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Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Managing Holiday Anxiety With Dr. David Rosmarin [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 444 of Live Happy Now. It's beginning to look a lot like the holiday season, and for many people, that means a whole lot of anxiety. This week, we're going to tell you why that might not be such a bad thing. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and today I'm sitting down with Dr. David Rosmarin, an associate professor at Harvard Medical School, Program Director at McLean Hospital, and Founder of the Center for Anxiety. He's also author of the new book, Thriving with Anxiety: 9 Tools to Make Your Anxiety Work for You. David is here to talk about why the holidays cause so much stress and anxiety, how we can use that to our advantage, and give us tips on getting through the season with our physical and mental well-being intact. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:52] PF: David, thank you for joining me today. [0:00:54] DR: My great pleasure. Thanks for having me on your show. [0:00:56] PF: Well, we are kicking off our holiday season coverage, and we're going to really be diving into some mental health struggles and some of the challenges that we face during this time. You are a great way to kick it off, because your message is about anxiety. Before we talk about what the holidays do to us, I want to talk, you have a new book out and it's called Thriving with Anxiety. For a lot of people, that's a title that just sounds impossible. Can you tell us what you've found about how we can actually thrive with anxiety? [0:01:27] DR: Yeah, absolutely. The holidays are definitely a time for high anxiety and also, a time that many people do not thrive. I can understand the question, why is this book called Thriving with Anxiety? The truth is that anxiety, the more you fight it, the more you try not to feel anxious, the more anxious you're going to feel, because you're just feeding it. You're actually feeding adrenaline into your system, the more you fight against it. The reality is we are going to feel anxious this holiday season. When we're dealing with those family members we don't want to deal with, when we're dealing with those situations and running up a credit card bill when it comes to the presents and all the familiar stuff and eating too much of the holiday meals and feeling overweight and trying to compensate and all sorts of other standard stuff at the end of the year as the weather changes also. There are so many ways that that normal human experience can keep us humble, can keep us connected to others and help us to reach out to friends who we really want to connect with and that we can become more emotionally resilient through facing these difficult feelings, as opposed to trying to, I would say, snuff them out and get rid of them. [0:02:39] PF: What's really natural for us too, as soon as we feel anxiety creeping up, we do try to stop it. Because we don't want to go there, so how do you embrace that? Or is that the right thing to do? [0:02:50] DR: Yeah. Well, I just want to clarify, we do that in our culture. In many other cultures, that's not true. That's actually not true, that anxiety is simply part and parcel of the human experience and understood to be, “Okay, I'm having a bad day.” In the United States, in my income Western countries, we have adopted this culture of, “I can never feel bad. If I do, something's wrong with me. It's a medical diagnosis. I shouldn't be feeling this way. I shouldn't have to feel panicky, or uncomfortable.” I think it's that attitude towards anxiety that has actually created the anxiety epidemic in these countries right here, right here at home. [0:03:29] PF: That's so interesting, because I had never thought of it in that way. Now you founded the Center for Anxiety, and I was curious to know what made anxiety your choice of practice? What made you decide to really look at anxiety? [0:03:45] DR: Personally? Oh, well, that's a personal question. I'm happy to go there, because definitely, I have a good deal of anxiety myself, and there's been a life journey that I've gone through to try to figure out the best ways to accept it and to understand it and to actually use it as a strength, which is something that I'm very proud to be able to do today. I still get anxious from time to time, but I think when that happens, I speak about it with people I trust, with people I love, and it creates more connection. I think it humbles me on a good day, and I accept that there's only so much that I can understand, and only so much I can control, which is hard to do, but it's an important aspect of being human. I think it also helps me relate to others to understand that emotional pain and emotional difficulties are part of life, and certainly part of my patient's lives. I think speaking about it, as one of my patients actually wrote me an email saying, “It makes me more human.” I'll take that compliment .There's not much more I can ask for. [0:04:44] PF: I like that. As the holidays start approaching and are already talking about this, so we know that anxiety comes with the holidays. Is that making it worse, or people do have that anticipatory, “Oh, here it comes”? [0:04:59] DR: Actually, I think it makes it better, which is why I wanted to speak about it at the beginning, and make it clear. What happens with the holiday anxiety, and one of the reasons I think we have so much holiday anxiety, is because a lot of people go in, even though we know we're going to feel anxious. At the end of the day, we know what's coming, right? There's this faint hope that this holiday season, it's going to be different, right? That the conversations with family are going to be great, and I'm not going to overdo it on the Thanksgiving turkey, and I'm not going to – that expectation – we also have this expectation of ourselves, like it should be a joyous season, we should be happy all the time. There becomes a chasm between our expectation for this season, and what actually happens. It's that chasm which actually sets us into anxiety, I believe. [0:05:50] PF: How so? How does that trigger us? [0:05:52] DR: Well, when you expect to feel happy and content, and you don't expect to feel anxious, and then all of a sudden, you're anxious, well, now you're going to be pissed off about the fact that you're anxious, right? You feel this way. That will physiologically trigger more adrenaline into your system, and actually make you more upset and more anxious. [0:06:11] PF: Oh, man. Yeah, so I do want to get here in a couple minutes, talk about how we deal with those feelings and that adrenaline, but we have more stress during the holidays, and that leads to anxiety. Can you talk about the difference between stress and anxiety? Because sometimes I hear it used interchangeably, and they really are two different things. [0:06:32] DR: They are two different things, but they feel the same. The reason is because the physiological processes that are involved are similar. They have the same symptoms, if you will, like having a bit of a racing heart, muscle tension, increased breathing, stomach upset and distress. Some people feel a little bit dizzy and off-kilter, having a little bit less energy. These are common to both stress and anxiety, but there is a difference. Stress is very simple to define. Stress is when you have too much to do and not enough resources to be able to do it. If you're 10 minutes away from an appointment, and you have to be there in four minutes, or two minutes, you're going to be stressed for the residual. In six minutes, or eight minutes, or whatever it is, because you're not there. You have to do something and you only have so much time. The same is true for money. The same is true for emotional resources, and other resources that we might have. Whenever there's this shortfall, or this gap between our demands and our resources, you are going to feel stressed. The way to handle it is by rebalancing and recalibrating. I have to increase my resources and I have to decrease my demands. That's really the only way to manage it. Anxiety is a bit of a different animal. If you understand anxiety, you have to understand fear. I'm going to throw a third juggling ball into the mix. We have stress, then we have fear, and then we have anxiety. What's fear? Fear is a healthy response. It is a healthy thing that your body is programmed to do when there's a real threat which comes upon. If that threat occurs, if somebody's being chased, if someone's being, is a car coming towards you, if there's some a situation where you have to respond immediately in order to protect yourself, you have this built-in mechanism called the fight or flight system and it's triggered by adrenaline. Adrenaline goes instantly into your bloodstream and increases your heart rate, the rate of oxygenated blood flowing through your veins, increases your muscle tone, increases the field of vision, so you're able to see better across the board, and all sorts of amazing physiological changes to keep you safe and healthy. Now, anxiety is the same thing, but there's one small difference. The only difference is that anxiety is a fear response without a real threat. If there's no real threat, if it's in your mind, that would be anxiety. If it's a potential threat. Not something that's clear, present danger in front of you. That would be fear. Without the clear and present danger, that would be anxiety. [0:09:04] PF: Oftentimes though, we feel that it is a real threat. [0:09:08] DR: Yeah. [0:09:09] PF: It seems very, very real when that's happening. [0:09:13] DR: There's nothing wrong with that. Sort of like, your system is just priming itself to be able to react if it needed to. [0:09:19] PF: When it becomes overwhelming, what about when it's so much that it's like, “Okay, I can't breathe, or I can't – There's so much adrenaline, I need to sit down.” Different people can just feel completely overwhelmed by it. How do you regulate that to keep it from hitting that point? [0:09:35] DR: Well, I think, first, we have to reframe it and understand that that means that your neural system is actually intact and your emotional system works. If there were some sort of a threat, your body actually would respond very well to that. Anxiety is an overactive fear response, but fear is a good thing. The first thing we need to do is reframe and understand, if you have an anxiety response, that means that your body is actually working well. Your fear response is intact, which is actually a very healthy thing. It's like testing your smoke alarms and knowing that it works. [0:10:10] PF: I love that analogy. That's really good. [0:10:13] DR: It's a true thing. The other day, it happened to me. I was in a doctor's office and they were doing this procedure. I hadn't eaten much that day and I just – it was an international trip that I was on, so my sleep was off-kilter. They were doing this procedure, which I was not expecting to have. It really, all of a sudden, clammy hands, cotton mouth, feeling a little bit woozy and a little dizzy, which sometimes happens when people have that anxiety response. I said to myself, “Oh, wow. Your fear response works. Here you are.” Under the stress. It was not comfortable, but I just leaned into it. I didn't judge it. I didn't get upset about it. It was over within two minutes. [0:10:54] PF: How do you learn, or did you learn to lean into it like that? Because many of us, anyone who's dealt with anxiety for a long time, we have a pretty well-conditioned response to that. It's going to take a minute to change that thinking. Were there any practices that you did, maybe even when you weren't anxious, to start reframing it in your mind? [0:11:17] DR: There definitely are practices, but the first and foremost step was to get this very clearly into my mind that when I feel anxious, nothing is wrong with me. This isn't something that's going to kill me. Anxiety doesn't kill people. It's just not the way it is to really, truly come to that belief very clearly. Are there practices? There definitely are practices that you can use. One of them is to stop avoiding things that make you anxious. [0:11:50] PF: If a crowd makes you anxious, you need to go shopping in a crowd, not sit at home and [inaudible 0:11:54]. [0:11:56] DR: A 100%. You got to go during the rush. Now, if you want to avoid situations when your anxiety is going to be, I don't know, on a scale of zero to 10, like an eight, or a nine, okay, I get that. You want to work your way up to it? Fine. But definitely go when it's going to be a four or five. Push yourself and experience the anxiety and let it wash over you. [0:12:21] PF: Can we talk about some of the things that might be exclusive to the holiday season? One of those being office gatherings. We have our office party. Some people really cannot stand going to those. It's a very nerve-wracking thing for them on many different levels. Say, you've got to go. You know you need to do this. What are some of the ways that you can prepare yourself going into that? [0:12:44] DR: That's a great question. For some people, this might be an eight, or a nine out of 10. I want to be clear. If that's the case, then you probably do need some professional support and help around this and to strategize. To give some general strategies, I'll tell you what not to do. Don't drink away your anxiety at the holiday party. [0:13:04] PF: No one's ever done that. Come on. [0:13:06] DR: Yeah, never. You'd be surprised in college, how many people – that's not the holiday party, but in college, how many students, how many college students develop alcohol use disorders because of anxiety, because of social anxiety. [0:13:20] PF: Oh, interesting. [0:13:21] DR: In the weeks leading up, getting back to the holiday party analogy, in the weeks leading up to it, think about it. What are you anxious to do? Are you anxious to make small talk? Are you anxious to speak to certain specific people on the team? Are you anxious with people of the same gender, opposite gender? What exactly is it? You're nervous about what to wear? Often, when we feel anxious about these things, we don't think about it. We put it out of our mind. “Oh, I'll deal with it later.” It'll be fine, but you know it's not going to be fine, right? Come up with a plan for whatever it is making you anxious. Think it through and start in advance. If you're nervous about speaking to whoever it is on the team, well, you have a little bit of time now before your holiday parties. Have a conversation with them in advance. Try to strike up a convo and lean into that anxiety in advance. Maybe hard at the holiday party. Might be too late. But while there's time, take it. [0:14:21] PF: Is it possible to use self-talk in the time leading up to that, to flip your thinking on it? I'll try to cheerlead myself into when I have something coming up that I don't want to do, I will start weeks sometimes in advance telling myself how excited I am about this, how great it's going to go. It's going to be fantastic. Even thinking about some of the conversations I'm going to have to really get myself jazzed for it. [0:14:46] DR: I like the idea of psyching yourself up. I think it's a good idea. I think it's also important to have the self-talk, to say, your job is not to have a good time at the holiday party. Your job is to show up, to be nice, that other people will like you, and that you'll be – and to leave at an appropriate time. Does not have to be a fun, fantastic, awesome experience, so people just don't like it and that's okay. The goal is to face the fear, be socially appropriate, and leave. I think that's a much lower bar. If we psyche ourself up to facing the challenge and moving on, I'm totally fine with that one. [0:15:27] PF: Absolutely. Then another biggie is those family gatherings. It's not just the gathering itself. It's all the planning, the demands around it, especially when you're married and there's grandchildren and different people want to pull at it. What's your survival guide for people this holiday season when it comes to dealing with family? [0:15:49] DR: Yeah. I like how you said survival guide, because you do need to, personally to survive. Secondly, is you need a comprehensive guide. I'll give you a couple of ideas. Firstly, it is important again to lean into the uncomfortable feelings and to think about it in advance. What is going, probably going to happen at the party? Which cousin, uncle, family, sibling, whatever is going to make that off-color, uncomfortable, remark at the wrong time? How is that going to go down? How can you prepare for this in advance? Sometimes it doesn't mean saying something in advance like, “Hey, we're really looking forward to seeing you. Could we please avoid the topic of whatever it is.” Dejure. There's plenty that can really upset just other people and say, “Okay, we want to get together and have fun. If you want to have a conversation about that, let's get together another time to talk about that issue, but not – please, if we could avoid it.” You can be a little assertive about those things. I'm a big fan for automating what you got to do. If there's any ways to decrease the stress of preparing. You mentioned preparing meals, or having people over, by ordering in advance, by catering, by doing potluck, by doing these sorts of things, take it. You don't have to do everything yourself. If you're the host, or the hostess, that can really ruin the holidays. There's no reason why it needs to be that way. It might mean having conversations with people around. We'd love to get together, but this is too much for me and this is what I need. This is what we're going to do. [0:17:26] PF: I love that approach, because we're often afraid to say that. Or especially say a woman who's always hosted Christmas, or Thanksgiving at their house and is saying like, maybe she feels overwhelmed, but she doesn't feel right saying, “I can't do it this year.” [0:17:40] DR: Yeah. It could be that it just, you can't do it this year, or you don't want to do it this year. That's a conversation to have with the people around you and to see how they can pitch in and make it a little easier for you. Maybe a little more inconvenient for them. But well, that's part of the conversation. [0:17:58] PF: Yeah. Yeah. Because I know I have a friend who they had a blow-up last holiday season. He's already, I mean, back in September, he was already dreading like, “How are we going to get through this with her family?” It is very important to have that conversation ahead of time, but I think people are also concerned to do that. They're a little wary of bring – they don't want to be the one who brings it up. [0:18:22] DR: Yeah. Yeah, I got that. Part of it is that we live in a society that really values being on your game, being in control, being able to do everything you possibly can, working two jobs and also making Thanksgiving dinner for 50 people, or whatever it is, the proverbial host or hostess is with the most this. I think that there are limits. We're human. People go through periods of higher stress and lower stress. If you're already running ragged going into the holiday season, well, it might be time to accept and to embrace those limits. Actually, that might be the reason to, I shouldn't say the reason. That might be the catalyst for enhancing relationships with family. Often, when people don't say, “Hey, I need help. I can't do this. These are my limits.” That's when the blowups happen, because the stress is so high before you even go in. “I've done so much for this. How could they possibly say that? Don't they understand?” The answer is they don't understand, because you never said anything. [0:19:28] PF: Right. [0:19:29] DR: There's that dynamic. [0:19:31] PF: How important is it to be able to let your family know? I'm not saying your extended family, but just immediately, if you are anxious, if you’re anxious about getting together with your spouse's parents and family, or if there's a lot of anxiety for you, how important is it that you can share that with your partner, or with somebody that you're close to in the family? [0:19:50] DR: I like how you said someone that you're close to, because it doesn't have to be your partner. Ideally, it would be your partner. Sometimes it's hard for you. I can imagine one partner saying to the other, “I really have his trouble dealing with your family.” That's a hard – [0:20:05] PF: What could go wrong there, David? [0:20:07] DR: Right. Those conversations don't always go well. Let's just put it that way. It can go sideways pretty quickly. However, having someone to speak to, even if it's a therapist, or another family member, or a sibling, or someone to strategize about it, to speak to, to bond with over it. I think also, there are certain ways that you can say certain things. It could be that, “I'm really looking forward to having your family over this year. I'm also thinking about last year and these three things happened. I'm wondering how you can help me navigate it, because that was really hard on me when that happened.” Starting with the positive, really focused, being prepared for that conversation. Unfortunately, some spouses can't even have those conversations. That's not all marriages, or partnerships are going to be that close. That's just the way it is, but it's important to speak to somebody about it. Don't weather it alone. [0:21:01] PF: That's important. Yeah, that could be the sound bite of the whole thing. Just don't weather it alone. The holiday season, a specific event, you really do need someone to have your back and to know that you can bounce things off of them. [0:21:14] DR: For sure. I definitely do. [0:21:16] PF: What kind of self-care practices can people do on a daily basis? [0:21:20] DR: Yes, I'm so glad you mentioned self-care. Now, this is one of the ways that anxiety can help you to thrive. Because if you know that you are feeling anxious, you're feeling ramped up, you're feeling stressed, you're having a hard time already, and it's just getting into holiday season, we're only getting started. That's your body signaling to you. You need to increase your sleep. You need to start having breakfast before not eating throughout the day and then gouging at nighttime and feeling terrible about it. You start shutting off your phone half hour before bedtime and also, having a bedtime, starting an exercise routine now, not waiting until January. All of these kinds of things. Even if you just take the sleep. I can't tell you how many patients I've seen, where they were super stressed out and I simply said to them, “I don't want to see you on a regular basis. I just want you to work on your sleep. Get seven to eight hours of sleep for two weeks and then you can call me back.” They called me back and did not need any therapy. [0:22:20] PF: That's amazing. [0:22:21] DR: It's happened multiple times. [0:22:23] PF: Yeah. That TV in the bedroom is a bad, bad thing. [0:22:26] DR: Oh, my God. TV and devices. Do not keep your device next to your bed. Get a regular dumb alarm clock, if you need it. [0:22:35] PF: Yup. If something happens, people will find you. If you need to be contacted – [0:22:38] DR: Yeah. So, yeah. [0:22:41] PF: Yeah, that's really important. That sleep. Then also, this is – we had already alluded to it. We don't eat properly. This isn't about overeating. This is about being sure that your body is getting the nutrients and getting the nutrition that it needs, because when we're stressed out and when we're anxious, we are burning through our calories. How important is it that we start really looking at, making sure we're getting some good nutritional food in us, too? [0:23:08] DR: It is important. Sleep, I would say, is more of a card to play. Exercise, I would also say is another more important card. Nutrition certainly is up there. One of them also is caffeine and alcohol. Those come up a lot during the holidays in both amounts. When you have caffeine, even one cup of Coke, or Dr. Pepper, these are highly caffeinated beverages, or coffee. If you're having it in the evening, or even after 3, 4 pm, 150, 200 milligrams of caffeine, you're probably going to have trouble sleeping at night time. I think it's time probably to kick the afternoon Coke habit if you're going to go into the holiday season and be prepared. Have those good night's sleep at a regular time. Wake up and do your thing. Then the other one is alcohol, which we mentioned, which can – just to be mindful of how you're drinking, when you're drinking, who you're drinking with, why you're drinking. All of these are important to keep in mind. [0:24:03] PF: That's a really tough one during the holiday season. I know we have two events this week, during the week. I wouldn't normally go out and have a cocktail, but that's going to be probably the reality of it. As you said, we are just getting started. [0:24:19] DR: Yeah. I don't have a problem with drinking, or social drinking. Where people get into trouble is, if you are drinking when you feel anxious, especially if you are drinking, because you feel anxious, that's where people can get into trouble. They end up overdoing it. They end up having to recover from it the next day. [0:24:39] PF: If someone's feeling anxious and it's like, “I'm just going to have this glass of wine and that's going to solve it.” What should they do instead? [0:24:47] DR: It's hard to say, but try to lean into the anxiety more and embrace it. Understand that it's the holiday party might not be festive or fun and that's okay. Can you weather that storm? What I would prefer to see is somebody makes it through the party, they make it through dinner, they're not drinking, they're dealing with their anxiety, they leave early, but a socially appropriate time to leave. They go home and then they have a glass of wine. That would be okay with. [0:25:16] PF: That's great. Yeah, that makes a little bit more sense. [0:25:18] DR: Drinking in response to your anxiety, you're really rewarding yourself at the end of the day. I worked hard and here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to enjoy it now. Then you'll actually enjoy the drink, as opposed to – [0:25:28] PF: That's what I was going to say. It's probably a lot more enjoyable, because you don't have this – you’re just trying to get this medicine in you. [0:25:34] DR: It is self-medication. It's exactly what it is. People, aside from the alcohol abuse, the propensity of the risk for abuse and independence, even for anxiety, it's not a great idea. [0:25:47] PF: Yeah. Yeah. As we enter this holiday season, what is the one thing that you would like everybody to keep in mind? We are going to tell them about your book and how they can find it. If you had, if this was a masterclass and this is the one thing they're going to take away, what do you hope they will keep in mind this holiday season? [0:26:05] DR: Yeah. I'll tell you right now. Don't fight your anxiety. The more you fight the anxiety, the worse it gets. Instead, understand that your anxiety is there to strengthen you, to increase your emotional resilience, to help you bond with other people when you speak to those one or two other people about it. And to help you to recalibrate and rebalance and understand that there's only so much we can do. There are human limits. If you're feeling really jazzed up and anxious, well, or stressed out, I should say, it's time to rebalance. One thing I have to say is don't fight it. Do not fight your anxiety. Let it be there and let it teach you what it means to teach you. [0:26:42] PF: Very well said. David, thank you so much for joining me today. This is very insightful. I know our listeners are going to get a ton out of it as we move into the holiday season. [0:26:51] DR: I hope so. Thanks so much for having me on your show. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:26:58] PF: That was Dr. David Rosmarin, talking about anxiety. If you'd like to learn more about David, check out his new book, Thriving with Anxiety: 9 Tools to Make Your Anxiety Work for You. Follow him on social media, or download a free guide on anxiety. Just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: The Joy of Senior Pets With Dr. Julie Buzby [INTRO] [00:00:08] PF: Welcome to Happiness Unleashed with your host, Brittany Derrenbacher, presented by Live Happy. November is Adopt A Senior Pet Month, and that makes it the perfect time to talk to Dr. Julie Buzby. Julie is an integrative veterinarian with a special place in her heart for senior pets. She's here to talk with Brittany about some of the misconceptions we often have about senior dogs and why, in many cases, a senior pet may be the best option for adoption. So listen in as she and Brittany talk about what senior pets can do for us and what we should be doing for them. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:41] BD: November is National Senior Pet Month. So let's just dive right into this topic that is near and dear to my heart. Dr. Buzby, why are you passionate about helping senior dogs? [00:00:54] JB: Oh, man. I just love senior dogs for so many reasons. I am an integrative veterinarian certified in animal chiropractic and veterinary acupuncture. So the majority of my patients at this point in my career are senior dogs. People are coming for mobility management, pain management. So I get to spend my day with them. I mean, just inherently, they just are so sweet. They've lived through so much. They've seen so much. Their little sweet, gray muzzles, like they just have such an expressive unconditional love oozing out of every hair follicle. But I think the other thing that is in the back of my mind is they have, for the most part, lived with these families for a long time, a decade or more. I've heard so many stories over the years of how they have been there for their person through a bad divorce, through the loss of a spouse, through the loss of a child, through whatever tragedy life might bring. That dog was their rock and provided unconditional love. Whenever they were – whatever emotional state they were in, they could count on the dog to be there for them. I just respect that, and they just play such an important role as a family member. I just appreciate and love them for everything about them. [00:02:16] BD: For the purposes of this conversation, just so listeners have background on many of the topics that we're going to be covering, what age are dogs considered seniors? [00:02:27] JB: That's a fabulous question, and the answer has evolved over for the years. So when I graduated from vet school, there was this big senior at seven campaigning, going on by one of the major companies in our industry. We now know there was just, I think, a study out of the Texas A&M University Vet School, I think, in 2019 that really kind of put things in perspective. There's this linear – well, there isn't a direct linear correlation that just kind of always goes up on this trajectory evenly, this line that goes up on a graph. We now realize there's more of a line that goes up, and then it plateaus off. So it's not just, hey, multiply by seven, and you have your dog's age. Of course, we all know that larger breeds, giant breed dogs tend to have a shorter lifespan than smaller dogs. So to answer the question, I would say small dogs, maybe 10-plus. For a senior medium-sized dogs, eight to nine. Large breed dogs, giant breed dogs, six maybe and seven for large breed dogs. So it just varies by the dog's height, weight, breed. [00:03:33] BD: Right. When we're talking about integrative vet care, how do you describe that? How would you describe what integrative and holistic approach for our pets? Like what does that mean? [00:03:48] JB: Yes. So I'm not sure this is the appropriate universal definition, but I'll give you my definition. So holistic care, for me, is alternative. It's alternative to Western medicine, chiropractic, acupuncture, Chinese herbs. The list goes on. Then, of course, Western medicine, we think of the traditional medications, surgery, just everything that the standard veterinarian trained by a US or even foreign veterinary school probably delves into. So as an integrative veterinarian, I like to integrate both. So for my patients, so many times, my patients come to me, and I'm “the last resort.” Like, “Can you help our dog? We've already done what we can do.” So I don't throw Western medicine out the window. A lot of my patients are still on medications. Or let's say I have a dog that has a cruciate tear. I still consider surgical therapy, like a surgical correction of that knee to be like the gold standard treatment. Not everybody opts for that based on budget, the dog's age, the dog's status. I respect that, and we work around all kinds of parameters because every single dog and every single family is different. But I still do recommend medicine and surgery. That's the point. Then I integrate all the additional wonderful tools that I am blessed to have in my toolbox and kind of craft the best thing for each individual dog using the best of all the worlds. [00:05:24] BD: I love that this is becoming a more normalized conversation for our care for animals. In the therapeutic work that I do with humans, I believe in a holistic mind-body-spirit approach. So I love that this conversation is extending out into our fur babies. We have a special needs dog here named Samson Supernova, and he goes every month to get acupuncture and laser. He’s on a bunch of different like Chinese herbal supplements, all supplemental care that helps with his congenital breathing problem. So it supports his system holistically for the entirety of his life, and I view it as like a upstream prevention method. [00:06:05] JB: Well said, yes. I mean, one of the things I learned in my chiropractic training is we've got like an iceberg of symptoms, and the tip of the iceberg might only be 10%. So 90% of the iceberg is under the water developing, and maybe we don't even – well, we don't. Maybe a very in-tune pet parent might see little glimpses and, hopefully, bring them to the attention of the veterinarian. There’s so many times that I couldn't even begin to count them of where someone has said to me like, “You know, I don't even know what to make of this.” Or, “This is probably silly but –” Then they tell me something that's like a really big clue for me, especially thinking in the traditional Chinese medicine box. So any change, anything you note, it's worthwhile to bring to your vet's attention. But back to our analogy, if we wait until we're at the tip of the iceberg with symptoms, it's so much harder to successfully treat and address, manage, possibly reverse that. So when we're working in the preventative realm, that is 1,000% for human and veterinary health where we want to be. [00:07:16] BD: Why do you think that this is so important and unique for caring for senior animals? [00:07:23] JB: Well, I do think it's appropriate across the whole spectrum. However, senior dogs tend to have the issues with pain management, with mobility management. I'm a huge believer that mobility is a dog's greatest asset. They're made to move. They're pack animals. They travel. So I just think those are the dogs that we see more commonly for it. Also, these modalities just really can work wonders for pain and mobility. They just seem to be really perfect for those conditions. Ideally, vast majority of situations don't have any side effects as well, which is really nice compared to maybe more traditional Western medicine. [00:08:05] BD: Yes. This month being all about adopting a senior pet, what are some of the unique rewards that we as humans can experience from adopting a senior dog and for caring for senior pets as a whole? [00:08:21] JB: Right. So what I tell people when I recommend adopting seniors is you know what you're getting. If you get a puppy, you don't really know what you're getting, both in terms of like size and look and personality. Things aren't fully developed. So you might get an idea. But when you adopt a senior, you get what you see. For so many of us that have busy lifestyles, with family travel outside the home, working outside the home, I think just a senior dog slips right into family life so much easier than a puppy or young dog that you may have to still house train and keep them from chewing your furniture. They’re just so much more high-energy. I mean, that's its own reward in and of itself. Don't get me wrong. They’re so much fun. But a senior dog is like more of your ready-made pet, ready to go. I think senior dogs – I just was having a conversation last week with someone who said that they adopted this senior. Well, it was a middle-aged dog, but it had been in the shelter for a long time. He said, “My wife and I had agreed that we were not going to sleep with this dog. We have other dogs.” They have a bunch of dogs. “We had other dogs we slept with. This dog we were going to train to not sleep with us.” The wife came home from a late-night work shift, and the dog was under the covers, like snuggled in on the pillow next to the guy. She said, “What happened?” He said, “He just looked at me with this look, and he was like – it was gratefulness. Like you could see the gratefulness on this dog's face, and I just scooped him right into bed.” All my animals have been adopted. It seems a little crazy, but I truly think like they're grateful and senior dogs all the more. So there's this altruistic piece as well. Yes, here's all the benefits for the people. But if we just think about senior dogs who've maybe been in a home their whole life, that's what they've known. Then for whatever tragic reason, they now found themselves homeless in a rescue or a shelter. Just to say, you know what? I'm going to give this dog a life. For whatever many months or years they have left, I'm going to just adopt this dog and give them that security of living out their golden years in a home full of love. [00:10:38] BD: I'm so glad that you use the word grateful. I really wanted to pick your brain about this because this is November. What a time to be talking about gratitude and thanks. I believe that senior animals can uniquely teach us. Teach us about gratitude and thanks. Why do you think that senior animals are able to uniquely model that to us, this gift of gratitude and thanks? [00:11:05] JB: I keep ascribing these human traits to animals, and I'm not sure that's a wrong thing. I mean, we just talked about gratefulness. So now, I'm going to bring up wisdom. I feel like senior dogs have – just like people, when they get gray, and they've got some inherent wisdom just from living life. I feel like senior dogs might get that, too, where they're just like older and wiser. That can translate, I think, into that gratitude. So I don't know that I know the answer to your question. I just know that I have experienced it personally. [00:11:37] BD: Yes, yes. We used to have a house full of seniors. They all recently over the last couple years crossed over the rainbow bridge. But that period of time in my life where we had seven, eight seniors in our house was the calmest, most peaceful, loving container that I have ever experienced. Now, we have a lot of younger dogs, and the energy has shifted. But I love this conversation that we're having because there is – often, the seniors are overlooked in shelters. They're overlooked in rescues. I think this conversation kind of shifts that narrative. What can we expect differently from adopting a senior dog that maybe has been a misconception? [00:12:27] JB: I think people assume maybe even subconsciously it’s too painful to adopt a senior dog because they're going to die soon. I mean, I think that's in the back of people's minds, and that's too painful to go through for myself or maybe for my kids. I mean, one of the things that we laugh about as veterinarians is like for the most part, dogs don't come in with perfect records. So you don't even know their age. I mean, we don't really know. I've had so many people adopt what they thought was a senior dog and just have many, many, many, many, many more years together. For the most part, in my experience, I've been a vet for 25 years, people adopt a dog, a senior even, and have years together. So granted it's not an entire lifespan, but there's no guarantee in buying a puppy or adopting a younger dog that you're going to have all those years together anyway. So I think dogs live in the moment. It's one of the best things about them, and we can learn from that. I think it would just be great if people didn't just worry so much about the future and just embrace the present and say whatever time we have left, and I'm just going to say in the majority of cases, I do believe that that's years, we're just going to soak up the love and time together. I just can't ever – I can't think of a case where anyone's ever done that and regretted it. [00:13:50] BD: Right. Never. Talk about imparting wisdom, that loving presence and being present in the moment with our animals is something that is just uniquely modeled to us and those reciprocal relationships. But, also, like what a gift? What a karmic gift to give back to an animal in that way and care for them in their last years of life and make sure that they are given the most love that they could experience. I want to shift a little bit into the care perspective because this is something that you know a lot about. What is your advice to folks that might go to a shelter, adopt a senior dog? What are some of the biggest tips you have in caring for a senior pet? [00:14:34] JB: Thank you for letting me talk about this because it's important. So number one is veterinary care. With younger animals going to the vet, once a year is probably fine, unless they instruct you otherwise. Senior pets, you need to be there at least twice a year because things change. I mean, even if it's not senior at seven, and we do the multiplication times seven, still the lifespan is accelerated. The years are passing by, accelerated compared to human life. So you wouldn't go to the doctor every five years or seven years. Important to go to the vet, so they can get a tip-to-tail complete exam and blood work at least every six months. That's just a way that we can be ahead. We talked about preventive medicine. We can be ahead of changes. We can stay ahead of concerns and always more likely to have successful outcomes when we catch things early versus late. So that's number one We may need to make some changes in the home for senior dogs, depending on their ability or special needs status. This can be everything from using a nightlight at night for a dog. I think that's a real help for senior dogs who might struggle at night if they're up and about. One thing that senior dogs can experience is a little bit of doggy dementia with age. One of the ways this manifests is like a disturbed sleep-wake cycle, so they may be a little bit more up at night, and nightlights can help with that. If they struggle on steps, I like to recommend putting a strip across the front of steps to really demarcate. Sometimes, depth perception can be an issue. So putting a strip, a brightly colored strip, a white strip, maybe even a strip with a little grip on the front of each step can be a help. I've had clients like remove the legs off of their couch or put the [inaudible 00:16:24] on the floor to help them get up and down more easily. Certainly, ramps and steps. So those are some potential home modifications. Then finally, use it or lose it. Like these dogs need to be out. They need to be getting the stimuli to their brain of life in the outdoors, the smells, and the sights, and the noises. So even if the walks have to get shorter and doing like more frequent really tiny walks, really short walks, that's fine. But they still need to be in the outdoors. They still need to get their exercise to maintain whatever mobility and muscle mass they have. [00:16:59] BD: Yes. Going off of mobility, there's a product that we've used in this house over the last couple of years, and you developed that product. Can you tell the listeners more about that? [00:17:12] JB: Yes. So ToeGrips is my passion because as a veterinarian, I get to help one dog at a time. Because my appointments are very comprehensive with the holistic medicine added into the Western and the exam, they're usually like an hour-long. So there's only so many hour-long appointments I can get in in a week. But ToeGrips have allowed me to really have an impact on senior dogs around the world, and I'm so thankful for that opportunity. They are non-slip nail grips that go on the tips of dogs’ nails and give them traction on hard surface floors. The biggest thing we deal with is skepticism. People see them and think like, “Oh these little things, what could they possibly do?” But if you understand that a dog's natural mechanism for traction is to engage the nails like soccer cleats, that's why you don't see dogs slipping on carpet or on grass because that works. But hard nails can't grip hard floors. So just by giving them a little grip on the nail tips, voila, we have dogs that can get up off the floors and walk on the floors with traction and confidence. [00:18:16] BD: Our holistic vet recommended this product to us a few years ago, and one of our younger uniquely able dogs uses it as well. He's actually afraid of hardwood floors and transitional spaces. They have really helped boost his confidence and his mobility when he's running around the house. So, yes, thank you. [00:18:36] JB: I love that. Yes, confidence. I mean, we've talked about doggy wisdom and doggy gratitude. Doggy confidence is a very real thing. Early on in the development of this product, I was talking to a veterinary colleague whom I love. She's like a brilliant veterinarian and wonderful bedside manner. But I was talking about how ToeGrips have really impacted my patients’ confidence. She kind of laughed, and she's like, “Confidence? Why would I care about my patients’ confidence?” It broke my heart because it's a real thing, and confidence directly ties into quality of life. So these dogs that have to live in fear in their homes because they're afraid of slipping, they're afraid of getting like a slip and fall injury, especially if they've experienced that, and they're like afraid for it to happen again. We'd need our dogs to be able to live in a fear-free environment, and slipping is a very real part of that, so. [00:19:29] BD: I love to hear that you experience the confidence. Yes. I mean, and that's part of the holistic care, right, is to think about more of those outside-the-box supplemental things that we can do for our dogs to have the best quality of life, the best joy in life. I mean, mobility, that's been a huge part of this conversation, especially with senior dogs. In your experience with senior dogs and with folks that adopt them and bring them in, can you talk about the special benefits senior citizens can receive from adopting a senior pet? [00:20:03] JB: That is something that I just find fascinating to pair that up, right? So first of all, I think they can identify, right? I mean, there's some sort of root hope that comes from saying like, “Here's the senior dog, and I'm going to rescue them.” But it comes to – it begs the question that I've seen on bumper stickers like, “Who rescued whom,” right? So senior citizens often are more associated statistically with loneliness, and a pet is the best solution for that issue. I mean, you've got a 24/7 unconditional love in fur living with you. Also, we know that people with pets are more likely, especially dogs, to be active. So it gives them a reason to get up in the morning. They've got to get the dog out. It really can give them a purpose in life that may be flagging for a senior citizen who's retired and maybe not as engaged as they once were with a community. Now, they have a reason to be engaged, and that dog can even help them make friends, break into friend groups in their neighborhood or community. So it's the perfect win-win. [00:21:11] BD: I love the language that we're using in today's conversation; gratitude, thanks, confidence, purpose, loving presence. It just so illuminates the gifts that animals bring into our lives but, uniquely, in this conversation, senior dogs. [00:21:29] JB: Then there's the physical benefits, right? So we know statistically that having a dog in your life provides some distinct physical benefits. One of which is lower blood pressure, which can be good for people. So I was thinking about my Chihuahua who's a little terror, but we love him to death. So my mom is a senior citizen. She's turning 78 this month, and she has high blood pressure. My son and the Chihuahua stayed with her for a week, and the Chihuahua just wanted to be on her lap, and she was like petting the dog all week. At the end of the week, she had a routine wellness exam, and her blood pressure was the lowest it had ever been. We're all like, “It was Beanie.” So for sure, physical benefits as well for all of us and especially senior citizens. [00:22:12] BD: Every episode, I like to ask our guests, and this is probably a difficult question for you because you've had so many animals in and out of your life, both personally and professionally. But we like to share a story of an animal that has done magic or healing in unassuming ways in your life. So could you please share your favorite story of an animal that has helped transform your way of seeing animals and interacting in the world? [00:22:41] JB: Yes. So I could really go on with lots of them, but I will pick Zeke, who was a black lab. Well, he was – he looked like a black lab mix. We DNA-tested him, and he didn't have any black lab. He had Chow and Shepherd and all. He had like nine things. We adopted him years ago for one of my sons who has ADHD and is just like a restless – like he's just a ball of energy, and he had night terrors, and he would sleepwalk with that. We adopted Zeke not thinking like, “Oh, let's solve the night terrors with the dog.” That wasn't the plan at all, but it just happened that we adopted Zeke. Zeke bonded with Daniel, and he started – it was like the other story I told. By like the third day, he was in bed sleeping with Daniel, and Daniel's night terrors stopped. They stopped like instantly, and he never had them again. [00:23:37] BD: What a gift. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Let's say we have listeners at this very moment that are considering going to a shelter and adopting a senior dog or a senior cat. What's your call to action for them? [00:23:53] JB: My call to action is I'm going to go on out on the limb and say I stake my reputation and name on the fact that you would not regret it. You will not regret it. [00:24:04] BD: You heard it here. Dr. Buzby says go out and fill your life with so much joy by adopting a senior pet this month. Thank you so much, Dr. Buzby, for coming on the show, and imparting so much wisdom, and sharing such beautiful stories about your work and all of the magic that you bring into your community. [00:24:25] JB: Thank you for the opportunity. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:24:27] PF: That was Brittany Derrenbacher talking with Dr. Julie Buzby about the joys of adopting a senior pet. So, Brittany, I really enjoyed that conversation. I know this is a topic that is near and dear to your heart. As I was listening to this, I'm like I have to know what resonated most with you. [00:24:44] BD: Well, first, I have to share that I was so excited to even like say her name, Dr. Buzby. How fun is that? All week, I was like, “I can't wait to say her name.” [00:24:54] PF: That's terrific. [00:24:56] BD: But the biggest part of the conversation for me that stood out is just, and this month is so important to talk about, the gratitude. Senior animals bring so much gratitude into our lives and are so thankful for just being given a space to feel safe and to feel cared for and loved and seen. I think that is such a magical gift. So any opportunity that we have to illuminate that I love senior and special needs animals, that is, obviously, our specialty here at Luna Bell’s. But any opportunity that I think we have to encourage people to go out and bring that gift into their homes and continue like bringing that good karmic energy into the universe, let's do it. [00:25:43] PF: I love it. I love it. Yes. That's – it's such a powerful thing to bring in a senior pet. I know you and I have talked about when I first got involved in rescue, that's what I did. I did the seniors, and I saw a lot of dogs over to the other side. It was heartbreaking, but there was also something so rewarding, knowing that this animal, oftentimes, they've been dumped because families don't want to deal with the decline of a dog. Or who knows what led to that situation. But to know that that dog died with love, and that's how I feel. Like no animal should have to just die alone and unloved. I know that as heartbreaking as it was for me, there was a satisfaction and a joy in knowing that that animal was being ushered over properly. [00:26:28] BD: It costs a little bit upfront for senior animals. Yes, there is maybe a shorter time that we're spending with them. But the gifts that they bring into our life far outweighs any type of vet care or monetary situation that you might be in with senior pets. I look back at all of the animals that have been in our lives that have lived long senior lives, and I don't think about any of that stuff. I just think about how much I loved them, how much they taught me, how much they brought into my life, how much joy they brought into Matthew and I's lives. That outweighs everything. [00:27:04] PF: Absolutely. Well, that was a great interview. There was so much to take away from it. If our listeners want to learn more about you, the work that you’re doing, learn about Dr. Buzby, we're going to have all of that on our landing page. They can follow you on social media and learn more about the ways that pets enhance our lives. So anybody can go to our website at livehappy.com. Click on the podcast tab, and you will see Happiness Unleashed there. Just click on that, and you can join us. Brittany, thank you, again, for another fantastic episode, and we will see you back here next month. [00:27:35] BD: See you soon. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Rethinking Gratitude With Casey Johnson [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 443 of Live Happy Now. November is National Gratitude Month. This week, we're rethinking everything we know about how to practice gratitude. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and every year around this time, we at Live Happy like to celebrate gratitude. But this time, we took a slightly different approach. So I'm sitting down with Live Happy’s Social Media Marketing Manager, Casey Johnson, who joined me on a quest to find unconventional ways to create or add to your gratitude practice. As you're about to hear, we found some great new ways to build gratitude, and we're even going to tell you how to get the whole family involved. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:45] PF: Hey, Casey. How's it going today? [00:00:47] CJ: Good. How about yourself? [00:00:49] PF: I'm doing great. It's gratitude month. [00:00:52] CJ: Yes, our favorite time of the year. [00:00:55] PF: It is. That's like such a big deal for us. I mean, I know people think we're like these gratitude geeks, which I guess we are but – [00:01:02] CJ: We definitely are. Yes. [00:01:04] PF: But it's fun, and what I'm excited about this year is we do talk about gratitude so much. So we wanted to find a way to approach it a little bit differently. You and I had conversations around that. I think because of that, I'm going to let you explain what we decided to do. [00:01:20] CJ: Yes, absolutely. This year, we wanted to look for, like you said, some new ways to practice gratitude that maybe we haven't thought about in the past. For example, when most people think of gratitude, they think about like jotting down a few things in your journal that you're grateful for, which is a great practice. I mean, I do this often. But sometimes, you can feel burnt out from doing the same gratitude practice over and over. Sometimes, you might just stop practicing gratitude because you feel burnt out doing the same practice. So with that being said, it turns out that there's a lot of cool things that we hadn't thought of, and I'm excited to jump in. [00:02:00] PF: Well, I know, and it was kind of fun. We were like gratitude detectives. [00:02:04] CJ: We were with our magnifying glass. [00:02:07] PF: Yes, we were a little bloodhound there. Yes. We were looking for it. It's like, “Okay, what can we do differently?” Like you said, there's a lot of different ways. What I love about this is we do kind of get caught up in like, okay, this is how we practice gratitude, and we don't really think outside the box. There was even a study that showed in one of the Asian countries that the young people who were asked to practice gratitude by keeping a gratitude journal started becoming depressed because they felt like they didn't have any new things. So it became counterproductive to just keep a gratitude journal. I think that kind of speaks to what you were saying. You can start feeling burnt out on it, and you want something new. [00:02:47] CJ: Exactly. [00:02:48] PF: One thing that I learned this year, and this was really life-changing for me, I interviewed Dr. Tal Ben-Shahar earlier this year, and he talked about his gratitude practice. This is something he has done every day since September of 1999, and he can tell you the exact day. But he said he uses Barbara Frederickson's theory of heartfelt positivity. So what he does is when he writes down something he's grateful for, he doesn't just stop there. So he's not like, “I'm grateful for –” Like in my case, my dog, Josie. What I would do is like I'm going to write down Josie's name, and then I'm going to shut my eyes, and I'm going to think about a time that I spent with her and how it made me smile, how it made me feel. Really take myself back in that time and feel not just the gratitude I have for her being in my life but feel that positive emotion that she brings to me. I thought, wow, that is such a powerful way to harness gratitude, and it's super effective. [00:03:48] CJ: I absolutely agree, and that reminds me of something I saw today actually on Instagram. I learned about this term called glimmer. Have you heard of glimmers? [00:03:59] PF: I've been hearing about that. Yes. Tell us about that. [00:04:01] CJ: So it's basically like the opposite of a trigger. So like glimmers are those micro-moments in your day that make you feel joy, happiness, or gratitude. So for myself and even for our listeners, like once you train your brain to be on the lookout for glimmers and even just gratitude, the more these tiny moments will begin to appear. When you were talking about Josie, it kind of reminded me of glimmers. [00:04:29] PF: That's very cool. Yes. That's exactly what it is. Like it's bringing that to mind, and it brings back those feelings. So you had one that I liked that you were talking about called a portrait in gratitude, which is it all ties into this. So you want to tell us what that's about? [00:04:45] CJ: Yes. So I recently read about this insomnia hack. So here's what it said. If you can't sleep at night, you have trouble sleeping, I have trouble falling asleep sometimes myself, they said to think of something or someone you appreciate and all of the reasons or memories surrounding that person or thing. So it's like a super simple practice that you can do just laying in bed, and it'll naturally relax your mind and body, which in return will help you fall asleep. Hopefully, you'll be falling asleep with a heart full of gratitude. [00:05:21] PF: That's nice and that changes how you wake up, too. [00:05:24] CJ: It does. Yes. It really does. When I go to bed at night, like my evening routine, I try to make sure like it's full of positivity and things like that. I try not to watch like True Crime before I go to bed. Otherwise, like – [00:05:38] PF: Or the news. [00:05:39] CJ: Or the news. Yes, seriously. But, yes, no, you're totally right. [00:05:43] PF: You could also use that when you're waking up, I would think, because I don't have trouble falling asleep. I'm like I see the bed, I hit the bed, I am the bed. [00:05:53] CJ: I’m so jealous of people like you. [00:05:56] PF: But on the other hand, like waking up I need to do slowly. I feel like, for me, that's one that I would use as I'm waking up and trying to enter my day. [00:06:06] CJ: Yes. [00:06:07] PF: Yes. That is very cool. One of the things that I found talked about the five senses of gratitude. We know that sound and smell are really, really powerful. What the five senses of gratitude is about is just closing your eyes. We close our eyes a lot in this practice, I guess. Don't do this while you're driving. So when you're – like whatever moment that you're in and to find that gratitude for that moment just kind of close your eyes and take in the sounds, the smells. Like feel what's around you, the texture of what's around you, and even the taste. Then, yes, look around and look at what you appreciate and what you see. Just kind of take time to drop into that and really spend time in that moment, feeling each sense, and identifying it. [00:07:03] CJ: I really like that. It kind of reminds me of like a gratitude meditation almost. [00:07:09] PF: Yes, yes. Because it's hard to be stressed out if you are completely absorbed in your surroundings, unless you're in really stressful surroundings. But, yes, you're going to relax and you're really going to get rid of whatever is hanging around you that day, whatever might be going on in your life, and just be in that moment with all five of your senses. [00:07:32] CJ: Yes. I love that. [00:07:34] PF: You had another one because I know – [00:07:35] CJ: Yes, I did. So we talk a lot about being grateful for what we have. But one way to experience more gratitude can be to imagine our lives without something. So, for example, sometimes when I feel stressed, I'll close my eyes, not behind the wheel. I'll close my eyes and imagine that – this kind of ties into what you're talking about, but anyway. So I'll close my eyes and imagine the space around me. I'll try to see how many things I can picture in my mind that I'm grateful for. So this could be anything like Wi-Fi, my phone, my couch. Really makes me sound like a millennial but these things are truly difficult to live without in our modern world. Maybe not the couch. That's just kind of a nice thing to have. But like Wi-Fi and phone, like it's so important to be connected. That's how we do our work, stay connected with loved ones. Anyway, after you imagine those things, then open your eyes and just like take a moment and just take it all in and appreciate everything as it is. It's just a way of – it's different from gratitude journaling because you're really just like leaning into like the simplicity of these objects that we don't realize how much we rely on daily. [00:09:00] PF: Yes. When I find that really useful, too, is when I'm having a bad technology day, and you're at that point where you just really want to throw the computer out the window. Instead, if you can do that, if you can be like, “All right. Well, what would I do without this computer?” I just try to look at it differently and try to find this gratitude or appreciation. Like, yes, even though this technology is wreaking havoc on my mental health at this very moment, it allows me to work. It allows me to work with Live Happy. It allows me to talk to people around the country for the podcast. There's so much that it allows me to do. Another way that that's useful, and this is something I learned from Stacy Kaiser, the therapist, and she had been on our show a few times. She did a post one time, talking about when you are frustrated with your partner, your spouse, any close loved one, imagine your life without them, and it will give you a different perspective. It does. I've used that many, many times ever since I read that from her, and it's kind of that same thing. It gives you gratitude when you think about the fact that they may not always be in your life. That is a cool way to do gratitude is to like look at it. Like reverse it, instead of looking at it as what you have being grateful for. When you think of yourself without it, you’re grateful for it. That was another thing that I found that was called a reverse bucket list. It kind of goes along that same vein, where instead of thinking about all the things that we still want to do because that can create a sense of FOMO in itself. Like, “Oh, man. I still want to go,” whatever. Climb Mount Kilimanjaro. I don't want to do that, by the way. Just saying that. [00:10:47] CJ: Just for an example. [00:10:49] PF: Yes, yes. But instead, thinking about the things that you have done that were just amazing that you've already checked off that so-called bucket list. I think that – Cindy, my partner, is a photographer, and that's been really helpful because we've had amazing trips. All of the art in our home are photos that she's taken, and they all have a – [00:11:10] CJ: Oh, amazing. [00:11:12] PF: Yes. They all have a special meaning because it was somewhere fantastic that we went, and I love that about it. This reverse bucket list allows you to go back and look at the things that you've done and the gratitude that you have for having been able to do that. [00:11:30] CJ: I love that, and I just love that all of your art is her photography. That is goals. [00:11:37] PF: Yes, it is. It's fun. It's fun. [00:11:39] CJ: Yes. You know, speaking of like gratitude turnarounds, this made me think of another thing that I recently read. For me, I've started doing this. When my negative thoughts start to spiral, it's helpful for me to go back to the basics, and grab a pen and paper. So what to do with the pen and paper, you draw a line down the middle of the page. On one side, create a list of all the things that are upsetting you in that moment, that are triggering those negative thoughts. Then on the other side of the page, turn each scenario and see if you can see each complaint in a more positive life. So it ties into what you're saying, like that reverse gratitude. Again, the example of like loved ones. So here's an example. It's somewhat true. My sister and I are really close, and she hasn't returned my calls in a few days. She's got two kids. I'm like not holding it against her, but we're close. We talk a lot. [00:12:38] PF: You were there before the kids. Come on. [00:12:40] CJ: I know. So instead of being upset about it, I shift my mindset into I'm grateful to be so close to my sister. Or like I'm grateful that my sister is in my life and healthy and happy and has these beautiful children, that I allow her not to call me back. [00:12:58 PF: Yes. See. I like doing that because it takes the focus off of you. Instead of it being you haven't called me back, then it's on we have this incredible relationship. I think that can really help a relationship blossom because sometimes, especially in instances like that, and it can happen with friends, like friends who live far away, and you go a long time without talking to each other, and you start feeling like, “Well, I was the last one that called them, and they haven't called me.” Instead of getting caught up in that little vortex, yes, you can actually enrich that relationship by cultivating your sense of gratitude. Like why are they such a great friend? Why have you had them in your life for so long? What is it you appreciate about them? I think that's amazing. The next time you do talk to them, you're going to have a richer experience. So now, one reason that we want to talk about gratitude is because we have Thanksgiving coming up, and that's always the whole thank you thing. What I think is really cool is if you can get the whole family working together on gratitude and not just going around everybody names one thing that they're thankful for, which is, I mean, that's nice. It's a nice thing to do. But I think, okay, people can step it up just a little bit and one – [00:14:21] CJ: It's kind of like getting burnt out from the gratitude journaling. [00:14:26] PF: Yes. Because you know people are thinking like three days in advance. It's like, “Okay. Well, Bob's going to say this, and so I'm going to say this.” You kind of are like already planning. So one of the things that I saw, and this was so cool, it's called the gratitude game. So the first person has to say something that they're grateful for. For example, if I say Casey, so the next person now has to say something they're grateful for, but it's got to start with a Y because that's what Casey ends with. [00:15:02] CJ: Oh, wow. [00:15:03] PF: Yes. So then you go around, and then nothing can be repeated. Then you have to go around, and everybody has to come up with something they appreciate based on the last letter of what the person before them said. [00:15:18] CJ: That is so fun. I am implementing that in my family's Thanksgiving this year. [00:15:23] PF: Do it. I think that sounds like a lot of fun. [00:15:24] CJ: That is such a great idea. [00:15:26] PF: Yes. It just kind of shakes up the whole what I'm grateful for, and it makes you work harder. We know that when your brain starts looking for gratitude, it rewires. So that's – so you're actually doing your family a favor, even if they're like, “Casey, no. We're not going to do that.” [00:15:44] CJ: Yes. I'm sure they'll be like, “Of course, you recommended this.” But then once they start playing it, I mean, they'll have fun with it. Like just hearing you explain the rules, like that sounds so fun. That's very on-brand for me and definitely making my family do that this year. [00:15:59] PF: Yes. I like the idea of shaking it up a little bit and making people – [00:16:02] CJ: Yes. Keep things fresh. [00:16:03] PF: Yes, yes. You probably get some funny answers, too, that people would not have come up with before then. Then there was one other that we talked about, and I think this sounds like such a cool thing to do. That is the gratitude board. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? [00:16:22] CJ: Yes, definitely. So I saw this recently, and it's not – it's kind of like a vision board, but it's all centered around gratitude, right? So it's pictures of people, places, things, experiences that create happiness in your life. [00:16:41] PF: Vision boards. I mean, people have a lot of fun doing vision boards. So I think the idea of doing a gratitude board and just being able to put on their photos or cut out from magazines or just words of things you're grateful for, what a great activity. That is way better than like passing out from turkey tryptophan coma after dinner. I think that would be a really fun thing to do like after Thanksgiving dinner. [00:17:07] CJ: I agree. Again, I saw this on Instagram. I saw this couple. They took this not like parchment paper, but it's just this long sheet of paper, and they stuck it on their pantry. It was just like a large – so we do our Happy Acts walls, right? It was kind of like a Happy Acts wall, but it was a gratitude wall. So anytime you walk past the door, you jot something down that you're grateful for, and they keep it up all month. [00:17:31] PF: I love that. [00:17:33] CJ: Yes. [00:17:33] PF: Oh, that's fun. You know what? You could even do that like if you're having people over to your house or whoever's house you're going to for Thanksgiving, and talk to them, and have them put something like that up, and have everybody who comes in like write something they're grateful for. That would be so cool. [00:17:48] CJ: Exactly. [00:17:49] PF: I like that. These are some really cool ideas. I think there's a lot of great ways to approach gratitude. I for one am excited to try some new things and new ways to do it, and look at new ways to bump up my own gratitude practice, and maybe help share that with others around me. Speaking of sharing it, we have the Live Happy Gratitude Challenge coming up. [00:18:11] CJ: We sure do. It's – [00:18:13] PF: You are the Gratitude Queen, so you got to tell us about it. [00:18:16] CJ: Gratitude Queen, I love that. Yes. It’s our third year doing the gratitude challenge, so we're going to – it's, obviously, all month, whenever you want to do it. But it's kind of fun like doing it the week before, like leading up to Thanksgiving. Anyway, so the gratitude challenge, it's seven days, very doable. We're not asking you to do a whole month of gratitude, although you should. [00:18:39] PF: You could. [00:18:40] CJ: You could and you should. [00:18:42] PF: We will not judge if you do a whole month. [00:18:44] CJ: That's right. So the first day, day one of the gratitude challenge is think of two challenges you're grateful for and what positive things you learned. I just want to share a quick story real quick because it ties into this practice, and I love that we're kicking it off with this one. I think it's important we reflect on our growth and overcoming adversity. So an example of mine, I used to play D1 tennis in college, and I tore ligaments in both of my wrists at the same time. I was around like 18 or 19 when this happened. I had to have back-to-back wrist surgeries and would be out for almost two years. So 18, 19-year-old me thought it was the end of the world. [00:19:31] PF: Oh, yes. [00:19:33] CJ: You know. So I like had this vision of like my path, and that was no longer my path. I had to take a turn. So it took time to adjust in that chapter. Now, 15 years later, I'm grateful for those injuries because I wouldn't have ended up where I am today, and I wouldn't have had the opportunity to learn new things and probably wouldn't have met the amazing people I did along the way. So that's just one example of how to think of those challenges. [00:20:03] PF: Yes. I love that. I love that because that kind of perspective. I love it when you can look back and say that is not at all what I would have chosen, and I'm so grateful for the way it went. [00:20:13] CJ: Exactly. So that is day one. Day two is what skills are you grateful to have. Think about it and thank it. One skill I'm thankful for is my organizational skills. I'm going to put you on the spot, Paula. What skill are you grateful to have, aside from being an amazing podcast host, of course? [00:20:33] PF: I am super grateful that I was born a writer. I've been able to meet people, go places, do things. It’s like been this most incredible gift that God gave me, and I just – I love it. I love that I get to get up every day and do something that I love. I’m so fortunate. [00:20:53] CJ: Yes. You are a master of words, I will say. [00:20:55] PF: Oh, I thank you. [00:20:57] CJ: So that's day two. Day three, if you've had a positive experience at a business, write a kind review. [00:21:04] PF: That's a great thing to do. [00:21:05] CJ: Yes. [00:21:05] PF: Love that. [00:21:05] CJ: It’s super simple, especially if it's a small business. We love to support our small businesses. Leave them a nice review. You just have no idea how much it means to small business owners. Day four is think about what foods you're grateful for and give thanks to the nourishment your body receives from those foods. [00:21:25] PF: I like that. [00:21:26] CJ: Yes. If you can – [00:21:26] PF: I’m [inaudible 00:21:26]. [00:21:28] CJ: Yes. I love that. I really do think that food is medicine, and we need to be – just think more grateful of the easy access we have to those fresh fruits and vegetables, just clean ingredients. If you can, donate whatever that food is to a food bank or make a donation to their website. [00:21:46] PF: Yes. That's great. [00:21:47] CJ: Day five, think of three memories you're most thankful for. Bonus, if it involves someone, send them the memory via text or Snapchat or whatever channel makes sense for you. [00:22:01] PF: I love that. You know what? People love it when you do that because I've had several incidents throughout my life. I'll think about it, and I've just started making a practice of like, “You know, today, I thought about the time that you were in England, and you did this.” Blah, blah. They’re shocked that you remember. They're touched that you remember. It gives them a warm feeling, too, because it takes them back as well. [00:22:24] CJ: Exactly. I love that. I use Snapchat. I mean, I don't use Snapchat like most people do. I take videos or photos, and then I save it to my memories because I love when those memories pop up at the end of the month. So like I had some memories pop up from 2021, and these were, I guess, glimmers that I forgot about. So I just love seeing that, whether it's my own personal memory or something I've shared with someone else. [00:22:56] PF: That's very cool. [00:22:57] CJ: Yes. Day five, think of those memories. Okay. Day six, what exercise are you most thankful you're able to do, and do it. Do that exercise. [00:23:09] PF: I like it. [00:23:10] CJ: Okay. Day seven, last but not least. Make a list of all the material comforts you're thankful for. So currently, I'm thankful for my record player, fuzzy blankets, and candles without toxic ingredients, of course. [00:23:24] PF: There you go. I like it. I like it. [00:23:26] CJ: Yes. So that is the seven-day gratitude challenge. I hope everyone participates when you can. It's gratitude month. Let’s lean into the joy. [00:23:36] PF: I love it. I love it. Then are you going to give them more joy by giving them a discount in the store? [00:23:41] CJ: You know it. We – [00:23:42] PF: I thought you might. [00:23:44] CJ: You know it. So we're offering 30% off storewide, November 20th through 27th. So you've got seven days at store.livehappy.com. All you have to do is use the code GRATEFUL 30 at checkout. [00:23:59] PF: Awesome, awesome. Well, this will be fun. It's a lovely, lovely Thanksgiving season, a lot to be grateful for this year. I'm grateful that you sat down and talked to me about this today. [00:24:12] CJ: Oh. Well, thank you. I am grateful to talk about all of this stuff with you as well. [00:24:18] PF: Casey, thank you for joining me on this gratitude adventure, finding new ways to celebrate it. We’ll keep looking. We'll keep looking for more ways to express our gratitude. [00:24:30] CJ: Always. Thank you for having me. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:23:47] PF: That was Live Happy's own, Casey Johnson, talking with me about new ways to practice gratitude. Be sure to check out the Live Happy store to get 30% off everything in the store, just by using the code GRATITUDE 30. You can do that when you visit us at livehappy.com. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Defeating SAD With Dr. Norman Rosenthal [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 442 of Live Happy Now. We just turned our clocks back, which means shorter days and, for many, the onset of seasonal affective disorder. So this week, we're going to talk to the man who identified SAD and also has tips for beating it. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, it is my honor to talk with Dr. Norman Rosenthal, the world-renowned researcher and psychiatrist who spearheaded the discovery of SAD and also pioneered the use of light therapy as treatment. His new book, Defeating SAD: A Guide to Health and Happiness Through All Seasons, provides a road map for beating this disorder. Today, he's here to tell us how his own experiences with seasonal affective disorder drove him to research it and what we can do to beat those winter blues. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:56] PF: Dr. Norman, thank you for joining me today. [00:00:58] NR: Oh, it's great to be here. [00:01:01] PF: Well, I'm really excited to talk to you because you are so instrumental in something that we all talk about right now, and that is that you defined seasonal affective disorder. So I'm curious because I've only grown up knowing that term. What were we calling SAD before it was SAD and what – can you kind of take us back to that time before we realized that this was really a thing? [00:01:26] NR: That's a terrific question because it brings me back to when I came here from South Africa. It was 1976, and I was thrown into the psychiatric residency which was very stimulating. It was Colombia, and there was no such a thing as SAD. They called it the Christmas crunch. [00:01:51] PF: Oh, really? [00:01:52] NR: People are having the Christmas crunch, and everybody in the office is down and out. So that's about as much as it was at the time. Then I felt like these changes coming over me that in the winter I would get slowed down. The summer I would be so pumped up and doing all these amazing things. Then in the winter, I thought, “Were you crazy to be undertaking all those things?” Now, I'm just kind of – it's all I can do to get out of bed and get my stuff done. It happened for three years until I came to the NIMH, the National Institute of Mental Health here in Bethesda, Maryland. That's when all the pieces of the puzzle came together really. [00:02:37] PF: How did you start researching that and diving into it? Because it was – as you said, we talked about it, but we didn't really realize what it was. [00:02:48] NR: I knew that we needed to find a group of people that it wasn't just good enough to have one person who had observed these changes, experienced the effects of light, that I needed to have a group. So at that point, believe it or not, it was before the Internet. [00:03:07] PF: So it was a lot harder to find people. [00:03:08] NR: Yes. So we had an article in the Washington Post that was syndicated across the country. In the article, I said if you feel you've got this problem, let me know. I got thousands of responses from every corner of the country. [00:03:27] PF: Wow. So how did you start deciding who would participate? [00:03:30] NR: Well, I started reading through, and I found that there was a very stereotyped monotonous set of responses. In the autumn, when the days get short, maybe October, maybe November, I slow down. I have a need to sleep more. I have a craving for sweets and starches. I tend to gain weight. Then I get down and I'm having trouble at work and I lose my relationships in the winter that I made the previous summer. It was mostly women, three or four to one women to men. I thought we've got a syndrome here. That's when I called it seasonal affective disorder or SAD for short. Now, everybody thinks it was always there. [00:04:19] PF: I know. I know because when I got your book and then I was trying to think of the first time I had ever heard it because I can't remember a time when that wasn't a phrase. So I got to say, so that actually – this is kind of a little sidebar because you were actually the answer to a jeopardy question, weren’t you? [00:04:39] NR: Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's when my voicemail filled up, and I realized how many people listen to Jeopardy because I got calls from my trainer and from people all over the place. “Hey, Doc. You were on the Jeopardy, and you were a question and –” Yes. [00:04:56] PF: What was the question? [00:04:58] NR: The question was this condition was described by Dr. Norman Rosenthal and affects people in the winter. The answer was what is SAD. [00:05:10] PF: That's terrific. So as you discovered this, how do you go from saying we've got a disorder to educating people, to getting an entire world on board with the fact that this is a real condition, and this is what we need to do about it? [00:05:25] NR: Well, the first thing we had to do was the work. We had to do the research because we suspected that light was involved. Year after year, we did studies of light. Some people thought it was very, very funny because the idea that light – I remember one colleague of mine calling me at a meeting saying, “Come here, Norm. Come under the light because I'm feeling a little depressed.” It was a joke. But bit by bit, the work was done. We did a lot of the work. It was replicated all over the United States and Europe. It was found that this is a replicable thing. You can find the people with the problem, you can describe it, you can treat it with light, and you can help the problem. You can defeat the problem. That's the name of my new book is Defeating SAD. It's not good enough to treat it. You've got to defeat it. [00:06:23] PF: I love that. It's just conquer that thing and make it go away. I love that. So as you developed treatments, what did you see as the most important things? You just mentioned light, and it goes beyond that. Can you kind of talk about how you found the things that would treat it and how you approached that and maybe how our approach has changed from your early research to now? [00:06:48] NR: Excellent questions. Well, at the beginning, we used light. We used light of a certain brightness. Then subsequent studies found that if you multiply that brightness by four, you got a more potent effect. That's now the standard treatment with the bright light. So-called lux is a measure of life, and 10,000 lux is what you would get on a – if you went outdoors on a sunny day. They found that 10,000 lux was a good amount, and that's what the standardized light boxes give out. We use it for a variable amount of time in the morning. Every step of the way, they had to discover things that morning was usually better than evening. That white light was better than red light, that this was better than that. Slowly, slowly, slowly, we evolved light therapy. So that was the one big discovery there. Then other people came in and found things that light did and ways that light might work and things that were wrong with people when they had SAD, what that might be due to. The eye might not be working. I had a fascinating man. He was in his mid-50s. He came in, couldn't think of any reason why he got SAD. I would ask all the routine things like, “Did you have a change of job so that you're now indoors, and you used to be outdoors?” No. “Did you move from the penthouse to the basement and being dark?” No. This, this, and this all negative. Then so I said, “Well, let's try you on light therapy.” As I suggested that, his wife who was in the consultation and said, “Well, what about his cataract?” I said, “Well, what cataract?” She said, “Well, you know, just before he developed SAD, he had an injury, an accident, and he injured an eye, and a cataract grew over the eye.” So half the light was not coming in between the two eyes, and that caused the SAD. So there could be multiple reasons, and we began to piece it together bit by bit. But at the same time, other people began to look for other things that could help. One of my colleagues up in Vermont, Dr. Kelly Rohan, she looked at cognitive behavior therapy for SAD and found that it could be in itself very useful. So I guess that as the treatments evolved, what the new book has distilled is all the things that you need to do to really corral the beast. It means light therapy. It means foundational habits like good eating, and good sleeping, and exercise, and on and on and on. You put these things together. That's when you get a real cure and not just an improvement. [00:09:49] PF: Let me ask you because when someone's affected by a depression, I know it can be very difficult for them to get off the couch and do the things that they need to do to deal with that. Is it the same way with SAD that it's challenging for them to be able to start making those steps that will cure them, that will help them defeat it? Doing the light therapy, doing the eating right and exercising? [00:10:16] NR: Absolutely. It is. It is a challenge, and I encourage friends and family to be recruited into the process. Let's say it's a wife because it often is woman who suffers. Maybe her husband can bring or I should say her wife. I don't want to be stereotyped here. Whoever it is can bring coffee and a light box towards where she's sitting and put it on and say, “Come on.” Then within a half an hour, the person is kind of up and ready and happy and grateful. So I think it's a wonderful opportunity to get people working together. [00:11:00] PF: Yes. That's a wonderful point to make because oftentimes, when we're listening to a podcast or reading a book, we're thinking about ourselves and how I can apply this. But we all know people who are affected by this. So what can we just as casual friends or as a neighbor do if we know that somebody is suffering, if we see all the symptoms kicking in? We've just changed times, and we're now going to have shorter days, and it's going to get dark earlier. So I think this is when it really starts affecting people. What do we do if we see someone we know that seems to be slipping into that? [00:11:38] NR: Well, I think it's kind to say something, and it's even kinder if you say it nicely instead of, “You're such a drag today.” [00:11:50] PF: It's like, “You're not fun. We're not going to play again till summer.” [00:11:53] NR: I've kind of noticed that when it gets dark, when the weather gets down, you just lose a little bit of that sparkle that we all know you for. I wonder if maybe this is something worth looking into. [00:12:09] PF: That's a great way to do it. Like you said, instead of being a spouse that's bringing the light box and coffee, maybe you go visit a neighbor and say, “Come for a walk with me,” or something like that. [00:12:21] NR: Definitely. Walking, exercising outside. Even from a cloudy sky, you get a lot of light, so outdoor exercise is wonderful. To go exercise with a friend, how nice would that be? [00:12:37] PF: Yes. It kind of doubles the reward of it. [00:12:39] NR: Exactly. [00:12:40] PF: So now, you did mention when people responded to your article, your call for people with conditions, that it was primarily women. So do you still see that? Is it primarily women who are affected by it? If so, why is that? [00:12:56] NR: It's three or four to one women to men, and it's also women in their reproductive years. So we've looked at children and we see that in girls. Before and after the menarche, when they start menstruating and when they have the change of puberty, that's when SAD jumps up. Then on the other side of the menstrual spectrum, when women are going into menopause, then they tend to be less seasonal. So somewhere along the line, the reproductive cycle and the seasonal cycle have gotten caught on top of each other, surely by way of hormones and chemicals. But that's the reason I think why women have got it more, and there's probably an evolutionary element there, where it might have been adaptive for a species for the women to be nursing in the dark or nursing at home while the men were out and about in the fields, gathering stuff, and couldn't afford to be laid out and sitting on the proverbial couch. The Stone Age couch was probably quite uncomfortable. [00:14:16] PF: And there was no television to watch. [00:14:18] NR: No television to watch. Not even – yes. What’s that – [00:14:23] PF: The Flintstones? [00:14:25] NR: The Flintstones. Not even The Flintstones. Yes, that's right. [00:14:30] PF: So does it affect men and women differently? If men do have it, do you see different patterns with them than how a woman responds? Or is it pretty universal? [00:14:40] NR: That's a great question. I would say just in terms of my experience that the eating the carbohydrate craving, the social withdrawal. Men tend to get angry, lose their temper because they're frustrated, and they're finding themselves less able to do things. Men often get – you're angry when that happens. Women withdraw and get down when that happens. Men drink more maybe. I mean, these are just impressions. I don't have solid data. But you asked a good question. [00:15:14] PF: So is there a difference in how you approach them? Say as a spouse, is there a difference? I know not all men are going to be open to the idea of a light box, and they might not even think that they have seasonal affective disorder. They might shrug off the fact that that could be affecting them. [00:15:33] NR: Well, I tell you, men respond very well to having performance discussed. You want to be at your peak performance, and I see that you don't quite have your edge. You're always brilliant, but you're even more brilliant in the summer than in the winter. We want to be very careful with our delicate egos. So in any event, I think that the reason I'm sort of thinking of that is that one of my clients who is a Wall Street financier, he says, “You would be amazed at how many light boxes there are on the trading floor.” [00:16:17] PF: Really? [00:16:18] NR: Yes. That is because they find anything to give you that extra little edge over the next person. So I think men respond to performance, and women respond more to feelings. [00:16:33] PF: That makes perfect sense, absolute perfect sense. In dealing with it, is it different than other mood disorders? Like what are some of the similarities it might have to other mood disorders, and how is it different? [00:16:46] NR: Well, if we leave aside the seasonality because that, obviously, is the whole market, it affects you more in the winter than in the summer. That said, if you've got a spell of cloudy weather for two weeks, that can really bring people down. But beyond the timing of the mood difficulties is the symptom pattern because what's called typical depression, people lose their appetite. They don't sleep as well. They lose weight, more likely to be suicidal, whereas with SAD, they gain weight. They eat more. They sleep more, less suicidal on the whole. [00:17:28] PF: Oh, that's interesting. You have brought up the idea of the light box. Can we dive into that a little bit and kind of explain more about what that is and how that works? [00:17:39] NR: Well, there was a challenge as to how we could get a lot of lights coming at you in intense ways at a certain time of day. The practical solution has been a light box, a device that emits a lot of light from a relatively small area, which I would say would be at least one foot square, and has got a screen that filters out the ultraviolet light. To do all that, you have to have a manufacturer who takes these things seriously, certain amount of light, certain position in relation to the eyes. Usually, maybe two feet away, often coming from a little bit above because that's how our eyes get used to light hitting us from the sky. So the sun box or light box mimics that. It’s a couple feet away, coming a little from above. Ultraviolet light is screened out. It's typical white light. It's got a couple of different settings and a manufacturer that will stand by the product. I do mention in defeating SAD several light boxes that I found particularly helpful, some of them bigger, some of them smaller, although I would discourage you from getting the teeny-weeny ones. Even though they're going to be very cheap and very seductive for that reason, they don't put out enough light. They're too bright. I don't trust them. The good reputable manufacturer will stand by the product. On all the online ordering, you can almost always that I've encountered return it within a certain reasonable amount of time, which is really plenty of time for you to get a decent trial of the light. So imagine that. Here is this non-medicinal – [00:19:32] PF: That's what I love so much about it. Yes. [00:19:34] NR: That you can have for two or three weeks. If you don't like it, you can send it back, money back, and simple instructions that I outlined along with all the other things you can do besides the light. I mean, it's like too good to pass over. [00:19:52] PF: So how long do you need to spend with the light on you when you're going to embark on this form of therapy? [00:19:59] NR: That's variable, just like the dose of a medication is variable. Some people might need one Tylenol. Some people might need two or whatever the medicine is. So I would say between 20 minutes and an hour would be sufficient for most people. [00:20:17] PF: You're saying it's more effective at the beginning of the day. [00:20:20] NR: Yes. The morning is a better time in general. But if you find yourself wilting later in the day, it's fine to go get a little extra light. [00:20:29] PF: So when do most of your patients use like – how do they work that into their morning routine? Because I can just – you can hear people going, “Oh, I don't have 20 minutes to an hour every morning to do this.” So how do people work that into their routine? [00:20:44] NR: Well, what I say is you're probably going to be sitting down doing something for 20 minutes to an hour. Doing what, you'll say. Well, how about reading the paper, being on a podcast, being on a Zoom meeting with your colleagues, putting on your makeup, eating your breakfast, playing Wordle? You're going to do something for that half an hour, and you may as well have the light on. So it can seamlessly be incorporated into everybody's day. [00:21:20] PF: Well, that's good because I was thinking of it as something where you're just going to sit there. It's just you and the light box, and nothing else can go on. [00:21:27] NR: No. You’ll find people competing for it. Come on. Let me – can I sit a little closer? I've had that situation when the issue first came up with the use of light boxes in the office. We were all worried that people would feel stigmatized because you've got this illness, because you need a light box, blah, blah, blah. When I asked people, they said, “No, no. Everybody comes crowding into my office so that they can get a bit of the light.” It was very well accepted in almost every circumstance, even early on, before it was a well-known thing. [00:22:01] PF: That is interesting because most things aren't like that. If we consider ourselves a little different, we don't want anybody to know. But this really is something that seems universally embraced and – [00:22:12] NR: That is a really good observation, and I think what has happened with seasonal affective disorder from the beginning is we kind of realized that it connects us to the animal world, that bears hibernate. You were telling me about a dog that wasn't as chipper when it was in the dark. We feel a connection and a kinship with nature that the whole world is changing, and it's okay if we're changing as well. Here's something we can do about it. [00:22:44] PF: I love that. So if someone has had this problem in the past, they know it's coming up as we enter this new season, but maybe a light box seems kind of out of reach, what would be the other things like in order that you would say, “Okay. Try this, this, and this, for sure. If you're not going to be able to do light therapy, try these things.”? [00:23:01] NR: I would say take one room in your home and make it very bright. Clear everything away from the sides of the windows, those heavy window treatments or hedges or creepers. Give it a good cleaning so that the grime from the summer is removed. Then paint the walls light. Have colored throws and cushions all around. Bring some more regular lights in. It doesn't have to be the official light box to give you more light. So those are all good things and very cheap. Put a bedside lamp on a timer to go on half an hour before you're due to wake up in the morning. That would be a kind of treatment that's actually being studied called dawn simulation because at the early hours, before we wake up, the eyes are super sensitive to light. So if the light is coming on at that time, so a bright room, simulated dawn. Outdoors, as we said. I find that going up and down hills while looking at the sky is a fantastic way. Preferably listening to some wonderful music or podcast or whatever is a fabulous way to spend a half an hour, and it doesn't cost anything really. The up and down hills gives you this high-intensity intermittent exercise that's so good for you. Be creative. People with SAD are very creative people. They've learned they have to be. So I encourage creativity. But don't be creative with taking lights that aren't validated and sit in front of very bright lights that aren't official light boxes because you can hurt your eyes with too much bright light. Even looking – you never want to look at the sun, for example. So I think just be sensible about it. [00:25:04] PF: So don't just shine a flashlight in your spouse's face and – [00:25:07] NR: Well, it depends on what your goals are. [00:25:14] PF: Of course – [00:25:14] NR: Getting rid of your spouse maybe. [00:25:16] PF: Maybe that's why you're SAD, right. So one thing that they can do, too, because your book is amazing and covers so much territory, and that's a great thing, too, is like they can pick that up. You really walk them through how to manage this, and you really are there with them step by step. So when you were writing that, what was the main intention? Was it to do that to make them feel like they've got a partner on this journey? [00:25:44] NR: Yes, yes. You nailed it. More than a partner, a friend, someone who's been there myself, knows the journey. Also, it is a much shorter book than books that I have written in the past. I know I like books to be short but to the point but also beautiful. So I'll read to you the very first page of the book because it really summarizes my goal. It's a quote by Albert Camus, that wonderful author. He says, “In the midst of winter, I found there was within me an invincible summer, and that makes me happy for it says that no matter how hard the world pushes against me, within me there's something stronger, something better pushing right back.” That was the goal of the book, to show how you can push back and defeat it. Then I love the cover because it's full of bright vivid colors. But, also, if you look at the spine, it's very thin. I thought the least I can do for my fellow SAD sufferers is not give them any extraneous information they don't need. So I've tried to make it short and enticing, and I hope I've succeeded. [00:27:14] PF: You definitely have, and I believe we're giving them a free chapter. I believe our listeners can go to the website, get a free chapter. [00:27:21] NR: Absolutely, yes. Good. That's a great suggestion. [00:27:26] PF: Yes. So they're going to be able to learn more about it, and we're going to tell them on our landing page. They're going to go. They can find out more about you, more about the other work that you've done, more about the book, and they can follow you on social media. So, Dr. Norman, thank you again. Thank you for sitting down with me and really talking through this. I know many of our listeners are struggling with it and in the months to come might be struggling with it more. So thanks for sharing this with us. [00:27:51] NR: Well, it's such a pleasure. The time just whizzed by. You're such a great interviewer. It didn’t feel like an official thing. It felt like a tea with a friend, so. [00:28:03] PF: It was. I really enjoyed talking with you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:28:10] PF: That was Dr. Norman Rosenthal, talking about how we can overcome seasonal affective disorder. If you'd like to learn more about Dr. Norm, check out his new book, Defeating Sad: A Guide to Health and Happiness Through All Seasons, follow him on social media, or download a free chapter of his book, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Discovering the Happiness Essentials With Maria Baltazzi [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 441 of Live Happy Now. When you're going on a trip, it's important to make sure you pack all the essentials. And when you're starting a journey to well-being, you need to pack the happiness essentials. I'm your host, Paula Felps. And this week, I'm talking with Emmy award-winning television producer, well-being teacher and author, Maria Baltazzi, about her new book Take a Shot at Happiness: How to Write, Direct & Produce the Life You Want. A world traveler who has developed and produced TV shows around the globe, including the hit reality show Survivor, Maria has truly used the planet as an extraordinary classroom. That led her to earning her PhD in Conscious Centered Living. And her book explores the eight happiness essentials she's discovered and teaches us how we can use them to improve our well-being in our daily lives. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:59] PF: Maria, thank you for joining me today. [0:01:02] MB: Oh, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me as a guest. [0:01:05] PF: You are the first guest that we've had who is a happiness explorer. Tell everybody what a happiness explorer is and does. [0:01:13] MB: It's someone who travels, who goes through the world and takes that perspective of seeing what is good, what is right, what is positive and embracing that. [0:01:30] PF: Is that a natural talent that you have? Has that always been your mindset? Or is it something that you've cultivated over the years? Because we talk on Live Happy about the negativity bias that we have and the happiness set points. What about you? Are you naturally happy? Or did you cultivate this over time? [0:01:48] MB: I promise you, I cultivated it. [0:01:51] PF: Everyone's like, "Okay." [0:01:53] MB: Yes. I 100% cultivated, which is why I wrote my book, Take a Shot at Happiness, because it came from a place and a point in my life where I was not happy and I wanted to do something about it. And so, when you start doing those intentional activities that boost your happiness level, when you go out into the world, you notice things differently. And I travel for a living. By virtue of that, started to notice the world differently. [0:02:27] PF: And so, you said it takes a minute. Over what period of time did you start noticing this evolution of your happiness? [0:02:36] MB: March 21st, 2015. [0:02:43] PF: That is specific. What happened then? [0:02:45] MB: I just was sitting in my office in Los Angeles. I come from a television background, which is also why my book title is called Take a Shot at Happiness. Because I draw from my life in television. And as I was sitting in my office, I was at a place where I was not enjoying my career. I was not enjoying my personal life. I felt that I had hit my lowest point personally and professionally and I just felt I did not want to stay in that place nor did I want to be defined by it. That's what started reading my next book. Going to courses, and then certification and then degrees. It just kept unfolding. [0:03:33] PF: And I really commend that. Because, so often times, when we hit that point, we feel so despondent that we don't even have the energy to reach out and pick up that book or even to know that's what we need to do. What was it that was within you that drove you to say, "I've got to get out of this? And this is how I'm going to do it." [0:03:53] MB: It was the feeling of despondency. I didn't want to keep feeling that. And the only way that made sense to me to do something about it was to take action, which started with just reading. Starting with some affirmations and making that a conscious practice every day. And as I started to feel better, I wanted to learn more. It just kept expanding because I was feeling good and I kept wanting to feel better. [0:04:27] PF: I love that. [0:04:28] MB: Yeah. I think that that's the beauty of this work once you understand it. Once you get into it, it seems that it takes a lot of effort and time. However, when you start to see the benefits that you are experiencing, you are feeling better inside your skin. You are having better relationships. You are being more conscious of the choices that you are making, the boundaries that you're drawing. How you're sleeping and eating and all of those things. When you notice how it's impacting you in a positive way, it motivates you to want to keep doing more. [0:05:09] PF: That makes absolute sense. And you are so interesting because you have a master's in film and a PhD in Conscious Centered Living. And that's a very unique combination. How did you combine that adventurous spirit that you have with your quest for this conscious centered living? How did those two things work together? [0:05:29] MB: I first got the master's degree in film. I've been a storyteller. I've Loved story all my life. It was the storytelling part that I did first. And then in my business making television, whether it's a very small production or a very large production. When I say small, it's myself, a cameraman, a sound guy and maybe some kind of an assistant. And when I say big production, I could have a team of 120 people. And the shows that I did, did and do, are in remote locations. They're shot on location. I'm already out into the world. And what I was noticing is that just the demands of production. The demands of being responsible for so many people or even a few people in environments that don't always have the creature comforts, or the necessities, or medical help or whatever it is being in these remote locations. After a while, the demands of television production and trying to please the network, trying to please the production company, trying to please the talent, yeah, it just got to me. And I was noticing that other people's stuff was becoming my stuff in a very unhealthy, unsustainable way. And that's when I was sitting in my office in Los Angeles saying, "This is not working. We have to do something different." It was an act of self-preservation. [0:07:12] PF: That makes complete sense. And let's talk about that past of yours a little bit. Because, fun fact, you were one of the original supervising producers of the TV show Survivor. I find that so fascinating. Because that changed everything for people. What an incredible show to be part of. First of all, can you talk about how that became part of you and you became part of that? And then how that opened up your mind to more exploration? [0:07:41] MB: When I came to Survivor, I was already traveling and doing shows. What was unique about that particular show is there had never been a competition show set on a remote island. That's what made it different. And I always did the very last episode. I was with the Survivor contestants all the way through. And the thing that always struck me is you would get towards the end of the game. And time and again, I would sit in interview with the contestants and they would be saying, "You know, this isn't really me. This is just me playing a game." And I kept thinking, "But it is you. Because your actions and behavior." And what I came to realize, and I think about this all the time still, is that we don't know what we are capable of doing until we are in that situation. That shade of your personality hasn't been put into an environment for itself to express. And that's what I thought was so interesting. Because I just saw it time and again. [0:08:56] PF: And how did it affect you to be in that environment? Because you weren't having a cushy life either. It's not like you're going back to a five-star hotel at the end of the day. You were toughing it out as well. We would follow their stories and see how they evolved and changed. What was going on behind the scenes with you? [0:09:14] MB: Interesting, oddly enough, I liked it. I like being out there. I like being in the environments where you didn't have everything with you. And it taught me to not need so much. And that started me to understand the beauty and blessing of detachment. That you didn't need to have just 500 pairs of shoes and a hundred dresses. You didn't need all of that stuff. In many respects, I arrived in that environment. I liked it. [0:09:55] PF: And that's interesting. Because LA is such a glitz and glam town. And so, to go, to have that juxtaposition between those two worlds, what was that like? Were you like getting back to LA, "I'm glad to be back home? But I want to get back to the island." [0:10:10] MB: I have said for a very long time that I have my bush world to appreciate my urban world and my urban world to appreciate my bush world. Each one has its specialness. And I would not want to exist in either world exclusively. [0:10:32] PF: That makes perfect sense. Because you get lessons from both of them. [0:10:36] MB: Absolutely. [0:10:38] PF: what would you say are like the greatest happiness lessons that you learned from Survivor? You talked about the detachment and not needing stuff. What are some of the other things that you feel it taught you being out there? [0:10:50] MB: I would say the majority of my happiness lessons came after I left the show. That show taught me what I was mentioning before. It taught me you that your personality has different shades to it and has to be in the right environment for it to express. And it also taught me not to judge a book by its cover. Because you have people in every size, shape, ethnicity, the diversity that is on the show. Not to judge a book by its cover. Because we could be interviewing somebody in a hotel room and they are physically fit. They are articulate. And you think, "Ah, they're going to be great." And then they get out onto an island, into an environment that they've never been in before and they just collapse. They can't handle it out there. And what I saw through that is that there is different kinds of fitness. There can be a gym in urban fitness and then there can be an outdoor being in the elements fitness. Those were the two big lessons that I took away leaving that show. The real happiness journey happened after the show at that moment on March 21st when I was realizing, "This isn't happening. And I got to change things." [0:12:21] PF: As you change things, you've done a lot of amazing things. You have done charity walks and treks on all seven continents. Talk about how that came about and what that means to you. Why you do that? [0:12:32] MB: I have this misi-like ability to walk distances. I don't have to think much about going and walking three, four, five, 10 miles. It doesn't faze me. I can just go do it. And I wanted to do something useful with a natural ability. And it came by way of Ethan Zohn who was the Survivor Africa Season 3 Winner. He came down with cancer. And my mother had cancer. And my sister passed away from cancer. And so, I wanted to do something that was supportive of Ethan. And he was that year's LIVESTRONG Ambassador for the New York Marathon. And I just asked him, I said, "Well, I've never done a marathon, but can you hook me up and let me support you?" Next thing I knew, I was doing the New York Marathon and walking it. And after I did the New York Marathon, I thought, "Well, I'll do Los Angeles." I did Los Angeles. And then I found out that there was the 2500th Anniversary of the original marathon in Greece. [0:13:49] PF: Oh, my God. [0:13:50] MB: Having a Greek background, I now had to go do that. And there, I found that you could do a marathon on every continent. And I'm like, "That's fantastic." Because I've always admired the seven summiteers. The ones who climb the tallest peaks on every continent. As soon as you put on crampons, I am over it. [0:14:11] PF: Not going there. [0:14:13] MB: No. I'm not going there. But walking on every continent, now that was a great goal. And so, I set out to do it. And it was always for charity and primarily for cancer awareness. [0:14:25] PF: That is so terrific. And so, it's interesting how you've really created this mission, this happiness explorer mission that you're on. And how did all of this journey lead to you writing your book? [0:14:39] MB: As I was feeling better and better about my life and seeing what intentional activities can do. And this is something that Sonja Lyubomirsky talks about in her how – [0:14:54] PF: We love Sonja. [0:14:54] MB: Yeah, she's fantastic. As soon as I was seeing that I could do specific activities to make me feel better, I thought, "I have to share this with other people," and especially other creatives and other creatives in the entertainment industry. Because the business that I come from, it's very demanding. There's a lot of ups and downs. It's a tough business emotionally, physically. And I wanted to help other creatives, which is also why I take a creative approach in how I share what I consider the happiness essentials, which there's eight of them in my book that I talk about. [0:15:40] PF: Yeah. Can you share your favorite three? Are they like children where you say, "Oh, I don't have a favorite." But you do. Or is it, "Ah, these are my favorite three." [0:15:47] MB: I have a favorite foundational three. [0:15:50] PF: All right. Let's talk about those. [0:15:52] MB: In my mind, everything starts with faith, however you define that. I'm not pushing any sort of religion or spiritual doctrine. And I think that faith can be defined in so many ways. But for me, faith is believing in something greater than yourself. Something that's going to support you. Something that's going to give you hope and solace. That is my first foundation. The second is love. How many things in the world can be solved if we were just more loving? [0:16:31] PF: That is huge. And I think that's often overlooked when we're talking about happiness. I think about that and that doesn't really come up. We talk about kindness. We talk about gratitude. But we don't talk about love. I'm so glad you brought that up. [0:16:45] MB: And then the third one is health, three dimensionally; mind, body and spirit. You have to have it all. That's where I begin. And I keep adding on to that. [0:16:56] PF: I love that. Because with a good foundation, you can really build as high as you want and as wide as you want. And that's obviously what you're doing. And with this book, explain to our listeners a little bit about what this book will do and kind of take them through what they can expect from it. [0:17:12] MB: The book goes through eight happiness essentials. And they are virtues, and qualities and habits that I qualify for myself and then went out to find the research to back it up. And that became my book. [0:17:31] PF: Love it. [0:17:32] MB: And what I do is eight is very significant. Because you see it throughout my book. There's eight happiness essentials. There are eight bullet points. And eight is important to me. When you take the number eight and you put it on its side, it's the sign of infinity. [0:17:53] PF: Yes, it is. [0:17:54] MB: And we're always continually ebb and flow, growing, expanding. That's one of the reasons that 8 is so significant to me. And then coming from a creative background and a television background, a visual background, I use a lot of terms as a fun way to frame the book. Each chapter begins with my viewfinder. It's my macro idea of how I think about faith. And then I go through eight different points. And then at the end, I have a big picture, which is a summation of everything that I've just talked about. And then with each, what I call snapshots, talk about faith. There are eight snapshots. There is then a photo op and an action opportunity. And the photo op and the action opportunity is a way to help anchor, help the reader absorb what they were just reading about and learning. Because I think when you can engage creatively, you just take in the information in a more heart-centered way. And the reason I chose writing, journaling if you will, and asking specific questions that relate to faith, or love, or health, whatever that snapshot is, is that, when you are writing, especially when you were in a state of upset, it takes that blob of stuff that's going on in your head. And you start to be able to organize it and get clarity through it. And that becomes its own catharsis for you. And then the photo assignments, one of the things that I notice is – and you don't have to be a photographer to do my book. But one of the things that I noticed when I was taking photos with my camera is how calm I would become. [0:19:56] PF: Oh, interesting. [0:19:56] MB: I would find something that would literally stop me in my tracks. The way the sun is hitting a rose in the morning and there's still dew on it. I'll stop and I'll focus just on that rose. Only look for the picture information that I want to represent that rose. And in that moment, everything else falls away from me. I'm not thinking about what I'm going to eat. I'm not thinking about how I'm annoyed at somebody. It all goes away. Because I am focused. I am present on that one thing that I'm photographing. And it becomes its own kind of meditation. I learned early on as a child reading books and then noticing my thoughts is I think in pictures. And I think most people think in pictures. And we have this constant film, this constant stream of images that run through our head usually unconscious about it. And training yourself to see exactly what you want helps you to become aware of your thoughts. And when you become aware of your thoughts, and especially the negative ones, you can then reframe them, pun intended, to be something that's more productive. I don't even talk about – well, sort of do. Positive thinking. I think the better term is productive or constructive thinking. And that's what you want to be doing with your thoughts. And doing the photo assignments, we don't think about it. Often, we get these books. And, yeah, sure. Write this. And, yes, I have the journaling. But what are you doing to actually learn how you see the images in your head? [0:21:50] PF: What I love about that too is there was a study that came out a couple of months ago and it was talking about how taking fewer photos will actually make you happier. Because people have gotten so into like – they're taking photos of everything and missing the moment. What you're doing is honing in and making them appreciate that moment. And it's like this is why we're supposed to have cameras, is to capture that moment and appreciate it. I love that you take that and you make a practice out of it. [0:22:18] MB: One of my favorite teachings comes from Dr. Rick Hanson, which is about savoring the good. And taking a photograph in such a mindful way, such a present way helps you with savoring in the good. Because Dr. Hanson talks about you know really staying with a pleasant experience for 20 to 30 seconds and doing that time and time again. So, you start to create a positive neural pathway. I think that taking the photos, as I have in my book, helps you learn that lesson, learn that habit. [0:23:01] PF: That's excellent. There's a lot we can learn from this book. And it is – as you said, it's presented great for creatives. And I love that because people – to your point, we learn differently and different things appeal to us. And I think this makes happiness practices so accessible to people. And what is it that you most hope to accomplish with this book? [0:23:22] MB: That people can understand that happiness is a choice and that's where it begins really. You have to want to do it. And then you have to back it up. If you say, "Oh, I want to be happy." Great. If you don't do anything about it, you're dreaming. [0:23:42] PF: Right. Right. [0:23:43] MB: I want people to understand that happiness is a choice. It's well within their control. And there are things that they can actually learn and that they will become better, more aware, more present, more resilient. I think happiness is another word. It's a pretty word for resilience. [0:24:07] PF: I would agree with that. [0:24:08] MB: Yeah. [0:24:08] PF: Maria, thank you so much. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for writing this book. We are going to tell our listeners how they can find you. How they can find your book? How they can follow you? You're going to have stalkers now. No. But I really appreciate this. I think this is so important. I love this mission. And I appreciate your time today. [0:24:25] MB: Thank you. Thank you so much. I really feel honored to be here. [OUTRO] [0:24:33] PF: That was Maria Baltazzi talking about the happiness essentials and how you can discover them. If you'd like to learn more about Maria, check out her new book, Take a Shot at Happiness: How to Write, Direct & Produce the Life You Want. Or follow her on social media. Just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. And until then, this is Paula Felps reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Tuning Into Sound Therapy With Laura Widney [INTRO] [00:00:04] PF: What's up, everybody? This is Paula Felps, and you are listening to On a Positive Note. Science is increasingly giving us more information about how sound frequencies can not only change our mental state but change how we feel physically too. As you're about to hear, after seeing how sound frequencies were helping her wellness clients reduce things like stress and anxiety, Laura Whitney set out to find a way to make sound therapy more accessible. She has done that by creating an app called Soaak that provides sound therapy on the go. She's here with me to talk about how sound affects us and how we can use it as a daily wellness practice. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:44] PF: Laura, thank you so much for coming on the show with me. [00:00:47] LW: Yes. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here and talk with you. [00:00:50] PF: I love what you're talking about today because it's sound and all the ways that it affects us. To kick it off, I want to know your story. How did you get so interested in this topic? [00:01:01] LW: I was a hair stylist for the first part of my life. For the first 16 years of my life, I did it professionally, and I own different salons. So through a series of events, I had a really good friend of mine that was a naturopathic doctor. Me and her talked for years about natural wellness. What I did in the kind of beauty industry was I’m basically like an honorary therapist, where I listened to my clients all day. I just really had such a heart for helping people. I felt like I was helping people in what I was doing because when you look good, you feel good. So there was a component to that in what I did. But after years of really kind of wanting to make a change in my life, I went towards the holistic wellness profession. I sold my salons, and I kind of dove off a cliff, so to speak, and went into this holistic health. That's when I really started studying everything I could get my hands on, as far as energy medicine and holistic modalities, everything from IV therapy, to body work, to chiropractic, just everything. Everything that helps heal the body I really dug in. So I opened a wellness clinic, and I had that for about five years. That was really where Soaak was born because we did frequency therapy in clinic. So that was one of my favorite modalities was that sound vibration therapy because it's non-invasive. It works really good. With our Soaak app, it's now inexpensive versus the clinic. Anytime you go into any holistic wellness, you're going to spend some money. It's expensive, and it's not covered by insurance. So that was why I just loved frequency therapy. I loved sound therapy. It changed my life in so many ways, which I can get into some stories later. But that's really kind of how I got into what I'm doing now and creating my company called Soaak is from my experience with my wellness clinic. Having frequency therapy and sound therapy is one of the modalities in the clinic. [00:03:01] PF: Break that down for the listeners a little bit because when we talk about sound and frequencies, we know what music is, but we might not necessarily associate sound and sound frequencies. Can you really explain what it is we're talking about? [00:03:13] LW: Yes, okay. So the frequency specifically are specific megahertz. It's a sound, and so there's a lot of different frequency generators that generate the actual sound of the frequency. So there are trillions and trillions of frequencies in the world and in the universe, and we are all made up of a frequency. So your individual human being has its own blueprint, its own signature blueprint frequency. It's different from everybody else's. Not one person has the same frequency. We are made up of a composition of frequencies, basically, but everything has a unique frequency. So a healthy heart has its unique frequency. Skin has a unique frequency, hair. Even a cancer cell has a specific frequency. Royal Rife years ago actually was able to identify all of the different frequencies in which actual megahertz paired with what thing in our body and what physical thing. So when you play a frequency, you can play a specific megahertz, and it resonates that thing on your body. So what we did in our clinic was we actually made frequency compositions. So you can go online and Google 432 hertz, for example, or 528 hertz. Well, that is one specific frequency that's a megahertz. So it's 432 hertz. We would take those frequencies, and we would layer them with other frequencies. We did a lot of clinical trials, research stuff in our clinic that helped us identify, let's say, if you're having issues with your digestive system. It could be from a lot of things, and so one specific megahertz isn't necessarily going to fix everything. So we would identify, okay, what is wrong with the digestive system. Could it be something you ate? Could it be an allergic reaction? Could it be lack of sleep? Could it be stress? Could it be the vagal nerve, all of these things? So then we created these frequency compositions that are layered with all these specific megahertz to address that one area of the body. Everything in the universe is a frequency. My voice is a frequency. Our thoughts are omitting a frequency. We are all just reverberating these frequencies from the inside out. So it's very similar to music, where you hear a country song, for example. It puts you in a certain mood. Like it just changes what you're thinking about. It changes the way you feel inside, your emotions. You can just start crying. Then you put on your favorite gym workout playlist, and that's a completely different emotion that it stirs up in you right at the moment. Music is like a perfect example of kind of how frequencies affect you, but nobody really thinks of it like that because it's just music. Music is like a universal language. When you think about actual Soaak frequencies or megahertz, they're kind of doing the same thing. They are tuning your body to a certain frequency. So they're helping your cells, talking to your cells, and helping them oscillate at a certain frequency for optimal health. [00:06:12] PF: Are those frequencies paired with a certain type of music? Or how is it – I've seen it done different ways. How exactly do you do that? [00:06:20] LW: So we actually do all of the above. On our app, we have different listening options. So you can do the raw frequency, which is just that raw. You'll hear it when you go on the app. It's a raw frequency. Some of them are really pleasant, really relaxing. Some frequencies are pretty high-pitched, a little less palatable. So because of that, we paired them with music, which is guitar. Then we also have another option, which is nature sounds. So even our nature sounds like rain or thunder, stuff like that, and the guitar, we tune those sounds also to a certain frequency that kind of matches the frequency, that underlying frequency that it's with. We have lots of different options because everybody's different, and I get tired of listening to just the raw frequencies. Sometimes, I just want to listen to some music. Sometimes, I want to hear the rain with the nature sounds. So we have lots of options. [00:07:10] PF: Yes. I think it's really important to point out that there is just a ton of science that supports what this does. A few years ago, when I started doing some stories on this, people were like, “You're crazy,” because there was not as much research out there. Now, people really come to understand like frequencies, how they affect us, and also things like our digital world. How does that affect us? Okay, it's going to be like a two-part question because I want to talk about how this is affecting us and then how we can kind of counter that through using sound frequency. [00:07:43] LW: Yes. Again, I'll go back to the statement that everything is frequency. It is so much more popular now. You're hearing about 5G and standing close to a microwave and all of these things that were kind of they've always been a thing. But now, they're becoming a lot more popular for people to talk about. People understand it and realize, okay, yes, this invisible force that is going on around us all the time is actually affecting our emotional health, our physical health, our mental health. We get bombarded on a daily basis with frequencies of all kinds. You're driving and you hear a horn honk. That frequency alone can stress you out and make your cortisol rush through the body and really kind of negatively affect you. It's the same with standing close to the microwave when you're microwaving your food or anything like that. Everything affects us. So with sound frequencies and also with positive thoughts, because you'll know later when we talk about the Soaak app, we have positive affirmations. So we truly believe that mindset is everything. When you get your mindset into this positive state to where you're not ruminating on these negative thoughts, that is creating basically a frequency around you that is solid and peaceful. It actually – I believe it's like a shield where when you are in a good state of mind, all of this negativity, whether it's 5G or your kids screaming at you, whenever it is, it kind of bounces off you because you are in a good state, and you are holding your peace. You are holding that frequency tight and strong. [00:09:23] PF: In some cases now, I think people are so attuned to having that digital impact in their life to being surrounded by these frequencies that they either don't realize that they feel bad because of it. Or they don't associate the way they feel with the frequencies they're around. [00:09:40] LW: Yes. I think that's probably the second one is probably most of our issues. We just don't realize what's happening. We just don't realize what's going on. We get very used to things. The technology that happens around us is kind of a gradual thing. When I was 16, I had a flip phone. We didn't have a smartphone. We played outside a lot as most kids did back then. Then gradually, now years later, it's like, man, I am literally either with my computer or my phone or my iPad or at my TV. Or I am sitting next to devices all day long. It's kind of a gradual thing. Now, it's just that's life. So it's something to be aware of but also not to be scared of. [00:10:25] PF: But I see using frequencies sort of like house cleaning because it's like you collect all this garbage in your body through all the digital interactions, through all the electric frequencies that we're collecting. How does that kind of cleanse the palate as it works? [00:10:40] LW: So I always like to explain it like we're Velcro, and all the frequencies that are happening during the day, we're just like walking through them constantly, and they're sticking on us. The less protected you are and the less your guard is down, the more that things can kind of latch onto you and kind of get into your system. So we are energy, and our energy just piles on different things, different energies from other people. It can really Velcro to us. Unless you really take the time to peel off those layers, whether it's through therapy or going outside and grounding or taking a run, whatever it is that helps you clear your head and clear your emotions, if you don't do those things, then it's just layers upon layers every day. After a decade, you're going to be feeling really sick. You're going to be really depressed or whatever it is that your ailment is. With the frequencies, I always say when you listen to the frequencies, and you can equate this to like music too, your favorite song. When you listen to it within a couple minutes, you can feel. You can literally feel almost the chemical response that happens inside your body to make your dopamine or whatever go up and make you happy. You feel the difference. So that's how the frequencies work. They actually are talking to your cells, and they're telling yourselves, “Hey.” Your cells are kind of going crazy and a little chaotic because your energy is a little out of balance. The frequencies are like a tuning fork to your cell. So they're telling your cell, “Okay, oscillate properly. Oscillate properly.” So your cells listen and then attune to whatever the frequency is that they're hearing. That's how the frequencies help balance the energy system and balance the body. When that happens, it's basically like dissipates or makes that negative chaotic energy disappear. It just dissipates, and it's like you can take a big deep breath. You feel like you've just taken a big deep breath, and you feel lighter afterwards. It's really crazy, but it really helps with any emotional kind of heaviness. It just makes you feel like you just drank a big glass of water and have been out in the sunshine for a couple minutes. That's kind of what it feels like after you do it. [00:12:45] PF: Yes. You had so much experience of treating clients in your wellness center. What would you see in terms of how long it takes for that to take effect, and then how long does that last? Because that's what people want to know too. It's like is this something I am going to walk out and then it's like, “Oh, I'm right back to my old self.”? [00:13:04] LW: Yes. Energy is subtle. Any kind of modality that works with energy, energy medicine, really even massage, even physical things, it's working with the subtle energy body. So specifically, frequency therapy, you want to continue to retrain your energy to oscillate properly. So you want to do it every day if you can, and that that was one reason why. That was the main reason why we digitized the frequency therapy in clinic. That's where Soaak was really born is because people needed to come. We recommended two to three times a week because that was the practical amount of time I could get people in the clinic. It was $50 a session in clinic. That’s two to three times a week, 600; 800 dollars a month. I mean, that's a lot. But that's what was necessary. Me personally and all my staff, we did every day because we had the equipment there, and we were able to. That was what really made a difference. That's why we created Soaak because I think everybody should do it every day, if possible, and because that's what really makes it stick. But as far as how long it takes to help, within minutes of listening to some of the frequencies, you can feel it. There are some things that I have heard people say, “I have listened to this weeks and weeks and not really felt anything. But after listening to it a month, everything changed.” I really feel like we are like an onion. You peel back layers of an onion, and you don't really even feel or know you're doing anything. But you're doing a lot. Then by the time you've finally get to that one piece that's like, “Oh, man. That is what shifted it all,” it shifts at all, and then you feel better. I always tell people do it as much as you can and be as consistent as you can with it. But also have good daily habits around the frequencies. So when you're listening to the frequency, drink a big glass of water. Make sure you are super hydrated. Make sure you are either saying your mindful intentions. Or if you have time and can close your eyes and sit down, meditate while you're doing it. Make it a habitual thing every single day, where you're also layering other really good habits with it because when you do that, man, I guarantee that you're going to feel so much better every day. Over time, you're going to change big things in your life. [00:15:26] PF: Yes. It's kind of like exercise where you can start out and just do something really, really gradual. Then before it, it's become such a part of your daily routines that you can't really keep going without it. [00:15:38] LW: That's exactly right. [00:15:40] PF: Let's talk about some of the things that you've seen it do for anxiety and depression because those are two of the biggest things that we hear about across the board but then also at Live Happy. We get a lot of requests for information on that. That's always the biggest demand. What can sound frequencies do to help with anxiety and depression? Not only in adults but let's talk about children too. [00:16:00 ] LW: Yes. So that's such a huge thing that we see testimonials from people using the frequencies is really dissipating that feeling, that heaviness feeling that you get from anxiety and depression. Anxiety can come from a lot of different things. This is where my background in my wellness clinic really comes in handy because I've not only studied how energy works and what's happening to your energy when you're anxious or depressed but also the physical body. So a lot of times, anxiety can come from a food allergy. It can come from lack of sleep. It can come from a hormonal imbalance. Same with depression, it can come from pathogens in the gut or in the brain. So there's a lot of physical reasons why you have these things. It can also come from real trauma, emotional turmoil at home, and stuff like that as well. So it's not just one thing that causes it. So that's why our frequency compositions are so powerful because we took all of that into consideration when we made the anti-anxiety frequency or when we made the depression frequency because it's addressing a lot. There's a lot going on. There's places in you that get stuck and that get pent up that need to be released. So that's what sound frequencies do, again, is they help release kind of that stagnant stuck energy in that spot, and it helps your cells to oscillate properly. That's when you feel kind of that flood of relief. Or I keep saying it just dissipates, but that feeling of anxious, anxious. You're clinching your fist, and you listen to the frequencies, and you kind of just let it go, where it just kind of goes away for a second. Then that's when it's so important to get that mindset in there as well to really help yourself make it stick. You're saying, “Okay, I'm going to have a great day. No obstacle is going to stress me out today.” Really get your mind right to where you just are in a completely different thought process after that. [00:17:59] PF: Yes. Can you address how a parent could use this? Because a child – we see so much anxiety with children. The stories I've heard are just absolutely heartbreak, especially post-pandemic, and parents don't know how to help their children with anxiety. Now, a child's not necessarily going to slap some headphones on and listen to some sound frequencies. How can they do this? How can parents integrate that into their children's getting ready for school, driving to school routine? [00:18:25] LW: Love it. The cool thing about kids and even pets is they are so much more susceptible to the good energy. They just kind of receive it. They don't have any like mental blocks of like, “Oh, what is this? This isn't going to work.” [00:18:39] PF: “I'm not sure this is working.” [00:18:41] LW: Yes. They don't have that mind barrier that adults do once we get older and get our own opinion. So it seems to really work well. We've seen it with pets too. Again, you can play it through your cell phone. You don't even have to have headphones. You can just play it right through the speaker on your phone. [00:18:58] PF: I think what you're doing is just incredible, and you've referenced the app. Can you talk about how you took all this learning, all this knowledge that you had for it and then turned it into something that was so accessible through an app? [00:19:10] LW: Really the biggest barrier that I kept seeing was time and money. That's kind of the case with everything. So I kept saying, okay, how can I make this more accessible to people and more affordable? Because the essence of the treatment was really inexpensive. So I kept telling my team. I'm like, “We need to digitize this. We need to get this in an app where people can do it 24/7.” The other issue was if we have somebody with severe depression or chronic anxiety, they could come in for a treatment and do great. But what happens at midnight when something triggers them, and they're having an anxiety attack or a panic attack or deep depression? That was when they needed the frequency the most is right in that moment or if they couldn't sleep. We have a sleep frequency. So I kept telling my team, “We have to digitize this.” We got with some developers, and we were able to create an app and put all of our frequencies online. So we took the top 30 frequencies that worked the best in clinic and that we got the best reviews and testimonies. We put those on our Soaak app. So that's how the Soaak app came to be and why it's available now. [00:20:17] PF: That's incredible. I know that we're going to give our listeners a free trial to it. I know it's a company for you, but it's so much more. For you, it's a mission. I'm just impressed with how you've just kept elevating what you're doing and making it more accessible to more people. So what is it ultimately that you hope to see? As you look down the road, what do you hope that everyone starts learning about sound frequencies and how it will change the world? [00:20:42] LW: Yes. I love that. Thank you for that question. I love answering this question. The sound frequencies are amazing, and I hope everybody tries them, and I hope it gives everyone relief in the moment they need it. Because I feel like when you have an accumulation of things that happen to you that set you back, after weeks or months or years of that happening, you're just in a funk. It’s really hard to get out of that. So with Soaak, I'm hoping that people don't get in that funk. I'm hoping that they can hold their peace and hold their joy and hold on to the positive things in their life through daily mindful intentions and through daily uplifting sounds and frequencies. [00:21:23] PF: Laura, you're doing wonderful things. I'm so excited that you had time to sit down and talk with me. I thank you for everything that you're putting out. I'm really excited to share this with our listeners and let them experience it for themselves. [00:21:35] LW: Thank you for having me. This has been awesome. You've been so fun to talk to. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:21:42] PF: That was Laura Widney of Soaak Technologies, talking about how we can use sound to improve our mental and physical well-being. If you'd like to learn more about Laura, get a free trial of her app, or follow her on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of On a Positive Note and look forward to joining you again next time. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Finding Happiness in Hard Times with Rabbi Matt Derrenbacher [INTRODUCTION]   [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 440 of Live Happy Now. In difficult times, sometimes we're left wondering if it's selfish to focus on pursuing happiness. But this week's guest is here to explain why right now is more important than ever. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and this week I'm talking with Matt Derrenbacher, Solo Rabbi at Congregation Beth Shalom in Columbia, Missouri. In the face of violence and uncertainty in the Middle East that have affected many of us here in the US, Matt sat down to talk with me about the importance of seeking happiness in hard times and what we can do when we're not sure what to say. He also gives us some great tips for managing the anxiety and overwhelm that accompany uncertain times. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:51] PF: Matt, thanks for being with me here today. [0:00:54] MD: Thanks for having me. [0:00:55] PF: We needed to have a conversation because I reached out. I know you've been doing a lot of interviews. And I've seen you in the newspaper. You're doing some radio, some TV. This is just a really difficult time. There's horrific violence going on in the Middle East. We have the conflict in Ukraine continuing. I wanted to know from your perspective, how do you start the conversation with people who are struggling with all the things that are going on right now? [0:01:22] MD: Thank you. That's a very important question. A lot of times, the conversations already started with so much access to information through social media, through news, through conversations, it's something that – especially with things going on in the Middle East right now for the Jewish community in particular, we think of like three degrees of separation. But for a lot of communities, it's one degree of separation. Someone knows someone or has family members. One of our charter members, one of the founding members of our congregation, his daughter and son-in-law were killed a little under two weeks ago. For a lot of people, the intensity of all of the conflicts across the globe, there's already an internal dialogue going on. For me approaching these conversations, it's trying to discover where each person is at in that internal dialogue and picking it up from there. [0:02:23] PF: And that's a great way to approach it. Because sometimes we as individuals don't even know what to say. It's like I find myself stammering a lot right now. I don't know what to say. Because we can't make sense of everything that's going on. Instead of trying to make sense of it, what path should we be taking instead? [0:02:44] MD: The path that myself and my congregation have been going on is the path of peace and holding space. Last week, we held a vigil. And it wasn't a vigil for one particular group or another. It was a vigil to remember those who were killed and to hold space for a hope for peace. In approaching these conversations, our society and social media has gotten so fractured, so fractured where it's you have to pick one side or the other. And there's not a lot of room in the middle for growth, for learning, for healing. And I think that's an important thing to remember is that middle space where the real conversations are being had is where the greatest amount of healing can happen. And that's where compassion is found, right? On both ends of whatever spectrum you may fall in for whatever issue it may be, there's this sort of tendency to pretend like compassion is a finite resource where we can only use – [0:03:49] PF: I'm not going to spend it on that. Yeah. [0:03:53] MD: I can only spend it on the group that I care about. And we miss the entirety of the human experience, right? That there are lots of people facing a lot of loss right now. And to hold compassion, and to hold space and to hope for peace and healing, that's where we ourselves can begin to heal and figure out where we really fall interacting with any of these big issues. [0:04:16] PF: And where do you have people start with that? Because finding compassion can be difficult when you're outraged, when there's so much chatter around you that is venomous. As you said, it's one side or the other. These are no longer human humans. They're parts of a group. And so, where do you start looking for that compassion and toning down the noise? [0:04:37] MD: I think the best thing we can do is take a step back. Because when we're on social media constantly, it is unfiltered information, right? And so, anyone with any sort of perspective or agenda can put something out there that will upset someone. And that misinformation will continue to grow and to spread and cause more anger and more violence. And by taking a step back and recognizing the humanity of each one of the situations, we can hope for better conversations. Honestly, just better conversations where we can recognize the pain that everyone is feeling. [0:05:17] PF: But how do we talk with someone who has very strong feelings that don't include compassion? That don't include the humanity aspect of it? [0:05:26] MD: That's the hard part, right? I mean, I will say, even being a part of a community that has been deeply affected by the events going on, especially in the Middle East. I mean, Shabbat and Simchat Torah, one of our supposed to be happiest holidays where we're celebrating finishing the completion of a Torah cycle, it was the deadliest 24/48 hours for the Jewish people since the Holocaust. With that, there's deep pain, there's deep mourning, but there's also a lot of deep anger too. Speaking from my own context, my own community, it can be really easy to jump to that place of anger, of betrayal and being able to take a step back from some of that and to just wade through the feelings. Wade through the feelings of loss, of betrayal, of pain. And to really sit with that and then to recognize that we have community. That we have one another. And that we can support one another. During our vigil at Thursday night, I was talking about the holiness of the oneness of community, right? Regardless of where an individual sits on any particular issue, coming together as a community can sort of help soften those edges. [0:06:45] PF: And I think you bring up a really good point about people having to sort through their feelings. We're not asking or saying that people should deny the anger, and the outrage and all the other feelings, the sense of betrayal that comes with that. I think you do have to wade through all those before you can reach that sense of compassion. And you're kind of the guidance that they get. How do you navigate people through those emotions? Because we know that if you don't feel those emotions, if you don't deal with them, they will come back at another time and it won't be convenient. [0:07:21] MD: Right. [0:07:21] PF: How do we do that? How do we walk through some of these feelings that people are having right now? [0:07:26] MD: Right. Well, and it only won't be convenient, but they can also intensify over time too, right? And then they can be misdirected. A lot of times when we push those emotions down and then they start to come out, they come out at people who we don't necessarily want them to come out towards or in situations we're not particularly upset about. By really leaning into those feelings, leaning into the anger, the pain, the mourning, the loss and being able to transform those into sort of conduits for fighting for a better future, I think that's how we can really honor those feelings. In the Jewish Community, memory is one of the strongest things. And one of our greatest values is Tikkun olam, which is to repair the world. And so, at the end of every service, we list off the names of those in our lives who have died in this season and years past and we say Zichrona Livrocho, may their memory be a blessing and a guiding light along our journeys. So that we continue to fight for a better future in their honor. [0:08:35] PF: That's really powerful. And someone doesn't have to be part of the Jewish community to participate and to be part of these rituals and start understanding. And how does that help them heal? Even if we're not of the Jewish faith, how does that help us heal when we can participate in something like that? [0:08:55] MD: Oh, absolutely. A lot of Jewish values can be boiled down to universal values, right? And so, I speak from my own context as a rabbi. And so, I use a lot of the language that is familiar to me. But taking a step outside of that, the idea of memory. Cultures around the world, religious traditions around the world plays a very heavy focus on memory, right? Memory is how we learn from the past. It's how we bring the joys, the pain, the complications, everything that life has to offer, all of those past experiences. If we allow them to be honored in a beautiful way, then they can help us to grow into better people. Into the people that our ancestors would be proud of. And then we can then hope that the future generations will look back at us and say, "Hey, they did a really good job laying a foundation for us." [0:09:46] PF: I like that. I like that a lot. How do you help people with the uncertainty right now? Life is always uncertain. It is filled with uncertainty. And we've learned that very well through the last three years. And now things are very tumultuous, very disrupted. What techniques or what practices do you encourage to help people deal with the uncertainty? Because uncertainty breeds anxiety. And then we know that can take you all kinds of places. How do people deal with what's going on right now? [0:10:17] MD: Someone who is both generally anxious and Jewish, I've learned to really lean into and love questions and certainty. Uncertainty can be very scary. It can be very daunting. There can be a lot attached to it. But it can also be an opportunity, right? If there's uncertainty then we can create a new direction. If things are going terribly wrong and we see no way forward, well, then maybe all we have to do is turn right or turn left and a new opportunity opens for us. I think the biggest thing that I can say is just learn to be friends with uncertainty. Uncertainty doesn't have to be scary. It can be an opportunity. It can be an invitation. I would say be friends with uncertainty and be okay with taking a step back. I know I have to – even though in the position I'm in people, expect me to know what's going on and when so I can have an informed opinion about whatever. Taking a step back is very important, right? Because it's the cliche of the oxygen mask in the airplane, right? You got to put yours on. Take care of yourself; mind, body, spirit. And then you can walk with someone else in that conversation that you're having. And whoever you're speaking with, you may not agree, you may not even get along that well, but you're doing the work together. And that's the important thing is that connection, that community building. It's not about agreeing. It's about growing together. [0:11:52] PF: Yeah. And I do want to get more into the idea of community here in a moment, but I also want to say that not everyone understands the people who do feel a sense of loss. Some of us are more removed from it than others. And we're at different spaces and different places. If we are one of those people that feels removed from it, what are some things that we need to be keeping in mind as we talk to other people? [0:12:19] MD: I'd say one of the biggest things that we can do actually is to reach out to other people. Think about those in your life who this may be affecting and just say, "Hey, how are you doing?" Because chances are, regardless of how they're affected, the level of loss, the degrees of separation from loss, there is that uncertainty, right? And so, in order to become friends with that uncertainty, we need to know that we're supported. [0:12:45] PF: That's right. [0:12:46] MD: One of the greatest things we can do is just be there for one another and questions. I would say one of the most meaningful parts of this whole experience has been people that are not affiliated with the community or are pretty far removed from the situation, reaching out and saying, "Hey, I know there's a lot going on. I don't quite understand it. But are you okay?" And that means the world. And that's where those connections and those opportunities for education and just beautiful growth can happen. [0:13:22] PF: I love that. Because that is one challenge. Even for myself, it's like I don't want to say the wrong thing. I don't always know what to say. I'm at a loss for words. And so, being able to – I love that. Just asking if someone's okay. Just checking in. [0:13:38] MD: Mm-hmm. Yeah. A lot of times, if we don't know what to say, we can ask a question or we can just be. Just letting someone know, "Hey, I know there's a lot going on right now. I'm here for you if you need anything." That's it. [0:13:51] PF: I love that. I love that. And so, one thing that – at Live Happy, obviously our mission is always about our well-being, living a happy life. And for some people right now, it can seem selfish. It can seem counterintuitive to be prioritizing our own happiness right now. Because it's a very difficult time. Can you talk about why it's important for us – no matter what is going on in the world, it's important for us to still be pursuing our own well-being and pursuing our own happiness. [0:14:20] MD: Pursuing our own happiness and our own well-being is sort of the key to the better future that we're hoping for, right? If we aren't taking care of ourselves, then we're going further and further down whatever rabbit hole we're already in. We're feeling worse about ourselves. We're feeling worse about the situation. And so, being able to take that step back to take care of ourselves and recognizing that honoring ourselves is actually honoring the situation. Because then we can approach it from a more positive viewpoint, right? We can ask tough questions. Have meaningful conversations. And we can have that growth happen within ourselves. And that sort of becomes contagious, right? If someone sees, "Hey, okay. Maybe there is a little bit of hope in this really terrible, horrific situation." Well, then we can use that to drive towards that better future together. [0:15:13] PF: I like that. Because you are always – you are a ray of sunshine wrapped around a rainbow. I mean, you are. You're just always, always happy. And what are some things that you do to keep yourself positive and hopeful throughout everything that's going on? And you've got kind of double pressure because you've got whatever is going on with you. And then you also have people who are depending on you to inform them, to enlighten them, to encourage them. What are your practices? And how do you stay so dang cheery? [0:15:48] MD: No. I appreciate that a lot actually. I think I stay positive because life is more fun that way. And I know that's a very, very weird thing to say in a conversation like this. But we need to hold things in tension, right? We need to recognize that the human experience is very messy, it's very complex, where we can experience the greatest joys in life and we can witness the greatest horrors in life. I think the greatest example that I can think of – sorry. It's coming from a specifically Jewish context. But at the end of a Jewish wedding, there's the smashing of the glass, right? And so, we break the glass. Everyone shouts mazel tov, which means congratulations. And it's a moment of recognition of the complicated nature of life, right? It's this beautiful moment where two souls are coming together. They're embarking on a new committed life together. And we break the glass to recognize that there is suffering in the world. That our world is incomplete. At this very beautiful, joyous moment, we break the glass to recognize that there's still work to be done in our world. And both things can be true at the exact same time. I choose to face the complexities of the world with joy in my heart. Because otherwise it would be completely overwhelming, right? [0:17:21] PF: Yeah. I love that. [0:17:24] MD: Thanks. [0:17:25] PF: How do you do that? How do you maintain that in the face of negativity? In the face of overwhelm? What are some of your go-to practices that help you do that? [0:17:36] MD: For me, it's all about connection. I find joy in connection. In like deep and meaningful connection, right? Whether it's with a person. Whether it's with one of our furry friends. Whether it's with nature in general, right? Sometimes being alone in nature going for a walk to clear the head, get the body moving, get the spirit engaged with the organic, natural world, it can be a very, very moving experience, right? A lot of people say like, "I found God outside. I found God in the breeze. I discovered my spirituality when I was out in the forest." Things like that. And then I experience incredible connection anytime I give one of my doggies a hug. [0:18:24] PF: Exactly. And all this is scientifically proven. Being in nature has incredible scientifically shown benefits. Same thing with petting a dog, hugging a dog, looking at a dog. I mean, pet. I'm not being exclusive. I'm not dogist. [0:18:39] MD: Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. I am a little bit. I'm very team dog. But I appreciate all the beautiful critters on the earth. Well, and with other people too, right? I really do find something so sacred about just being in community with one another. Whether it's friends. Whether it's family. Whether it's a wider group of people that just want to come together to be. I find each one of those very sacred in their own way. Connection with people. Connection with animals. Connection with the natural world. I really rely on those connections. Because there's beauty in connection. [0:19:22] PF: And we need it. As humans, we need that. We crave that and we thrive on it. That's really important. And I did want to ask you about something else, and that is obviously news coverage. We have news coverage everywhere we turn. And if we try to get away from the – I think some people still watch it on TV. But it's like our phone is constantly going off. Everything in our computer is coming at us. Can we talk about the difference between staying informed and being consumed by the news? Because what's going on is horrific. And the images are haunting and you cannot unsee that if you watch that. What kind of advice is there? Some people feel like if I don't watch this, it kind of reminds me of 9/11 where people felt they needed to be glued to it. It's like I've got to watch this tragedy unfold because I'm part of it. That's also very dangerous to our psyche. Tell us how you approach that. [0:20:20] MD: Yeah. It can get – I really like the way you phrased that. It can get very dangerous very quickly, right? And there is a very fine line, especially with all of our access to information and misinformation. There's a very fine line between staying informed and being consumed. Staying informed means that we interact with what's going on. We consume news where we are the ones doing the consuming, right? We, as the individual or the community have the agency on what we consume rather than it consuming us. Because when all of the information and misinformation come together and consume us, then we're reacting to a reaction to a reaction, right? It's not even – there's so many degrees of separation that it becomes just easy to be fueled by anger and to feel disillusioned and to not know what to do. And at that point, we are consumed. If we're able to take a step back and reclaim our agency as individuals consuming the news and consuming what's going on, then we are approaching the situations intentionally. We're approaching them thoughtfully. And we have more capacity to approach them with compassion. [0:21:43] PF: Yeah, I love that. I love that. Because one thing that I've stopped doing is watching live news. I do not watch live images. I do not watch video images. Because those are generally intended to be – grab your attention. And they're often very explicit. And so, that is one way that I kind of shelter myself from the atrocity of the news is to I choose to consume it by text and read only about the news. That way, I can kind of control what's coming into my head and I don't have images that I then have to live with and try to figure out where I'm going to place them now that they're stuck in my head. [0:22:23] MD: Yeah. Well, and that's the hard part about algorithms, right? On one hand, if you only follow cute animal accounts, it's going to keep pumping out cute animals, right? You're going to see a pig rolling in the mud and you're going to laugh and you're going to feel great. Or the algorithm can go the other way too. If you interact with particularly political material or any sort of content that is related around a specific viewpoint on, a conflict on something that's going on in the world, then it's going to keep pushing that. And then we're going to start reacting emotionally in ways that we wouldn't normally do, right? [0:23:05] PF: And I think the danger of that too is we start seeing the world through that lens. Because if that's all we're being fed – to your point, if we think it's just the world is full of cute little barnyard animals rolling around, the world's a wonderful place. But if it's just this constant stream of bad news and horrific pictures, the world feels unsafe. We're going to angry. We're going to be anxious and overwhelmed. [0:23:30] MD: Well, and it perpetuates violence, right? Generally, when anything happens with Israel, synagogues get targeted. Whether it's bomb threats. Or in Tunisia a couple of days ago, there was a synagogue that was burned because of events that are happening related to the Middle East. And the same thing can be said for the Muslim community too, right? If something happens, Islamophobia skyrockets, anti-Semitism skyrockets, things related to Israel sometimes. And it can be a very, very difficult thing to mediate because we have complete access to information and misinformation. And that leads to anger. And that leads to more cycles of violence. And I think reclaiming our agency as individuals who consume the news rather than are consumed by the news can help us break those cycles. And then we can lean into community. We can lean into hope and peacemaking rather than anger, and violence and destruction. [0:24:35] PF: I love that. Matt, you are always insightful, always wonderful to talk to. I really appreciate you sitting down with me and talking about this. It is a hard time, but it's also important to keep in mind that we can keep pursuing our happiness during this time. And we can keep reaching out to others and kind of be that light that other people need to see. [0:24:56] MD: Mm-hmm. And I appreciate you creating the space so that we can have these conversations and we can push out the noise for just a little while and remember the core of humanity at the heart of all of this. [0:25:08] PF: Yeah. It's still intact. [0:25:10] MD: Absolutely. [OUTRO] [0:25:16] PF: That was Rabbi Matt Derrenbacher, talking about finding happiness in hard times. If you'd like to learn more about Matt or follow him on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. And until then, this is Paula Felps reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]