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Follow along with the transcript below for episode: The Healing Power of Hugging Cows With Ellie Laks [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:08.6] PF: Welcome to Happiness Unleashed, with your host, Brittany Darrenbacher, presented by Live Happy. If you’ve never thought of cows as intuitive healers, this episode just might change your mind. Ellie Laks is the founder of The Gentle Barn Foundation, a national organization that rescues and rehabilitates abused and discarded farm animals. She is the creator of Cow Hug Therapy and as she explains in her book by the same name, she has learned amazing lessons from these animals about life, death, and everything in between. She’s here today to share some of those lessons with us. So, let’s have a listen. [INTERVIEW]   [0:00:47.3] BD: Ellie, welcome to the show, I’m so excited you’re here. [0:00:50.9] EL: I’m so excited to be here. This is going to be the best conversation ever. [0:00:54.6] BD: I met Ellie recently. I went out to The Gentle Bar, my husband and I took a road trip to Nashville and we got to check this space out. This is a big question, like right out of the gate. [0:01:06.7] EL: I’m ready. [0:01:07.5] BD: You talk a lot about how growing up, you did not feel connected to other humans in the way that you did with nature and animals, and I just resonate with that so deeply and I know that our listeners feel the same way. Why do you think that is, that animals and nature just so innately feel like home and like safety to people like us? [0:01:31.1] EL: I love that question and I have spent a lifetime trying to figure that out because I had very loving parents. They took really good care of us and they loved us and so, you know, I’m not sitting here thinking, it’s anyone’s, you know, main fault. I just – when I look back in my childhood, I felt completely at home in the woods and lakes by my houses. I felt completely at home with my dog and my bird and the animals that shared our home that I brought home. I just felt like they saw me, they understood me and they accepted me as I am. I didn’t feel like I had to be someone else, I didn’t have to edit my speech, I didn’t have to modify my actions. I could just simply be me and I was a hundred percent accepted and somewhere along the line, I didn’t feel that way about people, and I don't know if it was the kids at school. I just saw so much bullying and so much judgment and criticism and so much cruelty that maybe that made me feel unsafe. But somewhere along the line, I felt like I had to always be an edited version of myself around people but a completely free and pure version of myself around animals, and I have a beautiful family, a husband, I have kids, and grandkids, I have beautiful, wonderful friends and coworkers that I love dearly, but they’re just something very special still, being beside an animal that I feel like the best version of myself, and I just feel home. [0:03:03.8] BD: I wanted to ask this question first because I think this really informs the conversation that we’re about to have, and it clearly informed your life’s work. Tell the listeners about The Gentle Barn, how this began, where they can find it. [0:03:18.1] EL: So, The Gentle Barn is a 25-year-old national organization located in Los Angeles California, Nashville Tennessee in Saint Louis Missouri. We very specifically taken animals that have nowhere else to go, because they’re too old, too sick, too injured, or too scared to be adoptable. We bring them in and put them through a very extensive rehabilitation program, and once they’re healed, we partner with them to heal people with the same stories of trauma. So, eventually, if the animal chooses to, they can partner with us to really hearts and change minds to who these animals are and to really do incredible work with people that are suffering from depression, anxiety, grief, trauma. People that are really suffering and words and talk therapy is just not cutting it, they can come and then they embrace of our beautiful animals, they can really find themselves. [0:04:08.2] BD: Yeah, and these are farm animals, and so for many people, and you know, I live in Kentucky and I was raised on farms where these animals were not considered sentient beings, were not considered equals, were not even looked at in the way that our dogs or our cats were, and so I just wonder what wisdom and insight you might be able to offer to our listeners that maybe grew up in like, similar scenarios that are really interested in being around animals and learning more about what farm animals have to offer and that it’s not a hierarchy, right? It’s – animals are not in hierarchy and we shouldn’t be them as such. [0:04:52.9] EL: Yeah. If anything, I think that animals are far superior to us. Far superior, and they have so much to teach us and so many ways to heal us, and if we could just stop doing what we’re doing to them and pay attention and listen, they would change us all, and at The Gentle Barn, they are changing humans every single day. It’s hard to connect with animals that are in survival mode, right? Like on animal agriculture, like on working farms, those animals know what’s going to befall them, they know that their babies are being taken away, they’re in survival mode every single day. So, it’s harder to connect with animals like that because they don’t know who to trust or how to trust but I mean, I would say, oh my God, find a sanctuary near you because there are so many sanctuaries popping up all over the country, or plan a trip to The Gentle Barn and come see who these animals really truly are. The way they celebrate birth, the way they grieve death, the way they get married and fall in love and break up and have fights and have drama and just like we do, who they really are when there is no trauma, when there is no fear when they’re safe and loved and respected to see who they are with each other and see who they are with us, oh my God. I mean, I filled a book with it, right? [0:06:06.8] BD: My husband and I, we came out to The Gentle Barn in Nashville and we’re animal lovers. We’ve experienced a lot of healing atmospheres with animals but that trip out there was incredible and to be able to experience Cow Hug Therapy, which we’re going to get into in a minute was next level but the animal that stands out to me the most, and you’ll have to remind me what this turkey’s name is, it’s mostly like a white, a beautiful white color. And I would just put my hands out and the turkey would walk up and just push its like chest, like its breast like, into my hand, and just stare at me, and it was a really profound moment of connection with this turkey that I’ve never had in my life. [0:06:51.5] EL: Was her name Spirit? [0:06:53.0] BD: Yes, yes. Spirit. [0:06:55.0] EL: Spirit’s very special, very-very-very special, and she takes people by surprise because people don’t think of turkeys a cuddly but in all three states, we have these remarkable cuddle turkeys who are all female and they will literally, just like you said, they will look in your eyes, they will just stand in such a humble, sweet way in front of you, they’ll put their wings out, and they will welcome you to cuddle them. And if you feel comfortably, you can sit on the ground in front of them, put one leg on either side of them, scooch up real close to their right here, kiss their little fuzzy pink heads, slide your hands under their wings, and stroke them and I’m sure she fell asleep in your lap, right? [0:07:34.6] BD: Yeah, it was pretty wonderful. [0:07:36.0] EL: Yeah, turkeys are remarkable. Male turkeys like to show off and be called handsome but female turkeys, once they feel safe, oh my God, they are such wonderful cuddlers, and I like to say that we have not lived life ‘till we’ve hugged cows or cuddled turkeys. [0:07:51.6] BD: Yes, cow hugs. Let’s talk about hugging cows. Wow, what is Cow Hug Therapy? [0:07:58.8] EL: So, Cow Hug Therapy is when hurting humans, no matter what they’re going through or what they’re feeling or what they’re struggling with, they can come to the gentle barn and book an hour-long Cow Hug Therapy session, where they get the cows to themselves for an entire hour, and they can either be gravitated to one particular cow and rest in their embrace or cry in their embrace for an entire hour. They can hug them all, they can ask us questions or they can just sit in the stillness and the quiet beside these gentle giants and find themselves. Cows, I think, all animals have so much for us but cows are very, very special in that they weigh 3,000 pounds. So, you don’t really ask them or train them, or teach them to do anything. It’s who they are organically. From the time that they have forgiven and let their past go and decided to trust humans, they incorporate us in their family. And they are so nurturing and gentle and kind to each other that when they incorporate us, they just extol the same beautiful energy, the beautiful healing, the embraces that they do for each other to us, and so when we’re infants, we can rest against our caregiver’s chest and hear their heartbeat, which slows down our own, rise and fall with their breathing, and eventually, our breathing can match theirs, and we feel tiny, small and vulnerable in a huge protective embrace. When we grow up, there’s really nothing that models that, except for Cow Hug Therapy. We are full-fledged adults, but we can go and we can feel like infants against these cows and hear their heartbeat and rise and fall with their breathing, and they wrap their necks around us and hold us. We can feel the energy of their love and their nurturing, without uttering one single word, closing down our left brain and opening our right brain. It’s a connection, it’s an energy and it’s a nurturing, that feels like we’re safe, that we’re whole, that we’re loved, that we’re not alone and we leave those embraces feeling healed and hopeful, in a way that I really can’t articulate with enough words. I just – people have to try it. When you come and you embrace these beautiful cows, and they rather embrace you, it’s a special brand of healing that’s unlike any other and you leave changed, and when I’m having a bad day, I’m really lucky to live at The Gentle Barn California location. [0:10:26.2] BD: Yeah. [0:10:26.9] EL: When I’m having a bad day, I go straight to the cows and they make everything better. They clear our minds of thought, they immerse us in present time, we feel grounded and centered and loved, and it’s just remarkable. [0:10:40.3] BD: How did you begin doing Cow Hug Therapy? Like, how did you coin the term and how did you get into this practice and like, writing this book, you know, bringing this to a broader audience? What’s the story behind that? [0:10:56.0] EL: Well, I was the very first recipient of Cow Hug Therapy. Back in 1999, we got our first cow, Buddha, and she was adorable and she was a fuzzy, red, and white cow and long white eyelashes and she was absolutely adorable, and we all fell instantly in love with her but very early on, I was doing my bedtime checks, just making sure that everybody was okay before I went to bed, and I pass by Buddha and kind of looked, kiss at her. You know, pat her on the head to say goodnight, and there was something about the way that she looked at me and she was like, “No-no-no, you need to stay a while.” So, I said, “Oh, okay.” So, I sat down beside her and I leaned against her just to kind of – for that camaraderie, and she wrapped her neck around me and held me, and I burst into tears because I didn’t realize how stoic I had been that day, and how much stress I was carrying on my shoulders. But I was also so incredibly touched by that unexpected show of affection. Animals have loved me my entire lives, they’ve saved my life when I was seven. I mean, I can’t say enough good things about animals, but I’ve never had an animal reach out and hug me for me. Like, she saw how much stress I was carrying, she saw how much I had done that day, and she was literally giving me a mom hug, and it changed my life. And I came to need those hugs every single solitary day and it wasn’t long before I realized there were other people in the world that needed those hugs too, and so I opened the phone book and I started calling around to drug and alcohol rehab centers, domestic violence shelters, war veteran centers, homeless shelters, really any agency that catered to hurting humans, and said, “You’ve got to bring your residents, you’ve got to bring your clients.” And they did. And we always started off by bringing the group to Buddha and everyone hugged Buddha, and she did the same thing. She either held still to kind of invite them to ground and center or she wrapped her neck around them and held them and she brought people to tears. She cracked the most offensive, the most cold, the most hardened people because of their stories and their life experiences. When they came in tough as nails, hardened, and cold and tough, she would crack them wide open and just expose them into vulnerable humble people. She changed so many lives and in her lifetime, she gave out 300,000 hugs. So, we’ve been doing Cow Hug Therapy for hurting humans since the day she hugged me 25 years ago but when we reopened after the pandemic, we realized that it wasn’t just hurting humans at facilities that needed this healing. It was all of us individuals, we were all affected, we are all impacted, we are all lonely or scared or stressed, or whatever we were doing and so, when we reopened from the pandemic instead of just working, I mean, everyone that came to The Gentle Barn, whether it be a private tour, field trip, or open to the public Sunday, obviously hugged Buddha, and all our subsequent cows but after the pandemic with the entire world hurting as individuals, we allowed anyone on their own by themselves to come out and experience Cow Hug Therapy. [0:13:57.9] BD: What can cows uniquely teach us? [0:14:00.7] EL: So, like I said, all animals are wonderful, all animals have something to teach us, and ways to heal us but there is something very unique about cows and I happen to believe that cows are literally who we should be when we awaken to love as a nation, as a people, there’s a lot of different animals and they’re all amazing, but I wouldn’t say, “Oh, people should be more like dogs” or “People should be more like horses.” But I am going to say us, as human beings, we need to be like cows. They are matriarchal led by the oldest and wisest female who uses her intuition, her sense of collaboration, and communication to really connect with her family and lead them to safety and care for them. They are vegan, so they harm no one. They are environmentally friendly, leaving a pasture better off when they leave than when they found it. They face their challenges head-on, they don’t run, they don’t fight, they just very peacefully lower their heads, look their challenge in the eye, and try to figure out how to work their way around it. Family is their most treasured and valued ethic. They would do anything for each other, they come together as a circle when someone gives birth. They come together in a circle when someone is passing away to pay their respects. They come together in a circle when someone is grieving. That community, that circle, the way they support one another is unlike any other species that I know, and they are a hundred percent inclusive. All the other animal species, their instinct when a newcomer comes in is to reject that newcomer and even drive them off violently. Cows are the only species that we have at The Gentle Barn that I can take a new cow anywhere any day, put them in the middle of the pasture, and the cows will say, “Oh, hello.” And the matriarch will say, “I’m the boss.” And then the newcomer will say, “Okay.” And then the youngsters will come and say, “Hey, you want to play?” And the newcomer will say, “Okay.” It is a totally peaceful transition with no introduction necessary. They are a hundred percent inclusive. They’ll avail of themselves to each other, they are there for each other, they are wise, they are intuitive, they trust their instincts, they practice self-care. They meditate every single day and they connect with one another every single morning after breakfast. It’s who we’re supposed to be and if you look back hundreds of years ago, we were more like that. We were matriarchal with the shaman and the medicine women leading tribes. We lived off of plant medicine and of the earth. We supported each other, we came together as community, we had ritual for birth and death. We were much more like cows then and we need to return to that now. [0:16:38.7] BD: I’d be curious what you would suggest to someone that maybe isn’t close to a Gentle Barn location but wants to learn more, wants to get involved, wants to be a better human, and learn more about animals in general, like what would you suggest their first steps be? [0:16:54.2] EL: Oh, I have so much to say about that. I mean, first of all, find a sanctuary near you and try to find a way to connect these majestic miraculous animals who have so much to teach us. Follow The Gentle Barn on all social media platforms, including YouTube, we have videos on YouTube of certain rescues and certain rehabilitations that will change your life just by watching them. And I would recommend that we all kind of try on or consider the idea that even though our Western society has put animals into certain boxes, here’s a box of animals we love, and here’s a box of animals that we eat, and here’s a box of animals that we wear, and here’s a box of animals that it’s totally okay to kill them. We’ve got all boxes and things for but the truth is that we’re all the same, though we come in different forms. And we all are the same and there is a way to connect, where we can really see the gifts, the talents, and the blessings that each of us are without seeing the separation, and when we look through that lens of love, oh my God, we grow, we evolve, we fall in love, we learn, and we become better for it. [0:18:06.5] BD: And I love the way in the book you describe the work that the cows are doing as really paying it forward when humans come in to see them, like alchemizing their pain into being of service to tend to humans and their pain. How can we as humans be of service to animals and pay it forward to them? [0:18:25.2] EL: I love that question. I think that the biggest most impactful, most powerful way that we can be of service to them and pay it forward to them is to go vegan. When we go vegan, we save 200 animals every single year, we save 1,100 gallons of water a day, which will end the drought. We save an acre of trees every year, which will combat deforestation, and we reduce our own risk of every western disease by 90%. So, I mean, it’s so impactful and powerful when someone makes that step. That’s the biggest way we can honor every living being on this planet and the planet itself, not to mention our own bodies. Volunteering at a sanctuary to help out is always a great idea, or to shelter, and if you can’t volunteer, then donate to a place like The Gentle Barn, where you're sponsoring an animal or enabling The Gentle Barn to save more animals, that literally are out there begging for help and having nowhere else to go. I think those are the top three, just doing those top three things. You know, a lot of people come to me and say, “Oh my God, it’s so amazing what you’re doing, I wish I could have my farm animal sanctuary, I wish I could start a sanctuary.” But you know, I live in an apartment and I have kids or I work and you know, it’s not possible, and I say to them, “Look, the people that actually do have the space, the time, and the wherewithal to start a sanctuary, great.” I mean, it’s great that I do this. I’m grateful every single day but if every one of us started a sanctuary, we’d all go under. It takes the people that are rolling up their sleeves in the trenches and then it takes the people that support them, it takes the people that volunteer with them. It takes the people that fund them, it takes the people that follow them. So, we would be nothing without the people around us that donate or volunteer or work here and lift us up that way. [0:20:08.5] BD: What do you hope that your life’s work with animals can teach those in future generations to come? Like, what impact imprint do you hope that The Gentle Barn and your life’s work will have on the future? [0:20:21.0] EL: The truth is that we are covering the earth up in cement. We are building buildings and cutting down trees and we’re removing animals from our neighborhoods, and so whereas hundreds of years ago, everyone pretty much lived on a farm or in nature. Most of us now don’t. We live in cities and we are estranged from animals and from nature, and future generations that don’t have that connection to nature and animals they’re going to continue destroying it, and we’re going to end up in real trouble. We have to maintain those connections, we have to create future generations that love animals, and that want to protect nature. We’re not going to have a planet if we continue destroying it. We will only have this home to live in if we continue protecting it and we can only protect her in future generations if those future generations are connected to animals and so, that’s why I started The Gentle Barn and why we keep going because it offers a space where the biggest city person can come and can be reminded who these animals are. Can find a connection with these animals and common language, and bring back to the city, the love and reverence for animals in nature and we need future generations to be able to advocate for this planet and for all her creatures, and we’re only going to do that if these future generations have a connection to these animals, and I’m really hoping that by visiting The Gentle Barn, hugging cows, cuddling turkeys, holding chickens, giving pigs tummy rubs, patting goats and sheep. Hearing these remarkable stories of resilience and creating those connections will once and for all, allow us as humanity to realize that we really are truly all the same and so, stop being so divisive, stop being so ostracizing, and start being more inclusive, more loving, more supportive, more collaborative. Let’s protect one another, let’s defend one another, let’s be each other’s voice, and let’s lift each other up so we can all thrive and we can all live, and we can all have that sense of well-being that we all deserve. [0:22:27.3] BD: Ellie, thank you so much for coming on the show. This conversation means so much to me and I love every ounce of knowledge that you have to share. [0:22:36.3] EL: Well, thank you so much for having me, I already feel so sad that our conversation has come to an end and I hope you all have me back sometime soon so we can connect again. [0:22:45.1] BD: Please, please. [END OF INTERVIEW]   [0:22:47.7] PF: That was Brittany Darrenbacher, talking with Ellie Laks, about Cow Hug Therapy. If you’d like to learn more about The Gentle Barn, check out Ellie’s book, Cow Hug Therapy, or follow her on social media, just visit our website at LiveHappy.com and click on this podcast tab, and of course, Brittany will be back here next month to talk more about how animals bring us joy, help us heal, and can be some of our best teachers. So, until then, for everyone at Live Happy, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.   [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Make Your Summer Fun Last All Fall [EPISODE] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 481 of Live Happy Now. As students and their teachers head back to school, summer is ending, but that doesn't mean our summer of fun has to. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and two months ago, we launched Live Happy's eight-week summer of fun email course with organizational psychologist, Mike Rucker. Many of our listeners signed up to get a weekly reminder of how to add more fun to their summer. This week, Mike is back to talk about how we can take what we've learned about having fun and make it last all through the fall and winter. Let's have a listen. Mike, welcome back to Live Happy Now. [0:00:41] MR: Thanks for having me back. It's always a pleasure. [0:00:43] PF: Hey. So, we are wrapping up a summer of fun, but that doesn't mean we have to quit having fun, I guess. [0:00:49] MR: Absolutely [0:00:51] PF: So, I have really enjoyed this whole campaign that we did. I think one thing that happens with summer, we can get caught in one of two traps, and this is like, this is my fun time, or we're still so busy that we feel cheated out of summer fun. We have it in our heads from the time we are kids, because that's, hey, we're out of school, that's when we're supposed to have fun. Then. we become adults, and it's like, "Well, wait a minute. I'm not having much fun. I'm working every day. I'm doing all these things." That's what I loved about the summer, a fun series. It was a reminder of, you can build fun into your life in simple, small ways, and it is incrementally adding up and contributing to building joy into your life. [0:01:36] MR: Yes. One of the other things that I found fascinating just recently – well, not recently. I think recently, I had this awakening, but it was because there's been a plethora over the last four to six weeks, and maybe some of it came in through this program. But just how time poor working moms are. So, that particular persona in general are doing so much to organize the fun of their kids going into this summer. That when it comes time to think about themselves, like that amount of energy is already expended on others, even though they still wanted to enjoy their time too, because there is that opportunity yet. Instead of planning somewhat for themselves, they've given it all away for others to make sure the kind of proverbial leaders eat last. But oftentimes, when you don't have anything left, or you're like, "Okay, everyone, I just want to rest now." What a shame, because you still have those opportunities, especially if the folks that you generally care for are at away camps or whatnot. So, having that foresight, something as simple as the fun file that we talked about early in the series, so that you have premeditated, like, "Wait a second, there are a few things I want to do or there are a few friends I want to catch up with." Instead of what happens all too often. We always say it's not going to right, but comedians abound talk about this. Three months will pass and be like, "Oh. Well, that didn't happen, maybe next summer." I mean, it's just a shame, when all it would have taken is just a few minutes to get that momentum going. I think that's what we really tried to do here, just those primes can be all it takes. [0:03:18] PF: Yes. You bring up such a good point, because especially working moms. It's funny because we have an episode coming up next week about our invisible jobs, and it really deals with that how we're working full time. But then, we also have these invisible jobs at home, and we're exhausted by the end of the week. So, even when you do have that opportunity for fun, you might turn it down just because you feel so depleted. I think what your email series really does is when you commit to it, then, especially mothers are good at not breaking commitments. It's easier to break a commitment with yourself, but if you have made that commitment with a friend, we're going to do this, then you're going to go out. It's amazing how much it does fill you up when you go out and eat. As tired as you are or as much as you're saying, "I've got all these other things to do", it really does fill you up to go out and do those things and discover your fun habit. [0:04:10] MR: Yes. We made it clear when we first connected that the idea isn't to over prescribe your schedule. So, this isn't meant to add on. It's just so many folks do find themselves depleted, so they choose poor forms of leisure, because they essentially just want to displace that discomfort. It just wasn't that great. So, let me do something that doesn't really fill me up, but at least just pacifies the time. What we know is, even though it takes a little bit of effort, similar to kind of beginning exercise. When you do find a few things that are enjoyable within the balance of the cadence of your life, you actually have more energy later. That generally happens quickly. So, I find folks that kind of – especially if they're picking up an old hobby that they were good. That first week sometimes can actually not be that fun, because they're like, "Oh my gosh. I used to be so good at the guitar." But if you get past that first week. I mean, I can't even think of an exception that makes the rule where folks were happy. This isn't just conjecture, anecdotal from the folks I've worked with, researchers in this area. I often cite Cassidy Holmes, have looked at folks that do this, and then the hedonic flexibility principle supports this as well. Almost always, you go back and check in. You're glad you did it. You feel invigorated. There's still be an end. The classic example that 40-year-olds like to leave the party at 10, that's fine. I mean, we should all get her sleep too. But so many of us aren't doing it because we're afraid. Like, "Oh, I don't want to stay out till two in the morning." When you flex your agency, and autonomy, and actually enjoy your life, but in the confounds of the way that you want to organize, then you start to feel good about your days, and that has this ripple effect. So, it's not just for you. So, if you're like, "Okay. Well, that's fine, but I feel this sense of guilt because I still want to serve others, serve my family." Whether you're a volunteer, or in a domestic partnership, the best way to show up is if you're actually enjoying what you're doing. There's this concept called social contagion, where it's not just about you, it's about being happy when you're in the presence of others too, because that's contagious. [0:06:24] PF: Yes. I think some of the actions that you gave us to do really helped us, like you talked about volunteer, do these things to get out, and make those social connections. That's really, really important. As you said, the ripple effect that we have when we start implementing these actions into our lives and then make them a habit, it really does change things for us and for everyone around us. [0:06:47] MR: Yes. We can set a low bar for volunteering. It's always these thing, like, "Is it going to tell me to stop watching television?" or "Do I have to go pick up trash on the highway?" Volunteering can just be going to – you're paying the price of a gala, where the whole thing is set up to be entertainment, but you feel like you're also contributing. So, when you have that connection to something outside of yourself, so the hedonic sort of pleasure of it is also rooted in knowing you're doing something good, then you get double benefit. Instead of something where it's like, you're just doing it for the sake of doing it. Oftentimes, that can be helpful. But some folks, it really does create what we call a moral injury. Because you're like, "Oh, well, that was sort of a waste." Again, I could argue that it's not, but if that does kind of create moral damage, then go do something that's really enjoyable, that also makes you feel good about the purpose of the particular event. I just like to put that there, because people hear volunteering, and they think that it's going to be a work. and it doesn't have to be. You can lower the bar there. [0:07:52] PF: That's right. That's a great point to make. As I was receiving these emails, as I was looking at them, I wondered if you had one particular fun habit that is your favorite, I guess, your go-to. What is that? [0:08:03] MR: For me, I've been really playing with this idea of healthy hedonism. So, I was really turned off by – again, I'm not on social media that much, but my – kids are kids, so they are. So, I got introduced to this idea of hard 75. Are you familiar with this? It's a trend on social media. where people were doing these very hardcore regimens to better themselves? So, it was like, all the things that you hear from folks like Huberman, but stacked in a crazy way. I wake up, I drink water, then I make sure I meditate for 30 minutes. Just things that essentially are almost impossible if you work at all. Okay, this is bananas. So, I'm working on this concept, it's sort of that anti-thesis to that, where, how can you add enjoyable aspects to the things that you want to get done? So, that's really been my fun habit for the summer is, again, in line with activity bundling, which I talk about in the book. How can I make elements of things I probably should be doing a lot more enjoyable so that I do do them? So, that's really been my "fun habit," and it's been really paying off. Because the thing is, when you get into that mode, again, the geeky term is valence. But when we enjoy something, we're also drawn to it within reason. So, it's kind of putting accelerant on an upward spiral that I talk about. So, I've been really having a lot of fun, working out with people that I enjoy, planning hiking dates with one of my friends here to make sure that I get out in nature. But quite frankly, I almost forget it, because I really enjoy the conversation with this particular gentleman. So, those types of things really just – taking my own advice, but then doing it through the lens of betterment as well. [0:09:53] PF: I like that. [SPONSOR MESSAGE]   [0:09:54] PF: This episode of Live Happy Now is brought to you by BetterHelp. We'll be right back with the show. But right now, I'd like to take a moment to talk about self-care. Self-care is so important, especially during stressful times, but even when we know that, it's often hard to make time for it. It seems like there are so many other things that take over our calendars and we end up making time for everyone but ourselves. One way to practice self-care is through therapy, and that's where BetterHelp comes in. Therapy is a great way to discover new coping skills if you're feeling stressed and overwhelmed, and it can also teach you how to give yourself more of what you need to become the best version of yourself. If you're thinking about starting therapy, I encourage you to check out BetterHelp. Because it's online, it's completely flexible and works with your schedule. All you have to do is fill out a brief form to be matched with a licensed therapist. You never have to skip your therapy day with BetterHelp. So, visit betterhelp.com/livehappy today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/livehappy. Now, let's get back to the show. [EPISODE CONTINUES]   [0:11:08] PF: What if it's things that you don't enjoy that have to be done, like things around the house, things in your yard. I mean, summer times, it's prime time for us to do all these home improvements, get these projects done. Again, that eats into our leisure time, our fun time. So, how do you do tasks like that and make them more enjoyable? [0:11:29] MR: Yes. Anyone that's heard me talk is probably sick of this, because I talk about it ad nauseum. But anyone familiar with James Clears' work knows this well too. There's this concept of temptation bundling, and so, all I do is throw on 90s hip-hop, because I can't listen to it with my kids, because that would be a whole sidebar where I'm baffled about what gets through the parental filters of – now that everything is a story or – yes, I'm not going to listen to N.W.A with a nine and a 13-year-old in the house. So, I actually look forward to going out and doing stuff, which I didn't before, because it's my time to be able to get to enjoy that music. Since I pair that, it's really fun memories folks back at home. Not only am I enjoying the music, but oftentimes, it brings back these really fun memories I had with friends in my hometown. [0:12:21] PF: That's an excellent way to do it. I love that. [0:12:23] MR: It's funny because you say it out loud and people are like, "Really? Fun is just adding enjoyable elements to my environment." That's exactly what it is. [0:12:33] PF: It's not a task, it's not something we have to go out, and perform.   [0:12:37] MR: Yes. Exactly.   [0:12:38] PF: It's just something we add in. [0:12:39] MR: And you could push it off. We also know that there's limits, so I think we talked about it last time. But in case we didn't, there is a threshold where this becomes dangerous, right? So, let's say you're writing a book. The deep work that you need to do should be without error, or you want it to be a really good end product. That, you don't want to couple with a comedy show running in the background, right? That's not a good idea. Yes, it might be more enjoyable, but the thing you're actually trying to accomplish is going to suffer. Mowing the lawn by listening to 90s hip-hop, or what we call Dad rock now in big sound [inaudible 0:13:18]. That's not going to harm mowing the lawn. So, I mean, you need to be careful, it's within reason. But we know there's a great study for, again, geeks like me that want to know the science. Katy Milkman did some work where folks who really like podcasts, she asked them to not listen to them until they went into the gym. What she found is, not only did the folks go into the gym more, but of course, they also enjoyed what they did. Because when you really are immense in something that's enjoyable, you can often forget the thing that you're actually supposed to do. So, it's a really useful tool, again, as long as you do it within reason. [0:13:56] PF: I love that. I was doing the email series as it came through, and I got so much out of it. One thing was that I realized things that I already had in place in my life, I wasn't necessarily even putting in the fun column. I wasn't even attributing it to that. So, I think that's one thing it did for me, was gave me that intentionality and that visibility of like, "Oh, this is something I'm doing that is really good for me. One thing because we live out on a lake, and it's a really busy time during the summer, and everything is outdoors during that summer. Then, you had some great ideas of exploring local culture. There were several things that you gave, like now, I've already started this fall fun file, things like, this would be great to do you know when the weather changes, when we're not outside all the time. [0:14:45] MR: Yes. I think that's great method for extending the value if you did go through the course. Or even if you didn't, I mean, a fun file is a pretty pedestrian entry way into this work. Again, even though it sounds easy, so many of us don't do it. But if you just spend a few minutes thinking about what are some of the things that I'd like to enjoy, and I found that for me, it didn't work, so I maybe left it out. But I'm finding that I'm the exception, not the rule. Have that list right on your desk, or by your bed stand. Because then, it serves as a moniker, like, "Oh, yeah, I haven't looked at this for a week and I haven't scheduled anything." Again, the list should be short. We talk about it in the course, no more than 15 things and things that you can do. And if you haven't crossed one off yet after two weeks, it's going to nag at you. Like, wait a second. Two weeks have gone by and I haven't done one thing fun. That's a problem. Let's figure out how to sort that out. So, it really is reclaiming that agency and autonomy we all have. But oftentimes, we just forget about it because we get into our routines and we let time pass by. One of the crux that we didn't talk about, just because it was really a summary course is, the underlying principle here really is attention. In the book, I cite work by Matthew Killingsworth. We know people that kind of get stuck in this mode of mind wandering all the time, even if they are doing things you know that, to your point, might have been enjoyable if they had kind of been mindfully doing them. They're not really enjoying life. They're just kind of on autopilot. So, some of this is bringing attention to, wait a second, I can do the things that I want. Maybe not all the time, but I certainly can integrate some of that into my life. So, many of us just don't do that, especially the ones kind of stuck in the sandwich generation, as it were. [0:16:36] PF: Another thing that this did for me, you talk about social connections and maybe doing a game night, things like that. So, we have a couple in Nashville that we get together with about once a month. It's very loose, like, "Hey, what you guys doing?" So, we had gotten together, and we did this, one of those murder mystery games.   [0:16:52] MR: Nice.   [0:16:52] PF: I had such a great time. Then, I had just seen your email on talking about that, plan a game night. So, what we've done is we went through and we committed to, like every month, getting that, we're switching off who gets the game, and doing that once a month. So now, it's not just like, "Hey, what are you guys doing? When should we get together?" It's on the calendar, we know we're going to see them, and then becomes a priority. It's also the anticipatory saver, and you're looking forward to seeing them. You're looking forward to this month's game, things like that. It really was – it reframed how we were approaching our time together with them. [0:17:27] MR: That's so cool. I think one of the benefits of that too is, if you talk to an introvert and you say, "Let's go to dinner theater." They're like, "Ah." Because it's a bunch of people they don't know. But I haven't hosted one personally yet, but I have been fortunate enough to go to a few over the last year. When it's eight people that that introvert knows, oh my gosh, because – like they don't have the opportunity to flex that because they don't want to be around people they don't know. But if it's people they trust, they're some of the most theatrical, they turn into characters around like, "Wait. What's happening right now?"   [0:18:06] PF: Who are you?   [0:18:07] MR: I like when it's in an intimate setting, because it really is more inclusive than – paying six of your friends and saying, "Hey, let's go do this in a public sort of setting," which might not be as fun for everyone. [0:18:20] PF: Yes, that's a great thing to keep in mind. We have talked about – this isn't just a summer thing, this, you can use anytime. What I love is, it kind of – you've given us this toolkit of sorts to explore fun, to bring fun into our lives. So, what should someone do if they feel themselves slipping into fall and winter. The days get shorter and darker, and they feel themselves losing that sense of fun. What kind of things can they do as kind of a quick restart? [0:18:49] MR: Yes. I think you just want to start from the beginning. If you have a list that you've already done, figure out how you can get it on your schedule. The two main tools that are kind of at the starting line are behavioral concepts, premeditation, and pre commitment. So, if your list is kind of dwindled, or you look at it and, "You know what? This wasn't right, maybe I should kind of restructure it, start there, get the list, and then just make sure something gets on the calendar. There's always someone that's like, "Well, what happens if I can't do either one of those two?" Reach out to a fun friend. I mean, that is sort of rip cord, and they will always pull you out. If you at least have the strength to go, "I want to add a little bit more fun, you're always doing something fun. Is there anything that I could tag along with?" Again, I've never heard someone say, "No, I don't want you to have fun." [0:19:43] PF: No, this is my fun. You'll find it around. [0:19:44] MR: Yes. Those type of people, generally are the more the merrier type folks. They are like, "God, yes. Thank you. I should have invited you" is generally what you'll heat. That meant, it's the one, two, three. If you haven't done the fun file, think about what it is you want to do. Maybe let it percolate a little bit, because oftentimes, at first blush, you'll go back and go, "Ah" But if you can't come up with a list at all, that's kind of a separate issue. Then, just make sure you schedule a couple things. It's that simple. In all of my research, especially preparing for the book, the main difference between folks that are living a joyful life versus those that don't, and this is after 20. This isn't in collegiate. But anyone who's kind of left college that doesn't have as much autonomy over their time are the ones that deliberately schedule it, as unfun as that sounds. But it's such a small step, because once you get it on the calendar, it happens. [0:20:45] PF: How important is it for us to start thinking about that? Now, I'm thinking I've got a couple of friends who really suffer from seasonal affective disorder. Once we hit like end of October, there's a real skid into not wanting to do anything, not feeling like life is fun, it's a really challenging time for them. So, how important is it for us to plan ahead on that, knowing if we have that issue, knowing that that's going to be a problem? [0:21:12] MR: Yeah, I want to be really careful again. As you know, my background is organizational psychology, and that is a real disorder. I mean, I have a light right in front of me, so I know what clinically can be helpful. So, I don't want to suggest that precommitment is going to necessarily mitigate that, because it is a clinical condition. With the preface of that, I do think it's helpful that if you have things to do, it generally indexes fun memories that can be used as resilience. I certainly benefited from that when I was in a malaise for a different reason, for losing my brother. So, you can be in a place where you don't necessarily identify as happy or joyful because of a biological predisposition or a big life change, like a divorce, or the loss of a loved one. And you can still organize your life in a way where you're finding activities that bring you joy, that create those positive valence states. What we know is that those indexes and memories, one, again, create this kind of tapestry that will help most people with resilience. But two, it reminds you, you have agency and the autonomy, and to bring joy into your life, even during times where you find it more difficult. [0:22:34] PF: That's fantastic. So, I know we have to let you go, but I just had one last question, and that is, what do you hope that everyone gets out of this, out of doing this summer of fun series? [0:22:43] MR: Yes. I hope it kind of slingshot themselves into fall, the ability to create a lot more joy in their life. I think so many of us just need that break in our routine and that reminder that like, "Wait a second, I do have more control." So, I colorfully call it a bias towards fun. Just remember, life is kind of like going down a river, and there's no way that we can completely control where the river is going to take us. Sometimes it's going to pull us to the shitty side, but we have a lot more aptitude to be able to kind of steer it so that we have this pull to the better side, by making choices. And again, applying that attention to things that we do. At the end of the day, it's really just mindfulness repackaged, but in a way that where we're using hedonic tone, the ability to bring joy into our life in a way that makes things more enjoyable. Then, also, hopefully, leads to betterment in this upward spiral, because we realize, like, wait a second, this is abundant, and I can always call it in. Even on the days where I get punched in my face. [0:23:51] PF: Exactly. It's like that Owl City song says, you can't stop the waves, so learn how to surf.   [0:23:56] MR: Yes. I love that. [0:23:57] PF: Well, Mike, thank you so much. Thank you for doing this series, for coming on this journey with us and for sharing what you know.   [0:24:02] MR: Likewise, I'm really grateful.   [0:24:04] PF: I've really enjoyed this.   [0:24:05] MR: Yeah, it's been a blast. [OUTRO]   [0:24:11] PF: That was Mike Rucker, talking about how we can make our summer of fun last long after summer has ended. Remember, even though summer is just about out of here, you can still sign up for the summer of fun email series to get a weekly reminder of how to bring more fun into your life. If you'd like to learn more, be sure to visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Live Happy Now. If you aren't already receiving us every week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think. That's all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Standing Together in Divided Times With Rob Volpe [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 480 of Live Happy Now. As we head toward the end of summer, many of us are talking about this contentious election environment. But this week's guest is teaching us how to change the conversation using empathy. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm joined by Rob Volpe, an empathy activist, consultant, and author of Tell Me More About That: Solving the Empathy Crisis One Conversation at a Time. Rob's here to talk about how we can avoid some of the hazards that come with discussing differing opinions, particularly when it comes to politics, and how that can change the way we interact with one another for the long run. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:45] PF: Rob, welcome back to Live Happy Now. [00:00:48] RV: Paula, thank you. It's so great to be here. What an exciting time. [00:00:53] PF: I know and I always love talking with you because you have such wonderful insight. [00:00:57] RV: Oh, thank you. I love talking to you, too. [00:01:01] PF: It’s a love vest. As you know and as our listeners have probably figured out just from our little intro that I just did, there's been a lot of turmoil the last few weeks around politics. That’s why you and I need to talk. I wanted to start by you framing the situation and talking about how all this turmoil is affecting people and the conversations that they're having. [00:01:24] RV: Chaos probably defines the last four years, maybe eight years even, but in particular since the pandemic and all the things. Now, we're just in this constant churn of like what unexpected news event is going to happen next, whether you're thinking of politics or you're looking at geopolitical, Hamas attack in Israel, war in Gaza now and Ukraine, and all the things. It's really got people overloaded. There's too much that's going on. Nerves are frayed. I think there's pain and trauma from the pandemic, from the lockdown, from the murder of George Floyd, from January 6th, that election four years ago that we haven't fully processed either as a society or as individuals. All of these things just keep adding up, and it just becomes like, “Okay, what fresh hell is this?” When you're waking up and if you think about in the last couple months the number of never before seen events in presidential politics from a conviction of a former president to clearly something happening with a sitting president with cognitive ability and full presence at one of the most critical junctures, to assassination attempts, to Supreme Court rulings, to suddenly now, oh, one with the cognitive abilities got a moment of clarity and said, “Okay, I'm out. I'm not going to run this race.” Then you've got somebody new coming in, and there's only so much people can handle. You start to get this sense of overload and confusion, and it causes more stress. All of that stress actually then impacts how we talk to each other and how we interact. One of the things I keep hearing from people in a longitudinal study we do is how mean everybody's gotten. [00:03:22] PF: That's something I really wanted to talk about because I've not ever remembered a time when there was so much just animosity toward people that you know. Why are we treating each other like this, and how is it worth sacrificing these relationships? [00:03:40] RV: Yes. There's something about that anonymity or that distance that you get on social media. People just feel like they can say whatever without any sort of repercussion or responsibility to the other person. I think it's too easy to fire off quick thoughts, and then feelings end up getting hurt. But in short sentences, feeling tone never comes across very well. A lot of these issues are really huge, and you need to take the time to actually talk to somebody and listen and have a dialogue. Not just post things up on a wall basically. That's like the wall behind you. If people just wrote thoughts and put them up on Post-it notes and stuck them on the wall, that's what social media is in a digital format. [00:04:32] PF: How is it kind of reinforcing this mentality of, “I'm right. You're wrong. You need to listen to me.”? [00:04:39] RV: We've been living in a society for the last, God, how many years of decades really where it's winner takes all and zero sum game. People have been taught through reality television and all the other things around us, even in politics, that it's, “I'm right. You're wrong.” That’s not how the world works. You're never going to get there, reach compromise, figure out how to collaborate if you just dig your heels in and stay on one side versus the other. It's really detrimental to having productive conversations with people. [00:05:21] PF: You wrote a blog post called Divided, We Stand, and that is part of what sparked me wanting to have this conversation with you. We're going to share it on the Live Happy website. We're also going to put it in our newsletter because you brought up such wonderful points. One thing that you shared was that there was a survey that shows 62% of adults in the US consider our inability to overcome our differences opinion as one of their biggest concerns. If we are so concerned about it, why are we still taking these approaches? Why aren't we working to bridge that gap, but we're just seeming to dig a divide that's deeper? [00:05:59] RV: Well, because they haven't listened to this podcast or read that blog post yet, Paula. [00:06:03] PF: Here we go. Well, we're going to change that, aren't we? [00:06:06] RV: Honestly, it's because we don't know what to do, and that's part of what with Divided, We Stand and some of the other posts I've been doing, I'm really trying to help people understand and give them the tools so that they can have more productive conversations with other people and realize that, hey, at the root of it all, we want to be happy. We want to have the freedom to live our lives. We don't want a lot of interference one way or the other. We want to just exist. How do we work together to make that happen? It takes communication. We've got to turn that paradigm around where it isn't winner takes all. It's united we all win, and how do we actually do that? [00:06:52] PF: Oftentimes, we can start a conversation with every intention of, okay, I'm going to listen, and I'm going to be calm. I'm going to be cool and collected. Then I'm going to logically present why I feel the way I do. Shocker, that's not how the conversation goes. [00:07:09] RV: Yes. It's really hard. Every conversation that you go into with somebody, you're carrying all the triggers from your past experiences with them. A lot of these situations are coming up with a friend from high school that you've known for 20, 30 years, a family member. There's a lot of emotional baggage, if you would, that goes along with that, and so it can be very easy to get triggered by that. Then, yes, that's when the conversation goes off the rails. What I wrote about in Divided, We Stand is the idea to keep in mind where – remember the human element. Remember that this is a person that you in theory care about on some level, and treat them with that sort of respect. Remember as well that all these issues that we're talking about out today in politics are highly personal. Someone is really affected by this, whether it's immigration-related issues, whether it's about access to puberty-blocking medications for trans-identifying kids, whether it's access to reproductive health and abortion rights. This really affects people's lives and very deeply. Some people it doesn't and they may be having more of a theoretical argument about it. A man arguing with a woman about abortion access, who's most affected by that? The woman. So you have to keep that in mind. These are really personal issues. Of course, when they're that personal, they're going to get really heated very easily. How do you keep things at a more intellectual but no less passionate level, if that makes sense? [00:08:57] PF: It does and I know you use empathy. You are now, Rob, going to give us the million-dollar answer of how we do that. How do we keep it from getting heated and raw and vicious? [00:09:11] RV: Well, Paula, are you ready to take a curious breath? [00:09:14] PF: I love your curious breath. Tell us about the curious breath. This is the thing. When I do trainings around empathy, hands down – I have the five steps to empathy is kind of the framework. But before you even take a step, you've got actually take a curious breath to get yourself into that mind space. I include that in all of my trainings, and that's the thing people come away with like, “What was the most useful thing?” They're like, “Oh, it's the curious breath. I'm going to just do that over and over again.” Then I hear back like, “Oh, yes. I was taking a curious breath, and it helped me see that sales negotiation differently. It helped me interact with my child differently. It's useful everywhere.” The idea behind the curious breath is that, cognitively, there is a space. There's a gap between stimulus. Somebody's saying something to you, and then your reaction to it. Neurologically, those two things do not actually touch. There's a little tiny gap that's very, very small, but it's there. The goal is to try to get into that space and widen it so that you can actually decide how to respond rather than react to someone. Clap back to somebody that said something to you. That's a reaction where if you take a curious breath, it gives you the space to actually respond. The beautiful thing is the breath is actually a big inhale and exhale. If you can imagine, as you take that big inhale, you're going to feel your lungs press against your rib cage. When you're taking one of those big deep breaths and you're feeling everything kind of push out, imagine that that's what's also happening in your head. When you do that big inhale and then that exhale, it actually makes space. Just like it's made space in your lungs, it's making space in your head. Shall we try one together? [00:11:10] PF: Let's do this. [00:11:11] RV: Okay, okay. We're going to take a nice – and everybody please, everyone listening, please join us. You're just going to take a nice big inhale on three. One, two, three. Maybe hold it there at the top for a second. Feel the ribs pressing and then exhale. Let's do one more just to make sure we got it. I want to pull people's attention to what's happening with your lungs and your rib cage and just make sure the breath is deep enough that you're feeling that expansion happening. Here we go. One, two, three. Inhaling, hold it for one, and exhale. This does have the ability to calm our nervous system as well a bit. That's why in yoga and other practices, breathing is so important. That calming actually helps also, I think, create space in the mind. That's the benefit of a curious breath. If you're in a conversation and somebody says something and it's just got you, “Oh, my God. I want to rip their –” Pause because you're reacting in that scenario. Pause. Just take a breath, and that's going to give you the space to decide how you're going to respond. You can even then use some filler words to give yourself even more time. Say, “That's an interesting point you brought up. Huh, let me think about this.” You’re breathing all the way through all of that moments. It’s, again, giving you a chance to figure out how to respond instead of just merely reacting. [00:12:50] PF: Now, do you have any tips for practicing that beforehand? Because just like you're not going to go play a game, you're not going to go play pickleball without practicing first. [00:13:02] RV: Absolutely. [00:13:02] PF: This kind of the same thing. It’s very unlikely that if you're putting that in your back pocket and waiting until that conversation takes place that you're going to be like, “Oh, wait. I'm supposed to take a curious breath, and then I'm going to do all these things.” How do you start incorporating that into activities that aren't potentially heated? [00:13:20] RV: Paula, that's a great question that you're asking. [00:13:23] PF: Why thank you, Rob. [00:13:24] RV: You're welcome. I just filled a little couple of seconds of time. I knew what I was going to say, but I'm filling that time as an example for people to like, “Hey, that gives me a sec to gather my thoughts and figure out what I'm going to say.” I think it's really important to that idea of practicing. If you're going into a conversation and it could be a family gathering or something and you know that person, Uncle Bill or whoever, no offense to the Bills in the world. But let's say Uncle Bill is coming, and he has a very different point of view. Ask yourself ahead of time like, “What if –” Well, first, if the conversation even comes up because you don't know that it will. But you can think, okay, if the conversation comes up, what am I hoping to get out of this? Is it even realistic that you're going to change their minds? Or is it really that you want acknowledgement that they see you as a person and they understand where you're coming from and, hopefully, that you're understanding where they're coming from. Identifying what that out is that you're looking for is really helpful. That helps you prepare. Then you can think about, okay, he's going to say – Uncle Bill's going to say this. Then how do you respond to that in a way that is going to help him see your perspective? An easy thing to do is to work into that conversation as you're responding. Uncle Bill said the thing. You're like, “Whoa.” You take in a curious breath. [00:15:04] PF: Or 16. [00:15:05] RV: Or 16 while you're saying, “Huh, thanks for sharing that, Uncle Bill. You know, I have to tell you that.” I just filled so that I can figure out what I'm going to say. Then you can say it like, “I have to say that I hope you can see where I'm coming from. By using that phrase I hope you can see where I'm coming from or I hope you can see how I'm feeling about this or my point of view. It's actually asking them to have empathy with you. You're setting it up to take this into a different place. You're not pundits on Fox or MSNBC or CNN debating or really yelling at each other. You're not doing that. You're actually asking to have more of a conversation and see me as the person that I am and how this is affecting me. [BREAK] [00:15:54] PF: This episode of Live Happy Now is brought to you by BetterHelp. We’ll be right back to talk more with Rob Volpe. But right now, I'd like to take a moment to talk about self-care. Self-care is so important, especially during stressful times. But even when we know that, it's often hard to make time for it. It seems like there are so many other things that take over our calendars, and we end up making time for everyone but ourselves. One way to practice self-care is through therapy, and that's where BetterHelp comes in. Therapy is a great way to discover new coping skills if you're feeling stressed and overwhelmed. It can also teach you how to give yourself more of what you need to become the best version of yourself. If you're thinking of starting therapy, I encourage you to check out BetterHelp. Because it's online, it's completely flexible and works with your schedule. All you have to do is fill out a brief form to be matched with a licensed therapist. You never have to skip your therapy day with BetterHelp, so visit betterhelp.com/livehappy today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, .com/livehappy. Now, let's get back to the show. [INTERVIEW RESUMED] [00:17:09] PF: How important is it for us to determine now to make up our mind, “These are people that I'm not going to have that conversation with because I know we disagree, and I don't want the turmoil.”? We have two situations on each side of my family. One is two family members to decided like we are just not going to agree on politics, so we won't talk about it. Then I have two family members who decided they would try to hash it out, and now they're not speaking to each other. It's been about three years. How do we make that decision of, yes, I have an opinion, and it's very important to me? It's not just an opinion. It's a belief, and it's very important to me, but it's not worth losing this relationship over. [00:17:57] RV: That's an individual decision for every person listening and then every person that they are thinking about. They may prioritize those relationships differently, depending on all the different situation, how close they are, if it's blood versus friend, and how tight the connection is, how old are they. If we're in hospice, it doesn't really matter. I don't need to have this discussion. Let’s focus on the ultimately much more important things which is appreciating your life in general. Anyway, you have to have that individual decision. I can't just tell people, “Oh, do it this way.” But you have to think about it. If you're like, “You know what? This relationship is valuable to me, but I don't want to get into it with them,” I think that's a fair conversation to have. Let them know how you feel and that, “We're on different sides of the political spectrum, but I love you dearly. You're very important to me. I don't want to get into a situation where this is going to tear our relationship apart because you're more important to me than these political issues,” or whatever the debate is. How do we move forward? Is there a code word we can come up with when we're veering into the that — [00:19:20] PF: We need a safe word. [00:19:22] RV: We need a safe word. We need a safety deposit box that we can just put all that crap into and come back to it. You can have that conversation so that both people know where the other person stands without getting into all the things. You can also have the conversations. Again, this is where the emotion comes into play and can you kind of pull yourself up out of. Take those curious breaths to pull yourself up out of that reaction. There's a woman I wrote about in one of the most recent blog posts. I wrote about a conversation I had with a woman in South Carolina. She’s part of this longitudinal study Navigating to a New Normal. We've been talking for four years. I talked to her on January 8th, 2021. She had a very different – I was traumatized by January 6th. That's one of the things that I have still not healed from, and I'm trying to figure out how to do that. She had a very different perspective and take on the whole thing when that was really hard. As we were moving into the conversation, this guy around was like, “All right. We were planning to talk about all the things.” But we ended up having a really good conversation that we didn't change each other's minds, but we shared – I asked questions on how her perspective. Because I've been talking to her for four years, I share a little bit more about myself and clarify. We had the conversation about JD Vance and the childless cat ladies. She's a mom of three kids. Her perspective, she's like, “Yes, I get that.” She's like, “I'm constantly thinking about my kids in the world that they're going to move into and all of that.” I said, “I hear you. I get that.” I as a childless cat dad of three cats, I still have nieces and nephews, and I do think about the world that I'm leaving maybe in relation to them but just the world in general and that my understanding of that. I was able to talk about that situation. I helped her see where I was coming from and say I acknowledged. Yes, I can see where parents would feel that way, and that was Illuminating for her. She was like, “Oh, okay.” She said, “I get it. I see your point.” That doesn't mean she's going to change her vote or anything, but we at least developed some empathy with each other. We understood each other's points of view. We agreed to disagree, but we kept it very kind of civil, if you would. We didn't get into a knockdown drag out. So, yes, you can do it, but you've got to choose how you're going to approach the conversation and if you're going to even have it. [00:22:02] PF: Once you do that, does that change how you then approach other conversations? Say you've had this successful conversation with somebody, and you are a little bit like, “Okay, I don't agree with you. But now, I do understand why you have that belief.” Does that then change how you approach others? [00:22:19] RV: Absolutely. Because then if you've got that understandings, let's say – let's go back. Let's bring Uncle Bill back into the conversation. [00:22:27] PF: Come on, Bill. Come on back. [00:22:28] RV: Bill's sitting down here, and we've had this good conversation, and he's – I've gotten some empathy. I understand where he's coming from now. If I go have a conversation with Aunt Sally on the other side of the family, who also seems to have that same belief, I can share. I may not want to name names, but I can share like, “You know, I've heard from other people that have that same belief that this is what's behind it, why they're feeling that way. How does that sit with you? Is that how – do you feel that way? How does that sit with you? What do you think of that?” Then you let them kind of respond. You're starting to go, “Oh, okay. This really is this sort of underlying belief system.” Then if you really want to do something about it, you can start to take that information and figure out what might persuade them, what might solve the problem in a way that we're all happy with it. Obviously, we're individuals in a much larger political situation. But if you think about other familial disputes or conflict with family or friends, you can use the same approach and apply the same principles. [00:23:43] PF: I love it. Now, I know I have to let you go, but I have one more thing you talk about that I really want to bring up. That is you brought up recently the point to stop othering people. Oh, I love this. How does it help when we stop referring to someone as being on the other side and instead we just accept them as having a different opinion? What change does that make? [00:24:07] RV: I hope people do take a moment to read Divided, We Stand because I do write about on the other side. An industry, a research industry colleague, Susan Fader, I want to give her credit. She reached out to me afterward, and I love hearing from people. Anyway, Susan reached out. She was like, “You know, word choice is important.” She really focuses on that in her work, and she's like, “When you say other, it immediately others them, and it creates that difference and distance, rather than they're just people with different viewpoints.” That was such a huge, “Oh, yes. Dang, I did it myself, and I'm an empathy activist.” They're not other. They're not aliens from another planet. They are human beings. They have a pulse. They have thoughts and feelings. You're going to find that you have things in common with them. It's just that you have some different viewpoints. It’s staying open to that and realizing that with people. Related to that and what else we were talking about, there's a chapter in my book called Fear, which was when I got to go to the NRA gun show and was there on behalf of a client to talk to people about why they have carry conceal permits. What I found is I really started to just be open. Not think of, “Oh, they're other. They're weird. They're gun [word: toting — inaudible 00:25:32] and everything.” Just be curious about their viewpoint and where they were coming from. The title of the chapter is Fear. As we kept talking, that's what was revealed was that they were afraid of the world that they live in, and they want to keep themselves safe. Similarly then, my Liberal Leftie friends here in San Francisco, as I was talking to them about the project and what I was hearing, it was the exact same issue for them. It's a scary world they happen to be afraid of people with guns because they don't know if they're trained or what they're going to do with it. It's like, “Oh, okay. We're all afraid. So how can we use that then? If we understand that we're all afraid, what's going to make us feel safe and secure in the situation? How do we collaborate and compromise?” That's how empathy can work in all of this. [00:26:17] PF: Tell me what kind of differences will we see in the next few months if we can learn to approach our conversations with calm and empathy. [00:26:27] RV: I think – so we were talking at the top of the show about that stress and the chaos and the frazzled nerves and the meanness. You're going to see a lot of that for yourself diffuse. That's going to dissipate a bit. You're going to have, hopefully, a calmer sort of presence and understanding of where people are coming from. It's giving you knowledge. Once you have knowledge, then you can actually do something about it. Hopefully, people will be able to also recognize what are the things that they can influence and what are the things they just need to let go and say, “That's how this person is, but at least I understand how they appear.” Or we have had a nice conversation with a code word where we're just not going to talk about these things, and we're going to talk about some other stuff. [00:27:16] PF: I love it. Rob, you always have such wonderful insight. I appreciate you taking time to sit down with me, and we'll be talking with you again I'm sure. In the meantime, we're going to run your Divided, We Stand blog post. Tell people how they can sign up for your newsletter. Thank you again. I appreciate you. [00:27:32] RV: Paula, thank you. It's always awesome. Just keep taking those curious breaths, and it will get us through this election madness. [00:27:40] PF: I love it. Talk to you soon. [00:27:42] RV: Okay. Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:27:47] PF: That was Rob Volpe, talking about how we can learn to listen and use empathy to better understand one another. If you'd like to learn more about Rob, follow him on social media, read his article, Divided, We stand, or check out his book, Tell Me More About That, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. While you’re there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Love Happy newsletter. Every week, we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That's all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: What’s Coming Up in Season 10 With Paula Felps and Deborah K. Heisz [EPISODE] [0:00:02] DH: Welcome to another episode of the Live Happy Now podcast. I'm Deborah Heisz, co-founder and CEO of Live Happy. I couldn't be more excited to be here with you today. In fact, today, as we wrap up Season 9 of Live Happy Now, we want to talk a little bit about what's coming up in Season 10. For those of you who are used to our regular podcast host, Paula Felps, she is on here as a guest today. We thought we'd flip things on its head a little bit, and let me interview her for a change because we got a lot of exciting things coming up. She works so hard to make Live Happy Now, the success that it has been, with our regular listeners, we've had more than six and a half million downloads, we've had nine years of tremendous success. We've got a massive library of great interviews, great information out there for you to tap into. If you're new to Live Happy Now, and we're excited that you're listening, and we just got a lot to talk about. We're coming up on our 10th season. So, you know, there's new podcasts launched every day, but we've been going at it for 10 years. Paula, tell us a little bit about what's coming up for Season 10? [0:01:04] PF: Well, first of all, thank you for the introduction. It feels so odd to be doing it this way, because you know, I like asking the questions, not answering them. But yes, so Season 10, we're really going to build on what we did in Season 9. As you know, we did some things differently, and you're a big part of that, because we introduced a couple of email courses that we had tried. We'd started that back in Season 8, we did one on pet loss, and that has done well. So, in Season 9, we did our shot at love email course for Valentine's Day. Then, of course, we're just wrapping up our – we're actually still in it, our summer of fun email course. So, because of the response we've had, we're going to be doing more of that. One of the things I'm really excited about is, we're working with a psychologist, Dr. Lauren Cook, and we're going to be presenting a four-part email series on election stress. I think that's something everyone's familiar with, everyone's failing in some way or another. So, that's one of the things I'm most excited about. We have a lot of great guests lined up, but I'm really excited about being able to do more with our email courses. [0:02:08] DH: So, we're a podcast first and foremost, Live Happy Now. We're about bringing you all of the information you need to craft the life you want to live a happier life. But as listening to Paula, you should picked up by now, we also have other avenues where you can connect with us, our email courses, our website, livehappy.com. If people don't know about our email courses, which I know we've talked about on the podcast before, where can they access the old ones or can they access the old ones? Where can they make sure that they are registered so that they can find out about the new ones and get access to those. [0:02:41] PF: We have our weekly newsletter. I appreciate everyone who subscribes to our newsletter, because we have an incredible following. I so appreciate the support that we've gained. So, you can just go to livehappy.com. In their drop-down box, there's a newsletter tab, you can click on that, subscribe for free, you'll get happiness in your inbox every week. We get our song of the week, which I always love picking that out for everyone every week and it always goes with the theme. So, you can start with our newsletter, and then our newsletter will also keep you informed when we have special courses. And on that same webpage where you can sign up for the newsletter, you'll see a list of our courses. So, you can just kind of scroll down, find one that works for you, and sign up for free. [0:03:23] DH: Well, enough of the commercial because I know a lot of people out there know, never enough of the commercial. But I know a lot of people out there are just podcast listeners, maybe they're listening to this podcast as they take their morning walk, or maybe they're listening to it as they're working around the house, maybe they're listening to it as they drive into work, which is actually how I listened to it. Don't feel like you have to do all the other stuff to get a lot of stuff out of the podcast. We have a lot of great topics and a lot of great guests on here. Paula, you mentioned something, and I'm so glad that there's a course coming with it, which is upcoming, which is just a dialogue on how to deal with the political election stress that really is hitting so many people right now. I'm really excited about that. I need to make sure that all of our listeners understand, Live Happy does not have a political point of view. That is not what we are about. You are entitled to whatever your political beliefs are, we are happy to have you as a listener, we're happy to have you engage with us because we're really all about allowing you to craft the life that you want, so that you can be happier. We aren't here interjecting our own thoughts or beliefs, which are myriad across the Live Happy organization. We have people of all political persuasions working on this particular product. But election stress is real. So, tell me a little bit about how live happy is going to be helping our listeners and people connect with us deal with that stress. [0:04:46] PF: So, the first part of any problem, as you know is recognizing it, and this all started because of Dr. Lauren Cook, who is the psychologist who is creating the course with us. Because of course, we always want to make sure that we are rooted in the science and the psychology of it. She specializes in working with Gen Z, which is another topic we're going to talk about. But she had noticed in her client base that particularly among Gen Z, there was so much trauma and tension already early in the year about what to do with the elections. So, she and I had a conversation about it, and that just kind of snowballed. I started talking with some other experts, who are also looking at it from different perspectives. I work with a man named Rob Volpe, he's out in San Francisco area. He works in the empathy space. He brought up something that is simple but genius. He said, "Even by saying the other side, we're creating a divide." He said, "We need to quit othering one another and stop looking at it. It's not another side, it's a different viewpoint." So, there's so many things I've learned already just from talking with the guests that we're going to have and getting this all lined up. So, I'm really excited, and I know that they're going to add so much to the conversation. The thing, just as with every episode we ever do, you may not agree with every guest, but there will be something. I look at Live Happy Now as a buffet table. Because when you go to the buffet table, you don't load up everything. Well, I hope not. You don't take everything from the table, but there's always something for you, that you can find that you can learn, you can nourish yourself with. [0:06:26] DH: Yes. I think this is a very, very important topic. Like I said, we don't have a political viewpoint for Live Happy at all. In fact, our viewpoint is that we would hope that people would come together. No matter what happens in this election cycle, at the end of it, we've all got to get on with our lives and do what we can to improve our communities around us, regardless of the outcome. I think it's very important for people to learn how to deal with that stress and deal with radically different viewpoints than the ones they personally held, and how they can continue to live their life and make a difference in the way they want to make a difference. Despite the fact that they may not always feel congruent with the people they're talking to. Then, really, when we're talking about political differences, that's what we're talking about. It's no different than religious differences. It's no different than any other fundamental belief that you hold that someone else a different fundamental belief that might appear or occasionally be in conflict to the ones you hold. We all need to get better at dealing with people who think differently than we do. It'll be a much happier world when we can have civil dialogue and civil discourse, and not other people. I love that, don't other people. Welcome people, listen, understand, have constructive dialogue, but move forward. I'm really excited for that discussion. I'm really excited to listen to everything that's been brought to the table, that we're going to be going over in the next couple of months. Because let's face it, we live in the United States, the next few months are going to be dominated. When you turn on your television, when you turn on your radio, when you turn on your computer, and you open up that browser, they're going to be dominated by election news. It's impossible to escape, and they're going to be dominated by people who share and people who directly oppose your opinion. I think it's really important to keep yourself mentally healthful through all of that. I find it really interesting that you brought up Generation Z, because the happiness report that came out in March, we've talked about this on this podcast before, what it showed us is Generation Z is fundamentally less happy than any other generation we have. Well, we haven't really looked at Generation Alpha yet for that, but they're fundamentally less happy than Generation X, than the millennials, than baby boomers. It really, I think, was shocking and surprising to everybody to have that outcome. So, I know we're doing some content on Generation Z. Tell us what you have planned, Paula? [0:08:54] PF: Well, that's going to be an ongoing conversation that we have. We're going to do something about once a month, where we deal with a topic that's relevant to Gen Z. Don't mistake this for a bit, to get Gen Z listeners, because this isn't – just like with any other rights movement, they aren't the ones that are going to make the change. It's the other people around them. It's the millennials, and the baby boomers, and Gen X are the ones that are going to make a difference for Gen Z, because we have to help change the way that they move through this world. So, those are some of the things that we look at, like what can we do, what is it that Gen Z is suffering from, and why is this. I see so many headlines where they're just like, "Well, it's because they're lazy. It's because they're on their phone." We as the adults in the room are not taking the time to really dive into what's driving their behavior. And until we do that, we can't help them. The fact is, they are our future, and how they move through the world is going to affect us later in life. So, again, we're all on the same ship, just as with the political beliefs. We're all in this together, and you can't wish that their side goes down because we're on the same ship. So, it's like, we rise or we sink together. So, we have to learn what it is that they need, why it is they see things differently, why they're so stressed out, and what we can do about it. If we don't change that, what does that mean for Generation Alpha? If each generation subsequently becomes less happy, we're not looking at very good outcomes for our grandchildren and their children. So, it's trite, but we need to be the change. [0:10:32] DH: We do, which isn't to say, we don't want Generation Z listeners. We do.   [0:10:37] PF: Exactly.   [0:10:38] DH: It's not just about us, but it's not just about our Gen X's, but it is everybody else. [SPONSOR MESSAGE] [0:10:44] PF: This episode of Live Happy Now is brought to you by BetterHelp. We'll be right back with the show. But I wanted to take a moment to talk about self-care. Self-care is so important, but even when we know that, it's often hard to make time for it. It seems like there are so many other things that take over our calendars, and we end up making time for everyone, but ourselves. One way to practice self-care is through therapy, and that's where BetterHelp comes in. Therapy is a great way to discover new coping skills if you're feeling stressed and overwhelmed, and it can also teach you how to give yourself more of what you need to become the best version of yourself. If you're thinking of starting therapy, I encourage you to check out BetterHelp. Because it's online, it's completely flexible and works with your schedule. All you have to do is fill out a brief form to be matched with a licensed therapist. You never have to skip a therapy day with BetterHelp, so visit betterhelp.com/livehappy today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/livehappy. As we enter the hottest month of the year, it's a great time to cool down, and Cozy Earth sheets can help make that happen. Thanks to their cutting-edge temperature regulating technology, Cozy Earth's bedding lets me stay cool and comfortable, even on the hottest of days. That means, I can wake up refreshed and ready for the day. Here's the best part, our exclusive offer for listeners like you gets you a 30% discount and a free item when you use a code, COZY HAPPY at cozyearth.com/livehappynow. I'll bet you'll love the unbeatable combination of softness and durability as much as I do. So, invest in your sleep health this summer and stay cool backed by Cozy Earth's 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty. Visit cozyearth.com/livehappynow today to unlock this special offer and optimize your sleep for better health. After you place your order, be sure to select podcast in the survey, and then select Live Happy Now in the drop-down menu that follows. Now, let's get back to the show. [EPISODE CONTINUES] [0:12:59] DH: I think this is a really important topic because I have Generation Z children, those are my children. I was surprised by the outcome of the World Happiness Report, because I don't find them to be less happy, but I do find them to be more fearful and more stressed about things. We weren't fearful or stressed about it all that I remember, at least my peer group wasn't in the 'eighties, dating myself. But in the eighties, we just seemed a little more risk taking, a little less fearful of going outside the lines, a little more, I guess, empowered to have control of our own lives than I see in Generation Z right now. I think part of the issue we have is they don't feel empowered to take control of their lives and to live. I think there's a little bit of helicopter parenting, I think it's a little bit of coddling, I think it's a little bit of sheltering. They were all impacted by the pandemic, and it's easy for us as adults to say while the world is getting back to normal. For them, that was normal. So now, there's a new normal. If you're only 18 years old, and you spent a year and a half year life, not leaving your house or your neighborhood, that's a very different life experience than I had. [0:14:10] PF: I cannot imagine having to spend any of my high school years holed up in my house. I can't. I mean, a curfew was hard enough to deal with. So, I can't even imagine. [0:14:21] DH: I have to be home by 11? What? But I can't imagine how different they're set up. I mean, it's so different. The world is so different. So, I think it's going to be a really interesting topic. [0:14:34] PF: Can I bring up too that this is a generation that consumes their news from social media feeds. The algorithms know something that is fearful is going to get the clicks. So, they are being fed in addition to everything that they've experienced, the trauma of the pandemic, and everything else. They're being fed such negative news. I know we've talked about this with you, and your son, and you talking differently with him about that. Just because it's presented that way doesn't mean you'll never have a house. It doesn't mean you'll never be able to afford things. But that is where so many in Gen Z are coming from. Well, what's more concerning to me than that, is that Generation Alpha, which is also being called Generation Glass, because they are the first generation that's raised completely on screens, they're going to have that same messaging as well. So, they're going to be even more entrenched in getting that news that is undermining their wellbeing. [0:15:35] DH: They are also the generation that, particularly the upper end of that generation that truly missed some relationship development time with the pandemic. I have a 12-year-old, and she's very comfortable never leaving the house, she's happy. For me, that's just bizarre. I mean, she goes in the backyard, in the front yard, and we have friends over, and she does get out of the house. I don't want you to think my child's a recluse, but she's perfectly happy if she doesn't. Which is very different than, even my older two. She's at the very upper end of that Generation Alpha. So, they're just now becoming able to voice who they are. It's going to be different, because it's always different. It's always surprising. [0:16:12] PF: Right. I think it's going to be quite an adventure for us, and really eye-opening to be so aware of what's going on, and what needs to be presented differently. I think we'll learn as much as they do. [0:16:26] DH: I do too. I think it's going to be a really good season. I mean, I love that we cover these topics, because we don't have the answers yet. It's always interesting to talk about the stuff that there's no answers to, because there's so much work to be done. And I know there's a lot of studying that's going to be done, there's going a lot of stuff that we don't even know that's going to be available to us next year that's going to be coming out. It's going to be a great year. Great Season 10, Paula. Ten years. Isn't that crazy? [0:16:53] PF: How did we do it. Here's what's funny, because as I was prepping for this, and I'm like, "Wow, 10." I couldn't even remember our first podcast. So, I went back and listened to it. It was you, and you're introducing the podcast, and it was really nostalgic, it was really touching for me, because there was such enthusiasm, and optimism, and trepidation too of like, what are we getting ourselves into, and what's going to happen. To listen to that, and your hope, and your expectations. Everyone should go back and listen to it if they haven't. It's like a 10-minute podcast introducing it. It made me so joyful to listen to that. Then, to be able to look back, 477 episodes later, and say, "Wow, we did all that and more." That was really touching. [0:17:45] DH: We have definitely evolved. I haven't listened to the first one probably in eight years.   [0:17:51] PF: You should.   [0:17:51] DH: Maybe longer. I should go back and listen to that. But I know we started as a lot of companies, we've been through the digital revolution, we started as a magazine company, printing and mailing magazines to your house. Then, we added our digital website, livehappy.com, which has also evolved over time. Then, we added the podcast, and the first episode in the podcast were all about, what was in the magazine, when you go back. Not the very first episode, but what was in the magazine. Then, over time, I get to be jealous now, because Paula gets to do all of the interviewing, she gets to be the one who gets to meet with all these fascinating people and discuss their ideas. But over time, it really has evolved into the center of our business. This podcast is now our primary function. Yes, our companion newsletter is amazing. If you don't subscribe, you should subscribe. I'm going to share a little bit, and this doesn't mean anything to anybody out there in the world who doesn't follow media, but it's not just that we have a lot of subscribers to our podcast, is that our open rate is triple an open rate. Meaning, the average open rate. Meaning, people get it and they want to read it. You can unsubscribe any time, it's completely free. But we have the newsletter, we have the podcast, we post new stuff on the website. It really has evolved into being something that I'm very proud of. I'm excited about what we do, and to know that it's still all about making your world a happier place, and giving you the tools that you need. And it's all still grounded in science, we're not making stuff up. I mean, sometimes –   [0:19:21] PF: Not often, anyway, no.   [0:19:23] DH: Not often. Usually we'll say, this is our opinion, and we have really no idea, but we think this may be what's going on. But we're not making stuff up. But it's still grounded in science, and I'm really proud of it, and I'm excited to be entering our 10th year. I'm going to be on as often as I can. I want to close by asking you, Paula, two questions. The first one is, what is your favorite recollection about being the podcast host? What is your favorite thing that you've been able to do from the seat and the role you play at Live Happy? [0:19:52] PF: Oh my gosh. That is probably the toughest question you could ask me. I cannot even put into words the way that it feels when I have a dynamic interview. I feel like it's how a musician must feel when they walk off the stage, and they've just had the crowd roar. There's a feeling that you get when you're interviewing people, and there's a flow, and insight that they're giving to you is so meaningful. You're like, if it means this to me, I know it's got to resonate with somebody else. That has been the most gratifying experience that anyone can imagine. [0:20:27] DH: I'm chuckling because for our related podcast and other podcast that I'm in, which is called, Built to Win. We just did an entire episode on flow, and getting into flow, and how that feels. It's fascinating you find your flow through dynamic dialogue, that's great. For those of you who don't know what flow is, we've got tons of stuff on it, we've done tons of stuff on it on Live Happy. It's kind of essential to achievement, it's essential to an overall sense of positive wellbeing. There's a great book on it. It's a little technical, but there's a lot of articles summarizing that book. It's by Mihaly Csikszentmihaly, and it's called Flow. You should check it out if you haven't already. It's one of the foundational books of really Live Happy and Live Happy Movement. So, you should check that out if you haven't. So, that was question number one. Question number two is, what are you most looking forward to in our future? What do you think is on the horizon that you're just super excited about? [0:21:23] PF: Oh, our newsletter. We have so much growth plan, and so many exciting things that we're going to be unveiling through our newsletter. People don't know this, but I also work with an International News Media Association, and have learned so much about how we can engage with people, and how we can really reach people through newsletters. It has kind of changed our whole platform of how we approach this. I'm super, super excited. I love our listeners, I love our audience, and I'm really eager to share all these great new things with them through the newsletter. [0:21:56] DH: Well, thank you, Paula. Thank you for letting me sit in the interviewer chair.   [0:22:00] PF: Any time.   [0:22:00] DH: Although I probably pontificated more than I used to, more than I needed to, I mean. But I'm super excited about this upcoming season. I'm honored that you still let me take credit for a lot of this, because Paula – for those of you don't know, Paula is the heart of what we do at Live Happy. She is the center of the wheel that keeps all the other folks moving, and I could not appreciate her more. It is a joy working with her, and it's also a joy being able to be a guest on the podcast when I'm a guest, and letting me host this time brings back old memories. I miss hosting, I missed that flow that you get from that dynamic conversation. But I love listening to them, so thank you so much for everything you do. [0:22:34] PF: Well, thank you, and we'll have you back to host again. [0:22:38] DH: All right. Take care, Paula. [END OF EPISODE] [0:22:44] PF: That one was Deborah Heisz, talking with me about what's in store for Season 10. If you'd like to learn more about what we're up to, or sign up for our weekly newsletter, or any of the email courses we talked about, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. If you aren't already receiving us ever week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think. That is all we have time for today. We will meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.   [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: How Music Shapes Your Mind With Renee Fleming   [INTRO] [00:00:04] PF: What’s up, everybody? This is Paula Felps, and you are listening to On a Positive Note. Renowned soprano, Renee Fleming has performed on some of the world's biggest stages, performing in operas, concert, theater, and film. And she was the first classical artist ever to sing the national anthem at the Super Bowl. But now, the five-time Grammy award winner is using her voice to help improve our wellbeing. For her new book, Music and Mind: Harnessing the Arts for Health and Wellness, Renee has curated a collection of essays from leading scientists, artists, musicians, creative arts therapists, educators, and healthcare providers about the powerful impact of music and arts on health and the human experience. She's here to talk about how this project came about and why she is so committed to sharing this message. [INTERVIEW]   [0:00:53] PF: Renee, thank you so much for joining me today.   [0:00:56] RF: Thank you, Paula. It's great to be with you.   [0:00:58] PF: Oh, it's such an honor to have you on the show. Most of us know you as an acclaimed and accomplished performer, but what our listeners may not know is that you are also an incredible advocate for the healing power of music. So, I was curious to know how you began discovering that.   [0:01:14] RF: It was basically, I'm a performing artist, so I've known my whole career that it has a powerful effect on people, the music. I've gotten so many letters and met so many people who have said, "Your music got me through cancer, or lost, or any number of things." But I was surprised to find that researchers were studying music in the brain. I was following all of that kind of armchair, newspaper reading bits about this type of research, because I had somatic pain that I was trying to unravel, and understand. Like, "Why my body was producing pain so that I wouldn't perform?" It was kind of a connection to stage fright, but a connection to performance pressure overall. So, that's how I stumble across this and then I met, Dr. Francis Collins at a dinner party, which he outlines in the introduction of the book. But it was extraordinary, because I had just started as advisor to the Kennedy Center, and I said, "You know, I think the audience would be incredibly interested in this. Do you think we could provide a platform for the science?" Because he had a new brand initiative at the National Institutes of Health, and he said, "We're discovering that music, and incredibly powerful, it activates all known mapped areas of the brain when we engage with music."   [0:02:34] PF: Do you think that it helps that you're coming from as a performer versus a scientist? Are people more willing to maybe listen to you or attend something that you're doing than if it was going to be an academic who is presenting on it?   [0:02:50] RF: Well, when I perform, doing a wonderful National Geographic program now, then I'm touring around, certainly the US, but I hope to get to other countries as well with it. I'll be in Paris with this project. So, they made this stunning film, and it goes with an album that I won a Grammy for last year, called Voice of Nature: The Anthropocene. But as I tour and perform, I offer to these performing arts venues, and programmers a presentation on Music and Mind. I bring the audience and they're actually cast with finding local researchers, healthcare providers, therapists, music therapists, art therapists. It's broader than music, although music has probably, I would say, the most research at this point. Because it was easier to measure than dance or visual art, but they're all powerful.   [0:03:41] PF: Is it a challenge to make it accessible to a general audience, or do you find that's pretty easy to do?   [0:03:47] RF: I would have thought so, but I'm the general audience. When I sat for two days at the National Institutes of Health, and heard ten-minute presentations in panels, two days of it by all the scientists and researchers. I thought, "I'm not going to get any of this" and I loved it, I ate it right up. I think we know intrinsically, and we know kind of instinctively that the arts have power. But now that science is vetting it, validating it, bringing a body if rigorous research to back it up, and paying for it. So, the NIH spent $40 million just on music and research, mostly neuroscience. It's incredible. And they're going to continue to spend money because there's a there there, and it is healing, and especially for a specific – at this point, we have some very proven tracks of the research. Then, they'll continue to kind of build on that.   [0:04:45] PF: Do you think that's going to help with funding arts in schools, because right now, that's a big challenge. I know I live near a small community that just got its band program cut, because they had to choose between football and band. So, do you think as we see more research and funding goes into that, is that going to change how schools and educators view it?   [0:05:04] RF: Well, there's a whole section on education in this, because research has studied the benefits of it. It shows that it improves focus, it improves attention in terms of kind of tuning out extreme noise. We know about self-discipline, obviously, and some of the things that come just with practice. But it also help kids with identity, with the sense of building their own individualness, and creativity, frankly. Steve Jobs wrote an incredible book on – actually, it was Walter Isaacson about him and creativity is all through it and the arts. All that all came from the arts. So, I definitely think that not only do we need arts education back in schools, because also, truancy is a huge issue. We're having real problems after the pandemic with kids not coming back to school. But if it's only S, and not STEM, you'll find that a lot of kids will just check out, because they need to be engaged in things they enjoy. So, yes, I feel strongly about that.   [0:06:07] PF: That's incredible.   [0:06:08] RF: I also think, frankly, the creative arts therapist would be a huge benefit to schools, to add them as adjunct to the arts educators. Because they're trained in pro-social training, they're in pro-social behaviors, they're trained in a very different way from, say, arts educators, and they would work really well together, and also lift morale for the whole thing.   [0:06:29] PF: Yes, because we talked so much right now about Gen Z and anxiety. Gen Alpha is going to be an extension of that. As your book really shows, there's so many ways that music could be the bomb that treats a lot of those issues.   [0:06:45] RF: Absolutely. I saw turnaround arts at work in DC. That was the initiative that uses all the arts. The class that I witnessed was visual art. What the teacher said to me – first of all, the kids were so quiet because they were so engaged in learning – this was second grade, learning about photosynthesis. They were drawing and it comes to life for them. If you marry the two things together, education works well. A couple of the teachers said to me, it really works for trauma, for kids who have all kinds of different kinds of trauma. Visual art therapy is extremely helpful. Music therapy is more of a one-on-one activity, or a therapist with a group. Of course, choirs. A lot of science now showing an incredible benefit by singing in choirs.   [0:07:32] PF: One thing that you did during the pandemic was your Music and Mind Live with Renee Fleming. That was an amazing program. We're going to include a link to that on the landing page for this, because it's still out there. People can still go. As you said, music helps with trauma, and COVID, the pandemic, the lockdown, that was a trauma for us collectively.   [0:07:55] RF: Definitely.   [0:07:55] PF: What is that? You received almost 700,000 streams on that program. I really encourage our listeners to go check this out. What do you think it was that resonated so well with everyone? Because I know it resonated with me, but what were you seeing?   [0:08:10] RF: It was viewed in 70 countries, so that was exciting too. I think it was the lockdown, actually that prompted people's interest, because we found out immediately that everyone's response to COVID and to isolation was to try to reach out creatively in all different kinds of ways, rooftops to windows. So, that was a real aha moment, I think for people, so this all really made sense, it hit home. People had to stop and kind of remember our roots.   [0:08:41] PF: As you studied it, is there anything that you found particularly surprising? What has been like the main learning point for you about what music is doing for us and can do?   [0:08:51] RF: Well, there were couple of things. I mean, one is, a researcher in the Midwest, Jacquelyn Kulinski, who discovered that singing two or three times a week improves vascular health in people with, to some degree of cardiac failure. That really surprised me. But the analysis is that, for this population who are often sedentary, they're probably not well enough to be running on a treadmill, singing is exercise. The pulmonary benefits of singing for lung COVID. That's sort of a no brainer, I get that, because we're all about breathing. Another recent one that surprised me was that, a study in the UK on post-partum depression. They found that, actually singing in a choir is more beneficial than any other activity to treat post-partum depression. The worst depression, the more it works.   [0:09:42] PF: Oh, interesting.   [0:09:44] RF: The countries in Europe are adopting this now. The World Health Organization is working on an initiative to get this adopted in other countries as an actual treatment.   [0:09:52] PF: That's amazing. We need to overhear. Less drugs and more music, right?   [0:09:57] RF: Absolutely, yes. Absolutely.   [0:10:00] PF: As you've learned all this, has it changed your relationship with music at all? Has it change how you perform or has it change what you listen to when you're not performing?   [0:10:08] RF: The answer is yes. This year, come January 1st, one of the last chapters in the book is about the NeuroArts Blueprint. I work very closely with them. Susan Magsamen and Ruth Katz have created an extraordinary visionary initiative that blends in all kind of aesthetic experiences. So, nature is number one. Nature, music is one of the large research areas, but it's also architecture, visual art, and dance, and more. I think the encouragement in her book, Your Brain on Art, that was a bestseller last year, is that we all can engage with art forms, whether it's doodling or watercolor, we can do anything. We can sing to ourselves. January 1st, I just said, "This is going to be a rough year. I am not going to get sucked into looking at my news feed all day. I am going to live in the NeuroArts Blueprint." So, I'm reading one novel after another. I'm going to plays. I'm going to concerts, opera, of course. I'm walking out in nature every day and I can't tell you how much happy I am. It really works.   [0:11:14] PF: That's amazing. That is something I think, well, Live Happy should be just sharing that like every week.   [0:11:20] RF: Thanks. Absolutely.   [0:11:21] PF: Because that is a big concern for people, the climate right now. By that, I mean, of course, the political climate, and the news that we're getting, and the division that's going on. And so, yes, to understand that within your book, there's actually a blueprint that tells us how we can avoid this is an incredible gift, like, run don't walk, go find it.   [0:11:42] RF: No question. The idea is that, of course, we want to be active and activate the things that we can that each of us as individuals are capable for any of those things that we care about. But you can't live it all day long. Most of us are not in a position to be able to do this. It's not our job, it's not our family. So therefore, you have to create some balance for yourself. Anyway, that's working for me.   [0:12:06] PF: That's incredible. Let's talk more about the book, because it is an incredible volume of work. It's essays from musicians, researchers, writers, educators, healthcare experts. How did the idea for the book come about? Because this is massive and I'm just trying to imagine sitting down and saying, "I'm going to have 600 pages, and it's non -academic."   [0:12:26] RF: So, I was inspired by David Rubenstein, who's the chairman of the Kennedy Center, who has a couple of TV shows and he decided at some point to take his interviews and publish them. He would edit them. I'm in his first book, which was about leadership. I thought, that is a great model. Forgetting the word out even more about the intersection of arts, and health, and the benefits of it. So, that was the idea. Of course, in my naive thinking, I thought, other people, they're going to write their chapters, and so, this will be easy. Took almost three years. It was a huge amount of work. Jason, who's on with us now, I couldn't have done it without him. I'm so proud of it. It's a really magical and unique book because there's nothing else like it. My publisher said, he was just so moved because he had no idea any of this was happening. There are stories of young people who are visionary, who've seen need in their communities, and they create incredible programs. Like Francisco Nunez in New York, who created a choir program to mix kids of different social strata. There's one in Philadelphia too, that's based on El Sistema, which is this incredible group, it's called Play on Philly. Then, you have all the artist chapters, Rosanne Cash's chapter [inaudible 0:13:47], an undiagnosed brain disorder that had to be operated on. And of course, for 10 years, people were telling her, "Well, I think you have headaches. I think it's probably hormonal." This is women in healthcare. So, her chapter is incredible, but they're really interesting. You can kind of just drop the needle on things that interest you. It's not a book that you would ever need to read cover to cover, unless you're that kind of person.   [0:14:12] PF: That's what I loved about it, because you can choose what speaks to you at that time and whatever kind of approach you want. If you want it to be sciency, we can certainly go find that. It's really something for everyone and meets the reader where they're at.   [0:14:28] RF: Really, if you're interested too, because some of the chapters are about movement disorders, really relate to people who have friends and family dealing with that, and/or Alzheimer's and dementias. It's fascinating to learn about the science. It starts with Evolution, Ani Patel, and then Dan Levitin, who also has a new book coming out in August, who does neuroanatomy for us. And Nina Kraus does hearing, why everything you wanted to know about how sound affects us. That sets it up, and then you can pick and choose your kind of subjects.   [0:15:01] PF: So, how did you decide who would participate in the book? Because you have an all-star cast there.   [0:15:06] RF: Some of its availability too, especially for the artist chapters, but everyone had to be related to this in some way. But I wanted to present a wide variety of – show the breadth of the field as it is now. In fact, if I were to do it now, I would probably make it even broader, and include more of the other art forms, because I know more people now. Every year, as I present and am involved, I meet people in different sectors who, again, are related. Health and wellness is so important to us right now, pain, some of the research on pain. I have a friend, actually, this is not in the book, but she had a type of aneurysm, a bleed in her brain, and was in excruciating pain from it, and couldn't – n lights, no looking at screens. The doctor said, "Listen to music." She discovered that the only music that helped her was Jimi Hendrix as loud as she could possibly play it. The minute the volume came down or it turned off, the pain came flooding back. So, I sent this, I thought that was surprising. I sent this to some of the neurologists who were working at the NIH. I said, "What do you make of this?" They sent me a study that had sort of brain photos, FMRI photos of excruciating pain in the brain, which was like circles, and red, and thick. Then, same person listening to music, and all the red was gone, all of the symptoms had subsided. So, to what degree, I don't know, but it was right there. There was a visual representation of how listening to music can affect pain.   [0:16:43] PF: I think people would be just absolutely amazed to find out how many different areas it affects. I think we all maybe have our own interests. I used to write about heart disease. I know some things about how music affects hearts. But with your book, it's almost like there is nothing that music doesn't affect.   [0:17:03] RF: It's kind of remarkable, but I can only – the thing that – I had a hard time understanding it when I first was exposed to all of this, even as a musician, but it was evolution that really gave me the way in to understanding why it is so powerful.   [0:17:18] PF: So, what would you consider music's best kept secret to be?   [0:17:23] RF: Well, those are definitely some things. But when you think about what's in the future, for instance, there is a 40 hertz vibration study at MIT that is showing with both light and sound that a very specific speed of wave can clean up plaques in the brain. So, imagine you'd go to CBS someday and step into a booth and practice hygiene for your brain. You could also embed that in music because it's not a very attractive sound, the 40 Hertz, which a composer at or MIT did, I performed this piece. Again, you could go to a concert hall, and come out, and be that much kind of fresher, cognitively. So, there are some amazing things in the future, I think.   [0:18:07] PF: I love that. As people listen, they're like, "Well, music can do all these amazing things for us, but how do we start?" We see how scientists can do it. We see what researchers are doing. How does an everyday person who's listening to this, how can they start using that power of music?   [0:18:21] RF: I would say, we do it already, we all use it. We use it to work out, we use it – we kind of use it as a tool to help us do something. For instance, when I walk on flat, I don't enjoy it. I like hiking in hills, but I don't care for walking on flat as much. So, I have trouble keeping my tempo up. But if you audiate, which is a musical term, if you imagine a song with a brisk tempo, and beat like This Land is your Land, you'll keep your pace, and you don't even have to play it out loud. So, that's useful because I can still talk to people and kind of have that in the background in my head. Then, the other thing is definitely for anxiety. I highly recommend that people use music for anxiety and depression. So, Dr. Vivek Murthy, our Surgeon General talks about this now. Music is really powerful for depression, and we have natural opioids in the brain that can be released with this. There's no question that it's beneficial. Now, here's the trick. It's all taste-based. It's what you like, what speaks to you. I can't tell you, "Here's a playlist with 10 pieces. They might work, but you might find something better." So, that's something that's always interesting to explain, because people assume, because it's me, it's classical music, but it's not. It's really individual.   [0:19:38] PF: I remember attending a brain health seminar in Cincinnati several years ago, and they had been working with brain injury, and there was a teenager who was in there with a bunch of non-teenagers, and he only wanted to listen to heavy metal. They're like, "That's going to fry his brain." So, they finally were like, "Let's try it." That's what he responded to. He had a TBI, and he responded well to heavy metal music.   [0:20:04] RF: I had a music therapist, actually, tell me in Atlanta who works with veterans that when she wants to calm down, she listens to Metallica. So, the whole room just went, "What?"   [0:20:15] PF: Enter Sandman, okay.   [0:20:18] RF: Right. Yes. So, yes, there's no question about that individuality. There's a beautiful chapter by a music therapist named, Tom Sweitzer, who has a kid come in who is really almost becoming a danger to himself and the people around him. His way in was heavy metal. This kid has stayed with him and continued all his therapy. But this is a really creative therapist who's built the largest, I would say, private music therapy organization in the country. It's in Middleburg, Virginia. He serves the whole community. So, that's a picture that shows what can happen.   [0:20:52] PF: It has so many blessings for us. It has so much hope for us. We're going to tell our listeners how they can find this book and how they can find your Music and Mind Live series. But as I let you go, what is your biggest hope for this book? What do you want people to get from it, and what do you hope it does to be part of the language about how we view music in mind?   [0:21:13] RF: Well, I hope people share it. I mean, I hope – it would be a great birthday or holiday gift for any music lover in your family or arts lover. Frankly, my whole purpose for doing this is because I am passionate about the work. It has affected me tremendously. It's not my field, it's not what I do, but I've become sort of the chief advocate. I love the people that I meet through the world, the scientists, and the researchers, and the therapists, and the whole ecosystem. I will say, it is growing very quickly.   [0:21:46] PF: Well, that is fantastic news for us, because we need it, I'd say, more now than ever.   [0:21:51] RF: No question, no question.   [0:21:53] PF: Well, I so appreciate the work you're doing. I appreciate your time with me today. Again, I really look forward to sharing this with our listeners.   [0:22:01] RF: Thank you, Paula. Wonderful interview. Thank you so much. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:22:07] PF: That was Renee Fleming, talking about how music and the arts can improve our physical and mental wellbeing. If you'd like to learn more about her book, Music and Mind: Harnessing the Arts for Wellness, follow her on social media, discover her music, or access her online resources, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of On a Positive Note and look forward to joining you again next time. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Prioritizing Play With Jeff Harry [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 478 of Live Happy Now. Summer is sort of a reset for all of us, but this week's guest is here to teach us how to prioritize play all year long. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm joined by Jeff Harry, who combines positive psychology with play, to foster healing, and help individuals overcome their biggest challenges. He's sitting down with me to talk about why we all need to embrace the power of play, and how doing that can improve our wellbeing at work and at home. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW]   [0:00:36] PF: Jeff, thank you so much for joining me on Live Happy Now. [0:00:39] JH: Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited for this conversation. [0:00:41] PF: Oh, it's such a great topic. It's something we have to talk about, because we don't talk about it enough. Tell me, I think I want to start by finding out and letting our audience know how you discovered the power of play. [0:00:53] JH: Ooh. So, I'll tell you my Batman origin story. I'll tell you the brief version. But do you ever see the movie Big with Tom Hanks?   [0:01:01] PF: Yes.   [0:01:02] JH: Oh, I saw that when I was in third grade. He got to play with toys for a living, and I was like, "That's a job?" So, I started writing toy companies in third grade, and I did not stop until I got into the toy industry, like I think 15, 20 years later. Have you ever gotten exactly what you've always wanted, and then been so disappointed when you got it?   [0:01:28] PF: Really?   [0:01:30] JH: Yes. It was a toy industry. There was no fun, there was no joy, no high fives, no kids, no play. They might as well have been selling like pillows or socks. So, I was somewhat like disenchanted. So, I left New York, that's where I was at the time, and I came to the San Francisco Bay Area, and I found a job on Craigslist, for anyone that knows Craigslist.   [0:01:51] PF: Nothing risky there.   [0:01:53] JH: Nothing risky there. That's where you get furniture down a dark alleyway. I found this job teaching kids engineering with Lego. It was basically playing for a living, playing, and teaching for a living. We grew it from seven people to 400 people.   [0:02:10] PF: Oh my gosh.   [0:02:11] JH: Yes, it became the largest Lego inspired STEM organization in the US. While we were doing all this, we started working with companies like Google, Facebook, Microsoft, all these top companies in the world. I realized they were not playing at work at all. Even at the best companies, they weren't finding a way. So, I created Rediscover Your Play as a way of exploring how can we infuse more play into our work to solve problems, because I feel like play is probably one of the best ways in which we learned as a kid. And I feel like it still is one of the best ways now. [0:02:48] PF: It something that comes naturally to us as kids. So, if it's something that we're born with, and it's inherent in us, why and when do we lose that ability to play? [0:03:01] JH: There was a professor, [Name inaudible 0:03:02] – I'm going to ruin her last name, but like Pam Settler that talked about how, by the time we reach the age of 18, I think it's 149,000 noes.   [0:03:14] PF: Oh my gosh.   [0:03:14] JH: That's the average amount of noes. Probably, we received in the range of 7,000 9,000 yeses a piece. Then, obviously, it depends on how you grew up. Probably in some places, you got even more noes than that, and barely any yeses. So, we're constantly told at such an early age, "Raise your hand, do this, do that." So much pressure coming from parents, and guardians, and teachers all being like, "What are you going to do when you grow up?" Constantly giving you all like this information, "Maybe you should be a doctor, maybe you should be a lawyer." You're like, "I'm six years old, like I don't even understand what is happening, and you're putting all." NASA did this study that found that, the creativity levels of a human being at three or four is massive, it's around like 96%, 98%. By the time we reach the age of 18, it's below 20%. Then, by the time we reach the age of 25%, it could even be below 12%, maybe sometimes below 10%. Creativity, your ability to look. We are told we have to be a certain way, so we forget how to play. So, the whole point of organization, rediscover your play is like, who are you, who are you as a kid, because that really actually dictates what you would love to do as an adult. [0:04:44] PF: Why is it important to be able to identify that? What change is it going to evoke in us if we can start rediscovering our play? [0:04:53] JH: Then, you're not trying so hard. You're not playing a role; you're not pretending to be somebody that you're not. We're naturally a certain way, and then we lose that. We lose who we are, but that inner child constantly is knocking on the door, and being like, "Remember me. We still love to do this." When you're able to connect back to your inner child, you're reminded of like, "Oh my gosh, this is what makes me come alive. These are the actions that bring so much joy to my life. I haven't done those in a really long time." So, it's really amazing when someone connects back to their inner child, because you see them change. And more so, not even so much change, but you see them get reinvigorated, because then you see who they really are. [0:05:43] PF: Do you ever have people –I'm sure this happens, where people are just not comfortable being playful? How hard is it when you find someone who has stepped into a very serious role or very serious mindset to get them to get in touch with their playful side? [0:05:59] JH: I define play as a new joyful act where you forget about time. It's where you're fully in the moment, is where you're fully immersed in your flow. Then, I also define plays the opposite of perfection. Perfection is rooted in like ego, shame, constantly trying to be right. While play is rooted in like curiosity, a sense of wonder, like a sense of awe. So, if I was approached someone about that, that is like is now so serious, I'm like, "How's that working out for you? Does that feel right? Do you want to be this perfectionist? How does it feel to carry this level of burden? Because it doesn't seem like you're having a lot of fun. It doesn't seem like this is an enjoyable way of being for you." I start small. I remember talking to someone that was just like, "I don't play at all." Then, I was like, "Well, what do you do? What do you do?" She goes, "Well, I'm a lawyer." I was like, "Okay. What do you do in the law?" She's like, "Well, I get people that disagree with each other to agree on one thing. Like people that hate each other, but I'll find one thing that they can agree on." That could be, that's her play. So, everyone has a play that they're probably doing right now, but they don't realize it is, because everyone's plays different. So, it's not like, "Oh, are you playing pickleball? Are you hula hooping?" It's just like, no. What is a joyful act that brings you fully in the moment, that taps into your zone of genius? That is your play. [0:07:25] PF: I'm so glad you brought that up, because adult play looks very different from kids play. So, when you're telling an adult, "We're going to go play." They're like, "I don't do hopscotch. I don't." So, how do you really help someone dive in deeper and explore, okay, this is my form of play. You gave a great example with the attorney. [0:07:44] JH: So, I try to help people figure out their play values. It was something I came up with my colleague, Lauren Yee, where we asked people, "What do you love to do as a kid?" So, I love to combine all my board games together and make an epic board game. So, I would combine Mouse Trap, Monopoly, Clue, all of them, Candy Land, Chutes & Ladders. And I make this epic board game, and I have my sisters play with me. They hated it, but I loved it. But what I found is my values in that is creativity, collaboration, and connection. Those are my three play values. The way I do my talks when I speak, or the way I run my workshops, or the way I brainstorm the next activity, or the next video, silly video I'm going to make combined my creativity, connection, and collaboration. So, identifying your play values based off of what you love to do way back when can I help you. [0:08:38] PF: That is so interesting, because I think when you break it down for someone like that, boy, it's not just, "I need to find a way to play." Because that can be hard as an adult to make that leap back to it. But yes, now, you're really looking at – I love the values part, and how I can integrate that into what I'm doing. [0:08:55] JH: Another tangible one that I do, and I do this with a lot of my coaching clients, or executives that I'm working with is, I ask them these two questions, to rediscover their play. Is I asked them to identify three to five people that they're going to talk to, three to find people that they're close to. It could be friends, it could be family, it could be colleagues, but three to five people that they consider close to them, and ask them these two questions. What value do I bring to your life? Like, what do I do for you? Why are we friends? Because a lot of times, we don't even know what value we're providing for someone. Then, the second question, which is really interesting is, when have you seen me most alive? Another way of asking that is, when have you seen me most creative, most at play? So, the two questions are. what value do I bring to your life and when have you seen me most alive? Then, to get answers back from those three to five people, you start to see patterns of like, "Oh, I didn't even know I give in that way. Oh, I didn't even know that I play in this way." Then, when you connect it all together, then you're like, "Oh." New ideas will come up of like, "I want to play in this way." Then, you reach back out to those same three to five people, and you're like, "Can you help me play more this way?" [0:10:12] PF: I love that. So much of your work centers around companies, and is with companies. I was trying to figure out, how does that translate to individuals, but you just gave us that entire recipe of how it doesn't have to be among your workplace, it can be among your circle of friends. [0:10:26] JH: And there's this other one that I'm actually really excited about, because I'm about to go to England on Tuesday. So, I'm going to experiment with this. I learned this from my friend Desiree, who travels all the time. So, usually, people when they have a bad day, I challenged them about whether they had a bad day. Usually, what happens is you had a bad experience, and that's only momentarily. So, you can decide to let go after 50 seconds, you could let go of that experience. But if you're in a loop, you start to think that the next bad experience is coming on the next one. So, you start thinking like, "Oh, bad things happen in threes. Guess what? It happens in threes." Because your brain is constantly looking for patterns for safety. So, an interesting question that she would ask herself, is she would ask, regardless of however her day is going, whether it's good or bad. She would ask, "How can it get any better than this?"   [0:11:19] PF: I love that.   [0:11:21] JH: So, if you're traveling and you just had some really fascinating conversation, you could be like, "How can it get any better than this?" Then, someone comes in like, "Want to hop on a moped?" And you're like, "Sure, I'll hop on this moped." Then you're like, "How can it get any better than this?" Then, all of a sudden, you find yourself on an island somewhere, watching the sunset. You're like, "How can it get any better than this?" You do that, and it builds a certain level of momentum. Then, your brain starts to positively prime. It's the same thing with gratitude journals, which a lot of people think are corny. But what you're doing is you're just doing pattern recognition, where you're like, "I'm going to look for good things to start my day." Now, if you pull out your phone, which I do as well, to begin your day, and you just start doom scrolling, and the first thing you see is negative, it actually dramatically affects your productivity, I think by 20% to 30%. So, just being aware of like, what is going into your head is crucial. I think a lot of times, we're not aware of that. [0:12:24] PF: Yes. One thing we do in our house, and this is relatively new, I mean, we've kind of done it, but we weren't conscious of it. But then, we sort of made it a thing, and it's, how fast can we make this funny?   [0:12:35] JH: Ooh, I love that.   [0:12:36] PF: If something happens – we bought an older home and a lot goes wrong. We've been fixing it up for four years now. So, it's like, things go wrong a lot out here. It's like, "Okay. How fast can we make this funny?"   [0:12:50] JH: I love that.   [0:12:50] PF: It's like, we could take the show on the road at some point, I'm thinking, because there's been so many things that have happened. Again, just like you said, what happens now when something goes wrong, instead of just being like, "Ah, you got to be kidding me." You're like, "Okay. I want to be the one to come up with a punch line on this." Right?   [0:13:08] JH: Yes.   [0:13:07] PF: So, it's like, you start going through your head like that. So, that makes it fun.   [0:13:10] JH: It's such a mind shift, because now, you have redefined any failure, or any mistake as this like, "Oh, this is an opportunity for us to play." That's so cool. I love that.   [0:13:23] PF: It makes it fun. [SPONSOR MESSAGE] [0:13:25] PF: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Most of us are feeling a lot of stress these days, and one thing that can add to that stress is comparing ourselves to others on social media. It's so easy to start feeling like your life doesn't measure up. But with help from therapy, you can learn to focus on what you want, instead of what others are doing. Therapy can improve your coping skills and change the way you look at your world. BetterHelp is a great place to start. All you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire and you'll get matched with a licensed therapist. You can always change therapists at any time at no extra charge to make sure you get a therapist who's right for you. It's completely online, so it's flexible, convenient, and works with your schedule. Stop comparing and start focusing with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/livehappy today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/livehappy. We'll be right back with the show, but now, Casey Johnson, Live Happy marketing manager and cat owner extraordinaire is back to talk more about her adventures with PrettyLitter.   [0:14:36] TB: Paula, as you know, I'm a proud cat mom of three adorable cats. But, let's be honest, no matter how cuddly they are, those litter box odors are not so cute. Before PrettyLitter, it felt like no matter how much I scooped, our place always smelled like a litter box. With PrettyLitter, I found a product that is the perfect blend of beauty and functionality. That pretty crystal masks the smell at the litter boxes, and now, you don't even know I have three cats until they sit on your lap. So, to all the other dedicated cat parents out there, I highly recommend trying PrettyLitter. [0:15:06] PF: We're going to make it easier for them to try. They can go to prettylitter.com/livehappy and use the code LIVE HAPPY to save 20% on their first order and get a free cat toy. That's prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVE HAPPY to save 20% and get a free cat toy. Again, prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVE HAPPY. [INTERVIEW CONTINUES] [0:15:28] PF: Talk about what you see when people really start giving into their playfulness and really embracing that playful side. [0:15:35] JH: They become lighter, there's not as much burden upon people. You can feel it. You can feel it when you're around someone that's playful, and when you're around someone that's like a perfectionist. If you ever hung out with a perfectionist, like it's not fun. Like, restaurant with them, and they're eating lobster, and you're like, "This is really good lobster." Like, "Well, it's not as good as the one I had in Paris." You're like, "Dude, just enjoy being present." When I see people that have tapped more into their play, and are tapped more into their inner child, they can be present with people, they can be more playful, they're much more adaptive, they've embraced a much more growth-oriented mindset. So, if something bad happens, they're dramatically more resilient. Like what you just did with your example, where you're just like, "Okay. We're just going to figure out how we can make this more funny, more playful." They're willing to adapt more, and then that actually has a ripple effect on everybody else. Because then, people aren't so stressed out anymore. They're not driven by fear. They're not driven by scarcity. When you're in a playful place, you're much more abundant, you're much more tapped into your intuition, and you're much more tapped into your own emotional intelligence. So, this like really helps in so many ways, especially from a stress standpoint, because you're dramatically dropping your stress. [0:16:56] PF: So then. what's that doing to like our productivity at work? [0:17:00] JH: Well, when you're in flow, studies have found that you're 500% more productive. So, you're five times more productive. People are like, "Well, what do you mean by flow?" Well, there's this professor, the Doctor of Flow, Dr. Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. He made the only flow chart that I love, where it basically is like skill and experience. When you join a job, you have no idea what you're doing, you have no skill, and you're probably lacking experience as well. So, you have a lot of anxiety at the beginning, you have a lot of imposter syndrome. When you have so much skill, and you've been at a job for a really long period of time, you become bored. So, between anxiety and boredom, though, there's a flow channel where if the skill meets your ability directly, you go into this flow state. You know you're in a flow state because you forget about time. That's why I ask people all the time, "What is your zone of genius?" You have your zone of incompetence, things you suck at. Zone of competence, things your average at. Zone of excellent things that you're like good at, that you get a lot of praise for, but you don't really care to do them. But your zone of genius is the work where you forget about time, it's the work that you do, even if you're not getting paid to do that work. What happens is, when you're in flow, and follow me for just a moment, I'm going to get old nerdy. You go through something called transient hypofrontality. Transient means, refers to temporary, hypo is under activity, and frontality is talking about the prefrontal cortex. When you go through transient hypofrontality, a part of your brain shuts down, and your inner critic gets quiet. So, when that inner critic gets quiet, all of a sudden, you get a shot of dopamine, you become highly creative. It's almost like that movie Limitless, where you just start pulling ideas from your childhood, college, this thing, that thing, and that's where innovation comes from. That's where genius comes from. That's where like ideas that change the world come from when you're in flow. Then, studies show that then you're five times more productive doing that work. Then, it affects all the rest of your work, because then, you feel seen, you feel heard, you feel appreciated. And then, you're just in the momentum, and you get more focused doing all the other work that you typically don't like to do. [0:19:22] PF: Then, it affects how you present in the world because you're feeling good, you're happier with it, you're more fulfilled. You go home a happier spouse, mother, father, whatever that is. It just has such a domino effect. Just like a job that you hate has a domino effect. Being able to do that and find your place and find your flow is really going to change the way that the rest of your life feels. [0:19:45] JH: Exactly. And what's also interesting, and you can tell, probably, people that are typically most happy and most fulfilled are usually most present. When we're not present, that's when we're on our phones though, that's when we're looking somewhere else, that's when you can barely focus on what's going on right now. But when you're fully present, and fully at play, you feel all the feelings. It's very much like the Pixar movie Inside Out, where people are like, where they talk about how you want to feel all the feelings. You want to feel joy and sadness at the same time. That's what living is. When my dad passed away back in 2015, his brother showed up for the first time since their mom died. It was like 20 or 30 years since they had seen each other. So, I was surrounded by all my family members. I felt such an immense amount of joy. Then, I was like, "Oh my gosh, wait a minute. I'm at a funeral. I'm at my dad's funeral. I should feel guilty about this." But no, it's just like, no, you can have joy and sadness at the same time. You can be nervous and excited at the same time, and to be able to hold both truths and hold all those feelings. That's what living is. I think a lot of times, we're in such a mess state. Like, "Let me binge watch Netflix and doom scroll at the same time." Then, you're not feeling anything. Then, you're bored a majority of the time. When you're playing, you're opening yourself up to be open to all the experiences, all the emotions that come with it. [0:21:15] PF: Yes, it's so important. But of course, people right now are very time poor. This is something I can hear people like listening saying, "Yes, that sounds great, but I have this to do and this to do." So, for people that struggle with time, how do we make the time to prioritize play in our lives? How do we do that? [0:21:34] JH: Something mentioned to me by another play, friend of mine, play advocate, Gary Ware. He's like, "Who's your play partner?" So, we got to get some play partners, you got to get someone that's going to help. That is fun. It's what I did earlier when I asked you the two questions, the three to five people. Who is someone that can help you and be like, "I want to play more, but I don't have time." Well, then, we're going to work together to figure that out. Also, how important is it to you? How important is joy in your life? Look at all the things that fill up your day. We talked about how we're like, we don't have any time. The average amount of time that I think humans are on their phone is about five hours a day. So, you have time, you're grabbing your phone 200 to 300 times a day. So, I think we tell the story that we don't have time for the things that bring us joy. But I read something recently that was like, joy is vulnerable, joy is scary, play can be a little scary. Because I think a lot of times, we're so scared about feeling the fear things, but joy sometimes is even scarier. But that's where also so much living is. So, I would challenge people to look at their time, and see where there's opportunity. Even for example, with kids, you're like, "Oh, I have so many kids, I'm so busy." Play with them, join their play. Play some video games with them, even though you have no idea what they're playing, or play a game with your three-year-old even though you have no idea what game they're playing. Then, here's the flip side, show them your play. How do you use to play, they would love to see that. We talk about how – you only have 18 summers with your kids. Then, we forget later on about that. One of the greatest gifts that I think I've seen parents give to their kids, not only showing them their play, but also doing things where they fail, where their kids can see them, like make mistakes and try things out, and take risks. Like my friend Marina, who's in her late 40s just picked up roller skating. I think she injured her ankle the first time, and all the perfections, people are like, "Well, I told you, you will get injured." She's still doing it. She's still playing. What does that communicate to her kids, is that if this brings me joy, I'm going to do it. If I make mistakes, that's okay, and it's okay for me to fail, even in front of my kids rather than constantly trying to be the perfect parent, which no one can be. [0:24:15] PF: I think that's amazing. Summer time is a great time for play. This is a great time to be looking at it, get it started. But we go into fall, things get more serious. We have some serious stuff coming up this fall. So, how can we start now, building a daily practice of play so that it becomes part of our habits that carries us through? [0:24:35] JH: This is what I do for myself, so I'm just sharing this with others, is try one of the play activities that I suggested. Whether it's figuring out your play values, or asking the two questions. What value do I bring to your life? When have you seen me come most alive? Or, how can it get any better than this? Try one of those things. Then, don't put pressure on yourself that, "Oh, I got to play an hour a day." Just ask yourself throughout the day, "Is there something that can bring me a small amount of joy? What is that? Let me just do that." If you can't think of it, that's when you reach out to your friends and family, you're like, "Help me to find this." Rather than like making it so burdensome that it's just like, "It's just another thing to put on my to-do list, that now I got a play too." Just find things that you're already doing and figure out how to make them more playful. You just did that with your house. You're not doing something new. You're just shifting your mindset on how you show up. You might be able to practice this while people are traveling for the summer, where you're like, "Okay. I know I'm going to go to Disney, and I know my kids are going to have fun, but I'm just going to see it as just exhausting. Me just walking around all day long, just spending way too much money." Here's a shift. Try to see it through the lens of when you were a kid going to Disney your first time. Any experience like that, how do I see like my inner child all over again. Then, give yourself freedom to fail, and keep trying, and playing, and allowing yourself to be more of you. The perfectionist, thing that we are striving for, it's not realistic. It's driven by a lot of like consumerism and capitalism, so people buy more stuff. But when you're at play, you don't feel as if you need to fill the void. So, allow yourself the permission to play. [0:26:32] PF: I cannot think of a better way to end this. Jeff, we are going to tell people how to find you so they can learn more about play. I appreciate what you're bringing out into the world, and I super appreciate you sitting down and talking with me today. [0:26:44] JH: Yay. Thank you so much for having me. This was super fun. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:26:52] PF: That was Jeff Harry talking about learning how to prioritize play. If you'd like to learn more about Jeff, follow him on social media or check out his website. Just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every week, we drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We will meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.   [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Mindful Flower Arranging With Talia Boone [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 477 of Live Happy Now. We've all heard the advice to stop and smell the roses, but this week's guest also wants us to take a moment to arrange them. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm joined by Talia Boone, a social entrepreneur whose work has centered around human and civil rights issues. As you're about to learn, she discovered flower arranging as a form of meditation and self-care. In the height of the pandemic, she launched Postal Petals to help others relieve the anxiety they were feeling. Today, her company's mindful approach to flower arranging is being used by companies, individuals, and community groups who are discovering just how life changing her workshops can be. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW]   [0:00:48] PF: Talia, thank you for joining me on Live Happy Now. [0:00:51] TB: Yes, absolutely. Paula, thank you so much for having me. [0:00:54] PF: You are doing something that is truly different. As soon as I read about it, I was just like, oh my gosh, I can't believe, it had never crossed my mind before. We talked so much about the benefits of nature here at Live Happy Now, and you are using floral arranging as a form of healing. So, I wanted to know, you've got a very interesting story. Can you tell us when you first realized that that could affect your mental health? [0:01:21] TB: Yes. So, the interesting story came to me very unexpected way. So, I have a really good friend, and she and I, whenever we get together, we're really intentional about doing things that we've not done before, always trying some new activity, never like, "Oh, let's go to lunch, or let's go to dinner." That's boring. Always, let's do something different. For one of our friend hangs, she actually suggested that we try flower arranging. I was like, "Cool, I haven't done that before. Let's do it." I liked it, not just because I was really proud of what I've made, but just something about the experience I just enjoyed in a different way that I had other activities. I ended up doing it again, I thought – because I live here in LA, we had the second biggest flower market in the world. I just was like, I'm just going to go down to the flower market, and grab some flowers, and come home, and arrange them, and just kind of see what happens. I went home, and I arranged them, love the flowers again, did it again, did it again. I just liked the way it felt. What I started realizing is that, I would go down to the flower market, just pick whatever feel good to me. I never knew the names of anything, except for the basic like roses, and calla lilies, and things like that. But I just would go down and just pick whatever felt good, whatever colors felt good, whatever shapes really spoke to me. Then, I would go home, and pour a cup of tea, and I would just arrange, and I would just feel like all of the worries of the day, the week, the anxiety, the stress would just dissipate while I arranged flowers. Even the process of just like prepping them, and pulling the stems off, and the thorns, all of those things, I just found it really, really therapeutic. Without really having the language for to call it that then, it became my go-to form of self-care. So that, you know, fast forward a couple of years later, whenever I feel stressed, that's what I would do. I would instinctively go to the flowers. So, fast forward to the very early days of the pandemic, I was starting to get very stressed out as they kind of – as two weeks went to four weeks, went to six weeks, and then it just looked like an endless amount of time that was going to kind of consume us in the home. I started to get really nervous, as I'm sure most of us did, with the uncertainty of what it meant for ourselves, our livelihoods, our families, all of those things. My therapist, we've kind of we're trying all these different things to see how I could kind of calm myself down. I'm very much a person that's into what I call lifestyle medicine. I believe diet and exercise, the right kind of food, the right kind of serving your body in the way that it actually needs it natively is what I kind of will always gear towards. I'm very, very cautious about medications and things like that. So, those kinds of things weren't options for me, and she didn't really recommend them, but that's not a route that I wanted to go. I know that prescriptions for medicines that calm your nerves were at an all-time high during the pandemic. [0:04:11] PF: Pharmacists are banking, right?   [0:04:12] TB: Absolutely. She actually said to me, she's like, "You know, Talia, I haven't heard you talk about arranging flowers in a few months. Why don't you try that and see if that helps you feel better." That ultimately started the journey for what is now Postal Petals. So, that's how I got the love of flowers, how I understood the kind of healing benefits. But then, once she suggested that I arranged them as a way for me to deal with what I was going through in the pandemic, that ultimately ended up being the one suggestion that led to starting Postal Petals. Because when I started looking for a company that could ship me fresh cut flowers to the house for me to arrange, I just couldn't find it. There were so many options to ship me ready-to-use arrangements, but there was nothing that allowed me to arrange them myself. That journey is ultimately what led me to recognize that there was a hole in the market, being that, what I was looking for did not exist. I just felt like, if I was looking for this, there's got to be other people who are as well. Then, I just saw an opportunity to enter into the flower industry. It was a time when events weren't happening, weddings weren't happening, people were hoarding toilet paper. They were definitely not buying flowers at the grocery store. Nobody was really thinking about flowers in that way. So, I took a chance, and decided I'm going to start this company, and we're almost four years later and Postal Petals is the best thing that could have happened to me professionally. I'm in love with this company, I'm so honored, privileged to have been chosen to build and run this company. [0:05:44] PF: That's amazing. For novices, what are we talking about when we talk about flower arranging? Because I'll be honest, the only flower engine I do is take it from the paper around it and put it in a vase. That's about as fancy as I get. So, what does flower arranging really entail? [0:06:03] TB: You know what it entails? It entails patience, it entails you allowing for the time to do it, it entails you allowing yourself to express yourself creatively. So, we are quite conditioned as a culture, particularly here in America. I think in other cultures, I know that they do a lot of flower arranging, and in Japanese, historically in Japanese culture, they arrange flowers specifically as a form of self-care, and meditation, and mindfulness. So, we're just kind of catching up to where flowers had been for many for quite some time. But, the actual act of flower arranging is, realizing that flowers don't always come as perfect as they come in these ready-to-use arrangements. You have to realize when those flowers show up to your florist, they've got leaves all over them, they've probably got bugs crawling in, and there's probably petals that are wilting and dying. So, it entails you being willing to work with those flowers in the same way your florist would, to kind of strip through all of the muck, or all of the waste to really hone in on the beauty. Then, once you hone in on the beauty, really put attention into thinking about where you want to place each stem. So, it's this idea of slowing down to get through that process. So many of us, it's so easy to your point, Paula, around just grabbing a bouquet from the grocery store, running some water in a vase, and plopping it into a vase. But when you stop, and you spread that bouquet out, and you decide that you're going to rearrange it. Now, you see, "Oh, there's leaves in here, let me pull those leaves off the water, off the stamp so that they don't poison the water. Let me adjust the height a little bit, because I want it to look a little bit more full. I think this petal, this bloom would look better over here next to this bloom." So, it's just that process of prepping the flowers, which is trimming them, removing leaves, removing thorns, removing what we call guard petals. But then also, kind of thinking through stem by stem where do those flowers best show up in the arrangement that would bring you the most joy. Then, really take your time to go through that process. I think once you kind of lose yourself in that experience, when you come out of it on the other side, experiencing a piece that I just can't even explain it. I think it's very similar to the way that people talk about gardening, and how they find it just so therapeutic. Most people who haven't done it would say like, "Why do I want to get my hands in the dirt, and do this, and do that? I don't want to do that. I could just buy my vegetables at the store. I could just have a florist deliver my flowers." But there's something about engaging with nature, whether it's in the dirt of a garden, or flower stems, as you're arranging. There's something about that process that is just so incredibly calming and therapeutic. [0:08:45] PF: This seems like such a mindful activity. You can't really be looking at each one, and deciding what you're going to do with it, and be thinking about, I've got to go pick up the kids from school, and I need to stop at the grocery store, and all these other things, you really have to focus. Is that a big part of the therapy side of it? [0:09:03] TB: Yes, it is, because it really forces you to just be present on what you're doing. It's interesting, because we offer our boxes as, you can get them on demand, but we encourage people to, as we say, kind of schedule and regulate self-care as a part of your routine. So, we do subscriptions, where you can get them every week, every other week, or once a month. The reason I say, kind of center your wellness, kind of schedule your wellness is because, when those flowers show up, you have to get them out of the box right away. So, whatever other things you're stressing about, whatever other things are pulling on your time or your attention, you're going to have to make time to pull those flowers out of the box, get them in some water, get them hydrated, and then go through that experience of arranging them. So often, we're in this hustle and grind culture, where we all are wanting to multitask, and do so many different things at the same time. Whereas, it really does in this way force you to pay attention, to be present, to not allow your attention to be diverted. Because if you're looking at work emails, and trying to arrange flowers at the same time, chances are, it's not going to turn out as beautiful as you want to. You're going to cut something too short; you're going to – there's something's going to happen. So, it's just an opportunity for you to design. It's also one of those things, I find that even people who are reluctant to try it, once they start their focus, they're dialed in. One of the things I love most about workshops is that, people come in all excited, and with all this energy, and they think it's going to be like a party. Once they start arranging, the noise dies down so much, because people just – they zone out, they just really, really get into it. It's a similar feeling to me. Result is different, and the experience and the textile is a little bit different. But kind of like when you're fixing puzzles, which is relaxing. You can be doing other things while you're fixing a puzzle, but it's going to take you a lot longer, because you're not going to be paying attention to what goes where and what makes sense. Flower arrangements really are a puzzle, they're your puzzle. It's for you to decide how you want them to turn out, but you have to give them the attention they deserve in order to know exactly where you want them to go. So that when you're done, and you twirl it around, you're going to be like, "Wow, I've made that, that's amazing." You definitely want to be present for that. Otherwise, the other side of that experience, if you're not present, is you're going to be, the whole week that you have them up, you're going to be noticing all the things that you would have changed if you would have been paying attention. [0:11:29] PF: So, I think you brought up to really great points without maybe even realizing it. So, when someone knows they're going to get these flowers. So now, you have this anticipatory savoring where it's like, they're really looking forward to this experience. Then, you have the experience itself, which we've talked about. Then, you have that, as you said, that week afterwards, where you're looking at these flowers. I think that probably brings back a lot of wonderful feelings, calming emotions, just by looking at that. [0:11:58] TB: You're absolutely right. I thank you for noting that point, Paula, because that's exactly it. We talked about or starting to talk more and more about self-care, we're offering them something that's really, at the end of it, they have this really beautiful reminder of that experience. You want to repeat that, because it just feels so good. There's nothing about flower arranging that you come out of, and you're like, "That was terrible. I'll never do that again." [0:12:23] PF: That flower bit me. [0:12:24] TB: Yes, they're so beautiful, like you absolutely love them. Then, also too, throughout the week, you have an opportunity to continue to engage with them. You want to keep trimming them and changing the water to extend their vase life. If one flower starting to fail, you pull that guy out. Sometimes, I even will, midweek, I'll take the whole arrangement out, lay it out, and design it again. Because sometimes, you just need a little bit of a, "Oh, I did a little bit of a huzzah. Let me give me myself a quick 15 minutes and I'll redesign this." It starts to really change the way that you think about flowers. Instinctively, even now, people when they see flowers, it brings a smile to their face that makes them happy. But when you're also able to add to it, that you were able to release anxiety or release stress, that kind of really changes even the way that you feel when you even see flowers. Because now, you've attached this really calming experience to it. Now, you've attached this kind of this mindful, and therapeutic experience to it. It really goes to elevate the relationship that we have with flowers. I think it's a missed opportunity when we allow florists to have all the fun, but we don't take on that experience ourselves. [SPONSOR MESSAGE] [0:13:37] PF: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Most of us are feeling a lot of stress these days, and one thing that can add to that stress is comparing ourselves to others on social media. It's so easy to start feeling like your life doesn't measure up. But with help from therapy, you can learn to focus on what you want, instead of what others are doing. Therapy can improve your coping skills and change the way you look at your world. BetterHelp is a great place to start. All you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire and you'll get matched with a licensed therapist. You can always change therapists at any time at no extra charge to make sure you get a therapist who's right for you. It's completely online, so it's flexible, convenient, and works with your schedule. Stop comparing and start focusing with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/livehappy today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/livehappy. We'll be right back with the show, but now, Casey Johnson, Live Happy marketing manager and cat owner extraordinaire is back to talk more about her adventures with PrettyLitter.   [0:14:46] TB: Paula, as you know, I'm a proud cat mom of three adorable cats. But, let's be honest, no matter how cuddly they are, those litter box odors are not so cute. Before PrettyLitter, it felt like no matter how much I scooped, our place always smelled like a litter box. With PrettyLitter, I found a product that is the perfect blend of beauty and functionality. That pretty crystal masks the smell at the litter boxes, and now, you don't even know I have three cats until they sit on your lap. So, to all the other dedicated cat parents out there, I highly recommend trying PrettyLitter. [0:15:17] PF: We're going to make it easier for them to try. They can go to prettylitter.com/livehappy and use the code LIVE HAPPY to save 20% on their first order and get a free cat toy. That's prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVE HAPPY to save 20% and get a free cat toy. Again, prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVE HAPPY. [INTERVIEW CONTINUES]   [0:15:39] PF: You have turned Postal Petals into an entire movement. So, if someone's listening to this, they might think, "Oh, she sells flowers." It's like, "No, that's not what's going on here." You are doing community workshops; you even do online workshops. Talk about the workshops that you offer, and kind of what you see happen through the course of these workshops. [0:15:59] TB: Yes. So, thank you for asking that. We absolutely are not just flowers. I always say flowers are their tool. We are here to help introduce people to an attainable form of self-care, and mindfulness, and mental wellness. So, we do a series of free community wellness events where we incorporate movement, meditation, and then mindfulness with the flower arranging. So typically, it'll be maybe it's hiking, maybe it's walking, or like a restorative yoga session, followed by a breathwork session, or a guided, or sound bath meditation. Then, we take that really, once the body's already in a calm state, your mind has already kind of started to settle, we bring that energy right into a truly peaceful floral design workshop. We kind of guide people through, here's the flowers, and they walk into the space with the flowers, and it's just flowers everywhere. They can pick whichever flowers they want, and they go back to their stations, and we guide them, in a really kind way through the design process. We're really careful around not telling people where to put each stem. But instead, giving them tricks and tips like, "Cut the stems at a 45-degree angle, make sure you don't allow any leaves to fall below the waterline, because it'll poison your flowers. Be conscious of where you cut based on where you want the blooms to fall on the arrangement," things like that. The most rewarding thing after we do the free community wellness events, and then some of the corporate stuff that we do as well, is really the way that people without fail will comment about how unexpectedly good they feel after having gone through the experience. Because most people will say, I never thought about flowers in this way. I loved flowers. I've always loved flowers, but I've never, I've never experienced flowers in a way that I'm leaving feeling so relaxed, and feeling so centered, and feeling so calm, and feeling like I've addressed, I paid attention to my mindfulness today. That's really what we appreciate most. Then, even when we do our corporate workshops, or our workshops with – we do that private, we call them Petal Riot for design workshops. But we'll bring them in, and they'll say like, "Oh, there's going to be men in there, are men going to want to do this? We have come to find out that the men love it. They absolutely love it.   [0:18:11] PF: That's amazing.   [0:18:13] TB: Yes, the men love it. Many times, they are far better designers than they ever thought they were. I have been wowed so many times by the arrangements that some of our male workshop attendees have put together. They sometimes are dragged, kicking, and screaming to that workshop. But by the end of it, they're among the best, and typically, at the top of the class, it's really interesting. It's funny, because, I'll tell you, Paula, a trend that I was starting to notice when men would be in the workshops, whether they were the virtual workshops or the in-person workshops, is that they would naturally become very competitive. They would always want to make their arrangement better than everyone else. I would see this over, and over, and over again. I was thinking like, geez, I don't understand what that is. I really want this to be relaxing. I don't want it to feel like a competition. I was talking to a male friend of mine, and he was saying, he's like, "Talia, I think what you're not realizing is that for most men, competition is self-care."   [0:19:08] PF: That's a great way to look at it.   [0:19:09] TB: Yes, exactly. That's why they love watching games. That's why they love going to sporting events. Because for man, a lot of that is self-care. I never thought about it like that. But it also really helped me to kind of also even understand how to reach men, and how to, really, instead of discouraging the competition, encouraging it for those who need it, because everybody's journey is their own. While competition for me is not self-care, being able to be sensitive to, and to pivot, and adjust on the ways in which we're addressing each person in the class to make sure that we're meeting them where they are. So long as they leave with an experience of feeling exactly the peaceful and mindful experience that we want them to have. That's what we want. So, I say all that to say, it's a different experience for everyone that comes in, but collectively, regardless of the way that they get there through their flower arranging experience. Whether it's through the joy and peace of it all, or the competition of it all, they all leave saying that they never thought in a million years that they would have that kind of experience, or that they would leave feeling as good as they felt after arranging flowers. It really, it's a beautiful thing, and it's my favorite thing of doing workshops. At the end, I'll say, "How was it?" And they're just like, "This was amazing." [0:20:25] PF: How rewarding that must feel. [0:20:27] TB: Really. It really is, because it's, to your point as we were talking around this really being something that hasn't really been done before in the way in which we're doing it. It really is a unique offering, and it's validating every time I get that response. Because sometimes, people who have not had the experience find a hard time understanding why they would want to have the experience. Because we've been so traditionally conditioned to experience flowers as this ready to use product from florists. They just deliver them to your door, maybe you take some pictures, throw them on the ground. Then, you don't really engage with them again, until you're tossing them out into the trash because they died. The whole time you've had them, you've missed all that opportunity to really engage with them, those flowers, and those stems in a really, really meaningful way. So, I get it, why people don't understand it. But it's so rewarding when they do get it because they don't – once they get it, they don't do it just once, they keep coming back for it, and I love that. They're hooked on it like I am, and I love it. [0:21:26] PF: There you go. You did something really interesting and profound with Amazon. I want to hear about this. I was reading about this on your website, and I thought, oh my gosh. I'm not going to say anything more, because I want your words to describe this. [0:21:42] TB: Yes. Oh, God. Paula, thank you for bringing that up. That was actually one of my favorite events, very special to me for a number of reasons. But that event, Amazon had Amazon Studios, put out a film back in 2022, called the TILL movie, which was the Mamie Till-Mobley story about the lynching of her 14-year-old son, Emmett Till in the south, while he was there visiting family. It's a story that growing up in the African-American community, you've always been very much aware of, as well as stories just like it that happened, that have been happening for generations to our ancestors, men and women in our family who have come before us. When that film came up, and they were releasing it, they reached out, and they said, "Hey, we're doing a series of screenings and talks about, we want to have you there." This particular screening that we did was a screening for black mothers. It was a screening of the project, and they never meant to have like a panel discussion about that film, and what it brought up for them being mothers, and the way that they protect their children in general, but their sons, their black sons growing up in this country, in particular. When they came to me, I just said to them, the themes in this film, in other films like it, incredibly traumatic for us in our community. These bring up very negative feelings, very real vulnerabilities, and threats to our livelihoods, even today. So, I said to them, "I would love to work with you all, but I want to be really careful about the way that we engage in this type of space. Since we know that these things can be incredibly traumatic to our community, I want to make sure that we don't send them out into the world with that trauma from the screening and from the conversation that we can instead make sure that we're really intentional about the ways in which we can start to relieve some of that pressure before we leave." So, the idea that we came up with was to do one of our make and take bloom bars, after the screening and after the panel discussion. So, what happened was, the ladies went in, they did the screening, they had their panel discussion, and we were in a separate room in the back. You could kind of see, yes, they were coming out of that room, the weight of the film on them. But then, when they saw the flowers, and they got closer, and start to realize that the flowers were for them, you could visibly see the weight of the film starting to break away. As they were gathering up, and starting to pick the flowers that they wanted in their arrangements, and we started kind of fixing them up and wrapping them. Then, they started to converse with each other about the flowers that they were creating, and the flowers they were choosing, the arrangements that they were creating, it completely changed the spirit and the energy in the room, where the ladies were able to use the flowers as a way to decompress, and to kind of level set kind of their energies, and the spirit of kind of how they were feeling coming out of it. It just completely changed it, where they were talking about the flowers, and they were talking about the beauty of the flowers. As they were able to continue to have some of the conversation about the film, their perspective was very much shifted based on the fact that they were able to look at it from a different way, because their energy had been shifted. Then, they took those flowers, and we had a whole portrait studio set up for them. So, we were able to kind of memorialize the moment with those flowers, and with those women in the portrait studio, and to think that they were able to go from watching that screening, and really taking in those really heavy, heavy messages at the film. To ending with being given flowers, and smiling in a portrait studio was just really beautiful to see. Also, just a true example of the absolute healing powers of flowers. In real time, we were able to see how these women went from carrying the weight of this movie and their lived experience relating to the movie. And seeing the flowers being able to decompress that, and allow them to leave feeling less heavy than the film. [0:25:45] PF: As I read about that, I was thinking how it's really helping heal a traumatic experience for them. So then, I wonder, I know you have so much research on your website. I love the fact that you just have research that says, "Hey, it's not just me." There's science behind this that shows how good this is for us. But what do you see being able to do in terms of helping people work through trauma? [0:26:09] TB: Again, thank you for asking that. That's another thing that we're actively doing now, is beginning to partner with licensed mental health practitioners to start to develop floral healing curriculums that speak really specifically to various ailments. Mental and emotional health ailments that people may be going through. So, we're now really thinking about in addition to what – as our curriculum start to be formalized, really very intentionally beginning to partner with the social institutions that sit at the centerpieces of our communities. Thinking about schools, and community organizations, even rehab facilities, correctional facilities, aging, and caregiving facilities. Seeing how we can begin to take our flowers into those spaces and help with things like self-esteem, emotional intelligence, mindfulness. When you're thinking through rehab, and things like that. But even, people who are in facilities where they're having to find more healthy ways to express themselves, as opposed to coming angry or, or taking on substances, or anything that's not healthy and saying, "Well, let's put that energy into the flowers, and really being able to have curriculum that's very intentionally crafted to help people use the flowers in that way. The way that I love to describe this is, we are really giving people an attainable way to achieve, to reach for their mental, and emotional wellness. For some, they require that to be done in concert with professionals, in concert with medications, just kind of depending on what their unique condition is. But for many people, just the act of tending to your emotional and mental wellness, tending to acknowledging the anxiety that you're feeling, acknowledging the stress that you're feeling, and giving yourself 30 minutes to an hour each week or every other week. Just to kind of put that energy into the process of arranging flowers works wonders for your total emotional health. [0:28:04] PF: That's incredible. I'm so excited to see where this goes, because I know you've been at it for a while. But I also realized this is just really the beginning of what it can accomplish, and like I said, I hope you'll stay in touch. I hope we can watch and see it grow because you're doing a lot of amazing things. [0:28:20] TB: Thank you so much, Paula. I really, really appreciate that. Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:28:28] PF: That was Talia Boone, talking about how mindful flower arranging can relieve anxiety and improve our wellbeing. If you'd like to learn more about Talia, follow her on social media or check out her Postal Petals workshops. Just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every week, we'll drop a little bit of joy into your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.   [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: What Wolves Can Teach Us With Cynthia Heisch [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:08.6] PF: Welcome to Happiness Unleashed, with your host, Brittany Darrenbacher, presented by Live Happy. For this episode, we’re going to take a walk on the wild side. For years, wolves have been revered as spirit animals, and in many spiritual traditions, their belief to help people connect with their instincts and inner wisdom. At the Sedona Wolf Sanctuary in Arizona, rescued wolves on sacred land create a healing experience for those who have experienced trauma or who are looking for renewing spiritual experience. In this episode, Brittany talks with Cynthia Heisch, Founder and CEO of the Sanctuary, to talk about how and why wolves can help us heal. Let’s have a listen. [INTERVIEW]   [0:00:49.9] BD: Hi Cynthia, welcome to Happiness Unleashed. [0:00:52.5] CH: Hello, thank you so much for having me, Brittany, and team, excited to be here. [0:00:58.4] BD: You know, recently, I was out in Sedona and I came to the sanctuary and I just immediately knew, I’m like, “We have got to get her on the show.” And just not only to talk about your space but also to talk about wolves. You know, this is a topic that when I first got into supporting animal care professionals, I didn’t know that this field of rescue and sanctuary life even existed. So, let’s start off by you telling the listeners what is a wolf sanctuary. [0:01:31.3] CH: Yeah, so a wolf sanctuary is a place where you know, rescued wolves or wolf dogs, or anywhere in between will come to live. There’s a reason why so many wolves and wolf dogs out there end up in sanctuaries. The easiest way that I can explain it is they’re kind of the outcasts of the animal world. If you think about it, they don’t quite fit in a zoo, although, many of them are in zoos. They’re kind of dropouts as private pets and so, they’re trying to find their place in today’s modern world because even in nature, they’re getting pushed out, right? And it starts with a lot of the misconceptions that people have about wolves in general and even owning wolves or wolf dogs as pets, and why that often goes horribly wrong but that’s why there’s such a need out there for sanctuaries, for permanent placements where these animals can live the entirety of their lives. Oftentimes, it is in a nonprofit organization that has dedicated their entire organization to rescuing these wolves but that is what your average wolf sanctuary is built upon. Now, our sanctuary as you know is quite different. We are the only spiritually infused wolf sanctuary in the country, maybe the world, on sacred lands. So, we pair and really focus on pairing that sacred land with the sacred animal and the magic behind that, and I think that’s exactly why you’re talking to me for this purpose. [0:03:09.2] BD: What is wolf medicine? [0:03:11.1] CH: So, wolf medicine is something that, number one, you feel, and it starts with looking at wolves almost the same way the Native Americans did. So, not just as a spirit animal, but as the eyes of spirit, as our greatest teachers. You know, some tribes even saw wolves as like walking gods, and Healing Wolf, who is the creator of this wolf sanctuary originally over 20 years ago, she thought, “If we could have a direct connection with the wolf ourself or at least, be in the presence of them, that would do a lot in terms of helping people to gain a new appreciation of the animal.” Change some of the stereotypes and stigmas that are out there about wolves, starting with the big bad wolf, when we’re young, of course, and also helping people heal or transform, whatever they’re looking to go through. A lot of times, it can be quite an emotional experience for people and that’s really the magic behind it because I think in many ways, wolves bring up our own fears. There are so many fears about wolves in general, in society, in media. As we see, they’re always played out to be the big bad wolf. So, there’s something inherent and almost subconscious about being around wolves that bring up our own fears. So, I think that’s why and I can only speak from experience, why I’ve seen so many people be able to all of a sudden, bam, when they’re around our animals have these transformations. Now, it doesn’t happen for everyone, right? It’s not guaranteed but for those that are ready, a lot of times, they’re able to help us connect to our inner wolf, and really bring to consciousness what are our fears, what is it that we need to transform and transmute in order to move forward. [0:05:07.7] BD: And there’s something so beautifully therapeutic about that. I think that’s what stood out to me, you know, in visiting the space is just it is a therapeutic experience. [0:05:17.6] CH: Right, right, and although I don’t claim to be a therapist on any regard, we get a lot of people in that field, you know, that come here or even people who have tried all other types of traditional methods and therapy and are almost desperate for a solution. People who maybe have gone through animal trauma, you know, like with dogs, or we had one lady who was attacked by a mountain lion, and that was still, you know, affecting her day-to-day. Those sort of methods where it can be quite therapeutic because not just the wolves but as you know, we create a whole experience and we really try to help people tap inward as best as we can on the sacred land in our own ways with the medicine wheels and things of that nature. So, I agree, I think that’s why we see these big, emotional releases, why people say, “This changed my life.” I mean, that’s almost hard for even me to believe, you know? When you hear something like that, you know that’s really doing something. [0:06:24.4] BD: What can people expect to experience and see and witness and be a part of in a wolf experience at the sanctuary? [0:06:33.2] CH: A lot of times, when people first find the wolf sanctuary, I think they just expect, “Okay, maybe we’ll be in there with the wolves.” And I make sure to tell people, we’re not a petting zoo, but rather, it’s an organic experience. So, it’s completely up to the wolves whether or not they decide to come up to you. You know, all the animals that we have are rescues but one reason why this allows to work is because they have all been domesticated to some degree. So, these aren’t just wild feral wolves that are coming up to you, of course, that would never work but because we still selectively pick our pack and have integrated them, that’s what allows for these experiences, where we allow them to go into the enclosures. Now, where the magic happens, where the healing happens that we see is kind of where it’s exceeding their expectations, how when they’re actually face to face with a wolf and it’s coming up to you, that’s when that catalyst of change happens. I mean, you’ve experienced it, where all of a sudden, it’s like, all your emotions can come up. Sometimes, even seeing them through the enclosures before they walk in, I see people have tears in their eyes, and when you ask them, “What’s happening?” They’re like, “I don't know what’s happening.” They almost can’t even put it into words. So, you go into each enclosure but we also integrate the medicine wheels, the ancient medicine wheels that are on the property. It is sacred land, land that is near Montezuma Well. Of course, Sedona is the mecca for healing but the land that we are on has had years and years of, first, starting with the Native Americans, blessing and being a part of the land. It’s surrounded by water and so, the land itself is its own sanctuary, and that’s what’s equally as important and why people can feel the power of the animals, even more so. It’s a portal for catalyst of change and a portal for feeling your own emotions. Just like any other sanctuary is, right? It’s the same thing that we’ve created here and that I’m proud to call now my life’s work and continue from healing wolves. We started it in the very beginning. [0:08:38.7] BD: Yeah, how did you get into this work, how did you make this your life’s work? [0:08:42.4] CH: I had a whole previous career in the corporate world that taught me all sorts of things. I have an MBA and like many people, I came to a point in my life where I was like, “I think I’m meant for something different I don’t know what it is.” So, my partner and I moved to Sedona, we’re Airbnb’ing it and I happen to find this wolf sanctuary. At the time, it was called Medicine Wheel Lodge and was still being ran by Healing Wolf. So, I was obsessed with it, I had to go, I called her every single day until we got a booking. When I went there, she saw me with the wolves and said, “You have a gift.” And I was like, “Really?” And she just saw how well I was able to interact with the animals. Healing Wolf became my mentor, this, you know, legendary woman in the community, this spiritual leader suddenly took me under her wing. And I’ll tell you what, one secret was after that first experience, when I went into the wolf visit myself, I sat in the car, looked at my partner, and was like, “How do we find a place like this?” And some people will say that was pulling it out into the universe, you know, manifesting it, however, you want to call it. It went from arriving there and doing our very first visit was June 2022 to taking over the entire sanctuary, buying the property, the business, everything October 2022. So, yeah, to the logical timeline, that sounds like, “What in the world, how is that even possible?” But to people who are maybe more, like, in the woo and the divine timing and unfolding, they’re like, “Oh, I get it.” [0:10:26.8] BD: You spoke it and so it is. [0:10:29.4] CH: Exactly. So, that’s kind of how it happened and now, it’s an amazing blessing and we get to meet people from all over the world. I get to witness these healings, every single day, and people that are coming from grief. You know, they’ve lost a pet, they lost a loved one, people who are suffering from trauma, like I said, dog trauma is a big one that we get because dogs are everywhere. People who have suffered from PTSD, veterans, the deaf, blind, you name it, we’ve had the opportunity to work with them and it’s just been the best blessing of a lifetime. [0:11:04.6] BD: You’ve talked about you know, misconceptions, you know, a few times already, like, what are common misconceptions when it comes to wolves? [0:11:14.8] CH: The biggest one that is – the biggest problem I would say is that people think it’s okay to have them as pets. Not necessarily, mostly wolves a hundred percent but a lot of times wolf dogs. So, there can be certain percentages of content that a wolf is, like how much wolf is this dog if that makes sense. I tell people that’s like having a tiger as a cat in your house and we really make sure to hone in on that when people come here. Why there are so many in need, and the statistic that we share is over 130,000 are born in this country each year, only 10% make it to the age of two, it’s not because of health reasons or something like that but usually because people think it sounds cool to have one as a pet and then anything is manageable as a baby, as a puppy, right? But as soon as it gets bigger wolves are one of those animals that is often like, “You know what? I’m not trying to do the whole sit-stay-heel thing, I’m not a dog.” I tell people that’s like trying to make a human be a monkey, right? And we will go crazy, it’s the same thing, so that is one of the biggest misconceptions. I think the fear around wolves in general because that’s an important layer too, I think that comes from the way they’ve been portrayed in media but even before that if you think about it, in the wild, wolves are the apex predator just like lions. They don’t naturally have any predators, so when the natives and the first settlers came here, you know, all of a sudden they think they’re at the top but then there’s this animal that is kind of at their level, the natives revered not feared the wolves, right? They say saw them as teachers, they saw them as something to respect and learn from how these wolves are able to operate independently but also have so much care and loyalty to their pack. They saw that as such a beautiful thing but oftentimes, the next layer is that you know, a lot of the settlers came through and saw them as a threat, and then from there on, they became the big bad wolf, they became the figure we see them as in society. So, that’s why here at the Sedona Wolf Sanctuary, we really try to focus on rewiring that in public perception and showing people they aren’t the big bad wolf. That was just a construct that was out there and they’re just trying to exist and be their selves as we all should be. They are living in their truest level of alignment, which is such a beautiful thing and message that we can learn from them. [0:14:02.8] BD: And when I left, I felt a deep reverence for wolf medicine, you know? What would be your biggest hope for people that come to the sanctuary and get to experience this, what do you hope to impart for them when they leave? [0:14:20.9] CH: When they come here, I just hope that they’ll come with an open mind, without any expectations of, “I’m going to pet a wolf” without any expectations of, “I’m going to have this miracle healing, these are going to save me.” But just being open to the experience to receiving because as you know Brittany, we have quite a process that we take people through, and the ones that come and are ready to just kind of drop those expectations and be. Be present and be here in their fullest self, put the phone away, put the stress away for just a minute, that would be my one hope that they would come with because I know they will not leave the same from this experience and for each person, it is a personal experience, you know? I can’t say or read someone’s mind in terms of what area of healing it is that they need. Only they know that or maybe even on a subconscious level but the wolves will feel it. They’ll bring it up to the surface, they’ll point it out for them, and that’s what’s so beautiful about it not just you know, spiritual or emotional healings, literal physical healings. They will point it out quite literally. So, even if they don’t experience something like in the moment, what often happens as well is people will have dreams or visions, days, weeks, months later and suddenly call me and say, “I have to tell you what happened.” “I have to tell you the story.” That’s why we have so many amazing, like almost unreal Google reviews is because of those types of experiences. So, all I would ask and hope for is that whoever feels called to come to the sanctuary is just open and ready to receive because then that’s when the magic can unravel in itself. [0:16:11.1] BD: Is there a particular moment or just something that has happened on the property that you feel comfortable sharing that stands out to you? [0:16:19.3] CH: If I think back to one of the stories that stands out the most, that would be there was this mother that brought her child here and her child, who, this was back when we allowed children by the way, he was about six but when he was about three years old, he got attacked by a dog and it was a pretty bad situation, okay? Well, this kid was completely petrified of dogs and dogs are everywhere, right? People have service dogs, they’re just everywhere, they’re a part of our life. Well, he literally couldn’t function like a normal kid. This mom herself was a counselor, was trained, she did this for a living, and she had tried every other traditional method of healing, of therapy, you name it, to help her child. She came here and I could tell even from the initial phone call that this was kind of a last-ditch effort. She was like, “Maybe the wolves can help my kid.” So, when she came here, I’ll never forget, we did the whole experience and then we’re walking into the enclosure with Thor, the first enclosure, Thor the wolf, he’s coming straight at the kid almost too fast where I almost – I was so close to literally physically jumping in between Thor and the kid. I’m thinking, “He’s coming in way too hot.” But I just sat there and I trusted him like, “Okay, source, you’ve got this, like come on, you’ve got this.” And so, Thor went straight up to the kid and started pointing at his leg, and at the time, that didn’t mean anything to us but the kid was fine. He wasn’t freaking out, he was totally calm. So, I’m like, “Okay, so far so good.” We go through the entire experience and all the different enclosures, meeting all the different animals. And at the end, we were wrapping things up and I walk around the corner and I’ll never forget, I see the mom just bawling. She’s standing next to her child, she’s bawling and she said, “Tell Cynthia what you just told me.” And the kid told me that when Thor first came up to him, Thor, I still get goosebumps saying this, Thor was pointing at his scars through the kid’s pant legs. Like, Thor was like, “Boom-boom-boom” went straight for the bites where he had scars, and after that the kid knew it’s okay, I’m safe. This child, right? Was telling us this and then I start bawling because I was like, “Oh my gosh, that is beyond the physical.” I mean, there’s no other way to explain that and so ever since then, he’s totally fine with dogs, you know? He’s going through life completely normal. You know, people sometimes will have those fears coming here and I know it’s not for everybody every time of course, but for a lot of people who do feel called, I wish they could know, like, miracles happen here. It’s possible, right? If you’re open to it again, and I think the kid was open to it, his mother was open to it and that’s really also what allowed for that to happen. Those are the moments I think back to and I’m like, “Okay, keep going, this is important work.” [0:19:42.1] BD: So, to close out the show, I like to ask everyone to share a story of an animal that has really had an impact in your life, that has done magic or healing, you know, maybe in an unassuming way and just, you know, a story of a special animal that stands out to you. [0:20:01.7] CH: Oh, jeez, the one that I would say right now is, this is a hard one, I think all the wolves have special stories as you know but I think right now would be Eva. When she came here, she kind of had a lot of trauma. She would literally fear pee and poo the second you looked at her, and I remember thinking because I didn’t do the transfer, my partner did, and I remember thinking, “Well, how in the world are we going to do this, you know?” I don't know if she’s ever going to trust us and you have those doubts in your head when you see this animal that’s so petrified, and you just want to give them all the love in the world. Well, I went in there and every single day would just spend time with her over and over, and she went from literally hiding in her den for the first month that we had her in with Thor, to now, jumping all over me, coming up to guests. And so, to me, that’s just a testament of the power of love, the power of patience, how much they can feel and it’s a reciprocal give and take experience, the wolves, and seeing their progress, seeing how they are able to know that. It’s like they know they have a purpose here and they know what they’re here for and they feel the love that we give to them that they’re a part of the sanctuary. They’re a part of this experience and knowing that, and seeing that in action, that’s just – those are the moments that warm my heart the most. [0:21:42.3] BD: They’re incredible. [0:21:43.9] CH: Thank you. [0:21:44.9] BD: Cynthia, thank you so much for coming on the show. [0:21:47.0] CH: Thank you, Brittany, yes. [0:21:47.9] BD: And sharing all the wolves with us and wolf medicine, and I hope that everyone makes a trip to Sedona and books a wolf experience with the Sedona Wolf Sanctuary. I can’t recommend it enough. [0:22:00.5] CH: Thank you. Hope everyone comes and sees us or checks out our website and we would love to connect. Thank you so much. [END OF INTERVIEW]   [0:22:09.0] PF: That was Brittany Darrenbacher, talking with Cynthia Heisch, about the power of wolf medicine. If you’d like to learn more about the Sedona Wolf Sanctuary or follow them on social media, just visit our website at LiveHappy.com and click on the podcast link, and of course, Brittany will be back here next month to talk more about how animals bring us joy, help us heal and can be some of our best teachers. Until then, for everyone at Live Happy, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.   [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: How to Stress Wisely with Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:03] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 476 of Live Happy Now. If you're feeling more stressed than usual these days, you aren't alone. Today, we're going to find out why that is and what you can do about it. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm joined by Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe, an author, psychology instructor, and expert on resiliency. Her latest book, Stress Wisely: How to Be Well in an Unwell World, breaks down why the stress of today's fast-paced world is having such a devastating effect on us, both physically and mentally. She's here today to explain how we can manage that stress to become more resilient and even how we can proactively prepare for stress before it happens. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:49] PF: Robyne, thank you so much for joining me on Live Happy Now. [0:00:52] RHD: I am thrilled to spend time with you here, so thank you for the invitation. [0:00:56] PF: I'm excited to have you. I received your book, Stress Wisely, and it is one of the most profound books on stress I have ever read. The time I've spent with this is really more than I would normally spend with a single book, because you approach it in so many different ways. Before we dig into that, tell the listeners what led you to write this book. [0:01:19] RHD: Oh, well, first, thank you for that very generous feedback. My area of research is around human resiliency. I've been really curious. I've been teaching and doing research almost 20 years now on that area. One of the through-line, Paula, that just kept coming to the surface was that persons who were able to work with their stress systems, like people who had strategies to work with their stress system, they were so better positioned to be able to manage life when things went off the rails, or when stressors became really apparent. As I was doing this work on resiliency, I just really felt that calling to be able to say, hey, we got to shine some light and spend some good intention about understanding our nervous system, because that's really going to unlock how we can really, truly be well. [0:02:06] PF: Mm-hmm. One of the things that I love about your approach is it's very knowledgeable and scientific, but it's like talking to a friend. It is really like you, take us by hand, it's like, “Hey, we're going to go on this little journey through this thing called stress.” It's very friendly in the tone. Was that just a natural thing for you to write it that way? [0:02:28] RHD: I feel very fortunate and, again, being in a position where as someone who really struggled with school, so I was not a really super strong student, I really navigated with a lot of challenges academically, until I learned that with my ADHD and learning disabilities that I just process information in a different way. Despite being able to go on and being able to complete multiple degrees and have this really great academic success, something that's always been true to me is I love to share information in a way that resonates with how information lands with me. I'm really not interested in that notion of expertise. I'm interested in allyship, where walk with me and help me understand, because that's the learning that really resonates with me. Again, to be true, to be able to do this work, I felt I wanted to represent it in that similar way. That's why I'm just really appreciative when I hear folks say that, hey, this was a pretty kind approach to be talking about a very complex topic, which is what I really strive to do with how I prepared that material. [0:03:29] PF: A lot of books, or articles that we read about stress, it's like, how to overcome it. It's like, this is something we should beat, which just stresses us out more, because it's like, “I can't. Stress is bigger than I am.” You really take a different approach in that you talk about making stress an ally. [0:03:48] RHD: Absolutely. [0:03:50] PF: Talk about what that looks like when you make stress an ally and how you even begin doing that. [0:03:56] RHD: Yeah. You're absolutely right. Right now, it seems like, everything is going to kill us, right? Stress is one of those things, where they say, 90% of all diseases are associated with high levels of stress. It seems like, it's just permeating every aspect of our well-being and our culture. Then we hear that the remedy is to try and get rid of stress. Where I ran into a bit of just this disconnect was stress is actually our first line of defense. Our stress system is designed to keep us alive. It's not meant to do us this harm. What I really fell into was this notion that the way that we're living our lives very much is going against our biology. When we start to re-imagine that relationship with stress as in like, hey, this is my internal system that's letting me know what's okay and what's not okay, letting me know when do I need to rest? When do I need to focus? When do I need to regroup? Again, when do I need to just find a different way through it? What I really started to get curious about is how do we change that narrative that, again, stress isn't the enemy. It's the doses of cortisol that we're getting on a daily basis that we're now using as our default setting. Our default setting is this sense of urgency that everything's a crisis, and that hustle and that just never enough feeling is really this idea that that's just not sustainable. Instead, learning how do we re-regulate these nervous systems, so we can work in partnership with all of our parts, versus working against ourselves is what we started to think about in this work. [0:05:33] PF: I love that you acknowledge the fact that our bodies were not built for today's world. [0:05:38] RHD: Not even close. [0:05:39] PF: Talk about that. Why do you say that we are not equipped to live in the society we've created? [0:05:45] RHD: Well, I think the biggest one, even just if we come at it from a physiological perspective, our bodies and our brains are not designed to be in this place of omnipresence. What I mean by that is we're not meant to have these 18, 20-hour days where we don't have opportunities for rest and recovery. What's happened right now is we're creating this artificial ecosystem where we're calling this high performance, or we're just calling this the way that the world is now. But the reality is our nature is very much designed to have ebbs and flows, to have seasons of high productivity, absolutely. But then, we need time to rest and to recharge and just really enjoy that. Right now, again, I think we're doing a big disservice by suggesting that everything needs to be this complicated, and this full, versus being able to priority management, the things that matter most and make those things matter most, so we can enjoy the process. [0:06:43] PF: What's so difficult is we keep adding more things that need to be done. Even some of those things are, “I need to relax. I need to build in time to meditate, or whatever my form of relaxation is.” Then it becomes just one more thing on this list. You get stressed out looking at it, because you can't get to all those things. [0:07:03] RHD: Absolutely. It would be a full-time job in itself just to do all the things that they say we ought to be doing and we should be doing, or we could be doing for our well-being. One of the things that when we're doing this research that really was striking for me was, for example, we learned that loneliness will kill you faster than a bad diet. Yet, we're not talking about social connection. As we are talking about what's the nice next hype cycle of what nutrition program we should be following. Again, it's reimagining that, okay, well, what is it that we actually need? Really, much going back to some of those fundamentals of ensuring that we're meeting all of the parts of our well-being. So often, again, when we talk about well-being, I think people are really talking about health and you know what? Yeah, health is associated with the physical self. Well-being is the emotional self, it's the spiritual self, it's all of the parts of us that make up our identity. I think coming at this from a different perspective of radically simplifying the things that matter most, where we'll get the best return on our investment. I can give you an example of that. Okay, just recently I was at a huge event and they were all asking me what supplements should I be taking, or how cold should the cold plunge be? They're just really talking about a lot of those pieces of information in the media that are making some really big promises to radically transform our lives. They're like, “Which one should I do, Robyne?” I said, well, I can ask you this. Do you sleep? They said, “Well, no.” Then I said, well, you're really stepping over a $100 bill to try and pick up a penny if you're looking at supplements, because if you're not having a good night's sleep, or using naps to help recover, none of the supplementation is going to work. You're trying to find a way to replace something that's so fundamental to our sense of well-being, which you just can't do with supplementation and things like that. [0:08:58] PF: Yeah, we do try to find this answer without looking at the actual cure for what's going on. As you brought up, sleep is such a huge factor in how we're doing well overall and stress completely robs us of that. Can you talk about some of the other ways we are affected when we are living in this world of constant stimulation? [0:09:18] RHD: Yeah. Well, I think one interesting area that we're seeing right now in the research is that as we see, for example, emotional health starting to get quite bumpy and there's a lot of turbulence right now about emotional health and mental health, one of the things that I'm really seeing is we're not really giving ourselves the spaciousness to be able to process our emotions. I'll give you this example. Imagine when you're a little kid and you're walking home from school after you've had a bad day, right? You're holding your backpack and you're walking down the street, chances are in the background, your brain is processing all of the day's events, right? Maybe you're not even giving it a lot of conscious thought, but in the background, your brain is organizing the learning, it's making space to process all of it However, now, when that little one is walking home from school, chances are they're scrolling on a phone. They're just adding more content constantly in. It's the steady stream of over-information, and what happens is our brain never gets to really do its job around putting things into place. Even just that notion that we're robbing ourselves the time to process thoughts and feelings and learnings, and we're just always on this treadmill of consumption, versus having time to be a curator and organize some of those thoughts and feelings. Then usually, what we see happens, Paula, is at the end of the day, you might just pass out, because you're exhausted. You're not falling asleep. You're just passing out. Then, because we haven't processed the day, we'll usually get a cortisol spike, I think usually between 1 a.m. and 3 a.m., and we wake up and we feel the sense of worry. We feel the sense of dread, because our body has just got this huge hit of cortisol. Again, we're in this cycle where our default setting isn't really manageable to the reality of how we want to be in our day and really how we want to feel most of the time. [0:11:10] PF: Yeah. It's like, our day is we just grab it and try to hold on. It's given a whole different meaning to seize the day. It's like, now I grab your hat and hold the hell on, kind of thing is how you feel. I think of that from an adult perspective. Then as you mentioned, the child, kids that are growing up in this always on environment, how is that rewiring them for the world? Because we know the studies are showing, each generation is subsequently less happy and more anxious and that is alarming. What does this have? What role does this play in it? [0:11:46] RHD: Oh, absolutely. You're absolutely right. It is very concerning, because the world is unwell and our children very much are unwell in this world in some cases. Again, what I really think is happening is that we've created that baseline, or our emotional home of that place of anxiety, of that place of, again, I don't think we're ever meant, or designed to have access to all of the information that we have. We know historically, there's always been unrest in the world, yet we were sheltered from it in some cases, because we didn't have this 24-hour news cycle, or this news feed always showing us the worst and all that noise and negativity. Our brains weren't designed to be activated in that state of threat, like they are all the time. I can share with you, when I'm working with young ones and especially adolescents is there's not a lot of hope right now in some places. They're not really excited about growing up, because they're not really seeing examples of grownups who are happy and grounded and really thriving. Right now, they're seeing very exhausted people who, again, are just, as you said, they're just barely holding on. I think it's really important that we find ways to model that, yes, we want to be productive and have these good livelihoods and this solid lifestyle. But there's also room for play and joy and this all being meaningful and worthwhile in the process. [0:13:13] PF: Yeah. As adults model that, we're not giving them anything to look forward to. [0:13:19] RHD: Yeah. I can tell you from a very – with radical candor, I recall several years ago, sitting at the kitchen table and my oldest at the time, he was there, and we were chatting and I had a very difficult, no good rotten day at work and this was becoming a theme. He said to me. He goes, “Mama, you told me that if I work really hard and that I set my intentions in the right way,” he said, “I could be anything that I wanted to be when I grow up. Is that true?” I was like, “Yes, Hunter. You can be anything, as long as you set your course in that right way and you work hard.” He paused, Paula, and he looked at me and he said, “Why can't you? Why can't you be anything when you grow up?” Because he goes, “Right now, mama,” he goes, “I just can't imagine, this is what you want to be. This is what you want to do.” [0:14:03] PF: Well, first of all, what an insightful son you have. [0:14:07] RHD: Absolutely. It was this emotional two by four to the face. It was just this moment of just stark clarity, where I realized, I was modeling behavior to my children of like, you know what? Other people can be happy. Other people can have this. But I was just in these trenches and repeating what I wasn't repairing. It was a really big wake-up call for me to say, “You know what? I do want to take this chance. I do want to write these books. I do want to explore my career, so I can model for my kids that there's another way to go about building a livelihood and a lifestyle.” [0:14:42] PF: We'll be right back. Now, it's time for Casey Johnson, Live Happy Marketing Manager and cat owner, to talk to us about PrettyLitter. [CASEY JOHNSON] [0:14:49] PF: Casey, welcome back. [0:14:50] CJ: Thanks. With three cats, PrettyLitter has become an essential part of our cat care routine. I must say, I understand why it's called PrettyLitter, because the packaging and the crystals are gorgeous. They live up to the name. Plus, they're super lightweight and lasts up to a month. That means, changing out the litter boxes less often, which is always a plus when you have a cat. Even better, they're delivered right to my doorstep and come in a small lightweight bag. Now, I don't have huge containers taking up space in our small condo. [0:15:18] PF: That's awesome. We're going to give that same opportunity to our listeners. They can go to prettylitter.com/livehappy and use the code LIVEHAPPY to save 20% on their first order and get a free cat toy. It's prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVEHAPPY to save 20% and get that free cat toy. Again, prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVEHAPPY. Now, let's get back to the show. [SPONSOR MESSAGE] [0:15:44] PF: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. As we're discussing today, most of us are feeling a lot of stress these days. One thing that can add to that stress is comparing ourselves to others on social media. It's so easy to start feeling like your life doesn't measure up. But with help from therapy, you can learn to focus on what you want, instead of what others are doing. Therapy can improve your coping skills and change the way you look at your world. BetterHelp is a great place to start. All you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire and you'll get matched with a licensed therapist. You can always change therapists at any time at no extra charge to make sure you get the therapist who's right for you. It's completely online, so it's flexible, convenient, and works with your schedule. Stop comparing and start focusing with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/livehappy today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com/livehappy. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [0:16:46] PF: One of the things I want to talk about is you talk about proactively planning for stress. [0:16:51] RHD: Yes. [0:16:52] PF: it's so simple, but genius. It's like, yes. Because we know it's coming. Let's talk about that. Talk about what you mean to plan for stress and then how that's going to change the way it affects us. [0:17:04] RHD: Yeah. The strategy we talk about is cope ahead of time. In our culture, many of us have been conditioned, or raised that we need to just go amongst our day and then stress will happen and then we have to recover from it. It's this idea that the stressor comes first and then we do recovery. The reality is, our evenings and our weekends, they're not long enough to repair all the things that we need to fix. Instead, the conversation switches to, okay, if this is what my day looks like, or this season, or this week, how do I make sure I'm coping ahead of time? That means, for example, even things like, planning out your meals, because the last thing anyone wants to do at 6.00 is to try and figure out what they want for dinner, right? We're not doing this because we're really adopting the hype cycle about meal prep and all the delivery things. It's nothing about that. It’s simply, you can decide that you're going to have pancakes for dinner, but just make that decision in the morning when you have good energy, versus waiting till you have that 6.00 energy that doesn't want to be able to make another decision, or a choice. We jokingly talk about how that's a swear word in our house like, “Mom, what's for dinner?” Don't you dare talk like that in this house. [0:18:15] PF: Watch your mouth, son. [0:18:17] RHD: Watch your mouth, exactly. That notion of cope ahead of time, where if you're going to have a stressful day, a stressful season, or even, let's say, a difficult conversation, or a difficult interaction, instead of booking an appointment, or a meeting right afterwards, give yourself the gift of blocking an hour in your calendar, so you can go for a walk, or you can call a trusted friend, or maybe even just do some online shopping to find some digital dopamine. Whatever it is, it's totally cool. It's the idea that you plan ahead of time. You forecast where there likely might be a few little bumps and you already have a strategy outlined. The other part, too, when we think about cope ahead of time, right now, our calendars are so full. There's no time for anything to go off the rails. That way, when a little irritant happens in our day, it almost feels catastrophic, because we're so scheduled. Even this notion of operating at a solid 80% of the capacity of most of the time, 80% of the time, and then you have 20% for wiggle room, if things pop up, or the unexpected happens. [0:19:26] PF: We can't change the amount of things we have to do. Overall, we cannot change our must-do list. We can't change the hours we have in a day. How do we change our mindset to embrace this better? As you say, stress wisely. [0:19:43] RHD: Again, this is the idea, I think, that’s so important is that we're operating a place within our values. What I mean by that is ensuring we're doing the things that matter most and make the matter most for the right reasons. I can give you a quick example, where when people show me their calendar and we say, okay, what are those must do's? What's not even, that's non-negotiable? Often, things that we might feel are non-negotiables, or must dos, actually might not be the way that they are. But we've just told ourselves that they are. I could give you another quick example. I remember one time, my son, he's off at university, he called, he's like, “Hey, I'm on my way home with some friends.” I said, “Okay, but not yet. I just need a few more hours, because I need to make our house look like nobody lives there.” That’s the goal, right? Anyway, so I'm frantically running around, trying to get the house looking like nobody lives there. What was so amazing, in the meantime, he had contacted his siblings who were home. Hunter said like, “What is she doing? What's mom doing that’s so big that we can't come home yet?” The little brother goes downstairs and he sees me wiping the baseboards, right? I'm wiping the baseboards and Jack says to his brother, “She's wiping the white stuff along the bottom of the room.” Hunter is like, “Okay.” Anyway, so a couple hours later, Hunter and his classmates come back to the house and they walk in and Hunter takes his friends, his new friends from university right into the dining room. He's showing them the baseboards. He's like, “Boys, I want you to see how clean my mother's baseboards are.” I was mortified. I was so mortified. I'm like, “Dude, I can't believe you did that. You just outed me like that.” He's just like, “Hey.” He's like, “Mom, if you're going to put it in the effort, I just want it acknowledged.” It was this awesome moment, again, where I was just like, I felt I had to do that before he came home. Paula, he lives in dorms. I can't even tell you the state of – [0:21:37] PF: Right. If there's not food on the floor, it's clean. [0:21:40] RHD: Exactly. In the moment it felt that I had to do this. This was so important. As soon as we take that moment to zoom out and look at the big picture, a lot of this stuff really doesn't feel as must do anymore. I tell you, kids need a present parent. They don't need a perfect parent. They just need us to be present. [0:22:03] PF: Yeah. I love that. Prioritizing, you talked about it a little bit. How do we start that process? Because we've got so many things. Like, list the most important thing. Well, I have three of those. [0:22:15] RHD: Yes. [0:22:16] PF: Where do we get this prioritization going for us? [0:22:21] RHD: Again, one of the things that we talk about is making the invisible visible, right? So many of us, especially when we're the predominant person in the household, we hold so much knowledge that literally it's like, we're these oracles, right? We have all of this knowledge in our head, but none of it's visible. As soon as we start to make it visible, so if we even just grab a piece of paper, or a whiteboard and just start mapping out all the things that we feel we need to do, and then again, just looking at it, taking that step back and being like, is this a must do? Or is this, it would be nice to do? Is this really an alignment with how I want to feel? How I want to be, especially when we think about all that invisible labor in with our family systems. Again, once we start looking at it and getting it out of our heads, putting it on paper, we're going to realize that there's some places where we can get some clarity, and especially around simplification. Things do not need to be as complex, I think, as we're making them out to be right now. [0:23:23] PF: But it's almost become our way to just complicate things. Why are we doing that? [0:23:28] RHD: Well, I think it's very much because we're trying to fit in. We're trying to fit in with the people around us, versus finding our sense of belonging. Our sense of belonging, when we're with the right community, we don't feel the need to try and compete. If you're with your people, with the right friends and the right community, this isn't a competition, because I want you to win as well. It's those people who, yeah, they can show up and have a barbecue and we're not feeling the need to run around the house to make it look that no one lives there. We're not feeling that need, that everything has to be perfect. Because for the right people, that's not what they're interested in. They're interested in the people in the space, not what some of these spaces look like. I think just that competition sometimes and that social comparison, just trying to fit in and be included. I also think as well, there's this notion that we've lost sight that we have way more control in this whole situation than we really acknowledge, because it doesn't have to be this way. We can step out of this race at any time and we can run our own race. We can do it our own way. Again, I think so often, we give up so much of our ability to choose and identify what matters most to my family, or to my community. We just get pulled along in this current. But we can say, we're done. We can say, “This isn't how I want to feel most of the time.” That's what I really encourage people, when we think about these practices that are going to foster self-care, or self-stewardship, it's not like, what do you want to do, or how do you want to look, or what do you want to achieve? The question is, how do you want to feel? I know personally, I want to feel present. I want to feel grounded. I want to have space for joy. I want to have space for spontaneity. I want to have space for us to be able to enjoy our days. They're very, very special to be able to have these opportunities. [0:25:16] PF: As you say that, you can almost hear people saying, “Yes, but.” Because we think, “Oh, yeah. That sounds great. That sounds great for you, but you don't understand how busy my life is, or how much I have going on.” You have all people understand that. [0:25:32] RHD: I do. [0:25:33] PF: When someone is sitting in your office and says that to you, what is your response? [0:25:39] RHD: First of all, my response would be to sit beside the person ear-to-ear, not eye-to-eye and acknowledge that that reality for them is real. That right now, it doesn't seem like there's another way, other than this fullness that we've created. Because we've created these lives, right? Again, I do recognize that there's an abundance of privilege to be able to say, take a break, step back, because some persons are navigating some big complicated situations. Even with that, there is a way to do it in a gentler, more compassionate way. I would want to sit beside that person and say, yeah, what you're feeling is absolutely real and you're not alone. I would love to show you a different way. Even just one of the questions I really love to ask people to move them out in that place of scarcity, where it's like, I don't have enough of time, I'm always chasing, hustling. I love to ask the person this question is, what does it feel like when you are connected with your favorite self, your favorite part of you? Now, this isn't your best self, or your wisest self, or your most integrated self. It's like, what are you feeling when you're your favorite version of you? I love how this question just dismantles a lot of the roles and obligations and the shoulds and I have tos, and it just allows people to reconnect with the parts of them that are like, “Hey.” I hear things follow like, “When I'm my favorite self, I'm not worrying as much. When I'm my favorite self, I roll with things a little better. I don't hold things so tightly. Maybe I'm a little bit more child-like, and I'm up to new adventures, or maybe there's a curiosity, or a silliness.” Again, I think we can reactivate and reconnect with the parts of us that are really, really looking to shine and come out, because they've worked very hard, but I think they need to play as hard as well. [0:27:34] PF: Is a lot of it just recognizing what you want that self to look like? [0:27:39] RHD: I believe so. Again, self-awareness right now is the most critical social-emotional skill that we can have, the self-awareness, when we actually just take a step back and we look at that pig picture and say, “Okay is this working for me? Is this actually how I want to feel? Is this actually how I want my days to be?” As somebody who, I myself, and I write about this in my first book, I experienced a very significant, a catastrophic car accident when I was 16-years-old. That event was very much this turning point for me personally. What happens when you've had these very difficult experiences and this traumatic event is that you get this clarity and this perspective that comes, where I often ask myself at the end of the day, it's like, “If this is my last day today, is this what I want to be doing? Is this what I want to be feeling? Is this where I want to be spending my time and my energy?” Again, the reality, not to sound doom and gloom about forecasting the end of our days, but there's something pretty powerful when you pause and be like, “Okay, if this is my last day, am I going to look back on and said, it was a good day, or I made the best of it?” I think, again, just that awareness and those radical shifts, they're not these – it's interesting. It's the little things done well and those little things aren't that little after all. [0:29:02] PF: Yeah. One thing that I've started doing, a lot of it is due to the recent death of some aunts. That has given me an appreciation for things that I have to do that I don't want to do. But the fact that I can do them, the fact that I'm healthy and I'm strong and I can go do these things, it's really interesting how that reframes the things that you don't care for in life. [0:29:29] RHD: Absolutely. I could share with you just recently, I was working with, again, at a large event, and somebody was saying that, “Oh, gosh. I would do anything for my kids. I would do absolutely anything for them.” I'm like, “That's great.” A woman actually said, “I would die for them. There's nothing I would not do for my family.” I said, “Interesting.” I said, “But would you live for them? Would you take care of yourself for them? Would you prioritize your own well-being and mental health, so you can be here for as long as possible in the most healthy way?” It was just this really interesting moment. One woman actually asked me like, “Okay. Well, what do you do each day to look after yourself, Robyne?” I shared some very simple practices that I like to do. Another woman said, “Well, don't you feel guilty? Don't you feel guilty for doing that?” I said, “No, I feel guilty if I yell at my kids. I feel guilty if I yell at my husband,” or I'm sure with my husband when I know there's things that I can do to be the best version of myself and I don't do them. I don't feel guilty for taking care of myself. I feel guilty when I don't do those things. Then my family's caught up in the blast radius. [0:30:34] PF: I love that. I love thinking that way, and I love being able to remind ourselves that self-care is taking care of everyone around you, because they're all going to benefit from that. [0:30:44] RHD: Absolutely. [0:30:46] PF: We have possibly a difficult fall coming up. No matter where you stand on anything, let's say. There's a lot of stress, and it's already starting to bubble up. Using what you teach in your book, how can we approach this and plan for the stress and make it an easier time? [0:31:07] RHD: You're asking such a great question. There's so many different ways that we can approach it. I think what's really important, when things feel out of control, or there's uncertainty or division, one of the things that we can really lean into are habits, routines, or rituals, where we can make sure that we are okay. We know, for example, that morning routine, taking a few minutes each morning to whether it's go for a walk, or just write in your journal, or have that cup of coffee and just be present, and not start our day opening ourselves up to the world. We want to make sure that we just take a few minutes to ground ourselves. Then when we are able to take that time, make sure our head and our heart are okay. Then we open up to the big world that's out there, we’ll be in a better position to cope and manage with what's going on. The other thing is I think that there's also a place for avoiding certain conversations, if you just know that the outcome isn't going to be positive for either person. What I mean by that is there's some conversations just be willing to walk away from. I think it was actually the actor, Keanu Reeves, who said, he got to the point in his life where if somebody told him that one plus one equals five, he would say, “Cool, you're right,” and walk away. Stop engaging in battles with people who just live to be upset. Some people just live to be upset, and recognizing that that's not how you want to feel. There's just some conversations. That doesn't mean we turn to blind eye to big, significant social justice issues that are unfolding. I'm not suggesting that we come passive. I just want to make sure that we are as well-resourced as possible to make sure that we are okay and our family systems are okay, because that's our best chance to weather a difficult season. [0:32:54] PF: I love that. There's a lot to unpack when we're talking about stress. But right now, what is the one thing that listeners can take away with them, about how they can live their lives with a little bit less stress and learn to manage what stress they do have? [0:33:11] RHD: Yeah, again, a great question. I think where we would start is if we think about the power of our relationships. What I mean by that is we're not meant to do all of this alone. So often, when we're under high levels of stress and have lots of cortisol in our bloodstreams, what happens is we feel this tendency to lone wolf it. That we have to just be more stoic and just hustle through, push through. The reality is when we show up for one another and we nurture those relationships and connect with that collective humanity, it's going to serve us a lot better. Pushing away from that driver, that tendency to shut down, and instead of giving ourselves a timeout, give ourselves a time in, where we are able to connect with the people that matter most to us and be able to see those communities, because that sense of belonging will help us weather whatever stressors come our way. [0:34:01] PF: Robyne, you have a lot to teach us. I thank you for sharing some of it today. I do. I appreciate you coming on the show, and love this book and would love to talk to you some more. [0:34:10] RHD: I would love that. Take good care and thank you for this chance to chat today. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:34:18] PF: That was Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe, talking about resilience and how we can better respond to stress. If you'd like to learn more about Robyne, follow her on social media, check out her book, Stress Wisely, or discover her online classes to learn about resilience, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy Newsletter. Every week, we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That's all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]