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Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Living Better Longer With Caroline Paul [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 462 of Live Happy Now. We all have one thing in common, and that is that we are not getting any younger. But today's guest gives us a whole new way to approach the years ahead of us. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and today, I'm talking with New York Times bestselling author, Caroline Paul. Her new book, Tough Broad: From Boogie Boarding to Wing Walking―How Outdoor Adventure Improves Our Lives as We Age, turns some common myths about aging completely upside down. Combining stories of women who are embracing outdoor adventure in their later years with cultural and scientific research, Caroline gives us a roadmap for improving and enjoying the journey. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:46] PF: Caroline, thank you so much for joining us on Live Happy Now. [0:00:50] CP: I'm really happy to join you, Paula. It's going to be great. [0:00:53] PF: You have written an amazing book. First of all, the title describes you, tough broad. So, that had my attention immediately. But this book is so engaging and it's so inspiring, and in many ways, a call for us to up our game as we get older. So, I wanted to find out how this book came about, and really, who you are writing this for? [0:01:15] CP: Honestly, I was kind of writing for myself. I was 55 and looking around on my surfboard and seeing no women my age surfing. I'm not a really good surfer. So, I knew there was a lot of women who could be out there, but they just weren't out there. The same when I was on my electric skateboard. I saw no women my age, certainly no women older. And when I was flying my experimental planes, the same. But I saw men my age and men older. So, I started to think, “Well, I'm seeing 60 blank on the horizon. What is my future look like?” I decided to go and ask women who – because I wanted to keep outdoor adventure in my life, but maybe I wasn't supposed to. I kind of thought I was, but I wanted to go ask women who were there already. This is about those women. It's actually about fulfilling aging and those women explained it to me. [0:02:03] PF: Was it hard to find the people? Because you cover a lot of different types of activity and we'll get into that. But was it difficult to track these women down? [0:02:12] CP: It kind of was. I mean, first of all, women tend not to trumpet themselves on social media and stuff. So, you don't find them that way as much. Frankly, it felt like there weren't a lot of women out there doing these things. It turns out that they are out there. But what I did was I told everybody that I was working on this book and so people gave me names, and that started to snowball. Then, I did hire a researcher who found a lot of people. [0:02:38] PF: Okay. That makes sense, because one thing that we really work on here at Live Happy Now is to make sure that we back everything with science. And your book, the stories are so rich, but every one of them is backed by the science of what it's doing for us. How did that all – how did you marry all that? Did the story come first, and then you did research on what it was doing? Or how did those two components come together? [0:03:03] CP: Honestly, I was going to throw myself sort of like the paraglider that I was, off a cliff, and with an inflated, shoot and float around and talk to these women, and see how the book would come about. But I knew I didn't want it to be – it's not a book about profiles about women. This is a book about fulfilling aging in the outdoors. How the outdoors optimizes that. So, in a weird way, the pandemic was good for me, because it hit just as I was about to go interview people so nobody could talk to me. I had to sit down and do a lot of research about fulfilling aging. And I started to see what we needed to keep in our lives, and I was thinking about how outdoor adventure married perfectly with that. I went out and interviewed people doing specific adventures. I went and did the adventures with them. I usually had a specific idea of where that adventure would fit in to what I considered the five pillars of healthy aging. Usually, it came out completely surprised by something new. I was constantly schooled in this book, because again, it was a quest. [0:04:05] PF: Yes. Can we talk about those five pillars? [0:04:08] CP: Yes. The first four are pretty obvious. It’s we need, and we need as human beings, but they tend to fall away as we age. So, we have to be specifically cognizant that we need community. We need purpose. We need health. We need novelty. Those four things are really important as we age and they are harder to find. The last one, the one that intrigued me the most, the one that I actually started off with was we need a positive mindset about our own aging. The reason I say that is because I was interested in the messaging that we get as older women, because I had a feeling that was why these women weren't out there in the water with me are in the air with me. Because the messaging about women aging is really toxic and subliminal and insidious and we tend to believe it and the people around us believe it. It's basically that our future is one of declining cognitive health, frail bones, and increasing irrelevance. I mean, frankly, we're boring. You'll hear – I mean, I hear this from a lot of my peers who were disheartened about their own aging. We feel invisible. We feel invisible to the culture. So, I was interested in that messaging. Then, I found research that made it even more important to pay attention to because the research says that the way we look at our own aging predicts how well we age. That means negative view of aging, you actually have a significantly higher chance of a cardiac event earlier, cognitive decline earlier, and the opposite is true. If you look at your aging as a time of vitality and exploration, then you are going to be healthier, happier, and statistically, you live seven years longer. That seemed really important, and kind of mind-blowing. But the scientists had told us this, but they didn't say how to get that positive mindset. Of course, when something, how are we going to do that in the face of such difficult and disheartening messaging, and I had a feeling that the key was an outdoor adventure. [0:06:17] PF: It was, as we discover in your book. And I want to go back to what you were just talking about, and the research about how you aging affects how you age. Because it even changes your brain. Weren't you saying that in the book, it talks about the brain of a person who had negative perceptions is actually different after death than someone who had positive perceptions about aging. [0:06:39] CP: Yes, they had all those tangles and the neural ill health that signifies memory loss. I mean, they have actually shown that conversely, if you have a positive view on aging, you have a much higher chance of not turning on that AOPE4 gene that makes you more predisposed to Alzheimer's. That's pretty big. But we think it's inevitable when we see both our parents or our grandparents have Alzheimer's. We have that gene, but it's actually not. [0:07:10] PF: That is so interesting, because we just talked about the World Happiness Report last week, which came out, and one of the chapters was about well-being and dementia. It backs up everything that you talk about in your book where they had done all this research, and people who had a positive view of aging were less likely to develop dementia. At the same time, people with dementia who had a positive attitude, fared better with that dementia. It was really interesting to me to receive this report at the same time I'm reading your book because it was just like this companion research piece. I love how you bring in the adventurer. I wanted to know as I read this, it seems like you were probably always adventurous, and what about women who haven't been adventurous throughout their lives? How can they turn into someone who is a little bit more adventurous and try some of these things? [0:08:05] CP: Yes. After I did my research, I was clear that the outdoors is really good for us. So, just getting outside is super important. Because as the science shows, it's medicinal. From the tree chemicals that are emitted, to bird song, to even the architecture of like horizon lines that are soft and rounded, and the fractal nature of the outdoors is all really good for our well-being. On a biological level, it improves our immune system. It also makes it so our brain processes less noise, which makes it healthier and able to deal with what we really want to deal with. So, people who took walks outside, for instance, tested better on cognitive and memory tests afterwards. Your brain wasn't doing the busy work when it has to filter out noise, and just all this information that urban environments in the indoors, computers and stuff give you. So, I wanted them to get outside. I knew that adventure wasn't for everybody, at least my definition of adventure, which is fairly was fairly high octane. So, I wanted to talk to all different kinds of people who got outside. Among them, for instance, was I went birdwatching. Birdwatching, no one would think of as an adventurer, including me. In fact, I was kind of like, “Yes, I'm doing a book about outdoor adventure.” Then, in my head, I was like, “You're not an adventure but I'm going to include you because I wanted everybody out there.” But it turns out, and all the bird watchers already know this, that bird watching is an adventure. Because there was the quest of trying to see the bird. There was the exhilaration when you saw it. There was the physical vitality because we actually walked and I was with Virginia Rose who's actually in a wheelchair, and so she wheeled six miles. There was a physical vitality of an adventure. Basically, birdwatching had all the rhythms of an adventure and I had to – during the quest of that, was my book. One of the things that happened to me is I had to change, I'd expand my view of adventure and realize it's not about the actual action. It's about how you feel during it. So, if you're accessing your exploratory side, feeling exhilaration, pushing maybe a comfort zone, feeling physical, vital. That's an adventure. That was exciting to me. [0:10:21] PF: One thing that you talk about, and I love this, because we've talked about it on the show, is the importance of awe, and how changing that can be to even just take a walk and experience awe. Can you kind of talk about that a little bit? [0:10:35] CP: Yes. Well, it turns out another great reason why the outdoors is so healthy for us is that it's a surefire trigger for awe. Because all is that feeling that you get in the presence of something bigger. It's something that religion has used mostly, and we associated with religion. But in fact, we feel it when we look at the big sky. We look at the Grand Canyon. Of course, I felt it on some of my adventures. But it turns out, you don't have to go. I mean, it is in the presence of something bigger that you feel, but you can also access awe. You can cultivate awe. They did studies on this here in San Francisco, where the researchers asked people between the ages of 60 and 80 to go on walks, and simply look at things with childlike wonder, with fresh childlike eyes, I think is a quote. They were basically getting their participants to access awe. Then, they had a control group that just walked like we all walk, which is we ruminate and look at our phones. And they found after eight weeks that the people who were doing the awe walks had measurably different inflammatory markers. It went way down. Inflammation is a big sign of ill health. They reported feeling weightless, anxious, and depressed. And this was kind of crazy, they felt more compassion and gratitude, which makes sense, because awe is about seeing yourself in a larger picture. So, it made sense that they feel gratitude and compassion because you feel interconnected. The other thing is, is that we live in a world of anti-awe devices, especially inside. Our phone, our computer, it's all narrowing our focus, and making us seem like we have a lot of power and control. That's the opposite of awe. It's not that good for us. It gives us an inflated sense of ourselves and that's not healthy. So, awe is good for us. Getting outside is a really easy way to access awe. [0:12:25] PF: Yes, it is simple, and it's like, if you get out every day and you do it, it will absolutely change the way that you see the world. As you bring up so many times throughout the book, your mindset makes such a difference in how you age. So, as you look at how you're changing your mindset, what role does awe in developing positivity? [0:12:49] CP: Well, I mean, I think that, just because it does – one of the things they call awe is a reset button for the brain. What it does is that it changes your neural patterns. It kind of shakes them up. It kind of opens them up. You become more open to new ideas. They found more creative. And all that is really important for, well, anything in your life, but certainly for your just exploratory spirit, and your sense that there's more to do, more to access, just that openness. So, yes, awe is indispensable for our emotional well-being. [0:13:25] PF: You talked about how good it is to be out in nature. But in the book, you really drill down into the combination of nature and movement. [0:13:33] CP: Yes. Specifically, I was interested in ironically, not movement, but the brain. I wanted to know how a novelty was good for us, because I knew that one of the big things we worry about as we age is our memory. We need to keep challenging our brain. There is a sense that our brain is hardening, that we can't learn new things, and that it's probably withering away too. Well, it turns out, that's not true. The brain is highly plastic. It is laying down new neural pathways, growing new brain cells, well into older age. I don't even know if it ever stops. Even if you slow down some of the neural pathways for some reason, the brain then decides – they'll figure out how to lay different routes. It's almost like taking a different exit on the highway. I mean, the brain is amazing. So, you can continue to learn and you continue to explore. One of the things I did was I was interested in memory, because we're afraid of losing that. It turns out navigation and memory are in the same parts of our brain. So, I wanted to find someone who navigated in their outdoor sport. I found it orienteer. I went orienteering, which is basically when you race from a start line to a finish line, but you stop on checkpoints on the way that are on your map. Using your map, she called it running with a map and compass but she really call it running and thinking. [Inaudible 0:14:56]. What I found was that researched showed that if you actually are physically moving, you are more creative in your brain. Because our brain is not like a computer. A lot of great thinkers like Einstein would go on walks, and they would come up with great ideas during or after, because there is a way that they have shown that if you use your kinetic self, when you are thinking of an idea, you have a greater chance of solving it. So, an all waves movement, which is obviously important, physically is also good neurally. Also, then you feel better about yourself. [0:15:37] PF: I love that. We've become a society that's just sitting down and stuck in front of a screen and not trying to go outside and get creativity that way. We're trying to find it within. To change that – [0:15:50] CP: We’re on the Internet. [0:15:52] PF: Yes. I'll just Google that. I'll get my OpenAI and write that for me. But it is, like to be able to change that thinking, what have you seen it do either for yourself or someone else to start adopting that approach of saying, “I'm going to get up and move because I'm stuck on this problem.” [0:16:12] CP: Well, let me just say, I'll back up just a tiny bit and just say that. Back to that messaging about how we view ourselves, we have all these sort of subtle ideas about our own limitations as older women, especially because of the messaging that we get, and that's what's stopping us from going outside a lot. Because again, the messaging is about how frail and kind of incompetent we are, and boring, like I said. It's just a sense that our life is narrowing down. But what I found with the women I interviewed, especially the ones that had never gone outside before, that when they did – so, for instance, I went boogie boarding with a bunch of women in San Diego, and they were between the ages of 60 and in their 90s playing in the water. I talked to someone named Lorraine Voight. At 60, she saw these women when she was walking on the beach during the pandemic, and she thought, “Oh, they're having fun.” But she had no outdoor experience. She didn't even like the water. But it was that inflection point. It's the pandemic and she had had really tough 50s with deaths and just a lot of like reversals in her life. It was kind of a what the heck moment, probably, and she got in the water with them, and she was hooked. But not only did she love boogie boarding, she said to me, “Caroline, boogie boarding changed my life.” Now, boogie boarding is a very simple activity. That's something that kids do. I mean, you really are just – you’re just on a little floatation and just let the wave push you to shore. How could it change your life? I asked her, “How could it change your life?” She said, “Basically, look at the big cold Pacific Ocean. Look at the tumbling that happens. Look at the fun I'm having.” Basically, what she was telling me, she had up ended her own expectations of herself by simply taking those steps into the water. Because of that, it opened up all these other things about what she could do. [0:18:02] PF: I love that you bring up fun, because as adults, we tend to forget how important that is. Adventure is fun. It can be terrifying. But also, it's fun, and we need to be able to bring fun into our lives. [0:18:19] CP: Well, I looked into play, which is an actual science. I mean, people look into the benefits of play, and it's incredibly important. I mean, it's what we do to get to know ourselves better, and the people around us and community. I mean, that's what we did as kids. That's what dogs do in the dog park. You're right. It's actually a trust exercise. It's actually, obviously, you're getting physical vitality, but then there's lots of connection because there's a dance to it. Yes, play is important, and it's especially something that we lose not just as adults, but as women, because we're sort of expected to be such a certain way and trod such a particular path. Really, women are really watched a lot during their life in certain ways and judged. So, play is something that is scary for us because it's an abandon that – I say the word unruly in the book, and I think that's really apt. Unruly is an unusual way to describe women. We don't want to be described that way usually. But play is really good for us and it lets loose this sense of judgment. You don't care what other think and you're simply connecting with somebody else. [0:19:28] PF: So, as women are listening to this, and they're saying, “Oh, my God. I want to be her. I want to do that.” But there's something that holds us back. It's like, “Oh, my husband, my spouse, my kids, whatever. What will the neighbors think?” Kind of thing. How do we break out of that kind of thinking of like, “Yes, that's great. I wish I could, but I can't.” [0:19:51] CP: I've heard this a lot from people and it is hard to break out of our comfort zone. Especially, as women, we're not really taught to. I think men are often given training for very young age to kind of burst out and try new things and explore on your own and do it on your own. We are not. I did a lot of research on this for my book for girls. We are basically taught to be fearful about a lot of things at a very young age, which means we don't have that exploratory spirit, and we don't trust ourselves. Here's what I say, I say, I'm just trying to convince you how good it is for you to go outside and have an activity outside, and experience those aspects of adventure, like I said. So, if you believe me on that, you take pharmaceuticals, for whatever ails you, because you think it's going to make you feel better. There are always side effects. In fact, there's a very long list of side effects that are really unpleasant. They look like vomiting, diarrhea, don't drive ahead a vehicle. I could go on. I mean, you see them on the TV. If going outside your comfort zone or feeling a little fear, feels like something insurmountable, I urge you to think of it as just a little side effect of this incredibly health-giving pill that you're going to take. It is not only health-giving, but it's just going to open up your life in ways that I want you to tell me after you do it. Because again, as a rebuke to all the messaging you get, you find out things about yourself in the smoke without even trying. It's not like you're sitting down at a test and being like, “Now, I have to figure out about myself.” No, you're just going outside to birdwatch. That's what I just say. It's a side effect. I want you to take a small step. Do not fly a gyrocopter like I did for the book. [0:21:31] PF: But that was a great story. [0:21:33] CP: Do not BASE jump like somebody else I interviewed. Do not scuba dive like Louise Wholey who's 80. Don't do that. Take a walk with a friend. Do not learn to swim, maybe, like [inaudible 0:21:44] did. But go to the ocean and play in the side of the waves. Just push your comfort zone a tiny bit and I think it'll start to somersault as you find that – first of all, let me add one more thing, which is that every woman told me who was older than me that the 60s was their favorite decade. [0:22:02] PF: I love that. [0:22:04] CP: I know. It was unbelievable, because we're not told that. We're told that our best years are behind us. I remember my supposed best years and they were angst-filled and insecure. Now, I feel great. I enjoy everything, because I have that capacity to do it. So, we cannot let this slip by, by giving in to things like a little fear, like a little discomfort about our comfort zone. Because it's such an opportunity. It will be the best decade of your life or if you're past 60, the 70s, the 80s. [0:22:34] PF: I had an aunt who died at, she was either 96 or 97. I can't remember which. She had told me when I was younger, I was a lot like her. I tended to speak whatever was on my mind. She explained me like, “Yes, you will get in trouble. As a child, they're going to say you're insolent. As a young adult, they're going to say you're immature. As a middle-aged person, they're going to be like, we're not really sure about her.” She goes, “Once you hit 60, you can say anything you want, then now, you're the quirky fun person.” I was like, “Oh, man, so she really had me like looking forward to this.” [0:23:09] CP: We’re underestimated, and sometimes it's good to be underestimated and so – [0:23:13] PF: Exactly. [0:23:15] CP: You're invisible. Go do what you want. [0:23:17] PF: See if anyone finds out. You interviewed so many different women. You tell such great stories. One way I look at this book is as kind of like a catalogue of adventures that you could try. Like, “Oh, I never even thought about that.” I wondered if there was any single person or adventure that affected you most? [0:23:41] CP: All these women were amazing to me. I mean, I looked at women who were of different races, because I know that it's really hard for people of color to feel welcome outside. Of course, different abilities and different knowledge. Everybody amazed me. I feel like that since I mean really honestly, the chapter that was the most moving to me, of course, was writing about my own mother, who turns out was my subliminal messaging that made me blossom because I saw the way she opened up as she aged. That chapter was, of course, really important for me to write and difficult, and perhaps the most moving. [0:24:19] PF: Yes. Did you have any surprise learnings when you set out to write a book – [0:24:23] CP: Every single time. No, I came in with a swagger like, “This is an adventure.” Then, realized, when I went on a walk with a 93-year-old, just a mere walk was eye-opening and exhilarating because of the way she did it. She looked at everything. She quoted poetry while we did it. She looked at the sky, she looked at the birds. I mean, basically we went on an awe walk. I hadn't yet discovered awe, because awe discovered in this book. I did not understand that concept at all until I found it myself. But I had gone on an awe walk with dot. So, I guess I was just continually surprised. [0:25:04] PF: And as you look back on the experience of writing it, what was your biggest learning, would you say? [0:25:10] CP: Well, that, a small thing like an outdoor adventure will cover all the pillars of healthy aging. People say, but I can go to a book club, or I go to the gym, and all that is great. You got to do that too. But I'm just saying, it's to have the whole enchilada, basically, of community, purpose, novelty, vitality, and keep surprising and up ending expectations. Keep that positive mindset about your own aging. It's really an outdoor activity that will do it for you. Here's my final thing is that, with the climate chaos, we need to get out because it's disappearing. We only save what we love, as somebody said, someone very smart. So, if we begin to see just how vital the outdoors is, maybe we can save it before it's too late. [0:25:56] PF: I love that. I love that. Caroline, you have written a fantastic book. We are going to tell our listeners where they can find it. I strongly encourage them to pick it up during your 50s or up, or if you know someone, it is truly one of those books that gives so much inspiration, and even excitement about moving into the next 30 years. First of all, thank you for writing it, and then thank you for coming on the show and talking about it. [0:26:19] CP: Such an honor. Thank you, Paula. Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:26:25] PF: That was Caroline Paul, talking about how outdoor adventure improves our lives as we age. If you'd like to learn more about Caroline, follow her on social media, or buy a copy of her book, Tough Broad. Just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every Tuesday, we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.   [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: How Happiness is Changing in the U.S. With Dr. Lara Aknin [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 461 of Live Happy Now. Last week, the annual World Happiness Report was released. This week's guest is helping break down what it all means. I'm your host Paula Felps. Today, I'm talking with Dr. Lara Aknin, a distinguished professor of psychology at Simon Fraser University and one of the editors of the World Happiness Report. She's here to tell us why the US fell out of the top 20 happiest countries for the first time since the report has been published, which age group is thriving in the US, and talk about why our young people are struggling right now. She also shares some really encouraging findings about well-being and dementia, as well as how benevolence is changing worldwide. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:49] PF: Lara, thank you for joining me today on Live Happy Now. [00:00:53] LA: Thank you for having me. [00:00:54] PF: Every year, this is such a big time for us because the World Happiness Report comes out. We dig into it, and we try to cover it the best that we can. So I appreciate you sitting down and talking about it. How long have you been involved in working with the report? [00:01:08] LA: I have been involved for about five years now, back in 2019 I believe it was. My memory since COVID is a little fuzzy, but I believe it was 2019. My colleagues and I contributed a chapter to the World Happiness Report on some of the research we do regarding kindness and happiness. Then shortly after that, I was invited to join the editorial team. [00:01:28] PF: Nice, nice. Such an important report and we learn new things every year. For those who don't know, the report has certain themes it covers every year. Then it'll kind of branch out and do other subtopics every year. One thing they talked about this year was age and happiness. I wanted to know if you had any insight into why they decided to look at that topic. [00:01:53] LA: There are lots of reasons. One major one is that there's this burst of new research looking at some really interesting ideas and questions. So you'll see one of the chapters in this year's report written by Dr. Emily Willroth and her colleagues, I think, presents some of this really groundbreaking research, trying to understand not necessarily actually the predictors of happiness across the lifespan but the consequences of happiness for really important outcomes like dementia. Their chapters kind of split broadly into two parts, but one of the parts that I find so intriguing and then so excited about is how happiness or life satisfaction and well-being might be a protective factor against dementia. As a huge subset of the population is aging, all of us eventually, hopefully will. There's no known cure for dementia. This seems like one very important meaningful way in which we can intercept and perhaps improve the lives for many people. The new research is one key reason that it was – we chose to focus on this year's report on aging and happiness. But the other is the availability of data. One of the main sources, one of the incredible sources of information we draw upon for the World Happiness Report is the Gallup World Pole, which for those listeners who don't know is probably the most representative sample of planet Earth. So it's not just convenient samples drawn from wealthy nations, but it's individuals from rich and poor countries. They go out of their way to reach those who we might not be able to reach otherwise. Now, there are almost two decades worth, I believe, of data that allow us to look back and see these not only trends in happiness over time but allows us to try to tease apart some of the cohort effects from age effects, which is really exciting and promising for getting a closer look into what's going on in happiness across the lifespan. [00:03:38] PF: They touched on so many different things. As an editor, I wondered if there was anything that stood out to you about age and happiness on a global sense, as you were working on the project. [00:03:49] LA: Yes. There are a couple notable findings, and the report is so rich with so much information. I encourage your listeners to go have a look. There's so much to be seen. But two things that jump out at me that I think are kind of remarkable across the data sets and the information presented is, first and foremost, that around the world looking at global data, the happiness is highest among the young, so those under 30. Then begins to drop and remains relatively consistent over the rest of one's life. Now, that's looking at global data, which is really interesting. But get a little bit more interesting and sometimes unfortunate when you drill down into specific world regions. One that I think might be of particular interest to perhaps many listeners is that in North America, particularly in Canada and the United States, the young have started rating their life satisfaction quite a bit lower. In fact, it is one of the only world regions in the world where the young are less happy than the old. That is kind of an interesting point of complexity and intrigue and, for many, I imagine some concern. That is one fascinating finding. [00:04:54] PF: I was completely astonished to see that because in our case of people under the age of 30 in the US ranked 62nd. To put that in perspective, Russia is 68th. Young people in Russia are not that much more unhappy than young people in the US. Do we know what is driving that? [00:05:16] LA: That is a really important question. It’s a complex answer, as you might imagine. But, yes, if I can just pause and highlight what I think is so noteworthy here, which is that, yes, within the United States, older individuals, so those 16 above, are rating their lives much better. I believe there's over a 50 ranking gap between older adults in the United States compared to those under 30. There's something pretty unique going on here with the younger individuals. Why is this going on is a difficult thing to kind of parse, right? These data sets, the complexity and the size of them give us a huge snapshot of what is going on. But the challenge of that is that there are so many moving pieces. It's hard to pinpoint one exact explanatory feature. That being said, some of the authors of chapter two in the report, Dr. John Helliwell and Haifang Huang have done some deep dives to try to understand what's going on. There's a little bit of traction in understanding. In particular, what these two and their co-authors have found is that adults under 30, so Americans under 30, are reporting some interesting differences to compare to those who were 30 several decades ago, so those who were 30 in the early 2000s and up to 2010. In particular, those under 30 these days are reporting less support from their friends and family than did earlier cohorts. They're also reporting less freedom to make life choices, more stress and anxiety, but not more anger, less confidence in the government, greater perceptions of corruption. Another important one is feeling less satisfied with their living situation. I think although incomes are not necessarily especially low, I think they're stagnating relative to the cost of living. So that might be a point of frustration or stress and anxiety for some younger Americans under 30. It seems to be this cocktail of predictors that are associated with lower levels of well-being among those under 30 and different from those that were reported about a decade and a bit ago. [00:07:23] PF: At the same time, those young people are – the report shows that those young people are more benevolent. They're more altruistic, which is so interesting that they would be dissatisfied because one thing we talk about quite a bit on Live Happy Now is how – and you would know this about practicing kindness and acts of altruism. Those increase our satisfaction. That, to me, was just a striking disparity that we have this generation that's more giving, more altruistic, but they're also more dissatisfied. [00:07:56] LA: Exactly. That was going to be my other notable thing. It's always a silver lining for me. Or a really fascinating spotlight in the report is this increase, this upshoot in benevolence, especially since COVID, since pre-COVID years. You're right. Across all three metrics of benevolence that are captured in the Gallup World Poll data, which is helping a stranger, donating to charity, and volunteering. Each of these are relatively high across the board. They're higher post-COVID than they were before COVID. There don't seem to be whopping generational differences in this. If anything, we're seeing the young being equally, in most cases, benevolent across the board. They're more likely to help a stranger and less likely to donate. That might be partially because they just have lower levels of income. But you're right. Benevolence doesn't seem to be the explanatory factor. One might wonder if this is even buffering or supporting their well-being that these differences reported might be even more extreme if these weren't the actions people were taking. I just want to point out, though, that those benevolence ratings are global, and the findings that we're talking about here are within the United States. So I don't know exactly the benevolence levels within the United States, but that would be an interesting question to drill down upon. [00:09:07] PF: The report does an excellent job of parsing out this information, but what it doesn't do and intentionally is say, “Here's the cure.” We get a lot of information, and I think that's what a lot of us want to know is like, wow, if our young people are that unhappy, what is it that we can do about it? As you mentioned, there are several factors driving this, so it's not this small ship that we can just turn on a dime. As people who are not in our 30s and younger, what do we do? How do we start helping support young people and changing the way that they feel? [00:09:45] LA: That's a really important question. Like you say, I don't know if there's a perfect solitary answer to this. I think there's a lot to be considered in part because some of these may be societal changes, right? Concerns, for instance, about less freedom to make life choices and concerns about corruption and less trust in government would be hard for any caring friend or family member to interject upon and maybe change things. It's possible perhaps that there might be other pathways that are a little bit more tractable, so for instance, the support from friends and family. Interestingly, I believe some of the data suggest that these individuals are not necessarily receiving less contact, if you will, from friends and family but perhaps feel like they're not receiving enough. Or at least they're less satisfied with the support from friends and family. One perhaps avenue or strategy for support might be to have some very open conversations with the younger adults in your life and kind of see how they're doing. Perhaps find ways to offer additional support. There might be other factors. I mean, it's hard to support someone's satisfaction with their living conditions. I mean, that's not an easy way to just step in and change. Some of these may be more systematic or societal-level concerns. I’m not saying that this is out of our reach, but I think there's a lot of conversation to be had about which ways to kind of step in and support adults under 30. [00:11:09] PF: Do you think knowing this that now we are going to do that, now that we are aware of this situation is becoming more dire? Do you think there's a community starting with a scientific community that shares this information? Then are we going to start saying, okay, we need to enact some change, some real change in the world to make this better? [00:11:28] LA: I remain overoptimistic. I think one of the main thrusts and the rationales for the World Happiness Report is to present some of this leading evidence on the science of happiness to the public and also to policymakers and individuals who are concerned about the well-being of their constituents and their community members and their neighbors. The hope is that by bringing some hard science to this question to delineate and demonstrate the trends over time and shine a spotlight on those who perhaps are not thriving or doing as well as we would have hoped can direct attention to those areas. There's always a lot of discussion. There are many governments that are trying to pay attention to these well-being reports. I know many governments are starting to ask these questions regarding life satisfaction and well-being in their census data. I think that's a step in the right direction. But as you'll see in chapter I believe it's three of this year's report, which is focused on the youth, there is actually not as much data as we would like to grapple with some strong insights, especially in developing nations. A lot of the evidence is lacking, and so that raises some questions about how people who perhaps are really struggling are not even being assessed and observed. I think that we're certainly making strides, but I think we're far from perfect data and perfect insights on how to address this. [00:12:41] PF: I think that's one thing the World Happiness Report does is every year, we talk about it. Then it's in the spotlight. It's in the news. Then it kind of, uh, slips out. That’s why I love the fact that it comes out every year. It doesn't let us forget that, hey, we still have – this is an important thing. Happiness is an important indicator, and we need to be studying it, looking at it, and figuring out what's going on in our world. [00:13:05] LA: I think it's important because happiness isn't just the absence of negative emotions. It's more than that. I think there's – as chapter four in this year's report nicely illustrates, these protective factors matter a lot. It's not just this wishy-washy vague sense of well-being that we can hope for, but that it matters for some of these really consequential outcomes, even beyond the fact that we care about our own and our neighbor’s well-being. It predicts some really mean meaningful hard outcomes. I think it helps, like you say, shine a spotlight on some of these important pressing issues. [00:13:37] PF: We've talked about the not-so-great news with the young people but great news with the boomers. US is number 10 among the age group, the baby boomer age group for happiness. That's incredibly good news. That means we're doing great in terms of people, what is that, from 1964? [00:13:55] LA: Yes. I think it – yes. I think you're right. I think you're right. I think it's 1964. Yes. [00:14:01] PF: Why? Why? [00:14:03] LA: I think we know less about that. I mean, part of it is I think although objectively boomers have, I think, less in the way of social contact, I think that there is a greater satisfaction with it. That is one memory I have from reading this report multiple times. But I don't think we have never done a drill down among the older boomers in the United States or even the boomer generation just globally to figure out what is exactly the unique predictors there. What we do know is that countries that rank highly among the older boomer generation tend to be those that are ranked more highly overall but to be in the top 20 and certainly among the top 10 and 15. I think the United States is an interesting case where the happiness of the young, those under 30, is really [inaudible 00:14:48] the average ranking of the United States because these adults under 30 are reporting significantly lower levels of life satisfaction. Yes, for the first time in a number of years, the United States has dropped out of top 20. I think the boomers are what's elevating the ranking, but the young are what is dropping it down. [00:15:06] PF: That's interesting. When I first started covering this, we were at number 13. Then it was 50. It’s like – [00:15:13] LA: I mean, we don't have any measurement of this but some. It might have to do with political tensions or divisions in growing levels of income inequality but also well-being inequality that is mentioned a bit in chapter two of the report. But it is also, I think, those societal, political level factors in the United States might be contributing perhaps especially. Who knows? This remains to be tested. Perhaps might be shifting the well-being of the young or influencing the well-being of the young perhaps more so. [00:15:43] PF: Well, does what drives happiness in older populations differ from what drives happiness in younger age groups? Is that part of it at all? [00:15:52] LA: It certainly could be. I don't think chapter two includes any analyses that would answer that question specifically. I mean, many of the – because it's a global report with so much data, usually the focus is on looking for commonalities, not differences across the world but also across the ages. But I don't think there was any analysis that looked at whether, for instance, social relationships was a greater predictor of well-being amongst the old versus the young. That's a really intriguing question. There are some interesting psychological theories that might bring to bear on this question. I'm happy to mention them, but I don't know if it – they weren't tested directly in the report. So you can let me know if that's a – [00:16:31] PF: Yes, go ahead. I'd love to hear it. [00:16:33] LA: Sure. Laura Carstensen has this really fascinating theory arguing that when we're young, time seems expansive. Normally, people prioritize these kind of efforts to go out to search for unique new experiences. People prioritize having usually a diverse set of friends, a diverse set of experiences because it's all about learning and trying new things. It's like this very exploratory mindset. Then as people get older and people start to realize that time is not infinite, instead of taking this purely exploratory approach as they navigate the world, they prioritize things that are particularly meaningful and valuable and positive to them. How this matters, for instance, for predictors of happiness but also for relationships might be instead of trying to maintain dozens of different friend groups, people might prioritize these three, four individuals, these three or four networks in their lives that tend to bring them the most joy and meaning and whatever it is they prioritize. This theory suggests that the predictors of happiness may vary slightly as a function of age. Generally speaking, most people derive a lot of joy from helping others, from being with others. But who exactly are those others may differ, right? When you're 18 and starting college, that might be trying everything there is. When you're 75, that might be your closest friends. Social relationships might matter across the lifespan, but who are those contributing individuals might vary. [00:17:59] PF: That makes so much sense. To me, it was so interesting that this report really focuses a lot on age because when we look at how aging is portrayed like, “Oh, you're going to be lonely. You're going to be falling apart,” there are so many messages that's negative about aging. When you look at this report, it's really an inspirational read. It shows you that that's not what is going on. Has that actually changed, or has it just been always portrayed incorrectly? [00:18:32] LA: It's important to note it might be inspirational for folks living in North America and Australia, New Zealand, where this trend is happiness generally speaking across the lifespan is on an upward trajectory. But there certainly are world regions where the reverse is true. For instance, in Central and Eastern Europe, I believe that it's a downward trend across the lifespan. There are some notable differences across the globe. Different cultures hold aging in different regards, right? In many Eastern cultures, it's an honor. There's a lot of honor and respect for the elders, whereas that isn't necessarily true across all different nationalities and ethnicities and religious affiliations. So perhaps in North America it's kind of seen like as you get older, you're out of touch. You're falling apart. It might be a lot of negative portrayals. But I don't think that's always the case worldwide. But I agree with you. I think certainly from a North American perspective, especially Canada and the United States, the older adults are reporting their lives as much more aligned with their ideal than are the young. That is perhaps inspirational for many people who are in that generation. [00:19:39] PF: Yes, because we're all headed in that direction. We want to know it's getting better, right? [00:19:44] LA: Hopefully, it's all getting better. Yes, for sure. [00:19:47] PF: Well, there's so much in this report. What is it that you would think that is a takeaway that you hope that everybody would get from sitting down and spending some time with this report? [00:19:59] LA: Well, I think broadly speaking, I think the report does what I think and perhaps I'm very biased here, but I think it does a really great job of showcasing what I think is some of the best science on the question of happiness around the globe and some of the most cutting-edge interesting findings. Details aside for a second, I think the report, hopefully, is a nice demonstration, is a convincing demonstration of where the science of well-being is at and convinces many people that this is not a floofy self-help grounded literature but rather a hard science where people are able to self-report how they feel about their lives and how scientists can try to understand what are these correlates, and how does it track over time, and how does it differ across age and region. Many important variables that help us give some traction on perhaps how to improve the lives of others. I hope, big picture, people walk away with an understanding that this is a hard science and one that we can really sink our teeth into and try to improve the lives of many people with. I think two highlights for me in this report are, one, the benevolence finding that we talked about already. I realized that there are some mixed pictures. There’s a lot of nuance in this report. Looking across the world is always difficult with hundreds of thousands of individuals offering their take on their lives. There's so much data to dig into. Normally, just looking around the globe is complex and nuanced enough. But now to split it by age group and cohort or generation is even more nuanced. But I think the benevolence finding is one of the clearest cut across the globe, which is that there's been this increase in benevolence that it's pretty consistent across the generations. I think while many things can sometimes look a mess in this world and in people's well-being, this is one very rosy optimistic picture showing that people are in perhaps better – higher than we would assume, looking out for one another and helping their neighbors, helping their communities. The other finding that I think is really important and worth showcasing is the findings from chapter four, which is on the dementia findings I mentioned earlier, which is just how all of us are, hopefully, getting older. Unfortunately, dementia is one thing that raises significant challenges for many people who are facing these cognitive impairments. But also for their friends and their family who are trying to help these individuals be well and enjoy their lives, even with this very difficult diagnosis. I think there are some really interesting and important information to bring to bear in this year's report about how well-being and life satisfaction can be a really important protective factor for that. I just think it raises the stakes for some of the – thinking about some of this research. It's not just about feeling good, which I think is motivation enough in itself to care about our own and other’s well-being. But I think it really raises concerns about what it is we want in our communities and our societies and how we take care of each other. [00:22:48] PF: I agree 100%. This was so interesting. Lara, I appreciate you sitting down and talking with me. You really distilled a lot of great information for it. We're going to tell our listeners how they can find the report, how they can digest it. We're going to run some things on our website about it. But thank you for making sense of it for us and taking this time with me today. [00:23:07] LA: My pleasure. Thank you for the invitation. [00:23:12] PF: That was Dr. Lara Aknin, talking about findings from the World Happiness Report. If you'd like to download a full copy of the report, read additional stories about the findings, or learn more about Lara, just visit us at livehappy.com. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Live Happy Now. If you aren't already receiving us every week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Healing Paws With Heather Stohr   [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:07] PF: Welcome to Happiness Unleashed with your host, Brittany Derrenbacher, presented by Live Happy. Plenty of research shows that pets can help us heal, and now even hospitals are warming up to the idea. I'm Paula Felps, and this week I'm joining Brittany as she sits down with Heather Stohr, a certified child life specialist at Norton Children's in Louisville, Kentucky. Heather manages the facility dog program at Norton Healthcare, which allows animals to play a very important role in the healing process for patients, families, and their caregivers. Join us as we learn how they are changing lives one hospital bed at a time. [EPISODE] [0:00:45] BD: Tell us what a facility dog program is? [0:00:49] HS: Sure, yeah. Our facility dog program launched in 2017. We have 12 full-time working dogs, and our dogs are trained to help really just support our patients, and our families, and our staff as well in the hospital setting. They just provide that amazing love and laughter like humans cannot, so they asked our leadership team about doing something like that, and they were sure like, “Sure. This sounds great.” So, I did some research and talked to some other hospitals that had programs in place. Yeah, so about a year later, we were up and running. [0:01:30] BD: You're in Louisville, Kentucky. Tell everyone what the name of the program is, because it's so cute. [0:01:35] HS: Yes. Our program is Heel, Dog, Heal. So, H-E-E-L, Dog, H-E-A-L. Yes, our marketing team did a great job of coming up with a name for our program, and I love it very much. [0:01:48] BD: Who are the patients? Who are the patients that the facility dogs are visiting? [0:01:53] HS: What's really unique about our program is we have full-time facility dogs that work in our pediatric areas. Then also dogs that work in our adult areas. I really love that about our program. You'll find that many children's hospitals have facility dog programs, but Norton Healthcare decided that we needed them for children and adults, which I totally agree with. They, in pediatrics, they are on our med surge unit. They are in our pediatric intensive care unit, in our cardiac intensive care unit. We have a facility dog that works on our oncology unit, and then in the outpatient oncology space as well. Then in the adult areas, they just round on the different units, and physicians and nursing staff can put in consults for our dogs if there's a specific need for a patient or a family and have a facility dog visit. [0:02:45] PF: I would love to hear what a facility dog does, like what's a day in their life, and how do they respond to the patients? I would just love to hear what they do. [0:02:55] HS: Yeah. It looks different in the different settings, obviously. For a lot of our patients, it's about getting them up and moving after surgery, so it's much more fun to walk a dog around the unit instead of walking on a walker or having the physical therapist help you. That's true with our adult patients as well, and really in pediatrics, we're focusing on that, but we help our adults too, because they're nervous about getting up. They might have sutures, or they're scared that it's going to be painful and hurt. They do a lot. We do a lot of co-treating with physical therapy, as well as occupational therapy, so it might be something like they need to get some movement in their arms so they can pet the facility dog, they can throw a ball, and the dog will go get the ball and bring it back. It's getting them up. The emulation part of it is a big deal. For our younger patients, a lot of them don't want to take their medication, or taking medicine is hard or it tastes yucky. Our facility dogs can take medicine from a syringe or a medicine cup, so we model that with our patients using pretend medicine. It's just water, but we show them, and nine times out of ten, they're willing to try it if the dog can do it, and kind of the same with when we need them to get their hospital down on, to go back to the OR. We can dress the dogs up in hospital gowns, it makes it just a little bit less scary, a little more normalizing. [0:04:19] BD: How do you see the healing process shift, like emotionally, especially for kids, once dogs enter the room? It's truly amazing. It's almost immediate. When we walk in the room, if I'm by myself, as supposed to when I have my facility dog, when the dog is there, it's almost an immediate, either calming reaction or excitement. The other day, Juno and I were in the Pediatric Intensive Care Unit, and she was on the bed with a patient, and then the doctor walked in and said, “Wow, I haven't seen you smile this much, and the inflection in your voice just exudes happiness.” She's like, “Well, dah, I mean, there's a dog in my bed.” They just have this amazing way of connecting with people that I myself as a human do not. I don't know if it's, there's no judgment there, they don't ask for anything. It's pretty amazing that I get to be a part of that every day, all day long. Pretty cool. [0:05:20] PF: I think that is such an amazing way to approach healing, because we know the emotions that you get from being with animals, and how much that releases. How do you train these dogs? What does it take for a dog to become a facility dog? Because I look at mine and I know Brittany will agree, because she knows my dog. There's no way a hospital would ever let them in. [0:05:44] HS: Yeah. Our dogs are trained through a wonderful local organization called Paws with Purpose. They breed and train their dogs for facility dog and assistance dog work. Not all the dogs make the cut, but they start training them when they're very young at like eight weeks old. The training process is about two years. As the dog gets a little bit older and further along in the training process, they are deciding like, do we think that this one would be better as an assistance dog or service dog, or can this one handle more people touching them and working in a facility where that's a little bit different than being task trained. It's really interesting. They train them out at the women's prison. The Kentucky Correctional Institution for Women. They have inmate handlers there that train the dogs, and they are amazing. They do the bulk of the training for these pups, but on the weekends, each pup in training has a weekend handler that picks them up. The job of the weekend handler is to help socialize them, take them to the mall, take them to the grocery store, and just get them out and about and exposed to things that they wouldn't see in the prison setting. [0:06:51] BD: Right. that's healing for those women too. [0:06:53] HS: Absolutely. When I got my dog, I was able to meet with her handler at the prison. Our dogs actually continue to go back there. They do their baths and check-ins. So, the handlers there get to hear stories about the great work that their dogs are doing out in the community, like I said, they really do the bulk of the training and are amazing. The things that they teach these dogs, not only just basic cues, but also like really fun and creative tricks, I guess you would call it. It's a really neat program. [0:07:27] PF: When you tell us that, it amazes me, because this one dog, look at how many lives this one dog changes from the time it's a puppy. I mean, it's changing the woman in prison who is training it. It's the weekend handler. It's making an impact. It changes your life to have this dog in your presence and every patient. I think that is a phenomenal touch that just one dog has throughout its lifespan. [0:07:53] HS: So true. It's so true. I had the pleasure of being a puppy trainer for Paws with Purpose, and a pup that I had actually got placed at Norton Children's Autism Center. I do still get to see him, but he was with me for several years. It was tough when I knew it was placement time for him, but also this just feeling of joy and excitement that the amount of people and children that he and his new handler are helping, and it's been amazing. I'm lucky enough that I get to see it. [0:08:25] BD: My work used to be in adoptions. I would work with so many different families to have dogs be adopted. The question always that I would get from people interested and being a foster home is like, how do you give the animal up? How do you let that animal go to someone else? How was that for you, like your first experience with that? [0:08:48] HS: It was mixed feelings for sure, because this dog, I had him a little bit longer, because I had him through COVID, the pandemic. Things stopped for a while, so the dogs through the pandemic had a little bit longer period of training time. I got to keep him a little bit longer and have him more regularly at my home, but when it was time, like I said, I had some mixed feelings. There was some definitely happy tears, and then really, I was excited that he was going to stay in our program. So, he's part of the Heel, Dog Heal Program, and I get to see him when we all get together. That is really great. He and his new mom, his new handler are doing such amazing work. It just, it brings me so much joy. It really fills the heart. [0:09:34] BD: Speaking of joy, can you tell the listeners about who is with you today? [0:09:39] HS: Yes. I have my eight-year-old golden retriever, Juno. She is a white, fluffy ball of fur, smiles everywhere she goes. Well, typically she's holding a stuffed animal in her mouth. She loves to carry her stuffies, especially if it's a lamb chop. So, we get to walk through the hospital halls and put smiles on people's faces that don't even pet or touch her. It's pretty amazing if you walk through the hospital with me to see how people react when they see her. [0:10:10] BD: Her Instagram handle is @juno_bringsjoy? [0:10:13] HS: That's right. Yes, yes. That she does. She brings so much joy to my life and my family, but also just the people that we get to interact with and serve every day at the hospital. We're here at the hospital, when people are here, it's a scary time for them. Maybe they don't know what's going on. Maybe they're waiting for a new diagnosis, but maybe their family members are in a lot of pain or the doctors are trying to figure out what's wrong. We get to be a little bit of light in that day and try to make their day just a little bit better. Yeah, that's why we get to have the facility dogs in the hospital. They reduce that stress and anxiety of being in this hospital setting. There's been research that shows it reduces blood pressure and heart rate. All those things, that's when I was asking my leadership team if I could look more into it. Those were some of the things that I came back with of the evidence base and how it could help our patients and families. Really, the focus was on our patients when we first started the program, but when the pandemic hit, the dogs had to go home. We just didn't know what that was going to look like. So, they were out of work for about six weeks. Then I got a phone call saying they could come back, but the focus was, they could only see staff. What we learned through that, not that the dogs didn't really see the staff before with the focus only being on staff when we were able to come back in 2020, was really we found, happier employees made for happier patients. If that makes sense. That trickles down. So, we've continued that and rounding on our staff, going to staff meetings. If we get an ask, if they've had a rough day on a particular unit, and we try our best to make rounds there just to check in and say hello. [0:11:57] PF: They are such well-rounded workers. I mean, they do so much for everybody that they come in contact with. I wondered, I'm glad you brought up the way that you were able to find the research and bring it up to your team, because it used to be they wouldn't have dreamed of letting an animal near a hospital. Is there any pushback still on things like that or do people realize the benefits, there's not a risk, but there are benefits? What's the – [0:12:23] HS: Yeah. I would say in the beginning, there was definitely some pushback. I don't even know if I call it pushback, but it was more about we wanted to make sure that we were going to keep our patients safe from an infection prevention standpoint. So, had no hospital acquired infections that have been traced back to any of our dogs. The program has been going since 2017, so I'm happy to say that. We put some parameters in place, people use hand hygiene before and after petting our dogs. If the dog is going to get up in the bed with a patient, we put a flat barrier sheet down and then the dog gets on the on the sheet. Then when the dog gets off, we take the sheet off of the bed. Our dogs are, well Juno gets a bath every week. Most of them go. It's about every seven to 10 days. Then we groom them every day when they come in from being outside, we're wiping their paws. They are in amazing shape, that is for sure. Both inside and out. What they eat, they are on a very strict diet. We want to keep them in good shape, so they can work longer. They probably eat healthier than I do in all honesty. [0:13:28] BD: Yeah. All our dogs do. [0:13:30] HS: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. [0:13:33] BD: Yeah. Heather, you're a certified child life specialist. I feel like you can uniquely answer this question. This month is International Day of Happiness. Also, the month of March on the Jewish calendar is the month of joy. How do the dogs in your program bring happiness and joy to children? [0:13:53] HS: Yeah. That's a great question. I think what it comes down to is just their unconditional love, like I said before, there's no judgment. There's the kind of like, that trust and safety and it's normal. It's a normalizing experience. Many children and families have pets at home. When they're in the hospital, they're missing their pet. It gives them that sense of love and connection when they're in the hospital. It's also really amazing when we have children that aren't being open or wanting to talk about what is going on, or happening, or how they're feeling, whether that's they're having pain, but they don't want to disclose that or something traumatic has happened. Truly amazing. Just to walk in as you start petting that dog, they just start talking. We're not asking questions, but they just have this sense of just, like this is a safe environment. The dogs also do a great job of just giving our patients and families an alternate focus. When you talk to our patients, most of them will say there's been a reduction in pain or anxiety after seeing the facility dog. Our dogs are requested for certain things, because they have helped a certain patient in the past. So, we try to make that happen as well. They also, can be really goofy in times and make you laugh. Sometimes in the hospital, it's hard to laugh, right? Because you're so worried and your hurting, nervous about something, they have a great way of making us laugh, writing that humor. [0:15:26] BD: Yeah. That's a lot of duality, right? Because you have a lot of heavy, tough, serious, painful things going on. Then you have these dogs that just come in and they will just ground you in the present moment with their joy and goofiness. I mean, they don't care. They're just going to be them. [0:15:45] HS: They don't. My work is a child life specialist. We work with families that are grieving or in a bereavement situation. So, we do utilize our dogs for those types of situations and really to see my dog work the room and go to the people that need her most is pretty amazing as well. We had worked with a particular family who, Juno and I had seen this woman for about six or seven weeks and she passed away. The family asked that we come up to the room. Juno went to the very people that needed her. I just let her off leash. It was really an amazing experience for me just to see her. She just knew what to do. I didn't give her a cue. I didn't ask her to go see a certain person or anything. I'll never forget. There's many experiences like that, but this one just really sticks out, because we had visited the family for many weeks and gotten to know them pretty closely. [0:16:46] BD: Dogs are so intuitive. I mean, animals in general are so intuitive, but that's beautiful. [0:16:51] HS: For sure. [0:16:52] PF: How do you know what to do? Because the dog is trained. How is a handler trained? What kind of program do they go through? [0:16:59] HS: Yeah. Our handlers work with Paws with Purpose, will teach us everything we need to know about being a handler, so we do about 30 hours of book work with them. Then we start some hands-on training with different dogs. You don't get to pick the dog that is going to be your dog. They have a matching system. They do a great job of looking at the work that the dog's going to be doing, and then what setting the dog will be in. But also, it's your home. What is it like at your home? Do you have a very active home? Do you have young children? Do you have older children? So, you're working with different dogs, just learning the mechanics. Our handlers make it look really easy, but there's a certain foot you step off with when you're getting ready to go and telling the animal let's go. If you step off with the other foot, they won't go. It's like learning all of those things. Paw with Purpose does a great job. They also come into our hospital to help the handler once they're matched with their dog. Then we do follow ups. There's weekly trainings on the weekends that we go to. Then they do a 30, 60, 90 day check in, and then yearly after that to make sure that we're keeping up with the dog skills. We're practicing and making sure they're in tip top shape. [0:18:11] BD: I have a different kind of question, because Paula and I have these smooshy face, brachycephalic breeds that, it's so hard to train. Just very unique, right? We love them. Is there a certain breed that is better equipped and easier to train and maybe a little bit more malleable to enter into these scenarios? [0:18:34] PF: Boston Terriers need not apply. [0:18:39] HS: Well, that's a great question. I think when you look at facility dog programs across the US, most of what you'll find are golden retrievers and Labrador Retrievers or a cross of the two, maybe. I do know some programs have like doodle mix, doodle crosses with a lab or a golden, but yeah, they're mainly, ours are all Labrador's golden retrievers or crosses of the two. Yeah. [0:19:01] PF: I'm pretty interested to know what made you want to do this? How did you get involved? Because if whether it started as a passing interest, it's now become central to you. How did you find out about it, what made you interested in it? How did it all evolve for you? [0:19:18] HS: Well, my entire life, I've had dogs and just throughout things personally in my own life have truly experienced the healing power of the animal. Then I had heard about in 2016, I'd heard about a couple other hospitals that were starting programs. We have a pet therapy program where people can bring their pet dog into our hospital for about an hour a week and visit with patients, but we saw a need to have the dogs here for longer periods of time. When I heard about other children's hospitals doing this, that's when I had approached my leadership team and just to see if they'd be interested, if I could even explore it and they were totally on board and amazing. I went to a conference actually, and gathered all the info and brought that back to the team. Then I started just gathering a team of people and finding champions within our hospital that felt the same way or felt that it would be beneficial for our patients and families. That's just how we started. [0:20:20] BD: What have the dogs that you've worked with and in your career taught you about life, and living, and healing, and community, and love? [0:20:32] HS: Wow, that's a great question. I think I would say for that one is just to, I guess, live life to the fullest, be present in the moment, and don't be afraid to be a little bit silly or funny at times. I love the goofiness of our dogs and really just to, I guess, share the love and connection that we have as humans. Dogs can do that so easily. I think sometimes as humans, we step back and don't want to say things, but the dogs have such a great way of doing that. So, I think it's important to learn from them. Yeah. [0:21:08] BD: There's a big event coming up in October. Tell us – the facility dog summit. [0:21:13] HS: Yes. I am so excited. Our hospital was chosen to host the next facility dog summit. It will be October 14th and 15th at the Muhammad Ali Center here in Louisville, Kentucky. Facility dog handlers throughout the United States will come and we will talk all things facility dog. We're currently working on our schedule now. People are submitting abstracts. Some of that will involve research that has been done over the past couple of years. We'll talk about all kinds of different things. I guess sometimes maybe the struggles of being a handler and what that looks like. Interventions that handlers are doing with their dogs in the hospital setting. Just sharing knowledge and with everybody throughout the facility dog community. [0:21:57] BD: We always like to end the show sharing a story of an animal that is doing meaningful, memorable, magical work in the community. Is there an animal that you work with or have worked within the past that stands out to you? [0:22:12] HS: I manage the program at the hospital. I get to hear all the amazing stories of impact. I'm always asking for those from my handlers. I don't know if I could pick just one, honestly, because they each have done some truly amazing work and they do it day in and day out. It's hard to pick one. I don't know. I feel a little selfish if I pick my own dog, right? [0:22:40] BD: [Inaudible 0:22:40]. It’s allowed. [0:22:41] HS: Yeah, exactly. I obviously think she does amazing work, but I know it's happening throughout the hospital walls here at Norton Healthcare. We're very blessed to have this program. [0:22:55] BD: Well, Heather, thank you so much. This program and what you're doing and all the animals in the community, it's a gift. It's really beautiful, meaningful work that you all are doing. Thank you so much for coming on the show, and for sharing Juno, and the program, and the kids. Thank you. [0:23:11] HS: You are welcome. [OUTRO] [0:23:13] PF: That was Brittany Derrenbacher, talking with Heather Stohr. If you'd like to learn more about the facility dog program about Paws with Purpose or follow Juno, the therapy dog on social media, just visit our website @livehappy.com. Of course, Brittany will be back here next month to talk more about how pets bring us joy, help us heal and can be some of our greatest teachers. Until then, for everyone at Live Happy, this is Paula Felps reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Meet Happy Activist Will Thomas and Celebrate the International Day of Happiness [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 460 of Live Happy Now. On March 20th, we celebrate the International Day of Happiness, and that makes this the perfect time to talk to a happy activist. I'm your host, Paula Felps. Today, I'm talking with Will Thomas, who founded Good News Magazine in the midst of the pandemic to give people a break from the steady stream of negative news. What was supposed to be a one-time publication has turned into a growing media brand, and he's here to tell us how that happened. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:36] PF: Will, thank you so much for joining me for Live Happy Now. [00:00:39] WT: Thank you. I'm excited to be able to talk to you about what we're doing. [00:00:42] PF: This is a big week for us at Live Happy because it's the week of International Day of Happiness that actually happens the day after this episode airs. We've been celebrating happiness all month with a campaign we called HappyActs, where we encourage people to go out and do things for other people and build happiness in their communities. From the moment I first heard your story, I knew that I had to get you on the air as a happy activist because you embody this. You saw a need. People complain about we need good news, and you actually went out and did something about it. Tell us your story. [00:01:17] WT: We were in the direct mail shop republication business until two years ago, 2022. It was a great business. We served small businesses in Southern Milling, Tennessee. It’s a family business. Then we loved helping all those companies and had customers for 40 years. It was rewarding. Then COVID happened for a lot of businesses. Our business was under pressure in some elements on the print side. COVID, I think, made those wounds and those risks, highlighted them more. While we were still performing in most of our markets, we knew it wasn't a business we're going to be doing for another 20 years. During COVID in 2021, we had sold ads for the Lincoln County Fair magazine here in Tennessee. The fair got canceled because of COVID, and so we were like, “What are we going to do?” I mean, I guess, selfishly, we didn't want to lose the revenue. It was like – because that was a tough time for revenue, and our team came up with the idea. Well, what if we did something positive? In general, media is pretty negative, [inaudible 00:02:23] news or the 24-hour news cycle. Then during COVID, it was even worse. Everybody seemed worried about things. It just felt all this negative pressure. So we came up with the idea in Lincoln County to feature 20 people in a magazine to tell their stories, how they're positively impacting the community. We did that, published that magazine that fall, and had great feedback from people about the quality of the content and the purpose of it. Six months later, we converted one of our direct mail shoppers to a monthly, and we call it Good News, Good News Magazine. Of course, we know Good News is a generic type term, and it's not – you can't trademark that name for a magazine or anything like that. But we went with that name because we felt like that 100% embodied what we wanted to do. From a reader perspective, I mean, the stories that our team has told and the feedback we've had has been great and definitely the fuel to keep us going. [00:03:21] PF: Because of that response, you ended up not just doing it in that single market. You have now expanded into other markets. I'm an old print person. I'm not that old, but I'm a print person. That's what my background was. We know that starting a print magazine right now, a lot of people would say, “What are you thinking?” But this is working for you. So can you talk about how it is now? It’s spilling over. You're doing other markets that you're entering into. [00:03:45] WT: Right. Yes. Early on when we first launched, so we have eight markets now. Five markets we had direct mail shoppers in, so we had some relationships to help in those markets. Then our three newest markets are Bowling Green, Kentucky; Lebanon, Tennessee, and then Lynch, Virginia. I'm excited about all three of those markets. They’re great communities. I'm proud of the content we put out, both editorial and photography. Then the layout is great. [00:04:10] PF: How do you go about finding the stories because it blows me away? Your magazines are how many pages? It's not like a little 32-page magazine, right? [00:04:18] WT: No, no, no. I think the minimum page count we're running right now would be 64. Around 60, 64 pages is the minimum. The stories, from day one, we've wanted them reader-generated. It's reader-generated, community-generated stories. We have publishing partners in all our markets who are the face of the magazine. It's really – they're in the community. It's their magazine for their community, and they look for stories. When they're talking to people in the community, they're always asking. We have this theme coming up. Do you know anybody that's really made a difference in the community we should tell a story on? Then each month, each magazine has six stories. Each year, we're telling 72 stories about people that have made a difference. It doesn't mean we can't tell a story about the flower shop across the street, but we wouldn't tell it about the business entity. We would tell it about the lady that works in the flower shop and the impact she's had on whatever her passion is to give back. It’s been real cool. We've created a pretty loyal readership audience of people that get the magazine because it is unique. Especially in the communities we're in, Bowling Green has a TV station. So they have a little bit bigger media presence in that market. But still, there's nobody in the market addressing the void that we're filling. Or there's very few people in any market doing it. I definitely don't think they're doing it at the quality we are because even – and you've seen the final piece. It's a magazine you put on your coffee table or nightstand, and you let it sit there. It's not something you're going to recycle as soon as you get done reading it. [00:05:50] PF: It's so interesting because you learn things about people in your community you didn't know they were doing. You learn things that are going on that – because in addition to the six profiles on people, you have other stories. Can you talk about your other sections that you have in there? You give other value to the readers as well. [00:06:10] WT: We have a theme each month. They change a little bit year after year, but it's one pretty straightforward to be like an education theme. We focus on educators or first responders. We have veterans. I think one of the ones that's been the most popular is in February, we have one about love. It’s about focus on couples and their life together. That's been cool. To your point, we're telling stories of people that they're the fabric of what makes the community great, but no one's ever told their stories. That's what's cool. I mean, it's a very micro thing, right? We're not – it's not macro and it's definitely hyper local type of content. But for the community, there is no better content because those people are the ones that have made the community great. [00:06:57] PF: Right. With newspapers these days, with them being so large, and they have a section that covers a certain area, a certain community. The way that community is going to get covered is usually not because something good happened. That's not where it comes out. So I would think it kind of changes how people see their community. If they can sit down every month and they're reading all these positive stories of great things people are doing, it takes away that sense of like, “Oh, my God. The world's going to hell in a handbasket.” [00:07:27] WT: Right, I agree. I think the whole newspaper mentality was if it bleeds, it relieves. It’s kind of – that might be back in the seventies and eighties. But that was kind of the mantra. That’s the opposite of what our mantra is. That kind of goes back to what you're saying about you hear these stories you never heard of before. It makes you feel good about the place because you didn't know Sally down the road was making that difference. Or I volunteered that long at the soup kitchen. And same for me, I grew up in the market I'm in today. God, I mean, most of the stories we tell, if I even kind of knew the person, I sure didn't know the story that we've told. [00:08:03] PF: How has it changed you as the publisher to be working in such a positive space? I know, for me, working with Live Happy, it has changed the lens through which I see the world. Now, you're getting to find. You are constantly discovering the good in people. What's that been like for you? [00:08:23] WT: I've always probably leaned toward being an optimist glass-half-full-type person. Before Good News, I guess it was more selfish. It was about our company and about my success and our company's success. What's cool about the Good News is, and you could call this selfish, but it's cool because now our success hinges on telling and making the community, telling positive stories and making the community better. It’s kind of cool that that's what we're putting our effort toward versus trying to make money. We love capitalism and business and trying to figure out how to make money, but the approach that we're able to do it now definitely makes it a little bit more peaceful, if you will, with the type of work we're doing. I mean, because it's gratitude. You're constantly looking at things that make you thankful, which is cool. [00:09:10] PF: It's more of a movement that you've created versus a machine that you're trying to feed. I think that really helps. I think people feel that, too. They receive that. When you look at your magazine, yes, we know it's a business venture but heartfelt. That's the only way I can describe the stories that are in it. They're very heartfelt. So kudos to your editorial team as well. They are very engaged in their storytelling. It feels like each one was written by somebody's son or daughter because it's like that's how much they care. That’s how much praise they have for that person that they're talking to. [00:09:42] WT: Right. One of our head photographers told a story at a company huddle a couple of months ago about one of the things we do in our company huddles is one teammate each month will tell what a typical day is like, just trying to help everybody in the company understand what that person does. She was just talking about the impact, and she didn't realize this when she first joined the team, the impact of the photography that she'd be doing and hearing these people's stories, how impactful it is on her and kind of emotional. Our writers are the same way. We've had a couple that have been with us from day one with the product, and they love what they do, which is great to lead that type of team that's so passionate. It makes my job a lot easier. I don't have to get them passionate. They're just passionate about the product. Yes. They've done a great job. You're right about the content side. I wish I could take more credit for that side, but I really have to give that all to the content team because they've really driven that. [00:10:33] PF: I remember years ago, a mentor told me a good story will always find its audience. That really seems to be what's happening with good news because I think it is. It's going to find its audience, and there is such a need. There's such a desire for positive news, to hear the good in the world. You're doing such a great job of just putting that right in their mailbox. [00:10:54] WT: Our magazines, all stories that are in there are about a person. I said that a little bit earlier, but it's not about a person that put on a gala and about all the people that attended that event. The stories about how people have made a difference and impact on some segment of their community, which is really completely different than anything even that newspapers used to have. The misnomer would be that we're telling good news, and maybe the city's putting in a new gym set for the community. Well, that story would not make it in good news. The story that would make it in good news would be the lady that has been trying to raise money for 20 years because when she grew up, this playground had an impact on her life. Now, she's trying to give back. That maybe would be a story we could tell. I do think we have a – or there is a niche there and definitely an itch we’re scratching in all communities that we're serving. [00:11:48] PF: I would say so. We are going to tell people how they can find you, how they can learn more about you. In the meantime, what do you really want people to take away from this? What do you want people to know about Good News? [00:11:59] WT: I think more for themselves is to find the good in their own communities. I think it's so easy to be negative and pessimistic. But when you live in this country, I think first that it gives you some appreciation when you see what goes on in other parts of the world. Then when you look locally, there's a lot of good and positive things. Just try to focus on the positive a little bit more versus the negative. [00:12:22] PF: That was Will Thomas talking about Good News Magazine. Now, we're bringing in Live Happy's own Laura Coppedge and Casey Johnson to talk about how you can celebrate the International Day of Happiness. Laura and Casey, thank you for joining me today. [00:12:37] LC: Thank you for having us, Paula. [00:12:39] CJ: Yes, thank you. [00:12:40] PF: Well, it's always a treat to get in the same room with you, even if we're not actually in the same room, but we're on the same screen. It's always fun to get together and talk about what we're doing. What we're doing right now is, of course, the International Day of Happiness tomorrow. I wanted to talk to you. Both of you are pros at this, your experience at celebrating. So I wanted to find out how each of you like to celebrate International Day of Happiness. Casey, we'll go alphabetically. We'll start with you. [00:13:08] CJ: All right, yes. Gosh, I can't believe we've been celebrating this for 10 years. That's amazing. I love it. Yes, I mean, the way that I celebrate, I mean, obviously, I have a happiness wall. I keep it simple over at my house. I just print the one that we have on our website. My partner and I will just fill it out. I also like to do just simple actions. I don't think it has to be like extravagant to make a difference. I'll start my day off just sitting outside, getting in the right mindset. Then I'll try to do something nice for someone else, whether it's a friend, family member, or stranger. [00:13:43] PF: I love that. How about you, Laura? [00:13:45] LC: We actually ended up kind of making it a tradition at our house. Just to give listeners a little background, Paula and I actually met on the International Day of Happiness the first time we did that at Live Happy 10 years ago. [00:13:56] PF: Ten years ago. It's our anniversary, Laura. [00:13:59] LC: It’s our friendiversary. [00:14:01] CJ: Now, that's a happy act. [00:14:02] PF: There it is. [00:14:03] LC: Which was an awesome thing. That is probably one of the best things that has come out of the International Day of Happiness for me is some of the friendships I formed, so love that. But I think it was the second year that we were at Live Happy, and we did an interaction at work where we made the happiness rocks, where we painted on the rocks, and we went and distributed them, which has positive messages on them. I don't think I did it that year with the kids. The third year with the kids, we did that at home and put them out in our neighborhood. The kids are teenagers now, but we've been doing that every year. It’s just always been – I think it probably means something a little different to them now. It was more like hide and seek when they were little kids. Now, they get that they're doing it kind of for younger kids or people. It was a really big thing for us, and it was fun to do right after the pandemic hit. It's a wonderful thing that we've kind of kept going. [00:15:07] PF: When I was still in Nashville, there was an organization that would do that. They'd collect rocks, and they'd paint them positive messages. Then you would just be – I'd be walking my dog and just find these rocks in various places around the neighborhood. I thought that's really cool. Love that. It just makes you smile. [00:15:22] LC: I think with HappyActs, it's just a positive thing. Not just a positive thing with an intention. It’s nice. [00:15:30] CJ: [inaudible 00:15:30] moments of joy. [00:15:32] PF: Exactly. It doesn't take much. [00:15:33] CJ: Little moments. [00:15:34] PF: It doesn't take a lot. Then it really changes the trajectory of somebody's day, including your own. [00:15:41] LC: It might change the trajectory of multiple people's days. [00:15:43] PF: That’s true. [00:15:44] LC: That whole like how it's supposed to expand and grow [inaudible 00:15:47]. [00:15:49] CJ: The ripple effect. [00:15:51] PF: 100%. We are rippling out with some new things going on this year. Laura, you mentioned the happiness walls that we've done for several years and have always had a great time with those, getting people to write on these walls how they're going to share happiness. This year, I know Deb touched on it when we had her on the show a couple weeks ago. But explain to us the digital wall and how people can jump on there and be part of this and use it as part of the celebration for the International Day of Happiness. [00:16:20] LC: I mean, first off, I know that sometimes I find that I go and I see news and I just realize that I'm getting down. I mean, the first thing that you can do is just if you need a pick me up, go and look at it. It's livehappy.com/wall. It's pulling in HappyActs from social media posts, not only things that we've posted about but things that are – anybody in the public that is aware of our thing can just hashtag HappyActs from their social media accounts, and that'll pull into the wall. Also, there's a QR code directly on the digital screen, where you can just scan the QR code and post right to the wall. What we're saying is it doesn't have to be something you've done because some people have a hard time being like, “I've done this thing.” It’s something that maybe had been done for you that day or a week before or maybe something that you've thought about for years and years, some of those little things that just changed your outlook or changed your day. [00:17:21] PF: I love this digital wall. It's so refreshing. You can just – every time you look at it, it's something new, and there's new acts on there and new things to do. Then, of course, if people run out of ideas, they can download our calendar. Casey, that's where you come in. You do such a fantastic job with this. Every year, you create our 31 Days of HappyActs and come up with some really innovative things that we can do to make our world a happier place. Talk to us about the downloadable calendar. [00:17:49] CJ: Well, first of all, thank you for that. It's definitely a team effort. Yes, this 31 Ideas for HappyActs, you can download it at livehappy.com/happyacts, first of all. It's free, and it's a great way to get inspired and follow along. We have a new happy act each day in March. It's just such a fun and easy way to focus on those positive acts and just get people engaged in an activity that is part of a global movement. [00:18:16] PF: You also have some cool stuff going on in the store. [00:18:19] CJ: Yes. All month long, people can save 20% off with code HappyActs 20 at checkout. We have the encouraging sticky notes, some Live Happy classic T-shirts. We have our Live Happy Now tie-dye T-shirt, which is one of my faves. Lots of fun stuff on the store right now. [00:18:38] PF: That's excellent. For both of you, what do you hope that people will do this International Day of Happiness? How do you hope it'll land with them, and what can they do to make it meaningful to them and to those around them? [00:18:53] LC: International Day of Happiness is just a really kind of cool thing. Not only do we look at what's going on in the world. But what's going on in our own little lives and the things that we can do to make the people that are closest to us just a little bit more positive throughout the day? If it's a hug, if it's a kind word, if it's holding the door, if it's a wave and a smile, I mean, it can change the way you feel day-to-day. [00:19:21] PF: Right, right. You never know what that person is going through, what it's going to do for somebody else, and how much they need that. I want to share a story real quick. A friend of mine, we've had him on the show. That's how he became a friend. His name is Greg Kettner. He has an initiative called WorkHappy. He's very good about posting on Facebook and Instagram just thoughtful messages like, “You matter to me.” Things like that. He's very intentional about it. He had shared with me that he had posted that exact sentiment. He had posted you matter to me. Someone reached out to him and said that they had actually been in the process of creating a plan to end their life because they thought nobody cared. They opened up their social media feed, and the first thing they saw was Greg's post, you matter to me. To Greg, it was just something that he does every day. I mean, he means it, but he had no idea what effect that was going to have. I love that story because we don't know. You don't know how your goodness is going to affect somebody and how it can change their day, their plan, their whole outlook on life. [00:20:28] LC: I love that. You're going to make me tear up. [00:20:30] CJ: Me, too. Where are the tissues? [00:20:33] PF: Casey, what about you? What do you hope that people take away from this? I think people need to know that both Laura and Casey are so invested in making this day happen and making this month really come to fruition and put a lot of effort into it. Casey, you especially really roll up your sleeves on this at this time of the year. What do you hope people get out of that? [00:20:53] CJ: My takeaway is bringing it back to the theme this year, bringing the world together. We see so much negativity, and I just hope that these simple actions, I mean, they really are so easy. I just hope that they can make a bigger impact, whether that's internal, external. I really think it all starts with making a difference in your community and your backyard. It’s that ripple effect. I think it just expands from there, so I just really hope that HappyActs can help bring the world together. We need it now more than ever it feels like. [00:21:26] PF: We do. Very well said. Again, we want everyone to check out the website, livehappy.com, because we have all kinds of resources there that they can download. They can learn about HappyActs. They can listen to other podcasts. There are so many things that they can do. We just look forward to seeing them online. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:21:47] PF: That was Laura Coppedge and Casey Johnson, talking about HappyActs and the International Day of Happiness. If you'd like to visit our digital wall or download your own HappyActs calendar, visit us at livehappy.com and click on HappyActs. If you want to learn more about Will Thomas and Good News Magazine, you can also find that at livehappy.com when you click on our podcast tab. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Move From Surviving to Thriving With Brandi Sellerz-Jackson [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 459 of Live Happy Now. If you feel like you're merely surviving instead of thriving, this week's episode could be just what the doctor or the doula ordered. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and today I'm talking with Brandi Sellerz-Jackson, a life doula and author of the book, On Thriving: Harnessing Joy Through Life's Greatest Labors. Brandi learned to thrive despite her own traumatic past, and now she walks others down the path of healing and self-nurturing to help them find true joy in life. In this episode, Brandi sits down with me to explain why it's so important for us to learn to practice self-care, and she offers tips that will improve both our physical and our mental health. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:48] PF: Brandi, thank you for coming on Live Happy Now. [0:00:51] BSJ: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. [0:00:55] PF: You are, unlike any guests that we've had. You are a life doula now. So, to set this up, explain to us what that is. [0:01:03] BSJ: So, I started my work initially in birth and birth, in postpartum doula work, which means, I was there to support families as they give birth. But during 2020, something happened. It was this little small little global pandemic thing that happened. [0:01:19] PF: Yes. There was a hiccup that happened. [0:01:21] BSJ: Yes. It was a little small hiccup. No big deal. No big deal. That happened and shook our world of course. So, long story short, what ended up happening is, I had a conversation with a friend many years ago, a dear friend named Aishat HaSati who's a healer, who I talked about in the book. She was saying how, “Man wouldn't be great if we had some doula through life?” And we're like, “Yes, like a life doula.” We kind of just were joking. But basically, what happened is I ended up finding myself in that work, and I was like, “Oh, that's what a life doula is. It's someone who supports you through various transitions and various moments of rediscovery in your life. So, yes. [0:02:04] PF: With this book, first of all, I feel like you have a lot of books in you. I wondered why On Thriving was the one that you wanted to do first? [0:02:15] BSJ: Oh, my goodness. I wanted to write the book that I needed. [0:02:19] PF: I love that. [0:02:21] BSJ: Yes. I wanted to write the book that I needed. In the book, I share various experiences that I've had. Very hard, hard, hard, hard experiences that I've had. And I really wish there was something that I could tangibly go to, almost like a guide, and how to navigate those really hard moments. I didn't want to read something that just tells me to go take a bubble bath, or go drink some water, just go and like – [0:02:57] PF: Breathe. Just breathe, Brandi. [0:02:58] BSJ: Just breathe through it. It’s things that are very vague, or opaque, or very just okay. I wanted something that would hold the hand of the reader, so whatever part of their journey that they're in, they didn't feel alone in it. Because I feel like that's a huge part of the journey is that feeling of aloneness during – [0:03:21] PF: What you do remarkably well is you share your own experiences, very honestly, very heartfelt. But you don't overpower the reader with those experiences. You still manage to make it about the reader, which is really a gift with your writing. Because a lot of times, the things that you've shared would come off more just like a memoir, and you managed to sidestep that and turn it into just, really, a teaching guidebook and saying, “I've shared this with you. You can do this too.” It's really like sitting down with someone who's saying, “Come on, I'm going to give you a little bit. You give me a little bit. Let's go do this together.” I have to commend you for that. It's just remarkably well done. [0:04:05] BSJ: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. That was the goal. I really wanted that. I didn't want it to be a thing of people reading it and it feels like, I'm just unloading. Let me tell you about my life. [0:04:21] PF: Sometimes too, in a book like that, people can end up feeling, “Well, gosh, I haven't been through anything nearly as bad.” And you're very careful to avoid even – you have a lot of horrific experiences to drop on, but you never make the reader feel like you're playing on top of that. Whoa, it's beautiful. [0:04:39] BSJ: Because we all have our hard. We all have our version of it. [0:04:42] PF: Right. Now, in the book, you talk about the four labors of our lives. So, tell us what those four labors are. [0:04:52] BSJ: Yes. The first one is the labors of relationships. Our relationship with our self and others. I'll say this too, before I name them. I really tried to think of four things that we are all going to go through. I don't care how much money you have. I don't care your nationality, ethnicity, your color, your sexuality. Everyone's going to be touched by this. Everyone's going to be touched by these four laborers. So, the first one is relationship. Figuring out our relationship with ourselves and others and the humans within this world. Mental health, how do we hone in on our healing? Many of us have experienced a pretty traumatic past few years. And then you pair that with our own personal stuff. It's a lot. So, how do we cultivate our mental health and thrive during those hard moments? Grief. They say death is the great uniter. No one escapes it. None of us get out of it and none of us are not touched by it. I really wanted to share what that looks like, grief. Not even just grief, as in like the death of a person, like the physical death, but even just the death of a relationship. The death of a career, the end. More so, the end of things. How do we thrive when it is the end of things and begin to reframe our ideas from it being purely just the end, as opposed to also the beginning? Then lastly, thriving well-being othered. We all get a seat at the table. I don't care where you come from. We all get a seat where we look around, and we realize we are the only in that moment. How do we thrive and not shrink and feel like, “Oh, my gosh, I don't belong here.” How do we thrive in those moments? So, I really wanted to find four things where we, just being human, this is what's going to happen, it's going to happen. [0:06:46] PF: Yes. You do that really well. You walk us through that. That's another thing that's great about this book is someone can jump in. You don't have to sit down and I've got to start on page one and I've got to go through. You do build on stories from previous chapters, but you could jump in like say, it's grief. Say, grief is the thing that's frontmost. You can go and just start there and pick up and get that same help. [0:07:10] BSJ: Yes. I totally agree. I wanted that. I really wanted each section to offer the reach or something where it's like, “Oh, this part is for me. I need to start here.” [0:07:21] PF: Yes. You do acknowledge that all these labors just like birth, they have incredible pain, but they also have incredible reward. The key is staying present during this. Talk about how you teach us to stay present, during the pain, during this very difficult time, so that you can truly experience it and gain the best reward out of it. [0:07:46] BSJ: Yes. One of the things I say is, “Breathe.” I do connect it to our breath a lot of times, because it's the first thing that we hold when things are like – we hold our breath. But also, too, I try to walk the reader through practical steps. So, one, reminding you, yourself, of where you are, that although this may feel like it, whatever it is, is happening again, this is totally different and is more than likely is different. So, how do we stay present when we're triggered? How do we stay present when it's a hard moment? So, reminding ourselves of where we are. Another thing is reminding ourselves of our agency. That is the first thing that I write that goes when we have experienced trauma is our sense of agency. A lot of times when hard moments, difficult moments, stressful moments come up, it's the very thing that I feel like goes out the window again. It's like, “Freeze.” It's like that flight, fight, or freeze. You freeze because you're like, “Wait, I don't know what to do.” You go back to that seven-year-old, eight-year-old, nine-year-old child that's like frozen in that moment. So, reminding yourself that you have agency, you have a say. You may not like all the choices. You may not like all the options. But you do have a say in how you choose to move forward and grabbing back that sense of agency is, is one of the most powerful tools that we have. Another thing that's very practical. I say, hold your own hand. I do this exercise where I literally close my eyes and when I feel a little girl Brandi feeling triggered, feeling a lot, feeling the residue of what I've experienced, I hold my own hand, and I envision myself holding little girl Brandi’s hand and saying, “Okay, let's do this together. We're okay. Everything's okay. And if it's not, it's going to be okay.” So, those are things. I try to really be practical, because I really, really, really hate, I hate all the catchphrases that are out there nowadays with self-care, self-care, self-care, boundaries, blah, blah, blah, and none of us really know what that means when it comes into practice. So, I really wanted to write a book that showed us how to practice these things. [0:09:59] PF: You do that quite well. I think it's wonderful that someone can read this. They can take these tools and learn them when they don't need them. Because that's really when you want to refine this. Not when you’re in crisis and go, “Oh, crap. What did Brandi say I'm supposed to do?” [0:10:15] BSJ: “Well, I forgot.” [0:10:17] PF: “If I got to keep this up.” But yes, that's what's so wonderful, it really gives you tools and practices that you can just use daily and build on and make part of your being. So, when that crisis does hit, when that labor is there, you can walk through it. [0:10:32] BSJ: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Listen, these are all things that I've had to learn and implement. I'm not exempt. There are moments where I am just like, I feel the most, and I'm like, “Okay, what did I say? What did I write?” Go back to that. [0:10:53] PF: Yes. It's a journey. We're all learning. Of course, you're talking about thriving, and that is a word we hear a lot, and I think it probably means different things to different people. So, explain where you're coming from? What does thriving look like, feel like to you? [0:11:12] BSJ: Yes. I agree. I think it looks different for everyone. One of the things I do say, I say define what thriving means to you, because what I think is thriving, could be totally different. It can be different on any given day too. For me, today, thriving looked like getting all three of my kids out the door, wrestling with a five-year-old, who was determined on probably not wearing shoes. Then, I finally talked him into wearing shoes, because it's rainy here. That's thriving. It worked. Whatever happened, it worked. Every day is different. So, thriving, though, I think in a nutshell, I would say, it's showing up as is, being open to unlearning and learning, and not being this destination. This sad destination, but more so this ongoing work that you're doing. It's ongoing. It's ongoing. And being very keen to what it is that you need. So, what is it that I need in this moment to thrive? Not just survive. It's a response. I think of thriving as a response, as opposed to a reaction. It's a pause. It's an exhale. It's a deep breath. That's what it is, as opposed to this clenching. [MESSAGE] [0:12:39] PF: Today, we're talking about how to thrive and it's no secret that pausing to take a breath can change your state. But if you're spending a lot of time indoors, chances are you're breathing in things like allergens, pollen, pet dander, and more. In fact, you might be surprised to learn that indoor air is up to five times more polluted than outdoor air. That's why I'm obsessed with my new air purifier from AirDoctor. It filters out 99.99% of harmful contaminants, so your lungs don't have to. Talk about a breath of fresh air. No matter the size of your space, AirDoctor has a purifier that's right for you, and you can breathe easy with its 30-day money-back guarantee. So, if you want to clear the air in your home or office space, check out AirDoctor at airdoctorpro.com. If you use the promo code, Live Happy, you'll get up to $300 off and get a free three-year warranty. That's airdoctorpro.com and use the promo code Live Happy. Now, let's hear more about what Brandi Sellerz-Jackson has to say about thriving. [INTERVIEW CONTINUES] [0:13:45] PF: You work with a lot of different people and have talked with a lot of different people. So, you've seen their struggles in their obstacles. Are there some common obstacles that you see to thriving? Are there things that we're just putting in our own path, or just can't get past that you see over and over with people? [0:14:04] BSJ: Yeah, I would say I don't think a lot of people believe that we're worthy of thriving. I think when you've been in a rut of survival, that's what you're used to. So, I think the first step is knowing that you're worthy of thriving. I opened in the book about taking psychedelics and doing psychedelic therapy, and I did it because I want it to live my life. I want it to cease looking at it as if I am this house sitter, just collecting packages for the actual person that lives here. Right? I wanted to actually live my life like I actually live here, like it's mine. So, I think a lot of people, when you've experienced trauma, after trauma, after trauma or just even small traumas, small t, big T trauma, whatever. I think that knowing that you are worthy of thriving is the very first step. It’s the first thing that you have to really just grab a hold of. [0:15:12] PF: If you're in survival mode, you're not even thinking thriving. So, how do you get someone, first of all, to recognize that they are in survival mode? And then to realize that there's a something called thriving? And then to get them to take that step out of survival into thriving? Because it's a short journey in some ways, but it's a huge step. [0:15:35] BSJ: It is a huge step. I think the way to get them to do that, I don't think anyone can do it for you. That's the hard part. There's no switch, I think, again, it's daily. Daily telling yourself, “I'm worthy of this life. I'm worthy of thriving.” If you're in a hard moment, this too shall pass. It's going to pass. I'm worthy of thriving.” It is that knowing. Now, I'm going to be honest, I don't think it's one of those things that you know immediately. I don't think it’s just like, “Oh, yes, I'm worthy of thought.” It's not, “Looks like, and go.” It takes time. If you've had years of trauma, it takes time. I mean, and that's just not like a sweet thing to say, because it's nice. But really, our brains, trauma changes the brain. [0:16:32] PF: Exactly. [0:16:34] BSJ: So, to work with that neuroplasticity of it, and to get into habits of changing it, and unlearning, it's going to take time. So, I think the biggest thing would be, give yourself grace, give yourself time. This is not an overnight work. This is a daily work. [0:16:58] PF: As you said before, it's a journey. It’s not a destination. You're not going to get to this ticket station. You get your passport stamped and – [0:17:05] BSJ: No. I wish it were that way. That would be great. [0:17:07] PF: Wouldn't it? [0:17:08] BSJ: It’d be so wonderful if we just decided something and it's like, “And boom.” That's not the way it works. It's not the way life works, unfortunately. [0:17:17] PF: It's not. What if we know someone who is stuck in survival mode, and they're doing the best they can, and they can't see their way out of that, and they can't see into how they could ever thrive. How do we gently nudge them? Because as you said, they have to do it. But what are some of the prompts that we can offer as friends, as family, to help them realize you don't have to stay here? [0:17:42] BSJ: Yes. I would really validate their worthiness. Every time I get a chance, you're worthy of it, you're worthy of thriving. I would also too – I mean, I love therapy. I think therapy is great. If they're into therapy, if you're someone that they trust, I think that's something good to kind of recommend, and not like a thing of, “You need a therapist.” But more so like, “Hey, if they see you even doing that work, I think that's another thing.” I think, example, example, thriving by example, I think that is the biggest thing you can show for friends and family. Because I think people remember what they see, and the work that we're doing versus of what we're saying. [0:18:32] PF: Absolutely. [0:18:34] BSJ: Right. If they see you, because I have friends that have seen me in hard moments, and they've seen me in moments where I was like, “Oh, I don’t know.” They see me doing this work. They've seen me do this work consistently, and I think my example of doing the work, doing the hard things is bigger than anything I can ever say out of my mouth. Actually, even anything I could write out in a book, because they're seeing me in real life. [0:19:05] PF: Absolutely. [0:19:07] BSJ: So, I think that would be the biggest thing is, think about your life. If you see a friend that's struggling, think about your life and how you're showing up for your life and what you're modeling to. Because people are watching. And if you really want them to get the support they need, then make sure you got the support you need. Because they'll notice it, they'll see it. [0:19:28] PF: Yes. That is tremendous advice. I love that. One approach that I really like is where you talk about taking care of yourself like a house plant. I have to admit, I once killed an air fern. So, I'm not sure if that is going to apply directly to me. But I love this. Explain what you mean by that and how we take care of ourselves like a house plant, because this is so relatable. I absolutely love this. [0:19:53] BSJ: Yes. I mean, well, it's the same thing. We're not that much different than plants. We have more complicated feelings. That's basically it. But water, they need water, they need nurturing, they even did a study where if you talk to your plants and watch how they grow, I don't think we're any different. We're not different. So, I think of it, for me, the biggest lesson was how I was pruning my plants and all this stuff started growing. Watering plants, things start growing. Paying attention to them, giving them the right soil, fertilizer, all that. It's the same thing with us. We're not this thing where it's like, “We don't need anything.” Every living thing needs something. We need things to keep us living and thriving. [0:20:39] PF: You explained it really well, in the book, too. I really enjoyed that part of it. You probably don't know that one of the things we talked about all the time, here at Live Happy Now, is gratitude. You talk a lot about how gratitude has a role in our happiness. But also, kindness can have the same effect. So, for everyone who's tired of hearing me talk about gratitude, let's switch it over to kindness. Talk about what that does for our physical and mental well-being when we start practicing kindness and live with kindness. [0:21:09] BSJ: It's everything. I mean, there are studies that show that people who practice kindness, it affects our health in positive ways. It affects the way we live, in some studies, how long we live. I mean, it's literally everything. I write about how even just going kindness watching. You've heard of people watching, but kindness watching. It will inspire you in so many ways and inspire your own demonstration of kindness. [0:21:36] PF: Tell us more about that. Tell us about kindness watching. That's so cool. [0:21:38] BSJ: Yes. I write how, one time I saw this farmer at the farmer’s market, he just gave these boys some honey sticks, and it just made me feel all the things. I was just was like, “How lucky am I that I got to witness this moment of kindness?” Everything that's happening in the world in this moment, and in the past, and everything that will happen in the future. I get to witness this one moment of kindness. It made me emotional and it made me grateful for my life. So, it's basically where you just you actively seek out moments where you are arrested by kindness, and you watch it and you witness it. You're like, now think about how that feels for you. Because it will inspire you. I mean, it did for me. It just made me be – it made my day. I mean, it’s sticks. You would have thought that this man gave them a million dollars. It was like, “No, it was just some honey sticks”, that probably had a plethora of. But it was like, “Oh, my gosh. That's so kind.” [0:22:41] PF: That's very cool. Did you have to originally remind yourself to do this and then it becomes a practice? Or how do you start doing this kindness watching? [0:22:51] BSJ: In that moment, it just hit me. The weight, the endorphins that it gave me. I was like, “Oh, this feeling is just” – it's like, looking at a cute baby. It’s watching Elf for the 20th time during the holidays. It's one of those feelings. It's grandma's favorite soup. It's all of those things that make you feel so warm. So, for me, I try my best to actually do it and just be aware of it. When I see it, I hold on to it, I don't let it go, and I just let it does wash over me and feel all the good things about it. [0:23:31] PF: That's terrific. So, I know we have to let you go. But before we do, you have three tips for cultivating joy that I wish you would share with our audience. [0:23:44] BSJ: Oh, my goodness. I'm trying to remember, but I feel like, well, one I would say, definitely go kindness watching. That's the first thing. That, right there, will just feel your joy cup in so many ways and it will make you feel so happy. You'll feel so happy. Another thing is make sure that you're watering yourself. Put the water in, make sure you're watering yourself, and yes, drink water. Sure. Yes. You should drink water. But make sure you're watering yourself, the people that are around you that they water you and they don't deplete you. They water you. Make sure that you are watering you. So, that means if you need to take a nap, go take a nap, please go take a nap. No one has gotten anything by working themselves to the bone that more tired. I would say lastly, know that you're worthy of joy. I say, know that you're worthy of thriving, but know that you're worthy of joy. I know that when it's hard moment some of us can feel like it's sacrilegious to feel joy in those hard moments, but that's the thing that is the wind in your sails. That's the thing that carry you and keep you breathing, is enjoying those joyful moments in the hard moments. [0:25:02] PF: I love it. Thank you so much. Brandi, thank you for coming on the show. We're going to tell the listeners where they can find you, where they can find your book, where they can discover more about you. You give us so much to think about and I appreciate you sharing it with us today. [0:25:15] BSJ: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:25:22] PF: That was Brandi Sellerz-Jackson talking about how to move from surviving to thriving. If you'd like to learn more about Brandi, read her book, follow her on social media, or read her blog. Visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every Tuesday, we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Celebrate International Women’s Day With Amber Olson Rourke [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 458 of Live Happy Now. During March, we're not only celebrating our happiness month, but it's also Women's History Month, and March 8th is International Women's Day. That means it's a perfect time to talk about how women can help empower and support one another. I'm your host Paula Felps. Today, I'm talking with Amber Olson Rourke, an award-winning marketing executive, mom, and Co-Founder of the direct sales company, Neora. Amber, who is also co-host of the Built to Win Podcast, is passionate about empowering women to step into their full potential and reach for more than they think is possible. Today, she's here to talk about how we can look for opportunities to support one another and how that can change the world. Let’s have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:50] PF: Amber, welcome to Live Happy Now. I'm so happy that you're able to join us. [00:00:54] AOR: I am so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. [00:00:58] PF: Well, this is the perfect time to talk to you. It is Women's History Month. We've got International Women's Day in just a couple of days. What the listeners may not know is I do some work with you on your Built to Win Podcast. What shines through so much on that is your passion for supporting and empowering other women. This is the perfect time to get you on the show and talking about that. I wanted to find out, first of all, how you discovered that calling. [00:01:25] AOR: That's a great question. I think when you're trying to really fine-tune what it is that you feel called to do, I think that the experiences give you clues if you're really listening and paying attention to them. For me, it started all the way being on the receiving end of those situations. With growing up, my mom has always really liked going to women's workshops and whether they were women conferences or workshops. I would attend with her. Even though the majority of the people would be adults, I would be there kind of listening and in the experience. I just always felt very fulfilled. My cup was filled through those experiences. Then as I started getting older, I started being asked to be on the presenting side and helping teens with self-confidence, self-image issues, mentorship programs, even through Big Brothers Big Sisters. I did that right out of college and became a big to a little girl. At first, it wasn't really in my career. It was more just things in the community and things that I was doing. Then I just really found that when I was in a situation where I could be able to pour into another person, specifically another woman, I really felt so just full of excitement and light and that kind of those nudges led me to a path where that's a big part of my career now. [00:02:48] PF: It's interesting because you've been very successful in your business. You've built a business. A lot of times, when someone does that, you get away from your roots. You get away from being able to do that. Your time is so compressed. You're also a mother to three girls, and you got a lot going on. So what is it that's so important that makes you keep that as a pillar of what you do and who you are? [00:03:16] AOR: I think it's just, for me, it's where I feel like I can make the most impact and the thing that I am able to give as my gift. I really try to focus on delegating the other things that other people can help me do because you can't do it all. Everyone has a great support system around them, whether that's at home or at work or that you can build. People generally I found are always willing to help, but I think a lot of people kind of get in their own way of the pride of not asking for the help of like, “I can't be everywhere. I can't do everything.” I try and focus my time on where I'm going to make the most amount of impact. For me, this is a part of it is pouring into and developing other leaders, other women that can then go on and do bigger and better things. [00:04:06] PF: I love that because you found a way to work it into your business world and make it part of your business initiative. Can you kind of talk about that, like how that personal development is such a powerful component when you bring it into the workplace? [00:04:19] AOR: Yes. I think that for us, it has been one of our “secrets” to our success is really our investment in the people that we work with. That's our competitive advantage, both in our home office, which we have over 100 employees. Then we have over tens of thousands of independent contractors that are basically like micro entrepreneurs. Anytime you're doing something like entrepreneurial, something out on your own, you're going to go through an entire journey of ups and downs and self-discovery and everything in between. To be able to navigate that, you have to invest in yourself because that is going to be the common factor, right? That's going to be there in different economic times, all different kinds of things that are going to happen. The one thing that remains constant is that you are always going to be there. So if you don't develop yourself, it doesn't really matter what's happening externally. You can never really get past yourself. You're kind of your own limiting ceiling, if you will. We really believe if you can help people lift the lid of what they're capable of doing and what they believe they're capable of doing, you can get a lot accomplished. That's really why we make such an investment in our people in personal development and bringing that kind of information to everyone that we work with. [00:05:41] PF: How do you see women change when they're learning these principles and they are getting support? It’s not just that you support them. It's the other women on their teams, the other women around them. It becomes an entire culture of people supporting one another. How does that change their lives? [00:05:57] AOR: It's really powerful because I think women specifically, like I mentioned, I think have a harder time asking for help and working on those things that they might. They don't just know automatically. For people to be able to start gaining confidence in areas that they maybe have never tried learning that skill set and then seeing that they can do it and seeing that they can do much bigger things than they ever thought possible, it acts as kind of like – I think of it as like a candle. You light your flame, and then you're able to pass that candle on and light someone else's flame. For some people, I think women, especially, they can feel like selfish almost. I'm trying to become the best me, and that somehow feels selfish. If I become the best me, that doesn't mean I'm taking away from being a mother, being a wife, working. It actually makes me be able to show up more fully to all of those rules. It's not a selfish endeavor. I view it as completely the opposite. You're able to be more selfless. You're able to give more of yourself when you're pouring into yourself, right? We all heard that you can't pour from an empty cup, and I believe that's really true emotionally for women. When you see somebody put in the time, put in the effort, put in the work to light their own flame, so to speak, and now they're kind of burning brightly, it almost gives permission to everyone else around them that they can do the same. That it's okay to burn bright. That it's okay to take up space in the room. That it's okay to be incredibly gifted and proud of that. I think that that is something that women struggle with more is burning bright, taking up that space in the room, and being unapologetic about it. Not in an egotistical way but like I'm here to serve and give and help others do the same thing. Once you see that happen, you start seeing the ripple effect of the women around them start fully kind of taking their own light and making it brighter. [00:07:51] PF: You're correct that that is such a hard lesson for women to learn, whether it's the culture that has told us that, our parents that have told us that. There's just so many messages that I need to take care of everyone else first and not myself. How much work does it take within your company to really get people to understand and make that mind shift to embrace the idea of I'm going to support myself, I'm going to rise up, and I am going to burn brightly? [00:08:20] AOR: Personal development, personal growth, it's a never-ending journey. I don't think you arrive at this destination where you're like, “I –” [00:08:26] PF: It’s not like a board game where it’s like, “Yay.” [00:08:28] AOR: Yes. I've learned it all. I've won the game. I think it just evolves because what's interesting is that I see as you develop skill sets, it allows you to get to this next level where you're taking on bigger challenges. Then you get to this next level. That presents different challenges than the ones that you just solved for. As you rise up, you're just solving different more challenging problems, which is great because you can continue to learn. I think my experience, once people see the fruits of their labor, so to speak, in terms of they did the work, and they're showing up more confidently, and they see how that does positively impact their family and does positively impact the people around them, it starts gaining momentum into something that they don't want to stop. They're seeing how it can absolutely allow you to be a better friend, mother, employee, whatever it is that you want to become better at. [00:09:27]   FT: How do you think that helps when they're weathering things like the pandemic? We’ve got a lot of divisiveness going on in the world today. [00:09:34] AOR: A lot. [00:09:35] PF: A lot of turmoil. What difference do you see in how they handle that when there is this sense of unity and this sense of support? [00:09:44] AOR: That's a great question. I think when you come from a mindset that is based in the impact that you want to make, and it isn't fear-based because I believe that a lot of what we have lived through the last three years is all fear-based kind of environment of what possibly could go wrong and what – people get stuck in that, and then it becomes really hard to get unstuck out of that. When you can approach things not just with like a Pollyanna everything is fine outlook because there is and was significant challenges in today's environment, but you can view it from the lens of I see that, I understand those challenges, and what is the impact that I personally want to make, and what is one step that I can take towards that impact. I think people get overwhelmed by I personally can't solve all of these issues. Yes, no one can. But you can show up in a way where you're taking a step, and you're taking steps that are going to make a positive impact in the direction that you would want things to go. That's true in a microcosm of your marriage, your job. It's also true at a macrocosm of your city, your state, your country. It matters. It matters how we choose to show up and how we choose to view those situations. I do think being surrounded by like-minded people who see it that same way and are committed to making their positive contributions really helps you have a bigger kind of sense of hope and fortitude in humanity than you would see on the news. [00:11:23] PF: Absolutely. You talked, too, about having daughters. You got three little girls. What I love is they're being brought up believing this way. So many of us have a disadvantage because we become adults, and then we start figuring this out. When you're raising daughters to support one another, to believe in themselves, and to believe in their ability and the ability of the other women around them, how does that change what our future looks like if they can grow up believing that and knowing that? [00:11:56] AOR: I think it is so powerful, and I think everyone one has that ability to put their children in those circumstances. Or even if they're not physically there, there are so many powerful women today that are CEOs that are doing really important work in medical field and scientific field, all of these different things. You can just look up those stories and tell them to your kids because kids can only imagine to the degree of which what we show them. That doesn't necessarily have to be what you're specifically doing, but it's about creating that environment that teaches them that they can be anything that they want to be. I see it, for sure, in my girls. One of my repeating message to them is we can do hard things. When they tell me of a challenge, my response is to say, “I hear that. I appreciate that. That does sound hard.” But we can do hard things, and I want them to develop that resiliency. They see me speak from stages. They see me do a lot of things. Now, on their list of what they want to be, it's, “I want to be a CEO in charge. I want to do big things,” which I love. I love that that is in their mindset from a young age, that that's possible. Whether they end up wanting to do that or not doesn't really matter, but I want them to know it's possible for the taking. [00:13:16] PF: Absolutely. I love that. I love that. I do see that with a lot of young children that I know now that are in my circle that they're growing up, and they don't see the limitations because they're being raised by women like you who have already overcome the limitations. To the girls, those obstacles don't even really exist. [00:13:37] AOR: Right. [00:13:38] PF: I love that. [00:13:39] AOR: I think that's so important because I think if you operate as if the obstacles do exist, you can almost create them. You can almost walk into a room or walk into your first job thinking that there are doors that aren't open to you that maybe really are. But you've been taught that they aren't. Just assuming that they are is like half the battle, I believe. [00:14:03] PF: Yes. That's a fantastic way to look at it. One thing that reality TV would tell us, and I've had women tell me this, is women aren't there for each other. If you watch Real Housewives and whatever, you're going to believe that. What do you say about that? When you hear someone say like, “Women, you've got to watch their back because they're competing with you. They’re not your friend,” how do you manage that kind of a situation, and what do you say to that? [00:14:34] AOR: That has not been my experience in my career. Again, I would say that how is that belief serving you? That's always what I think about if it's a belief that I'm holding is like how does that help you to believe that. The irony is if you do believe that, in your gut, your soul, that's your belief, you will find that evidence, right? Kind of almost create that environment for yourself. I will say that in my journey, there's definitely been women who tried to tear me down. But there's been more men that have tried to tear me down. It's just people. There's just those types of people that exist in the world that don't support you. But you get to choose if you keep those people close to you. I assess really quickly if somebody is somebody that is going to not cheer. Cheers louder when you fail than when you succeed. Then they don't get my time and my energy. The community that I have around me now is just filled with women who cheer for each other and support each other and really rocks for each other to help each other grow and win together because there's plenty of light and space for every single one of us. It doesn't have to be a competition. [00:15:52] PF: Right. You've built that environment. For someone who's working in an environment that's not like that, how can they work through competitive environment and try to become more collaborative, try to get support going within their own little network? [00:16:09] AOR: It sounds cheesy, but I think that the change you want to see always starts with you. You can decide to be that kind of woman or supporter, and find somebody that you connect with in the office, and take them to lunch, and talk about how can I help be of support to you. How can I help you in your career goals and share where you're going with them? It can start just with that one relationship that develops, where you're both trying to help each other achieve and help each other grow. In my experience, it kind of grows organically from there. You'll find more of your own people, people that see things the same way as you. It's never going to be everybody because we're dealing with people. There's always going to be people who aren't that way, but you can definitely develop a large enough system of people to help you feel supported. [00:17:02] PF: Absolutely. What are some of the things we can do to support other women? [00:17:06] AOR: I would say verbalizing your support and your kudos. It's like if somebody at your church service stands up and does a great prayer, go and tell them. Speak that truth into them because I think women struggle a lot with confidence that whatever they just did isn't good enough. Just going and saying, “Thank you so much for sharing. You did a great job.” Or you see somebody give great service at a store. Telling them, “You were really made for this. You give such great service. You brought a smile to my face.” Offering that. I think sometimes people view like if they give out compliments, it somehow takes away from themselves. If you shine the light on someone else, it dims your light. I found the opposite. Give it out freely and your light shines even brighter. I think you can do that in just day-to-day interaction. Tell other women when you see them doing a great job. Also, you can do it online because I tell a story about where there was this amazing picture of Carrie Underwood on social media. I never stop and look at comments, but she look fabulous, perfect body, amazing talent. I went to check the comments, and most of them were negative and judgmental about her looks or her talent or what she should wear or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It goes on and on. It’s like I don't even know what these people do with their time, but it's like you can be the opposite voice. You can be like – to someone you just kind of barely even know that you're friends with on social media, and they share something that you think probably might have been scary for them to share. They share a new business venture. They share that they're going to do something out of their comfort zone. Be in their corner. Just verbalizing your support goes way, way further than you would probably think. You might think they don't care what you have to say. Your support, no matter how well you know them or not, absolutely bolsters their confidence. [00:19:07] PF: That is such a fantastic point to bring up because it's something we don't do enough and when you see how people respond to it. For me, that kind of is a dopamine hit, just to see people react. I think people aren't used to getting complimented that much. When you do, even as you said, it can be something small and the way that they light up. It’s like I just handed them money. It’s such a boost. You think about how good you feel when someone notices something you did. It's like, yes, we should all be walking around doing that all day every day. [00:19:42] AOR: Right, yes. Scanning for people that you can encourage just with your words, it's so easy. It's free. It's simple. [00:19:50] PF: Exactly. It changes because you change that person's day, how that's going to change their next interaction. [00:19:56] AOR: Right. The ripple effect is huge. It really is. [00:19:58] PF: Exactly. Exactly. That’s one great way to support. Another thing and I know you are big on this, I don't want to let you go without talking about that, and that's mentorship. Can you really dig into why it's so important for someone who has achieved things, who understands personal development? Why is it so important and almost a responsibility to become then a mentor to others? [00:20:24] AOR: Yes. I think that kind of twofold. I think there's a couple reasons why people – everybody needs a mentor, right? Some of it is just that you can't see the full picture yourself. No human can see kind of 360 degrees. We all have blind spots. We all have things that we bring our own kind of past experiences to. To be able to have someone who can see whatever you're walking through, whatever you're trying to grow through from a third-party lens is really powerful. I've had some of my biggest breakthroughs of what was actually holding me back that I would never have been able to got to by myself because I was kind of already so stuck in whatever I was on, the hamster will in your mind about. Having that mentor relationship, somebody that you trust enables you to get much further than you would go by yourself and remove roadblocks that you might not even know that were there, didn't know how to remove. I think it's also somebody that can help you think bigger and challenge you to think bigger. For those reasons, you kind of turn it back around of why it's so important. It’s that being a mentor to somebody. I think the word maybe sounds a little intimidating like, “I'm not a mentor. I'm not qualified to do that.” But it really just means that you're going to show up for that person, and be in their corner, and support them, and challenge them to think bigger, and to give them kind of the truth and love when you see that of what might be holding them back, and make connections for them, and make introductions for them, and be the first to comment on their posts about their business or whatever it is. You don't have to necessarily be uniquely qualified to do that. Anybody can do that. It's like somebody that's gone the way already that can turn around and help somebody else go that same way. It is really meaningful because when you're trying to do something big, you will get knocked down. I think one of the biggest predictors of if you get back up is if there's somebody there putting their hand out to say, “Come on. Let's go. You got this.” People need that. I think if you're to the point where you're on the right track or on the journey of success that it's a responsibility to turn around and help others do that same thing and help them get back up when they need you. [00:22:50] PF: It also provides you with reinforcement. It reminds you. Doesn't it also – it's like, “Oh, my gosh. I remember being in that state.” It gives you such a state of gratitude of like, “Oh, I remember overcoming that obstacle. I remember what that was like.” I think it does kind of serve just such a great teaching reminder for us when we're doing that, too. [00:23:10] AOR: Absolutely, absolutely. [00:23:12] PF: As we head into International Women's Day, what do you want women to know? How do you want them to approach this and maybe use this as a day to actually observe it and start taking on some sort of a practice to support someone else? [00:23:26] AOR: That’s a great question. I would say, kind of going back to what you're talking about, maybe think of some women in your life that deserve some kudos and some recognition. Give them a shout-out. Send them a message about how they are inspiring you and how they show up in their life. Or give their business a shout-out on your social media about how that they've inspired you with what they're accomplishing and what they're putting out into the world. I think that there's – it's a great day to kind of have that reflection point of the people that you can show up for in that moment and support. Then thinking about are there women that you work with or that are in your community or are in your clubs, churches, whatever that might be? Is there someone that just connects with you that you think about when you think of that that you could reach out to and lend a supporting hand to? Maybe that just drops into your mind a name of like, “Oh. When we were talking through this, that person's name –” I would say that's never an accident when those names pop into our head, that there's a reason that they did. Thinking of even just one person that you could reach out to and say, “I love what you're doing. How can I support you?” At the end of the day, we all rise together. I think it's a great kind of month and day to think of how you can be a part of helping other people rise. [00:24:55] PF: I love it. Amber, thank you so much for coming on the show. We're going to tell everybody how they can check out your podcast, how they can follow you on social media, how they can learn more about you. I really appreciate you sitting down and sharing your insight with us. [00:25:09] AOR: Well, thank you so much for having me on. It's been super fun. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:25:16] PF: That was Amber Olson Rourke, talking about how women can better support one another. If you'd like to learn more about Amber, follow her on social media, or listen to the Built to Win Podcast, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every Tuesday, we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day happy one. [END]