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Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Embracing the Power of Nature with Laura Allen and Courtney Crim  [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 373 of Live Happy Now. It’s summertime, and if you're listening to this indoors, it's going to make you want to step outside. I'm your host, Paul Felps, and this week I'm talking with Laura Allen and Courtney Crim about the power of connecting with nature. Laura is a Professor, and Courtney is an Associate Professor at Trinity University in San Antonio, Texas. Together, they developed a course called The Natural Environment and Well-Being, and they're here today to talk about why it's so important to get outside every day and what nature is doing for your mind, body, and spirit. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:40] PF: Laura and Courtney, welcome to Live Happy Now. [00:00:43] CC: Hi, thanks for having us. [00:00:45] LA: Yes, thank you. Glad to be here. [00:00:47] PF: This is such an excellent topic, and it's something that I really wanted to address. We've talked about this before, a little bit about nature and the power of getting out in it. But it's rare for us to be able to talk to people who are such experts in nature and getting outside. So before we really jump into what that does for us, can you tell me what made you decide to start studying both the power and the benefits of the natural environment? [00:01:12] LA: Well, we both teach child development, and we've noticed over the years the changes in the levels of stress, anxiety, depression, suicide, all things that are concerning in our students. So the ages of emerging adulthood, which is a new stage that most people in Western cultures go through, it's defined as ages 18 through 25. We also know that is a key window for the onset of mental disorders such as anxiety and depression and psychosis and substance abuse. The combination of those things concerned us. Plus we, Courtney and I, both have children who are emerging adults, so we saw some parallels there. Then we connected with some research. We found a book, I think it was 2017-ish, called The Nature Fix by Florence Williams, and read that, and started looking into this. There's just become more and more studies. The studies, while a lot of them are correlational, they're a lot stronger correlations. Now, we're actually even getting some causal effects that we're finding. It’s sad that you need research sometimes to know. I think we know that going outside and being in nature is good for us. But having that solid research base really convinced us that this is something that can be effective, not just for college students but for everyone. [00:02:32] PF: Yeah. It really does start from the time you’re little kids and when you're used to going outside and playing and enjoying nature. It kind of feels to me like we're getting away from that. Like I don't see – I understand safety issues and things like that. But also, I seem to see more and more kids staying inside, sitting on a screen, doing things like that. Whereas when we were kids, we couldn't wait to get outside. Is that true? [00:02:57] CC: Yes. I think we're just seeing – Well, COVID certainly didn't – [00:03:01] PF: Didn't do us any favors there. [00:03:02] CC: Yeah. It didn’t help with that, as everybody became much more comfortable being on a screen a lot of the day and being indoors most of the day. But we are seeing a shift, and we are seeing as people I think 80% of the US lives in an urban setting. As the numbers of people who live in an urban setting grow, fewer people are spending that time outside, so yes. [00:03:26] PF: That's alarming to think about. That we're not going in the right direction. [00:03:30] CC: Yeah. We’re not. [00:03:32] PF: Oh, great. So now, we've talked on the show and in the magazine about the importance of getting outside. So what has your research found? What does nature do for us physically, emotionally, all the ways? [00:03:46] CC: We're standing on the shoulders of a lot of other researchers around the world who have been looking at this for decades. Japan is one of the leaders in this and since the early ‘90s have really been putting a lot of effort into looking at what the benefits are. I think we sent you our chart. So hopefully, your listeners can see that. But we broke it up when we were trying to look at it as different areas because it does so much in so many ways. But one of the areas that the research shows a lot of benefit in is physical, and that's with your immune support. In Tokyo, at the very early onset of looking at forest bathing and forest therapy, they did this wonderful study where they put people in hotel rooms, and one of the theories that underlines why nature is good for us is the phytoncides, and that's a chemical that trees produce to protect themselves and to communicate with one another. If one of them was getting sick or ill, or if there's a parasite, they will send these chemicals out to protect themselves, as well as trees around them. So they were pumping phytoncides into these hotel rooms and they thought, “Well, maybe it's just because they're in a hotel away from their family for the weekend.” They actually did it with a comparison study. They had a control group. So they had some in a regular hotel room for the weekend. Then they had some where they were hyping in these phytoncides through the air conditioning system, and they did find a very significant difference in these certain white blood cells that our body makes, and they're called natural killer cells. In the research, you'll see them as NK cells. These white blood cells move through our body and seek out, I guess, things within your body that are not supposed to be there, a disease, specifically cancer cells from the onset, and kind of move through your body as a deterrent, as something that's proactive rather than reactive of getting your body into a better physical space. Cognitively, we see so many things. One of the theories also is attention restoration theory increases your ability to focus on a task that you may need. So that's going to help your attention, your memory, all of those things. Also, rumination falls under cognitive. It falls under a couple of these, but rumination studies show that if you're thinking over and over in your head, these negative thoughts, that's really going to contribute to depression and anxiety, which is what we're wanting to decrease. The rumination studies that we're finding are actually one of the areas where we're finding a causal link. It's not just correlational, using high tech, which we're not doing. The portable MRIs, they're able to show that there is a causal link with decreasing the rumination, which is also going to help you cognitively be able to focus on what's in front of you and what's important. [00:06:49] PF: Now, do you know why? Do you have a reason for that? Like what is it about being out in nature that changes that rumination? Because I know that's been a huge issue for a lot of people, especially as we've been isolated and locked down and then listening to the news. [00:07:03] LA: So most of the research now is focusing on the mechanisms that is trying to understand what causes all these benefits, and it's probably a synergistic effect of lots of things going on. But the theory that Courtney mentioned, the attention restoration theory, does probably one of the best jobs of discussing why rumination is decreased. So basically, what that means is in the 21st century, our frontal lobe, which is where all of our executive function and decision making is housed, is pretty much on all the time. Then you can just feel it. You just feel that mental fatigue a lot. [00:07:35] PF: We do not shut down. [00:07:37] LA: Right. We just don’t. So the theory, it's more complicated. But basically, when you go outside, it allows that frontal lobe to rest and recharge, and it replenishes that glucose that we need because nature does a lot of different things. That's one of the main reasons that they feel like you're letting yourself recharge. So that decreases your rumination. You're thinking about other things. You're not constantly focusing on all of the task at hand. [00:08:07] CC: Then socially as another area that we see a lot of benefit, there's a really great empathy study that came out of Stanford, where they went out to a forest. The other half went out to an urban area, and they had the participants look up at the trees or look up at the tall buildings. Then the researcher kind of “accidentally,” and I'm putting the quotation marks around that, dropped their box of pens. It was like, “Oh, no. I dropped my pins.” Those that have been looking at the trees for one or two minutes all stopped and helped pick up the pens. Those that were in the urban setting were just kind of like, “Oh, too bad.” [00:08:46] PF: At least I didn't steal the pens. I mean – [00:08:48] CC: I didn't. I didn’t take off with them. But we do see increased empathy out – [00:08:52] PF: That's interesting. [00:08:53] CC: Yeah, which is prosocial actions, cooperation, all of that kind of going together. Then emotional, we see a lot of good outcomes, and this is where we see this in the research that's out in the field, as well as what Laura and I do with our students quite a bit. What I love about this is that we show them how their own body reacts, but we see a decrease in tension, in anxiety, depression, confusion, hostility, fatigue, which is another one we see increases in self-esteem-related effect. Then overall mood, we use as the profile of moods survey – [00:09:33] LA: States. [00:09:34] CC: States. [00:09:34] LA: Yeah. [00:09:35] CC: Profile states. [00:09:36] LA: Sorry. [00:09:37] CC: So it's used in a lot of the literature, and we use that, again, with our students and all of our outcomes for like correlate with what we're seeing around the world. But that emotional piece is something that we're focused highly on. [00:09:48] PF: Well, let me ask you something, and this could be too off the wall. But one thing, I have a lot of friends who have had COVID. Now, they're having like brain fog, and they're having some other like lasting fatigue. I realized it's too soon to have research on it. But anecdotally, is there anything that you have seen that would say, “Okay, this could be something worth trying to offset some of those,” because I'm hearing a lot of complaints from people. [00:10:16] LA: I don't think we've actually seen a study on that. So we would be hesitant to say yes. But given what we know about the benefits of nature, I certainly don't think it would hurt, as long as someone doesn't have asthma or allergies. It’s one of those Ozone Action Days or something like that. As long as you – I certainly don't think it would hurt, and I think it very much might help. If I had that myself, I would definitely spend even more time outside. [00:10:45] PF: If nothing else, it's going to help your mood, right? It’s going to do that little pick me up. [00:10:50] LA: Yes. [00:10:51] PF: That's terrific. Now, you ladies have been studying this a lot. Is there anything that's really surprised you that as you've done this research, that was really unexpected for you to discover? [00:11:03] CC: Our findings match the research literature on the effects of the natural environment on various aspects of health. We have found that we match pretty well. One thing that was interesting is we think we're finding. We're in the stages of analyzing some data right now, but it's looking as if the impacts kind of strengthen over time with this age group. At the beginning, they're kind of like, “Oh, you want me to go sit outside. I've got a biochem exam coming up, and you want me to sit without my phone.” Then a couple weeks later, we're seeing this, “Oh, we're so glad you're making me do this. This is really something I look forward to.” Then by the end of this semester, they were very much reporting that they needed this time. [00:11:43] PF: That was excellent. [00:11:44] CC: Yeah. It’s kind of interesting. It took them a little bit of time to see the benefits, and they aren't very egocentric. They're supposed to be. That's their job at this. But seeing how it personally helped their own mood with these measures was also very telling. I had written down some of their quotes on the sit spots that I'll share with you. One of them said, “Sit spots are hard at the beginning but because they're so cool and have truly helped me manage my stress and the demands of the human world.” Another said, “I learned the most from our sit spot assignment. I learned how to take time to check in with myself and improve my well-being. I was able to lower my stress levels, improve my mood, increase my productivity after I completed my sit spot.” So it was kind of interesting to see that it took them a while [00:12:27] LA: We didn't really describe our. We teach a class in this. We started out with our interdisciplinary research team that we teach it. We were able to offer a class, and our commitment is more than 50% of the class will be outside in natural spaces. So field trips out to natural spaces, while we read the research literature. We also give students – We have them collect data on themselves and compare it to the literature so that they can see if it's really – It’s great to say somebody else is getting these effects, but what's happening to you? That’s really powerful for them to realize that, yes, it's not just somebody else somewhere else, but it's actually I'm having the same benefits for myself. [BREAK] [00:13:15] PF: So we're going to take a quick break from our talk with Laura and Courtney, and I'm going to bring in Casey Johnson, our favorite. She's our ecommerce marketing manager and always does such a great job. Casey, welcome to the show. [00:13:28] CJ: Thanks for having me. [00:13:29] PF: Now, Casey, you discovered a great product called Organifi. You brought it to me. I was already a huge fan of juicing, so I got really excited about partnering with them. Then what happened is it showed up in my house the same week I caught that little virus thing that's going around. So the timing could not have been better. I started using the Organifi green, and that has like 11 super foods and all the benefits of the leafy green veggies without the chewing, which I did not want to do right then. Then so I had like all these benefits of juicing, and all I had to do was scoop it in my glass and just stir it up. I loved it because it was organic, and it had like chlorella, spirulina, beets, tumeric. It tasted really, really good. It was a great way to get my nutrition and when I didn't feel well. But now, I've found it's a great morning drink to start my day, and it’s making sure I get my vitamins and antioxidants in. Casey, why don't you tell our listeners how they can enjoy the benefits of Organifi? [00:14:24] CJ: Sure. They can go to organifi.com/livehappynow. That's Organifi, O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com/livehappynow, and they'll get 20% off their first purchase. If you go to organifi/livehappynow, that code is automatically applied at checkout. Or you can just go to organifi.com and use the code Live Happy Now to get that 20% off. [00:14:51] PF: Super cool, and I totally recommend it. I hope people check it out. Now, speaking of green things, we're going to go back to Laura Allen and Courtney Crim because they're talking about the healing power of nature. [INTERVIEW RESUMED] [00:15:05] PF: You talked about where they didn't want to go outside at first, and it really struck me. We're like that too as grown adults, where it's like, “I don't want to leave my desk. I have this work to get done. I don't want to do it,” and we kind of have that same resistance. How do we get past that and get to that point? Because we don't have professors like you saying, “Hey, give me your phone and go outside.” We have bosses that say, “Sit at your desk and get your work done.” So how do people find that within themselves and do you create a schedule to go outside? Like what's a great plan to get started in doing this? [00:15:41] CC: Starting in small steps. Having like – If Laura and I are going to have a quick meeting, we can go sit outside, or we can walk somewhere on campus, kind of like a walk and talk. That's a very easy way to start. We have these great Adirondack chairs on our campus. So if I'm reading or grading, I'll just go sit outside. I have moved my standing desk to my window. So when I'm standing and working, I'm actually looking out over a green space area. [00:16:09] PF: That reminds me. Let me ask you because I have seen a lot of studies about how, say, patients in a hospital who have a window that look at a park fare better than someone who has no window or is looking at the parking lot. You talk about how just seeing nature outside our window or even in a painting, like the beautiful one over your shoulder. How does that affect us? [00:16:29] LA: Actually, there are quite a few studies that show that just looking at images of nature compared to images of built environments improves some of these things we've been talking about. Typically, it's better to be outside. But, yeah, if you can just have the images and the pictures or if you can – I know our daughters at school, they have beautiful windows in their apartments and dorms with trees outside, but they don't ever open them. I’m like, “Oh, my god.” So like when we're FaceTiming, I'm like, “Is your window open? Show me.” I'm like, “Open your blinds.” Just simple things like that. But I try to take breaks during the day. I know a lot of us are working at home sometimes and I'll just – When I kind of feel like I'm fatigued and stopping place on something, I'll just take a short walk, and I just kind of get that recharge I need to be able to do that. Plus, I don't know, I think Courtney are both very good at taking vacations intentionally that are in nature. My family just – We got back from the Rocky Mountains. We just went last week, and we went specifically for hiking and to spend time outside, so just being a little bit more intentional. Yeah, it's fun to go to New York City. But is that necessarily the best for us? [00:17:38] PF: Yeah. That's a great thing to think about as parents of where you take your children. Have you seen, I guess, kids get used to spending more time outside? Will that become more natural, no pun intended? Will it become more natural to them to be out in that environment? Or is it always going to be a struggle with the screens? [00:17:57] CC: I think it does. I think the language that we tend to use a lot is kids are naturally curious, and they're at one with nature. They thrive in that unstructured, natural environment, and we kind of tame it out of them. The more that they are in schools that keep them inside or don't have outdoor learning environments available to them, so I think keeping them focused. It becomes like typical, expected part of what their family does. If friend groups and peer groups continue to find ways to be outside. In San Antonio, we had an initiative at the 10-minute walk where every family would be able to walk to a green space within 10 minutes of their home. You may not do that with your family, but you may do it with a group of peers. So you've got that access. I think all of that's going to continue to benefit, as far as keeping children curious about nature and their green environments. [00:18:56] PF: You bring up a great point because what about urban areas? Not everyone is 10 minutes away from a green space. So what are some solutions for people? [00:19:04] LA: A number of the studies that we've found benefits are done in urban parks. So it's not that you have to go out to wilderness settings. The key is to get outside around green space, blue space that we call it. There's even a recent study that came out about people going out into the desert, and just being out in the desert was more beneficial than being in an urban context. So it's not – You do not – I mean, obviously, it's lovely to go out to the mountains or to the river or something like that, but you don't have to. The key is to get outside, just maybe eat your lunch outside under a tree in a green space. [00:19:44] PF: This is so interesting, and it's so important. It's so simple and so effective. It’s like truly all you have to do is go outside and be still, and it makes changes for you. So what is the one thing that both of you, you really want people to know about this and hope that they discover? [00:20:00] LA: I think it's a much more powerful source of wellbeing than we have understood. I think our ancestors, we evolved in natural spaces. It's only been recently. Actually, it was 2008, that the whole world lived more in urban environments than in rural environments. So what we're seeing is the effect of urbanization on us. We know that urbanization is correlated with mental health disorders. So just how easy it is, and it's much more powerful. It certainly is no substitute for seeing mental health professionals or things like that. But I think that we do not realize the impact of staying indoors and especially staying on screens as often as we do. One thing I just wanted to mention is that there's a lot of research now into the dose and exposure effect. In other words, how long do you have to do this? Like how long do you have to be outside to really get those benefits? The most recent research shows that about 120 minutes per week is a good amount, and that can be done like all at once. But it can also be done cumulatively. Like if you can't go outside for 120 minutes today, those can add up. They kind of found a sweet spot between 200 and 300 minutes a week. So after 300 minutes a week, you really didn't get any additional benefits. So just kind of – I think for us, we kind of keep that 120 minutes in our head. All of it matters and all of it helps, but I just think we need to realize that it's probably the simplest thing we're not doing to improve our wellbeing. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:21:43] PF: That was Trinity University's Lauren Allen and Courtney Crim, talking about the power of connecting with nature. If you'd like to learn more about their work or schedule a virtual group forest therapy walk, visit our website at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. Throughout July, we're celebrating Live Happy’s summer of fun month. As part of that, we're giving away some prize packs that include great Live Happy merch, The Happiness Workbook for Kids by Maureen Healy, and some other very cool family friendly gifts, including Sunny Sunglasses made just for kids, and Yipes plant-based face and hand wipes to keep those little hands and faces clean while you're outside enjoying nature with the family. Visit our website or follow us on social media to learn more and find out how to enter. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Mental Health Awareness with the Live Happy Crew  [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Welcome to Episode 363 of Live Happy Now. May is Mental Health Awareness Month. Here at Live Happy, we realize that happiness and good mental health go hand in hand. So we've brought the whole crew together to talk about it. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and throughout the month of May, we're going to focus on tools for better mental health. But to kick it off, our team sat down for a conversation about how the past couple of years have affected each of us and some of the ways that we've coped. Joining me for this special episode, our Live Happy CEO and Co-Founder Deborah Heisz, E-commerce Marketing Manager, Casey Johnson, Web Editor, Chris Libby, Senior Marketing Manager, Britney Chan, and Senior Marketing Specialist, Shane Lee. I hope you enjoy this candid conversation, and be sure to stay tuned until the end of this podcast when we'll tell you about a special deal in a Live Happy store exclusively for listeners. [EPISODE] [00:01:01] PF: You guys, thank you everyone for coming and joining us for this special episode of Live Happy Now. [00:01:08] BC: Thank you for having us. [00:01:10] PF: It's always fun to talk with everybody, the whole gang. We don't get to get together in person, but sometimes we can Zoom it. I know you guys see each other a lot more than I get to see you. But this was a really special talk that we wanted to have because Deb felt really strongly about Mental Health Awareness Month and us doing something on it. So that's how I'd love to start. Deb, why was it so important for you to make sure that we covered this because we're doing – Our entire month is dedicated to mental health awareness. [00:01:38] DH: Well, I mean, obviously, mental health ties into happiness. I mean, if you're not healthy, either physically or mentally, it's really going to impede and impact your happiness. As you know, for us, happiness isn't really about the emotion happiness. It's about, living a positive life, having a positive assessment of how you're doing in life. Really, it is different than the podcast name. Live Happy doesn't just mean, “Hey, let's go out and  have ice cream and ride roller coasters and  run free through fields of green and meadows.” It's not really what we're about. We really are about that positive emotion part of positive well-being. It really is – Happiness is a high perceived sense of wellbeing. What we know is the pandemic has impacted people's perception of their well-being in significant ways. In fact, Jason Dorsey, who does a lot of research on the difference between generations – I forget what the name of this company is, but he’s a phenomenal speaker. He does just a great job of identifying how boomers are different from Gen Xers and Xers are different from millennials. The millennials are different from Generation Z, but they did some research projects on Generation Z that shows that that group that is at most 25.6, 27, and at least 10, 11, or 12, that group has more mental health issues than any other group, any other generation has. A lot of it has to do with what they've missed out because of the pandemic. They've missed graduation. They've missed prom. They've missed going to college. They've missed being in class with their peers. They've missed all of those social things that we depend on. We talked so much on this podcast about how relationships are essential to your mental health and to your happiness. All of that got taken away from a lot of people over the last two years. So I think it's really important that we spend a little time talking about it at Live Happy and on the podcast. [00:03:32] PF: Yeah, for children too below. Let’s think younger than those teenagers and young adults. I had read something about how the level of anxiety in children and also the fact that they've been wearing masks. They didn't get a lot of that interaction. We gain so much interaction from our smiles and our emotions that we convey in our face, and those have been hidden. So there was something I just read yesterday that was talking about the need for that for us to really address it with our children and start looking for the good in the world because the last two years have been really traumatizing for them. [00:04:06] DH: Well, I mean, there's a lot of social anxiety. I mean, I read an article. There's a lot of social anxiety in the under-five set. Typically, my three children, it was always play dates, getting together with kids, going to daycare, whatever you could do to get them entertained. But, no, kidding. But a lot of it was also learning how to socialize with other children and other adults, and a lot of kids just haven't even been exposed to that. I mean, they've truly been with their own families on a daily basis. Or even you get into first, second, and third grade. Can you imagine going into kindergarten on Zoom and having that be your first experience? Or not getting to graduate? The other extent of that, not getting to graduate or start college in person. I mean, there's so much social development that goes on, and it's really impacted mental health from Generation Z. I'm sure Jason hasn't studied the generation after that, whatever they're going to be called. But I'm positive it's had just as much impact there, and that's not even talking about those of us who are used to getting our socialization from our workplace or getting our away time by going to the movies or going out to eat at restaurants. Just how much it's substantially changed who we are and how we live. Even though many of us, particularly in Texas, were back to relative normal, but the relative normal is key. But that still doesn't mean those two years didn't impact our mental health in ways that we may not quite know or know yet. It certainly impacted the health of our children. One of the interesting facts that Jason was saying was Generation Xers – I’m a Gen X. I'm old, yeah. Our big social defining impact is like the challenger explosion, right? Millennials, for the most part, it's 9/11. Those things are ancient history to Gen Z. Their definition, their defining point of their childhood, bring them together as a generation, is COVID. [00:05:58] PF: Wow. Yeah. To your point, we're still dealing with the fallout from it. It’s not completely gone, and it gets frightening for people when the media starts talking about, “Better expect another surge. We better –” They’re kind of like preparing us for that, and I hear those conversations. I hear people already being anxious for what's to come, instead of being able to just be like, “Okay, let's kind of take a breath and be in this moment.” It's like we're not being given that chance. [00:06:25] DH: The media is certainly very good at understanding that what scares us is something we'll watch or pay to read, so they invest a lot of time and energy in that. We've talked about this before, but a big part of mental health is what you allow to have mind space. What do you put in your brain? So if you're reading those negative news reports, I'm not saying we don't need to know about what's going on in Ukraine. I'm not saying we don't need to be informed about what's going on in the pandemic. But it can be overwhelming with a 24-hour news cycle, and you get 18 different emails with different headline news's. Or you click on the app on your phone, or you turn on the television, or you turn on the radio. If you allow that to be the only thing that's entering your brain, it's going to be very hard to keep a positive mental outlook on the world. [00:07:14] PF: Absolutely. That brings me to a question. I'd love to hear what everyone on the team kind of what has been their go to to manage the stress that we've all felt in the last couple of years and how you keep your mental health balanced. I guess the easiest way to do it is alphabetically because that way we're not showing favorites. So I'm going to ask Britney, Britney Chan. What was your kind of go-to solution? [00:07:37] BC: My go-to solution during the pandemic was, obviously, to just try my best to stay as connected as possible, even being at home. So I practice a lot of video chatting, FaceTiming, Zooming with my friends and family. It really almost became like a daily activity for me and something I really look forward to. I know there's always this talk about tech and digital, and it's all over the place, and it's taking over our lives. But in this instance, it really did the opposite. It made me feel more connected, and I was able to see my sister and watch my niece and nephew play. I mean, there would be times where we would just stay on the phone. We wouldn't even talk to each other. We would just be there and be able to see what's going on. So, yeah, video chatting had a really positive effect on my mood during that time. Also, Deb, you just touched on it just a second ago about choosing to put what's in your mind. Like for me, I really made a conscious decision to not overwhelm myself with information about the pandemic or just the news in general because there's not a lot of good news out there. It seems to be very negative lately. So I read enough to stay informed. I read enough to make sure I'm following protocol and doing the right things and all that stuff. But other than that, I stayed away from the information overload when it came to the news or even social media about the pandemic. I would kind of just like scroll past it. So those are the things I really did to help my mental health during that time. [00:09:20] PF: That's really smart, and it's difficult for a lot of people because we know social media is designed to be addictive. So you end up doing that zombie scroll, and it's like, “Oh, my god.” First of all, you're having a panic attack by the time that you're done. It just – You feel horrible. That's a terrific way to do it to kind of curate what you're going to let – [00:09:39] BC: Yeah. That's a good word for it. I was self-curating what I was putting into my mind. [00:09:44] PF: That's very cool. Casey, how about you? Because I feel like of anyone, you and I probably talked the most about all of this and what was going on. We talk about podcast episodes, things like that. So what were some of the things that you were doing? Because you always maintained such a great upbeat attitude throughout the whole whatever we were dealing with. [00:10:07] CJ: Well, thank you for saying that. I certainly didn't feel that way on the inside, sometimes. But, yeah, I mean, just to kind of echo Britney, I'm kind of in the same situation as she is. My sister has two kids. They're young. So I was very grateful that we were able to video chat, and I was able to see them that way. I did find myself being glued to the news and zombie scrolling, like we were talking about. So I kind of had to check myself. I would limit my screen time. I stopped checking my phone first thing in the morning. I even started sleeping with it in the other room, which helped me sleep better. I brought my screen time down, which helped with my anxiety. I even started – I found this like YouTube video. It was like a 10-minute like yoga meditation and it's really hard for me to like sit still for long periods of time. So meditation has always been kind of a challenge for me. But just starting my day off like that, me not looking at my phone. Getting in touch with like my mind and body really just helped me maintain my sanity throughout that whole thing we experienced – [00:11:03] PF: Whatever it was. We don't even know what to call it. [00:11:06] CS: Yeah. I’m like blocking out but yeah. [00:11:08] PF: Thing. That’s really good, and it worked. Because, again, you were always like you've always been very positive and able to like see the good in whatever we had going on. So that's been super cool and super fun to work with on you. I'm really interested to hear Chris and then Deb because they have a slightly different perspective because not only were they dealing with their own situation, but they're both parents. That just adds another layer of complexity. So, Chris, what about you? You've got two little girls. How were you working this in your house? [00:11:39] CL: Yes, I do. That easily takes up a lot of time to where you don't have a lot of time to really think about it. But I will say, continuing what Deb was saying earlier, that the pandemic came out, and it changed all of our social behaviors. It created – There were some unintended consequences, although we were able to still keep things moving, working at home, and stuff like that. The unintended consequence was loneliness just skyrocketed. Even if you have a family, you can still find yourself in those times of loneliness. When the kids and everybody else went back, and I was still at home, then everything got quiet. Then you're just working all day. Then that's when it really sets in. You're not talking to anybody. You're not talking to your friends as much, just because of what we've been through the past couple of years. So, of course, pets always are a great option. If you're a pet owner, that's going to reduce your stress. It takes your mind off of things. It keeps you physically active. There's a new report that came out from Penn State actually on this loneliness kind of epidemic that we're in and what you can do to combat that, even if you are at home alone. That is choosing activities that get you into a flow state. Now, we at Live Happy are familiar with what the flow state is. One of the pioneers of positive psychology, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, I think I said that right, he kind of introduced that theory. But it's basically when you're engaged in these tasks that kind of where time just kind of goes away, they're meaningful, challenging activities during your free time that it can reduce your loneliness and increase just momentary moments of happiness, but at least it's still happiness. Those are just any activity that you have a reasonably good skill, and it's not too complicated because then you'll lose interest. You just kind of submerge yourself in these activities like playing music, listening to music, even playing video games, different types of sports, writing, reading, painting. Just those kinds of leisurely activities that really take your mind out of it. I live next to a park. I'm fortunate enough to I'm able to go outside and kind of take walks in the park and kind of lose myself in that way or shoot baskets, which is a really enjoyable activity for me. Because you kind of immerse yourself and just play scenarios in your head and think that you are the greatest basketball player ever. [00:14:03] PF: Are you saying you're not? [00:14:04] CL: No, not really. Far from it. But when I'm out there, I am. So that's the good thing. Those are the kinds of things that can alleviate those feelings of loneliness and those feelings of anxiety and even depression. [00:14:18] PF: Yeah. Reframing that's really important. We have a podcast episode coming up, I believe, in June with Eric Barker. He had done some research found that loneliness – Like people who are lonely actually spent the same amount of time with other people, as people who are not lonely. But it's really your mental state. So that's really interesting. The things that you're talking about are great, like being able to employ some of those techniques, so you do feel less lonely. I think that's a great way to handle it. Deb, you were running a company remotely, a couple of companies. You also then have three active children. So how are you keeping all that balanced? Because, obviously, your kids were at home. You were at home. Everything changed for you. How did you keep that going? [00:15:05] DH: Well, first of all, I have to talk about the fact that there were some positive aspects of the pandemic for me, which sounds horrible and people – The pandemic wasn't positive. But because I couldn't travel, and I've been traveling a tremendous amount for the past, I don't know, 25 years of my life, to suddenly be in the same time zone for a long period of time, I got rest for the first time in what I think is forever. So for me, I think it's not just what changed that was difficult. It's also what changed that’s positive. I don't ever want to go back to living the way I lived before, where I was basically  in four time zones, and I'm talking about hours away time zones in a month, and it makes it a bit crazy. You don't realize what you're missing out on. It's like I'd spend time with the kids. I've always been very engaged when I'm with them. But hitting that, I feel more awake than I felt for 20 years before that. I didn't realize it. So there was a positive aspect for me. Of course, there also is that tiny aspect which changed for me. It used to be because I made specific time to be with my children, being engaged with them while they were there was something that was easy to do. Well, suddenly, they're there all the time. I'm there all the time. I have other things I need to do. Setting boundaries became an exercise. I don't want to say in futility, but it was certainly an exercise that took some time to get established. When I truly am on the phone, I truly am working. I cannot open up your Gatorade for you right now. Things that just changed. For the kids, it was far more difficult than it was for me. Initially, those first couple months, we did a lot of puzzles. We took a lot of walks. We have dogs. Our golf course never completely shut down, so we go hit a few balls. I mean, they were closed, but they let you play. It was a weird situation. So we always had things to do, but it was very different for the kids. The kids, when school started in the fall, it certainly was very frustrating for them. We had in-person school starting in the fall of 2021, so our kids have never been not allowed to go to school. But to suddenly have masks, that social distancing, and all of that stuff, it was remarkable to me how quickly they adapted. [00:17:17] PF: Can I ask you, how did you talk with your children about this too? Because you, of all people then in the positive psychology space, doing what you do, you're aware of what fear does, what mental impact this would have on them. So how did you talk with your children about what was going on to keep them from – I mean, I know kids that are just terrified. They're terrified of breathing other people's air. They've been very indoctrinated with fear. So how did you explain this to your kids? [00:17:45] DH: Well, first of all, I think it helps that we're not by nature a fearful family. We are well traveled and somewhat adventurous from whitewater rafting, to hiking off the grid. We're not – My children have a certain element of self-sufficiency and self-reliance already built in, just from who we are as people to begin with. So I think that helped. But the second thing was you can't overemphasize enough that the likelihood of something bad happening is very small, and you can't dwell on something that might happen. We did talk a little bit about driving a car. You have likelihoods of car wrecks. There's fuel. You fly in a plane. But these things don't happen commonly. So we all get sick. We've all been sick. We've all had the flu. We've all had corona virus. We've all had – It’s possible we may get this. But for the most part, we need to make sure that we're doing the hygiene things we need to do and try not to get it because nobody wants to be sick. Or if somebody does get sick, no, it's going to happen. It's okay. You have to tell people it’s okay. We don't know if it's going to be okay. But they’re kids, right? You don’t want to say, “Be careful not hug grandma. She's going to die.” I mean, don’t you think that’s too much? We have to be really careful and put things in perspective. [00:19:01] PF: I'd like to learn what Shane did when he was during – Shane is our quiet one, always. So I'm really interested to hear from him and find out what were you doing with the pandemic? [00:19:12] SL: Yeah. It was an interesting time. I will say all of the things that y'all spoke of I employed in my life. Like Deb was mentioning, just a feeling of being alone like the first year of this. I was essentially living in a one-bedroom apartment by myself. My family, they don't live in Dallas. They live at least four hours away. So really, I just had myself and just people I had I could connect with to my phone. But still, I was pretty lonely. Even though my living situation has shifted since then, it's still a lot of notes of loneliness. But it's okay because through that I've strengthened that feeling of being able to do things for myself. Chris mentioned this earlier but going through these first days. There’s a hobby I started doing, skateboarding, and I've been doing that for about a year now. It's like a big part of my identity, but there's always a new goal with that. I've learned with perseverance and patience. So that's a fun activity I love to do, and I’m excited to do it right after this call. In addition to that, I also just love just going on walks outside, just feeling the warmth to sunlight on your skin. Photosynthesis is really hype. Plants, they really get it. But I would say another thing is just I've really adopted this mindset of just living more in the present, less worrying about the past, or not anticipating the future, but really just valuing the time I spend with the people I talk with in this moment. So for example, time spent with y'all today is always time well spent. So I'm happy to just be talking with you all. On top of all of that, I try to unplug as much as possible. If I didn't have to use it for work, I probably wouldn't be on social media. But I don't feel a need to like post my life on social media because I’m a firm believer in the right people know what I'm doing. Like Casey said too, I've also employed some time limits on my social apps. So really, I don't spend that much time on social media or my phone in general. Yeah. [00:21:23] PF: That's excellent. Yeah. I think we all – [00:21:25] BC: We’re comparing our screen times last week. [00:21:29] PF: How did that go? [00:21:31] SL: I did poorly. I lost. [00:21:34] BC: I worked really hard to get my screen time down to where it is. [00:21:37] SL: Yeah. Not all weeks are winners, but at least I'm mindful of it, at least. [00:21:42] BC: Yeah. [00:21:44] PF: I think we all had such a great advantage because of what we do and where we're working because we have all these tools. Like every week, we're talking to someone who is giving us a new tool, and we have this whole background. We've all been at the company for a while, so we have this pretty good backlog of mental resources of how we can handle some of these things. Like we didn't know we were preparing for what we've had, but I think it was really helpful. One thing that I did was when the pandemic hit, I was living in an apartment downtown Nashville. I loved it, going to concerts all the time. Then it was like, “Wow, I'm stuck in a box,” and I moved out into the country, a huge difference in a lot of ways. But being in nature every day has just been absolutely life-changing. Again, that's something we really learned from Live Happy and the stories that we've written about how much it affects us. I see it. I see it with my animals. I see it with myself. So I do feel like Live Happy has been such a gift for us. I hope other people have gotten as much from it as we have because I think it really helped us have the tools to get through the pandemic more easily. It's been so great to talk to you guys. I love when we get together and do this. We'll do it again soon. One of the things that we know is really good for your mental health is laughter. So that's why I'm sure Chris Libby has a fantastic dad joke locked and loaded. [00:23:03] CJ: I’ve been waiting for this moment. [00:23:04] PF: Ready to roll. [00:23:05] BC: I know. I’m ready. [00:23:08] CL: I don’t know. Did you guys happen to hear that in honor of Mental Health Awareness Month that the United Kingdom is going to officially change their name? [00:23:17] PF: To? [00:23:17] BC: To what? [00:23:19] SL: It’s no longer going to be referred to as the UK. Now, it will be referred to as You Okay. [00:23:26] DH: All right. [00:23:27] PF: That’s why we asked you to join us. [00:23:29] BC: Round of applause. Way to go. [00:23:32] SL: Listeners, the scenario was, that was a solid joke. I just want you all to know. My eyes rolled so hard. [00:23:40] PF: Perfect. Well, thank you all. I appreciate you guys giving me your time today and sharing with our listeners everything that – Not everything you've learned but so much that you've learned and how we can get through this together. [00:23:52] DH: Thanks, Paula. It was awesome as you were. [00:23:53] BC: Thank you for having us. [00:23:55] CJ: Thank you. [00:23:55] CL: Thank you. [END OF EPISODE] [00:24:02] PF: That was the Live Happy crew, talking about mental health. If you'd like to learn more, visit our website at livehappy.com. Click on the podcast tab for some great stories and resources. While you're on our site, you can get 20% off anything and everything in the Live Happy store just by using the code SELF-LOVE 20. That's SELF-LOVE 20. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: How You and Your Kids Can Save the Planet With Dr. Dana Ellis Hunnes  [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Welcome to Episode 361 of Live Happy Now. This week, we're celebrating Earth Day. So today, we're going to ask not what our planet can do for us but what we can do for our planet. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm joined by Dana Ellis Hunnes, an assistant professor at the UCLA Fielding School of Public Health and author of Recipe for Survival: What You Can Do to Live a Healthier and More Environmentally Friendly Life. As you'll soon hear, Dana is both passionate and knowledgeable about issues such as food security, climate change, and the health of both humans and animals. She's here to talk about how we can create a healthier, happier, and more environmentally friendly life, and even get our kids involved. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:49] PF: Dana, thank you so much for coming on Live Happy Now. [00:00:52] DEH: Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. [00:00:55] PF: It’s perfect timing because we have Earth Day coming up. So we wanted to talk to you. You've written such a thoughtful and well-researched book. To kick things off, I wanted personally to find out what made you want to write this book. [00:01:10] DEH: Yeah. There were a few things that really compelled me to write this book. One of them was definitely the research I did for my dissertation in Ethiopia, learning all about climate change, food security, and the issues that people are living with in a country that really depends on the rain for their agriculture. Then the second thing that really compelled me was giving birth to my son, who was so tiny, not even six pounds at birth, and looking down at him and realizing that we only have this one planet. The planet that he's growing up in, it has some things that are endangering it. So really, I think the combination of those two things, just it was my way of dealing with all my concerns, to research and to write everything I put down in this book. [00:02:01] PF: We get insulated because – Especially if you live in a city where your food is brought to you, you we're almost like children being catered to by a very kind nanny. Everything is just brought to us. We can get everything that we need, and we tend to forget that the world doesn't operate like that. [00:02:19] DEH: Yeah. No, that's absolutely true. I mean, in many countries around the world that are not nearly as developed as ours is, people live off the land, and they really do depend on the rain for being able to grow their food if they don't have the agricultural inputs like irrigation and wells and things like that. So it really does put it into perspective. I'll tell you, we have our own little community garden plot up on campus, and it kind of does make you appreciate just what goes into growing food. [00:02:52] PF: Right. That's a little tougher than walking over to the bin and picking the most attractive one. [00:02:58] DEH: Correct, yes. [00:02:59] PF: Well, and in your book, it's really eye-opening and, frankly, a little overwhelming at times to see what we have created. I've had conversations with people who feel like we're too far around the bend. So it's like what's the point of even trying right now? What is your take on people who have that mindset? [00:03:16] DEH: I mean, I guess I would say that makes me a little sad to kind of just throw in the towel. Because I think if each and every one of us does try to do our part and make the planet a little bit safer or a little bit healthier for both ourselves and our children, I think if a lot of us take these little actions that I talked about in my book, I think really we actually can make a difference. I mean, it is an overwhelming topic. I do admit that. I will also admit, the first few chapters of my book are a little depressing when you read them. But with that said, I mean, the second half of the book really is 21 things that we can all do right now to make a difference and to not feel so hopeless. So that's what I want really people to take away is, yes, I understand. I get it. I've been there. It feels depressing. But if you do something, I tell you, you feel empowered. You feel like you're making a difference, and it can make all the difference in the world. [00:04:19] PF: Yeah. Even that process of starting to educate yourself about what's going on a little bit more, like beyond just our little pocket of the world to start learning about it, that's a huge step toward making change, isn't it? [00:04:33] DEH: It absolutely is. That’s one thing I've been very fortunate to be able to do is in my research and just in my own life, I've been able to see other places around the world and learn how are people living and what are they doing to make a difference or what are they doing that's more environmentally friendly. So I do think if we get into our own little silos and just kind of put our blinders on, that can make things definitely tougher than if we try to look at a wider perspective on things. [00:05:04] PF: So where do people start? Because I know there are people who are interested in preserving the planet. We got to take care of this. But then it's like, “I don't even know where to start.” There are so many changes they feel like they have to make. So what's your advice on those baby steps? [00:05:20] DEH: Yeah. I absolutely say if you had to just choose one thing because life is overwhelming right now, and there's a lot we all have to take care of, whether that's children or parents, if we're in that sandwich generation. If there's only one thing you can do, the most impactful thing you can do is look at your meals. Truly, there's three, sometimes four or five, depending on how many meals you eat in a day, times a day that you can have an environmental impact and also a health impact. We all want to live more healthfully, too. So, absolutely, if you only have the bandwidth to try one thing, it’s really start looking at your plate and see where we can make practical adjustments. I do talk about that as well in the book. [00:06:04] PF: Yeah. Can we dig into that a little bit more? Because a lot of times, when people are talking about changing their meals, it's for diet reasons like, “I want to lose weight,” or, “I want to be healthier.” But you say it really makes a difference in the earth if we start in our own homes, and now you're breaking it down even further like, “Start on our plate.” So what does that mean? What's that going to look like for us? [00:06:25] DEH: Right. Well, the nice thing about that, looking at your plate, is not only is it beneficial for the environment, and it absolutely can be, but it's also incredibly beneficial for our health. So the lovely thing about it is we're really packing a one-two punch. We're doing two things simultaneously, and I absolutely agree. A lot of people do look at their food on their plate as, “I want to be healthier. I want to maybe lose a few pounds.” Then the great thing about what I'm talking about, this plant-forward, plant-based diet, is that it really can reverse certain diseases like heart disease, diabetes, even obesity, and/or prevent a lot of these diseases, while at the same time being more environmentally friendly. You're not producing as many emissions. You're using less water. You're using less land. You're preserving habitat around the world. That's the beautiful thing. When I say a plant-forward or plant-based diet, what I mean is pack your plate full of vegetables, full of whole grains, full of fruits, nuts, and seeds. Then you won't even notice you're missing the standard American fare of meat or chicken or things like that. [00:07:37] PF: What is the difference environmentally with plant-based and meat? [00:07:40] DEH: Well, I'll put it into perspective this way. On one acre of land, you can grow about 10,000 times more calories of plants than you can if you were growing a cow or beef on that land. I mean, that's a humongous difference. In terms of emissions, you're saving about 90% of the emissions if you're plant-based versus if you're eating like a standard American diet full of meat and dairy products. In fact, if everyone on the planet went primarily plant-based, we would only need about one-quarter of the land that we do right now to feed everybody. So that would mean we could feed millions, billions more people on the planet. Not that I'm saying we should. I'm just saying we can. [00:08:29] PF: When we're talking about being able to use this land, how can that change our ability to feed ourselves and our communities? [00:08:36] DEH: Right. Well, I mean, if you're taking kind of like a world view, when we're talking about how are we going to feed the growing world population, because right now we're nearly eight billion people on this planet. By the end of the century, we're expected to be close to 11 billion people. If everybody on the planet eats like we do here in the United States and other Western countries, no, I don't think the land, as it stands, will sustain us because people will want to eat more meat in these other developing countries. The way we grow food today, I don't believe that is sustainable. So that's why it really is critical and so important that those of us who eat far too much meat do really pare back so that we can grow enough food to feed everybody because when you feed an animal, it's a middleman. You're feeding an animal thousands of calories, and you're only getting a few hundred calories out. So it's completely inefficient, and it wastes so many resources that could go to feeding humans. [00:09:40] PF: But it's kind of a hard sell for – I lived in Texas for many years. Before that, I grew up in Nebraska, and both of those are very fond of their beef. So it's a pretty tough sell to tell people this is the way we're going to be healthier and improve the planet. How do you kind of present that? What's your best marketing pitch, basically, for helping us give up some of this beloved beef and switching instead to more plants in our lives? [00:10:07] DEH: I mean, that's a really a great question, and I try to frame things to people as I don't want you to think about what you're giving up. I want you to think about what you're adding to your life. So for a lot of people, I know it's kind of hard to have a long-term approach to things. But if we really do cut back on our consumption of meat and dairy and add lots of fruits and vegetables and all of these whole grains and legumes that I was talking about earlier and maybe some of these plant-based meats that are out there, if we're really craving that flavor or texture, we're adding things rather than necessarily thinking about what we've taken away. For people who think I'm telling them, “You have to be vegan,” that's not what I'm saying. I'm not telling people you have to be vegan. But I am telling people, look, if we want to have a habitable, sustainable planet that will feed our children and their children, that's not a hothouse Earth that maybe we can't grow enough food. I think we all need to be more thoughtful and considerate about what we are putting on our plates. [00:11:17] PF: That’s well-said. As we become more mindful of that, what kind of changes would we see in the environment, and how is that going to start helping the Earth? [00:11:28] DEH: Right. Well, I mean, immediately, we would see that we require less water to grow feed for animals. That water instead could be used to replenish the aquifers and the water table that has been depleted. So I think, hopefully, we would see that the Earth would be a little bit moister. There'd be fewer wildfires. Of course, this would take time. It’s not like it would happen overnight, but it would be a slow progression. Same thing with the Amazon, we would see they would not need to cut down so much of the Amazon rainforest. So it could regenerate, and the water cycles could regenerate. That beautiful, lush forest that provides us with so much oxygen and water vapor and helps kind of control the climate in a way would regenerate. Because when you leave nature alone, it has this amazing capacity to kind of come back to its natural state. [00:12:28] PF: Yeah, that's interesting. I had the good fortune of being able to go to Antarctica on a ship, and one of the people on there was Dr. Steve Running, who won the Nobel Peace Prize for An Inconvenient Truth research. He talked about that. I said, “Well, talk about what's going on with our planet.” He said, “The Earth will find a way to survive. She may need to get rid of us first.” That I think was a really strong statement but a big wake up call for me. Like if we don't take care of our planet, she will find a way to survive, but we might not like what it means for us. [00:13:01] DEH: No, and I completely agree with that statement. Absolutely. I mean, the planet will survive beyond us. My biggest fear is, yes, how will we go down and how many other species will we take with us. [00:13:14] PF: Yeah, yeah. So changing mindset is so huge because we have these grassroots people that are doing it. There's people like yourselves. There's a lot of people who are working toward this, but it's not the majority. How do you get it to a tipping point where more people are saying, “All right, yeah. We want to work on this. We do want to save our planet. We want to live healthier, longer lives.”? [00:13:35] DEH: Yeah. No, I mean, that's a really great question. My argument would be I disagree that it's not the majority because if you look at some research out of Yale, two-thirds of Americans do actually believe in climate change. Maybe not two-thirds believe it's urgent, but two-thirds do believe in climate change in that it's a problem. So I think if we depend on the government to solve this for us or world organizations like we saw at COP26 in Glasgow, and we wait for these big groups to take this on, I agree. I think it's not necessarily going to happen. That's why at this grassroots level, individuals really do need to do something, in my opinion, whether it's eat more plant-based or buy clothing that's made out of natural materials like cotton or hemp or things of that nature, just because every little bit counts. Every little bit counts when you're talking about the planet and the environment. [00:14:38] PF: That's great because I think so many of us think we have to take extreme steps. We have – It needs to be extreme measures because we are in kind of hitting a dire situation. So I love the fact that you say like every little bit helps because we don't always feel like it does. [00:14:53] DEH: No, and it's true. That's another thing I do talk about a little bit in the book is I say, look, try one thing today. If you're be successful at it, which I think you will be and can be, maybe try something else tomorrow or next week, and build on what you're doing. It doesn't have to be one and done, and it doesn't have to be none and done. It can be one today, “Oh, my gosh. I saw – I was very successful of that. Let's see what I can add on tomorrow.” Yeah, baby steps can really empower you and help you realize that you are making a difference. Then educating others, which I talk about a lot as well. If people don't know, it's hard to care, and it's hard to make a difference, and it's hard to take action on something you may not really understand or be aware of. [00:15:37] PF: Yeah. So educating our children too is a huge part of this, raising them up with that mindset. How do parents start doing that? [00:15:45] DEH: I think, in our house, it's just part of the natural lexicon. We just talk about it kind of all the time. I mean, really, we get our son involved. We were up at the community garden this morning, and we were out there picking arugula from our garden, and he was down fetching water because apparently the irrigation was turned off. So we did. We had to go fetch water and take it back up to the plot. So I think if you get your children involved from an early age and don't make it feel onerous, make it into a fun family activity, it does come more naturally, and they will kind of almost autonomously and automatically become little environmentalists themselves. [00:16:31] PF: We love that. I also love that you brought up the community gardens because you talk about CSAs and community gardens and the role that they play in improving the environment. So talk about what they do because I think community gardens are just the coolest thing. I hadn't really thought about how beneficial they were. [00:16:48] DEH: Right. Well, so we belong to both. We joined a CSA, which stands for Community Supported Agriculture. So every week, we get this giant box, I kid you not, of vegetables and herbs and other greens from a local farm that's maybe 20, 30 miles away here in Los Angeles. It’s just – I mean, you'd be spending three times as much in a grocery store to buy this amount of greens. It's just beautiful. So not only are you supporting your local farmers and contributing to the local economy. You're also getting really super healthy farm fresh produce delivered right to your door without the use of plastic. Then as far as community gardens are concerned, a lot more urban areas are having them now. So you can join, and you basically are putting in what's called sweat equity, which means you work on the garden. But in return, you get to choose what goes in it. You also get to reap the rewards of what you have sown literally. You get to eat what you've grown. [00:17:53] PF: In addition to getting all this fresh food and being able to be with your neighbors, you say there's a lot of other benefits to having community gardens or growing our own food. So can you talk about what some of those benefits are? [00:18:05] DEH: I think some of those benefits are really both. Spending time in nature has proven psychological benefits on well-being. Working with others on a common goal also has really wonderful benefits for your emotions and just for connections, connecting with other people. Then, of course, being physically active while working on the garden has many health benefits, cardiovascular, fresh air. Other benefits of community gardens include just understanding and being one with nature, and understanding how food is grown, and realizing that, yes, it shows up at the grocery store. But when there are supply chain issues, that can be a major problem. So if you have the ability to grow some of your own, then that kind of gives you a little buffer. Then in areas that are food deserts or food-insecure, if you have the ability to grow some of your own produce, then that can be a little bit of an economic buffer for you. [00:19:06] PF: You can even do it indoors. Like if you're even in an apartment, you can have your tiny little inside garden. You don't have to have live on acreage to be able to have your own garden. [00:19:17] DEH: No. That's very true. In fact, we live in a condo, and we don't have land. So on our balcony, we have like three four large pots that we've grown basil in, and we've grown tomatoes, and we've grown other herbs, and we've made meals out of it. We've made our own pesto without the cheese because we don't eat cheese in our house, but it's delicious. When you get it literally that moment from your own little garden, I mean, it can make a meal. [00:19:48] PF: Yeah. I think a lot of people during the pandemic, and it has continued. I don't know if we're done with it yet or not anyway. Because we use the term post-pandemic but are we? I don't know. But people suddenly became aware in a very uncomfortable way how much we depend on the grocery store having what we need, and it didn't always happen that way. So did you see an increased interest in, say, growing your own food because of that? [00:20:16] DEH: I definitely saw an increased interest in making your own food. I know a lot of people went on the make your own sourdough bandwagon, including my own husband. Yeah. I know other people who were more interested in the community gardens because not only did it get them out into nature when, otherwise, perhaps they had to be in lockdown. But also, just I think people are kind of craving that oneness with each other or with nature. Just something they can interact with. [00:20:51] PF: The gardens certainly do both of those things. Yeah. Like you mentioned earlier, I know we're getting close on time, but you had mentioned earlier, and this really is a striking book because it is two parts. The first part is a horror story. It's like, “Here's where we're at, and here's what we've done, and here's what's going to happen if we continue down this path.” But then the second part is like, “Tada, happy.” It's very optimistic, and it gives actionable advice. What is it that gives you the most hope and optimism about the future of our planet? [00:21:26] DEH: Yeah. I think what gives me the most hope about the future of our planet is that people are more aware now than they were. I mean, it's taken time, but there is so much activism now about the environment and climate change. It’s constantly being discussed. Maybe not perhaps in the way I talk about it in the book and particularly not with some of the actions I recommend for what we can do because a lot of the talk is still about, oh, reducing your use of oil or reducing the amount of electricity you use. I mean, those are worthy causes, too. But I think what people need to realize is there are actually more impactful things that we can do, even beyond that, which does in some ways require government action, versus what we can do as individuals. So I think that's what gives me the most hope is that there is an interest for what can I do and what can I do now to make a difference. [00:22:28] PF: What is it that you hope that people most get from reading your book? [00:22:32] DEH: Right. If I had to choose what I would want people most to take away from this book is that, really, you can make a difference, and you don't need to feel despondent. You don't need to feel overwhelmed on what feels like an overwhelming topic because it really can feel overwhelming. I've been there. I know what it feels like. In a way, this is a memoir to me because it's, well, all the things that I have done to make a difference, and it's all the things that I encourage others to do to make a difference. But it's a recipe. It's step one. It’s step two. It’s step three. It’s step four. You don't have to feel alone in this. There are plenty of other people interested, wanting to do good. So I think that's what I want people to take away. [00:23:19] PF: That's terrific. Dana, I appreciate you taking time to sit down with me today, talk about this. Like I said, we're going to tell people how they can find you and how they can learn more because this is an important conversation and, obviously, one that we need to keep having for years to come. [00:23:33] DEH: Well, thank you so much. I'm grateful for your very thoughtful questions and appreciate your time as well. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:23:45] PF: That was Dana Ellis Hunnes, author of Recipe For Survival: What You Can Do to Live a Healthier and More Environmentally Friendly Life. If you'd like to learn more about her book, follow her on social media. Find out how you can get a free copy of her book. Visit our website at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day how happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: How Social Media Influences Your Happiness With Jessie Kanzer    [INTRODUCTION] [00:00:02] PF: Welcome to Episode 355 of Live Happy Now. Throughout the month of March, we're celebrating the International Day of Happiness, and a whole month of happy acts. As part of this year's celebration, we're looking at the theme of unity. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm joined by Jessie Kanzer, author of Don't Just Sit There, DO NOTHING. Much of Jessie's work looks at social media and how we can become more mindful about it to minimize its negative impact. Sit back, and let's hear what Jessie has to say. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:36] PF: Jessie, welcome to Live Happy Now. [00:00:38] JK: Thank you so much, Paula. [00:00:41] PF: This is the perfect time to talk to you, not just because your new book is out, but because we are doing this whole month celebrating the International Day of Happiness on March 20th, and really doing a whole month of happy acts. Our theme this year is unity. Anytime we have a discussion about unity and conflict, it seems that social media comes up. This is something that you talk about. I wanted to talk today about how it affects the way we feel about ourselves and the world around us. To kick it off, you talk about why this one thing called social media is so powerful. [00:01:15] JK: Yes, and I do talk a lot about it. Because, like you said, it's so prevalent. Before we talk about what's wrong with it, let's just acknowledge what a big part of our life has become. In fact, in my book, Don't Just Sit There, DO NOTHING, I have a chapter called Stop the Thumb, which you can interpret it as you will, but it's about stopping that scrolling thumb that never stops itself. I do think that it's easier said than done. You could easily just tell people, just get off social media. I've heard that so many times. Just get off of it. Realistically speaking, for a lot of us, for creatives, like myself, for podcasts, there's a lot of need for social media, for the businesses and for the positive information we're trying to spread. We can't just get off social media, because that's where we now reach people, because that's where people are. It's not as easy anymore to just say get off of it, or cancel your accounts. Because for a lot of people, that's not something you can do. Our livelihood has begun to depend on social media as well. What's happened is, the lines have blurred between – There used to be clear cut marketing, clear cut advertising. That would be the commercial on TV, or the radio spot that played. Now, it's not quite so. We are on Instagram, on Facebook, on TikTok, seemingly just entertaining ourselves, or scrolling through what our friends are doing, etc. We are also being advertised to all the time. What I don't love, to start with social media, there's no longer a line between what's just content for you to consume and what's actually content that is trying to influence your behavior. [00:03:10] PF: Yeah. It can quickly change the way that you think and the way that you perceive things. If you've liked certain things, the algorithms are going to send material to you, and it can take you down a rabbit hole. It can start changing the way you view society, the way you view yourself, the way you view your neighbors. [00:03:29] JK: Yes. I don't know if you have watched the film Social Dilemma. I remember watching it last year. It's scary, right? I think that I actually wish everyone in the world would have watched it. Because what I now understand and what helps me a lot is knowing that this construct exists to learn me, to stay there as long as possible. That it is addictive to me, not because there's something wrong with me, but because it was formulated to be addictive. Once you realize that, you can at least start to forgive yourself a little for the time you're spending that you lose on social media without realizing, because we've all found ourselves in those holes that you mentioned. You're like, “Why have I just been on here for 20 minutes, half an hour?” [00:04:15] PF: I know it lift your head up and you're like, “What just happened to me?” [00:04:18] JK: Yeah. It was formulated to do that. That's what it's formulated to do. Like you said, it does – Unfortunately, the way the algorithm works is it picks up on what you're there looking at and what you're doing. It'll send you more and more and more of that. If we look at politics, we know what happens. What happens is we end up in echo chambers, where we just hear what we already believe, and then we become more and more convinced. It doesn't matter if it's truth or not truth, because it becomes our truth. [00:04:48] PF: Yeah, and one thing that's happened in this time of isolation and more people are working remotely and we're not interacting, so we don't have that time where we call it the water cooler, but where you’re grabbing a cup of coffee in the break room and you're talking to someone who has a different opinion, you had more balance, I feel. There was more of a balance of input of ideologies and just thoughts, and whether or not you agreed with them, you're hearing different opinions. [00:05:15] JK: I think that when you're speaking with a person, an actual person face-to-face, they don't become this demon that sometimes people become on social media. We're just people. For some reason, the screen of anonymity that Twitter, for example, can provide where just somebody's name, and it's not their real name; some name that they chose for their account. They can say pretty nasty things. They could say whatever they want. They wouldn't say that to you in real life, face-to-face. [00:05:46] PF: Oh, yeah. Getting on Twitter feels like going into a street fight. I'm like, “I need a helmet and a shield.” It's tough. [00:05:55] JK: Yeah. Then on the other hand, you have Instagram, which has been shown to be very detrimental to young people. I, myself as someone who struggled with an eating disorder as a teenager, and then in my early 20s, I really, really caution parents to pay a lot of attention to what their kids are consuming. It's hard. I'm not saying it's easy to always be on them. I know. I mean, my kids are only five and seven. Already, sometimes I look over, what is she watching? It's not easy, but I think it's super important. Because as we understood, Instagram will keep providing for you the content that you're looking at. If you're a young girl, and you're becoming obsessed with your body image, you will keep seeing things that will keep making you feel more insecure, and maybe take you down a rabbit hole of years of less than a healthy existence. That's what happened to me just from teen mags. I can imagine that being the age of social media is more challenging. [00:06:55] PF: Absolutely. As we've acknowledged, civility is a big issue. It is a big issue, even in the real world now. On social media, it is amplified. One thing I really want to talk with you is how can we start using our social media to become unified, rather than divided? By unified, I don't mean that we just find all these people who think the same way we do and it's, we're right, and they're wrong. How do we bridge that? [00:07:25] JK: I have a couple of suggestions. [00:07:27] PF: I was hoping you would. [00:07:30] JK: Yeah. With how we can create healthier relationships. Because, again, like I said, for a lot of us, just quitting social media altogether is not an option. I believe that learning how to live with something is the most, the strongest act that we can do for ourselves as someone. I struggled at an early age with bulimia. Now, I see similarities here because, well, in order to get over bulimia, you have to get over the behavior of binging on food. but you can't get rid of eating food as a whole, because we need food to live. What you need to do is actually change your entire relationship with food into a healthy relationship, and it takes time. Doing the same thing with social media, it's not going to happen overnight. One thing, for me, my social media is very healing. I made the algorithm work for me. When I go on my Instagram feed, I'm really posting and looking for spiritual insight, upliftment, information on well-being. The more I was paying attention to that and not allowing myself to go down the rabbit hole of what's Kim Kardashian doing, or what's whoever else, I just decided, this was my focus time to make it work for me. I would go on for short periods of time, I would post something, whether it be a quote from Don't Just Sit There, DO NOTHING, or maybe a little discussion about what's going on right now and some positive take on that. Then I would look for people, again, who weren't necessarily exactly my opinion, but people who were putting something positive out into the world. I follow, for example, podcasts that are positive podcasts, that are uplifting podcasts. The more I did that, I would also concurrently unfollow stuff that would trigger me. Anything I saw, which I realized was just putting more drama out into my feed, I would just unfollow. Simply, I would follow what lifted me up, unfollow what brought me down. Just paying attention and creating an awareness of how any post makes you feel is very important. If we can bring in mindfulness, which is a practice that can be brought into anything, like mindfulness can be brought into, even into social media. [00:10:02] PF: Yeah, that's good. I'm glad you brought that up, because I was going to ask you, what role mindfulness plays when you're managing your social media. [00:10:09] JK: I practice mindfulness. I try to practice mindfulness all day, every day. I mean, obviously, I'm not perfect. I'm human, but I try to be mindful when I'm folding my kids’ laundry, and when I'm trying to get them out and rush them out in the morning to their bus. I try to bring in a little mindfulness there, so that what mindfulness is, is being in the present and being connected to exactly what you're doing right now. We know that. I know that your audience knows that. You know what? It can be brought to, once you bring mindfulness into what you're doing on social media, you take yourself out of that dynamic that was set up, which was just to have you be a user. Let's remember that we're called users in the social media world. Not consumers, users. Okay, you pay attention, you go a little slower. First of all, you slow down that thumb. You go a little slower. You pause, every time you see something and you ask yourself, “Is this something I want to see more of?” If not, simply unfollow. Not that hard. Just unfollow. Something I want to see more of, press a like. What happens is slowly, your feed starts to look like yourself. My feed, if you looked at it, would be like, “Oh, I get who Jessie is. She's into the whole woo-woo world, she’s a wellness fanatic.” I think, that if everyone can do that, it will not be this alienating place anymore. I mean, for me, so I have a whole community on social media. My mentor, Laura Day, she's an intuitive. She holds morning meetings, where we just gather and we work on something positive for ourselves, and it's a short thing. You were talking about unity. I thought it's really interesting, because I found this community. She calls us the circle. These folks are just there. They're there. If I post something, they're there with some support. Like for my book launch, they're there with their positive affirmations, or helping to spread the word. In my experience, I now feel that I have unity in social media. [00:12:17] PF: That's amazing. Because so few people feel that way right now. [00:12:22] JK: Absolutely. That's why this is something. I discuss this in detail in the book, in the Stop the Thumb chapter. It's about, first of all, becoming mindful about what we consume. Also, this is an important one, be the change you want to see. You become mindful about what you post. [SPONSOR MESSAGE] [00:12:43] PF: I'm going to be right back with more of my conversation with Jessie. I wanted to take a moment to talk about one great alternative to social media. If you're looking to stop the mindless scrolling, how about putting your hands to use doing puzzles? Puzzles are a great gadget-free way to give your brain a break. We recently discovered Unidragon Puzzles, which you really need to see to believe. These gorgeous wooden puzzles are works of art that feature nature scenes, animals, Mandalas, and so much more. If you're looking to kick your social media habit, or at least rein it in, I can't think of a better way to do it than by spending time with these puzzles. Right now, you can get 10% off your order when you visit unidragon.com enter the code Live Happy Now. That's unidragon.com, and the code is Live Happy Now. Now, let's get back to my conversation with Jessie Kanzer and learn more about how to handle our social media habits. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [00:13:40] PF: I'm glad we're talking about this. Because there's something that you said that completely changed the way I was posting. That was, paying attention to your ego, and why I'm posting this. The fact that hey, I'm showing somebody I was having this great time, but how does this affect how somebody else feels? Can you pick that up? Because that is just beautiful insight that I needed to know. [00:14:05] JK: Of course. Paula, we're not, again, we're not perfect. Sometimes, I just have this freaking cute picture of the kids. I got to put it up and I just can't – You know what? The intention behind what you post is everything. Because if I just think this is the cutest, funniest thing in the world and I post it, often I get back, that made my day. I think, the intention behind what we post is very important. We all have an ego. It's okay that we have an ego. It’s okay that sometimes we want to show how well we're doing. It's all fine. We need to go back and remember that every time we post about what we have, somebody else is reminded, what they don't have. I remember this a lot during the days of everyone getting engaged in my own circle of friends. I remember this constant barrage. I had a lot of relationship difficulties at that time. I just remembered this barrage of engagement rings. It used to annoy me so much. If I look at it and why it annoyed me, of course, it's about what was missing in my own life, but also, was just – it felt so show-offy. I don't think that's what people are trying to do completely, but it's also the lack of bringing mindfulness into our post. It became what we're supposed to do. The second you get engaged, you post directly. [00:15:31] PF: I actually have a friend, who, when her son and daughter-in-law got married, the first thing the girl turned around, they kiss the bride, they turn around, they were announced as husband and wife and she yelled out, “Somebody change my Facebook status.” [00:15:43] JK: That’s really funny. That’s really funny. I get it. I get it. It's an exciting time. Boy, it felt like such a win for me, because I had such a long, barrage of heartbreaks. When I got married, I get it. Everything is okay when you put mindfulness into it, because at least you're aware, even if you're breaking that rule once or twice, you're aware, but you're not going to be sleepwalking anymore. That's really helpful. The other thing I say is, okay, fine. Once in a while, we want to post something that we did that was really fun, that was really beautiful, that we want to share. Remember to also, at least once in a while, share the vulnerabilities of your life, the stuff that maybe didn't go right. That's where actually, I found my sweet spot on social media, and maybe in my writing as a whole. I write a lot about my humiliations in life. I'm very, very open about all of the mistakes I made, because my goal is to help people feel less alone, if they are themselves finding that they're in this “loser spot” in their life, where they feel like a loser. I know what that feels like. I say, I try to hold on to the humility of a loser no matter where I am in life, because I really believe that if we open ourselves and show everyone the bad stuff, as well as the good stuff, we're doing a service to everyone else who may be struggling right now. [00:17:21] PF: Absolutely. I just love the way that because of you, I just do a little bit of a gut check before I post something now. It's like that. Okay, why am I doing this? Am I doing this for my own, because I want to show off, the fact that I got to drive this car? Or, am I doing it because I really want to share this experience? You know what? I'm leaving a lot of stuff off now. Because it's like, no, this was really not about uplifting someone else. It's about, “Hey, I got to do this really cool thing.” That’s how it feels. [00:17:51] JK: You know what, Paula? I love that you tell me that. That is so amazing to hear. Because, and again, if you do that gut check, and maybe you just saw a gorgeous sunset, and you want to post that, because you want to share the feeling of seeing this gorgeous sunset. Well, go ahead. That is a beautiful intention to have. It's not about, “Hey, look at me. What I get to see.” It's about, I want to share this with you. It's just about that small shift in intention that I think can connect us together. I try to balance. Obviously, I also promote stuff. I have to promote my book, because I want people to know about it. Again, I go back to the intention. I want to spread awareness about something I created out of love, because I want people to feel less alone, and I want people to have tools for healing. Then I say to myself, “That's okay to promote that, because I have an intention that's a loving intention in there.” [00:18:46] PF: Yeah. Once we get our own feeds under control, and we start curating what we're consuming, what do we do then about those posts? We cannot control what other people post. Sometimes it might be on our own page. How do we deal with those posts that immediately incite us? [00:19:03] JK: We take a deep breath. We pause and we delete. Seriously, or untag, or unfollow whatever you can do, but we don't engage. If it's something that is inciting you, I suggest you walk away from it. If it's something that you feel an hour later, or two hours later that you want to engage in, then go ahead, but from a commerce standpoint. Again, the intention of what you're bringing to this interaction is not that anger that you initially feel. It's not that triggered feeling. Maybe you're coming in to, because you feel that it's important to provide some truthful information. [00:19:41] PF: Well, a lot of times if we feel compelled to do that, and I've not done this, because I've seen what happens to people and it's a lot like a bunny rabbit walking in a herd of coyotes. It's like, someone feels compelled to explain like, “Look, this is why I feel differently.” They are pounced on and not – it doesn't stop and till they're a carcass pretty much. [00:20:03] JK: Yeah. I’ve seen that. [00:20:05] PF: Yeah. How do you do that? If it's someone, say, what's happening with a lot of people is someone they truly care about, whether it's a family, close friend, whatever, will say something that is so opposed to how they feel. That other person feels the need to – Like say, I might feel the need to say, “Look, that's really not where I'm coming from. This is why I think that way.” What's a better way to approach that? [00:20:26] JK: I would, in my personal experience, I probably would not. I would not engage in that in social media, on social media. If you feel strongly enough and if this person is in your life, there are other ways to connect with people. There's the telephone. I do find – [00:20:43] PF: Oh, is that still around? What? That thing? [00:20:45] JK: It's interesting. I find that the further removed we are from each other, right, so we're talking about the watercooler conversations. Then, you take that to a phone conversation, where you still hear each other's voice, and you can talk. Then you take that one step further removed, and maybe you're texting, and then a little further, and you're just posting something on social media for all to see. The further removed we get from each other as humans, the dirtier it can become. I don't see a need. Here's the thing. Yes, people post misinformation on social media. I say, and this is what the Daodejing has taught me; this is what I write about also in my book is, you cannot change the entire world. But in preserving your balance your sanity, in being the best you you can be, the changes that you provide for this world are going to be much bigger than you can imagine. Anything that is going to interfere with your well-being, don't do it. [00:21:50] PF: That's great advice. We know that, but we're not taking it. It's a weird time. One thing that you say – I know we're running out of time, but we've got to talk about this, because this is a great barometer. You say that people really need to pay attention to how they feel when they're on social media. We do not do that. Why is that so important? Then, what is it that we should be looking for? [00:22:14] JK: Yes. I think, we should pay attention to how we feel at all times. My joke of a title, Don't Just Sit There, DO NOTHING, the book is really, it's not about doing nothing, but it's about being able to disconnect from all of the messages, which because of social media, or just never-ending, to connect with our own inner voice. When we take the time to do that, when we connect with our own inner compass, we feel off. When we feel off, we know that we're off. In other words, I call it awareness. I say, your awareness is your superpower. The more you connect with your inner compass, the more you're able to feel when you're off. For me, honestly, when I get on social media, and I just started scrolling blindly, I'm often about 0.2 seconds. I realized that sometimes I do it anyway. I'm not saying that I'm perfect. The awareness is the superpower, because do I really want to be off 20 times a day? It helps us get that behavior under control, is by being aware and really being mindful of how we feel. What we should be looking for is a feeling of upliftment, connection, even neutrality, where you're just like, maybe you've learned something. The second you feel jealous, because jealousy is something that comes up a lot in social media, because people are posting from their egos. When the second you feel jealous, or you feel triggered, get off. Get off as soon as you can and do anything else. I even suggest to people, well, go turn on the TV. Even that is better than the way you get sucked in by the algorithms of social media. My other quick advice is to be mindful of the amount of time you spend. I say, if you've really gotten out of control, and you know when you have. We all know, do a timer, right before you enter your Instagram, enter your Facebook feed, press the timer, say five minutes. That's what I'm letting myself go on for. Then my one final piece of advice, which is really hard, but it's important. Don't sleep with your phone right next to your bed. [00:24:23] PF: Right. Yeah, that's super important. Because I know people that do that. I put mine on airplane mode at night. [00:24:30] JK: That’s really helpful. [00:24:30] PF: People are like, “What if something happens?” It's like, I will find out. I will find out later.” I will be rested and able to deal with it. [00:24:39] JK: Exactly. You'll be in your best shape. I tell people, so we cannot ignore the fact that we're all addicts when it comes to technology; social media, Google, etc. Google News, Apple news, whatever. We're all addict, because this is our first time in history where we're dealing with this kind of barrage of technology and information. Yeah, we're all addicted. We don't have to constantly put this source of addiction right in front of us. Somebody recovering from alcoholism would not sleep with a bottle of vodka right next to their bed. That's how we need to treat ourselves gently, but admit to ourselves that we're addicts, because we're human and we're dealing with machines created to lure us. [00:25:26] PF: That is so great, Jessie. Man, we could talk for hours, but they won't let us. This is terrific. You've given us so much to think about. Your book, we're going to tell people how they can find you, find your book, learn more about this. Thank you for the work that you're doing, and for spending time with me today to talk about this. This is such an important topic. [00:25:46] JK: It is such a pleasure for me, Paula, because my intention is to spread just a little bit of light. If we all do that, I think the world can change. [00:25:55] PF: I love it. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:26:01] PF: That was Jessie Kanzer, talking about how to create a healthier relationship with your social media. If you'd like to learn more about Jessie, follow her on her very healthy social media channels, or pick up a book. Just visit our website at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. Remember to check out those amazing puzzles at unidragon.com and get a 10% discount by entering the code Live Happy Now. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]