Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Practicing Outrageous Kindness with Kristina Joy Carlson
[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 484 of Live Happy Now. There are times when kindness seems in short supply, but this week’s guest is determined to help the world master outrageous kindness. I’m your host, Paula Felps. And today, I’m joined by Kristina Joy Carlson, Founder of the Kind Method and Managing Director of Global Philanthropy at Carter Global. Kristina has turned her personal practice of outrageous kindness into an inspirational campaign that can be practiced by individuals and corporations alike. She’s here to talk about what it means to practice outrageous kindness and how it can change the world we live in. Let’s have a listen.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:00:46] PF: Kristina, welcome to Live Happy Now.
[0:00:48] KJC: Thank you. It’s a delight to be here, Paula. Thank you for having me on the show.
[0:00:52] PF: Well, you have a terrific initiative that you’re doing. It’s so in-line with the Live Happy mindset. As soon as I received her first email about it, I was like, “Oh, my gosh. We have to get her on the show to talk about this.” It revolves around the idea of outrageous kindness. I want you to start by telling us if you would, what you mean by outrageous kindness and then tell us what it looks like in action.
[0:01:18] KJC: Sure, absolutely. Outrageous kindness is really rooted in the recognition that we all have power to make positive change and achieve outrageous outcomes, no matter what our circumstances are. It starts from that place believing in that about ourselves, but then, also, believing about that as in others. It’s rooted in that thought. It’s rooted in a commitment to making a better purpose for every moment. I can get on a soapbox about that point, just how many times people would much rather turn to social media and rant about a circumstance, right? Instead of thinking about, okay, how can I flip this around? How can I make this better?
Often, we think of kindness as this great act, this great moment where maybe we rescued a dog from the side of the road, or ran into a burning building. But really, it’s just in that unique time where we say, “You know what? I’m going to find a better purpose for this moment.” It’s really focused on acknowledging and unleashing the good in others and being open to new ideas, new perspectives and data and listening to people, especially those who don’t agree with you.
That’s harder and harder right in this world today with the algorithms that are just feeding us more and more content that already goes along with the content we’re looking at. It’s human nature to want to be around people who act like us, look like us, think the way – it’s more comfortable. Outrageous kindness says, look, we’ve got to get over that. We’ve got to move on and really acknowledge that everybody has something good to contribute.
[0:03:09] PF: This was such a perfect time to talk to you, because as you know, we’re in the middle of a election cycle, we’re in the middle of doing a lot of topics on election stress and how we can do this. The idea of finding that good in others and listening to, or accepting someone who thinks and feels, believes differently is that’s a really important topic for us right now.
[0:03:32] KJC: Absolutely. You know, about a year ago, attended the International Fundraising Conference in Amsterdam, and Erica Chenoweth with the Kennedy School spoke and their book on revolutions is so powerful to read as it relates to, how do you create positive change? How do you really create impact? One of the premises of their research, one of their findings is that you have to listen to people who oppose your ideas if you’re really going to make lasting change. You have to form partnerships. You have to form alliances with people, because if you’re just going to rely on the people who already agree with you, it’s never going to be enough. You’ve got to find those people who maybe are in the middle ground, or maybe don’t quite agree with you, but at least see the value in what you’re trying to accomplish, right, and can help you make that do that.
I think, what an important message for us in this political climate where we’re just looking for ways to separate ourselves, instead of looking at really, where can we start working together to really affect some positive impact?
[0:04:46] PF: What would be an example of outrageous kindness in action?
[0:04:49] KJC: On a personal note, one of my craziest stories, and I travel all the time, Paula, and I get on airplanes and people are not in a good mood, getting on an airplane, right? I mean, it’s almost a game for me, is how am I going to make this a great experience? I’ll never forget, just a few months back, I got on a plane and there is this very uncomfortable man sitting in the middle seat. He is taller than – my son’s 6’4”. He was taller than my son. I could just tell, he was miserable, and I’m supposed to sit next to him in the aisle.
[0:05:24] PF: Yay.
[0:05:25] KJC: I just thought, this isn’t going to work, so I offered him my seat. He looked at me with disbelief and I’m like, “Look, you’re not comfortable. I’m not going to be comfortable. Let’s make this better for both of us.” We switched seats, and the flight attendant was standing nearby me and she must have had such a day. She started crying.
[0:05:47] PF: Oh, my gosh.
[0:05:48] KJC: She said, “Ma’am, nobody ever does that.” I’m like, “Well, maybe more people should.” She was just beside herself and I thought, what? This is outrageous kindness. This is in the littlest moment saying, “How can I make this moment better? Maybe for someone else, maybe for myself, maybe without even knowing who, I didn’t know she was standing there, right?” I didn’t know that this was going to have such an emotional impact on her. Frankly, I was doing it half selfishly, right? I knew if he sat in that middle seat, we were all going to be on hell.
[0:06:24] PF: Everyone’s going to suffer.
[0:06:25] KJC: Right. It’s recognizing that we don’t have to do the big thing in order to make an impact. It is a lot of little things that add up to big change.
[0:06:39] PF: I love that. How can we make this moment better? I feel like, I need to just put that right in front of my computer and have that up there all the time to see. It’s so simple and what a wonderful reminder.
[0:06:51] KJC: Oh, yeah. I sell them. How can we find a better purpose for this moment that’s been getting on Facebook and complaining about it, or whatever? How can we find a better purpose for this moment?
[0:07:02] PF: I absolutely love that. That is your nature. Full disclosure, I’ve met you before and your middle name is Joy, which I pointed out to you as you were given that name for a reason, because you are effusive about it. I wanted to know how it went from being this idea to being a movement. Because a lot of people think, “I want to make a difference.” They say, “I want to do something for someone else.” How did it go from that seed to this full-blown tree that is doing what you set out to do?
[0:07:35] KJC: Yeah. I think at the heart of it, right, is years ago, I was taught by my father who was in the same philanthropic space that I’m in, that helping people find good uses for their resources is one of the most valuable things you can do with your life, right? This concept of asking every day, asking for something every day, asking for help, asking people to be a part of an outrageous goal, asking people to participate in something, inviting people to enter in, or do a better job, or just whatever it is. That is such a blessed role you can have in life.
It started absolutely from that philosophy, from that premise. It’s built upon by more than three and a half decades in the global philanthropy space, working as an entrepreneur, leading different companies, helping organizations reach just tremendously transformative goals and finding a methodology that we call The Kind Method, that helps create that roadmap for you to implement outrageous kindness, to accomplish goals and really have impact with what you’re trying to do.
[0:08:51] PF: Can you talk about that? Can you walk us through what The Kind Method is? Then, tell me why it has gained so much traction in philanthropic circles.
[0:09:00] KJC: Sure, absolutely. It’s a five-step process. I know you’re sitting there going, “Okay, Kristina, but kind is a four-letter word. How is it five steps?”
[0:09:09] PF: I see you worked around that.
[0:09:11] KJC: Yeah. You got bad math, whatever. But no, I love a spreadsheet as much as the next person. But we add a second D to the kind method that I’ll talk about, but it’s a five-step process and it starts with being committed to knowing more. K is for knowing more. In every circumstance, acknowledging that you don’t know it all, right? There’s other perspectives. There’s other data. I tell people all the time, go talk to someone who doesn’t believe in what you’re saying. I love, I don’t know if you’ve read Adam Grant’s book, Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know. In it, he talks about the four kinds of people that show up at every meeting. One is the preacher, one is the prosecutor, one is the politician, and one is the scientist. The scientist is the one that sits there and says, “Okay, what’s good about this? What’s bad about this? How do we make it better?” But I always add a fifth one? I say, there’s always a pacifist, too. That person that just doesn’t think. If they can just sit there and nobody noticed them, maybe they can just go about their business and not worry about it.
It’s being committed to that scientist in all of us, to know more and to know more about the people around us, whether you’re in a business setting, or an individual setting, knowing more, committing to learning and not just assuming. We say all the time and we’ve got a lot of research behind this, Paula, that 100% of people like their own ideas. Right? They’re in love with their own idea.
[0:10:38] PF: It’s like, “How did I even come up with this?”
[0:10:41] KJC: That’s right. Committing to really knowing more, that K. Then the I in the kind method is impact. Really identifying, what are you trying to accomplish? What’s that impact you want to make? I often ask people who are first, putting their toe in the water, being philanthropic, or trying to find that thing that’s going to bring purpose and meaning to their life. I say, it can be as easy as asking yourself. What makes you laugh? What makes you cry? What makes you angry? These emotions connect back to the things that we care about and the things that maybe motivate us and bring us purpose.
There’s so much more research about the importance of purpose, right? When we talk about our impact and what we’re trying to accomplish. I just read an article the other day, Mayo Clinic about how, even in times of crisis, or illness, severe illness, having purpose, having purpose replenishes our physical and emotional energy. It’s helpful to people. It helps them be more resilient when times are tough.
[0:11:55] PF: Yes.
[0:11:55] KJC: What a wonderful thing. The importance of knowing your impact, what it is you want to accomplish?
[0:12:01] PF: That’s incredible. I love that.
[MESSAGE]
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[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]
[0:13:07] KJC: Speaking of those Cs, all the things that disrupt our days and get in the way of us really accomplishing our purpose is normalizing change. You’ve got to be prepared for change, because it’s going to happen, right? We’ve got to have methods for navigating change. We’ve just got to expect it, plan for it, set goals for how we’re going to respond to it. That’s that whole thing about, how do I make this moment better, right? That’s my response to change. Disruptions in the day. I ask people all the time, when was the last time you had a day that went exactly the way you thought it was going to go? Because I haven’t had one of those in a long time.
It’s just change is inevitable. We don’t like it when it’s forced upon us, right? But it’s happening. If you run a business, you know, not everybody’s going to show up to work today. I promise you. I don’t know what business you run. Even if you’re a sole proprietor, sometimes it feels like, maybe everybody didn’t show up for work today.
[0:14:07] PF: Yup. It’s like, I didn’t show up for work today.
[0:14:10] KJC: That’s right. That’s the end in the kind method. Navigating change. When we work in the space, the work I do with Carter Global, the work we do with organizations that are trying to address some of the world and communities’ toughest issues, they’re going to face challenges. Having methods, having processes to deal with change, to deal with disruptions, to deal with things that are just going to get in our way, so important that we think about how we’re going to deal with those and having those plan B, C, D, E is so important.
Then we get to the first D. Kind no more is the K. I, impact. N, navigating change. D is deliver. We’ve got to reach goals. Goals are so empowering, even if it’s simple little things. Setting goals for ourselves, reaching those goals, delivering. I have a practice. I’ve had for a long time. I started this back in the late 90s, when I was helping to run and start a dotcom business and there were 8,000 things to do in a day. My practice is to identify, what are those three most important things I need to do today and start with those?
It’s hard. It is so hard, because you want to get on the email and the phone’s ringing and the text message, but having that practice of at least identifying what those three things are, focusing on those, it works in my individual life. I see it work with teams. I see it work with organizations when it comes to, again, trying to accomplish big things, reach goals and that new products, there are always so many things to do. The more you can distill that down to really identify, what are those things that are truly going to move the needle? I could have said there’s a third D, and that’s deadlines. I don’t like to miss them, because when you do meet a deadline, there’s just something really exciting about it and so empowering.
Delivering. A key component of that, we talked about asking for something every day. You know you’re going to have to ask for help. You know you’re going to have to invite others in to help you deliver. Then the second D, which is, you guessed it, it’s my favorite. It’s dance, right? In all of this. In all of this, we’ve got to find a way to celebrate, to really find a way. I listened to your podcast that you did just a while ago. Let me see. I found my reference to it. You did it with Jeff Perry back in July. He talked about prioritizing play, and just the research around how we are more productive at work, right?
When we’re in a playful place in our hearts, in our teams, in our environment, when we find that play in what we’re doing, to me, that’s the dance. When we find that, we’re more productive. Well, who doesn’t want more productivity? I love the TED Talk that Jennifer Aaker and Naomi Bagdonas did about leaders who, and their research around leaders and how they value. They have found evidence that leaders who understand authentic humor and the importance of humor have more productive teams. They get better outcomes.
Then my last, well, I’ve got so much about dance, I could go on, but I’ll never forget years ago, I was invited to visit with an organization in Chicago that helps people who have unexplainable holes in their resumes, get jobs, and learn how to work. They had had this moment. Every morning, they all would gather, and somebody would have to give an inspirational speech. They would just pick people out of the audience and say, “Okay, come up here and give a speech.” I’m thinking, “Okay, they’re going to pick me. I just know they’re going to pick me.” Fortunately for my sake, I’m a big football fan and it had just been the Super Bowl, and they had interviewed whoever the MVP is. I know this would be a better story if I remembered who it was. They said, “Well, what would you have done differently if you could? You won it all, but what would you have done differently?” He said, “You know what? I would have enjoyed it more.”
[0:18:24] PF: There you go.
[0:18:26] KJC: “I would have spent more time enjoying it, because I think I would have played better.” Here, he was, the MVP. I’m like, okay, so we got to enjoy it, right? Because now we know from stuff, like what Jeff Harry’s doing and other research, we are more productive, we’re healthier, so we got to add that dance to the process and make sure we’re celebrating along the way, especially when we’re working on big projects, big efforts, trying to change the world. Is it easy?
[0:18:58] PF: Exactly.
[0:18:58] KJC: We’ve got to make sure we’re having a good time while we’re doing it.
[0:19:02] PF: Yeah, because we do fall in that trap of just checking it off and being like, “Okay, great. Another one done. What’s next?” And not taking that pause to say like – to really savor that moment and what you have just accomplished.
[0:19:15] KJC: Absolutely. Sometimes it just shifts. It can shift the moment, too. I had breast cancer years ago. I was very fortunate that while I was going through a lot of my treatment, one of my sisters came and stayed with my son. I remember calling home one night after radiation treatment, and this loud music was playing and I’m thinking, “What in the world are you guys doing?” She said, “Well, we’re having our nightly dance party.” I’m like, “Well, what’s the nightly dance party?” “Everybody’s asking him all day long. How’s your mom? Where’s your mom? What da, da, da, da, la? We want to have a moment every day where we’re not focused on that. We’re focused on fun.”
[0:19:58] PF: That is a beautiful practice.
[0:20:01] KJC: Well. I listened also, to your podcast with Renee Fleming and the power of music.
[0:20:06] PF: Yes.
[0:20:07] KJC: Right? The power of music in moments like that to heal our souls, to heal our minds. Why wouldn’t we?
[0:20:15] PF: Yes. Yes. That is so incredibly important. I’m so glad you – We should throw some kind method dance parties to –
[0:20:24] KJC: Absolutely. Let’s do it.
[0:20:27] PF: As you do this, how have you seen it transform the people you work with? When they implement this KIND(d) method, how does it change them?
[0:20:36] KJC: Well, I would say, first and foremost, it frees them from a culture of assumptions, right? So many times, when we work with teams, and the bigger the teams, the broader the list of assumptions that they have about their work, about how things are going to be accomplished, about how their customers, or their donors are going to respond to them. It frees them from that. It frees them to say, “Hey, you know what? Let’s think more creatively. Let’s go out and get some data to really look at this situation.” As a result, they achieve more.
You know what achievement does? It makes us feel good. When you’re pushing that rock up the hill and it just keeps getting heavier and heavier, sometimes it’s because we’ve built up these stories in our heads about the circumstances we’re in. We’ve built up these stories about the people around us and how they will, or will not react to things. Shifting that perspective and saying, “Maybe. Maybe there’s a different way. Maybe by knowing more. Maybe by challenging this storyline, I’ve got running in my head, I can get up and go do what’s going to make me laugh, or cry, or be angry.”
[0:21:46] PF: That’s beautiful. I know you’ve talked about working with teams, working with corporations and what I love about your website, it also shows how the individual can do things. It’s not like, you don’t have to be part of some massive philanthropic organization to practice philanthropy. You can be like, everyday philanthropy in many different ways.
[0:22:08] KJC: Oh, my gosh, Paula. I am so glad you said that, because right now the media would love us to believe that philanthropy only happens when these ultra-wealthy individuals make these huge mega gifts that grab all the headlines. You see them, when Melinda Gates decides to give money away, or Warren Buffett makes an out. It’s inspiring. It absolutely is. Sometimes I think it has the reverse effect, right? It convinces you and me and everybody else that, “Well, I’m never going to be able to do that, so what difference can I make?”
I think the political climate sometimes leaves us feeling that way as well like, “There’s nothing I can do about that. This is so messed up. There is nothing I can do about it.” Yet, sometimes you can change a flight attendant’s whole day, right? And whole attitude just by giving up your seat and letting somebody else sit there and not being all huffy about it. It’s in the little things. It’s always going to be in the little things. It doesn’t matter that you may never do something huge. You just don’t know how the way you live your life is going to touch those around you.
My late husband had a fabulous life, fabulous career, was a high achiever, serial entrepreneur, just such an athlete, just an achiever. Then he got what was called Lewy Body Dementia. It ate at his brain. That was real frustrating for him. So frustrating. But he set a goal. He still wanted to have a purpose. His goal was to make someone else smile every day, every day. He did it up until the moment that he could no longer function. I thought, and his doctors told me, there is no way he should have been able to continue to be as independently functioning as he was, as long as he was. The man played pickleball until six weeks before he passed away.
[0:24:13] PF: That’s incredible.
[0:24:15] KJC: His neurologist would just look at me like, “How is he doing that? He should not be able to do that.” I promise you, it’s because he had a purpose. He had a goal. He wanted to keep making other people smile. You see this. Again, we’ve already to all the evidence is showing us, having that purpose in life not only helps those around you, but it helped you as a person, right? Be healthier, feel better, change your circumstances, get up out of it, get out of the muck, get out of the storylines in our heads.
[0:24:55] PF: What does an outrageously kind world look like to you?
[0:24:59] KJC: Wow, that’s exciting. Well, first of all, it looks like, we all feel empowered to make a difference. We all feel empowered to change our circumstances. We’re not waiting for other people to do that for us, right? We are looking for ways to do that for ourselves and for those around us. I think that’s so powerful. I think the entrepreneurial spirit is so important to our world, not only at this moment, but to our future as well, making sure people still have that creative genius that we don’t just allow technology to get us into some wallowing state of nothingness.
Again, getting back to Renee Fleming’s podcast with you. I mean, just the importance of the arts and creativity, that we all have that space to unleash that good inside of us, whether it’s to build a business, or to start a non-profit, or to ignite new communities around concepts and ideas. To me, that is outrageous kindness.
[0:26:05] PF: I love it. We are going to tell our listeners how they can find you, discover your website, start discovering for themselves what they can do to practice outrageous kindness. Kristina, I thank you for the time you’ve given us today to sit down and talk about it. You’re making amazing changes in the world and I appreciate everything that you are doing.
[0:26:24] KJC: Well, thank you so much, Paula. I appreciate you.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:26:30] PF: That was Kristina Joy Carlson, talking about outrageous kindness and the kind method. If you’d like to learn more about Kristina, visit her website, follow her on social media, or enter a drawing for a free consultation with Kristina, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode.
That is all we have time for today. We’ll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.
