00:20:13] BK: I think it changes the way that people see the world, and respond to the world and see their place in the world. I'm speaking very much from experience. But also, from what it's reported back to me from students. I think if you have been able to draw out the words that have been stuffed down, there's a liberation in that. Just as some people use breathwork for trauma release, for example, writing can be just as powerful as that. You're physically letting something out of your body. So you're not carrying it anymore. And people say that they're walking through the world much more lightly. And they're noticing things that they were totally closed off to before. They find themselves having conversations with new people because, suddenly, they realize that everybody is inspiration as well as everything else. And also, I think it can help you relate to other people better. Because you realize that just as there's things behind the mask for you, things below the surface, you start to notice that in other people too, which can lead to really amazing connection. [00:21:26] PP: Yeah. Throughout your book, you have some wonderful lessons. And I think it's important to note that it's not just about – it is about writing. But this is not a semantics of writing book. And one of my favorite chapters is the one on releasing. And I thought that was so amazing because you give us exercises. You give us ways to really go deep and release things through our writing. I thought that was really incredible. One of the statements that you have in there, and you have great little sayings in the margins, but you said, "Words heal. Apply liberally." [00:22:01] BK: Yeah. [00:22:02] PP: And tell me where that came from. Because I absolutely loved it. I'm like I need to make a sticker of that and put it on my wall. [00:22:10] BK: Oh, I love that idea. But like I always say to people, you are right that the world needs your medicine. But before you can start administering that medicine to anyone else, you have to administer it to yourself. And really, words are so healing. Of course, they can also be damaging if they're used in the wrong way. But in the sense that I'm talking about, which is just getting words out onto the page. And also, filling your life with words. Reading beautiful words from other people. Just the more you do it, the better you get. Like if you need medicine and you take it in the doses that you're supposed to take it in, you'll probably get better. It is just the same thing. [00:22:56] PP: But what I really want to know from you is tell us what it means to be a fearless writer. Because your book is called The Way of the Fearless Writer. And explain to us what a fearless writer is. [00:23:09] BK: For me, a fearless writer is just somebody who allows themselves without editing, or criticism, or any kind of barrier to spill what is in their heart and their head onto the page. That's where it all begins. That's how books get written. That's how hearts get healed. That's how things get figured out. It really is just that. The fearless part of it I think – well, I did a survey not long ago with more than a thousand writers in my community. And a hundred percent of them said that self-doubt got in the way of them writing what they want to write. I mean, I've never done a survey where 100% of people have said the same thing. And it was incredible. That's actually partly why I wanted to write the book. Because it's such a – we love to talk about the fear of writing as well. We love to talk about writer's block. We'd love to talk about how hard it is and all of this. And I really wanted to write a book which gave people tools that they could give themselves permission to not be afraid to write. Because sometimes that's all it is. [00:24:19] PP: That is the perfect way to wrap this up. Because you've given us a lot to think about. And your book has so many wonderful exercises. So many tips. We're going to tell our listeners how they can find it. We're going to let them download a free chapter of it. And I really appreciate you sitting down with us today and talking about this. [00:24:37] BK: Oh, it's such a joy. I'm so grateful for everything that writing has brought to my life. Just in the pages of my notebook at five o'clock in the morning with a candle and the early sunrise. And also, the doors that writing books have opened to new people and new opportunities. Things I never could have dreamed of. And it all begins with just writing words on a page, which anyone can do, right? [00:25:00] PP: That's great. Beth, thank you so much. [00:25:04] BK: Thank you so much. What a joy. [OUTRO] [00:25:10] PP: That was author, Beth Kempton, talking about how writing can help you connect with your feelings and your dreams. If you'd like to learn more about Beth and her books or her online writing courses, follow her on social media or download a free chapter of her latest book, The Way of the Fearless Writer, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. And until then, this is Paula Felps reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Fostering Pets for Greater Well-Being With Brittany Derrenbacher [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 421 of Live Happy Now. This month is filled with holidays that celebrate our pets, so that's what we're going to do. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and June happens to be National Adopt a Cat Month, National Microchip Month, and National Foster a Pet Month. We also have National Dog Dad Day on June 17th, National Dog Party Day on June 21st, and National Take Your Dog to Work Day on June 23rd. That is a lot of partying with your pet. Today, we want to focus on fostering and how it can help improve your well-being while changing the life of an animal forever. I'm bringing in Live Happy's resident pet expert, Brittany Derrenbacher, Founder of Luna Bell's Moonbows Special Needs Fostering in Louisville, Kentucky, to talk about how we can make the world a better place one foster pet at a time. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:56] PF: Brittany, welcome back to Live Happy Now. [0:01:00] BD: I'm so excited to be back. [0:01:01] PF: This is such a natural topic for us to discuss, because it's National Foster a Pet Month. You and I actually met, because of you foster animals, I needed an animal, we connected, it's been a great thing. During the pandemic, a lot of people were adopting and fostering pets. It was shelters were empty. There were waiting lists. Where are we at now? What's the current situation and the need for fostering? [0:01:29] BD: I think despite COVID and how that drastically changed things, there is always a need. There will always, always, always be a need until we have legislation that changes, or some type of very serious systemic change politically to change the environment that is resulting, right, in these animals most of the time from overbreeding. COVID was so interesting, because it's like, it was such a positive boom. It was such a positive shift. All of these people wanted animals. They wanted to give love and they were going to shelters. They were going to rescues. People were stepping up to foster, because they had so much time. I think, even though we don't really have enough adequate data, I think eventually, we will see how this has changed and affected. I think it's only natural to assume that everyone went back to work, everyone went back to chaotic schedules and life. Because of that, I think that there has been a shift, especially in rescue. There's not a single volunteer in shelter and in rescue right now that I don't know that it's just inundated. I mean, at capacity, full of animals. I mean, it's tough. I think we're seeing it all play out in real time right now. [0:02:50] PF: I wondered if it was just me, or my area that I live in, because I've seen so many posts lately about like, “Our shelter is full. We cannot take anymore. Please, if you can foster, if you can adopt.” I've seen this so much in the last few weeks. Is that a product of us pendulum swinging from having done the fostering, having adopted and now people are going back and saying like, “I'm not cut out for this”? [0:03:16] BD:  I think that is definitely a piece. I think, also, we're seeing the result of breeding picked up. We needed to make money. I also think there was a need for it. It picked up in all areas, right? We're just seeing a result of that. I just think that shelters literally all over the country, shelters that normally would have, or rescues that normally would have been more open for being the ones that would have been reached out to, to say like, “Hey, we're full. Can you help?” They're full. So, that I think is telling. [0:03:52] PF: Fostering, you have so much, of course, it gives a lot to the animal. It gives so much to the person who does that. We're going to get into that. First, tell us about your story and how you became involved in fostering, why you wanted to do that, because it really does take a special mindset and a special person to want to do it at the level that you do it. [0:04:10] BD: Yeah. This is a topic that is just so heart centered for me, because it really comes from my relationship with my soul dogs, Sunshine and Zoe. They just taught me so much about myself. They brought so much joy into my life. My relationship with them is what led me into fostering, because I just had a lot of love to give. I was in my early twenties. I loved doing volunteer work. I loved giving back. Since I was a child, I think I've always had a really unique bond with animals. I've always played into that advocacy role for animals. I felt very passionately about caring for them. I just started doing research on my end and looking into breed specific rescues, because Zoe and Sunshine were beautiful Boston Terriers. Like, perfect. Yeah, so I started doing research. That's how I found the rescue that brought us together. Boston Terrier rescue of East Tennessee, the Kentucky division. I started following them on Facebook. That is, I mean, that was all it took. I loved following the dog stories. I loved seeing them end up in forever homes. I put in an application. There's a process that I had to go through, some interviewing and having someone come to my home and make sure that it was going to be a safe and supportive environment for an animal. I mean before I knew it, I had my first foster dog. His name was Louis Pierre. It started it all. [0:05:40] PF: Fostering is such an interesting relationship. I used to tell people it was like dating, because it's like, I know I'm not going to have a permanent relationship with them. I am just getting them ready for their next perfect relationship. It can be hard for people to understand how you can take a dog and give it your all, give it your entire heart, all your love, and then send it to another family. Talk about the mindset. I know that you've coached people on this and helped them get through it, because it can be tough the first couple of times. What kind of mindset and what does it take to go in and have that pet foster parent attitude? [0:06:13] BD: Yeah, I'm glad that you asked this question, because I think mindset in this role and in this job is key. Intentionality is key. My advice is to go into this relationship and roll with curiosity with patients, an eagerness to learn and a genuine heart-centered approach for meeting the animal where they're at. What I mean by that is like, we have to be able to meet this animal at this very traumatic stage in their life and be willing to allow them to grow. They're not going to come to us perfect. That is rare. It does happen. It's like the unicorn and rescue work, where you just get this dog that it's like, okay, this dog's ready for its home. Nothing that we need to work on here. Many times when we get a dog into rescue and work to find a foster home for them, folks will ask, “Are they potty-trained? Do they like kids? Are they leash chained?” In a perfect world, those would be really easy questions, right? Every single animal has their own story. There's no way that any of us can predict, or know. Most of the time, they will not come with a story, right? They were found on the side of the road. I think their own past and experiences of how they ended up needing rescue, it's a variable, right? Oftentimes, we just don't know any of those things. All we know is that they need rescuing ASAP. I think the biggest thing that people don't see behind the scenes is the immediacy and the urgency that often happens in needing to get that animal into care quickly. We just don't have the ability to stop and see, is this dog potty trained? Is this dog going to be okay with your kid? We just have to be willing to meet them where they're at and give them time, give them the opportunity to be nurtured under care and safety of a loving foster home. Typically, this is the case. They will be nurtured. They will be loving, amazing animals. All of that will be super reciprocal, too. They nurture us and we also grow. If we're willing to lean into that and have patience with that, I think that's the mindset. [0:08:31] PF: When pets come in, and to your point, they often are not perfect. I think I've had one dog in 20 years that he came in, he was potty-trained, he was good to go. They have a lot of damage to them. Let's talk first about what the pet receives when we become foster parents. [0:08:49] BD: For the pet, I just think that the field of animal sheltering has come a long way. I definitely want to say that. I don't want it to come off like, this is in any way, shaming shelters. I just think that even in the best circumstances, animal shelters are a stressful place, right? It's a stressful place for animals, especially if they've been traumatized to come into an environment that's loud, uncertain, with a lot of moving pieces. That's what I mean by saying that it's stressful. Loud, overwhelming to the senses. A lot of shelters will work on those sensory things. That is part of volunteers’ jobs is to literally go around and give a treat, to make a sound, whether it be chimes, just sensory things to keep the dog and engaged. But the environment is still so overwhelming for animals and it causes them to shut down emotionally. It enacts that freeze response in the animal. Sometimes they display reactive behaviors due to the stress, that then labels them as the bad dog, right? [0:09:57] PF: Doesn't that keep them from getting adopted? [0:09:59] BD: Oh, yeah. They quite literally will be moved to a different part of that shelter in quarantine, away, and you can't go past that area, right? It completely denies them the ability of being seen. Foster homes uniquely allow that animal to be seen, right? To decompress from the stress of living in the shelter. They just work wonders for an animal's nervous system. It gives them the chance to live in a home, where they have the grace and the ease to safely express their personality. It's amazing to see that. It is amazing to see that animal come in that doesn't even play with a toy. That won't even come near you. It gives them such an opportunity and a chance to overcome fears and many times, recover and decompress from that trauma, right? [0:10:53] PF: Yeah, it does. One thing that I've had people – I wouldn't say it's their argument, but they say that, well, isn't it hard on the animal because now you've taken them out of an unknown situation, which we don't know before they dumped, where they lost, whatever it was, and you're giving them a home. Then you pull them out of that home again. I know you've gone through this process many, many times. Can you address that? [0:11:17] BD: That is probably one of the most frequent questions that I'm asked, is how do you just continue to pass the dog along? That's how it's perceived to others. [0:11:25] PF: Right. [0:11:26] BD: To me, it's like, this is the safe landing pad. I'm going to empower you. I'm going to give you all the skills that you need to succeed. I'm going to find you your perfect match. That family is out there that can meet every single one of those needs. When you move into that space, when the animal moves into that space, it's going to flourish. Animals are the most resilient creature. I think a lot of the times, we project our human emotions onto these animals. Really, they are a shining example of post-traumatic growth. [0:12:03] PF: Yeah, because I've seen dogs who have been through an amazing amount of trauma and abuse, and the way that they're able to love and heal and become kind and tender. Beans has always amazed me. That was one thing that attracted me to fostering was because I was dealing with some trauma in my own life that I was trying to work through and being able to work with animals during that time and see them come from abusive situations and become whole was really, they were teaching me. I was learning a lot from them about that. I think it's just been an incredible journey for me to watch how animals do heal and how they teach us to heal our hearts. [0:12:43] BD: Right. Because, essentially, we're giving a voice to the voiceless. You will see that a lot of people that are in some type of animal care work will have had trauma at some point in their life. Because I think this work just so deeply is connected to that need to help and to give a voice and to advocate. That comes from a place. [0:13:09] PF: Talk to me about the mental health benefits that we receive as foster parents. Because I've discovered so many benefits from it. It's just an incredible experience. [0:13:19] BD: Yeah. Shout out to one of our past episodes together, right? We love to talk about animals and mental health. If you haven't listened to the episode already, it's called celebrating our pets, and we really go super deep on all the benefits of that. Literally, animals improve everything, everything. They improve our mental health period. Mentally, physically, spiritually. Another thing that we've explored together is that they improve our lives cognitively. I think the unique thing that fostering does that can be really important for people that have busy lives, or don't really have the ability to have an animal in their home full-time is that it gives them companionship and joy with an animal without that lifelong commitment. It can be like, “Let me do this for a couple of weeks. Take a little break. A couple of weeks, a little break.” It's like being the cool aunt, or cool uncle, right? You get to send them home. You get to send them to their forever home. I think that's really cool. Most importantly, in regards to mental health, is that it gives us purpose. That's huge. [0:14:31] PF: That can be big for someone who say, is suffering from depression and has trouble. Doesn't have a reason to get off the couch. Doesn't have a reason to do something. If all you have to do, like let me get up and feed this cat. Let me take this dog outside for a walk. You start making these small things, because you have to. It starts snowballing into an upward mental health improvement. [0:14:56] BD: Yeah, you're needed. You're giving back. You're enacting change in someone's life. That's rewarding. That gives a person hope. That gives a person confidence. I think that animals do such a good job of relieving stress in our life and helping us cope easier with life changes. They more than anyone know that, too. They can teach us all of those things. They know the best ways to relieve stress. They know how to cope with changes and transition. This foster will know all of those things. [0:15:32] PF: They're living it. [0:15:34] BD: Absolutely. I just think that it's such a very special reciprocal relationship in regards to mental health and to those benefits. [0:15:45] PF: One thing that you brought up, you mentioned that if you don't have the time, you don't have to have this as a full-time foster. I think that's something that's really important to bring up, because there are several programs where you can do something for a day. When I was in Nashville, there was a guy who, his dog had died and he didn't really have the time to take on a new full-time dog. He would go on his lunch hour and he would walk dogs at the shelter. I've got friends who take their kids every weekend and they meet dogs. Part of their job is to learn how these dogs do with children. There are other things besides having this dog full-time. Can you talk about that, how you can find some of these opportunities? [0:16:23] BD: Yeah. Every single volunteer position matters. I cannot stress that enough. It is rescue work. Shelter work is a well-oiled machine that requires a lot of people in different pieces, right? It is not just one person fostering. It's not just one person adopting. There is so much happening behind the scenes that require sometimes very minimal effort that's still super rewarding. Like you said, you can go and stop at the shelter and walk the dog, or stop by the shelter and pet the cats. You can pick an animal up and you can take them out for the day and socialize them, right? You can give them that one-on-one attention. You can be the transport driver that picks the animal up from wherever it is, takes it to the vet, or takes it to the foster home. Every single piece matters. As a volunteer, you really are in a valuable part of this life-saving team. It's teamwork. [0:17:18] PF: You feel that reward, because it has that same – it doesn't really matter what role you're playing. You still have that same team mentality. It's like, we place this dog, we found her this home. Now we get to watch her flourish on social media. Yeah, it really does become this great team effort. Let's talk about children and what children can learn. The last dog that I adopted had been fostered by a woman who had two young children. I thought that's so great, because I saw how her children were with Rocco. I thought, man, that's really incredible for them to be raised in that environment of fostering and knowing like, “I'm going to care for this dog and then I'm going to give them to this forever home.” Tell me what that can do for children and how that's going to affect both the children and future animals down the road. [0:18:07] BD: Fostering is a very unique and empowering way to teach your children responsibility, right? Responsibility and pet ownership, but also just responsibility and things around them, compassion, helping others. I think that parents worry a lot about their kids getting too attached. But in my experience, the kids are the most resilient. Again, it's like these adult humans projecting a lot of their – a lot of their stuff on these animals and the kids and really, the kids are the understanding ones. They're so, so helpful and essential in these transitions. What's most helpful, again, is the intentionality you take before stepping into this role as a foster. Taking the time to really be diligent about talking to your kids about this important job that they have. You are going to be doing such an important job in this animal's life and preparing this animal to go to their forever home. How cool is that that this is your job? By letting them go to the families who will love them, we're doing the best thing for them. In turn, we're getting to help more animals. That's the message that you want to give the kids. Also, give it to yourself. Personal advice, give it to yourself. [0:19:22] PF: Listen to yourself while you’re talking. [0:19:24] BD: Yeah. I think that kids in general raised around animals have better self-esteem, better confidence, connections to love and compassion, empathy. The coolest thing is non-verbal communications. Animals uniquely teach us that. Kids are able to learn that. I think, something also worth mentioning here in regards to kids is most high schools across the US require service hours from their students. Animal care services count for that. I want to give a plug for that, because that's something that I really loved anytime that someone reached out to the rescue and talking about their kid needing service hours like, “Hey, can we foster a dog?” “Yes, you can.” [0:20:08] PF: Yes, as a matter of fact. [0:20:09] BD: It's a win-win. Yeah. [0:20:10] PF: Right. Oh, that's terrific. I hadn't even thought about that. I do love seeing when kids are involved in it and how that changes it. That's super, super cool. I know that you've seen so many different situations and you went next level with your special needs foster group. Tell us a little bit about that and how it started. [0:20:30] BD: My favorite story to share, our rescue is named Luna Bell's Moonbows Special Needs Rescue, and it's named after our first special needs dog. Her name was Luna Bell. She came to us at three-days-old and had a cleft palate. It taught me so much about myself. It taught my husband so much about himself. We really thrived in that environment and advocating for her and learning about her. When she ultimately – she had a lot of other complications that typically happens when you have an animal that has a congenital issue. We had her for little close to two months. We just wanted to honor her life. Once she passed, we just felt so strongly that we wanted to continue to give back in that way and learn as much as we could. I feel it universally opened this door, where people started reaching out to us. It really grew over time, because how we started to conceptualize what this work meant really started to broaden, where we were taking in elderly animals, needed some medical care, or needed to be permanent fosters. We took in animals that maybe had behavioral challenges due to trauma and we worked with them for long periods of time and found them very special foster homes. [0:21:54] PF: I wanted you to tell that story, because I really do want to bring this up. I've heard people talk about like, “I can't take in an elderly dog. I can't take in a special needs, because it's too heartbreaking.” You and I, one thing that we share is when I was doing fostering, I always went with the elderly dogs. There was just something to me about being able to care for a dog, knowing that they were going to spend the last days of their lives being loved, that I knew they would not die alone. That took the difficulty out of helping them pass somehow. Talk about that. When you foster special needs, or elderly pets, what keeps you fostering, despite the fact that you know you're going to lose them? [0:22:37] BD: It is such a gift to be able to give love in that way and create space for that animal, who often would have been overlooked, who often would have maybe been euthanized. Giving them the opportunity to find peace and love and wholeness in a home. To me, there is no greater gift. It has been the most rewarding years of my life to be able to give back in that way to these animals. I have gained so much from that. Like, confidence, empowerment, advocacy tools, empathy. It really drove me to become a therapist, right? It drove me to continue to broaden this idea of what our relationships are with people and with animals and to lean in to providing pet loss care and grief support for people. I just think that our relationships with these specific animals, especially uniquely abled animals and elderly animals who show up with so much gratitude to us. Just gratitude for the opportunity to just be. [0:23:53] PF: What's hard to explain to people, it's obvious what the pet is getting. It's obvious that the animals getting a lot of love. They're getting a lot of care. It might be more difficult from the outside to see what we as the carer and the care provider is receiving, but the gifts are incredible. It's such a huge award that you get from just being able to have the honor of being that person in that pet's life that that gives them that soft landing place and takes them through to the end of their life. If someone's interested in fostering, where do they start? [0:24:28] BD: Say, you want to foster breed specific. What's your favorite animal, right? Say, your favorite animal is a Boston Terrier and you live in Maine. Start googling those rescues and just start following them. Just be a curious observer and ask questions. Keep asking the questions. Keep being involved in the process. [0:24:51] PF: That's great. That's great. We're going to give them some information about your site and where they can find more about the work that you're doing and maybe some links on where they can start looking into how they can foster. As we let you go, knowing that this is National Foster, or Pet Month, what is the one thing that you want everybody to take away from this? [0:25:13] BD: Fostering saves lives, and it is the most reciprocal relationship that you will have. Just do it. [0:25:22] PF: Love it. Brittany, thank you so much. You always have so much to tell us about living our lives better with animals and I appreciate you doing that. [0:25:29] BD: Thank you so much. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:25:35] PF: That was Brittany Derrenbacher, talking about the many benefits of fostering a pet. There's such an enormous need for foster homes right now and we'd like to encourage you to consider fostering a pet from your local shelter, or rescue group. If you'd like to learn more about Brittany and Luna Bell's Moonbows Special Needs Fostering, or follow her on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Using Travel to Boost Well-Being With Dr. Andrew Stevenson [INTRODUCTION] [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 419 of Live Happy Now. With Memorial Day behind us, our thoughts are turning to summer vacations. We know they're fun. But do you know how good they are for us? I'm your host, Paula Felps, and this week, I'm talking with Andrew Stevenson, a social anthropologist, filmmaker, and senior lecturer in psychology at the Manchester Metropolitan University. Andrew’ s new book, The Psychology of Travel, looks at what travel can do for us, and he's here today to talk about how we can approach it differently to get the most out of it. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:38] PF: Andrew, thank you for joining me on Live Happy Now. [00:00:41] AS: Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here, and hopefully we can have a good conversation about travel and health. [00:00:48] PF: Yes. Oh, it's such a wonderful – first of all, it's timely, because audience doesn't know until right now, that on the day we're talking, it's the day your book is being published. It's a very great day for you. [00:01:02] AS: It's a good day. This is a project which really came out of the pandemic, I supposed, when we had the lockdown imposed upon us and there was no opportunity to travel. I was thinking about travel a lot over about a year or 18 months and decided to put some of my interests in psychology alongside my interest in travel. I was quite surprised how many different directions – [00:01:25] PF: I do want to dive into that answer just a little bit. What made you decide to look at it through the lens of psychology? Can you tell us a little bit about your background and why that was the natural path for you to go down? [00:01:35] AS: Yes. Well, I, in my day job, I'm the professor in psychology or lecturer in psychology at Manchester Metropolitan University, here in Manchester. My specialist subject in psychology is culture and space and place and I'm really interested in the way that places affect the way that we feel and think and act. Of course, that's never more relevant than when we're actually experiencing new places. Travel is – I mean, somebody said that travel is the best bits of our lives, isn't it? It's the bits that we tend to remember. Of course, not being able to do it for a couple of years, you brought this into sharp focus. I was missing it. I wanted to think about it and use some of the psychological concepts that I had worked with every day. [00:02:25] PF: Yes. You've delved into it so well, in your book. I was curious how you go about studying this. We have a lot of travel books. We have a lot of different ways to look at travel. How do you actually study the psychology of travel and how that affects us? [00:02:42] AS: That’s interesting. I think, it was combination of bringing together some of the areas that I personally have researched. Some things I’m interested in include things like, migration and movement, and the way that movement across borders affects our perceptions of people, that kind of thing. I’m also interested in social psychology and the way in which people behave differently in groups. Of course, when we travel, we're thrust into all sorts of groups, people we don't know, surrounded by people. As well as some of my own personal interests. I also was aware that quite a lot of people have written about things like fear of travel, wellbeing and travel, mindfulness, and travel memory, and those types of things. I decided, I also was aware that there isn't really a book about the psychology of travel, even though there are lots of academic interests and academic articles, which are quite inaccessible for most people. So, I thought, well, my job here is to just take some of the most interesting articles and topics that I've looked at travel from a psychological point of view, and put them into a coherent collection that we can all enjoy. I tend to write in a slightly more accessible way than some of the articles I've been reading. That's not a criticism. It's just the way that things are, I think. [00:04:04] PF: Yes. I think that is important to know, because when you hear about the psychology of travel, it sounds heavy. But it's really not. As you said, it's a very accessible read, and very engaging. [00:04:16] AS: I think, travel is something that we all enjoy doing. Psychology is really just about people and how they behave and think differently. Bring those two things together, you're bound to get some interesting things. [00:04:28] PF: Yes, and one of the things that you talk about, you say it's virtually impossible to travel alone. Can you explain that and then talk about how other people affect our travel experiences in the way that we see travel? [00:04:41] AS: Yes. It's something that dawned on me really, is people often say, I'm going traveling alone.” But of course, I defy anyone, really, to genuinely travel alone. Because whenever we move from one place to another, whether it's on foot or across the city or by air, we're surrounded by people, and we're surrounded by people, most of which we don't know. We may travel without our own family. But our decisions, even if it's down to things like which restaurant shall I go to? Which beach shall I go to? Whose are these footprints? We can even be influenced by people who aren't even there anymore. But the idea of a crowd will affect our destructive decisions. We may visit, for example, a monument or a gallery, because other people are doing it. We may be tempted to stay in that hotel because TripAdvisor says, “You've got lots of good reviews, and those people are affecting us.” If on the other hand, you'll be anti-social like me, you might be more likely to go to a place where it’s practically empty because you quite like to get away from the crowds. But these are both – whatever direction you're interested in, whether you want to do things that are conforming, or whether you want to be a rebel, you're doing it in relation to what other people have either done or not. [00:06:07] PF: Then, I know from my experience, you can make incredible friends and strike lasting friendships with people that you meet while traveling. I've got people that I met 20 years ago, and we've stayed in touch and it was one encounter. We haven't seen each other since then. But we have stayed in touch. How does that shape our lives too? We're getting all these experience with people from other cultures and other walks of life? [00:06:32] AS: Yes, it's fascinating. There are so many different ways to answer that question. I mean, first of all, there's the social aspect of traveling with somebody we already know, and having been on a journey with somebody who you may have known a bit before you went traveling together, that can really draw you together. Because what you're doing there is you're experiencing, not everyday life. You're experiencing a particularly intense part of your life, but the best bits of your life. You're traveling with somebody and two weeks with somebody who was a friend before or an acquaintance before, then you really become a lot more friendly with within those two weeks. You get to know about all their characteristics and so on. That can really propel a friendship forward into the future. There's that aspect. How it affects the friendships we already have with the acquaintances. But the other thing is as well, how does traveling to a different country, for example, affect your attitude towards the people who already live there. There's that whole thing about hosts and visitors, isn’t it? It's a bit – it could go either way, and a lot of researchers found that when you interact with cultures who you may not have met before, the most meaningful way of doing that, and the way that produces the best relationships is the way you interact with people on an equal footing, that can often mean meeting people socially. So, if you go to Mexico, for example, and you meet people who are from Mexico, and you meet them as colleagues, or you meet them as equals, then your attitudes towards that entire group of people is likely to be a lot more positive than if you only ever meet people who are for example, serving you coffee, or cleaning up after you. To me, so there's that status issue. But there's also, there's no doubt. But just being around people from different cultural groups, means that you've got much more firsthand experience of people that you may otherwise only read about in the press. We all know that that can lead to some kind of prejudice. [00:08:48] PF: It also, for myself, it has created such a deep appreciation for the life that I lead, and where I have so much gratitude. We'd spent some time in Canada up with the indigenous people a by the polar bears. We were there to see polar bears, and it's an indigenous culture up there, and seeing how they live and how challenging their lives are, what they have to go through to get food, to get water, things like that. It just instilled in me such an incredible appreciation for the simple things of being able to walk to a tap and turn it on and get a glass of water. [00:09:23] AS: In the whole – I identify without a lot because the whole idea of appreciating cultural diversity and realizing that the way that we live in our bubbles in our day to day existence is just one way of living, isn't it? In a way, the ideal of travel is to highlight the commonalities that we have with other people that we may not have met, before but also to appreciate distinct challenges that they may also face. I do a research project in Central America and we have collaborators in Guatemala City and we do a lot of work with young people there. One of the things that we're looking at is the concept of resilience and how people overcome challenges that they face in their everyday lives. It's never anything other than surprised and impressed by the way that people cope with things that often we don't cope that well here. The traffic in Guatemala City, is to me who live in Manchester, in England is incredible. But I would say the level of stress that the traffic causes is much lower. People just accept it as part of the everyday life. Here in Manchester, where I live, often the level of what we call road rage is quite a lot higher. The differences, the way that we cope with – the way that people cope with everyday challenges, we can understand that a lot better through travel, I think, and learning about different cultural groups. [00:10:56] PF: That is so true. Obviously, not everybody loves to travel. Some people, you mentioned it, they have fear of travel. There's travel anxiety. Where does that come from? How does leaving our comfort zone help us manage that? [00:11:10] AS: Yes, that's interesting. I mean, we talk about travel anxiety. Psychologists talked about travel fever, travel, fear, travel, anxiety, worry about travel. Think about that, they're all challenges, but some of those challenges are actually quite useful. If we take something like travel worry, it's actually quite a good idea to be slightly worried about traveling because that can heighten your defenses, and it can help plan the journey a little bit more thoroughly. It's not a bad thing to be a little bit concerned and worried so that I can help you plan. The challenge that's a bit more difficult to explain is what you might call travel phobia, where sometimes people have a – they might have an irrational fear of something like flying. In fact, statistics suggest that the chances of coming to harm in an airplane are a lot less than they would be just crossing the road or riding on a bus, for example. But some psychologists have pointed out that when you take a flight to another country, you're not just participating and potentially worrying for transport. You're actually leaving all your familiar objects and people and land. And it's that almost that fear of losing contact with things that you're attached to. So, it's almost like an attachment anxiety. Sometimes that can be one of the reasons for something like fear of flying, because the statistics don't bear out the amount of irrational fear that sometimes people have with flying. But the other thing, of course, is about anxiety and travel, is that there's this concept that we call eco anxiety. Now, I know that many people think about global warming, and the climate crisis a lot. During the pandemic, one of the perhaps, one good thing that came out of that is that – I don't know what it was like where you were living, but where we were living, we were able to take an hour of exercise every day, and we were able to go for our walks in the local community. Through that, many of us discovered green spaces and little treasure troves of green spaces that we didn't know about before. Those types of things could really help us with our mental health a little bit. It also helps us to understand that we can experience some very precious travel moments without flying across the globe. I think people are – well, figures suggest that eco anxiety is this genuine, understandable anxiety about the state of the planet. People are starting to modify their travel a little bit more now and maybe take fewer long-haul flights. Or maybe when you do take a long flight, stay in the place you're going for a little bit longer, rather than making four or five shorter journeys. I don't know about you. But the pandemic opened my eyes a little bit to the beauties in my own country. [00:14:29] PF: Absolutely. [00:14:31] AS: I'm not going to give up flying, but I'm maybe starting to think a little bit more that there were some great things to see that are on my doorstep as well. [00:14:39] PF: Yes. We had that shift in mindset of where before we take another big international trip, let's really start looking around the US because there's amazing things here that we haven't discovered yet and we've constantly said, “Oh, we want to go there, we want to go to Big Ben. We want to check out Red Rocks.” We want to do these things and we haven't so it's like, when we start getting that travel it, instead of saying, “Hey, let's jump on a plane and hop across a pond.” Let's discover what's in our backyard, because it's a big backyard. [00:15:10] AS: That's true. Quite often, quite often that the most wow moments or the great travel moments often called through some of the more mundane things that we see in our everyday lives and mindful to everyday experiences. Mindfulness is something we are encouraged to practice in our everyday lives, isn't it? The idea is that you try to appreciate the world in a constant childlike state of wonder and you can enjoy the simplest pleasures like a cup of coffee, or a walk, or stroking a stray cat and those types of things can be appreciated, not necessarily only on the other side of the world. It's about recognizing that travel, enjoyment, and pleasure, aren't exclusively on a set list of destinations that we’re told to do. [00:16:07] PF: Right. Yes, I think it can probably open your eyes to your everyday world a little bit more, and the things that, as you're talking, just the things that you can appreciate that are around you every day. [00:16:19] AS: Yes. That's right. I mean, one of the key things about mindfulness is being able to appreciate your surroundings but without making too quick of judgment about whether it's good or bad. Sometimes when we suspend judgment, we give ourselves the time to enjoy whatever it is we're doing a little bit more with taking a breath or savoring the moment a little bit. In the era of five-star reviews, and TripAdvisor, there's often a quickness to try to say yes, this is five stars, this is two stars. It might be a better idea just to be with that travel moment a little bit more, and not be in such a quick rush to keep it a certain number of stars. Because sometimes we don't realize how satisfying an experience is until we've spent a little bit more time doing it. [00:17:11] PF: Another thing that I've noticed with myself, you mentioned savoring, and I've noticed that oftentimes, when I get home, I enjoy that trip experience more than I did in the moment. I wanted to know what that's about, because there's been so many times like, especially on a long trip, by the end of it, you're like, “Okay, this is great, but I'm ready to go home.” When you do get home and you really have time to sit with it, I don't know, I just feel like I appreciate it so much more after the fact even than I do when it's happening. [00:17:41] AS: Yes, that's interesting. It relates to the idea of wellbeing and travel. I suppose one of the reasons we're talking today is just to think about whether travel makes us happy or not and it's something I've discussed in the book is the relationship between happiness and travel. Psychologists have come up with this idea of different types of happiness. One of them sometimes known as hedonistic enjoyment, hedonistic travel, which is all about pure, physical joy in the moment. We often get this experience through, I don't know, skiing down the mountain, or windsurfing, or something like that. Then the other type of enjoyment is sometimes are viewed eudaimonic happiness or wellbeing. That's the kind of wellbeing that accrues through something like developing a skill, learning a language, understanding a culture, and it's a little bit more of a marathon rather than a sprint of your life. I think that what you're referring to there is the way that the skill, let's just say, of learning a language when you visit a place or learning a little bit about a local artist that can visit Mexico City and learn about Frida Kahlo, a fascinating historical figure. Those types of eudaimonic enjoyment, are often the ones which research suggests stay with you longer after the visit. Whereas if you visit a place and you purely want to live in, maybe just live in the fast lane and purely want to have hedonistic enjoyment, that's great while it's happening. But there may be a bit of a holiday hangover when you get back and the enjoyment may not be such so long lasting and memorable. To be honest, I think, the secret really to a good visit is to try to do a little bit of both of those, so that you can have, let's just say there's a cliché, travel can broaden the mind. That would be the longer lasting enjoyment, but you might want to party a little bit as well, but I think it's being able to combine those. [00:19:54] PF: I was having a conversation with a friend a few days ago and she was talking about how her in laws always go back to the same place. They do not want to travel to other places. They find things that they like, and then they just go to that over and over. She, of course, wants to try something new every time. Does that affect us differently? Or is it just a personality type? What makes us tick that way? [00:20:18] AS: Well, that is interesting, and again, you're going to have those people who are quite habitual, and who get a lot of enjoyment through developing routines. I think there are other people who struggle with sameness, and struggle with repetition. I think, there are good and bad aspects to both of those in terms of the experience of travel, because I think there's a lot of value personally in immersing yourself a little bit in the place, and trying to find a little bit about how it ticks. If I visit a city, for example, let's just take, I don't know, Los Angeles, or Mexico City or something. If I'm there for a week or so, there's an awful lot going on there a place like that and I would be reluctant to spend a day there and then jet off to New York to see what that's like for a day, and they jet off to Washington to see what that's like for a day. Because the richness of experience that is available in any city or town or county or whatever it is or region is really inexhaustible, I think. So, it's not so much about having routines. It's about having the commitment to explore in a little bit more depth and have that mindful approach. I mean, I think the reason for this, we always talk about bucket lists, don't we? People talk about a list of things I'd like to do before we go away. I often think – or while we're away, as you say. I often think that the itineraries that we make for ourselves or develop for ourselves when we travel, sometimes there are things that are coming from our own interests. But sometimes we follow an itinerary, which is almost been presented to us, and I think we often fall victim to this travel guide. We become slaves to the travel guide. [00:22:22] PF: Absolutely, yes. [00:22:23] AS: We can often have the experience of taking the same photograph that everybody else is taking, and that kind of thing. I think there are people who are quite happy to just take the commodified view of travel and take the photograph. There might be a queue of people taking the same photograph. Well, the people are more likely to try to be a bit more immersive and find out a bit more about what's going on in an everyday sense about a place that they visit. [00:22:52] PF: Yes. We're running this as summer is kicking off, and people are starting to think about travel. Well, it is based on the book, everything that you’re studying, what's your recommendation for travelers to keep in mind this season? [00:23:07] AS: Well, I think, first of all, we need to think about who you're going to travel with, and think about what social situation you want to put yourself in. But I think my number one piece of thing to think about, really, is when you travel, are you thinking of yourself as a traveler, or as a tourist? I've got a nice little quote here from the novelist Paul Bowles, who wrote The Sheltering Sky. It’s all about difference between travel and tourism. And he says, “The difference between a traveler and a tourist is, whereas the tourists generally always back home at the end of a few weeks or months, the traveler belongs no more to one place than the other, moves slowly over a period of years from one part of the earth to another.” For me, the traveler is somebody who's following their own dream about discovering something about themselves, trying to be mindful, and developing their own relationship with cultural diversity and finding something interesting about themselves. The tourists may be experiencing hedonistic travel. Maybe they're having the same holiday that everybody else is having as well. I think you've got to decide which of those you want to be really. It's not that one's better than the other, but they aren't quite distinct. [00:24:27] PF: That is so interesting. Andrew, you've given us so much to think about. I love this conversation. We're going to tell people how to discover your book because it's such an important and accessible read and thank you for writing. [00:24:38] AS: But also, to say, it’s not a big book, either. [00:24:40] PF: I know. It goes quick. It's a very slim volume. You can read it on a plane. [00:24:46] AS: Exactly. [00:24:47] PF: Andrew, thank you again. I appreciate your time today. [00:24:50] AS: Thanks for having me on Paula. Have a great summer. [00:24:53] PF: You too. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:24:58] PF: That was Andrew Stephenson talking about why travel is so good for us. If you'd like to learn more about Andrew, follow him on social media or check out his new book. Just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, remember there's still time to swing by the Live Happy Store and take advantage of our spring special where you can get 25% off storewide just by entering the code Spring 25. That is all we have time for today. We will meet you back here again next week for an all new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Overcoming Procrastination to Boost Well-being With Sherri Fisher [INTRODUCTION] [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 418 of Live Happy Now. If you're a procrastinator, or your life is affected by someone else who is, then this week's episode is for you. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm talking with Sherri Fisher, director of the coaching practice, Learn & Flourish, and a bestselling author, speaker, and workshop facilitator. She's here today to talk about why we procrastinate, how it affects our wellbeing, and what we can do about it. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:32] PF: Sherri, thank you so much for coming on Live Happy Now. [00:00:36] SF: I'm excited to be here. It's very nice to meet you. [00:00:39] PF: This is a conversation I wanted to have for a few months now because I get your newsletter, which we will tell people how to sign up for it, because it's a fantastic newsletter. You did a great series on procrastination. So, it's ironic that it took me so long to get you on the show after you did procrastination. But I wanted to find out, first of all, just set a baseline, how big a problem is procrastination in the world today? [00:01:05] SF: I don't have an exact number for you. But most people procrastinate about something sometimes, and people who say that they procrastinate chronically. College students, for example, 90% of them, that's the number I have for you. They say that they procrastinate chronically, and when it comes to assignments. But adults in general will make wish lists of things that they're going to do, that they just don't ever get to checking off the little boxes for. If you look at the things that those people avoid doing, it's a lot of consistent things that they don't do. Procrastination is a big problem. It costs businesses, for example, lots of money, because productivity is reduced for people. But it also eats away at our wellbeing. When you don't keep up with things, those things pile up, people feel badly about those things, and you're also not learning how to overcome them in ways that help you build habits, and to learn even small amounts of self-regulation, and to manage yourself emotionally. Underneath it all, that's really what's driving procrastination is how you feel about things. [00:02:08] PF: I thought it was interesting because I've looked at procrastination through a time management lens and things like that. I honestly had never thought about how it affects our wellbeing. You of course having your Master's in Applied Positive Psychology and coming at everything through that lens, are looking at it, and what is the psychology that drives procrastination and how bad? You said it affects our wellbeing, how badly does it affect us? [00:02:37] SF: Sometimes there are people who procrastinate, and they've kind of gotten into whatever their procrastination rhythm is. It's like cramming for a test when you're in school, and you get to the very close to the last minute, and then you stay up all night. You think, “Oh, I got it done.” That sense of accomplishment can make you feel like you're very successful. But it might have cost you sleep. It might have meant that you ate junky food. It might have meant that you didn't get to go to a social event that you really wanted to go to. It might have meant that you didn't do something with your family that you would have done if you'd planned better. What happens is it's not like a one to one correspondence. It's the spillover effect that procrastination has on all the other things that you didn't do, that you perhaps could have done when you still had choices that you could make. [00:03:26] PF: Now, will the naysayer reply that, “Well, look at all the fun stuff I got to do before then, when I wasn't doing what I was supposed to be doing.” [00:03:37] SF: Well guess what, people don't feel good about those things, really. In the moment, most people who are procrastinating are not doing happy things that they want. They are basically spinning around in place, not doing any of the things that they might. I guess, we call them time wasters. They're not being productive in other ways, either. There are people who avoid, they go out to a party or something. Those are not the chronic procrastinators, who we're really talking about. Those are people who are, socially, they're in a place their lives where they – FOMO. They don't want to miss out on something. But generally speaking, a chronic procrastinator is not having that as their motivation. They're not doing things because they find the thing distasteful in some way. Not the thing itself, maybe, because maybe it makes them feel badly about themselves. “I'm not good at this. It reminds me that I didn't go to graduate school for such and such. Therefore, I'm not ever going to be the person who my family wants me to be.” It can be a lot of things. When I coach somebody, I have to help them to peel away enough of the layers of things that might be motivating them to get them to recognize that they are emotionally stuck sometimes. It’s not that they don't know how to manage their time. [00:04:51] PF: That’s interesting. Yes, because I used to work with a time management client and he viewed procrastination purely as a time management issue. But you're saying it's more than that. [00:05:01] SF: Oh, absolutely, it's more than that. One of the first things I talk about is what I call the probably problem. Every person who I work with who procrastinates tells me, they will probably do something, 100% of the time. If I talk to them, if they can put it on a planner, they can have notifications in 15 different places, it doesn't matter how well they plan their time. It matters how aware they are of the underlying things that are making them feel like they don't want to do something. That's important. It's also important, what level of commitment they have. They're saying they'll probably do something. It's like a cue that says, probably, but maybe not. The other thing is that if you're not making a commitment to follow through, then we need to work on that part. Maybe we need to build in implementation intentions, for example. Maybe we need to figure out what are the things that you're avoiding, and what would be solutions that if you're faced with whatever the barrier thought is, if this comes up, then I will do such and such, whatever that other thing is might be. If I need to put this in my calendar, and I need to start it on time, and the barrier thought is like, “Oh, I do this.” Then, I will – I have people, they text me. I'm having a moment, and then I can talk them through things. But usually, it doesn't take very long before they don't want to tell me that they're having a moment and they just do it. The next time we meet, they say, “I didn't want to do it, but I didn't want to bug you.” A lot of times, there are different ways of putting if then in place. But the idea is that you're teaching yourself to self-regulate. You're recognizing that a barrier exists. If that barrier shows up, then you're going to do a particular thing and it automatizes the things that keep you from pushing past probably, otherwise. Push past probably. [00:06:59] PF: Let's talk for a minute about what kind of problems procrastination can create, because you see a lot of different effects that it has. Can we talk first about work, and then I want to talk about how it affects us at home. [00:07:12] SF: Okay. At work, the worst-case scenario would be that you don't get your work done, and you are let go. But it also creates for the person who is the chronic procrastinator social difficulty. So much of work requires being on a team. You are part of a greater than yourself amount of work. If you don't show up on time, somebody else might have to pick up the slack for you. Maybe a project can't go out at all on time, and the entire team gets dinged for that. That would be the biggest thing is the social impact, and the person who is a procrastinator, that chronic procrastinator doesn't have the trust of their colleagues anymore if this happens over and over again. That makes the person who is the procrastinator feel disconnected from their work, and sometimes someone will get referred to me, they blame everybody else for their lack of something. Those people don't have enough patience. They're unrealistic. They don't know how hard my life is or things like that. They're not able to empathize with what it's like to be the person who is getting the job done. Because the chronic procrastinator may have been doing this forever, until they ended up in a situation where there was no longer enough structure to help them to be able to get things done. They're on their own, then they don't have all of their good if then is in place. They may struggle a lot. That's the biggest impact at work. [00:08:32] PF: Wow. Then, when they take those habits home, what kind of effects does it have at home, when we just keep putting things off? [00:08:42] SF: Well, if you are in a couple's relationship, the things that you put off at work might make you feel like you're exhausted, maybe you've been trying to get things done, whatever that may mean, but not being successful, and you get home and you're exhausted and you have no more executive function skills left. The first three are, stop what you're doing now, switch to the thing you're supposed to be doing and start doing it. But those are so difficult. Say that you're a person, like a lot of people who I will see have learning attention or executive function challenges across the board. But when there's the right kind of structure in place, or the right self-knowledge plus structure, a lot of the difficulties are really dealt with very well. But when you don't have those things, you struggle. Home is a place that doesn't have much structure unless you can impose it yourself. If you live with someone who is really good at putting structure in place, and you as the person who needs that structure, recognize that about yourself. That's great. Very helpful. But what if you're the person who says, “I don't want that. I don't want that. But if you push back a lot, I don't need that.” That's when things start to get difficult because the person who would benefit from the help and the person who is naturally more structured start to grow apart. They don't understand what the other person needs anymore. It’s difficult to have empathy if you think the other person is just being a pain. [00:10:07] PF: Yes, at work, at least there are oftentimes systems in place to correct that behavior, give warnings, things like that. That doesn't necessarily happen at home. Basically, it's a fight, and then there isn't a resolution. How do you deal with that in a home setting? [00:10:23] SF: Well, there are a bunch of different things that happen in a home setting. Sometimes people end up going to couples counseling, or they end up getting divorced, because if they're married, they just can't figure it out. But there are things to do before you ever get there that have to do with understanding what other people's tolerance for certain things is. For instance, the messy tolerance. For a chronic procrastinator, they're also often not very well organized in lots of other ways. So, recognizing that you, the messy person, would actually benefit from having a structure in place. Putting like things together. Having labeled buckets. Yes, we did that in first and second and third grade and it was great, because you knew where to put things away, and not looking at that and say, “Well, I'm not a baby.” A lot of the defensiveness that the procrastinator has, is a really good place to start. If you're the procrastinator, you want to recognize when you're being defensive. And if you're the person who's not the procrastinator, to not say things that are going to make the person who is frustrating you so much, not going to make him want to push back. I just told you what not to do. What to do, is to recognize when things are going well. For instance, if you have something that's labeled, and the person puts it in the right place, you say, “Thanks for putting that away.” Very little things. Just notice what’s – [00:11:39] PF: I like that. [00:11:41] SF: If you're the organized person, go ahead and be organized. Then, you're going to bring the person along with you a little bit at a time. Another thing you can do, this is my favorite thing to do, no matter what it is, is to set a timer. You figure out what your optimal time is. I just pick 10 minutes, because it's a good amount and it's not so long that most people can't pay attention for that long. But even with that, I work with a high school student who never gets their work done, I might even set the timer for five minutes. Because you want the person to have the idea that they're not going to have to do the heinous thing forever. They only have to do the heinous thing for a short amount of time. But you also want them to have the lived experience of success. When they do it, you don't want to look and say, “That's all you got done?” You want to say, “That was great. Next time, 10 minutes.” You do 10 minutes for a while until you can say to the other person, “Let's do 15 minutes.” Or ask them, “How long should I set the timer for?” I usually just ask them, “How many minutes do you want?” This week I had someone say, “I want 13 minutes. I like lucky 13. Let’s do this.” [00:12:42] PF: That's specific. That's so great, because that seems, it would work with couples, it would work in parent-child relationships. It seems like there's so many ways that that can be leveraged to make that work without conflict. [00:12:57] SF: Right. Because then you're not asking someone to budget a huge amount of time that they then need to organize. The thing with time management is if you say someone is going to have to work for two hours when they get home from work, that person is going to not get much done then and they'll be angry. So, they'll have to be self-regulating their anger and maybe their tiredness, and maybe they're hungry. There could be a lot of other things that are competing for attention at that point. That's why time management doesn't work so well. But if you divide time into emotionally, micro manageable parts, then you're heading in the right direction. [00:13:34] PF: When do we know that it's a time management problem and we're overburdened versus we're just procrastinating? It's easy to say, “Well, I just have too much to do.” How do we define and determine which it really is? [00:13:48] SF: You know what’s interesting, I have a big to-do list right now sitting next to me here. It has, oh, I don't know, 15 things on it. This morning, my plan yesterday, because I took that to-do list, I stuck it right on top of the lid of my computer. My plan today was to just bang out all those things. Then, I had several interruptions that were work related interruptions and I did not get to that list. The list is still sitting here. These are things that must get done. Eventually, they will get done. But you can have the best lead time management plans, and then something will interrupt. What do you do when that happens? Is, I think, a question that people also ask. You can also use your timer for that. I can just say I will do as many things as possible that I can get done in the next 10 minutes and you just bang through them for 10 minutes. Then, I put the list aside and I'll get back to more things later when I have 10 minutes free. Because usually you will have little bursts of time, those bursts of time effective for you is much more valuable than trying to figure out how to become more efficient. [00:14:50] PF: I like that, because a lot of times, I think, when we just have a burst of time, it's like, “I've got 10 minutes. I can't really do anything.” So, we hit social media or we scroll through our phone. We waste the time almost intentionally, giving ourselves the excuse that I don't really have enough time to get things done. [00:15:08] SF: Right. But if you have 10 minutes and a list, you just get started. Another good approach is to leave the thing that is on your computer screen. The last thing before you put the lid down, to have that be the thing that is your priority, so you don't have to go looking for what to do. That's the way to go down the procrastination rabbit hole really fast. [00:15:28] PF: Oh, yes. I like that. That’s a great tip. [00:15:31] SF: Because it's right there in front of you. But the other thing, even better than that is to, especially if you're in a document where you can make comments. Go ahead and write for yourself what you're going to start with. On mine, I will write down “Start here”, and then I wrote myself what I'm going to do. Or it's just highlighted, and it says, “Start here”. If I have an idea, before I decide I'm done for the day, I might write that idea down. I'll comment on a document. I write among other things that I do besides work with people. If I lose an idea, that's not a good thing. I have loads of them. I never run out of ideas. But sometimes you have a really great one. If I plan ahead, my implementation intention is, if I have an idea, then I will record it. Finding where to record your ideas, where to record your items for your to-do list, and having it be automatized for you, so you automatically do the same thing, you're much less likely to get off track, and getting off track is the way you procrastinate. [00:16:29] PF: Is procrastination an innate behavior? Or is it something we learn along the way? Where does it even come from? [00:16:36] SF: Well, I think that I'm going to say yes and yes to that kind of a question. Is it innate? I had two kids, they were very different in some ways, and not so different from each other in other ways. Sometimes you have kids and you look at them, and you think, “Oh, how could two such different people ever have come into the world?” Plus, I've worked with thousands and thousands of people. Do I think that they came into the world as procrastinators? I'm going to say people come in to the world with varying degrees of executive function skill, and that you probably have, I don't know, a tendency to be less self-regulated or more self-regulated, and that you can learn to be more self-regulated. Another thing is, do people have a process that works for them? Lots of times they haven't learned to process without that process. They just get lost. Is that because they are innately procrastinators? Maybe not. Maybe they just didn't get taught a way to do things in a more systematic way. Another one is that the procrastination problem across all contexts, and sometimes it's not. Sometimes it only happens in one place. So, we have to look at that. Do they do everything except for like the last step of taking action? In which case we got a little, like, get them just over the edge? In which case, they probably are chronic procrastinators and that's their stuck point is right there. Those are kind of my four things. I call it the SPCA, it’s what I just told you about. Structure, process, context, actions. [00:18:08] PF: That's great. You also are very big on self-care. I think what's so interesting for me is you different from a traditional business coach, because you have that positive psychology angle coming into it. You implement so many techniques and practices that you're not going to find in a traditional business structure. Talk about self-care, and how you see that being used as part of overcoming procrastination. [00:18:34] SF: Well, I have something I call mindfulness interval training. People will say, “Do I have to know how to meditate do that?” Because some people are just like, “I can't do it. I can't sit still”. No, no, it's not about that. Mindfulness interval training is if you have interval training you're doing for exercise, you're going to take something and you're going to do it for a very short amount of time, intensively. When I say a short amount of time, I'm talking about a minute, right? When you don't want to do something, and you're like, “No, I don't want to”, and you calm yourself down. That's the first step. In a minute, there are ways to do this, so I have a list of these that you can download on my website. But you might rub your palms together, and then just put them over your eyes and just slowly inhale and exhale, inhale through your nose, exhale through your mouth. Another way of doing that is to do like five-finger breathing. You close your eyes, if you're comfortable doing that, you use one finger, and you trace on the other hand, opposite hand. It doesn't matter which hand you use as your tracing finger. Use your index finger and trace up your thumb as you inhale through your nose and then exhale through your mouth going down. Then, you would do the same thing up the next finger and you're going to inhale, tracing up your index finger, inhale through your nose, exhale through your mouth. You can do that for all five fingers. When you get done. That won't even take a minute and you will be so much calmer just from that tiny little thing that you do. That's an interval. It's something that mindful. Then, if you still want more, you can do something that’s energizing. You can take an energy break. You could run in place for a minute. Or you could do arms over the head exercise for a minute, and then just stop. Inhale through your nose, exhale through your mouth. You can do mindful eating, some small thing, no raisins, cranberries, something very small, and just mindfully chew. You can take tiny sips of cool water, no ice. Just tiny sips of cool water for a minute. Take a whole minute to drink a glass of water. Tiny little sips. You can also do some other type of mindful breathing at the end. But you could spend five minutes and you will be the most relaxed you've ever been before starting something and you'll be in a much better headspace when you do that. [00:20:51] PF: You have a lot to teach us. You have so many things that we can learn about your techniques for taking care of ourselves, learn how to build our habits better. I'm going to tell the listeners how they can find your website, sign up for your newsletter, learn more about what you're doing. But what is the one thing that you really hope everybody who's listened to our conversation today takes away from it? [00:21:12] SF: If you don't want to be a procrastinator, you don't need to be a procrastinator. There are very pleasant, doable things to help you get things done that you would like to get done, and the things that you need to get done. [00:21:25] PF: Sherri, it's been a pleasure having you on the show. I appreciate you taking time with me today. [00:21:28] SF: It was great and fun. I love talking about things that I love to do and you ask the best questions. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:21:37] PF: That was Sherri Fisher talking about procrastination. If you'd like to learn more about Sherri, follow her on social media, sign up for her newsletter or download some of her free resources. Just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure and stop by the Live Happy Store to take advantage of our spring special where you can get 25% off everything in the store, just by entering the code Spring 25. I recommend you check out our cheerful, choose happy tote bag which is the perfect springtime accessory. That is all we have time for today. Well meet you back here again next week for an all new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]