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Transcript – Why Your Brain Needs a Summer Vacation With Dr. Henry Mahncke

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Why Your Brain Needs a Summer Vacation With Dr. Henry Mahncke [INTRODUCTION] [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 475 of Live Happy Now. It’s summertime. If your body feels like it needs a break, guess what. So does your brain. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm joined by Dr. Henry Mahncke, CEO of Posit Science and BrainHQ, who is here to talk about why vacations are so good for your brain. As you're about to find out, when you go on vacation, you're giving your brain all kinds of ways to stay healthy and happy. Henry is here to explain how that works, how to make the most of your vacation, and how to keep those benefits going once you get home. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:41] PF: Dr. Mahncke, thank you so much for coming and being a guest on Live Happy Now. [00:00:46] HM: It’s a pleasure, Paula. It's so nice to meet you. [00:00:48] PF: Oh, I'm really excited to talk to you because this is the perfect time to talk about taking a vacation. As you know, we're in the middle of our summer of fun promotion. We're trying to get people to have more fun this summer. For anyone who's feeling guilty about having too much fun or taking a vacation, you actually have science to back all of this up. Can you tell us what you mean when you say that our brains need a vacation? [00:01:12] HM: Our brains do need a vacation, and a lot of people think that the reason the brain needs a vacation is it’s worked too much, and it needs to rest. There's a little bit of truth to that, but the bigger truth is the brain needs a vacation because brains thrive on change. The reason we have a brain and the reason our brains stay healthy is because our brain can adapt and learn and do new things. A vacation, as much as it is a little bit of a rest for our bodies and our brains, also represents an opportunity to reset ourselves, do something new, provide some interest, some challenge, and as you said, fun. That's incredibly important for brain health. [00:01:49] PF: When you improve that brain health by meeting that need, what does that mean for our physical well-being? [00:01:55] HM: Well, the brain and the body are, of course, intensely connected, right? Sometimes, people think about the brain as it's our spirit and our soul and our mind and everything that makes us us. That is, of course, true. At the same time, the brain is something else, right? It is a wet piece of gooey tissue that sits inside your skull, right? It's a part of your biological body, just the way your heart or your liver and your stomach is. In that sense, in the same way we can think about, hey, what are the things that keep the heart healthy, what are the things that keep the digestive system healthy, we can start to think and understand what are the things to keep the brain healthy. Again, in that biological organ system, what does the brain need to thrive and make itself healthy? We can then, of course, see what those effects are on physical health as well. Let's start with that. What does the brain need to keep itself healthy? Well, most important thing to know about the brain is as much as it all that stuff is true where it's your sense of self and your spirit and your mind, hey, it has a purpose. Sometimes, people ask me, I'm a brain scientist, what's the brain for? Usually, people think, “Well, the brain's for thinking, right? We all like to think. We feel very smart when we think. We solve the Wordle, and we're like, “Oh, I got a great brain,” right? As a biologist, I got to tell you that's not what the brain is for. The brain's not for thinking. Nobody cares if you can think or not. What your brain is for is to help you change to adapt yourself to new situations. The brain is a learning machine. In fact, that's why humans are so amazing, right? We can live and thrive everywhere from the deserts of the Sahara to the ice fields of the far north to the urban jungles of San Francisco. The reason we can do that is because we have this incredible brain that adapts and changes, figures out what we need to do to survive in these different places and let us do that. That's really what the brain is for. The brain is for learning and adapting and change. What that means is what makes the brain healthy is, well, the opportunity to learn and adapt and change on a regular basis. What makes the brain unhealthy is just getting in a rut and doing the same old thing over and over again. If you're in a rut and you're doing the same old thing over and over again, you don't really need a brain. You can be a headless chicken, right? Just go on about the same thing you've always been doing. That's why vacation is such an important issue for brain health. Many of us are leading lives where, hey, we are pretty good at something, and so we go to work and we do it every day. That's great. We earn money, pay the rent, succeed in our careers, but maybe not so healthy for our brains just to be doing the same thing over and over again. That vacation as much as it is an opportunity to reset is an opportunity to build and strengthen brain health as well. [00:04:35] PF: Oh, that's terrific. When we do go on vacation, you talk that we have new challenges that we encounter. Can you talk about that, like the new challenges that our brains present us with when we go on a vacation? [00:04:48] HM: A lot of people go on a vacation to someplace new, right? Even if it's just as simple as a road trip to a town down the road or maybe it's as elaborate as, hey, I got on a cruise ship, and I went to the Caribbean. Going to someplace new, oh, my God, what an exciting, challenging, positive thing for your brain and your brain health. The simplest things are new and interesting and challenging when you're traveling and somewhere new, right? Going out to the store and buying bread represents something new and different. You do that all the time. You can do that an autopilot in your hometown. But you're somewhere else and you got to figure out the store. Maybe you're in a different country. You got to figure out the currency. All that represents learning and change that your brain has to do. Think about navigation, right? Finding your way from one place to the other. Often we're doing that in autopilot in our regular lives. Because we are commutes, we are so worked out. Now, our brain has to look around. We have to notice. What are the visual signals that tell us where we're going? What are the things that are different that we hear or we smell or sometimes we taste as we're moving around the world? All that represents exciting new input to the brain, and that's driving attention systems. It's driving reward systems. It's driving novelty detection systems. All those systems flood our brain with neurochemicals that help promote brain plasticity, brain change, and brain health all at the same time. That kind of just being in a new environment and all of the – I say challenges but I don't want to make it sound like they're bad. Just sort of the excitement of being somewhere new is so healthy. Then, of course, when we're on vacation, often we're going to do something new, too, right? We're not going to work and doing the same old, the same old. Even if it's a pretty relaxing vacation, we're still breaking those habits. Maybe we're reading a book that we haven't read. Maybe we're baking in a way we haven't had a chance to be in the kitchen. Maybe we're interacting with friends and family members we don't get to see. Maybe we're doing something exciting in the outdoors. All of that just flooding the brain with new information and causing it to rewire and adapt itself to that new situation. I'm making it sound like hard work, but the brain loves this. That's what the brain is designed to do. [00:06:51] PF: Right. It gets little badges every time it does something, right? It’s kind of like I can see this gamification of it where it's like, “Oh, I just won my adventure badge,” right? [00:07:01] HM: I think that's a great way to think about it. I think that's a great way to think about vacation. We want it to be restful and relaxing and a change, but that doesn't mean we need to do nothing with our brain. It means we should give our brain something that's exciting and positive that it thrives on. Like you say, a little bit of adventure, a little bit of novelty. Earn those badges, like you say. [00:07:18] PF: What's right for one person is going to be different than what's right for another because as you were talking, I was thinking I've got a very good friend, and he likes to go to the same place every time. He could go anywhere in the world he wants, and it's like he's going to go – he's got three places he goes every year, and he goes to the same restaurant. He does the exact same thing. What drives that, and how could someone who does that mix it up and give their brain a little bit more of what they need? [00:07:46] HM: Well, to sort of take what you're suggesting there and run with it, I do think that what's good for everyone is some novelty, and a little bit of challenge, and a little bit of reward, and a little bit of excitement and attention. I think that's universally good for everyone. In the same way that when you think about your heart health, what's good for everyone is, hey, raising your heartbeat by a certain amount for a certain amount of time, right? That's going to build heart health in every single person on this planet. If you think about heart health again, just to go with that metaphor, the way you do it might be different than the way I do it, right? Maybe you're the kind of person who loves to go for a swim, and I'm the person who likes to ride a bike, right? Hey, those are both valid methods of improving our heart health. One's good for you and one’s good for me. We're both going to benefit. When I think about brain health, I think about it in exactly the same way. All of our brains need some challenge, some novelty some reward in order to stay healthy. But what you find challenging and novel and rewarding might be quite different than what I do, right? Some people might like to go on adventure travel, right? They want to go to a different place every single time. They want to throw themselves into the novelty. They want to have a hard time figuring out where to buy that loaf of bread in a new place. That's just what they thrive on. Other people like your friend, maybe they want to go someplace that's a little more familiar. But it still represents a big change from their everyday life is my bet, right? In that sense, even though maybe they've been there and they've gotten familiar with it, that brain is still getting that sort of sharp change from what I was doing in the office or wherever they might work, and they are someplace new. A lot of people, maybe they have a favorite place they go to. They always go to grandmas for two weeks in the summer. Or maybe they have a cabin they like to rent or something like that. But even in those places, I think it's great for the brain, and I think it's a good way to think about a vacation, to go someplace that's familiar but still change and mix it up a little bit there. Try a new activity you haven't tried before. Go to a new restaurant. Find your way through town in a new and different way, right? I think many of us have memories of when we were kids of visiting our relatives, and not every kid’s memory of visiting their relatives is all that [inaudible 00:09:55]. A lot of kids are kind of bored when they go to visit their relatives. Boredom is actually kind of a sign that maybe this is not so good for your brain because there's nothing exciting or interesting or challenging or different about it, and so mixing it up a little bit in that way. You’re going to a place that you find comfortable and familiar can be a good activity for your brain. [00:10:14] PF: That brings up a great point because as you said, kids can find visiting relatives a little bit boring, so can spouses. What if that is what is planned for your summer vacation, and it's something, yes, you're going to get away but you're just not that excited? Say you're going to, yay, go spend the whole time with the in-laws and all that. How do you take a trip that you're maybe not exuberant about and still turn it into something that's going to be good for you? [00:10:42] HM: Yes, and good for your brain. I think the art of it there is picking some activities that are going to be new and interesting while you're there. I don't think there's many people, whether it's kids or spouses or even family members, that necessarily enjoy just going sitting in a living room for four different days and visiting with people. I'm in a good position to talk about this. I just actually got back myself from a week of vacation. I went to beautiful Lake Anna, which is a wonderful lake in Virginia. I got to visit with my mom and my sister and my two nieces. My wife came along which was really wonderful of hers because we were visiting the in-laws at some level. [00:11:18] PF: I promise she didn't call me. [00:11:20] HM: She might have. I think in that sense of brain stimulating and a brain-healthy activity for everyone because we got to go do there, and we did a whole bunch of new things we hadn't never really done before, right? Got to take a boat out on the lake and drive a boat and things like that that are pretty outside of my normal experience and my wife's normal experience. In that sense from a brain perspective, creating those opportunities for novelty and challenge and excitement and even passion if I may put it that way in terms of doing something new that both going to build brain health. I think also build something that's a remarkable experience for someone who maybe other aspects of the visit are not really quite what the – [BREAK] [00:11:57] PF: We'll be right back. Now, it's time for Casey Johnson, Live Happy Marketing Manager and cat owner, to talk to us about PrettyLitter. Casey, welcome back. [00:12:06] CJ: Thanks. With three cats, PrettyLitter has become an essential part of our cat care routine. I must say I understand why it's called PrettyLitter because the packaging and the crystals are gorgeous. They live up to the name, plus they're super lightweight and last up to a month. That means changing out the litter boxes less often which is always a plus when you have a cat. Even better, they're delivered right to my doorstep and come in a small lightweight bag. Now, I don't have huge containers taking up space in our small condo. [00:12:34] PF: That's awesome, and we're going to give that same opportunity to our listeners. They can go to prettylitter.com/livehappy and use the code Live Happy to save 20% on their first order and get a free cat toy. It's prettylitter.com/livehappy, code Live Happy to save 20% and get that free cat toy. Again, prettylitter.com/livehappy, code Live Happy. A great vacation provides a much-needed reset, but another way to rejuvenate yourself is with a great night's sleep. Even on the hottest of summer nights, cozier sheets can make sure that you're getting everything you need to wake up refreshed and ready to take on the day. Thanks to their cutting-edge temperature-regulating technology, Cozy Earth Bedding lets you stay cool and comfortable, no matter how hot it gets. Here's the best part. Our exclusive offer for listeners gets you a 30% discount and a free item when you use the code Cozy Happy at cozyearth.com/livehappynow. So invest in your sleep health this summer and stay cool backed by Cozy Earth's 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty. Visit cozyearth.com/livehappynow and use the code Cozy Happy to unlock this special offer and optimize your sleep for better health. After you place that order, be sure to select podcast in the survey and then select Live Happy Now in the drop-down menu that follows. Now, let's get back to Dr. Henry Mahncke and hear what he has to say about taking your brain on vacation. [INTERVIEW RESUMED] [00:14:07] PF: Sometimes, when we come back from a vacation, we feel energized. We're ready to dive back into things. Sometimes, when we come back vacation, we actually are like, “Oh, my God. I'm exhausted. I need more vacation.” I think part of that is what we do with our brains on a vacation, right? If you go on a vacation where at the end it's kind of boring, it's a little bit frustrating, you didn't really get to get out of your normal routine. When you bounce back, that exhaustion you feel a little bad as your brain actually telling you something that you should probably listen to. Or on the other hand, if you go on a vacation and I'm not saying you should wear yourself to the point of exhaustion on your vacation, but if you go on your vacation and you've done some novel interesting things and something really peppy, something out of your standards for some of that period of time, that's going to revivify your brain. I think you're going to get back from your vacation with a little bit more pep in your steps as you get back to your everyday life. [00:15:00] PF: Yes. I've had those experiences where we're on a trip and I'm like, “Yes, this is okay.” I'm not thinking like, “Hey, it's not like I'm not having the time of my life, but I'm having a good time.” Then I'm amazed when I get home how much better I feel. My actual recollection of the trip is better than how I felt on the trip. What going on there? [00:15:21] HM: Well, a lot of things, and it's a great point. First of all, I think it's worth calling out that that sense of mood that you talk about, right? That feeling of energy and so forth. I think a lot of people think about that in a very psychological framework, and that's an okay framework to think about it. I've worked with a lot of psychologists, and that's a wonderful way to think. As a neuroscientist, it's important for me to also point out that you feel that way because of literally again how the health of your brain is working as an organ inside of your skull, right? A lot of people might be familiar with the idea that mood is influenced by certain kinds of neurotransmitters or neurochemicals, right? The most commonly prescribed form of an anti-depressant, of course, is an SSRI, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. People are familiar with the idea that there's this chemical called serotonin in their brain that relates to mood in some complex way. People are probably also familiar that there's a neurochemical in their brain called dopamine, right? A lot of people think about it as a pleasure chemical. That's not quite right. Your brain releases dopamine when you've done something that has been successful, and your brain says, “Hey. Whatever that was, rewire yourself to make it more like that.” It turns out that succeeding at things makes our brain feel good, and that's why we feel good when we're succeeded at things. Then certain kinds of drugs can hijack that. My point then is that I think we know that things like serotonin and dopamine and other things like acetylcholine and noradrenaline, they pump in our brain, and they affect our mood and our outlook and our emotional stability and just how bright we feel. What that means is if you can figure out ways to manipulate those neurochemicals, again not by taking drugs but by having real world experiences, hey, you're going to end up as you say with a brain that's going to feel brighter and sharper and peppier and more well-rested and in a good mood and more resilient to be able to kind of take the peaks and valleys of life. How do we pump those kinds of neurochemicals? Well, you pump things like noradrenaline and serotonin as you're having new experiences that challenge your brain, right? You pump that dopamine when you do something on vacation where you have even a vacation goal and you set it and you achieve it for yourself, right? I read a chapter of this book. I took this new route through this town that I was in and so forth. That pumps some dopamine. Those kind of stuff, those changes last for a long, long time in your brain. When you get back to work, your brain does feel brighter. We know this a little bit if I can say because we know from scientific experiments around brain training that we can manipulate these kinds of neurochemicals in the brain, and it can have long lasting effects. For example, in the lab that I worked in for my PhD, a colleague of mine has shown quite beautifully that if you can artificially with electrodes stimulate the brain to release things like acetylcholine and these other neuromodulators, you can actually make the brain learn faster and reorganize itself better. Then in a beautiful study funded by the National Institutes of Health, they showed that people who did a certain kind of brain training where they made their brain faster with computerized brain exercises, they actually showed that that reduced the incidence of depressive symptoms in these adults who did this brain training for years after they finished the brain training. That's because the brain had pumped all of this acetylcholine and dopamine and adrenaline, serotonin as a result of doing this brain training. That left the brain in fundamentally a resilient and more happier state after people had done it. I think a good vacation is like that, right? If you organize it so that you're doing things that are novel and exciting and challenging, you're going to rewire your brain in a helpful way and come back with a better brain to dive back into regular life. [00:18:58] PF: That's amazing. Now, talking about regular life, some people can't afford a vacation this year or don't have the time to go on a vacation. They're going to do what we have now come to know as staycations and – [00:19:09] HM: I've enjoyed many a staycation myself. [00:19:11] PF: Yes. As they're listening to this maybe feeling a little bit wistful like, “Gosh, I wish I could go away and change things,” how do we apply these same principles to a getaway at home? [00:19:23] HM: That's a great question, and I'm a big believer in a staycation. I've done a number of great staycations in my life and two thoughts about it. First of all, I think the art to a good staycation is actually to put aside work. It's all very nice to say I'm going to stay home for three days or two days or one day or a week and not work. But you have to actually not work during that period of time, right? You got to put your out-of-office email on, disconnect from your phone. Otherwise, your brain just gets pulled back into the rut that you're already in. If your brain is pulled back into the rut that you're already in, it's not going to feel like a vacation. It's not going to be very good for brain health. Part one of a staycation is actually do it. Part two of the staycation from a brain health perspective is to take those same kind of concepts about going somewhere else on a vacation and apply them at home. If you are on a staycation, maybe don't go out for lunch at the place you've always gone out to, right? Well, maybe go out once because you haven't had a chance a while. But think of it as a place to explore where you live through the eyes of a stranger, if I may put it that way, right? What would someone do if they were coming to your town, your village, your city, your neighborhood for the first time? Try some restaurants you haven't tried before. Take some walks you haven't tried before. There's probably activities in your town or your neighborhood that you've never done because you've been too busy and make it part of your staycation to say, “Hey, I'm going to be like a visitor here. I'm going to be like a tourist. I'm going to see the sites. I'm going to do the activities. I'm going to do all of that kind of stuff.” At that point, your own town that you may feel like you know backwards and forwards like the back of your hand, well, you're going to be seeing it through new eyes. Of course, that's going to drive those brain-healthy benefits around about increasing your attention and sharpening your sense of reward and just driving all that novelty and new learning into your brain. Again, put aside that work and see your town through those fresh eyes. The most important thing, I think, again for your mental health and your brain health is to get out of that rut. Get out of that sense of, “Hey, I could do this even if I was a headless chicken. I don't need a brain to go about my life.” Make sure your brain gets put to work and discovering what's new and exciting fun about where you live. [00:21:30] PF: Well, that's terrific. I love that advice. If there's anything that National Lampoon taught us, it's that sometimes vacations don't go like you planned. What about those cases? [00:21:40] HM: That’s part of a vacation. [00:21:42] PF: So you have – I'm a planner. I'm like – I can tell you what's exactly going to happen, but it doesn't happen as you plan. How do you do it then? How do you let your brain enjoy this moment when the flight gets canceled or things are just – the hotel's not what it showed up on the website or things like this. When things aren't going like you planned, how do you and your brain make the most of this? [00:22:11] HM: Well, I understand being a planner, for sure. I think it's important to plan a little bit for your vacation. My wife's more of a planner than I am. But in both of our cases, I would say that if you have no plan, it can be you may not get the challenge and interest out of your vacation that you could have, right? I mean, if you go to Paris and have no idea what you're going to do, you might not actually benefit as much as if you make a little bit of thoughts of, "Oh, I've heard the Champs-Élysées is nice, and maybe I should see Notre Dame Cathedral,” right? But that being said, all plans eventually get blown up on vacation. Every single person knows that. You can plan it out to the minute and, like you say, you miss a train, or the restaurant isn't good, or your kids don't really feel like enjoying the museum the way you thought they would. Here, again, I come back to that thought we had at the beginning of this conversation which is the reason that you have the big, fancy, elaborate, complex brain that you do is because as a result, you can adapt and change and see the best in just about anything. I have found in my own life that there's a moment where you have to pause and just release the idea that you were going to do this activity or see this site or go on this particular journey. It always feels bad for just a moment, but I think it's healthy for your brain and healthy for your spirit and certainly helpful for the people you're on vacation with to let that go and realize, “Hey, there's something that's going to be just as interesting, just as exciting, just as fun to do.” That wasn't the thing you were thinking of, but it's going to be right there in front of you while you're on vacation as well. I think it's less around kind of that checklist of did I check everything off my box when I'm on vacation and more realizing that what your brain wants and what your mind wants and, frankly, what your soul and your spirit wants it's just that sense of something different, something new, something exciting, something with a little bit of interest and challenge to it. If you can just take that thought and let it go, hey, this didn't work out, and let's look at the next thing, whether it's going to be going back to the hotel and doing a puzzle or sitting down and reading a book or finding what's right to your right that you've never looked at before as you've been walking down the street. Really looking to find what's exciting and compelling and interesting about that I think can rescue a lot of vacations in that way. [00:24:21] PF: Absolutely. So then when we come back, now this is really common, people come back and they're refreshed. They go to work on Monday. They're like, “Oh, my God. I had the best time.” You go talk to them two hours later and they're back in their work. “Oh, I'm not happy. I'm mad about this.” How do we keep that rejuvenation that we come back with? How do we kind of extend that in our lives and make that last a little bit longer because it not only helps us? It helps our co-workers. [00:24:48] HM: Yes. Well, I think one of the best ways is for some period of time to almost re-engage and replay that vacation with you and someone you went on it with, whether it's a friend or a family member or even just yourself as the case may be. The brain's a time machine, and what I mean by that is we have an unbelievable ability to recreate an experience simply by thinking about this, right? We know this as brain scientists. If you teach a rat to run a maze, you can see what neurons in the rat's brain activate as it runs the maze. Then when that rat is resting or goes to sleep, you can see those same neurons get activated in the same order. We see the rat running the maze, so to speak, just by thinking about it or sleeping about it. That's what the brain does. That's incredible. We can do the same thing, right? We can take that short mental break at work or when we come home from a day, and we can give ourselves permission to replay the best parts of that vacation to ourselves and remind ourselves what the fun or the excitement or the challenge or the interest was. That's got two great aspects to it. First of all, from a brain health perspective, that's great, right? You're reactivating your brain in this really exciting and compelling way. You're bringing back all those pluses to your brain health and to your mind and your spirit as you're doing it. In that sense, you're extending your vacation just a little bit. [00:26:06] PF: I love it and at no extra charge. [00:26:08] HM: And at no extra charge. Sooner or later, you're going to need to go on a new vacation to create some new memories to replay, but that's okay. We should all be doing that. We should all be doing – [00:26:15] PF: That's terrific. You have given us a lot to work with here. I really appreciate you coming on the show and talking about this. [00:26:23] HM: My pleasure. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:26:28] PF: That was Dr. Henry Mahncke, talking about how a vacation can boost your brain. If you'd like to learn more about BrainHQ or follow them on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. You'll also find a link to get a 20% discount on any of BrainHQ’s brain training programs. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Live Happy Now. If you aren't already receiving us every week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think of the show. That's all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Podcast

Why Your Brain Needs a Summer Vacation With Dr. Henry Mahncke

It’s summertime, and if your body feels like it needs a vacation, it’s not alone – so does your brain! This week, join host Paula Felps as she talks with Dr. Henry Mahncke, CEO of Posit Science and Brain HQ, who explains why vacations are so good for your brain. As you’re about to find out, when you go on vacation, you’re giving your brain all kinds of ways to stay healthy and happy. Listen in to learn how that works, how to make the most of your vacation, and how to keep those benefits going once you get home. In this episode, you'll learn: What your brain needs to keep itself healthy. Why vacations are so good for your brain. How to get the same benefits of a vacation when you “staycation.” Get 20% off BrainHQ brain training programs here. Follow BrainHQ on Social Media: X: https://x.com/BrainHQ Follow along with the transcript by clicking here. Are you looking for more ways to give your brain a break this summer? Sign up for the free weekly email series, Live Happy’s Summer of Fun with Mike Rucker, PhD here. Don't Miss a Minute of Happiness! If you’re not subscribed to the weekly Live Happy newsletter, you’re missing out! Sign up to discover new articles and research on happiness, the latest podcast, special offers from sponsors, and even a happy song of the week. Subscribe for free today! Don't miss an episode! Live Happy Now is available at the following places:

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Podcast

Transcript – Happy Activists: Wilson County Kind Makes Kindness Cool

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Happy Activists: Wilson County Kind Makes Kindness Cool [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:01] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 474 of Live Happy Now. We know that kindness is crucial and sometimes these days it seems to be in short supply. But today, we're talking to a couple of happy activists who are creating kindness in a place you might not expect. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and this week I'm joined by Mayor Randall Hutto and Project Administrator Susan Shaw, who are the driving forces behind an initiative in Tennessee called Wilson County Kind. As the name implies, Wilson County Kind promotes kindness, starting with local government. Randall and Susan are here to share how this initiative started, why it's important for governments to embrace kindness, and what effect this has had on their community. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:49] PF: Mayor Hutto, welcome to Live Happy Now. [0:00:52] RH: Thank you for having me. [0:00:53] PF: This is a wonderful thing that we're going to talk about today. It's something, I love the fact that it comes from a government agency. I love the good that you're putting out in the world. So, before I ask you any more questions about it, why don't you tell us, tell our listeners what Wilson County Kind is all about. [0:01:09] RH: Well, thank you for having me on the show. For us, we get lots of conversations, and lots of traffic that comes through our office. Normally, it's an opportunity for us to help people. They have an issue, many people don't walk to the door saying, “Hey, you're doing a great job.” Again, it becomes an opportunity for us to really do a setback and take a chance on how can we help that person that comes in. Normally, we're able to do that. Sometimes we're not able to, but most of the time we are. But we realize that as we began to see people come in and how happy they were leaving, the focus though was always on what's not done right, what's missing, what's not there. It reminds me of a story that I heard about a professor given a test to his college class. He handed a piece of paper out. He told him to leave them all face down. Then he was going to give them a little bit of time to write on that project and write on the test. Then took it back up and began to read what they wrote. Anyway, the test was really a white sheet of paper with a black dot in the middle of it. When they all flipped it over, he said, “Now, write what you see.” Everybody spent time writing. They talked about the dot. It was black and it was in the middle of paper, but nobody focused on the white area that was outside it. That was the point that he was making there that a lot of times when we go through life, what we focus on determines our attitude, maybe how we live. So, that was the piece that we noticed here. Once we solved that problem, those people were happy that were mad when they walked in, and we realized that there were a lot of good going on in the county, but people were just focusing on the bad things. Many times, we saw that, for sure, on Facebook, where they talked maybe about the government. We were trying to figure out how can we get the message out here that this is not really what's happening and tell the story, but many times when we did that, it would just balloon into something that would get out of control, because they would start fussing about something else. We said, what can we do to bring positivity to the people in the county for them to realize all the good things. There are definitely some things we need to get better at, things we need to correct. That's where we started the initiative in Wilson County Kind, and we said, focus on something that's good. When you see a good act, post that on social media. Send a story to the paper on that. Let somebody else know that something good has happened. So, that got the story started. Then I had an episode with a young lady that I met at the Wilson County Fair. She came up to me and we normally made it to fair and ride some rides, but she came up and said, you know what? Her goal was, was that she wanted to do something nice for Wilson County, so she made some bracelets that said Wilson County Kind on it. She gave me a couple at the fair. I wore those for a while. Then I asked her a little bit more about this. I said, “Tell me what you're doing here.” She said, “Well, I'm going to sell these bracelets for whatever anybody wants to give me. Then once they give me the money, I'm going to do something good with that money. I'm not going to pocket it for myself. I'm not doing it for me. I'm doing it for other people.” So, as time went on, what she did with that money was they actually made up some packets. Actually, they've given me several packets so far of things to give out to the homeless people, homeless population. Inside that back during the wintertime, I had a couple of hot hand warmers in there, a gift card, maybe a couple of other things, a bracelet. So, I went out and I just saw somebody on the side of the street that I knew who was homeless. I would hand that out. So, that became hit, but that was just one example of things that happened as we started talking about Wilson County Kind. Susan Shaw have her with me here. She's really the overseer of all this. I'll let her talk in just a minute about that, but there's been many other things, but that was the initial goal was to say, focus on the positive things that are happening here and let's put that out in social media or tell people about any time you catch a kind act. There's more good out there than they are bad, but we don't focus on it, so let's get that out there. So, that's the origination of Wilson County Kind. [0:05:15] PF: Well, when you started thinking about this, like how did it go from you thinking this would be a great thing for us to do for the county to spread this good news to actually becoming a program, because that's a big stretch of highway between those two points? [0:05:31] RH: It definitely was a concept that we had to spend a lot of time on. I'm going to let Susan Shaw speak for just a second, because she really orchestrated all this and made all the mechanics fall together. I'm going to turn it over to her. Susan Shaw. [0:05:44] PF: Okay. [0:05:44] SS: Thank you for asking that. Really, it originated once the mayor, we talked about this and decided that this was something to focus on and emphasize. We decided to have a campaign launch and not just a press release or something to notify people, but a real campaign launch. There was a lot of focus put on that to have activities in that launch. So, we invited everybody that wanted to come to see this and hear about this. We introduced them to Lexi Potter, who does the Kindness Clays by Lexi. Her little bracelets. We had five stations set up that were activity stations that demonstrated kindness. One of our local artists, Kim Greg, she had some blank postcards made up and with images on there that people could color. She brought some coloring materials and people could come up to her table and color it in and write a encouraging message on the back of it. We partnered with our side, Senior Living here, and we've collected all these after they were done and we mailed them to residents at her side. We purposely did several activities that people could engage in and would demonstrate kindness and really get them motivated on it. The neat thing about this with kindness is that once you start putting a spotlight on it and a focus on it, people start to notice it more. Not only does it help the recipient of the kind act, but the person that did it feels better. Then the person that received it tells three other people, and then they might go out and do something or observe something or tell more people about it. It's kind of this leveraging effect that once you start it and it can really continue to spread. [0:07:22] PF: When did it actually launch? [0:07:24] SS: It was September of last year. People asked, “Well, when does it start and when does it end?” [0:07:29] PF: When are you going to stop being kind, Susan? [0:07:33] SS: That was the answer. You don't. We have a start date, but we don't need to have an end date and we, so we keep publicizing when we observe, or see, or people tell us about something that was a kind act, we continue to publicize that. On social media, we encourage people to use #WilsonCountyKind, because that way we can pull it up and we can see what happens. I wanted to tell you one other neat story, because you heard about Lexi and another young man, a sophomore at Mount Juliet High School that reached out when he saw the campaign launch and he said, “I want to do something and I want to help in this kindness campaign.” He had an idea that he noticed that with the athletics in the high school, that they would retire old equipment and sometime he didn't know what happened. It might be thrown out or something. He said, “I would like to collect that and where could it be given?” In the county, there's an initiative to try to start a boys and girls club. He said, “How about if I collect the equipment and if there's a place to store it, I'll collect it. I'll deliver it. Then it can be used for that purpose later.” So, he did that. [0:08:38] PF: That's amazing. I love it, because what this initiative is making people do is like what can I do? They're thinking about it. They're pausing for a moment and saying, “How can I be part of that?” That's really what it takes. Like you said, it causes this chain reaction. We'll be right back with the show, but right now I want to bring in Casey Johnson, Live Happy Marketing Manager and cat owner, who's here to tell us about her favorite new discovery called PrettyLitter. [MESSAGE] [0:09:03] CJ: I love PrettyLitter. It has changed my life truly, but three cats, I feel like I'm constantly trying to mask the smell. I feel like PrettyLitter does just that. It changes the color to help monitor early signs of things like kidney issues and urinary tract infections. Not so fun fact, a few years ago, one of my cats had to have emergency surgery. I truly feel that if I had PrettyLitter at the time, we could have detected the problem sooner and taken proper action. So, I cannot recommend PrettyLitter enough if you were a cat parent. [0:09:35] PF: All right. I know you're going to be telling us more about that in the weeks to come, but our listeners can go to prettylitter.com/livehappy and use the code LiveHappy to save 20% on their first order and get a free cat toy. That's prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LiveHappy to save 20% and get a free cat toy. Again, prettylitter.com/livehappy. code LiveHappy. Now, back to our show. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [0:10:01] PF: I wonder were there any challenges to implementing it? Did you hit any skepticism or people stonewalling against, because a lot of times when you try to do good, people say that's nice, but and then they tell you why it's not going to work. [0:10:14] SS: They Mayor may have a different answer, but I'll tell you what I encountered. It wasn't exactly stonewalling. It was more, well, what does this mean? Because it's very conceptual. It's not a super concrete, but we did give examples, but it was more, well, what does that mean? What is this really? What's the end game? I guess that might be the skepticism is – [0:10:34] PF: Yeah. [0:10:35] SS: Who’s going to produce? We couldn't exactly answer that at the beginning, because how can you say Lexi Potter is going to want to give back and give these care packets. Brady Patterson is going to want to collect sports equipment and give that to a boys or girls club. It's hard to know what people are going to do, but it was pleasantly surprising that so many people stepped up and had ideas. I want to tell you about one other one. We have an SRO. A School Resource Officer. This is something that Wilson County is really proud of, because we've had school resource officers in all of our schools for long before there was so much attention put on it and money put into it from the legislature. One of the school resource officers, they have a program to give out certificates for good deeds. So, they're participating in the Wilson County Kind that when they see a student that does something that is just kind to another person, reaching out a hand, helping somebody doing something, they get a certificate with their name on it and they present it to them. They take a picture. They posted on social media. So, they've been posting it with #WilsonCountyKind, but I didn't even know that they did that. So, that affected me too. It was nice to see that, and learn that. [0:11:55] PF: I love that. So, what are some of the other things that you've done? What are the actions that you've taken as part of Wilson County Kind? [0:12:04] SS: Talking about it is a big thing and that's really the putting a spotlight on it, like I said, you don't know what the end result is going to be, but we talk about it when we go to chamber meetings or meet the mayor. Inevitably, every time we talk about it, we learn about another kind action or deed or something that has happened. I talked about it at the Ambassador meeting of the Lebanon Wilson County Chamber. When I finished talking about it, the chair of that committee said, “Susan, that is so interesting.” He said, “If I think about it, as you're talking, I'm thinking about over the last week and what acts of kindness that I observe.” He said, “I hate to tell you, but I really can't tell you any.” He said, “But I can guarantee you that right now I am hyper alert and I will be looking for it. I am sure I'm going to observe this when I go out.” I thought, that's right there, that's part of the impact and what you see happen. [0:12:59] PF: What I love about that, one thing we talk about a lot at Live Happy Now is gratitude and how having a gratitude practice really changes the way that you look at the world, because if you're going to write down three things every day, you're grateful for, you're training your mind to look for things you're grateful for. That's exactly what you're doing by spreading this message. You're teaching people to start looking for acts of kindness. So, I love that. Now, instead of looking for the bad in the world, they're out there looking for the kindness around them. That's such a powerful gift to the community. [0:13:30] RH: I think it is. I don't think it's taken attraction yet enough to where it's where we want it. We've talked about it. We've got the two citizens that she just talked about, the SRO, but we know there's a lot out there. We've got to find a way to make it a everyday train of thought, not just once in a while or one or two people, because we know just like – network came out of this after the tornadoes where volunteers came together to help all across the county. There's many good things have come together to prove that Wilson County is a kind and generous place to live. There's a lot of that going on, but nobody's telling that story. We are just getting started in my opinion with Wilson County Kind, like I have a sign in my front yard, and I wonder how many people drive by and look at it and say, “I wonder what that means.” That's the goal. We're in the early stages in my mind of people that sinking in, kind of like Wilson County, the place to be. Wilson County Kind will continue to grow. We hope, and take more and more attraction. I think it takes three or four big events to happen that we can talk about that will start spreading a little bit, hopefully, like fire throughout the county, but it has not really in my mind gotten a lot of attraction, like we hope it does here soon. [0:14:45] PF: Part of what's so interesting to me is that, okay, so we know that kindness is very important, but it's not something that you would think of tackling through a government agency. How does that work with your duties as Mayor of Wilson County to behind this movement? How do you work it into part of your duties? [0:15:03] PF: I think it comes under the duties of quality of life. One of the goals here that we have, no question, we have to educate people. We have to incarcerate people. We have to make it safe, but quality of life is one of our major points that we want people to be happy while they're here and enjoy the life that they have here. We don't have to leave the county lines for anything to be honest with you. So, I think that's where it comes in as far as quality of life goes. It's important for our people at least where I sent from to know that there is a lot of, we'll take tourism, for example. There's a lot of great things to do in Wilson County that people don't know about, so we try to spread that word through tourism, but there's a lot of good activities happening. A lot of people doing good for others that we've got to get that word out there. I think it's really going to have to happen, as Susan said, when you ask a while ago the question, but what's the problem? The but is, so how do I really help? What if I'm not good at social media? I don't know how to do a hashtag. I don't know what that means. How can I still take advantage of this? I think that's the piece that is our next step is really getting a word. Here's how you can do it. [0:16:10] PF: I love that. What do you think would happen if other communities started taking this on as a governmental initiative or it's just little pockets of some citizens trying to do this, which is a wonderful thing to do, but what if governments actually got behind that and said, yeah, that's part of, as you said, that's part of our quality of life and we're going to make this about being a kind city and kind community? How would that change things? [0:16:34] RH: I think it definitely does change things. We're working to initiative here becoming an age friendly community, which allows for different things to happen for our older families here, grants to qualify for better services for those people. I think as a government as long as and what we've really tried to do smart here is that we don't use any taxpayer dollars to do this, this is just a way of thinking of life. This is a new culture. I think it'd be great for government, because right now government sometimes has a bad tone to it in our world today, but at the local level, it's not really that. I mean, we're here to provide the services that we just talked to you about, so we want to distance ourselves from any negative tone when you say government that you may feel inside of you. I think it would allow for people to say, “I like my government. I trust my government. I'm glad they're doing this. It's not cost me any money. I get benefits from it, because people are kinder as I walk across and see them walking down the street.” We know that we live in the best part of the country, probably. I think right now is when you wave at people, you don't know, you speak to people, you talk to people, you don't find a stranger. That is in our culture here, not for sure if it exists everywhere else in the country or not, but I know it exists here and we want to continue to expound on it. [0:17:52] PF: If people are hearing this and they're saying, “This is what we need to do, like we need to do something similar.” How do they get started? This might be a Susan question. I'm not sure, because it sounds like she was driving that vehicle quite a bit. How do they go from an idea to implementation? [0:18:07] SS: Well, first of all, you get the support of people like Mayor Hutto. You get the support of somebody in government like that. Also, a support from the school systems, which we had huge support. Annie Barger, she's with the Family Resource Center for Wilson County Schools and Beth Petty in the same role for Lebanon Special School Districts. They got with us and helped plan it. Then we also, because it's not paid for with taxpayer money, we needed a small amount of money to do some promotional things, like yard signs, and stickers for water bottles, and we gave out t-shirts and all those things we gave out free at the campaign lunch. What you do is we found a great partner. We have something called Ten Community here in Wilson County. It's nine or ten banks that group together to be very supportive within the county. They sponsored Wilson County Kind and basically put up some funding this small amount, but for us to be able to buy some things that help with the PR. So, you brand it, you get the support locally of whoever it happens to be, government, school systems, chambers, our Chamber of Commerce were very supportive and the banks are helpful, because ours are very community-oriented banks in the first place. We brand it. You come up with a good name. The logo was created for us by a local visionary design group who is a local marketing firm in Watertown and they did that pro bono. Then you just have to create some spark around it. Now, there's a lot more PR that we can do and we need to do and we'll constantly be thinking and building on that, but that's how we got started. We brainstormed with people to say what our kind acts, what are some activities that people do? Sometimes it's being in the line at Chick-fil-A and saying you're going to pay it for the person behind it. That it starts a lot. That happens a lot of times and people recognize that. Then talk about it, when you see something or hear something, then talk about it. Make it known. [0:20:04] PF: I love it. I love it. What's your dream? You've got it kicked off, you're going, you're picking up momentum. What's your vision? What does success look like for this program? [0:20:14] SS: I think success looks like recognition. It looks like seeing acts of kindness everywhere you go, whether it's in a store, or a school, or at a playground, or something. It's hearing about people reaching out and doing something kind for somebody else. It's hearing more, thank you. It's receiving more thank you notes in the mail. That to me is what it looks like if you're trying to create a vision. It can continue forever, and I hope it does, and I hope it just continues to grow. [0:20:43] PF: I love it. Thank you so much for sitting down and talking with me today. I appreciate both of you. Giving your time and letting us share this with our listeners. We're going to give them all the information they need to know about how to find Wilson County Kind. They can check it out. Maybe get some ideas for doing it themselves, but thank you so much for the good that you're putting out into the world. [0:21:02] SS: Thank you for asking, Paula. We enjoy talking with you about this. [OUTRO] [0:21:10] PF: That was Randall Hutto and Susan Shaw talking about Wilson County Kind. If you'd like to learn more about this initiative or follow them on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. While you're there, you can also sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every week we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info and even a happy song of the week. That's all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Podcast

Transcript – Commit to a Summer of Fun with Mike Rucker, PhD

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Commit to a Summer of Fun with Mike Rucker, PhD [INTRODUCTION] [00:00:01] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 473 of Live Happy Now. Summer officially begins on June 20th and that’s the perfect time to launch Live Happy’s Summer of Fun. I’m your host, Paula Felps, and this week, I’m joined by Mike Rucker, an organizational psychologist, charter member of the International Positive Psychology Association, and author of The Fun Habit: How the Pursuit of Joy and Wonder Can Change Your Life. We’ve teamed up with Mike to offer a free, eight-week email course that will set you on track to have a fun-filled summer, and today, he explains why fun is so important, how to make more room for it in your life, and what to expect when you commit to having a summer of fun. Let’s have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:49.3] PF: Mike, thank you for coming back on Live Happy Now. [0:00:51.5] MR: Oh, my goodness, I love being here, so thanks for having me. [0:00:54.5] PF: Well, you’re so great to talk to you because you’re one of the few people that I know who studies fun, and what a great career pursuit that is, you know? It’s like, I’m going to study fun. So, I wanted to find out, I don’t think I’ve ever asked you this question, like, what made you realize the importance of prioritizing fun? [0:01:16.1] MR: Yeah. So, my story really is being an early part of the International Positive Psychology Association, when that started in 2000, right? Cheek sent me, “Hi, I’m Martin Seligman.” You know, brought all these folks together, was lucky enough to be, you know, one of those early folks, and rightfully, we’re all looking at happiness, right? Because that – at the start, I think, as an ideal, trying to figure out how we can make the world, you know, happier, was a good goal. We ultimately called it thriving because we added elements of subjective well-being, right? You know like academics, we have to make everything [crosstalk 0:01:53.7]. I’m working on this on the academics now with regards to fun and I feel like in the book, The Fun Habit, I made fun fairly easy. You know, we’ll just get real quick to my definition, it’s essentially anything you find pleasurable and then I’ll circle back to your question. But now, because we can bring it down to levels, right? We’re now talking about fun in different context and I find that fascinating because again, you know, academics picking up where I left off now, you know, fun has 30 different subcategories and I think that’s great but you know, because fun in the broad context can, you know, you can start to make it too ambiguous where people are like, “You know, what does that mean for me?” And the good news is, you get to define it and we’ll get into that as we talk but what happened with happiness is that unfortunately, and we kind of have a term for it now. So, and I’m sure you’ve had podcasts about it, the term being toxic positivity, we turn happiness into an ideal. So, instead of valuing happiness, where there’s no problem with that, right? Wanting people to be happy, wanting your family to be happy, wanting to be happy, that’s not problematic. But it’s when we turn folks into being concerned about, “How can I optimize for happiness?” paradoxically, what we did was created some of the most unhappy people and I happen to be one of them, I talk about that a little bit because I was literally looking for correlations and always ruminating on you know, how I could become happier. When that happens, what we now know is you create a gap between where happiness lives because it’s always out there in the future and where your feet are. And so, the short answer to your question is, fun as a construct, is really rooted in mindfully being attentive to the pleasurable things that you do but then, also, understanding that you have the agency and the autonomy to bias your life towards those. [0:03:45.8] PF: So, why is it more helpful to pursue fun that to pursue happiness? You kind of touched on that. [0:03:52.2] MR: Yeah. So, happiness is really this lagging indicator, right? When we are asked, “Are you happy?” It is an act of retrospection, right? We have to think in the rear-view mirror, like, “Am I happy? Hmm, that’s interesting” right? So, we start comparing ourselves to our neighbors, we think about our life circumstance, which can oftentimes be ephemeral, right? We might have won the lottery, so in that moment, we’re really happy, right? But then, we ask you six months from now because some of that money has gone and you’ve kind of fallen off a cliff, right? Where fun is just something we have access to in any moment and so sometimes, it’s referred to as contentment but when you focus away from happiness, right? So that there’s something to be built further, it’s this end goal or there’s something to be achieved and then all of a sudden, happiness will occur. The fun, which can really happen in any moment, so you know, it’s this product of enjoyment and the things that we do. Once we sort of focus on that, then we do pay attention to where our feet are, like, “Wow, I’m not enjoying what I’m doing, let me change, maybe the environment or the people that I’m with or the activity that I’m doing.” We can do that in the moment and the beauty of it is once we start to index these micro-joys in our life that corpus of micro joy starts to remind us that we’re happy. So, happiness is this beautiful byproduct, and we start to become less concerned with being happy because we know that joy is right in front of us by deliberate design that we don’t have to wait around for it to happen. [0:05:30.1] PF: You know, and as kids, we pursue fun, like, that’s just our natural state. We’re looking for fun things to do and we find them and somewhere along the way, we get serious and that wears off. Is it hard for people to learn to seek out fun again? [0:05:48.2] MR: It’s not hard, that’s the beauty. I think once you kind of wake up to it, it’s clear that when you just do a couple of exercises, like the ones that we’re going to do this summer, and you become mindful that, “Wow if I enjoy myself.” I colorfully call this building my fun cup, right? “That the rest of my life is better.” And so, if there are any science nerds listening, I’ll only give a couple quick science lessons. The principle here is the hedonic flexibility principle and as I was creating the book, it was the big lightbulb, right? And so, similar to what we learned about sleep in the 90s, you know, in the 90s, we’re all wearing sleep depravation as a badge of honor, right? Because it’s how you hustle, that’s how you became more productive, right? Like, you know, winners became winners, you know, after the kids went to bed. We now know that’s an asinine assertion, folks that are in a sleep deficit are some of the least productive folks, and we’re now learning the same about leisure. Folks that don’t live a balanced life, that aren’t finding joy or at least, simple pleasures in the things that they do are also falling victim to burnout, and so under that guise, right? Fixing that becomes important and so, once you kind of understand that, once you sprinkle in some of these fun things. And just like sleep, it’s not about, you know, finding whimsy in a hundred and six to eight hours, right? Like, I’m not prescribing 12 hours of sleep. It’s that most of us aren’t having any fun at all and so, we need to figure out how to create that balance by deliberate design, and as I alluded to, it’s really easy. What I found is folks that do it well are the ones that are going to do the exercises we’re going to get into this summer. Just being deliberate, you know? What is it that I, you know, find enjoyable? Reframing what fun means to you. You know, for some folks, they’ll say, “I’m just not a fun person.” And then when I dig deeper, it’s because they believe that what’s marketed to us, right? This high arousal, “I must be at a rock concert with all my friends drinking because that’s you know, what fun is.” Or at least, that’s what Instagram tells me. No, it could be a low arousal activity where the most amazing summer for you is some alone time at the pool, engrossed in a good book that if I ask you in a couple of weeks, you know, “What was it about?” You could tell me in rich detail because that’s how meaningful it was for you and so, figuring out what those things are, and if they’re not in your schedule, being deliberate about scheduling them in, we’re almost halfway there already. [0:08:22.0] PF: Oh, that’s terrific and you know, you and I have been talking about doing this for over a year, we wanted to do a summer of fun. We talked about that and summer is marketed as being so much fun but the reality is, it’s not as lighthearted as we want to think. It’s like, crazy busy, there’s so much pressure, so many things that we have to get done, and it’s compacted into like this three-month period. Why is that a great time to start doing these exercises and make them habits? [0:08:49.5] MR: Yeah, so, I think it’s access would be the biggest one, right? I mean, there is a lot of different reasons but I have this tool called “SAVOR” and it’s essentially just an acronym and so, the “O” in SAVOR stands for “Options.” When we have better options, we tend to have more fun, and the summer just provides so many options, right? I mean, even for small communities like my own, there are things that are available to us for free that we can engage in and discover which you know, and we’re learning how to do that and that becomes a proxy for actually getting it done. You know, we’re kind of in the winter months, and no one’s leaving their homes, it’s so easy to just essentially be in the groove that we’re habituated life and let that time pass us by but the extended daylight that summer provides, the fact that folks tend to have a little bit more autonomy and agency and then again, just access to activities, quite frankly, sometimes, for us, it can be a nostalgia because as you mentioned, as kids, a lot of fun in the summer, and so wanting to get back there, using that as a lure to be like, “You know what? Summers are meant for fun.” All of these can encompass, you know, good tailwinds for getting us started. [0:10:05.8] PF: And you’ve created for us, we’ve partnered with you to do – provide this eight-week email course for free and I absolutely love it. I’m so excited to share it with everybody. Can you kind of talk us through just really, briefly touch on these eight steps and what they’re going to learn along the way? [SPONSOR MESSAGE] [0:10:22.6] PF: We’ll be right back with Mike, but part of having fun this summer, includes, getting better sleep. I’ve become such a big fan of cozier sheets for a lot of reasons, but as the temperatures rise, I found one more reason to make them the only sheet I want to sleep on. Thanks to their cutting-edge temperature-regulating technology, Cozy Earth bedding lets me stay cool and comfortable, even on the hottest nights. That means, I can wake up refreshed and ready for the day, and here’s the best part, our exclusive offer for listeners like you, gets you a 30% discount and a free item, using code “Cozy Happy” at cozyearth.com/livehappynow. I bet you’ll love the unbeatable combination of softness and durability as much as I do. So, invest in your sleep health this summer and stay cool, backed by Cozy Earth’s 109-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty. Visit cozyearth.com/livehappynow today to unlock this special offer and optimize your sleep for better health, and after placing your order, be sure to select, “Podcast” in the survey, and then select, “Live Happy Now” in the drop-down menu that follows, and now, let’s find out Mike Rucker’s eight steps to having a summer of fun. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [0:11:37.3] MR: Yeah, so, the first thing is really just being aware of what you find fun, right? For adults, oftentimes, we do need to reconnect to, “What is it that I want to integrate?” And the issue there is, especially folks that find themselves in that sort of inverse euchre of happiness that so many of us talk about, right? And for folks that aren’t, you know, familiar with that, essentially what we know is that because between, you know, let’s say, 25 and 65, let’s cast a wide net, with some of the [inaudible 0:12:04.5] time for us, right? And we’re not in school anymore so we kind of lost some of the agency and autonomy we had there and so, we need to deliberately integrate some fun into our schedule, and so that’s the first step. Like, “What is it that I want to do?” Because if we allow, you know, FOMO and kind of the rhythms of our family to dictate everything, then oftentimes, we can feel very passive in that. We want to feel active, and then it’s pre-committing to those things. So, really early on in this course, we’re going to pick a few things that we want to do and make sure they happen and that doesn’t necessarily mean that we have to pay for them in advance. We’re going to learn, you know, some simple tactics to just make sure that we’re actually doing the stuff that we want to do this summer, and then the rest of the course is just an ode to things that can kind of amplify our fun. So, are there opportunities in your schedule to at least get out in nature to some degree? Are you connecting with the people that you love? Because, even if you’re an introvert, right? At least, having some prosocial interaction is what we know great and set, latency, enjoyable experiences, and then it’s, how do you invite yourself to the local culture because like I said, summertime is really great because there are all these opportunities to enjoy your township or the county that you live in. And yet oftentimes, if we don’t go looking for it, we don’t know it’s there and then one of the last modules is about kindness because I think kindness really does pair with fun. We’ll get in, for the folks that want it, I’ll send links to the studies but really doing that in a joyful way, like, “How can we play with kindness in a sort of fun way to end this strong?” And then the last module would be, how can we use all of these tools that we learned over the duration of the course to kind of move into fall and continue to benefit from what we’ve learned over the summer? [0:13:58.0] PF: It’s such a great set of action steps and I was curious how you developed this process because it’s very thoughtful, very measured. You know, it’s so easy to do and I’m like, how did you come up with all of this? [0:14:12.9] MR: Well, an ode to one of my collaborators, Haley, who is a diehard introvert and so we would go back and forth because as she was helping me put together – she’s been my blog editor too for like, 10 years and so the kernel of the idea really started with her because she was like, “Okay, you know, you’ve over-emphasized” on sort of higher all activities in certain content that I put out and you know, I am doing this with my friend. And I am doing this with my friend and so I started to pick up on that. I was like, “Wait a sec, are you guys doing this in a systematic way?” And she’s like, “Yeah, we kind of, I’ve pre-commended to this and we made sure you know, that we do X, Y, and Z.” And you know, for folks that are listening, you might know that movie Tag about adults that have kind of committed, you know, enjoying each other’s company every year. And so, as we were putting this together, we realized that folks that either had some sort of program were a lot more successful than folks that did it in an ambiguous way. So, the short answer is this is really just a reboot of the year of fun, which was a program, you know, to stretch it out an entire 12 months but because the summer you know, is so ripe with opportunity for fun and then as you know serendipitously, right? As we were putting this together, the New York Times reached out, you know, because they were like, “Let’s invite our readers to fun.” It was all, I think, the universe saying like, let’s – with November coming up, no matter what your slant is I think we’re all kind of bracing for you know, fall, maybe not being as enjoyable as we would like and so, having this opportunity to you know, make sure that we maximize our enjoyment with both what we want to do but then also sharing that with our loved ones became important. [0:16:02.2] PF: Yeah, I love the way that all came together. [0:16:05.0] MR: Another thing that I think we’re really awakening to is that fun is one of the most useful aspects for engaging in all of these lifestyle changes that we’d talked about for what? The last 50 years? [0:16:16.2] PF: Get up, move around, healthy behavior, yep. [0:16:19.3] MR: But instead, we’ve been talking about want for the last quarter of a century, right? Like, you know we get fixated on the World Health Organization and I am guilty of this too, like I have to get that 115 minutes of exercise and yet, we never stop to ask, “Are the things I’m doing for exercise enjoyable? Am I drawn to them? Do I find them pleasurable?” Now, studies are finding that if we ask that question first, that is actually the most successful moderator with regards to anything that we can do with health interventions. And so, that one is just serendipitous for me, you know, the fact that I have looked at enjoyment for so long and oh, it just happens to be the most useful tool when it comes to you getting people to engage in healthy behaviors. That’s been such a pleasant surprise for me. [0:17:04.2] PF: That’s awesome and so what do you hope that people will get out of doing the summer fun eight-week email course? [0:17:11.2] MR: Well, obviously, I hope they have a lot more fun. [0:17:13.2] PF: Yeah. [0:17:13.9] MR: And like I said, you know, these tactics aren’t going to be earth-shattering and luckily, we’ve made them very bite-sized, right? So, this isn’t going to take much time for people to get through but the nice thing is these simple and not just really can right that ship. If you feel you know, life has gotten a little bit mundane, you know, you feel a little bit stuck, all the you know, adult life is about habituated behavior. You know, we’re going to kind of unroot that and hopefully, sprinkle on some of those micro joys during your summer. So, a few more smiles and a few more hugs, and a few more belly laughs. [0:17:47.4] PF: Something we can all benefit from. [0:17:49.8] MR: Exactly. [0:17:50.7] PF: So, fun is one of those things that doesn’t seem like, A, that anybody would be opposed to it or that there should really be any stumbling blocks to having fun but I am sure there are things that keep people from having fun. What are they, what keeps people from practicing fun? [0:18:06.6] MR: You know, there is so many that it’s going to be different for each person but certainly, we’re time [importer 0:18:14.2] right? So, it really does require a little bit of deliberate design and so we’ll get into that. For some, it is a sense of guilt. A lot of folks and there’s gender slang to this, you know, it is certainly excuse the female but they feel like they find joy in serving, right? It’s called the sandwich generation, right? So, they want to take care of their kids in a very loving way, they have aging parents that they want to make sure they’re okay and they feel like if they take time off the table, and when I say that, I am not just talking about females. Again, it’s just we know that there is a bias towards that data that they tend to be the family caregiver, right? That if they are engaging in some sort of self-care that they can’t fully be in it because they feel guilty because it is taking time away. And what we’ll learn in the course is that that’s anything but, that to be the best version of yourself so that you can be the most productive and have the vigor and vitality to be that good person when you are doing these things, those require just a little bit of time for you to enjoy life because when you don’t, what happens is you ultimately end up getting depleted and even the best of us, right? So, the last chapter in the book, I look at folks that have essentially dedicated their whole lives to serving others with regards to nonprofit and when they’re completely selfless, eventually, they won’t have anything left in the tank to get and so, when you think about it as being the long game, then fun in that sense really does become important and so once you learned that, I think it’s easy to then recalibrate. Like, “Wait a second, this isn’t a guilty pleasure, right?” Which is such a horrible word anyways, this is really something that is going to impact me in a positive way where I can bring that to the folks that I love, and then if you want to get even geekier about it, that’s actually contagious. When you are happy about what you are doing, you tend to set ripples, you know, both at work and at home that will then catch on with the folks around you. And oftentimes, you can create positive upward momentum in really easy ways, you know, just by doing a few things that you have to look forward to and like to go one level deeper, the reason is, is that we know that folks that don’t have something to look forward to even if it is just an hour out of the 168 that you have in a week, if you have like a really tough three or four days and we all have them and there’s nothing in your schedule that you’re like, well, at least, you know, something as simple as, “I might go have ice cream with my best friend.” If you don’t have that to look forward to, then you really lack one of the significant tools of resilience because like you just – then what your brain starts to feel is, “This crappy day is just going to be on repeat” right? But again, just some small form of simple pleasure to kind of root yourself like, “Okay, I’m in it right now but I know that something down the pipe is going to be fun and I’ll get there soon enough” is all it takes. [0:21:21.8] PF: We’re big on that on our house, making sure we have at least one fun thing going on. Like there’s got to be something on that calendar that we’re going to do that we’re really looking forward to and it does make a difference. [0:21:34.7] MR: Yeah. I mean, you already know because you’ve been living it for a while but I think you know, for a lot of busy adults we just forget, right? That we have some of that control. A study that I bring up all the time and I think you had him on the podcast because she has an amazing book herself called the Happier Hour. So, you know, her vacation mindset study, she didn’t do anything but just remind folks that they have agency and autonomy as they go in. And just remind yourself that this is meant to be a reprieve and you know, all of the positive benefits. Essentially, what they found was they saw some of these benefits you would get from an actual vacation just having a vacation mindset going into your weekend and so it’s this small sort of reframes, you know, what I call story editing, that can be really powerful but yet, so accessible to almost all of us. [0:22:24.8] PF: One thing has struck me as I was going through the emails and what you have planned for this course is this would be a great thing to do with an accountability partner because it’s like, you sign up for it and it’s like, this is going to be fun but as you said, we have to commit to that time and it can be easy to let it slip away. So, how do we do that, how will that help if we get somebody to do this course with us? [0:22:48.0] MR: Well, it will help on multiple levels, right? So, one, especially if you want to do some fun things with you know, a good friend, then that social contract is precommitment and so you’re going to get those things done, right? I mean, you started talking about it, it’s much more likely that happen. I would say that that’s the biggest benefit but then also, you can share ideas, right? Oftentimes, brainstorming is really enriched when you can say, you know, and I’ve actually seen this, which to me, it’s a little bit foreign. So, like I love when it works but I don’t quite understand why some people need to do this. A good friend of mine who I don’t think, I’ll just say his first name so I don’t out him but I literally had a conversation with a good friend a week ago who wanted to read, go through the play model because he felt that his life had gotten habituated. And he asked his wife, “Where do you see me light up? Like, where do I have fun? Because I’ve kind of lost that scent, you know?” Life is so busy because they have two small kids, like, “When can you just tell like, I’m in my moment.” And she gave him those clues because he couldn’t find themselves and she was spot on, and so sure enough, he implemented that in and I just checked in with them and yeah, you know, they were working. And so, for some folks, you know, that type of communication with a good friend that can kind of gut check you and go, “Really?” You know? Like – because sometimes too, you know, I think we talked about this last time, you can trick yourself. I mean, at the lowest level, it’s social media use, right? Often times, we’re just escaping frustration and boredom so we can trick ourselves into thinking like, what we’re doing is enjoyable when it’s not really. It’s just something that we’re doing to pass by the time and get away from the garbage. So, being a little bit more proactive, what, in geeky behavioral science we call, active leisure can be helpful too and so, having an accountability partner like, “Is that really fun or should we go do this because it’s a little bit more challenging?” And I think, will lead to kind of a richer experience, it can be helpful. [0:24:52.8] PF: That’s awesome. So, I’m really looking forward to seeing what people say about this, what kind of experiences they have. What I’d like to do is have you back at the end of the summer and we’ll talk about this. We’ll get feedback you heard, what we’ve gotten back from it, and really, you know, I’m going to walk through this experience too and really talk about how it changed and then how we can take that into the fall and winter months because, as you noted, it might be one to buckle up for. [0:25:19.7] MR: Well, and we call it the fun habit for a reason, right? Might as well turn it into a habit so that you know, this is again, the long game, right? Not just something that is episodically done and then moved on from – we’re not meant to just have fun this summer. [0:25:33.0] PF: All right, well, we’ll do it all year long. Mike, thank you so much for sitting down, I’m so excited to share this email course with our listeners and I will see you back here in a couple of months and we’ll talk about it again. [0:25:43.5] MR: Yeah, I can’t wait. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:25:49.2] PF: To sign up for the Live Happy Summer Fun with Mike Rucker, just visit us at LiveHappy.com and click on this podcast episode. We’ll also tell you how to find Mike’s book, The Fun Habit: How the Pursuit of Joy and Wonder Can Change Your Life, or follow him on social media, and while you're there, you can also sign up for our weekly Live Happy Newsletter. Every week, we drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info and even a happy song of the week. That’s all we have time for today, we’ll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode, and until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make everyday a happy one. [END]

Podcast

Transcript – Overcoming Loneliness With Dr. Jeremy Nobel

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Overcoming Loneliness With Dr. Jeremy Nobel [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 472 of Live Happy Now. Loneliness is one of the major challenges facing our society today. Since this is Loneliness Awareness Week, it's a great time to look at what's behind this loneliness epidemic. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and this week, I'm sitting down with physician, teacher, innovator, and author, Dr. Jeremy Nobel. founder of The Foundation for Art & Healing, and the Project UnLonely initiative. Jeremy, who is also on the faculty of the Harvard Medical School and the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, has published the book, Project UnLonely: Healing Our Crisis of Disconnection. He's here to talk about what loneliness is doing to us and what we should be doing about it. Let's have a listen. [NTERVIEW] [0:00:50] PF: Dr Nobel, thank you so much for joining us on Live Happy Now. [0:00:54] JN: My pleasure to be with you. [0:00:56] PF: It's so important to talk to you any time of the year, but right now, we really are excited to talk to you, because we have Loneliness Awareness Week. Boy, loneliness is such a huge, huge issue for so many people today. I was curious, first of all, where did your interest in not just studying loneliness, but resolving the crisis begin? [0:01:16] JN: Well, actually, it really began in an interesting way after 9/11, but I didn't know that I was really focused on loneliness. I was actually very interested in the trauma of 9/11, as an experience for many people, particularly children. That's what got me started, and I started The Foundation for Art & Healing, 501(c)3 nonprofit. The idea was to promote creative expression as a path to health and wellbeing. Really focusing on the power of the arts to really help us make sense of the world in positive, healthy, stress-reducing, trauma recovery-oriented ways. As we started doing this work with the arts, we quickly found that many people with trauma and dealing with that stress were also quite lonely. They told us that the work we were doing with the arts to engage, and activate, and have kind of exciting conversations, storytelling, and so on, made them feel less lonely and more connected. That really got our attention, and that's what launched Project UnLonely. [0:02:19] PF: What is the connection between trauma and loneliness? [0:02:22] JN: When you're traumatized, so what is trauma? It's a painful, hurtful injury or experience. As you can imagine, when you have something painful, and even if it's something just like touching a hot stove, if you remember all those stories. You learn not to touch hot stoves, you back away from the threat of a hot stove. Many times, trauma is associated with engagement with other people. So, this could be everything from military trauma, to domestic violence, to the repeated marginalization of racism. This is all painful, and so, we withdraw. Almost anything that leads to trauma, in a way, does set you up for a kind of isolation, a kind of loneliness. That relationship is pretty clear. The real challenge, we'll talk more about it, is how do you move from that loneliness towards a sense of connection. [0:03:15] PF: Now, your organization started in 2016 and there was no clue at that point that the loneliness crisis was going to get so bad. In fact, as you mentioned in your book, 2020 was going to be a bang-up year for your organization. You had so much research that you were going to present, and so many speaking engagements, and then that all disappeared. Thank you, COVID. So, has your approach to loneliness changed at all since 2020, and how have you seen loneliness change in society? [0:03:47] JN: All great questions. First, just for clarity, Project UnLonely isn't its own organization. It actually is a project, it's the signature initiative of The Foundation for Art & Healing, which is the organization. Although we formally launched Project on lonely in 2016, we actually started doing the work to understand loneliness and how the arts connect well before that, around 2011 or 2012. Then, the question is, how did the pandemic change the approach to loneliness? I think what it did, in general, was shine a spotlight on it. As you mentioned, we had loneliness well before the pandemic, but somehow, it became part of all of our consciousness in a very different way. As you mentioned, I start my book, Project UnLonely: Healing Our Crisis of Disconnection. Very first page with how dramatically my world got upended in March 2020. Plans, relationships, teaching, travel, all of this just went on hold as we all tried to navigate this new reality, which forced us to have a kind of isolation to protect us and our neighbors from the virus. While isolation is different than loneliness, it's highly associated with it. So, many people experience loneliness in a way they had not before. [0:05:09] PF: I want to touch on that, what you just said, because we do equate isolation with loneliness. We have had an aunt who spent a lot of time alone, and she told me she's like, "I have never been lonely." Even though she was isolated, she didn't feel lonely. What is the difference between isolation and loneliness? Because you can be in a crowd of people and still feel lonely. [0:05:30] JN: Exactly. One of the real goals of my book is to demystify loneliness and humanize it. The first really important lesson, if you will, is that being alone is not the same thing as being lonely. Being alone is objective. It's the absence of social connection. This can be, if you're in a rural setting, or even isolated in an apartment in an urban setting, where, let's say, you've got a disability, you can't leave easily, or you're fearful about going outside. So then, you are alone. But being alone can be such a positive experience of thoughtful reflection, consideration, the bigger world picture, contemplation. We have a high-class word for it. We sometimes call it solitude, and we do need solitude, but that's different than being lonely. Here's what loneliness is. It's subjective, it's a feeling, it's a mood state. It's the difference between the social connections with other people that we would like to have and what we feel we do have. That gap is what we experience as loneliness. As you pointed out, you actually can be lonely in a crowd. It has nothing to do with whether there are other people around you. It's whether you have the social connections you want. If you're with other people, but don't feel connected to them, you feel lonely. That introduces what I found, a really important observation, and I think, maybe your community will also, is that they're different types of loneliness. [0:07:10] PF: I'm so glad you brought that up, because you talk about three types of loneliness. I was like, I thought there was just loneliness. Can you dig into that and tell us about that? [0:07:17] JN: Right. Well, I thought so too, until we actually started going out and talking about it. So, very simply, there's psychological loneliness, which is, "Do I have a friend? Is there someone I can tell my troubles to?" That's what many people think of when they think of loneliness. But then, there's also the loneliness of systematic exclusion. We call that societal loneliness, because of race, or gender, or disability. Do people evaluate you in that very superficial characteristic and treat you differently, and, in a sense, withdraw from you in a systematic way? That's very different than not having a friend. You could have plenty of friends, but if you feel, for instance, are in a racist workplace and it's not safe to be in certain conversations, you're going to experience loneliness in even though you might have friends. The third type of loneliness, which I am very interested in, and it's been around thousands of years, is where do I relate to the bigger world, the narrative of human experience. People with a religious orientation often call kind of the religious world, God, the universe. But you don't have to be religious to have a sense of curiosity about how your life fits into the bigger story. What was here on the planet before I arrived? What will be here after I depart? Does my life have meaning, consequence? If you don't have solid grounding and answers to those questions, you can feel quite lonely. I think that's the loneliness that's affecting a lot of what we know is the loneliest demographic, 18 to 28 years old. They have plenty of friends, they're connected on social media, but they're wondering, "What am I doing? What's my future? Does my life have meaning? Do I matter?" That could be quite distressing, and it's its own form of loneliness. [0:09:13] PF: Is the way that you address those different forms of loneliness, does that differ? [0:09:20] JN: Absolutely. As someone who in the public health world, and through Project UnLonely, we're trying to design interventions that are powerful for people, as you might imagine. If the loneliness is the loneliness of uncertainty about your meaning in the world, that's very different than the loneliness of not having someone to talk to. So, if you think, "Okay. What do I need to feel less lonely?" One of the first important questions to ask yourself is, what type of loneliness am I experiencing? In my book, I provide different questions we can ask, but they're kind of what you might think. Do I enjoy relationships with others where I can have a chance to have authentic conversations? Or, are those missing from my life? If they're missing from my life, how might I pursue having more of them? So, we lay out some of the strategies for that also. If your feeling of loneliness is uncertainty about your own positioning in the universe, of meaning, and is there purpose. Then, you might want to ask yourself more about how you want to relate to that, how you feel you can be more meaningful, and part of the bigger story. There's some strategies I talked about in the book for that too. [0:10:33] PF: How did you come up with these different strategies? Obviously, you're a fabulous researcher. How did you come to understand those different types of loneliness, and this is what would resolve them? [0:10:45] JN: It's a really great question. The way, again, research works, science works, it's driven by one thing. By the way, it's the same thing that drives the arts, and that's curiosity. As we started going out, and doing programs, and having conversations with hundreds of people about their loneliness and what their experience was, we began to see patterns and trends. It's also important to know that of these three types of loneliness, you could have one type, two types, or three types altogether. That was the first thing, was the observation, awareness. In terms of what works to impact it, some of that is based on psychology research in laboratory settings. We can study what seems to activate people, to embolden them, to be able to connect with others, and tolerate what I sometimes call discomfort of disclosure. Because if you reveal something authentic about yourself, and then someone says, "Sorry, you're too boring. I don't want to have a conversation with you." [0:11:48] PF: Or, "That's just too much for me." [0:11:50] JN: Exactly. Or, "I can't handle that." Then, you might feel rejected, abandoned, critiqued, and that hurts. So then, you're reluctant to do that. People, in a way, they connect with others, have to learn to tolerate the fact that you're not always 100% successful, and to keep going just like – you have to explore, and try different things, and see what works for you personally. [0:12:16] PF: That makes so much sense. There was a report that caught everyone's attention. I think it was within the last year, and it's really quoted quite a bit, and that is that loneliness is more dangerous than smoking. We hear that a lot, but we don't hear the reasoning behind that. Could you explain to us why it's so harmful, and also, physically, what loneliness does to us? [0:12:41] JN: Absolutely. That work, that sound bite about being smoking. It can be as dangerous as smoking – loneliness can be as dangerous as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Why is that? Because at its chronic extreme stages, loneliness actually changes how the brain functions, and it also increases inflammation, a real driver for illness, and it impairs immune system function. So, many of these excess deaths that lead to a 30% increase risk of a shorter lifespan are not because of suicides or overdose, drug overdoses. You could imagine loneliness could cause those, and it does. Those are factored out of these scientific analyzes. Most of the deaths are cardiovascular, it's heart attack, it's stroke, sometimes it's cancer death, or metabolic death. Disease and illness related to diabetes. It's important to know that loneliness unchecked, unattended to, when it spirals out of control can be very, very hard on our physical systems too, not just our mental attitudes. [BREAK] [0:13:50] PF: We'll be right back with Dr. Jeremy Nobel, but I wanted to take a moment to talk about how you can beat the heat and get better sleep this summer. I've become such a big fan of Cozy Earth sheets for a lot of reasons. But as the temperatures rise, I've found one more reason to make them the only sheets I want to sleep on. Thanks to their cutting-edge temperature regulating technology, Cozy Earth's bedding lets me stay cool and comfortable, even on the hottest days and nights. That means, I can wake up refreshed and ready for the day. Here's the best part, our exclusive offer for listeners like you gets you a 30% discount and a free item when you use COZY HAPPY at cozyearth.com/livehappynow. These sheets also offer the unbeatable combination of softness and durability, giving you an incredible, comfortable sleep experience. So, invest in your sleep health this summer and stay cool backed by Cozy Earth's 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty. Visit cozyearth.com/livehappynow, and use the code COZY HAPPY to unlock this special offer and optimize your sleep for better health. After placing your order, be sure to select podcast in the survey, and then select Live Happy Now in the drop-down menu that follows. Now, let's get back to my conversation with Dr. Jeremy Nobel. [INTERVIEW CONTINUES] [0:15:10] PF: I recall, even, probably about 20 years ago, having a friend who was going through a divorce and she said, "I'm lonely." It struck me, because I think, that was the first time it actually had somebody say that to me, like it was almost a shameful thing to say, "I'm lonely." What was that mindset and does any of that still remain? [0:15:32] JN: We started Project UnLonely with three goals, Paula. One was to increase awareness of loneliness, and how toxic it can be for your health. The second, which is what we're going to talk about, is to reduce the stigma that surrounds it. The third is to put these powerful imagination, creativity-fueled programs out in the community, so people can be better engaged. But let's talk more about stigma. Many people feel that if they're lonely, it's their fault, that there's something about them, that they're broken, they're flawed, they're incomplete, they're inadequate. This is all just a social personal construction. That's what they believe. The only good news about that is that, anything that's socially and culturally constructed can be culturally reconstructed. So, I think we have an enormous opportunity. I first heard this idea from John Cacioppo, University of Chicago, who died, unfortunately. Shortly before the pandemic, it's a real pioneer in understanding loneliness, and how it impacts not just our brains, but our behaviors. He said, "Why don't we think about loneliness as a signal that there's something we need, a biologic signal? Just like thirst is a signal, we need hydration. Loneliness is a signal that every one of us needs some degree of human connection." Obviously, most people don't feel embarrassed or guilty about thirsty. Why do we feel embarrassed about being lonely? It goes back to this cultural assumption, in our cultural kind of matrix of, kind of how we put things together. People, as I said, feel that they're flawed. What if we can shift that to just say, "Hey, it's just a signal. What do I need now?" Human connection. "How do I find it? What type of loneliness do I have?" Then, you follow the reasonable paths to get better connected, either psychologically, or societally. or spiritually. [0:17:30] PF: As people become more willing to explore that, how is that going to open up the world a little bit better? You reference Gen Z and how they are incredibly lonely despite being connected. How, as we change this conversation, do you see the world is going to open up? [0:17:48] JN: All right. Here's an experiment I do when I do public speaking now. I ask people, raise your hand if you know someone who is seriously and significantly lonely. Not if you're lonely, but if you know someone. Hundred percent of the hands go up. Then, I say, "How many people have you heard say out loud, 'I'm lonely.'"? Only 50% of the hands go up. If this were even five years ago, only 10% of the hands will go up. So, we're making progress. We have a long way to go, but we're making progress. So, that's encouraging. I think a lot of it is the younger demographic that I mentioned, the loneliest demographic, 18 to 28 do seem willing to talk about their mental health and so on, and take the risk of being judged, criticized, excluded. I admire that courage. What we're trying to do with project and lonely is to actually also give them workshops. and programs that they can participate in, that are delivered not by us. We develop our programs and then they're delivered by colleges, by libraries, by faith-based groups, by community centers. Because as our surgeon general calls for in the report, you mentioned, we need to create a culture of connection, where it's not viewed as an illness or a flaw, loneliness. The connection is valued as something we celebrate at a personal level. We do it with friends, with family. We actively look for opportunities to get together and have the, sometimes just very simple conversations that can still be quite meaningful. They don't have to be deep, heart-to-heart disclosure conversation every time. It can be, "Hey, what's lighting you up these days?" "Let me tell you." "Oh." It's so important, these casual networks of human exchange, and not just social media, memes, and likes, and follows around short videos, but actual conversations in real life. [0:19:54] PF: Can just the acknowledgement, even to ourselves that we're lonely. Does that start changing things for us? [0:20:01] JN: I think it does if it isn't also associated with guilt and self-blame. So, to say, "I'm lonely because I'm a loser, and I've always been a loser", is not a very helpful step forward. But to say, "I'm lonely." But loneliness, and I truly believe this is the world's most human feeling, the need for other people. It's a signal that there's something I need. How do I follow that signal and lead myself forward to a path of personal discovery? Because I think if we're not comfortable knowing who we are, it's hard to have authentic conversations, and friendships with others. But then, how do I feel part of a bigger world where, "Yes, I exist as a person, but I'm part of a much bigger story." That often makes people feel better and feel connected. [0:20:48] PF: We all feel lonely time to time. But how does someone know if it's a problem, if it's chronic loneliness, versus just something we're going through right now? [0:20:58] JN: That's a really great question. I think part of that is really to pay a lot of attention to how you're doing, feeling in kind of navigating the world. In the book, I call this the pyramid of vulnerability. Imagine a pyramid with three layers. The bottom layer is where we all are all the time. Every human being, as I said, can feel lonely from time to time, so that's us. At that bottom layer, we should be trying to do things to build our social resilience, our social connection levels. But yet, no matter who you are in your life and all of our lives, we will be faced with challenges that really do increase our risk of loneliness. That moves us to the middle tier. So, that could be loss of a loved one, the breakup of relationship, a new serious illness, whatever it is, loss of a job, concern about some future event like the national elections. That starts a kind of risk for a spiral, where you start to withdraw. That's when it's most critical to say, "Okay. Am I starting to feel more anxious? Am I having trouble sleeping? Am I having trouble concentrating? Maybe it's because I'm lonely." Ask yourself that. Then, if you are, to go through this exploration, well, what type of loneliness is it. Then, follow the strategies to get connected. Because if you can interact at that middle tier of vulnerability, and then reduce the risk to spiral down into a good direction towards the base, you avoid spiraling up into the highest tier of loneliness. That's where loneliness becomes a serious medical issue, where it is like smoking 15 cigarettes a day, where you have a 30% increased risk of heart attack. or stroke. or death from either. But we don't have to get to that level if we can engage earlier and kind of reestablish balance, and a sense of comfort and connection, calm it down, so we're back down to the bottom tier. Does that make sense? [0:23:04] PF: It does. I wondered as you were talking, because once you reach that top level, it seems like it's going to be most difficult to pull yourself out. What then should those around you – because if I'm your friend and I see this, it's probably going to take some sort of intervention or outreach from me. Because once you hit that top, you're a goner, but you're in deep. [0:23:27] JN: You are in deep, and that's when you're really most in need. As you point out, it's often where you are least able to navigate your way out of it completely on your own. That's where one of the things we can do in building a culture of connection, is to kind of keep an eye out on our friends, family, even neighbors, and not be their therapist, not be their parent, but be their friend. Bear in mind how even a simple kind word, when you're passing by somebody on the street can totally change their day, can totally change their sense of optimism, of positive possibility, curiosity for that day. Stabilize them from what otherwise could be very difficult thoughts, sometimes thoughts of self-harm, and just kind of remind them that, "Hey, there's some positive things going on in the world. I'm out here too, and you're not alone, you're not broken, and you're not defective." It doesn't require a therapist to have these daily reminders that we're all human, we're all connected. We all feel lonely from time to time, but we can be part of a larger and connected story. I think the arts and imagination, obviously, can give us kind of fun ways to tell that story of being connected, and then share those stories with others. [0:24:42] PF: Yes. I love that your solution goes to the arts. Can you talk about the role that creative and artistic expression plays in combating loneliness? Then, give us some ideas for how people can use that in their own lives? [0:24:56] JN: Absolutely. I think, first of all, it's now really clear that arts and creative expression change the brain. When we change the brain, we change our minds. We change our minds, we change behaviors. Here's how arts change the brain. One major way the arts and all the arts, by the way work. So not just the traditional arts like music, visual art, language arts like poetry, movement arts like dance, but culinary arts, cooking. The creative assembly of food ingredients, the taste, the smell, the sensation in your mouth as you eat fun food. So, that's a creative form. Textile arts, these have been around for centuries. Knitting, crocheting, quilting, these are wonderful creative activities. Then, gardening. Just bringing four things from nature, what a friend of mine calls the world's slowest performance art form. [0:25:54] PF: I love that. [0:25:56] JN: These are how the arts can change us. They reduce cortisol levels, the stress hormone that puts us on edge, drives fight or flight, which means we're always hyper vigilant. That does increase inflammation. It's what alters the immune system. But the arts also increase levels of dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, the so-called feel-good hormones. Then, very importantly, the arts also change how we make sense of the social world. What otherwise we might see as threats, like somebody walking towards us through the arts, particularly the ones that increase our sense of compassion, empathy, that person can look like an opportunity, someone I can have a conversation with. That's kind of the cascade of how changes in the brain from the arts, then literally change our levels of optimism, possibility. Sometimes, this is all in the positive psychology realm, as you know. But then, most importantly, it changes how we behave. We're willing to smile at a stranger, we're willing to take the risk of even a little piece of casual conversation in the grocery store. Then, if you take that risk and people respond, it starts moving your brain and mind in a more positive way, and the positive spiral happens. This is why the arts, I think, can be such a catalyst for connection. [0:27:17] PF: I absolutely love that. Big question is, where do people start? [0:27:22] JN: I think, if it's around the arts, I think it comes back to curiosity. Explore the world in some creative form that you enjoy. If you don't know what you enjoy, yet, try different things. Try drawing, try just kind of move with colored markers on white paper, and just say, "How am I feeling today? We have prompts and activities for this on our website. Imagine a time in your life that was meaningful to you. Then. don't draw the experience. Let yourself feel the feelings associated with that time, and then try to draw the feelings using color and shade. There's no wrong answer to these exercises. So. you get it all out on the page. Then, in many of our workshops, what we do is, we do this as a group. We make the art on our own, but then we pair up and we tell our personal stories. That's the second really powerful things the arts do. They invite and allow us to share our stories. Because almost every creative form, whether it's a casserole, a chocolate chip cookie, or a Picasso painting is a form of a story. It's a narrative, we're trying to express something. So, the arts enable that. Then, the last thing the arts do, and I particularly feel this with certain kinds of music, is they kind of transform us to a kind of awe and wonder about the world. I feel this in poetry also. I'm a poet, and reading a poem by who might no longer even be alive with us can still make me feel like I'm a small but important part of a very big and very wonderful story. [0:29:03] PF: That's fantastic. Now, we're going to tell the listeners how they can find your website, how they can find your book. As you said, you have resources on the website so they can start doing some of these exercises. Your book has prompts and walks us through this. What is it that you want everyone listening to know and understand about loneliness? [0:29:23] JN: Let me go back to some of the things we talked about. By the way, thank you for helping get the word out. The other thing we have that's a lot of fun for people who aren't immediately willing to, "Oh, I'm going to make some art." Is, we use the power of the arts in the form of short films. We're now working with Steve Buscemi, the celebrated actor and filmmaker. He's an ambassador for what we call Project UnLonely Films. You come to our website and there's a whole portfolio of short films that look at loneliness and some of the major social territories in which they exist. So, trauma, aging, illness, difference, the modern world. You get to explore loneliness through the lens, literally, of someone who's making a film on it. Then, if you watch it with a few other people, you can just say, "Hey, what did we just watch?" and have a conversation. Don't overlook the opportunity. Come to our site, watch some of our films, sign up for our newsletter, so we'll send you a little link every week or two with a film and some conversation starters. So, there are lots of ways we can move from being a little bit cautious in a defensive crouch, which we're all in post-pandemic, to something a little bit more open-hearted, a little bit more open-minded. [0:30:40] PF: That is fantastic. The work you're doing is amazing. It's very necessary, and I truly believe it's going to help move that needle on loneliness in our society. So, I thank you for the work you're doing, first of all. Then, secondly, I really appreciate your time. It was an honor to sit down with you and talk about this. I know our listeners have gotten a lot out of this conversation. [0:31:00] JN: Thank you. It's my absolute pleasure, and even this conversation makes me feel more connected. So, thank you for that, too, Paula. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:31:08] PF: That was Dr. Jeremy Nobel, talking about loneliness. If you'd like to learn more about Jeremy, check out his book, Project UnLonely: Healing Our Crisis of Disconnection. Visit his website for resources or follow him on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every week, we'll drop a little bit of joy into your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Podcast

Transcript – What’s Driving Gen Z’s Anxiety (and What to Do About It) With Dr. Lauren Cook

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: What’s Driving Gen Z’s Anxiety (and What to Do About It) With Dr. Lauren Cook [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 471 of Live Happy Now. Younger generations are experiencing stress and anxiety differently than previous generations. That's something we're making part of the ongoing conversation here at Live Happy. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and this week, I'm joined by author and clinical psychologist, Dr. Lauren Cook. Her latest book, Generation Anxiety looks at why Millennials and Gen Z are so anxious and how that's affecting them. She's here today to talk about some of the things that are driving that anxiety, and importantly, offers insight into what we can do to help change this downward spiral, and what that will mean for future generations. Let's have a listen. [EPISODE] [0:00:46] PF: Lauren, welcome back to Live Happy Now. [0:00:48] LC: It's so good to see you again, Paula. [0:00:51] PF: I'm really excited to sit down have this conversation with you because you're doing some incredible work with Gen Z and Millennials. As you know, you and I have talked about this. Live Happy Now is really concerned about the mental health of Gen Z. We're really committed to keeping that dialogue open. So, your book does an excellent, incredible job of looking at, not just Gen Z, but Millennials. I wanted to kick it off, I wanted to know if you could talk about why both of those generations are so anxiety-ridden. [0:01:23] LC: Yes. We are really seeing an increase in anxiety both in prevalence, meaning more and more people and severity. Intensity of symptoms is increasing as well. So, we're seeing it horizontally, longitudinally, all the ways. Anxiety is absolutely increasing for folks. I think it's happening both personally, but also very much communally. When you look at what's happened in our country in the last two decades, in particular, it's been one thing after another. There's a really interesting survey that asked people, "What's been the most significant effect generationally that's happened to you in your lifetime?" You, as Baby Boomers, you asked the great generation who experienced the depression, World War Two, Gen X. They all say – you can probably guess what it is. The number one significant event in their lifetime and Millennials will say this as well. [0:02:18] PF: 9/11. [0:02:18] LC: September 11th. There you go. However, if you look at what's happened in Gen Z's lifetime, we've got the Trump election, Black Lives Matter, George Floyd's murder, climate change events, the Me Too movement. I mean, I could keep going for quite a while about the long laundry list of things. I don't say that to be political. These are historical events that are happening. It is really affecting young adults to be living in this world where they're just inundated by chaotic and distressing news. And, you also have what's happening personally in their lives as well, with social media, academic pressure. These two generations, even though they're the most educated, are the most financially worse off than their previous generations. That's really frustrating, to feel like you're told this myth of like, "Work hard and you will be able to succeed." They're working really hard, and it's very hard to succeed, to own a house, all these different things. That breaks the person down over time. [0:03:24] PF: Can you talk about how they're different from previous generations? Because I want to dive into that a little bit, because I've heard people who seem to not really understand. They think like, basically, we're all the same. We were just born at different times. So, can you correct that way of thinking? [0:03:42] LC: Yes. Social media, it sounds almost like low hanging fruit at this point. But it really, I think, has made a difference for Millennials and Gen Z. They grew up at this time when – especially Millennials like myself, social media was just coming on the scene. We didn't know what was happening. Gen Z, in particular, have been the guinea pigs of social media, of having technology, getting a cell phone when they're 10 years old, right? We didn't necessarily know what effects this was going to have on the brain. But now, we're seeing this play out, where we're seeing social anxiety increased. So many young adults, they don't know how to answer the phone, they don't know how to have a conversation with a stranger. They also feel really unsafe in this world. The Stress in America survey asked young adults, "What are you afraid of?" Seventy-five percent said their greatest fear is gun violence. For this generation, to wake up and they see movie theaters, concerts, schools, places of worship, no place is safe. Now, everybody looks around their shoulder every time they go out. Am I safe? Is something going to happen to me? Is something going to happen to my loved one? We could have a whole conversation about separation anxiety, Paula, and how this generation really experiences it. Because our world just feels incredibly unsafe to these young adults. When you look at what has happened, I think it's understandable why. [0:05:10] PF: Does the fact that parents are also then trying to protect those children? We're doing it from a good place, but doesn't that also increase those feelings of the world's not safe and I should be afraid? [0:05:22] LC: Exactly, exactly. It's a really fine line, between wanting to protect our kids. And at the same time, not over protecting where our kids are learning this message, "I can't do anything in my life." I cite this in Generation Anxiety, my book, a really interesting study. That when parents give this message to their kids, that the world is unsafe, people are going to hurt you, we do see that there are increases in depression and anxiety for kids. When parents have a more optimistic outlook, go out there. live your life, yes, bad, scary things can happen. But statistically, the chances of that are pretty slim. Go out there and experience your life. Those kids are less likely to be anxious and depressed. Even though we turn on the news, and we hear these difficult things. We also have to remind ourselves, okay, what is the chance of that happening to me when I go to a movie theater, when I go to a concert, and not keeping ourselves in such a small box at the same time? [0:06:23] PF: You know, that's something Deb Heisz, CEO for Live Happy and I have talked about. We've talked about it on the air that when you're constantly watching the news, you do start seeing the world as unsafe, and very scary place. I think it is important for parents to be mindful of what children are being exposed to, in the home in terms of what kind of news, what kind of television is on at any given time, because that is having a deep, deep effect on them. [0:06:52] LC: It is. It is. There's really great conversations happening right now about parental attachment, and really taking time to be with our kids, to be present with our kids. I'm a new mom myself. My son turns one this Sunday. [0:07:07] PF: Well, congratulations, first of all. [0:07:09] LC: Thank you. I'm super excited about it. But we don't even, I think realize at this point how much we use our phones. I catch myself doing it where, "Oh, let me just answer a few emails. Let me get to a few text messages." Meanwhile, my son is right there by me playing, and he's, I'm sure, perceiving me being sucked into a phone. That's something Gen Z has experienced too. Even though I don't think it's intentional, we just haven't had as much face-to-face interaction with each other because we're face-to-facing with our phone. [0:07:44] PF: From a parent's standpoint, if you have someone who is part of Gen Z, what are some things in terms of that mindset of safety? Because, again, we want to keep our children safe, we want to be there. But how do we do that, and advise them without terrifying them? Because the world, we can make it pretty terrifying if we really talk about it. [0:08:06] LC: We definitely can. I approach things with this mentality, I call them powered acceptance. First piece is, we have to accept what's going on in our world. If our kids ask about it, we can't lie to them. We need to be honest about what's happening, and we need to really have a sense of what's going on in our world. If we don't know what the problems are, how do we fix them? But we also have to be empowered, we have to take action. This is the thing; anxiety makes people want to avoid. It makes people want to run away and say, "I don't want to get on that plane. I don't want to go to that show. I don't want to ask that new person to be my friend because it makes me feel anxious." Anxiety just grows bigger and bigger and bigger. So, we have to be empowered and start to kind of push the boundaries of what our anxiety is wanting to make us do. We have to take action to see, "Oh, I can ask somebody to hang out, even though that makes me feel anxious." Or, "I can go to that concert because I love Taylor Swift. Sure, something scary could happen, I will deal with that." At the end of the day, anxiety is about not wanting to face the reality of that things end, that things change, that we can experience pain. These are not necessarily warm, fuzzy ideas, right? But if we actually teach ourselves and our kids that we can sit with distress, we can sit with discomfort. The world opens up to us in a whole new way and we no longer have to be in fear of pain. [0:09:40] PF: How do you start sharing that message? Because that's huge, to be able to sit with discomfort, especially in a time when there are a million distractions that we can have at our fingertips. First of all, how do we as the adults in the room, how do we learn how to do that, and then, how do you pass that along? [0:10:03] LC: We have to model it ourselves. We have to show our kids that we're okay handling discomfort. They are watching us so closely to notice when we avoid when we lean in. Sure, sometimes we do need to take a step back and rest. It's not always about powering and pushing through. It's just as important to show our kids how we can set healthy boundaries, how we can say no sometimes. But our kids also need to see us getting a little bit uncomfy, even if it's something like giving a speech at work, or having a tough conversation with our partner, but in a healthy, appropriate way. These are all modeling examples that our kids are really taking in. Aat the same time, I think when we can show our kids and encourage them to lean into their discomfort, and cheer them on for that, that's so, so helpful. Because I do see a lot of parents enable their kid's anxiety, they feel like it's an act of love to let them get out of things. But if we can show them, hey, you can actually go to that soccer game when you felt really nervous about it rather than stay home. We're teaching our kids their resilience in those moments. [0:11:14] PF: I love that. I absolutely love that. What are some of the signs that we should be looking for that someone is struggling with anxiety? Because we can kind of tell internally, when we've got it going on ourselves, but we might not always see it in someone else. [0:11:28] LC: I'm really glad you asked that, Paula. There's a few things to really make note of. If you notice any sleep difficulties, that's a classic one of someone who's having trouble falling or staying asleep. If you notice somebody's having difficulty concentrating. Sometimes that can get a little confusing with ADHD, but that's also a sign of anxiety. If somebody feels or notices that they're really keyed up or on edge, it's like a hamster on a wheel, go, go, go. Here's one that people often miss, irritability. We think irritability is its own thing, but irritability is actually often a sign of anxiety and depression. So, if you notice somebody's getting snappy or quiet, that's something to pay attention to. Again, any kind of avoided behavior, if you notice your kiddo or yourself, "Oh, we used to always go out to dinner together, and now my kid doesn't want to go out for a meal." Or, "I'm noticing my kiddo doesn't want to go on car rides, or plane rides." All these different things where avoidance could be really coming into play, that's a hallmark of anxiety. [0:12:32] PF: So then, once you start seeing it, and not just as a parent, because I'm not a parent, but I have a lot of young people in my life. You're in it, it's a different situation, because there's a lot of things you cannot do. So, what is it? If you see anxiety, if you start recognizing, "Hey, this person might be struggling with anxiety." What are some things that you should start doing to reach out to them? [0:12:59] LC: Self-disclosure here is really powerful. Anxiety is something that, just about everybody has some touchpoint with. Self-disclosing when you yourself have felt anxious and humanizing yourself in that way is so relieving to someone with anxiety. Because the thing, and I see this with so many of my clients, they don't want anyone to know they're anxious. They think it's so embarrassing, and it's like, welcome to the human club. If we can make it okay to be anxious, ironically, that's actually when anxiety starts to go down. But people get so much anxiety about hiding their anxiety. "I don't want anyone to notice." It really magnifies it for them. So, if you yourself, show your humaneness of like, "Oh my gosh, I felt really anxious about this or really worried about this, how do you feel about it?" It really opens that door for someone to share what's behind their own curtain. [0:13:57] PF: Then, once they start sharing that, and once they kind of start unpacking the cause of their anxiety, where do you go from there? I mean, one thing is, I'm reading your book. Just the depth and the breadth of how far-reaching anxiety can be, and how deeply emotional river that runs through it is, it made it a bigger issue than I even really had looked at it from. So, once someone shares with you, then what do you do? Other than say, "Call Dr. Lauren Cook." [0:14:28] LC: Thank you, Paula. Well, I'd like to take a holistic approach. That's something I really hope comes across in the book to move beyond just a westernized model of care. I am all for therapy, I'm all for medication. I'm a psychologist, so I'm very much for those things. However, I also believe there's a lot of different things that can work for people with anxiety and anxiety is such a physical experience. I mean, especially when you look at the gut brain access connection, and how much of our anxiety really can settle into our gut and our stomach. We've got to look at all of those different things. The food, the drinks we put into our bodies. Amazing book on this is Dr. Uma Naidoo's This is Your Brain on Food, and really getting curious about what we're eating is either inflaming or healing our gut. Quick tip, everybody listening, please get your bloodwork done. Because people can spend thousands of dollars on therapy, when something is going off in your chemistry. Your vitamin D levels are low, magnesium, B12. If those things are out of whack, doesn't matter how much cognitive therapy you do, you're going to feel anxious, my friend. It's important to do the due diligence of looking at yourself holistically, not just from the neck up, but really looking at our entire physical body for overall healing. [0:15:54] PF: I love that you brought that up. Because for myself, I'm very big on what I eat. I know that everything has – there's a cause and effect. So, being very careful about avoiding preservatives, and dyes, and sugars, and things like that. I see that as an area where that does get overlooked, because so much of what we have on our shelves today is – well, it's not food, actually. It's just chemicals in a really nice package. So, I'm super happy to see you bringing that up. Do you see that when people change some of the things that they're eating, they start having a different experience with anxiety? [0:16:33] LC: Big time. big time. Yes. It's everything from cutting back on preservatives, cutting back on sugar. That's hard for me, because I'm such a sweet tooth myself. Alcohol is a big one. A lot of my college-aged clients will tell you, "Oh, I have anxiety" on the next day. They get bad anxiety with the hangover. So, a lot of them are starting to get sober curious, as we say, and starting to play with, "Okay. What happens when I'm not drinking for a while?" Because, even if someone's drinking every other day, their sleep patterns never have a chance to equilibrate. Sleep is a huge part in anxiety and treatment. So, this is all wrapped up in itself. Even hydration, staying hydrated with water. We see when the brain is not getting enough water, things spiral quickly. So, absolutely, I think that's something that has been missed in the narrative, because it seems so simple. We're told from a young age, eat your fruits and veggies, blah, blah. It has a real effect on brain health. [0:17:39] PF: That is great. I hope more people will jump on that and look at what they're putting in and what that's doing to their bodies. I know Dr. Drew Ramsey, is someone we've had on the show before. When someone comes in with depression, the first thing he does is look at what they're eating. Before he tries medication, he will have them change their diet, and most times, medication is not needed. That just really supports the kind of work that you're doing too. [0:18:07] LC: That's incredible. I believe it. [0:18:10] PF: So, as I said, your book really outlines just how massive this issue is right now. Do you see this as a solvable problem? Because it is huge. It's kind of like, can we have world peace? I feel like this is somewhere out there with it. [0:18:25] LC: I did have a stint in beauty pageant days. So perhaps, this is my world peace moment. I don't know. I am forever an optimist. I love Seligman's work on positive psychology, and the effects of optimism. I do believe that things can get better. I always have that hope. I'm also a realist, though, and the book is not about trying to make anxiety go away. It's about learning how to live with anxiety. I think that's something people get a little bit lost on. They feel like they're a failure if they can't get their anxiety to stop. The reality is, sometimes your anxiety may be here to stay. But the more you fight it, the more the beast is going to grow bigger in you. But if you embrace what I call your inner sea otter, lay back in your waters, and say, "All right, I'm anxious. So, what?" It really starts to lose its power. I've seen that in my own life. I'm very open about my own lived experience with anxiety and emetophobia in particular, which is a phobia of vomit, really fun. But I'm very open about how I've lived with that and have worked hard to not let it stop me living the life that I want to live. [0:19:40] PF: Yes. What's interesting in your book, you also explained where that came from. I found that very, very fascinating. I'm not going to tell the listeners how because now they have to go find your book and look it up. [0:19:51] LC: Tease. [0:19:52] PF: It is. That actually played into another question that I had for you, which is about generational trauma and epigenetics is such a huge area of study. I think it's been disregarded a lot in the past, where we don't look at the effect of what happened with our parents and our grandparents, and how that anxiety and other types of traumas get passed along. Can you talk just a little bit about what role that intergenerational trauma plays and how we kind of can use that and correct the trajectory of that trauma? [0:20:27] LC: I'm really happy that you reference that, because I think we can get very quickly into the blame game of, "What's wrong with me? What am I doing wrong?" It is generational buildup, it's like emotional tartar that has been passed down. One study, I found this so fascinating in the research for the book about Holocaust survivors, how it was actually their grandchildren that had more anxiety than the Holocaust survivors themselves. Really seeing how this generational trauma gets passed down. Now, I also found research though that it can be changed as well, in a better way as too, that diet, nutrition, what people eat can really make a positive impact for people. But it makes us really think about. "Wow, the choices I'm making for myself now, it doesn't just affect me. It affects my kids and even my grandkids." You even look at studies with smoking, and how that impacts people for generations to come. This is something I think we can get more curious about. I think we were really just at the tip of the iceberg with epigenetics research. I'm staying closely aware of it, because I think we're only going to see more and more. This is where I do have an optimistic lens here, that we can make better choices that are going to be good for more generations to come. [0:21:51] PF: If we don't figure this out, what are the consequences for future generations? Knowing what we just said, that it's passed down. If we cannot start correcting the true trajectory of happiness for Gen Z now, what is the consequence? [0:22:09] LC: Unfortunately, I think it means we're only going to see more anxiety, more depression, and potentially even more suicidality. That's something that I think is very important for us to talk about, as well, that we lose on average 12 people a day to suicide between the ages of just 15 to 24. That's one every two hours. That's incredibly concerning to me. This is something we're all going to have to collectively get on board with, especially when it comes to climate change for example. There is more and more research about kids who grow up in environments where there's a lot of smog in the air, that we're seeing increases in anxiety and depression for those folks. How do you tackle that? That is going to be more than just food and drink. That is something we are all going to have to really get on board with. I think part of it is really tapping into our empathy for the human experience. My husband and I were just talking about this the other day about how we live in such an individualistic society. You see cars cut in front of each other, people cut each other in line. We're so much thinking about what's fastest and easiest for me. I think we really have to get into our empathy of, how might someone else be experiencing this, what is it like for the life of someone else, and how can I make changes in my life? Not just to self-serve me, but to serve someone else. We know that is so good for our brain, ultimately, to tap into altruism and generosity, but it's a practice. I think as we become more isolated, we have become more individualistic and selfish, so we've got to really start pushing up against that. [0:23:57] PF: I agree. I know during the pandemic; they saw empathy decline greatly. We weren't face-to-face, we were in our little silos, and bubbles, and didn't interact. I don't know what current research shows if we're bouncing back from that at all. But what is your recommendation? Okay, doctor, what's your prescription for us? Where do we start and how do we start changing things for Gen Z and for subsequent generations? [0:24:26] LC: I think this is one of the greatest strengths of Gen Z. They really care about other people, even though they may be more socially anxious around other people. They do really have compassion for one another. You see that when they have these protests on gun violence, when you see them protesting what's happening in Gaza. They're doing it because they're thinking about somebody who's thousands of miles away. So, that ability to empathize with another person's experience in that lens, I think is really inspiring. I think it's something that we all need to get called back into, of realizing a lot of us got a lucky draw, honestly, to be born where we may live, have the families that we may live. I think sometimes, we can think like, "Well, I earned all this." Sure, we all work very hard, and at the same time, realizing when we wake up, I could have just as easily been that person down the road or that person in another country. How can I have empathy for that experience, even though it may not be my own lived experience that's uncomfortable? But the more we build our distress tolerance skills of being willing to sit with discomfort, I think the better off we'll be. Lastly, I'll say, giving ourselves the permission to hold the dialectic, because I see people get a little bit all or nothing with this of like, "Well, if I sit with the sadness of what's happening in the world, I'm never going to be happy." But really, we can expand it where our human emotions can hold great capacity to say, "I feel the pain of the world, I acknowledge it, I feel it, and I still can give myself permission to enjoy and savor the life that I have at the same time." Both can exist. [0:26:17] PF: I love that. it also can just be a way to encourage us to do something for others. Being able to sit with that and say, "Alright. What can I change? I cannot change what's going on across in another country. But I can change what the experience is for my neighbor, or for this person down the street. or for the homeless person on the corner." [0:26:38] LC: Yes. I really do believe that the tiniest little things make a positive impact. If we would just smile at each other, the world, would feel that change. So, I'm always encouraging my clients and young adults that I work with, lift your head up from the phone, share eye contact with someone, feel another person's humanity, things will start to feel a lot different. [0:27:06] PF: That is excellent advice right there. That's what we all need to be doing. This is fantastic. I know your book gives so much information, so much insight. It's obviously a labor of love and research, and very, very well done. I'm excited to tell our listeners about it. I think we might be having something from you on the website coming up. We'll keep talking because Gen Z is front and center in our minds right now, and we want to keep this conversation going, and I appreciate you sitting down and being a part of it. [0:27:39] LC: Paula, the feeling is mutual. Thank you so much for caring about this and bringing a microphone to it. I'm grateful for you. [0:27:47] PF: All right. Well, Lauren, until next time. Thank you so much. [0:27:51] LC: Thanks, Paula. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:27:55] PF: That was Dr. Lauren Cook, talking about anxiety and Gen Z. If you'd like to learn more about Lauren, check out her book, Generation Anxiety or follow her on social media. Just visit us at livehappy.com, and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, you'll also find an article from Dr. Lauren, explaining why the world looks so different for Gen Z and how that's affecting them. We hope you enjoy this episode of Live Happy Now. If you aren't already receiving us every week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think of the show. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Podcast

Transcript – Create a Healthy Relationship with Social Media With Giselle Ugarte

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Create a Healthy Relationship with Social Media With Giselle Ugarte [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 470 of Live Happy Now. As we wrap up Mental Health Awareness Month, it's a great time to talk about something that many experts believe is contributing to the problem. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and this week I'm joined by coach, speaker, and influencer, Giselle Ugarte, who helps people learn how to build their confidence, reframe their relationship with social media, and show up more authentically at work and in their personal lives. Giselle has seen firsthand how learning to use social media more mindfully can help deepen relationships and improve self-confidence, and she's here to tell us how we can make the most of those social media moments. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:46] PF: Giselle, welcome to Live Happy Now. [0:00:49] GU: Hello. I'm so happy to be here. [0:00:51] PF: Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited to talk to you. We want to talk about mental health and social media, and that is a huge topic. We could talk all month about it. [0:00:59] GU: No kidding. That’s my department. [0:01:00] PF: Oh, my gosh. [0:01:01] GU: I'm glad to be here to talk about it. [0:01:03] PF: Yeah. So, to start the conversation, I really wanted to talk about how oftentimes, when we have this discussion about social media and mental health, we're talking about younger users. It's not just kids that it's affecting, it's affecting older adults as well, right? [0:01:18] GU: It's affecting all of us, honestly, because even if it isn't social media, you know, social media is a reflection of the way that we use technology, and even the way that we have notifications running so much of our lives. Where we worry so much about today's kids, the reality is, is that the kids are also reflecting the habits and also, the insecurities of adults. We're hearing a lot of commentary right now about how this is the most anxious generation, I would also then challenge to take a look at some of our older generations as well in the ways in which we might be addicted to work, or perhaps, validation, or people pleasing. I really just think that social media is a mirror, or perhaps, amplification of some of what actually and already has been happening for decades long before social media existed. The difference is that now we can carry it in our pockets and take it home with us even when we are all alone. There are some benefits of that too, because there's also the side of, well, but wait a minute, with social media, we never actually have to be alone. It's actually removing a lot of stigmas and we talk about Mental Health Awareness Month. I know that for me personally, someone who has dealt with anxiety and spells of deep depression and even PTSD, I've changed my relationship with alcohol over time. For me, social media has actually been where I've gone to for conversation, for confidence as I learned to embrace my body and what healthy looks like to me. Social media has been where I've been able to create conversations with people who I perhaps never would have met in real life. Or maybe it was chit chat at a party, but we started following each other and realized that we were both on this same path of wanting to better ourselves. Social media was where we were able to find that community. I'm really excited to go into this conversation and explore different angles. Most importantly, to discover where we are in control and how we can better have a better relationship with social media every day, no matter how old you are. [0:03:18] PF: Right. I think some of the people that have the healthiest relationship with it are the elderly. I have an aunt who's 87, and she uses Facebook. Now, granted, she's not what I would call tech savvy. But if it weren't for Facebook, then we would not be in touch. She's not someone that's going to pick up a phone. We're not going to be in touch. And we have a very large extended family. Because of that, she doesn't have children of her own, but she is in touch with all her nieces and nephews and reach out. She's going through a lot of health challenges right now. She is getting the support that she simply could not have if it weren't for social media. [0:03:55] GU: I like to say that if you're not taking your online relationships offline, then you're seriously missing out. Absolutely, it is one of those things where we're able to keep in touch with people who, maybe we wouldn't otherwise. I would also say, and that brings up a really awesome point too, is that sometimes I have friends who will say, “Well, if I didn't have social media, then my family would never see my kids, or they'd never keep in touch with us.” To which I go, “Wait, hold on a second. Have we now gotten to a point to where social media is the only way that you're keeping in touch with your family, versus now we have things like group text and FaceTime where we actually need to take that relationship to another level?” [0:04:39] PF: So, are you indicating this might be a problem? [0:04:42] GU: Well, no. I'm not. But we all have to really take a look at our online habits and why do we do the things that we do. You mentioned you have this friend who had health challenges. How awesome how, for example, you have people who might be having health challenges, or God forbid, they go through something really tragic, they can use social media as a way to update a lot of people that otherwise, energetically, they might not be able to, or physically able to do so. Or you're able to maybe donate to someone who is seriously in need and going through something really, really difficult and you're able to have that support, maybe even from people who you haven't talked to in a really long time. With every ounce of negative, there's positive with positive, there are more ways to do good and in person, but I simply want people to be more intentional about all of their habits online and especially off. [0:05:33] PF: I love the positive things that can come out of it. I love seeing the fundraisers that take place and just the sense of community that you can create when you are intentional about it. We know that it's also doing a lot of things to knock people's self-confidence. That's something that you've addressed very well. I wondered if you could talk a little bit about what kind of impact it can have on your self-confidence. [0:05:57] GU: Absolutely. Well, I want to go back even 10 or 20 years ago. We can go back even further than that. I know that right now, we're getting a lot of that conversation around the millennials and then Gen Xers who are saying that social media is horrible for confidence. To that, I say, hold on a second. Let's go back to a time when our only media was TV and magazines. There was one standard of beauty. She was one color and one size. She was usually a size zero, or double zero and her legs were a million miles long. Maybe you would see her in that magazine and perhaps, that's what she looked like naturally, or maybe they did start to doctor some of those images. You wouldn't even necessarily know, because the FTC was not what it is today. Now you log into social media, you can see beauty in every single shape and color and size and age and level of success in a way that we never have been before. That's where I want to challenge anyone who says, “Hold on. Social media is killing my confidence,” to go, what are you looking at? Because now, you have choices. Before, we didn't have choices. We only had a certain amount of channels and whatever magazines that you were subscribed to. You get to decide who you follow. Now our feeds are a direct reflection of us. If what you're seeing is making you feel bad about yourself for any way, then you really need to either get your head right, or get your feed right. Typically, I then hear the argument, “Oh, but comparison is the thief of joy.” Comparison is only the thief of joy when you're coming at it from a place of lack, when you yourself are unhappy. That's where I really want to challenge you. Again, get your head right, get your feed right. Start your day rooted and gratitude with what you are thankful for, with what you are proud of, with ways that you do see yourself as beautiful. Because otherwise, yeah, everything you see, you're going to project your insecurities on that. I want you to follow people who look exactly like you. I want you to follow people who look nothing like you. I want you to follow people who give you aspirational and inspirational goals and motivate you without making you feel less than. If everything is making you feel less than, then maybe it is time to perhaps pause, or close the apps, or unfollow, or mute, or maybe even block for a moment because that does happen. But the conversation is so much bigger than just a social media feed. It's also, when you're dropping the kids off at school and you're seeing all of the other parents around you. It's also, when you're opening up your phone and you don't like what you see, or you're looking in the mirror and you don't like what you see. To which I say, it's time to own it or change it. Own it. Or if you don't like what you see, then change it. Even if you decide to change it, you still have to own it in some way, shape, or form. What I instead see people have happened is they end up turning on filters, for example, or multiple filters, for example, and they say, “Oh. Well, I'm just putting makeup on with this filter. Oh, I'm just giving myself some a tan.” Well, hold on a second. Why does that filter make your face look like a totally different shape? Why is it putting somebody else's eyes on top of your eyes? Why have you just aged 20 years less? Why do your pores not exist? All of a sudden, what you're doing is on your phone, you're creating this image that isn't actually real. It's no wonder that when you look in the mirror, you hate what you see. [0:09:30] PF: Yeah. Can we talk about this a little bit more? Because I recently went through this. I saw a friend. I was just like, “Oh, my God. She looks amazing.” I was talking – we used to live in Dallas, this woman lives in Dallas. I was talking to some other friends in Dallas, I'm like, “She looks so great. What is she doing?” They're like, “Filters, Paula. It's a filter.” I was like, “Oh, man.” What does that do to our psychology and our psyche when we are presenting ourselves one way, but that's not who we really are? How does that affect us? [0:10:03] GU: Absolutely. What it’s doing is it’s telling your brain that you don't think that you're good enough. For me personally, I believe things like makeup and fashion are actually a form of self-expression. Sometimes they can be disguises and armor, and that's fine, but the difference between a filter and say, filler, the injectable, is the filler goes with you, the filter does not. [0:10:27] PF: Right. [0:10:28] GU: My conversation and my expertise is purely around the use of technology and social media. The conversation around plastic surgery and makeup, that's something different entirely. Again, the difference is the filler will go with you. The filter does not. When you then look in the mirror at night, or when you look in somebody else's camera, or when your child takes a photo of you and you don't like what you see, a lot of that is because what you are lying to yourself doing. What I find to be so interesting is that a lot of my clients, I have a rule, no filters. No filters on Zoom. No filters on social media. To remove that filter. What's so interesting is how every single person, every single time, well, first of all, there's the resistance, which if it's not that deep, Giselle, if it's not that serious, Giselle, then why is it so hard for you to do? Why is it so hard? Once they actually remove it, what's so wild is the way that they begin to realize other ways that they've been creating filters in their life. Because you might even be thinking, “Well, Giselle, I don't even use filter,” which congratulations, you are miles and light years ahead in the confidence game. Where might you be hiding, or where might you perhaps be creating that highlight reel? Because I believe that there is this highlight reel of perfection that we are seeing, but oftentimes, the ones who are only seeing the highlight reel, you're also the one who's creating it, too. I believe that your highlight reel is actually comprised of the highs and the lows of the in-between moments. You can have your best day and your worst day on the same day. It's so important that we recognize that what we're seeing is just a fraction of someone's life. I hate when people say, social media is fake. Are there people online who are fake? Yes. Are there people who are in real life fake? Also, yes. The question is, is it actually fake, or is it just that you are creating a judgment on a single second of time? In that single second of time, it's possible that that family was happy and smiling and in the next second, it's possible that they were fighting. We've all had those days and those vacations where you were at screaming each other the whole time. Does that mean that you don't love each other? No. If somebody posts a picture of their happy family and then announces the next week that they're getting a divorce, does that mean that they were being fake? Or was she just doing her best on that particular day? You can have your best day and your worst day on the same day. That's part of the mental health acceptance that I want people to understand is that no, social media isn't fake. I actually think we were talking about, what does your mind tell yourself? When we say things like that, we're actually canceling ourselves out for achieving that thing ourselves. We're believing that, “Oh, that type of happiness can't be achieved. Oh, that type of family can't be achieved. Oh, that type of success can't be achieved,” because of the ways that we're knocking it from someone else, or we're trying to chip it away somehow. I wouldn't even realize the ways in which that too is also her bringing out confidence by saying, “Oh, you don't deserve that. Oh, you'll never have that.” Versus, “You know what? Good for her. You know what? Good for him.” [MESSAGE] [0:13:43] PF: We'll be right back with Giselle Ugarte. But right now, let's take a quick break to talk about clothing from Franne Golde. If you're hitting the road this summer, you'll want to check out this amazing line of wrinkle-free staples that you can dress up or down depending on the occasion. They're the perfect traveling companion, because they're flattering, comfortable, and were created by a Grammy-winning musician who knows the importance of looking good on the road. See for yourself at frannegolde.com/podcast and you can get 20% off your first order of $75 or more when you use the code HAPPY. That's F-R-A-N-N-E-G-O-L-D-E.com/podcast for 20% off your order of $75 or more with the code HAPPY. Now, let's get back to my talk with Giselle to learn more about how we can use social media more intentionally to improve our mental health. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [0:14:39] PF: If you start creating a practice where you do that, or you intentionally tell yourself, “I'm going to congratulate in my head, each person who celebrates something on Facebook.” Will that make a difference? Or you're saying like, you're cheering them on, whereas before, you might have been sitting there judging a little bit. [0:14:58] GU: I honestly believe it does, and I love how you said practice. Or maybe you didn't say it, but I heard it. But we do have to practice being happy for other people. I do believe that when we do that, it will come back in a form of gratitude for ourselves. It might feel sweet irony, a little fake and uncomfortable when you're forcing yourself to do that, but you're doing it for the goodness of your mind and perhaps, to melt away at your cold heart. It's gotten bitter over the years. Because let's just think about that for a moment. If you can't be happy for someone on their happiest day, whether it's their wedding, or their kid’s graduation, or they just got a new job, or they just bought a new house, or they moved, and your first instinct is, “Oh, must be nice. Oh, well, that's great that her husband got that or, oh, well, yeah, it must be easy for her to lose the weight.” Let's think about, hold on, where is that coming from? Where is the projected self-loathing frankly coming from? Where you decided to rule yourself out from that, or you became so bitter and nasty? We wouldn't want someone to be like that towards us on our day. Why are we doing that to them? Yes. Rather than just liking or continuing to scroll, something that I have also noticed with my clients is I always give them an assignment to turn passive scrolling into an actively engaged activity. Again, whenever we're scrolling, sometimes we're scrolling to numb, or we're scrolling because we want to be numb. We're just scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, not even paying attention, no concept of time. Maybe every now and then, we'll hit a like, or we'll double tap. I will give my clients the assignment of every time you open up the refrigerator, that is your social media, I want you to engage. If you see something, maybe it's someone you know, maybe they just accomplished something, or maybe they did something really difficult, or they shared something very vulnerable, rather than just to double tap something, write something, comment to them. Not just a little emoji, or a heart, but acknowledge it in a meaningful way. “Oh, my gosh, that's so exciting. I know how hard you have been working on that marathon. Oh, my gosh, you finally did it. I remember you talking about this years ago. Now you're finally learning how to ballroom dance. That's so awesome.” One more way that I've noticed my clients who were anxiously sometimes opening up that empty refrigerator that can be social media sometimes, all of a sudden going, “I think I got my fix.” They're not opening it up as often, because they were able to feel as if they did something productive. Whereas before, sometimes we open it up mindlessly hoping for that dopamine hit. Instead, they created their own dopamine hit by finding gratitude and happiness and celebration for someone, or something else. Then they end up putting their phone away. It makes sense if you think about it, don't you think? [0:18:13] PF: I love that. I love it, because we've all had that practice where we're like, just scrolling through there. It's like, there's nothing here. We hit refresh. Hoping better things will show up in our feed. If you think about it, these are people sharing their stories, however genuine or heartfelt they might be at that time. All we're doing is like, “Eh, that's not quite enough to keep me engaged.” Which is pretty crappy, because if they called you and said, “Hey, this happened,” you wouldn't be just like, “Mm. Call me back when you have something better.” [0:18:42] GU: Right. Or you would just ignore them completely from answering the phone. [0:18:47] PF: Right. I love that. What other tips do you have for being more mindful as you use social media, instead of being used by it? [0:18:54] GU: I love that you said that, because it's a phrase that I use very often, which is, is social media running you, or are you running your social media? The number one thing that I tell all of my clients is turn off your notifications, all of them, the likes, the comments, the DMs. The only time that I ever have notifications on for social media is if I'm specifically waiting for a message from someone who maybe doesn't have my phone number. It might be Facebook Marketplace, for example, or it might be my primary inbox on Instagram. It will be temporary. Only when that person really needs to get a hold of me, and they don't have my phone number. Otherwise, everything is turned completely off. When I'm checking my notifications, it's because I'm in control of it. I sometimes even take it a step further from my clients and I say, no email on your phone. No email on your phone, which sounds terrifying for so many people. What that ends up doing is oftentimes, whenever we get that email notification, even if it's from work, all of a sudden, that becomes the most important thing. [0:20:00] PF: Right. [0:20:01] GU: You will interrupt, disrupt whatever conversation, dinner, errand, or other important tasks that you were doing. It ends up actually taking up a lot of time for where you thought it only took five or 15 seconds, it maybe took 15 minutes. Or you ended up having to start that task that you were working on over again, or start that conversation over again. What ends up happening is if you take your email off of your phone, when you do your email at your desk, at your computer, you become more intentional and focused. Then you put your phone on do not disturb with the notifications turned off, and you have that time specifically to respond to whatever requests and clients that you need to get to as many times a day as you need. Hopefully, it's no more than maybe two to four times a day, versus every single 15 minutes of every single hour of every single day. [0:20:47] PF: Yeah. You start feeling yanked around. It's just like, I'm doing this, but then I just get pulled over here. One thing I've started doing is I don't even turn my phone on until after I eat breakfast, which a lot happens from the time I get up until after I eat breakfast. it was very difficult at first, because it's always like, “Okay, what work? What do my clients have? What do I need to do?” To be able to just breathe and say, nothing that that has to be done in the next two hours. It doesn't have to be done before 8.30 AM. Just enjoy life a little bit. [0:21:20] GU: That's absolutely one way to do it and determining what actually needs notifications, what actually needs sounds, what actually needs the flags and then visuals. I mean, some of you just have that default, everything has notification. When was the last time you really took the time to go, “What notifications are turned on? Which ones can I turn off?” Because I am someone who I do check my phone first thing in the morning. For me, it's a healthy experience. I have a healthy relationship with my phone. I want to make sure everyone is good. That doesn't mean that I'm then replying back to everybody. It does give me a sanity to be able to just unlock my phone, is everything good? No one's on fire. No one's in the hospital. Great. Now I can begin. Or I might use that as my inspiration and motivation, because when I do open up my feed, I see people who inspire me. I see things that motivate me, or I have my affirmation or my Bible versus that get me going on that particular day. I am in control of it. It's not in control of me. notifications, that is the biggest one. I even find sometimes that people feel they're going through withdrawals. Where because their phone isn't buzzing constantly, they then are flipping their phone over constantly. [0:22:32] PF: Really? [0:22:33] GU: Yes. That's where we sometimes have to take it a step further and go, okay, well, do we then have to have the phone in a different room? Because if you can't go to the bathroom, or sit in an elevator, or wait in a line without looking at your phone, we might need to check ourselves with where is that coming from? Where it's coming from is typically, validation, need for validation, or it might be an unhealthy relationship that you have with your job, or your boss, or your superiors, or your clients where you have no boundaries, whatsoever. That's also where we run into lack of confidence, because you are then running in this people pleasing loop, where you're constantly seeking the attention of other people, and/or how often have we gotten to the end of the day and it feels like we haven't done anything, because the whole day has been reactive. You're answering the email, answering the phone, answering the client, and never did you prioritize what you needed to do for yourself. That's also where I established a practice of making sure that somewhere in your day, you do have calendared in a phone-free section of time. Also, in your day, you do have calendared in the three most important things that you need to do today. You're three non-negotiables that you need to do today. Because where a lack of confidence also comes from is a lack of productivity, or feeling lazy, or feeling like you amount to nothing, or can't do very much. Even if you are going through a season of burnout, for you, the three most productive things that you might do might be going for a walk, might be taking a nap, might be writing in your journal. That might also be your unplugged moment of meditation. Having time that's carved out specifically and only for you, and not tied to your electronics. Those are little ways that if we keep those commitments to ourselves, we can also build off of confidence and also get rid of some of those addictions that we didn't even realize, “Oh, my gosh. Not only is my social media running me, but I am a slave to it. I didn't even realize.” [0:24:45] PF: Right. [0:24:46] GU: My gosh. If that's you, you can also set screen limits on your phone. That's where you can put time limits for your screen time, or time limits for specific apps. I have a social media screen time limit, so I actually just clump all of my social media apps together in that. Then I'll have the phone say, “Hey, you've hit your limit, or you have 15 minutes left.” Will I extend it? Yeah, I will sometimes. I totally will. At least I'm then becoming more aware versus not having anything at all. Or sometimes I might have it password protected if I need to, or if I'm feeling easily distracted. That's one more way that I'm able to stay focused and still make sure that I have control over my apps. Those are a few ways to get started, but I'm sure we could go on and on and on, but those are at least a couple places to keep going. [0:25:35] PF: That is such great advice. I wondered, you've worked with so many people. What changes have you seen in their wellbeing, in their – I know you're not a mental health professional, but you do see people and deal with their mental health struggles. What changes do you see in their wellbeing and mental health when they start implementing these practices? [0:25:56] GU: Yeah, and that's the thing too, is that I'm a certified high-performance coach. I work on confidence and clarity and time management and energy. At the root of it, it's a lot of those things. I see that people are better at managing their time, because of some of the simple ways in which they end up not having that same relationship with technology. I see confidence soar. Even taking it to the next level, one little productive thing that you can do is change your profile picture to your face and make sure that that face actually looks like you. When you have a face attached to your name, it makes your social media that much more personal. Also, when you can finally embrace what you look like now, versus maybe a headshot that you took before the pandemic, where we've all aged 20 years since. Things like that, it brings that relationship back. When we're engaging more, or even sharing more of ourselves, we see confidence go up, because you feel confident in your voice and that what you have to say matters. I actually see a lot of my clients feeling more comfortable, public speaking, or engaging in conversations, because of how they're active on social media. Setting boundaries. When we set screen time limits, or when we delete emails from our phone, or set our phone to do not disturb, or maybe we let our clients know that, “Hey, I don't take work calls after three,” those are things that we're doing as technological habits. I also see that crossover into other habits and boundaries and relationships as well. It's tiny little micro ways that we don't even realize we're taking our power back, that it starts showing up in every single area of your life. That's why I get really passionate about it, because where we can be so quick to blame social media and us as the victim, the reality is, is that you have a lot more power than you think. As soon as you start to slowly take that power back, it really does snowball into something so bigger, and you start to see the ways in which it's showing up in other areas, too. [0:27:53] PF: I love it. Giselle, that is a great way to wrap this up. You have so much to teach us. We are going to tell our listeners how they can find you. See, continue teaching us and we can keep learning from you. Thank you. Thank you so much for sitting down and talking to me about this today. [0:28:08] GU: Thank you. I love talking about it. My messaging, my inboxes are always open. If you found this conversation helpful, please, I would love to hear from you. Don't be passive. Send me a message, letting me know what you love most about this conversation. [0:28:22] PF: Thank you so much. [0:28:23] GU: Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:28:28] PF: That was Giselle Ugarte, talking about how to use social media to support our mental health. If you'd like to learn more about Giselle and the work she's doing, or follow her on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Live Happy Now, and if you aren't already receiving us every week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think of the show. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Podcast

Create a Healthy Relationship with Social Media With Giselle Ugarte

As we wrap up Mental Health Awareness month, it’s a great time to talk about how social media affects mental health — and how you can use it to support a happier, more meaningful life. Host Paula Felps is joined by coach, speaker and influencer Giselle Ugarte, who helps people learn how to build their confidence, reframe their relationship with social media, and show up more authentically at work and in their relationships. In this episode, you'll learn: How to use social media for positive interactions and deepening your relationships. Signs that social media may be having a negative effect on you and what to do about it. How to curate your social media feed so it will have a positive impact on your self-esteem and self-confidence. Links and Resources: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/giselleugarte/ Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/giselleugarte Twitter: https://twitter.com/giselleugarte?lang=en Youtube: https://youtube.com/@Giselle.Ugarte Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@giselle.ugarte Website: https://www.giselleugarte.com/ Follow along with this episode's transcript by clicking here. Don't Miss a Minute of Happiness! If you’re not subscribed to the weekly Live Happy newsletter, you’re missing out! Sign up to discover new articles and research on happiness, the latest podcast, special offers from sponsors, and even a happy song of the week. Subscribe for free today! Don't miss an episode! Live Happy Now is available at the following places:

Podcast

Transcript – Supporting Mental Health Through Music With Brandon Staglin

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Supporting Mental Health Through Music With Brandon Staglin [INTRO] [00:00:04] PF: What’s up, everybody? This is Paula Felps, and you are listening to On a Positive Note. We've talked about how music can boost our mood and even help our bodies heal. Today, we're looking at what it can do for our mental health. For this episode, I'm talking with Brandon Staglin, co-founder and president of One Mind, a mental health nonprofit organization committed to improving brain health by supporting research and providing resources. Central to their mission is music, which Brandon explains has been an incredible healing tool in his own struggle with mental illness. He's here to talk about the One Mind music festival for brain health, and how that has helped build awareness for their mental health mission, and how he uses it for healing and connection in his own life. Let's have a listen. [EPISODE] [0:00:51] PF: Brandon, thank you for joining me on On a Positive Note. [0:00:54] BS: Thank you, Paula. So much happy to be On a Positive Note, and it's a great day to talk about music and mental health. [0:01:00] PF: And you're a fantastic person to talk to about this subject. I've been following One Mind for a while. The work that you do is absolutely amazing. For those who haven't been following you, let's start by talking about what one mind is and what it does. [0:01:15] BS: One Mind is an organization that started 30 years ago, and it was founded by my family. My family founded One Mind, thanks to our shared experience with my schizophrenia diagnosis and recovery. I was diagnosed when I was 18 years old, back in 1990. It was an incredibly scary and dark time in my life, and in that of my whole family. There was a stretch of about a year when we didn't really know whether there would be any positive future for me at all. I was terrified that at any moment, I might go straight to hell, like I had this delusion in my mind that demons were after my soul, and that if I made any slight moral mistake, they pounce on me, and drive me off to hell for all eternity. It's just a terrifying thing to think every moment of every day, if you can imagine that. That drove me to exhaustion, and despair. Even though I was getting treatment for my mental illness, it wasn't working very well for the first six months. There were moments when I was so depressed that I felt suicidal, and moments where I seriously considering ending my life. Fortunately, I'm very grateful to be alive today. What saw me through those really dark times were three main factors in the beginning. One of them was the unconditional love of my family. They made sure I knew how deeply they loved me by telling me so in ways that reached me. There was a moment when I was shuffling around the house, just so dark, just so down, and depressed. My dad saw me there in the kitchen. He said, "There's a lot of love coming from here, Brandon." Even though I had not, I couldn't feel the love back at that moment. I wanted to feel that love again. That drove me to want to recover again, to be able to feel that love again for my family back with them again. That was a major factor in driving me to continue to work for getting well again. Then, other factors included a sense of purpose through staying involved with community activities, and volunteering, and education while I was recovering. As well as, early science-based medical care. From those experiences, I've learned principles that love is an important factor for life. That curiosity is also an important driver of motivation for people, and can lead to discoveries that can help people out there in the community. And that having a sense of purpose is essential to drive people forward toward recovery and toward a good life. Based on all we've learned through my experience in schizophrenia, my parents decided to found One Mind in 1995. They started out with the realization, learning from me, and from other families around us who had experienced similar challenges with our young ones. That the science was not up to par in terms of its ability to enable people to access treatments that were helpful for them in a way that would help them to get all the way to recovery. I was taking medications at the time that were somewhat helpful. But as I mentioned, they had not the full effect that I wanted, had terrible side effects. My parents realized, and now it's an important part of One Mind that precision medicine be a part of mental health care. Meaning that, science must develop ways to develop treatments that can help people right from their diagnosis, right in the very beginning of their illness. And not have to go through months and years of trial and error, and agony for finding something that could help them recover again. That was how we started One Mind. The very first event we had ever in 1995 called the Music Festival for Brain Health, and that's how music comes into play here in the conversation. [0:05:00] PF: I'm really curious to know why they built it around music, because you and I know now that that's such a natural tool for healing and for bringing people together. Wat was their thinking behind using music as the central focus of that event? [0:05:15] BS: The music festival was launched in 1995, with the intent that music could bring people together, as you say, in a way that transcends inhibitions, that transcends fears, and then brings people to have a deeper pour for each other, and love for each other in the moment, celebrating together. We call the music festival a celebration of life. Ever since the beginning, it's been like that. I remember in 2001, when September 11th happened in the United States. There was a lot of trepidation about whether we could put on the music festival. It was just days after that took place. But we did, we were able to get conductor to come, and orchestra to come. They played Ode to Joy during the music concert of that event, people were in tears. The conductor was just so overwhelmed by the response that he just – we have a photograph that he gave my mom this enthusiastic hug, and just the embrace was just great to see. But that's an example of how music can bring people together, and transcend fears, and overcome barriers to connection. Then, we make that a hallmark at the festival today. Basically, I make sure that everyone understands when they come to the festival, that it's a safe place to open up to each other about the challenges that they're facing with their mental health, and their families, and open place to talk about and share those experiences with each other. [0:06:45] PF: What else goes on? You have a concert, but you have events leading up to the concert as well throughout the day. Can you talk about the other things that happen before the music? [0:06:54] BS: Absolutely. It's a really special event, the music festival for brain health. It starts today with a science and innovation symposium, where we have the scientists who we fund, and support give talks about the amazing discoveries they're making. Every year, they come out with something new that blows me away, and really thrills the audience to know that these nutrients are coming down the line to help them and their families. We added on a component in the last year, in 2023 of innovation as well. We have a program called the One Line Rising Star Awards, which enables young, promising mental health scientists to make these discoveries toward better treatments, by giving them funding, and by giving them leadership training, so that they can grow their careers as influencers for better mental health research. And improve the field in ways that reflect the interests of people like me, like people, so many people out community who live with mental illness, and work to improve their lives. The other program that we offer through a science and innovation division at One Mind is called The One Mind Accelerator. Through this program, we help entrepreneurs who are taking some of the discoveries, like those our scientists have made, and turning them into products, and services, that can then be commercialized and scale to reach people all throughout our society. This is a kind of an outgrowth, our focus on science toward innovation. So, it's been a very successful 30 years of doing these programs now together. We've made some great breakthroughs, including ways to treat mental illness with electricity that are safe and actually remedy the symptoms using brain stimulation, including microbiome-based treatments for mental illness. Like what happens in your gut, the bacteria in your gut to treat depression, for example, and including peer support models for young people facing suicidality. Happy to expand more if you're interested later on. The gist of it is that, the scientists and innovators speak during the symposium of the music festival. That gives the audience so much hope to know that these innovations are coming down the line to help them and their families. [0:09:13] PF: Who's likely to attend the festival? [0:09:15] BS: Well, because the festival includes not only the science innovation symposium, but also, the most amazing wine tasting anywhere. [0:09:24] PF: Yes, you got three different – I feel like you have three different audiences for this. [0:09:28] BS: Yes. The festival goes like this. It includes the science innovation symposium, the wine tasting reception, following symposium. Then, there's the concert, which is kind of the highlight of the day. Then, there's the exclusive dinner up at my parent's home, at the top of our vineyard property in Napa Valley, which is where it takes place. That combination of events is something that really revs people up to be excited about the future for mental health and their families. Because it's a fundraiser, it helps them want to donate to support cause. Those are the four parts of the event. The kind of people coming would mainly include people with lived experience in their families of mental illness. So, families that have got young people, or brothers, or sisters who live with schizophrenia, who live with bipolar disorder, who live with major depression, eating disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder. We aim to help them have that sense of community at the festival, so they have that common bond, and reveling each other's company as well as in the events taking place. [0:10:35] PF: Let's talk about the music component of it and how that's really grown. When you first started, what kind of artists were you bringing in? Because you've got some – you have some very impressive lineups in the last few years. Talk about, when it first started, what was that like? [0:10:48] BS: Yes. We started out with orchestras playing, and we had celebrity conductors, conducting the orchestras. First year, we had Richard Williams, and another year, we had Ben Zander of the Boston Philharmonic, very charismatic conductor, who wrote a book called, The Art of Possibility. He's the one who conducted during the post September 11th festival that we had. Then, we evolved into jazz. We had Ramsay Lewis and his trio play. Then, we evolved into pop, and country, and R&B. Had artists like Gladys Knight, Brian Wilson performed, who was amazing. He totally brought it, he did it for no cost for us, because he believed in what we're doing. Then, we found artists like Jennifer Hudson, we had Tim McGraw, Sheryl Crow, and Lyle Lovett, and Jewel more recently. There's some really great stories about these artists and how they've been part of the festival. [0:11:42] PF: I know Jewel. I saw a lot of posts and things that she said about this, wrote about this. I would love to hear their experiences, because it's touching to me that there are so many artists are being so open about mental health, and how music has helped them. [0:11:57] BS: Yes. It's great to know that artists are being open about that, because it lets people know it's safe for them to talk about it too. These are role models for so many people, or at least people that feel close to through the music that they produce, and that they hear. So, yes, Jewel is actually a One Mind champion. She's an official ambassador for One Mind. We've worked with her for a few years now. She performed in 2022, as well as in 2014, so twice for us over the years. [0:12:24] PF: Wow. [0:12:24] BS: Yes. Had her back. She's just so great. She's been very open about her experiences, mental illness, and that's inspired a lot of people to know that recovery is possible for them to other artists who stood out, include Lyle Lovett, who lent me his guitar to play a song that I wrote about recovery from schizophrenia. That's a cause that is very dear to my heart to help people recovery is possible even from serious mental illness. There's still amazing things you can do left in life after recovery, during recovery. That song is called Horizons Left to Chase, and it's available on YouTube. When he lent me his guitar, like he was handing it to me like it's a baby or something. It was very gently, and making sure that I held it carefully. And I had it, and I say, "Okay. Well, here we go." I played it, and played my song. He listened very intently to the song like he was very interested. But people loved hearing the song too, which really gratified me. [0:13:19] PF: You have artists who perform who have talked openly about their struggles with mental health. Then, you have others who are just supportive of the mission. Is that correct? [0:13:28] BS: Yes. Yes, that's right. When Jennifer Hudson performed, she spoke a lot about her family's experiences with mental health. When Tim McGraw performed, he also supports brain injury, causes, and One Mind was involved in Brain Injury Research at that time. He was deeply involved in that. So many of the artists that I featured on brainwaves, that webcasts that I hosted for about 11 years were very open about their experiences with mental health, and mental illness. Artists deal with a lot of challenges with their mental health, and music is a way to kind of process those. I've personally discovered those experiences with music. [0:14:04] PF: That's what I'd really like to talk about, is how does music help people who are struggling with mental health. And if you have your own experiences that you can give us examples, that'd be fantastic. [0:14:14] BS: Yes, I'd love to do that. When I was about 35, it was about 17 years after I was initially diagnosed. I was into my recovery, but not fully well yet. I wasn't very socially adept, and so I didn't have a lot of friends or social connections that I could turn to for support, or just have fun with. So, I realized that if I learned to play guitar, I'd have a hobby that would be something that connect me to other people, as well as be something that I could really enjoy on my own. I took up guitar lessons that year, that was about quite a while ago, almost 20 years ago. I began to practice, and I found that playing guitar offers me amazing benefits. Not only is it a lot of fun, but it also helps me to focus, and to understand that I can feel real emotions. When people live with schizophrenia, we take medication so often, dampen our emotions due to the dopamine effects in the brain. The illness can have that effect to for people. Feeling the genuine emotions that the music brings out in me, is something that reconnects me to more parts of myself and makes me feel more whole as a human being, and a more spiritually full. Then, also the mastery aspect, like getting better at a practice is something that I love to engage in. It gives me a sense of humility to see how I'm not that adept yet at playing guitar, but I want to be better. So, it's a driving force for motivation in my life. [0:15:52] PF: Then, physically, it has so many great benefits too, because when you're playing and you sync with a rhythm, and you start, it has so many different physiological effects that you can benefit from as well. [0:16:05] BS: Yes. Just hearing the strings ring out when I'm tuning the guitar, focuses my mind, my attention, and it calms me down. I'm reading a book now called Your Brain on Art by Susan Magsamen and Ivy Ross. It was published last year, it's a New York Times bestseller, and it features my story in it, and how I've used music for my recovery. Susan Magsamen, who's the head of the International Arts and Minds Labs at Johns Hopkins University interviewed me year before and put my story in the book. But she talks about how music does affect the brain in the body, and how it can lower cortisol release, which is a stress hormone. It can put your body into a parasympathetic nervous system framework, so that you calm down and it aids your sleep. I experienced that too. I sleep so much better if I play guitar recently. It also brings in together so many different aspects of brain activity in sync with each other. That can kind of account for the experience I have of feeling more like a whole person after I play music, I think. [0:17:10] PF: Now, what about if you're just listening to music. Because I am a big proponent of playlists. I have a playlist for every mood, everything that can possibly happen in my life, I've got a playlist. I go to a playlist for it. How about that? Do you use recorded music as a way to manage emotions and regulate yourself? [0:17:28] BS: Yes, I do. I do. I really do. Like every morning when I'm driving to work or driving home from work, I put out some music to start the day well with things that are meaningful to me. Like songs that I really love, and bring me a sense of peace or inspiration. Many years ago, when I was first ill with schizophrenia, it was immensely beneficial to listen to my favorite songs that helped me to refocus on the moment and stopped associating into the psychosis that would be creeping up on me from time to time. Listening to music has been really something part of my life for like my entire life. It's a touchstone for me that helps me to cope and feel good. [0:18:08] PF: What are some of the things that musicians that you've talked with that perform at your festival? What are some of the ways that they say that it's helped their mental health? [0:18:17] BS: The musicians who perform the festivals, I haven't talked to them directly about how music benefits mental health, except for Jewel. She and I, during the dinner portion of the Music Festival event, in 2022, sat together at the dinner. So, I had a long conversation with her. For her, music has been a double-edged sword, it helps her to work through the challenges and experiences in her life, by articulating them, and kind of processing them through that lens of seeing them out there as a creation. But the thing that has come with her music is something that she wants to not have too much of, because fame can change people's perceptions of themselves, of the world around them, of reality. It can also impact your private life in so many ways. She has changed her genres many times throughout her career, and I really respect that she does this as a means to [inaudible 0:19:13] to be creative and create the kind of music that she wants to, and that's innovative for her, and brings her a sense of fulfillment, but keeps her fans guessing and on their toes at the same time. I have followed her throughout her career ever since the early 2000s, and all of her albums, even though she's been very multifaceted and eclectic in the genres that she's used. [0:19:33] PF: Yes. I had read an interview with her, where she said that she had intentionally stepped away right after she hit big, and she knew that this could be – it would be phenomenal for her career, but it can be very damaging for her mental health. So, she took a step back. I thought that was so wise and insightful for her to recognize what that could do to her. An artist, you're there to get famous, you're there to have a living you, and to have that right in front of you, and to be able to say, "But my mental health is more important," it's just absolutely incredible. [0:20:05] BS: Yes. It's incredibly wise to do it, like you say, and she has a song called Goodbye Alice in Wonderland on her album of the same name. She talks about in the song, in the lyrics that there's a difference between dreaming and pretending. She's found in her life through the fame that she's found that she doesn't want to pretend anymore. She wants to live a genuine life, and that's why she's leaving Wonderland, so to speak in the song. [0:20:32] PF: That's fantastic. There's so much good that comes out of music. One mind is doing so much good to help bridge music and mental health. For the people who are listening to this, if they have a family member who has recently been diagnosed, and things are becoming clearer, or if they have been living with this for a while, what is the thing that you want them to know about the journey that they're on? [0:20:57] BS: Yes. They should know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, that recovery is possible, even from the most serious of mental illnesses. That if you love somebody who's living with mental illness, you should also know that they're still them, even though they may not seem like them. Medication can change people's personalities, so can the illness. But deep inside, they're still who they who you've always known. And they can live a full and meaningful life again, if you continue to love and support them and access treatment that can help them. [0:21:29] PF: That's terrific, Brandon, we're going to tell everybody where they can find out more about the One Mind Music Festival. [0:21:35] BS: It's the One Mind Music Festival for Brain Health. This year, it's our 30th anniversary event. It's on September 7th 2024. We invite people to check out our website at music-festival.org to learn more about that wonderful event. [0:21:49] PF: All right, that is terrific. I appreciate you sitting down and talking with me today. It's been a pleasure to talk to you. Like I said, I've been following you for a while. It really is an honor to be able to chat with you about it. [0:21:59] BS: Thanks, Paula. It's great to talk to you too. I love your podcast and it's been great to be on. Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:22:07] PF: That was Brandon Staglin of One Mind, talking about music and mental health. If you'd like to learn more about One Mind, or the one Mind Music Festival for Brain Health, explore some of their resources, or follow them on social media, just visit livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of On a Positive Note and look forward to joining you again next time. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

A man and woman talking to one another while sitting on couches.

Podcast

Transcript – Changing the Conversation on Mental Illness with Patrick J. Kennedy

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Changing the Conversation on Mental Illness with Patrick J. Kennedy [INTRODUCTION] [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 469 of Live Happy Now. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and today's guest reminds us that we can't just be aware of the problem. We need to take action. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm joined by mental health advocate Patrick J. Kennedy, whose new book, Profiles in Mental Health Courage, shares the dramatic stories of people who are living with mental illness. Because of his own challenges with mental illness and addiction, the former congressman is on a mission to change how we view mental illness in this country and, importantly, change the way we treat it. His bold plan for the future of mental health includes bipartisan action to identify, treat, and manage conditions earlier to enrich the lives of all those affected. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:54] PF: Patrick, thank you for joining me on Live Happy Now. [00:00:56] PK: Paula, it's good to be with you. [00:00:58] PF: Well, this is Mental Health Awareness Month, a fantastic time to talk to you. I'm so impressed because you have been very open with your own mental health and addiction struggles. So I wondered what led you to initially disclose all that. [00:01:12] PK: Well, I didn't really have a choice. Being a Kennedy and in the public eye, I tried to keep my addiction secret as all of us try to do because of the shame and stigma. But I had a roommate in drug rehab who sold his story of being in rehab with me, with a Kennedy, back when I was starting my political career. Of course, I thought my political career would be short-lived after that disclosure. But I was fortunate to represent a district in Rhode Island. My constituency, the only thing they disliked more than drug addicts were people who ratted on drug addicts. I survived that election, and then I went on to Congress. Because I had been outed, I was able to put my name on mental health bills, whereas my colleagues might have been more reticent because it was already out. I wasn't afraid like most of my colleagues would have been to be asked, “Well, why is this something you're signing on to? Does it perhaps maybe – do you have a mental illness or addiction?” Of course, most of my political colleagues don't want to go down that rabbit hole. But I had already been out it, so it was less of a risk for me, obviously. [00:02:30] PF: Being part of such a high-profile family, obviously, that was why your roommate from rehab wanted to sell the story because it had a net worth to it. But what was that like then for the extended family? Because most families – I'm not a scientist. I won't say all, but I would say most families have an issue of mental illness and addiction somewhere in their family. But they work very hard to keep that quiet. For it to come out in such a public family, how did that play out? [00:03:00] PK: Well, power of the silence and the stigma is so overwhelming. My family was well-known to suffer from addiction. They say addiction, alcoholism runs in families. In my family, it galloped. It was just serious, and everyone knew it but us. There was – if you went through the Kennedy section of the bookstore, two-thirds of the books would have been covering the various “scandals” that my family, my father, my mother had been through because of a direct result of their alcoholism. Yes, the problem with me coming out is that it kind of added to that narrative. I felt shamed by it because I grew up with a mother who was shamed because of her alcoholism. I would literally try to hide her when my friends’ parents would come over to pick up my friends from our house. I'd be trying to hide my mother because I didn't want any of them to see her inebriated in the middle of the day. I used to watch Saturday Night Live, and they'd do skits about my dad. I mean, it was really powerfully painful. I mean, being open about it now is kind of a way I fight against that shame which still exists. I can't help but cringe when I have to talk about this to some extent. But I find that it's therapeutic because this is a brain illness. No one wakes up, Paula, and tries to shame themselves, their family. Put their own physical lives at risk, become potentially at risk for being arrested. People don't choose to live on the streets. They don't choose to have untreated mental illness and end up in our criminal justice system. I mean, we still have not turned the corner to really understanding that these “behaviors” of people with brain illnesses are symptoms, and they're not reflections on a person's moral character. Now, being in recovery myself, I have a moral responsibility to do everything I can to keep myself from falling back into addiction. I attend 12-step meetings. I have addiction-certified psychiatrist. I worked the program, as they say. I have a moral obligation because if I drink or drug, I put not only my own life at risk. I put others at risk. I had three DWIs, and I'm – by God's grace, no one was injured. But I can't take that chance again and none the least of which I just don't want to go down that path again. I'm so grateful I have the life that I have today. [00:05:55] PF: Do you think it's more impactful because you are in a position of being able to – people will listen to you. You're in a higher-level position. Do you think it makes it more impactful, your story is more impactful, and that it feels more universal to others if you can be open about it? [00:06:12] PK: Well, when I came back from one of the DWIs and I had to go to rehab, I was asked to come and meet with so many of my congressional colleagues in Congress who I thought wanted to talk to me about legislation. Of course, I'd show up with my staff because the staff do majority of the work in Congress. My colleagues would always say, “Could you and I just talk?” Then they would tell me their own stories. [00:06:39] PF: Oh, wow. [00:06:39] PK: It occurred to me that I was the only person they knew in Congress that has a drug addiction and alcoholism. What was amazing to me is because of the anonymity and the shame of these illnesses, they knew no one else that they were working with who also shared their own illness except for me. I met with colleagues who none of them knew each other had these illnesses, and they would walk around in the halls of Congress not knowing they were walking by someone who had similar life experiences they had and were suffering from similar struggles. I wrote this Profiles in Mental Health Courage because it's still a big deal for people to share their stories. As I said, I didn't choose to do this, but these people who are in my new book, they chose to use their real names and their real stories to try to break the stigma. Unlike a lot of these self-disclosures, these people really told it all. Today, you hear a lot of people say, “Oh, I have a diagnosis,” or, “I'm in recovery.” But they don't really describe what it's like to live with these illnesses. Yet in this book, these 12 people really tell their full experience. It's a very diverse group of people who have different illnesses. I hope it's going to be helpful to people who may think of themselves as being unique and all alone. In 12-step recovery, we have some big book, and we get to read about others who also like us have had these experiences suffering from alcoholism and addiction. I have found those so comforting reading these stories because then I realized I'm not alone. Yet most Americans don't often benefit from that experience of being in recovery and having all of those tools easily accessible, especially hearing that they're not alone and what they're going through is really quite common. That was kind of the point for me to try to interview these people and have them share their full stories. [00:08:53] PF: It is so thoughtfully written. One thing that really struck me is how it shows just the universality of mental illness, of addiction. It's indiscriminate. It can take out anyone from any walk of life, any profession, vocation. How did you identify who to write about? It sounds like it wasn't very difficult to get them to open up and tell their stories, which was amazing to me because they are so personal. [00:09:21] PK: They opened up to me because, frankly, I was able to ask them to do it for our country. It’s not me, but I have this great last name. When my uncle challenged the country to ask not what their country could do for them but what they could do for their country, that kind of feeling is alive when I talk to people. They want to be part of something bigger than themselves. I just gave them that opportunity and platform and told them, yes, they were taking a big risk at disclosing their own challenges. But they also felt they had an opportunity to help others. For those of us in recovery, that is the key to our own recovery is making our own experience worthwhile, so we can try to help someone else. In helping others, we get liberated from our own self-imprisonment and our own self-centered selfish behavior. It's really the antidote for our illness to speak out and not be shamed and to help others. That's the way we get freedom from ourselves. [00:10:35] PF: Do you have an overall goal for the book? I imagine your goals for this book are not measured in sales. I feel like you have such a grand plan for this. What do you hope to see as a result of this book coming? [00:10:47] PK: Well, thank you, Paula. I started a campaign. It's not a political campaign for office. It's a campaign to build a movement for those suffering from mental illness and addiction, which of course, are treated separately in our reimbursement systems. We do not have a system, so to speak, that treats these as biopsychosocial illnesses. Biological because they're brain-based; psychological because they're mental health; and social because if people don't get support of housing, support of employment, they're just not going to have the same opportunities to succeed in recovery, which of course, we don't emphasize in the treatment of these illnesses. We only treat them in acute episodic fashion, as opposed to treating them as the chronic illnesses that they are. I have something called the Alignment for Progress because I believe we have to align financial incentives. We spend tons of money on the criminal justice system, on fire and police, on emergency rooms, on lost days and productivity and disability. I mean, we are spending so much money not taking care of these illnesses that I think if we align the budgets to actually prevent many of these illnesses from pathologizing, i.e. let's treat these like we do cancer, which is screen for stage one. Not wait till people are at death store and in a stage-four crisis. These are the things that I think we need to build into a national agenda. When I was in Congress, I could go to any special interest group, and they would tell me. The labor unions would tell me, “This is what is overtime pay. These are health benefits. This is pension and retirement. These are safe working conditions.” They literally have their whole agenda organized. I hate to say it but in mental health and addiction, we do not have a consumer-driven movement like every other patient advocacy movement. We don't have a common agenda. Everyone is marching up to Capitol Hill with their own diagnosis and bipolar over here and depression over here and anxiety over here and alcoholism over here. Even alcoholism and opioid use disorder are treated separately in terms of people's mindset. You could go on and on. The problem is we're all united on 99% of the same things, and yet we're not organized like a AFL-CIO or a League of Conservation Voters. [00:13:21] PF: Why do you think that is? If you look at the sheer volume of people who are suffering from it, you would think that someone else would have thought of this before now and started bringing it together under one umbrella. [00:13:33] PK: Well, the psychologist can't convene the psychiatrist and vice versa. The peer support people can't convene the social workers and marriage counselors. The schizophrenia people want SMI as the priority, which they deserve. Then we need mental wellness, but we don't really have that covered because that's not a diagnostic group. That falls into public health category. My point is no one's been able to kind of bring them all together. As I said, I was really honored to be the author of the Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act because as I said, I was outed, so I had no choice in the matter. I felt like I could put my name on a bill that had mental and addiction in it because, essentially, I had already been outed. That bill really affects all groups because it calls for reimbursement by insurance companies, including the federal government, for mental illness and addiction in a way that's no different from other chronic illnesses like asthma and cardiovascular disease and cancer, so forth. That is a bill that is kind of like a medical version of civil rights. It affects everybody that's kind of marginalized from these illnesses. Because of that, I have kind of a unique opportunity to kind of pull everyone in together because everyone, whether you're a psychologist, social worker, peer support specialist psych, you all benefit from this. If you're an inpatient hospital or an outpatient clinic, they all benefit from ending discrimination in reimbursement and coverage by insurance companies. I'm the guy that brought that, so I can call these people and basically say to these folks, “This is the new frontier for us. We need to band together and build a voice.” I often say it's like that Godfather film where they say, “We're bigger than US steel,” back in the fifties, talking about organized crime. This is the biggest special interest group in this country. If you count all the families affected by overdose, suicide, those living with these illnesses, there's no doubt everybody's affected by these illnesses, including the family members who are often left out of the narrative. If we ever organized, can you imagine the power we would have to transform the system? That's what I'm after. In the back of the book, I have a QR code which links people to a policy guide. I'm literally trying to get donors to allow us to build literally a movement. Let's get the number of people that care about this on listserv. If someone's running for office, they know how many people in their district, whether it's a state or federal office care about this issue. If we start doing those things, I am telling you we'll get more than the money we're getting today, and we'll get more of the urgency than we're getting today. [00:16:47] PF: How are you seeing the attitudes changing? How is that going to affect how it moves forward? Then part three of this question is in what still needs to happen. [00:16:57] PK: If we normalize this, if we allow people to get screened at every place of their medical system, if they're a cancer patient, they had better be screened for anxiety and depression and trauma. If they're having heart disease, they're four times more likely to die of a heart attack if they have depression. If they are diabetic and they don't have their alcoholism treated, just forget treating diabetes and so forth and so on. Our whole medical system ignores mental health and addiction. I think the more people we normalize this and just treat it as part of treatment for every illness, the less kind of bound up and stigma will be. Look at what we've done with HIV/AIDS. You look on the TV and you see ads for HIV drugs. Look on the TV and there's ads for erectile dysfunction and STDs. I mean, there's no difference in terms of the stigma that those illnesses had to overcome and the stigma we have to overcome. We can do this. We just have to do it as soon as possible because too many people are dying out there. [00:18:16] PF: Do you see it getting worse or getting better? Are there higher incidents of mental health problems? Or are we just more aware of it? What's the research and numbers showing? [00:18:25] PK: Well, the bottom line is we're playing a lot of catch-up because we've never invested in this space. Today, there's greater demand. Part of that's reduction in stigma. But part of it is the real trauma that people are living with today and the toxic world that we're living in and the ubiquitous technology that's sapping us. I think we're going to continue to see tragically worse and worse statistics in terms of the number of people dying of suicide and overdose, unless we take a fundamentally different approach. That means not just treating these illnesses after they occur but doing our best to try to prevent these illnesses from occurring by embedding, if you will, coping mechanisms, stress management, problem-solving skill development for our kids in elementary and secondary education. If kids cannot learn to self-modulate, in other words, understand how to manage their emotions, they can learn all the numeracy and history and literacy and not be successful in life because if you can't manage your feelings, then you're just not going to be successful in life. Then what we need to do is, just as I said, screen early so that for those who have kind of more predisposition for illnesses, severe mental illnesses, schizophrenia, bipolar, we know who's at risk. We could deploy a lot better early detection and screening. We need to be doing that because if we intervene, for example, with people who have their first psychotic break, we can dramatically reduce the disability that comes from that illness. We just don't treat people with schizophrenia, and we don't get their coordinated care, which is the evidence form of intervention put in place until after they've had multiple psychotic breaks, which frankly really pathologizes their illness, which means they have to take higher medications for their illness. If you have to take higher medications, then there's higher side effects, which means people don't want to take those medications. Imagine if we treated them early and they didn't have to take those high doses. They could probably stay compliant and live much more productive meaningful lives. [00:20:58] PF: Is this a solvable problem? Can we manage it if we start really working together and implementing these solutions that you're talking about? [00:21:07] PK: 100%. We can do this. We could literally – if we have this as an objective, we can align all of our federal agencies and departments and coordinate with county and municipal and states to really address this in a comprehensive way. I said there's so much cost to us not doing this. We just need to organize ourselves with all the resources. Now, when there's a tornado or hurricane or fire, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, FEMA, comes in to manage the aftermath. We need a FEMA for our homeless population with mental illness. We need a FEMA for the scourge of addiction in this country, which means we need a comprehensive approach. When FEMA comes in, they support the housing. They support the employment. They give small business loans. They help with food. They will help with clothing. They coordinate with Social Services. We need that type of approach for these illnesses. We need a multipronged systems-based approach to addressing these. If we do that, and we can do that, we will dramatically reduce the number of people dying of these illnesses and people who are suffering. Keep in mind, even if someone's not dying, they're dying inside. They're not living their full lives, and they're not living their lives. It's one thing to live physically. It's another to live spiritually and socially and emotionally. We don't look at that in our medical system and understand the value of people living free, of being hostage to their brain illness. [00:22:58] PF: You're doing such incredible work. We're going to let our listeners know how they can find your book. We'll give them links to the work that you're doing, connect them with that QR code, and so they can really support this. Because I know it's something everyone's concerned about, everyone is affected by. I think a lot of times, we don't know what to do, and we feel like, yes, there isn't a joint movement. There isn't something that I can do that can help affect change. I so appreciate all the work that you're doing and the fact that you're going to let our listeners jump in and help you on that mission. Patrick, I wish you the best of success with Profiles in Mental Health Courage and with all the other amazing projects you're working on. [00:23:33] PK: I want to thank you for allowing me to come on, and I appreciate the chance to speak to you and your listeners. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:23:44] PF: That was Patrick J. Kennedy, author of Profiles in Mental Health Courage, and an advocate for mental health and addiction education and treatment. If you'd like to learn more about his initiatives, discover his book, or follow him on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every week, we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

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