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Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Celebrate International Women’s Day With Amber Olson Rourke [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 458 of Live Happy Now. During March, we're not only celebrating our happiness month, but it's also Women's History Month, and March 8th is International Women's Day. That means it's a perfect time to talk about how women can help empower and support one another. I'm your host Paula Felps. Today, I'm talking with Amber Olson Rourke, an award-winning marketing executive, mom, and Co-Founder of the direct sales company, Neora. Amber, who is also co-host of the Built to Win Podcast, is passionate about empowering women to step into their full potential and reach for more than they think is possible. Today, she's here to talk about how we can look for opportunities to support one another and how that can change the world. Let’s have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:50] PF: Amber, welcome to Live Happy Now. I'm so happy that you're able to join us. [00:00:54] AOR: I am so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. [00:00:58] PF: Well, this is the perfect time to talk to you. It is Women's History Month. We've got International Women's Day in just a couple of days. What the listeners may not know is I do some work with you on your Built to Win Podcast. What shines through so much on that is your passion for supporting and empowering other women. This is the perfect time to get you on the show and talking about that. I wanted to find out, first of all, how you discovered that calling. [00:01:25] AOR: That's a great question. I think when you're trying to really fine-tune what it is that you feel called to do, I think that the experiences give you clues if you're really listening and paying attention to them. For me, it started all the way being on the receiving end of those situations. With growing up, my mom has always really liked going to women's workshops and whether they were women conferences or workshops. I would attend with her. Even though the majority of the people would be adults, I would be there kind of listening and in the experience. I just always felt very fulfilled. My cup was filled through those experiences. Then as I started getting older, I started being asked to be on the presenting side and helping teens with self-confidence, self-image issues, mentorship programs, even through Big Brothers Big Sisters. I did that right out of college and became a big to a little girl. At first, it wasn't really in my career. It was more just things in the community and things that I was doing. Then I just really found that when I was in a situation where I could be able to pour into another person, specifically another woman, I really felt so just full of excitement and light and that kind of those nudges led me to a path where that's a big part of my career now. [00:02:48] PF: It's interesting because you've been very successful in your business. You've built a business. A lot of times, when someone does that, you get away from your roots. You get away from being able to do that. Your time is so compressed. You're also a mother to three girls, and you got a lot going on. So what is it that's so important that makes you keep that as a pillar of what you do and who you are? [00:03:16] AOR: I think it's just, for me, it's where I feel like I can make the most impact and the thing that I am able to give as my gift. I really try to focus on delegating the other things that other people can help me do because you can't do it all. Everyone has a great support system around them, whether that's at home or at work or that you can build. People generally I found are always willing to help, but I think a lot of people kind of get in their own way of the pride of not asking for the help of like, “I can't be everywhere. I can't do everything.” I try and focus my time on where I'm going to make the most amount of impact. For me, this is a part of it is pouring into and developing other leaders, other women that can then go on and do bigger and better things. [00:04:06] PF: I love that because you found a way to work it into your business world and make it part of your business initiative. Can you kind of talk about that, like how that personal development is such a powerful component when you bring it into the workplace? [00:04:19] AOR: Yes. I think that for us, it has been one of our “secrets” to our success is really our investment in the people that we work with. That's our competitive advantage, both in our home office, which we have over 100 employees. Then we have over tens of thousands of independent contractors that are basically like micro entrepreneurs. Anytime you're doing something like entrepreneurial, something out on your own, you're going to go through an entire journey of ups and downs and self-discovery and everything in between. To be able to navigate that, you have to invest in yourself because that is going to be the common factor, right? That's going to be there in different economic times, all different kinds of things that are going to happen. The one thing that remains constant is that you are always going to be there. So if you don't develop yourself, it doesn't really matter what's happening externally. You can never really get past yourself. You're kind of your own limiting ceiling, if you will. We really believe if you can help people lift the lid of what they're capable of doing and what they believe they're capable of doing, you can get a lot accomplished. That's really why we make such an investment in our people in personal development and bringing that kind of information to everyone that we work with. [00:05:41] PF: How do you see women change when they're learning these principles and they are getting support? It’s not just that you support them. It's the other women on their teams, the other women around them. It becomes an entire culture of people supporting one another. How does that change their lives? [00:05:57] AOR: It's really powerful because I think women specifically, like I mentioned, I think have a harder time asking for help and working on those things that they might. They don't just know automatically. For people to be able to start gaining confidence in areas that they maybe have never tried learning that skill set and then seeing that they can do it and seeing that they can do much bigger things than they ever thought possible, it acts as kind of like – I think of it as like a candle. You light your flame, and then you're able to pass that candle on and light someone else's flame. For some people, I think women, especially, they can feel like selfish almost. I'm trying to become the best me, and that somehow feels selfish. If I become the best me, that doesn't mean I'm taking away from being a mother, being a wife, working. It actually makes me be able to show up more fully to all of those rules. It's not a selfish endeavor. I view it as completely the opposite. You're able to be more selfless. You're able to give more of yourself when you're pouring into yourself, right? We all heard that you can't pour from an empty cup, and I believe that's really true emotionally for women. When you see somebody put in the time, put in the effort, put in the work to light their own flame, so to speak, and now they're kind of burning brightly, it almost gives permission to everyone else around them that they can do the same. That it's okay to burn bright. That it's okay to take up space in the room. That it's okay to be incredibly gifted and proud of that. I think that that is something that women struggle with more is burning bright, taking up that space in the room, and being unapologetic about it. Not in an egotistical way but like I'm here to serve and give and help others do the same thing. Once you see that happen, you start seeing the ripple effect of the women around them start fully kind of taking their own light and making it brighter. [00:07:51] PF: You're correct that that is such a hard lesson for women to learn, whether it's the culture that has told us that, our parents that have told us that. There's just so many messages that I need to take care of everyone else first and not myself. How much work does it take within your company to really get people to understand and make that mind shift to embrace the idea of I'm going to support myself, I'm going to rise up, and I am going to burn brightly? [00:08:20] AOR: Personal development, personal growth, it's a never-ending journey. I don't think you arrive at this destination where you're like, “I –” [00:08:26] PF: It’s not like a board game where it’s like, “Yay.” [00:08:28] AOR: Yes. I've learned it all. I've won the game. I think it just evolves because what's interesting is that I see as you develop skill sets, it allows you to get to this next level where you're taking on bigger challenges. Then you get to this next level. That presents different challenges than the ones that you just solved for. As you rise up, you're just solving different more challenging problems, which is great because you can continue to learn. I think my experience, once people see the fruits of their labor, so to speak, in terms of they did the work, and they're showing up more confidently, and they see how that does positively impact their family and does positively impact the people around them, it starts gaining momentum into something that they don't want to stop. They're seeing how it can absolutely allow you to be a better friend, mother, employee, whatever it is that you want to become better at. [00:09:27]   FT: How do you think that helps when they're weathering things like the pandemic? We’ve got a lot of divisiveness going on in the world today. [00:09:34] AOR: A lot. [00:09:35] PF: A lot of turmoil. What difference do you see in how they handle that when there is this sense of unity and this sense of support? [00:09:44] AOR: That's a great question. I think when you come from a mindset that is based in the impact that you want to make, and it isn't fear-based because I believe that a lot of what we have lived through the last three years is all fear-based kind of environment of what possibly could go wrong and what – people get stuck in that, and then it becomes really hard to get unstuck out of that. When you can approach things not just with like a Pollyanna everything is fine outlook because there is and was significant challenges in today's environment, but you can view it from the lens of I see that, I understand those challenges, and what is the impact that I personally want to make, and what is one step that I can take towards that impact. I think people get overwhelmed by I personally can't solve all of these issues. Yes, no one can. But you can show up in a way where you're taking a step, and you're taking steps that are going to make a positive impact in the direction that you would want things to go. That's true in a microcosm of your marriage, your job. It's also true at a macrocosm of your city, your state, your country. It matters. It matters how we choose to show up and how we choose to view those situations. I do think being surrounded by like-minded people who see it that same way and are committed to making their positive contributions really helps you have a bigger kind of sense of hope and fortitude in humanity than you would see on the news. [00:11:23] PF: Absolutely. You talked, too, about having daughters. You got three little girls. What I love is they're being brought up believing this way. So many of us have a disadvantage because we become adults, and then we start figuring this out. When you're raising daughters to support one another, to believe in themselves, and to believe in their ability and the ability of the other women around them, how does that change what our future looks like if they can grow up believing that and knowing that? [00:11:56] AOR: I think it is so powerful, and I think everyone one has that ability to put their children in those circumstances. Or even if they're not physically there, there are so many powerful women today that are CEOs that are doing really important work in medical field and scientific field, all of these different things. You can just look up those stories and tell them to your kids because kids can only imagine to the degree of which what we show them. That doesn't necessarily have to be what you're specifically doing, but it's about creating that environment that teaches them that they can be anything that they want to be. I see it, for sure, in my girls. One of my repeating message to them is we can do hard things. When they tell me of a challenge, my response is to say, “I hear that. I appreciate that. That does sound hard.” But we can do hard things, and I want them to develop that resiliency. They see me speak from stages. They see me do a lot of things. Now, on their list of what they want to be, it's, “I want to be a CEO in charge. I want to do big things,” which I love. I love that that is in their mindset from a young age, that that's possible. Whether they end up wanting to do that or not doesn't really matter, but I want them to know it's possible for the taking. [00:13:16] PF: Absolutely. I love that. I love that. I do see that with a lot of young children that I know now that are in my circle that they're growing up, and they don't see the limitations because they're being raised by women like you who have already overcome the limitations. To the girls, those obstacles don't even really exist. [00:13:37] AOR: Right. [00:13:38] PF: I love that. [00:13:39] AOR: I think that's so important because I think if you operate as if the obstacles do exist, you can almost create them. You can almost walk into a room or walk into your first job thinking that there are doors that aren't open to you that maybe really are. But you've been taught that they aren't. Just assuming that they are is like half the battle, I believe. [00:14:03] PF: Yes. That's a fantastic way to look at it. One thing that reality TV would tell us, and I've had women tell me this, is women aren't there for each other. If you watch Real Housewives and whatever, you're going to believe that. What do you say about that? When you hear someone say like, “Women, you've got to watch their back because they're competing with you. They’re not your friend,” how do you manage that kind of a situation, and what do you say to that? [00:14:34] AOR: That has not been my experience in my career. Again, I would say that how is that belief serving you? That's always what I think about if it's a belief that I'm holding is like how does that help you to believe that. The irony is if you do believe that, in your gut, your soul, that's your belief, you will find that evidence, right? Kind of almost create that environment for yourself. I will say that in my journey, there's definitely been women who tried to tear me down. But there's been more men that have tried to tear me down. It's just people. There's just those types of people that exist in the world that don't support you. But you get to choose if you keep those people close to you. I assess really quickly if somebody is somebody that is going to not cheer. Cheers louder when you fail than when you succeed. Then they don't get my time and my energy. The community that I have around me now is just filled with women who cheer for each other and support each other and really rocks for each other to help each other grow and win together because there's plenty of light and space for every single one of us. It doesn't have to be a competition. [00:15:52] PF: Right. You've built that environment. For someone who's working in an environment that's not like that, how can they work through competitive environment and try to become more collaborative, try to get support going within their own little network? [00:16:09] AOR: It sounds cheesy, but I think that the change you want to see always starts with you. You can decide to be that kind of woman or supporter, and find somebody that you connect with in the office, and take them to lunch, and talk about how can I help be of support to you. How can I help you in your career goals and share where you're going with them? It can start just with that one relationship that develops, where you're both trying to help each other achieve and help each other grow. In my experience, it kind of grows organically from there. You'll find more of your own people, people that see things the same way as you. It's never going to be everybody because we're dealing with people. There's always going to be people who aren't that way, but you can definitely develop a large enough system of people to help you feel supported. [00:17:02] PF: Absolutely. What are some of the things we can do to support other women? [00:17:06] AOR: I would say verbalizing your support and your kudos. It's like if somebody at your church service stands up and does a great prayer, go and tell them. Speak that truth into them because I think women struggle a lot with confidence that whatever they just did isn't good enough. Just going and saying, “Thank you so much for sharing. You did a great job.” Or you see somebody give great service at a store. Telling them, “You were really made for this. You give such great service. You brought a smile to my face.” Offering that. I think sometimes people view like if they give out compliments, it somehow takes away from themselves. If you shine the light on someone else, it dims your light. I found the opposite. Give it out freely and your light shines even brighter. I think you can do that in just day-to-day interaction. Tell other women when you see them doing a great job. Also, you can do it online because I tell a story about where there was this amazing picture of Carrie Underwood on social media. I never stop and look at comments, but she look fabulous, perfect body, amazing talent. I went to check the comments, and most of them were negative and judgmental about her looks or her talent or what she should wear or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It goes on and on. It’s like I don't even know what these people do with their time, but it's like you can be the opposite voice. You can be like – to someone you just kind of barely even know that you're friends with on social media, and they share something that you think probably might have been scary for them to share. They share a new business venture. They share that they're going to do something out of their comfort zone. Be in their corner. Just verbalizing your support goes way, way further than you would probably think. You might think they don't care what you have to say. Your support, no matter how well you know them or not, absolutely bolsters their confidence. [00:19:07] PF: That is such a fantastic point to bring up because it's something we don't do enough and when you see how people respond to it. For me, that kind of is a dopamine hit, just to see people react. I think people aren't used to getting complimented that much. When you do, even as you said, it can be something small and the way that they light up. It’s like I just handed them money. It’s such a boost. You think about how good you feel when someone notices something you did. It's like, yes, we should all be walking around doing that all day every day. [00:19:42] AOR: Right, yes. Scanning for people that you can encourage just with your words, it's so easy. It's free. It's simple. [00:19:50] PF: Exactly. It changes because you change that person's day, how that's going to change their next interaction. [00:19:56] AOR: Right. The ripple effect is huge. It really is. [00:19:58] PF: Exactly. Exactly. That’s one great way to support. Another thing and I know you are big on this, I don't want to let you go without talking about that, and that's mentorship. Can you really dig into why it's so important for someone who has achieved things, who understands personal development? Why is it so important and almost a responsibility to become then a mentor to others? [00:20:24] AOR: Yes. I think that kind of twofold. I think there's a couple reasons why people – everybody needs a mentor, right? Some of it is just that you can't see the full picture yourself. No human can see kind of 360 degrees. We all have blind spots. We all have things that we bring our own kind of past experiences to. To be able to have someone who can see whatever you're walking through, whatever you're trying to grow through from a third-party lens is really powerful. I've had some of my biggest breakthroughs of what was actually holding me back that I would never have been able to got to by myself because I was kind of already so stuck in whatever I was on, the hamster will in your mind about. Having that mentor relationship, somebody that you trust enables you to get much further than you would go by yourself and remove roadblocks that you might not even know that were there, didn't know how to remove. I think it's also somebody that can help you think bigger and challenge you to think bigger. For those reasons, you kind of turn it back around of why it's so important. It’s that being a mentor to somebody. I think the word maybe sounds a little intimidating like, “I'm not a mentor. I'm not qualified to do that.” But it really just means that you're going to show up for that person, and be in their corner, and support them, and challenge them to think bigger, and to give them kind of the truth and love when you see that of what might be holding them back, and make connections for them, and make introductions for them, and be the first to comment on their posts about their business or whatever it is. You don't have to necessarily be uniquely qualified to do that. Anybody can do that. It's like somebody that's gone the way already that can turn around and help somebody else go that same way. It is really meaningful because when you're trying to do something big, you will get knocked down. I think one of the biggest predictors of if you get back up is if there's somebody there putting their hand out to say, “Come on. Let's go. You got this.” People need that. I think if you're to the point where you're on the right track or on the journey of success that it's a responsibility to turn around and help others do that same thing and help them get back up when they need you. [00:22:50] PF: It also provides you with reinforcement. It reminds you. Doesn't it also – it's like, “Oh, my gosh. I remember being in that state.” It gives you such a state of gratitude of like, “Oh, I remember overcoming that obstacle. I remember what that was like.” I think it does kind of serve just such a great teaching reminder for us when we're doing that, too. [00:23:10] AOR: Absolutely, absolutely. [00:23:12] PF: As we head into International Women's Day, what do you want women to know? How do you want them to approach this and maybe use this as a day to actually observe it and start taking on some sort of a practice to support someone else? [00:23:26] AOR: That’s a great question. I would say, kind of going back to what you're talking about, maybe think of some women in your life that deserve some kudos and some recognition. Give them a shout-out. Send them a message about how they are inspiring you and how they show up in their life. Or give their business a shout-out on your social media about how that they've inspired you with what they're accomplishing and what they're putting out into the world. I think that there's – it's a great day to kind of have that reflection point of the people that you can show up for in that moment and support. Then thinking about are there women that you work with or that are in your community or are in your clubs, churches, whatever that might be? Is there someone that just connects with you that you think about when you think of that that you could reach out to and lend a supporting hand to? Maybe that just drops into your mind a name of like, “Oh. When we were talking through this, that person's name –” I would say that's never an accident when those names pop into our head, that there's a reason that they did. Thinking of even just one person that you could reach out to and say, “I love what you're doing. How can I support you?” At the end of the day, we all rise together. I think it's a great kind of month and day to think of how you can be a part of helping other people rise. [00:24:55] PF: I love it. Amber, thank you so much for coming on the show. We're going to tell everybody how they can check out your podcast, how they can follow you on social media, how they can learn more about you. I really appreciate you sitting down and sharing your insight with us. [00:25:09] AOR: Well, thank you so much for having me on. It's been super fun. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:25:16] PF: That was Amber Olson Rourke, talking about how women can better support one another. If you'd like to learn more about Amber, follow her on social media, or listen to the Built to Win Podcast, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every Tuesday, we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Take an Inner Field Trip With Leesa Renee Hall [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:01] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 449 of Live Happy Now. If you're looking for an adventure to start the new year, why not take an Inner Field Trip? I'm your host, Paula Felps, and today I'm sitting down with Leesa Renee Hall, a mental health wellness advocate and author of the Inner Field Trip Workbook, which helps us explore what drives us, what oppresses us, and to recognize our personal biases. Armed with that information, Leesa says, we can change the way we move through the world and transform our relationships, which seems like a great way to start the year. Let's find out more. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:38] PF: Leesa, Happy New Year. [0:00:40] LRH: Happy New Year, Paula. Thank you. [0:00:43] PF: It is. It's a shiny, brand-new year. We're all excited about that. We wanted to kick it off with you, because you've got this terrific workbook that really helps us explore a lot of things inside. This is a time when people are looking at new beginnings, and your workbook fits so well into that. To get started, tell us what an Inner Field trip is. [0:01:06] LRH: The Inner Field Trip, it's a way to go internal within, and ask yourself those deed questions about the internalized messaging that you have, that you hold, that you've been socialized to believe that hinders your personal growth. The way I conceptualize the Inner Field Trip, I'm a hiker, I hike all the time. The way I conceptualize the Inner Field Trip is like a hike. We go, we hit the trail, and we go along a rugged, rocky terrain, get to the lookout, and then circle back to the trailhead. The Inner Field Trip is similar to that, but instead of going and driving to a trail and trudging along the rugged terrain, instead we go inner, internal, and we traverse our internal rugged terrain, and see what sights and sounds are along the way. [0:02:03] PF: What's so interesting is a lot of times, even if we think we know ourselves, we might be surprised at some of the pitfalls, some of the uneven terrain that we encounter when we go inside. [0:02:15] LRH: That's one of the reasons why doing the Inner Field Trip, or any introspective work, is so difficult for people, because it's Amanda Palmer, the musician said in an interview once that, it's like you go in to confront your inner part of yourself, and they're in the dark basement lifting weights. You confront them, and they're like these big, muscly things, and it's like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, it can be scary to go within and ask yourself those hard questions. [0:02:51] PF: Well, tell me how you came up with this idea, because it's very – I've seen a lot of work books I've seen – there's so many ways that you can approach self-discovery and awakening and change, and yours is truly unique. So, tell me how you came up with this. [0:03:04] LRH: I always held a diary, but I hadn't written in one for a long time. I had one when I was young. The typical pink with a nice fuzzy exterior and a lock on there, when I was a teenager. I wrote in them a lot. You fast forward decades later, and I had a few personal setbacks, and I started journaling. I found that it was very therapeutic. At the time I didn't even know it was a thing. I didn't know that one can journal to improve their mindset, to improve their thought process, to improve their health. There's a lot of study around it. It's called expressive writing. There's a doctor or psychologist who's done almost 25 years' work of research into this. So, the time I'm journaling, and I'm just working through these personal setbacks. I was sharing my journey, or my log book, my dispatches, on Facebook at the time when I was using it quite regularly. People were asking me, “Oh, wow. I love what you're discovering. Can you help me out, too? Could you take me on this journey as well?” I started a group on Facebook in 2015, and I offered some writing prompts that came out of my own experience, and people started doing the same thing, journaling. A couple of years later, I wrote a blog post with some writing prompts. I had a very problematic interaction with a person who holds skin color, and gender privilege, and wealth privilege as well. So, I said to him, I said, “You seem so angry. Why are you so angry? Maybe take these writing prompts and sit for 15 minutes and journal.” He told me all sorts of terrible things about who I am. [0:04:54] PF: Oh, wow. [0:04:55] LRH: Yeah. It was terrible. It was awful. I threw the writing prompts in a blog post, and in the first three weeks, it was shared 10,000 times. [0:05:03] PF: Oh, my gosh. That says a lot. [0:05:05] LRH: That says a lot. Then people were sending me small gifts, financial gifts, $5 here, $50 here, through PayPal, saying, “This is such a gift. Thank you so much.” That's when I started a paid community to offer more writing prompts to those who like the process of journaling and being introspective. Then that's how Inner Field Trip was birth. [0:05:32] PF: I love that it was so organic. How it started as your own journey, and then just became you, wanting to share it with others. Then others really clamoring for it. I mean, I love when it evolves like that. [0:05:42] LRH: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then it was during the pandemic when I started adding art exercises, because many in my community were sharing with me that their inner oppressor, and the inner oppressor is who we meet on the Inner Field Trip. This is a part of ourselves that bullies us and pressures us into aligning with the status quo. So, what we do is we use the writing prompts to meet our inner oppressor, as we go on our Inner Field Trip, and we capture the ramblings of our inner oppressor through the journaling. Many during the pandemic said to me, many of my members in my community said, “My inner oppressor has become raging, angry, or nonverbal.” That they would sit down to journal to meet their inner oppressor, and nothing would come out. That's when I started adding expressive arts. There's a lot of research around the power of expressive arts and helping us to heal. Helping us to give language to what we don't have words for. Now, the Inner Field Trip combines the power of self-reflective journaling, along with expressive arts or expressive doodling to help us to have a holistic encounter when we go on our Inner Field Trip to meet our inner oppressor. [0:07:00] PF: Yeah. That was something I wanted to ask you about, because you do use so many different approaches, like you have the journaling, there's drawing, there's music, there's movement. Why are those different creative approaches so effective in that self-exploration? [0:07:15] LRH: A lot of what we tackle through the Inner Field Trip is, as I said, internalized messaging, but also internalized biases. So, growing up in a culture that tells us that we need to be self-reliant and pull up your bootstraps, and all these messages of individualism. It can be quite harmful to some people who don't have sheer – where sheer willpower is not enough for them to be able to create and maintain habits. There are environmental factors that prevent them from doing so. There are systemic barriers that they face. Some people are experiencing generational poverty. When you don't have enough time or money to create a space to create new habits, that's going to affect whether or not you can go and do these things, whether you can go on an inner field trip. The power of using all these different modalities is to meet people where they are. If you're experiencing generational poverty, well, maybe you can pick up a marker and sketchbook or even a piece of paper and just do it all for five minutes, and see what happens. There's people in my community who have been diagnosed with different mental health disorders as they've gotten older. I have a lot of my community that got a late-stage ADHD diagnosis or autism. If that is the case in how they learn and interact with content is going to be different. So, being able to do the dancing, or listening to music, or doing the doodling or journaling, helps again to meet people where they are. [0:09:01] PF: I think the book is so well laid out as well, because you build in these what you call active rest stops. I love that. Going back to the hiking thing. They put little things in the trail where you can sit and drink your water and catch your breath. You do that same thing. Talk about an active rest stop and what that is. Because to me, as I was going through your workbook, I felt like, boy, this is something you could do, even if you're not doing the workbook. You could build in like an active rest stop day where I do this. Tell us what it is. [0:09:30] LRH: When I hike, I usually go out. I usually do day hiking. I'll be out on the trail for two, three hours. As I'm marching along and hiking along, I will take a rest here and there. It's a long enough rest, so that I can grab a snack, and check the maps to make sure I'm going the right way. [0:09:52] PF: Important. [0:09:53] LRH: Right. So very important. What I'm not doing is I'm not going to pitch a tent and throw up in a sleeping bag and set up overnight. So, the active rest stop is the same idea within the Inner Field Trip. When it comes to creating and maintaining habits, we often try to do too much too soon. Then we end up burning out along the way. In fact, there is a study or something or stat that says, that most people will abandon their New Year's resolutions by February 12th. I believe that's the date. Then you start a cycle again in the next New Year, where you say, “I'm going to do this on January 1st.” Then by February 12th. It's done. It's abandoned and you spend the next 10 months not making the change. What's important to add to this pathway of trying to create new habits is to incorporate rest and pleasure and play. I recently held a gathering with workbook participants, people who bought the workbook, and we're doing what I'm calling a three-day jumpstart to help them get motivated to do the 30-day challenge in the book. One person said that as they've gotten to know themselves through the Inner Field Trip, they understand that they have this fun, dorky side. Then they said, “I'm a dork.” Then others agreed with them. Having the active rest stop means that we can slow down, rest, have some play, incorporate pleasure, so that we are nourished, nourished enough, so that we go ahead and we meet our inner oppressor again. It can't be all work, because rest is not a reward for the work. It's part of the work. [0:11:46] PF: I love that. That is something that is so often overlooked. I love that you've integrated that, and made it such a central part of this whole journey. That is so well done. Now was there a reason you chose 30 days? [0:12:00] LRH: It takes 66 days to form a new habit. 66. At least the inner field trip will get you half way. [0:12:09] PF: What do you do? You bring up a great point. We need this to be a habit. We need to change our way of thinking, but we get half way there. Do you go on the field trip again, or what do you do for that next 36 days? [0:12:23] LRH: Yes, yes, yes. So, yes, going on a field trip again is a great idea. Some people will repeat the book and keep repeating it over and over and over. Another thing to do is to get into community with others, where there's a chapter in the workbook that gives you some tips on how to form a book club, if that stuff interests you. You could do the first 30 days by yourself, do the next 30 days in community with others, and then that will get you closer to that 60 days. You see, the problem, one of the problems with habits and the forming of habits is that it teaches us – most of the advice out there says that if you don't have the willpower to stick to this habit, then you just need to change your mindset. Here's some mindset work for you to do. As I had shared before that people are experiencing systemic issues, which are preventing them from using sheer willpower alone in maintaining habits. A de-colonized approach to habit forming is to get into communion and/or community with others. Because it's when we are with others that we are more accountable, we're more likely to stick with the habit and we're with individuals who are also working towards the same goal. Doing this alone is not fun. [0:13:48] PF: Right. There's also a lot of research that shows just how good community is for our mental health. Just being with others and sharing that. That in itself, do you see changes in people when they're able to, instead of writing – I love journaling, it's such a valuable tool, but if instead of journaling, they're able to sit in a group and say, “This is how I felt and this is what I said.” Then someone else is saying, “Oh, my gosh. I didn't know someone else felt that way. I have the same thing.” What does that do for them? [0:14:18] LRH: Exactly. When I do the inner field trip, either in my community, virtually or in person in a workshop room, not only are we meeting our inner oppressor through the journaling, not only are we meeting the inner oppressor through the arts and the expressive doodling, but we also dance. After we journal and everyone's in their emotions, I throw on Madonna's Material Girl and we prance around the room until that song ends. [0:14:47] PF: I love it. [0:14:48] LRH: It's interesting, Paula, because some people, there's tears dripping down their face, because of the journaling has brought up things, and then you'll see them with their shoulder slump down, their hands hanging at their side, like spaghetti noodles, but yet, and they're still weeping, but they're prancing about the room with everyone else. It is so funny to witness. We do this, we do the music after such an intense journaling, because not only are we doing it in community with each other, but it helps us to discharge some of that energy that might be trapped within. So, that when we sit back down in community, we now feel more freedom in sharing what has come up in the journaling and the expressive arts. [0:15:34] PF: That's terrific. Can we talk a little bit about the effects that you've seen for people going on this journey? What happens when people start looking at their unconscious biases and really drawing those out? [0:15:46] LRH: Yeah. Oh, my goodness. It's so magical, Paula. It's so magical. I love it. I love it. I love it. The inner field trip itself was developed in community. People will pick up the workbook, do it on their own and they're great. Some people are like that. I'm a solo hiker. I prefer to go hiking by myself than in a group. Sometimes I want the group, because it's all about the socialization and all that. Some of the things that I've seen happen with people who've gone through the inner field trip is that people's relationships improve, so you can call me a relationship fixer. [0:16:21] PF: Now, there you go. [0:16:24] LRH: But also, for some people their relationships don't improve. I know that sounds weird, right? [0:16:32] PF: Is that because they recognize that they've been putting up with things that – [0:16:37] LRH: Ah, yes. [0:16:38] PF: - they shouldn't? [0:16:39] LRH: Yes. That's what happens, right? There's an awakening that they have that, wow, look at all this toxicity I put up within this relationship. Whether that relationship is personal, or whether that relationship is professional, like in a workplace or so on. Others have, for example, I've seen a few people in my community who have boldly come out and said, “The gender, or the sex assigned at birth is no longer the gender I identify with.” I've watched over several months, or years how they've transitioned and have become more confident and more assured of themselves. Perhaps, that's not going to be your story. Maybe your story is that you found your voice. I have a lot of people pleasers that come through my community. Weak boundaries, porous boundaries. Then they go through the inner field trip and they're able to have much stronger boundaries. Not rigid barriers, but stronger boundaries. [0:17:39] PF: Is that because they have a stronger sense of self? [0:17:41] LRH: Yes. They have a stronger sense of self and they're able to – they're able to find their voice and use it in a much more effective way. Again, it's not about creating rigid barriers. It's not like, they come out with a much more angry, stern voice, but now they're able to advocate for themselves. Ultimately, when we do this work with the inner field trip, it's about holding compassion for ourselves. It's about recognizing our own humanity, that we are messy, that we will stumble along figuratively on this path, and then when we can see how messy our own humanity is, then we can look at someone else's humanity and treat it with grace and love and compassion. [0:18:30] PF: What are some of the stories? Is there any one that stands out of this incredible transformation that you never would have anticipated would happen by someone going on this field trip? [0:18:43] LRH: Yeah, there's several. There's someone who used to be in my community, and unfortunately, she passed on. Just a wonderful advocate for the inner field trip. Her first name was Rachel. When she first came across the inner field trip, she was very timid, very timid, and broken as well. As I got to know her, she shared more about her experience, her life. Over and over, just many people taking advantage of her kind spirit. Once she went through the inner field trip, and she'd been in part of the community for many, many months, and she, in one of our gatherings, in one of our circles, she shared that she was able, finally able to communicate with her ex-husband, what her needs were around the co-parenting. She broke down in tears with us, because she said she had never before stood up to him that way. She thought he was going to rage, or get upset. But instead, he accepted her boundaries. She said, “Wow, who knows how different our relationship would have been,” had she known how easy it would have been to express her boundaries around co-parenting. [0:19:58] PF: That's amazing. [0:19:59] LRH: We cried, yeah. [0:20:01] PF: It sounds like, going through the field trip doesn't just change internally. It really changes the way these people are moving through the world. Then they are having an effect on the people that they come in contact with, because they're interacting with them differently. [0:20:19] LRH: Exactly. When people go through the inner field trip, one of the things that comes out is that they recognize that how they take direct action, whatever that looks like, that they feel more confident doing so in a way that aligns with their personality and their uniqueness. There are a lot of causes that we care about. Whether it's about saving the trees, or saving the pets, or maybe there's a conflict happening around the world where you really care about the plight of those who are suffering. Whatever that cause is, we each have something that we care deeply about. The way that people believe direct action should take place is you've got to go up there and march. You have to hit the – bodies on the line, boots on the ground is what I often hear. For some of us, that's not a form of direct action that we can take. Either, maybe you have a disability and you're not able to put those boots on the ground. Perhaps, you're not able, maybe you're time deficient or under-resourced in terms of time and you can't get to these marches and sit-ins, and so forth. When you can understand yourself better and you're able to work through your internalized issues, that confidence builds because now you know that, hey, my form of activism is writing letters, or my form of activism is holding space in a therapy room, in a session with someone who's gone through some trauma. If, as a therapist, you can sit there and provide compassion and help that person heal, that's your form of activism. Activism, taken direct action, doesn't have to look like this. There are so many different ways that we can show up in the world to help those who are suffering. [0:22:11] PF: I love that. I love that. Again, your workbook really lets people discover what's right for them. They're going to run into some uncomfortable characters on rough terrain inside that field trip. Again, what's so wonderful is there is a community that you've built, that they can reach out to and they can become part of and they can help process it with someone else. [0:22:34] LRH: Yes, absolutely, absolutely. [0:22:37] PF: As we start this new year, what is your wish for the people who are listening to this? What do you hope that they can do and accomplish by going inside themselves? [0:22:49] LRH: What I wish is that we stop trying to become allies. Instead, we look at becoming better ancestors. My wish is that we stop passing on pain and we start to pass on healing. That even if you don't have biological children, or you're estranged from your biological children, we each have something that we can pass on to the next generation. That's what I would like to see us do, that we look ahead and we take on the Iroquois Nation thinking, which is all about looking seven generations ahead and asking ourselves, “What decision am I making now in terms of the habits I'm going to form that I can pass on healing that will resonate seven generations from now?” I wonder how much different we would all be if seven generations ago our ancestors did that. They looked ahead and said, “Okay. I don't know what their faces will be. I don't know what their names will be, but I want to make sure I make a decision now in terms of the habits I develop, so that seven generations from now, my descendants look back and say, “Well done. Well done.”” I think a lot of the things we focus on and the things that are grabbing our attention is a distraction. A distraction away from the work that we need to do, so that we become better and we pass on better things to our descendants. [0:24:23] PF: That is so well said. We are very fortunate to have you in this tumultuous time on our planet – [0:24:29] LRH: So tumultuous. [0:24:31] PF: Yeah. To be able to guide us through this. I mean, this is – your timing on this and obviously, you were put here at this time for a reason and this workbook is such a wonderful way to help us navigate it. I thank you for doing that and I thank you for joining me here today. [0:24:48] LRH: Thank you, Paula. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:24:53] PF: That was author and mental wellness advocate, Leesa Renee Hall, talking about her Inner Field Trip Workbook. If you'd like to learn more about Leesa, follow her on social media, or learn more about the Inner Field Trip Workbook, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Overcoming Unhappiness at Work With Greg Kettner [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 439 of Live Happy Now. If you aren't loving your life at work, you're not alone. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm talking with Greg Kettner, Founder of the organization WorkHappy and an expert in workplace well-being. New research shows that workers are the unhappiest they've been in years, and Greg's here to talk with me about why we're becoming less happy on the job, what it means to our mental health, and what we can do to make things better. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:35] PF: Hey, Greg. Thanks for coming back. [00:00:38] GK: Hey, Paula. Thanks for having me. It's good to see you. It's been a couple months. But, yes, life is good. It's always good to see your face. [00:00:44] PF: That's so awesome. Well, so new study is out and the first thing I thought – okay, two things popped in my mind when I read it. First was like, “Man, that's really sad.” The other one was like, “I need to talk to Greg about this.” [00:00:56] GK: Well, good. [00:00:58] PF: As you know, that's what I did. I reached out, and I wanted to talk to you because this study, it's telling us that workers are the unhappiest that they've been in three years. Then when you trace that back and it's like three years ago, we were in a pandemic, and we were all pretty miserable. So when we say we're less happy than we were then, that's a sad state of things. I guess for starters, before we talk about the why, does that kind of line up with what you're seeing in the work that you do? [00:01:25] GK: Yes. I think we all went in hunkered down, and it was brand new, right? Nobody knew what to do. Are we working from home? How do we work from home, right? I mean, remember Skype. I mean – [00:01:37] PF: Who had Skype anyway? What? [00:01:40] GK: Now, Zoom is a verb, right? [00:01:42] PF: That's it. [00:01:43] GK: So now, we've learned how to go through it. But now, people are struggling with I have to bring my employees back to the office. Or employees are like, “I don't want to go back. I enjoy working on my pajamas and getting my work done.” So it is. I'm finding the same thing that people are just like, “I want to do meaningful and purposeful work and do something that's going to mean something, not just a paycheck anymore.” [00:02:09] PF: So do you think that's a big part of what's driving this dissatisfaction? Because I noticed in the study, they talked about it's not like the ups and downs that we used to have with work where it's like, “I'm really mad at my boss.” It’s just a complete apathy and disinterest. [00:02:24] GK: Yes. I think also, too, people have kind of had more time and even me personally, right? I got a phone call two weeks in the pandemic, and my boss was like, “We've taken away your job. You're no longer essential.” [00:02:38] PF: Which is everybody wants to hear that. I'm nonessential. [00:02:42] GK: I go, “If I'm going down, I'm going down.” So I'm like, “Well, I think you're nonessential, right? [00:02:47] PF: I'm not nonessential. You are. [00:02:50] GK: He felt that he could save money by eliminating my position, and I was mad. I was like no fault of my own. I had increased sales. I had done everything that he’d ask, and here I was. But looking back three years, I took the lemons and made lemonade and transitioned like a lot of people did. Now, I'm helping people. How do we work happy, whether we are back in the office or working remote? It is a struggle for a lot of people. [00:03:18] PF: Yes. Do you think there are people who feel like they might have missed that window to reinvent themselves, and they've now – instead of doing as you did, you were kind of forced into a situation where you had to make a change, and you created basically your dream job. I know other people have done similar things. Do you think people who didn't take that opportunity are feeling depressed and trapped in their old jobs? [00:03:44] GK: Yes. For sure, right? Because they look back and going, “Well, Greg's doing it. Paula's doing it? Why am I not, right?” You missed the boat. Some of it is the older workforce, they were getting towards retirement. They didn't know how to pivot, right? I mean, I'm on the older end, too, right? Whereas my daughter who's 18 would show me how to use Zoom, right? So I have that advantage. But I think that is a lot of people like, “Well, I guess I missed my boat. I've got 5 to 10 years left. Let's just keep our head down and keep grinding.” That's no way to work. [00:04:18] PF: How dangerous is that for us to stay in that kind of a work mode? Because work constitutes such a huge part of our day. Then whether we're unhappy or happy, it affects how we go into that night, which then sets up the following day. So for us to stay in a mode where it's like, “I'll just suck it up and hate what I do,” what does that do to us? [00:04:42] GK: Well, it brings us down. It's not good for our mental health, right? You get in that spiral and in the mindset. There's ways to deal with that depression, right? I mean, a lot of people who work really hard, they turn to the bottle. I've done that before myself, and that's one way to get rid of like, “Uh, my job sucks.” But the other way is want to take the other approach and do meditation or get a hobby or increase your friends, right? One of the biggest predictabilities of happy people at work are the friends that they have, right? If you have one or two good friends at work, life is much better because you have those people to confide with. You can go to lunch with them. You can talk about your problems or your successes, that kind of thing. Yes. If you don't do something, it's a long 5 to 10 years if you're miserable at work. [00:05:33] PF: Yes. Those friendships at work are everything. I know, especially in my 20s and 30s, that's where my friend group came from. I'm still friends with people in my very first newspaper job. We were little hooligans, and we're still friends and basically because we know where all the bodies are buried. But blackmail can be a great bonding experience. But that is. We had such great times. We had such a great friendship. Even though we were getting paid dirt, and we didn't like the kind of stories we’re were having to write, we had a great time. That changes that whole experience. [00:06:11] GK: Yes. The happiest I've ever been at work were jobs where I did have good friends, where we loved what we did, and it necessarily wasn't money. Because I've had jobs that have paid more money but I wasn't happy. I was just reading a study a couple of weeks ago where people now would rather felt like their voices heard, that they matter, a pat on the back, congratulations. Those kinds of things versus a $10,000 raise. [00:06:37] PF: Which is stunning because we used to really think about the money, and that was our measure of success. What changed? What has changed that mindset a little bit? [00:06:45] GK: I just think we came to a realization during the pandemic that anything can happen to us, right? I know that as horrible as it was, I tended or tried to stay on the positive side, and I did well. But there were days of overwhelm and whatnot. But just being in the mindset of I'm here to serve. I'm here to help other people. It's just amazing how much better we feel. Then that leads, obviously, as you know, into our personal lives, into our families, into our spouses, into our kids, right? If we come home from work and we're all grumpy, well, then your family's going to be grumpy. Our friends are going to be grumpy. It spirals. [00:07:22] PF: Now, what practices do you use or do you recommend? Because I think you don't come home from work grumpy anymore. But what do you recommend when someone – when you have a bad day, it is hard to detach from that, to disengage and reset yourself. Do you have any tips that you offer people of if you're in a situation, you don't like your job? You're trying to get out of it, but you're not there yet. How can they do that? How can they do that little reset before they walk in the door and bring down the entire house? [00:07:49] GK: Yes. No. I think it's whether meeting someone after work or going and doing something. I like to golf. So if I have a bad day and when I pick Becky up, and she's like, “Ooh, do you need to go golfing tonight,” right? I mean, you can – but golfing, to me, I usually go by myself, just because I like the solace of it but just doing stuff like that. But in the morning, it's a routine, right? I get up and I exercise and I like to exercise before I do my meditation and my breathing because it gets me in the right frame of mind, right? It gets the endorphins going. So I'm feeling better already. Another thing is I don't check my phone until eight o'clock, until I start working, or my email. Whatever it is, right? Because you can spend hours, and I'm just as guilty of it. Now, I'm keeping my phone in the office. When I go to bed, I got an Alexa that wakes me up in the morning but not the doom scrolling, right? But it's doing little things. I have ADHD, so I'm all over the map. But I never thought I would be able to meditate, and I started out. I went to YouTube, and there was a three-minute meditation. Man, that first one was so long. [00:09:00] PF: Yes, the longest three minutes of your life. [00:09:04] GK: Right? I know I was nowhere near meditation because meditation is trying to get your mind to think of nothing. But now, I'm up to 20 minutes every morning. [00:09:12] PF: Oh, wow. That’s incredible. So it's a practice, right? But if we do the right things and then we have to do brief. Some people, it's journaling. Some people, it's going for a walk. Some people, it's just listening. Now that I'm married, I've learned how to listen instead of fix things, and that's so much better, whether I'm the one who's listening or Becky is the one who's listening, when I've had a rough day as well, too, right? It's that release valve. It's like a pressure cooker. Take the lid off for a bit, talk about it, and you're just like, “Ooh, okay.” The rest of the evening is going to go better. [00:09:43] PF: That's terrific. So what about people who are still working at home? Because I know there are some really interesting findings from Gallup about remote employees, and that's getting a lot of attention right now. Basically, it's saying that remote workers are feeling very disconnected from their workplace, from their mission, and the purpose. That brings up, too, what you were talking about having your friend at work. If you're not going to work and you're working remotely, even if you have banter on Slack or something like that, it's not the same. So you don't have that connection. So I want to talk about how you can deal with that. Then it's like why is – since remote working, we're looking at that as being this next big thing. How are we going to get through this feeling of disconnection? [00:10:25] GK: Yes. Well, I've certainly felt that, right? I'm an extrovert. So I sit in my room all day, in my office here. My wife is inverted, and she's going into the bank and working, right? So she has all the people, I don't, and our personalities are completely different. So what I've been doing twice a week, I will set up lunches or coffees with a friend, right? Even if it's just a half hour, I go talk to them, get out of the house. But I also – I set my phone for 45 minutes. Every 45 minutes, it goes off, and I get up, and I go outside, and I walk for 15 minutes or change laundry or whatever it is. But when we're at our desk – and you know this well, too. You work from home a lot as well. We're sitting here sedentary, and that's not good for our health or mental health, so whether it's getting up and going and seeing a friend. The other thing is be more intentional about getting together. My brother is a psychologist. He just wrote an article about how men are feeling more lonely even than women are, right? Because women are really good at connecting. Guys are good at getting together, watching football, and drinking beer. But being more intentional, right? Maybe it's have a couple buddies over and cook burgers with them if it's during the summer and spend time because we are humans. I know AI is taking over everything. Legitimately, there's reason for concern. But AI is never going to replace a hug or a conversation or a laugh or a pat on the back, right? So we still need to do those things. If we're working from home, try and have that outlet, those two or three friends that you can get out once a week or a couple times a week and be social again. [00:12:07] PF: Then what do you do if you're remote working and you don't really feel connected with anyone on your work team? Again, how do you start creating connections at work when you're not at work? [00:12:20] GK: Yes. That's tough. Again, I just have to go back to be more intentional. Maybe even reach out outside of work. Maybe it's a phone call or a coffee or get together. I've had really good success with connecting with people. As you know, I started the group on The HumorLab on Facebook. I came up with it one night at the beginning of the pandemic, and it's been really helpful for me because people reach out saying, “Thank you so much. I work at home all day long, but I checked The HumorLab, and there's no political stuff.” It's HR-friendly. It's PG-13 because I wanted my kid to see it and my mom. But now, there's over 40,000 people sharing their sense of humor. So it's a think tank. When we laugh together, it creates bonds. [00:13:07] PF: Well, that brings up a great point because that is one thing I've done in remote workspaces. I've got a company that I work with, and we use a Slack channel, too, for all our communication. Of course, we've got like the random channel and the humor channel. That is a great way. There's a pets channel, so people put pictures of their pets. So that is a really good way to kind of like, one, show your personality and be able to share that with people. Through doing that, I found people in that group that I know I connect with. Like I can see, okay, I have a similar sense of humor. I can – that person didn't turn me into HR, so I guess I can connect with him or whatever it is. But that is. As you bring that up, that really is a great tool to be able to use remotely to connect through humor because talk about what a great connector humor can be, especially in the workplace. [00:13:57] GK: Yes. It’s great, right? It takes [inaudible 00:13:59]. It releases the endorphins. A powerful example for our family, my stepdaughter lost her dad to suicide 5 years ago. Two days before, we had gone and seen a Brian Regan concert about 45 minutes from here. She loves Brian Regan, and through my connections, we were able to do a backstage meet and greet with him and stuff. So we found out two days later that her stepdad had passed away. It was, obviously, very traumatic for all of us. I remember distinctly about two weeks after, we were sitting around the dinner table, and Rachel started crying, and then Becky started crying, and then I started crying. My default is to humor. When I feel awkward or emotional, I'm like, “Okay, I need to laugh.” So I said, “You know what? Time out. We're going to go sit down.” We put on Brian Regan. Within 10 minutes, we're all laughing. It didn't get rid of the pain, but it got us through this, and it bonded us, right? So time to time, all the time, we pull up Brian Regan. It takes us back, and it makes us laugh, and it created a bond between me and my stepdaughter that I may not have had had we not gone to that show. [00:15:04] PF: That's terrific. Yes. Humor is – it can just really be such a powerful bonding tool. I know a lot of times in the office, it might be dark humor. Maybe what you've done is you've banded together against the evil overlords that are commanding our workplace. But that really is a great tool for helping it. [00:15:23] GK: Yes, yes. Well, the saying is laughter is the best medicine. Unless you have diarrhea, then probably not. It’s probably not your best choice. [00:15:34] PF: I love that. So who's responsible for turning this whole work dissatisfaction thing around? Does it have to come from leaders? Is it – what do we as workers do? Where do we start? Because, obviously, if you read a recent Newsweek article about hybrid working, it's a mess. If you read the study that you and I are talking about, it's a mess. The study that Gallup just had their findings about remote employees, it's like nobody's happy. It doesn't matter whether they're in the office, working at home, or doing a combination. The research would indicate that nobody is happy at work, except maybe you and me. [00:16:09] GK: Yes. [00:16:10] PF: So where do we start turning that big ship around before it becomes the Titanic? [00:16:14] GK: Well, happiness is an inside job, right? I can do things that make you happy. We can get on the phone. We're smiling. We're having a good time. But if you were in a bad mood or if I was in a bad mood, I can't go, “Hey, Paula. Snap out of it,” right? That's a choice that we have to make ourselves. I think it can go from top and bottom. Obviously, it's easier. If you have a manager that is happy-go-lucky and in the right frame of mind, it disseminates through everybody. But it can boil up as well, too. I've had jobs where I did not appreciate my manager. But what I did was connected really well with my teammates, and we would laugh and have fun. We go out for lunch. We do different things. So we became a bond and a team. Even though our manager wasn't the most – he was prickly. Let's put it that way. [00:17:03 PF: That’s nice. [00:17:03] GK: Right? So we were still able to work happy because we knew that it came from within. Whatever he did, yes, it was part of the job. But when he went home, we didn't worry about it. Just because somebody else isn't happy, it doesn't mean that I have to be unhappy and fall in their footsteps. [00:17:20] PF: That's a huge skill to develop, to be able to leave it like that, to say that is their thing, and I don't have to take it home with me. What are some tools that you can give us to be able to implement that kind of thinking? Because it's just human nature to be like, “Man, he was on my butt all day about this. I'm mad at him.” Then all night, it's like, “I should have said this, and why doesn't this happen to him?” Just it eats and eats and eats away from you. So how do you do that, where you kind of say, “No, his deal, not mine. I'm going on. I'm going to be happy.” [00:17:52] GK: Yes. I think it's a learned trait over time. I, obviously, wasn't born that way, and it took me a long time to figure it out. But another thing that we can do, even if you don't like your boss, try taking them out for lunch or her or whatever. Showing kindness, right? Maybe they've got something going on in their life, and it's coming down at work, right? Maybe he's not happy with his marriage, or his kids aren't in school, whatever that might be, that dynamic, right? But if you try and reach out, and you have to, obviously, be careful what you do, especially in this day and age with often politics. But maybe it's having a conversation or saying, “Hey, I had an idea. Why don't the whole team go out and watch a comedy show one night, right?” So everybody's paying for their own ticket, their own drinks or whatever. But, again, you're all sitting around the same kind of table, and you're having fun. Most people, when you're out, and you want to have fun and be friendly and converse, most people, I don't know what the right word is, but will lean into that, right? You're not going to have a manager go to a comedy club with you and just sit there with his arm crossed and be grumpy. If he is – [00:19:00] PF: Hopefully not. [00:19:00] GK: It means you got to call him out, right? [00:19:03] PF: Exactly, yes. [00:19:04] GK: It's doing those things, right? If he's not or they're not leading the way they should be, maybe we can level up and say, “Hey, this is how it is to be happy,” and maybe they'll take notice. Some people won't. At that point, at some point, you need to say, “Is this worth my health? Is this worth my family time?” But I always caution people, if you are starting to look for another job, don't quit. It's always easier to find a job when you have a job, right? [00:19:31] PF: Yes, yes. We talked earlier. I think before we had started recording, we were talking about people not having a sense of purpose and how much that affected work. I want you to talk a little bit about that, and then how we can use that drive to find purpose, to start something on the side that may or may not turn into our business, may or not turn into our next endeavor. But before we talk about how to leverage it, talk about how important it is to feel that your job has meaning. [00:19:59] GK: It's very important. It's night and day. It has been for me. One of the best corporate jobs that I ever had, I was working in the National Hockey League selling tickets. I grew up in Canada. See Gretzky's jersey behind me. It was a fun job. It was a high-stress job. But there were times where it was fun, but it wasn't my purpose because I've always been a happy-go-lucky, and I love making people happy, right? So my purpose is to help other people be happy like I am, right? So if you can find a job that matches your purpose. Not everybody's going to do that, but maybe your purpose is service. But if you're a computer programmer, how are you going to service people writing code? If your purpose is serving others, maybe it's finding a group that you can go volunteer. We have a group here in town. Every fourth Sunday, it's a bunch of dudes. We get together, and we cook dinner at the Christian Aid Center for homeless people. It's giving people purpose because there's older guys who are retired. Some guys bring their kids. It’s showing them that serving other people can be your purpose. So work doesn't necessarily have to align with your purpose. If it doesn't, find an avenue that you can still share your purpose because for the first time over the last three years, first time in my life, I've been chasing my passion versus chasing the paycheck. It’s made a huge difference on my mental health. It's made a big difference in my marriage, my relationship with my kid, and with my friends. [00:21:29] PF: Yes. If someone says, “That sounds incredible, but I don't know what my purpose is,” where do we start? Because that happens, too. You lose – one, your purpose can change throughout your lifetime. [00:21:40] GK: Oh, absolutely. [00:21:41] PF: Then, two, it's like you realize you're so locked down into your job and your routine and your pressures and obligations that you're not even sure what your purpose is. So where do you start when you're at that point? Because once you find that, that can override a lot of your dissatisfaction. Even if you just figure out, wow, this is my purpose, and this is what I can do, you've made this huge leap in mindset. So where do you start discovering that? [00:22:10] GK: Simon Sinek. I'm a huge fan, right? Simon Sinek, I got his book and went through the workbook, Find Your Why, which is really great. But I think also, too, is be more selfish, right? Because how can I serve other people if I'm not taking care of myself? So what do I need, whether it's meditation or listening to podcasts, reading books, talking with people like you? That gets me in the right frame of mind, and that's my purpose. So not 100% of what I do lines up with my purpose. But when I did find it, I can now – that's my North Star, and everything is starting to line and go towards that. But take some time and do some self-discovery, whether it's journaling or like I said. I mean, another person I started following during the pandemic was Jay Shetty, right? He took three years out and became a monk to learn how to serve other people. [00:23:03] PF: That’s such an incredible story. [00:23:05] GK: Yes. Now, his purpose is to make education go viral. Who would ever thought of that? [00:23:10] PF: So in doing that, you talk about journaling. Is it really a case of sitting down and just writing about what do I want to do, asking yourself the questions? Or where do you go with that? Where do you start discovering what you're – [00:23:21] GK: Well, when I read the book or either read it or listened to it on Audible, the Find Your Why, I went through that process and took my time. But now, I still journal, and the journaling that really helps me is when I get frustrated, right? A deal goes sideways or a friend or my wife or my kid, and something's not aligned. I will just sit down and just start writing. It is amazing how much of that crap you can get out of your head by putting pen to paper. Sometimes, when I'm stressed out, I would just start writing. I was like, “Whoa.” I never realized how much that was affecting me, right? It's almost like going to a therapist, but it's just you in a room. But it's amazing, whether it's 5 or 10 minutes a day. But journaling has really helped me as well, too. [00:24:08] PF: I think it's surprising what your higher self will tell you, instruct – you realize. You look back and you read it and you realize, “Oh, I already had this answer. I just wasn't asking myself that question.” It comes out, and it starts developing some clarity. That is also effective for dealing with a frustrating work situation, beyond finding your purpose. But just how am I going to manage it? That is a great way to handle those conflicts and pressures at work. [00:24:36] GK: Yes. Whether you're in the office or at home, if you have a disagreement with your boss or somebody at work, you sit down and journal and write about it for 5 or 10 minutes. It's way more productive than having an argument or saying something that you're going to regret, right? Because you can say whatever you want in your journal. You can tell your boss where to go and how to get there and how fast. If you did that face to face, you're looking for another job very quickly. [00:25:04] PF: When you're journaling, you might be, “That is really funny, and I'm actually going to use that on him when he does fire me.” So you always keep those nuggets. [00:25:14] GK: Yes, exactly. [00:25:16] PF: So with everything that's going on and all the things, you're seeing all the things we're reading, the things we've been talking about. Do you still have hope for the workplace that we can turn this into a happy work world? [00:25:28] GK: I do. I'm an extreme Optimist. I know we can do it. It's going to take a lot of work. But it's a lot easier to work happy than to work sad, right? [00:25:38] PF: True, true. [00:25:39] GK: When we're in a good mood. I mean, anybody, if you're in a good mood, life is great. Things are good. I'm going on vacation, all those kinds of things. But we can. It's just a matter of figuring out what works for us, what works for our companies. Some companies, they need to have people back in the office. Some people are okay with – I had an issue with my bank the other day, and I called in. This guy was in the call center, but he was in his house, 150 miles away from the bank. So there are jobs that you can do that. If that's what you want, if you want to stay at home, maybe take the next three months and come up with a plan on finding a job, something that you like to do, and that is remote because there's a job for everybody out there now. [00:26:22] PF: I love it. I love it. I'm going to come for yours. [00:26:25] GK: Okay. Well, and you do the same thing with the podcast. It's great. I listen to it when I'm on the road. I'm like, “Oh, Paula. Thank you. You made me happy today.” [00:26:37] PF: Yes. You'll shoot me a text sometimes, and that just makes my day whenever you do that. [00:26:40] GK: Yes, right? The one I remember I was driving, I think, from Vancouver to Seattle. It was about some gal who was a teacher, and now she's helping parents who are having kids at home, and they're teaching their kids, right? She's got the toolbox and everything else. So it's being creative. We're no longer stuck to a nine-to-five job. We can do what we want. I mean, look at all the people on Etsy that are doing what they love, right? Turn your passion into profit. [00:27:08] PF: Yes. I love it. I love it. There are so many resources out there for people now of like how to do that. It’s not like you're walking blindly anymore. So there's a lot of ways to do it. I love it. I hope that people feel encouraged to start looking at not just thinking I'm going to quit my job but that positive inside of it. Like that dissatisfaction is actually about finding your purpose, and finding what does make you happy, and being able to live a purposeful life, and get paid for it. [00:27:37] GK: Absolutely. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:27:43] PF: That was Greg Kettner, talking about happiness at work. If you'd like to learn more about Greg, check out his podcast, or follow him on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Celebrating 10 Years of Happiness With Deborah K. Heisz [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 437 of Live Happy Now. Ten years ago, the Happiness Movement was just beginning to gain a global presence, and that paved the way for a birth of a company called Live Happy. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and this week, I'm talking with Deborah Heisz, CEO and co-founder of Live Happy LLC, as we look back on 10 years of sharing happiness. Deborah’s going to explain how her work in personal development led to discovering positive psychology and how that opened the door to launching a company that remains committed to sharing the many ways we can discover greater well-being. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:41] PF: Deb, we're 10. [0:00:43] DH: I know. Isn't that crazy? [0:00:45] PF: Oh, my – [0:00:46] DH: I don’t know what happened. [0:00:47] PF: I know. See, now, here you have an advantage, because you're a parent, so you're used to raising 10-year-olds. [0:00:53] DH: I can't believe my kids are over 10 either at this point. When they say, time flies, they mean it. That’s unbelievable that we're 10. [0:01:02] PF: I know. It was so important. I mean, 10 years is a huge accomplishment for us to have reached there. This just seemed like a great time to talk with you. I wasn't there in the very beginning. I was about three months late to the party, but I'm glad I got invited and I'm glad you've let me stay. Can you take us back to the mindset behind Live Happy, because there was such a compelling argument for creating this movement and creating this platform and it was unlike anything that people were doing. Take me back there of what was going on and what made this ball get rolling. [0:01:37] DH: Well, the initial – my experience up to that point had been in personal development, which was great. I was founding editor-in-chief of the current version of Success Magazine. We were putting out content for people to improve their lives. Really, micro business owners, small business owners, and with tips on how they can have a better outlook on life, or a better attitude from the experts. Since you guys can't see me, I'm doing air quotes when I say “the experts.” Because there's a lot of people that put out content on personal development. Some of it's great, like my co-founder, Jeff Olson and his book, The Slight Edge, and others of it, we're not going to name any names, just not so great. [0:02:18] PF: Really questionable in the science. [0:02:21] DH: Yeah. Well, lacking in science. What happened was, as I'm working on that project, on that publication and really diving into personal development, which I really believe in, I believe we should all be working on ourselves, that there's ability for us to enhance our lives, we can all get better, we can all become better humans, this thing called positive psychology came on my radar. There is an organization called the International Positive Psychology Association and they put on something called the World Congress. At the time, I believe it was their second world congress, and some people that I was working with on Success, the owner and some other went to this and came back and said, “You know what? This positive psychology stuff, it's personal development, but with real science.” I started digging into it and looked at it and it's like, you know what? There is a lot here. There's a lot of stuff they're studying and a lot of things they've learned about human behavior that where people – how people can enhance their lives, that is scientifically based. Because positive psychology is the study, and it was really started by Dr. Martin Seligman, who has been all over our publication for the decade, the decade, right from the beginning. It really started with him standing up in front of the American Psychological Association and saying, “Look, psychology isn't just about helping sick people get well. It could also be about helping well people thrive.” That was the foundation of positive psychology. A lot of people started studying it. He's professor at UPenn. A lot of the positive psychology program at UPenn, a lot of people we've talked to come out of that program. But really, for me, it was, this isn't just somebody talking about experience. There's real data that this works, that if we can take these simple principles, these simple activities and incorporate them into our everyday lives, we can be happier. People need to know this. For me, Live Happy became the ultimate personal development project. It was getting better, becoming a better human, building better families, building better communities based in science. Scientists are really good at studying stuff, and then they publish and share papers with other scientists, so the general public never hears about it. [0:04:45] PF: Exactly. [0:04:46] DH: Never. I mean, they're really good at talking to each other about everything, and the rest of the world isn't even aware of the conversations occurring. We looked at it as this is an opportunity for us to take this fantastic content to a broader audience, to the rest of the world, and that's what really founded Live Happy. Jeff was a big believer in personal development. I’m a big believer in personal development, worked in that space for the previous decade, and now I guess, two decades. Well, but it really was about bringing that out and helping others understand they can make choices that will make them happier. When we talk about happiness, I think it's really important. I know, everybody who listens to the podcast regularly has heard us talk about what we mean by happiness. We don't mean I'm running around with glee with my hand thrown in the air, because I just scored a touchdown, or did a homerun kind of happiness. We mean, the kind of happiness where your personal well-being is higher. Things that you measure to determine how your life is going, how you're feeling about life in general, about how congruent your life is with your dreams and where you want to be, that's what we mean by happiness. [0:06:00] PF: You bring up such a good point, because that has been really instrumental in my development and growth during this last decade, because it let me recognize that I ended up doing a presentation at IPA called when happiness has a bad day. It allowed me to accept that bad day like say, “Hey, this is actually cool. It's fine if I'm sad for a week. That is okay. I still have great levels of well-being.” A bad day does not mean I'm not happy. I think it really has – I'm among those people that's been able to really broaden that and stop judging day by day what happens and look at it over time. Look at the overall satisfaction of my life, instead of the dopamine hits. [0:06:45] DH: It's huge. It makes a huge difference in your life when you start looking at it from that perspective, from the long-term, from the whole, its entirety. I think we've all been exposed online to various toxic positivity discussions. Happiness is not this toxic positivity, where you're positive about everything in life. You always say yes. You always are going, “Oh.” That's almost a disease in itself, right? [0:07:16] PF: It can be dangerous, if you're not acknowledging, if you're not allowing yourself to feel the negative emotions. One, you're not going to enjoy the positive ones as much. Also, you're glossing over some pretty important feelings that need to be dealt with. [0:07:34] DH: That's not what we're talking about when we talk about live happy anyway. You see that outside view in that, hey, this is everything that's toxic about positivity, that there are real problems in the world, that there are real challenges that people need to overcome. Not everyone can just live happy. One of my favorite things that we've done is we don't run away from that. I mean, our top downloaded article is post-traumatic growth. Just basically, how do you grow out of bad things that happen to you? How does that impact your life? It's a remarkable article and it's a really good article and it's on our website. We don't shy away from the fact that you can't be happy in that arms in the air, running around, circling the bases, I hit a homerun every day of your life, because it's life. We're talking about living happy, which is not that, right? [0:08:38] PF: Exactly. Let me ask you, as you were coming up with the concept of the magazine and mapping out what it was going to cover and how it would be involved, how did you determine all that? [0:08:52] DH: We didn't want it to be fluff. We wanted it to have a scientific backing, which wasn't to say that every article was about science, but we wanted it to be scientifically based. We also wanted it to have practical information in it, as well as inspirational stories. Really, we just started dissecting what we felt was good content, versus what we felt was too light, because a lot of stuff that people want to put in is just, that's nice, but that's fluff. We didn't want to be fluffy. That's the best way I know how to put it. [0:09:26] PF: Exactly. [0:09:27] DH: We also didn't want to be so overly technical that your average broad audience couldn't pick it up and read it and get something out of it. A lot of these papers that we read that create ideas for articles, as you know Paula, really go so deep into the science, you almost need a master's degree to start reading the paper. [0:09:47] PF: I had to Google a lot of stuff, when I was – I would be reading a paper and it's like, I don't even have the slightest idea of what they mean by that, or what other study they're referencing. It's like, it was such an educational experience for me, just to be dropped into all that. [0:10:05] DH: It can be a rabbit hole. [0:10:06] PF: It was. [0:10:08] DH: We also, really, particularly the early years, I think less now. Now that we've got a very, very established guardrails on what we will and won't do, we got a lot of stuff that was just fluff. We had a lot of stuff that was just like, pop people's ideas. I want to say, diet of the week, but it was happy idea of the week. This might make you happy. We really shied away from that. Another important piece was we wanted to integrate family. We wanted to integrate home. We didn't want it to be a workplace-only magazine, but we also wanted to include work. Success was really a workplace-only that had some personal development when we're working on it. We wanted to take that and make it a whole life concept. We wanted that to put that positive experience on a whole life perspective. That was really important for the magazine, particularly for me coming out of success, where I felt like, when you talk about business and you talk about personal development, everything ended up being tied to money and monetary success. As we know, money and monetary success and happiness are not – they don't necessarily exist together. [0:11:20] PF: Right. Right. [0:11:21] DH: For some people, it's an neither or. For others, it can exist together. For others, they've got nothing to do with each other. [0:11:26] PF: What I loved about Live Happy, what I loved about it from the beginning is that each issue, you would have a different approach. It doesn't mean the one that was the last month didn't work. It's just that different people have different things that work for them. I think that was always, for me, it's been a delight, because I got to explore things that I wouldn't have known about. I wouldn't have known to research them, had it not been for Live Happy. [0:11:52] DH: One of my favorite things we did was the book, Ten Practices for Choosing Joy, which has my name on it, but the whole editorial staff participated in. It says my name and the editors of. I have to tell you, and the editors of. It should have been the editors of and Deborah for the amount of time you guys spent putting that together. One of the things I love about it is Ten Practices for Choosing Joy, for those of you who haven't read the book, it's available on Audible. It may, or may not be out of print on Amazon, but I recommend you get your hands on it, because what we did was we did Ten Practices for Choosing Joy, and for each practice, whether it was attitude, health, spirituality, mindfulness, creativity, these are all things that there was science behind practicing these things. Can bring you joy, live happy type joy. Each chapter has the science behind what the studies say. Some people put it into practice and then some things you can do to put that practice into your life. We say in the book, and I've said over and over and over again, just because there are 10 practice of choosing joy, you don't do all 10. Pick one, or two, integrate that into your life before you even look at number three, right? [0:13:10] PF: Exactly. Find the one that works for you. It's like a catalog, basically. [0:13:14] DH: It is. Pick the ones that you think. If it's resilience that you need to focus on, focus on that. Don't focus on resilience. It's a recipe for failure trying to do too much. When you talk about the magazine, and by the way, we started as a print magazine, folks. We’re not that anymore. We should probably talk about that in a second. When we look at every issue, we had a slightly different look. Same thing with the book, we had a slightly different focus. It all contributes to your happiness, to your joy, to your meaningfulness in life, to finding your purpose. But you don't do it all. Is just, you pick up the practices that speak to you and make it work. [0:13:54] PF: Yeah. You find what's good for you. It's just like a diet and exercise plan, or a spouse. You find the one that works for you. [0:14:00] DH: If you can't stick to it, it won't. [0:14:03] PF: That's so true. Another thing that is turning 10 this year are our Happy Acts. I think, again, your timing on creating Live Happy was so phenomenal, because the world day of – International Day of Happiness had pretty much just been declared. We were there when that was all picking up steam, and we were able to be part of that. Do you want to talk about, especially that first International Day of Happiness, you were on the floor of the United Nations. [0:14:35] DH: Yeah. I was there. Jeff, Co-Founder, he got to speak to the United Nations. I spoke the following year. We really were right there at the beginning of the International Day of Happiness. It was coincidental. We were doing the magazine and that happened. It wasn't that that happened and then we started doing the magazine. [0:14:54] PF: That's what I mean of the timing was just perfect. [0:14:57] DH: It was. But it was really important and we've continued to see the World Happiness Report every year, we put out. What was happening is governments around the world and the UN was a forum to discuss this and to start talking about it and analyzing it a little better, really had started looking at the well-being of their populations as being a measure of successful country. Happiness, their countries had started with happiness officers, which is something that never happened before. Ministers of happiness. Sounds like we're in a Harry Potter movie. It's the Minister of happiness. Ministers of happiness. Governments were starting to pay attention to this. It truly is, and we're a part of it. I think we're a leader in bringing that information to the general public to a general audience, but there really still is a movement that was started about 10 years ago towards improving the well-being of humans through practices that they themselves can take on and paying attention to that as a measurable outcome. That World Happiness Report every year, there's a list of happiness countries, happiest countries and why. It's been very interesting. But the privilege of speaking at the United Nations is one I'll never forget. It's such an honor, and for Jeff to have that honor that first year and for me to be able to follow it up the second year, it truly was, for me, the indicator of how important what we're doing is. [0:16:29] PF: Yeah. Then, what made you decide, “Okay, we need to do our own thing that's going to be our own celebration and observation of this and create happy acts”? Because that's been so enduring and really to me, something that just is, it’s so unique to live happy and it's something I really love that we do. [0:16:50] DH: Well, I think it goes back to what I was talking about earlier, where scientists study stuff, but they don't share it, right? For me, it really was the, we need some way to get the word out, something simple to get the word out, that there are things you can do to make the world a happier place, to make your world a happier place. We conceived of Happy Acts, which I've described it like this from the beginning, is a social intervention campaign. Meaning, we get people to stop for a few minutes and do something with intent, to make the world a happier place. Even if it's just smiling more. Even if it's just talking to a stranger. Even if it's just dropping a thank you note to someone. Something simple to show gratitude, show grace, show thankfulness, help someone else, buying that cup of coffee for a stranger, we've all seen that go viral. But to make sure that it's done with intent. That's why the cards, that's why people, I will make the happy – the world a happier place by. We're not asking you to make the world a happier place by starting a global charity. Oh, you want to put that in a card and follow up with it? We’re all in. We're asking you to just think about something you can do and realize, which is why it's social intervention, realize that there is something you can personally do to make the world a happier place right now. That's why we did it. I think it's been a great success. I think the world has changed a little bit since we did it, obviously trying to do Happy Acts during a pandemic was a little bit – [0:18:29] PF: That wasn't so good. [0:18:31] DH: Yeah, people don't go to walls, or walls. We did. We did. But we had a great online experience those years. I'm looking forward to making a few tweaks. I'm looking forward to getting back to everybody early next year and talking about how that changed. [0:18:43] PF: I know. It also spun off the Halloween Happy Acts, which we're doing in, I guess it's, yeah, later this month. [0:18:50] DH: No, and I love that. [0:18:53] PF: Yeah, I think there's so much potential for us to be able to do different things with it for different times a year. I'm excited to see what we continue to do with that. [0:19:01] DH: Note, podcast listeners, Halloween Happy Acts, that's later this month, but not later this month. You can check it out right now online. [0:19:10] PF: Yes, you can. You just mentioned podcast listeners. That was another element that you brought in and brought in very early on, even before a lot of people really understood what was going on with the podcasting space. [0:19:26] DH: I'm so thankful we did. [0:19:28] PF: I know. I'm glad you got in there at the time that you did. Really, that was a way you saw that as a way to amplify the content that we had in Live Happy Magazine. Can you talk about that? It was so interesting the way it started and then how it's evolved. [0:19:43] DH: At the time, I did. We were doing these great interviews with these thought leaders, these very eloquent, passionate people. You sit in the interview and you're doing the interview, and you know this, Paula. You're doing the interview, and you're like, “I wish everybody could hear this,” right? This is right near the beginning of when podcasting was starting to take off. It's like, well, everybody can hear this. We started doing some of our key interviews for the magazine is for the podcast. That was why. I thought it was so important, not just for us to take the information and drill it down into an article and pull a few quotes, but for people to hear how passionate these people are about this, how important it is, how detailed the information was. We started there and then we – when we quit doing the print magazine, we still have the website, which puts out original content on a regular basis, and we still have a newsletter, which puts out independent original content. If you guys are not signed up for the newsletter, you need to. Go to livehappy.com and sign up. Free to everybody. Please, take the opportunity to do that. As we started to move from the print format into a more digital format, the podcast also evolved into being the key content, where we used to do a feature article. Now, we do a feature podcast, is the best way to know how to describe it. We're still have all the same great content we had, but in a way that's more accessible. Frankly, I think in a way that broadened our audience. Because I think, when we were doing the print magazine, people didn't really understand it was for everybody necessarily, that it was a little bit more of a science-heavy, because reading can sometimes be science heavy. It was a little less accessible to everybody. I think the podcast with most of them being 25 minutes or less, really, people can listen to that as they walk their dog, as they drive to work. It's two people talking, or more, but usually, two people talking and they get so much more out of it. Then, of course, we had the follow up materials on the website if people want to delve more into that topic. I just think it's made the content so much more accessible, and that evolution took place over time, but I'm really happy where we are right now and where we've ended up. It's been a phenomenal, I think eight years of podcasting? [0:22:10] PF: It is. Yeah. [0:22:12] DH: Eight years of podcasting. [0:22:12] PF: Hard to believe. [0:22:13] DH: Ten years of Live Happy. I'm getting old. What am I going to do next? [0:22:19] PF: We'll have virtual something. We'll have our avatars doing this for us, I guess. One thing that I've noticed with the podcast is sometimes, people will reach out because someone had sent them a podcast, because just as with our practices, not every episode is going to resonate with every person. Some things like, that's not really my thing. But then, especially like the pet loss episode is one that I know has been shared quite a bit and that's something – that's a great thing to have in your back pocket. Hey, your friend loses their pet, you just send them a link. I know firsthand of that having happened. There's other situations, like other episodes that we've had that people can just share and say, “Look, this spoke to me, because I know you're going through it and I thought you'd want to hear it.” I think, to me, that is really the power of podcasting. That's the power of the reach is to be able to just have that, to give to anybody at any time when they need it the most. [0:23:14] DH: I agree. I think, be able to share that. I think accessibility is key. [0:23:21] PF: We've had 10 years. We don't want to quit anytime soon. What do you think? What do you see for the next 10 years? How do you think we're going to grow and change? [0:23:30] DH: I think that as the world has changed, more people need this content. I think, our number one goal has always been reach. It's always been building a happiness movement. It's been building a group of people who really understand the power of things like gratitude, who really want to make a difference in their local communities and their families. For me, over the next 10 years, we're going to continue to try and reach people where they are, where they have the most access. Whatever is after podcasting, I'm sure we'll go into. Whatever is after the Internet, I'm sure we'll figure that out, too. One of the things we've discussed recently is in expanding our presence on social media, to reach people who aren't necessarily looking for podcasts, or looking online to go read an article and figuring out how to do that in a way that isn't just flippant, that isn't just, “Oh, that made me laugh,” but something that actually adds value to someone's life. We did something before called The Happiness Minute, it was in the wrong format. Maybe we bring that back and maybe that's a TikTok. Where my head spins is, how do we continue to get the message out? How do we continue to get this message to more people? How do we evolve Happy Acts to get the message to more people? How do we evolve, get more involvement? Because this is something anybody, whether they're two, or a hundred can participate in and can make a difference in the world. Our mission hasn't changed. Sometimes the medium changes, but we're going to continue to try and expand to reach more people in any way that we can. That's where I see us going in the next 10 years, and continuing to produce the fabulous content that we produce, that you help us produce, Paula. It's been a great ride so far, but we're just getting started. [0:25:14] PF: Yeah. Saddle up. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:25:21] PF: That was Live Happy CEO and Co-Founder, Deborah Heisz, talking about how we got here. If you'd like to read some of our great content, sign up for our free weekly newsletter, or follow us on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]