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Follow along with the transcript below for episode: How Music Shapes Your Mind With Renee Fleming   [INTRO] [00:00:04] PF: What’s up, everybody? This is Paula Felps, and you are listening to On a Positive Note. Renowned soprano, Renee Fleming has performed on some of the world's biggest stages, performing in operas, concert, theater, and film. And she was the first classical artist ever to sing the national anthem at the Super Bowl. But now, the five-time Grammy award winner is using her voice to help improve our wellbeing. For her new book, Music and Mind: Harnessing the Arts for Health and Wellness, Renee has curated a collection of essays from leading scientists, artists, musicians, creative arts therapists, educators, and healthcare providers about the powerful impact of music and arts on health and the human experience. She's here to talk about how this project came about and why she is so committed to sharing this message. [INTERVIEW]   [0:00:53] PF: Renee, thank you so much for joining me today.   [0:00:56] RF: Thank you, Paula. It's great to be with you.   [0:00:58] PF: Oh, it's such an honor to have you on the show. Most of us know you as an acclaimed and accomplished performer, but what our listeners may not know is that you are also an incredible advocate for the healing power of music. So, I was curious to know how you began discovering that.   [0:01:14] RF: It was basically, I'm a performing artist, so I've known my whole career that it has a powerful effect on people, the music. I've gotten so many letters and met so many people who have said, "Your music got me through cancer, or lost, or any number of things." But I was surprised to find that researchers were studying music in the brain. I was following all of that kind of armchair, newspaper reading bits about this type of research, because I had somatic pain that I was trying to unravel, and understand. Like, "Why my body was producing pain so that I wouldn't perform?" It was kind of a connection to stage fright, but a connection to performance pressure overall. So, that's how I stumble across this and then I met, Dr. Francis Collins at a dinner party, which he outlines in the introduction of the book. But it was extraordinary, because I had just started as advisor to the Kennedy Center, and I said, "You know, I think the audience would be incredibly interested in this. Do you think we could provide a platform for the science?" Because he had a new brand initiative at the National Institutes of Health, and he said, "We're discovering that music, and incredibly powerful, it activates all known mapped areas of the brain when we engage with music."   [0:02:34] PF: Do you think that it helps that you're coming from as a performer versus a scientist? Are people more willing to maybe listen to you or attend something that you're doing than if it was going to be an academic who is presenting on it?   [0:02:50] RF: Well, when I perform, doing a wonderful National Geographic program now, then I'm touring around, certainly the US, but I hope to get to other countries as well with it. I'll be in Paris with this project. So, they made this stunning film, and it goes with an album that I won a Grammy for last year, called Voice of Nature: The Anthropocene. But as I tour and perform, I offer to these performing arts venues, and programmers a presentation on Music and Mind. I bring the audience and they're actually cast with finding local researchers, healthcare providers, therapists, music therapists, art therapists. It's broader than music, although music has probably, I would say, the most research at this point. Because it was easier to measure than dance or visual art, but they're all powerful.   [0:03:41] PF: Is it a challenge to make it accessible to a general audience, or do you find that's pretty easy to do?   [0:03:47] RF: I would have thought so, but I'm the general audience. When I sat for two days at the National Institutes of Health, and heard ten-minute presentations in panels, two days of it by all the scientists and researchers. I thought, "I'm not going to get any of this" and I loved it, I ate it right up. I think we know intrinsically, and we know kind of instinctively that the arts have power. But now that science is vetting it, validating it, bringing a body if rigorous research to back it up, and paying for it. So, the NIH spent $40 million just on music and research, mostly neuroscience. It's incredible. And they're going to continue to spend money because there's a there there, and it is healing, and especially for a specific – at this point, we have some very proven tracks of the research. Then, they'll continue to kind of build on that.   [0:04:45] PF: Do you think that's going to help with funding arts in schools, because right now, that's a big challenge. I know I live near a small community that just got its band program cut, because they had to choose between football and band. So, do you think as we see more research and funding goes into that, is that going to change how schools and educators view it?   [0:05:04] RF: Well, there's a whole section on education in this, because research has studied the benefits of it. It shows that it improves focus, it improves attention in terms of kind of tuning out extreme noise. We know about self-discipline, obviously, and some of the things that come just with practice. But it also help kids with identity, with the sense of building their own individualness, and creativity, frankly. Steve Jobs wrote an incredible book on – actually, it was Walter Isaacson about him and creativity is all through it and the arts. All that all came from the arts. So, I definitely think that not only do we need arts education back in schools, because also, truancy is a huge issue. We're having real problems after the pandemic with kids not coming back to school. But if it's only S, and not STEM, you'll find that a lot of kids will just check out, because they need to be engaged in things they enjoy. So, yes, I feel strongly about that.   [0:06:07] PF: That's incredible.   [0:06:08] RF: I also think, frankly, the creative arts therapist would be a huge benefit to schools, to add them as adjunct to the arts educators. Because they're trained in pro-social training, they're in pro-social behaviors, they're trained in a very different way from, say, arts educators, and they would work really well together, and also lift morale for the whole thing.   [0:06:29] PF: Yes, because we talked so much right now about Gen Z and anxiety. Gen Alpha is going to be an extension of that. As your book really shows, there's so many ways that music could be the bomb that treats a lot of those issues.   [0:06:45] RF: Absolutely. I saw turnaround arts at work in DC. That was the initiative that uses all the arts. The class that I witnessed was visual art. What the teacher said to me – first of all, the kids were so quiet because they were so engaged in learning – this was second grade, learning about photosynthesis. They were drawing and it comes to life for them. If you marry the two things together, education works well. A couple of the teachers said to me, it really works for trauma, for kids who have all kinds of different kinds of trauma. Visual art therapy is extremely helpful. Music therapy is more of a one-on-one activity, or a therapist with a group. Of course, choirs. A lot of science now showing an incredible benefit by singing in choirs.   [0:07:32] PF: One thing that you did during the pandemic was your Music and Mind Live with Renee Fleming. That was an amazing program. We're going to include a link to that on the landing page for this, because it's still out there. People can still go. As you said, music helps with trauma, and COVID, the pandemic, the lockdown, that was a trauma for us collectively.   [0:07:55] RF: Definitely.   [0:07:55] PF: What is that? You received almost 700,000 streams on that program. I really encourage our listeners to go check this out. What do you think it was that resonated so well with everyone? Because I know it resonated with me, but what were you seeing?   [0:08:10] RF: It was viewed in 70 countries, so that was exciting too. I think it was the lockdown, actually that prompted people's interest, because we found out immediately that everyone's response to COVID and to isolation was to try to reach out creatively in all different kinds of ways, rooftops to windows. So, that was a real aha moment, I think for people, so this all really made sense, it hit home. People had to stop and kind of remember our roots.   [0:08:41] PF: As you studied it, is there anything that you found particularly surprising? What has been like the main learning point for you about what music is doing for us and can do?   [0:08:51] RF: Well, there were couple of things. I mean, one is, a researcher in the Midwest, Jacquelyn Kulinski, who discovered that singing two or three times a week improves vascular health in people with, to some degree of cardiac failure. That really surprised me. But the analysis is that, for this population who are often sedentary, they're probably not well enough to be running on a treadmill, singing is exercise. The pulmonary benefits of singing for lung COVID. That's sort of a no brainer, I get that, because we're all about breathing. Another recent one that surprised me was that, a study in the UK on post-partum depression. They found that, actually singing in a choir is more beneficial than any other activity to treat post-partum depression. The worst depression, the more it works.   [0:09:42] PF: Oh, interesting.   [0:09:44] RF: The countries in Europe are adopting this now. The World Health Organization is working on an initiative to get this adopted in other countries as an actual treatment.   [0:09:52] PF: That's amazing. We need to overhear. Less drugs and more music, right?   [0:09:57] RF: Absolutely, yes. Absolutely.   [0:10:00] PF: As you've learned all this, has it changed your relationship with music at all? Has it change how you perform or has it change what you listen to when you're not performing?   [0:10:08] RF: The answer is yes. This year, come January 1st, one of the last chapters in the book is about the NeuroArts Blueprint. I work very closely with them. Susan Magsamen and Ruth Katz have created an extraordinary visionary initiative that blends in all kind of aesthetic experiences. So, nature is number one. Nature, music is one of the large research areas, but it's also architecture, visual art, and dance, and more. I think the encouragement in her book, Your Brain on Art, that was a bestseller last year, is that we all can engage with art forms, whether it's doodling or watercolor, we can do anything. We can sing to ourselves. January 1st, I just said, "This is going to be a rough year. I am not going to get sucked into looking at my news feed all day. I am going to live in the NeuroArts Blueprint." So, I'm reading one novel after another. I'm going to plays. I'm going to concerts, opera, of course. I'm walking out in nature every day and I can't tell you how much happy I am. It really works.   [0:11:14] PF: That's amazing. That is something I think, well, Live Happy should be just sharing that like every week.   [0:11:20] RF: Thanks. Absolutely.   [0:11:21] PF: Because that is a big concern for people, the climate right now. By that, I mean, of course, the political climate, and the news that we're getting, and the division that's going on. And so, yes, to understand that within your book, there's actually a blueprint that tells us how we can avoid this is an incredible gift, like, run don't walk, go find it.   [0:11:42] RF: No question. The idea is that, of course, we want to be active and activate the things that we can that each of us as individuals are capable for any of those things that we care about. But you can't live it all day long. Most of us are not in a position to be able to do this. It's not our job, it's not our family. So therefore, you have to create some balance for yourself. Anyway, that's working for me.   [0:12:06] PF: That's incredible. Let's talk more about the book, because it is an incredible volume of work. It's essays from musicians, researchers, writers, educators, healthcare experts. How did the idea for the book come about? Because this is massive and I'm just trying to imagine sitting down and saying, "I'm going to have 600 pages, and it's non -academic."   [0:12:26] RF: So, I was inspired by David Rubenstein, who's the chairman of the Kennedy Center, who has a couple of TV shows and he decided at some point to take his interviews and publish them. He would edit them. I'm in his first book, which was about leadership. I thought, that is a great model. Forgetting the word out even more about the intersection of arts, and health, and the benefits of it. So, that was the idea. Of course, in my naive thinking, I thought, other people, they're going to write their chapters, and so, this will be easy. Took almost three years. It was a huge amount of work. Jason, who's on with us now, I couldn't have done it without him. I'm so proud of it. It's a really magical and unique book because there's nothing else like it. My publisher said, he was just so moved because he had no idea any of this was happening. There are stories of young people who are visionary, who've seen need in their communities, and they create incredible programs. Like Francisco Nunez in New York, who created a choir program to mix kids of different social strata. There's one in Philadelphia too, that's based on El Sistema, which is this incredible group, it's called Play on Philly. Then, you have all the artist chapters, Rosanne Cash's chapter [inaudible 0:13:47], an undiagnosed brain disorder that had to be operated on. And of course, for 10 years, people were telling her, "Well, I think you have headaches. I think it's probably hormonal." This is women in healthcare. So, her chapter is incredible, but they're really interesting. You can kind of just drop the needle on things that interest you. It's not a book that you would ever need to read cover to cover, unless you're that kind of person.   [0:14:12] PF: That's what I loved about it, because you can choose what speaks to you at that time and whatever kind of approach you want. If you want it to be sciency, we can certainly go find that. It's really something for everyone and meets the reader where they're at.   [0:14:28] RF: Really, if you're interested too, because some of the chapters are about movement disorders, really relate to people who have friends and family dealing with that, and/or Alzheimer's and dementias. It's fascinating to learn about the science. It starts with Evolution, Ani Patel, and then Dan Levitin, who also has a new book coming out in August, who does neuroanatomy for us. And Nina Kraus does hearing, why everything you wanted to know about how sound affects us. That sets it up, and then you can pick and choose your kind of subjects.   [0:15:01] PF: So, how did you decide who would participate in the book? Because you have an all-star cast there.   [0:15:06] RF: Some of its availability too, especially for the artist chapters, but everyone had to be related to this in some way. But I wanted to present a wide variety of – show the breadth of the field as it is now. In fact, if I were to do it now, I would probably make it even broader, and include more of the other art forms, because I know more people now. Every year, as I present and am involved, I meet people in different sectors who, again, are related. Health and wellness is so important to us right now, pain, some of the research on pain. I have a friend, actually, this is not in the book, but she had a type of aneurysm, a bleed in her brain, and was in excruciating pain from it, and couldn't – n lights, no looking at screens. The doctor said, "Listen to music." She discovered that the only music that helped her was Jimi Hendrix as loud as she could possibly play it. The minute the volume came down or it turned off, the pain came flooding back. So, I sent this, I thought that was surprising. I sent this to some of the neurologists who were working at the NIH. I said, "What do you make of this?" They sent me a study that had sort of brain photos, FMRI photos of excruciating pain in the brain, which was like circles, and red, and thick. Then, same person listening to music, and all the red was gone, all of the symptoms had subsided. So, to what degree, I don't know, but it was right there. There was a visual representation of how listening to music can affect pain.   [0:16:43] PF: I think people would be just absolutely amazed to find out how many different areas it affects. I think we all maybe have our own interests. I used to write about heart disease. I know some things about how music affects hearts. But with your book, it's almost like there is nothing that music doesn't affect.   [0:17:03] RF: It's kind of remarkable, but I can only – the thing that – I had a hard time understanding it when I first was exposed to all of this, even as a musician, but it was evolution that really gave me the way in to understanding why it is so powerful.   [0:17:18] PF: So, what would you consider music's best kept secret to be?   [0:17:23] RF: Well, those are definitely some things. But when you think about what's in the future, for instance, there is a 40 hertz vibration study at MIT that is showing with both light and sound that a very specific speed of wave can clean up plaques in the brain. So, imagine you'd go to CBS someday and step into a booth and practice hygiene for your brain. You could also embed that in music because it's not a very attractive sound, the 40 Hertz, which a composer at or MIT did, I performed this piece. Again, you could go to a concert hall, and come out, and be that much kind of fresher, cognitively. So, there are some amazing things in the future, I think.   [0:18:07] PF: I love that. As people listen, they're like, "Well, music can do all these amazing things for us, but how do we start?" We see how scientists can do it. We see what researchers are doing. How does an everyday person who's listening to this, how can they start using that power of music?   [0:18:21] RF: I would say, we do it already, we all use it. We use it to work out, we use it – we kind of use it as a tool to help us do something. For instance, when I walk on flat, I don't enjoy it. I like hiking in hills, but I don't care for walking on flat as much. So, I have trouble keeping my tempo up. But if you audiate, which is a musical term, if you imagine a song with a brisk tempo, and beat like This Land is your Land, you'll keep your pace, and you don't even have to play it out loud. So, that's useful because I can still talk to people and kind of have that in the background in my head. Then, the other thing is definitely for anxiety. I highly recommend that people use music for anxiety and depression. So, Dr. Vivek Murthy, our Surgeon General talks about this now. Music is really powerful for depression, and we have natural opioids in the brain that can be released with this. There's no question that it's beneficial. Now, here's the trick. It's all taste-based. It's what you like, what speaks to you. I can't tell you, "Here's a playlist with 10 pieces. They might work, but you might find something better." So, that's something that's always interesting to explain, because people assume, because it's me, it's classical music, but it's not. It's really individual.   [0:19:38] PF: I remember attending a brain health seminar in Cincinnati several years ago, and they had been working with brain injury, and there was a teenager who was in there with a bunch of non-teenagers, and he only wanted to listen to heavy metal. They're like, "That's going to fry his brain." So, they finally were like, "Let's try it." That's what he responded to. He had a TBI, and he responded well to heavy metal music.   [0:20:04] RF: I had a music therapist, actually, tell me in Atlanta who works with veterans that when she wants to calm down, she listens to Metallica. So, the whole room just went, "What?"   [0:20:15] PF: Enter Sandman, okay.   [0:20:18] RF: Right. Yes. So, yes, there's no question about that individuality. There's a beautiful chapter by a music therapist named, Tom Sweitzer, who has a kid come in who is really almost becoming a danger to himself and the people around him. His way in was heavy metal. This kid has stayed with him and continued all his therapy. But this is a really creative therapist who's built the largest, I would say, private music therapy organization in the country. It's in Middleburg, Virginia. He serves the whole community. So, that's a picture that shows what can happen.   [0:20:52] PF: It has so many blessings for us. It has so much hope for us. We're going to tell our listeners how they can find this book and how they can find your Music and Mind Live series. But as I let you go, what is your biggest hope for this book? What do you want people to get from it, and what do you hope it does to be part of the language about how we view music in mind?   [0:21:13] RF: Well, I hope people share it. I mean, I hope – it would be a great birthday or holiday gift for any music lover in your family or arts lover. Frankly, my whole purpose for doing this is because I am passionate about the work. It has affected me tremendously. It's not my field, it's not what I do, but I've become sort of the chief advocate. I love the people that I meet through the world, the scientists, and the researchers, and the therapists, and the whole ecosystem. I will say, it is growing very quickly.   [0:21:46] PF: Well, that is fantastic news for us, because we need it, I'd say, more now than ever.   [0:21:51] RF: No question, no question.   [0:21:53] PF: Well, I so appreciate the work you're doing. I appreciate your time with me today. Again, I really look forward to sharing this with our listeners.   [0:22:01] RF: Thank you, Paula. Wonderful interview. Thank you so much. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:22:07] PF: That was Renee Fleming, talking about how music and the arts can improve our physical and mental wellbeing. If you'd like to learn more about her book, Music and Mind: Harnessing the Arts for Wellness, follow her on social media, discover her music, or access her online resources, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of On a Positive Note and look forward to joining you again next time. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Prioritizing Play With Jeff Harry [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 478 of Live Happy Now. Summer is sort of a reset for all of us, but this week's guest is here to teach us how to prioritize play all year long. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm joined by Jeff Harry, who combines positive psychology with play, to foster healing, and help individuals overcome their biggest challenges. He's sitting down with me to talk about why we all need to embrace the power of play, and how doing that can improve our wellbeing at work and at home. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW]   [0:00:36] PF: Jeff, thank you so much for joining me on Live Happy Now. [0:00:39] JH: Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited for this conversation. [0:00:41] PF: Oh, it's such a great topic. It's something we have to talk about, because we don't talk about it enough. Tell me, I think I want to start by finding out and letting our audience know how you discovered the power of play. [0:00:53] JH: Ooh. So, I'll tell you my Batman origin story. I'll tell you the brief version. But do you ever see the movie Big with Tom Hanks?   [0:01:01] PF: Yes.   [0:01:02] JH: Oh, I saw that when I was in third grade. He got to play with toys for a living, and I was like, "That's a job?" So, I started writing toy companies in third grade, and I did not stop until I got into the toy industry, like I think 15, 20 years later. Have you ever gotten exactly what you've always wanted, and then been so disappointed when you got it?   [0:01:28] PF: Really?   [0:01:30] JH: Yes. It was a toy industry. There was no fun, there was no joy, no high fives, no kids, no play. They might as well have been selling like pillows or socks. So, I was somewhat like disenchanted. So, I left New York, that's where I was at the time, and I came to the San Francisco Bay Area, and I found a job on Craigslist, for anyone that knows Craigslist.   [0:01:51] PF: Nothing risky there.   [0:01:53] JH: Nothing risky there. That's where you get furniture down a dark alleyway. I found this job teaching kids engineering with Lego. It was basically playing for a living, playing, and teaching for a living. We grew it from seven people to 400 people.   [0:02:10] PF: Oh my gosh.   [0:02:11] JH: Yes, it became the largest Lego inspired STEM organization in the US. While we were doing all this, we started working with companies like Google, Facebook, Microsoft, all these top companies in the world. I realized they were not playing at work at all. Even at the best companies, they weren't finding a way. So, I created Rediscover Your Play as a way of exploring how can we infuse more play into our work to solve problems, because I feel like play is probably one of the best ways in which we learned as a kid. And I feel like it still is one of the best ways now. [0:02:48] PF: It something that comes naturally to us as kids. So, if it's something that we're born with, and it's inherent in us, why and when do we lose that ability to play? [0:03:01] JH: There was a professor, [Name inaudible 0:03:02] – I'm going to ruin her last name, but like Pam Settler that talked about how, by the time we reach the age of 18, I think it's 149,000 noes.   [0:03:14] PF: Oh my gosh.   [0:03:14] JH: That's the average amount of noes. Probably, we received in the range of 7,000 9,000 yeses a piece. Then, obviously, it depends on how you grew up. Probably in some places, you got even more noes than that, and barely any yeses. So, we're constantly told at such an early age, "Raise your hand, do this, do that." So much pressure coming from parents, and guardians, and teachers all being like, "What are you going to do when you grow up?" Constantly giving you all like this information, "Maybe you should be a doctor, maybe you should be a lawyer." You're like, "I'm six years old, like I don't even understand what is happening, and you're putting all." NASA did this study that found that, the creativity levels of a human being at three or four is massive, it's around like 96%, 98%. By the time we reach the age of 18, it's below 20%. Then, by the time we reach the age of 25%, it could even be below 12%, maybe sometimes below 10%. Creativity, your ability to look. We are told we have to be a certain way, so we forget how to play. So, the whole point of organization, rediscover your play is like, who are you, who are you as a kid, because that really actually dictates what you would love to do as an adult. [0:04:44] PF: Why is it important to be able to identify that? What change is it going to evoke in us if we can start rediscovering our play? [0:04:53] JH: Then, you're not trying so hard. You're not playing a role; you're not pretending to be somebody that you're not. We're naturally a certain way, and then we lose that. We lose who we are, but that inner child constantly is knocking on the door, and being like, "Remember me. We still love to do this." When you're able to connect back to your inner child, you're reminded of like, "Oh my gosh, this is what makes me come alive. These are the actions that bring so much joy to my life. I haven't done those in a really long time." So, it's really amazing when someone connects back to their inner child, because you see them change. And more so, not even so much change, but you see them get reinvigorated, because then you see who they really are. [0:05:43] PF: Do you ever have people –I'm sure this happens, where people are just not comfortable being playful? How hard is it when you find someone who has stepped into a very serious role or very serious mindset to get them to get in touch with their playful side? [0:05:59] JH: I define play as a new joyful act where you forget about time. It's where you're fully in the moment, is where you're fully immersed in your flow. Then, I also define plays the opposite of perfection. Perfection is rooted in like ego, shame, constantly trying to be right. While play is rooted in like curiosity, a sense of wonder, like a sense of awe. So, if I was approached someone about that, that is like is now so serious, I'm like, "How's that working out for you? Does that feel right? Do you want to be this perfectionist? How does it feel to carry this level of burden? Because it doesn't seem like you're having a lot of fun. It doesn't seem like this is an enjoyable way of being for you." I start small. I remember talking to someone that was just like, "I don't play at all." Then, I was like, "Well, what do you do? What do you do?" She goes, "Well, I'm a lawyer." I was like, "Okay. What do you do in the law?" She's like, "Well, I get people that disagree with each other to agree on one thing. Like people that hate each other, but I'll find one thing that they can agree on." That could be, that's her play. So, everyone has a play that they're probably doing right now, but they don't realize it is, because everyone's plays different. So, it's not like, "Oh, are you playing pickleball? Are you hula hooping?" It's just like, no. What is a joyful act that brings you fully in the moment, that taps into your zone of genius? That is your play. [0:07:25] PF: I'm so glad you brought that up, because adult play looks very different from kids play. So, when you're telling an adult, "We're going to go play." They're like, "I don't do hopscotch. I don't." So, how do you really help someone dive in deeper and explore, okay, this is my form of play. You gave a great example with the attorney. [0:07:44] JH: So, I try to help people figure out their play values. It was something I came up with my colleague, Lauren Yee, where we asked people, "What do you love to do as a kid?" So, I love to combine all my board games together and make an epic board game. So, I would combine Mouse Trap, Monopoly, Clue, all of them, Candy Land, Chutes & Ladders. And I make this epic board game, and I have my sisters play with me. They hated it, but I loved it. But what I found is my values in that is creativity, collaboration, and connection. Those are my three play values. The way I do my talks when I speak, or the way I run my workshops, or the way I brainstorm the next activity, or the next video, silly video I'm going to make combined my creativity, connection, and collaboration. So, identifying your play values based off of what you love to do way back when can I help you. [0:08:38] PF: That is so interesting, because I think when you break it down for someone like that, boy, it's not just, "I need to find a way to play." Because that can be hard as an adult to make that leap back to it. But yes, now, you're really looking at – I love the values part, and how I can integrate that into what I'm doing. [0:08:55] JH: Another tangible one that I do, and I do this with a lot of my coaching clients, or executives that I'm working with is, I ask them these two questions, to rediscover their play. Is I asked them to identify three to five people that they're going to talk to, three to find people that they're close to. It could be friends, it could be family, it could be colleagues, but three to five people that they consider close to them, and ask them these two questions. What value do I bring to your life? Like, what do I do for you? Why are we friends? Because a lot of times, we don't even know what value we're providing for someone. Then, the second question, which is really interesting is, when have you seen me most alive? Another way of asking that is, when have you seen me most creative, most at play? So, the two questions are. what value do I bring to your life and when have you seen me most alive? Then, to get answers back from those three to five people, you start to see patterns of like, "Oh, I didn't even know I give in that way. Oh, I didn't even know that I play in this way." Then, when you connect it all together, then you're like, "Oh." New ideas will come up of like, "I want to play in this way." Then, you reach back out to those same three to five people, and you're like, "Can you help me play more this way?" [0:10:12] PF: I love that. So much of your work centers around companies, and is with companies. I was trying to figure out, how does that translate to individuals, but you just gave us that entire recipe of how it doesn't have to be among your workplace, it can be among your circle of friends. [0:10:26] JH: And there's this other one that I'm actually really excited about, because I'm about to go to England on Tuesday. So, I'm going to experiment with this. I learned this from my friend Desiree, who travels all the time. So, usually, people when they have a bad day, I challenged them about whether they had a bad day. Usually, what happens is you had a bad experience, and that's only momentarily. So, you can decide to let go after 50 seconds, you could let go of that experience. But if you're in a loop, you start to think that the next bad experience is coming on the next one. So, you start thinking like, "Oh, bad things happen in threes. Guess what? It happens in threes." Because your brain is constantly looking for patterns for safety. So, an interesting question that she would ask herself, is she would ask, regardless of however her day is going, whether it's good or bad. She would ask, "How can it get any better than this?"   [0:11:19] PF: I love that.   [0:11:21] JH: So, if you're traveling and you just had some really fascinating conversation, you could be like, "How can it get any better than this?" Then, someone comes in like, "Want to hop on a moped?" And you're like, "Sure, I'll hop on this moped." Then you're like, "How can it get any better than this?" Then, all of a sudden, you find yourself on an island somewhere, watching the sunset. You're like, "How can it get any better than this?" You do that, and it builds a certain level of momentum. Then, your brain starts to positively prime. It's the same thing with gratitude journals, which a lot of people think are corny. But what you're doing is you're just doing pattern recognition, where you're like, "I'm going to look for good things to start my day." Now, if you pull out your phone, which I do as well, to begin your day, and you just start doom scrolling, and the first thing you see is negative, it actually dramatically affects your productivity, I think by 20% to 30%. So, just being aware of like, what is going into your head is crucial. I think a lot of times, we're not aware of that. [0:12:24] PF: Yes. One thing we do in our house, and this is relatively new, I mean, we've kind of done it, but we weren't conscious of it. But then, we sort of made it a thing, and it's, how fast can we make this funny?   [0:12:35] JH: Ooh, I love that.   [0:12:36] PF: If something happens – we bought an older home and a lot goes wrong. We've been fixing it up for four years now. So, it's like, things go wrong a lot out here. It's like, "Okay. How fast can we make this funny?"   [0:12:50] JH: I love that.   [0:12:50] PF: It's like, we could take the show on the road at some point, I'm thinking, because there's been so many things that have happened. Again, just like you said, what happens now when something goes wrong, instead of just being like, "Ah, you got to be kidding me." You're like, "Okay. I want to be the one to come up with a punch line on this." Right?   [0:13:08] JH: Yes.   [0:13:07] PF: So, it's like, you start going through your head like that. So, that makes it fun.   [0:13:10] JH: It's such a mind shift, because now, you have redefined any failure, or any mistake as this like, "Oh, this is an opportunity for us to play." That's so cool. I love that.   [0:13:23] PF: It makes it fun. [SPONSOR MESSAGE] [0:13:25] PF: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Most of us are feeling a lot of stress these days, and one thing that can add to that stress is comparing ourselves to others on social media. It's so easy to start feeling like your life doesn't measure up. But with help from therapy, you can learn to focus on what you want, instead of what others are doing. Therapy can improve your coping skills and change the way you look at your world. BetterHelp is a great place to start. All you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire and you'll get matched with a licensed therapist. You can always change therapists at any time at no extra charge to make sure you get a therapist who's right for you. It's completely online, so it's flexible, convenient, and works with your schedule. Stop comparing and start focusing with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/livehappy today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/livehappy. We'll be right back with the show, but now, Casey Johnson, Live Happy marketing manager and cat owner extraordinaire is back to talk more about her adventures with PrettyLitter.   [0:14:36] TB: Paula, as you know, I'm a proud cat mom of three adorable cats. But, let's be honest, no matter how cuddly they are, those litter box odors are not so cute. Before PrettyLitter, it felt like no matter how much I scooped, our place always smelled like a litter box. With PrettyLitter, I found a product that is the perfect blend of beauty and functionality. That pretty crystal masks the smell at the litter boxes, and now, you don't even know I have three cats until they sit on your lap. So, to all the other dedicated cat parents out there, I highly recommend trying PrettyLitter. [0:15:06] PF: We're going to make it easier for them to try. They can go to prettylitter.com/livehappy and use the code LIVE HAPPY to save 20% on their first order and get a free cat toy. That's prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVE HAPPY to save 20% and get a free cat toy. Again, prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVE HAPPY. [INTERVIEW CONTINUES] [0:15:28] PF: Talk about what you see when people really start giving into their playfulness and really embracing that playful side. [0:15:35] JH: They become lighter, there's not as much burden upon people. You can feel it. You can feel it when you're around someone that's playful, and when you're around someone that's like a perfectionist. If you ever hung out with a perfectionist, like it's not fun. Like, restaurant with them, and they're eating lobster, and you're like, "This is really good lobster." Like, "Well, it's not as good as the one I had in Paris." You're like, "Dude, just enjoy being present." When I see people that have tapped more into their play, and are tapped more into their inner child, they can be present with people, they can be more playful, they're much more adaptive, they've embraced a much more growth-oriented mindset. So, if something bad happens, they're dramatically more resilient. Like what you just did with your example, where you're just like, "Okay. We're just going to figure out how we can make this more funny, more playful." They're willing to adapt more, and then that actually has a ripple effect on everybody else. Because then, people aren't so stressed out anymore. They're not driven by fear. They're not driven by scarcity. When you're in a playful place, you're much more abundant, you're much more tapped into your intuition, and you're much more tapped into your own emotional intelligence. So, this like really helps in so many ways, especially from a stress standpoint, because you're dramatically dropping your stress. [0:16:56] PF: So then. what's that doing to like our productivity at work? [0:17:00] JH: Well, when you're in flow, studies have found that you're 500% more productive. So, you're five times more productive. People are like, "Well, what do you mean by flow?" Well, there's this professor, the Doctor of Flow, Dr. Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. He made the only flow chart that I love, where it basically is like skill and experience. When you join a job, you have no idea what you're doing, you have no skill, and you're probably lacking experience as well. So, you have a lot of anxiety at the beginning, you have a lot of imposter syndrome. When you have so much skill, and you've been at a job for a really long period of time, you become bored. So, between anxiety and boredom, though, there's a flow channel where if the skill meets your ability directly, you go into this flow state. You know you're in a flow state because you forget about time. That's why I ask people all the time, "What is your zone of genius?" You have your zone of incompetence, things you suck at. Zone of competence, things your average at. Zone of excellent things that you're like good at, that you get a lot of praise for, but you don't really care to do them. But your zone of genius is the work where you forget about time, it's the work that you do, even if you're not getting paid to do that work. What happens is, when you're in flow, and follow me for just a moment, I'm going to get old nerdy. You go through something called transient hypofrontality. Transient means, refers to temporary, hypo is under activity, and frontality is talking about the prefrontal cortex. When you go through transient hypofrontality, a part of your brain shuts down, and your inner critic gets quiet. So, when that inner critic gets quiet, all of a sudden, you get a shot of dopamine, you become highly creative. It's almost like that movie Limitless, where you just start pulling ideas from your childhood, college, this thing, that thing, and that's where innovation comes from. That's where genius comes from. That's where like ideas that change the world come from when you're in flow. Then, studies show that then you're five times more productive doing that work. Then, it affects all the rest of your work, because then, you feel seen, you feel heard, you feel appreciated. And then, you're just in the momentum, and you get more focused doing all the other work that you typically don't like to do. [0:19:22] PF: Then, it affects how you present in the world because you're feeling good, you're happier with it, you're more fulfilled. You go home a happier spouse, mother, father, whatever that is. It just has such a domino effect. Just like a job that you hate has a domino effect. Being able to do that and find your place and find your flow is really going to change the way that the rest of your life feels. [0:19:45] JH: Exactly. And what's also interesting, and you can tell, probably, people that are typically most happy and most fulfilled are usually most present. When we're not present, that's when we're on our phones though, that's when we're looking somewhere else, that's when you can barely focus on what's going on right now. But when you're fully present, and fully at play, you feel all the feelings. It's very much like the Pixar movie Inside Out, where people are like, where they talk about how you want to feel all the feelings. You want to feel joy and sadness at the same time. That's what living is. When my dad passed away back in 2015, his brother showed up for the first time since their mom died. It was like 20 or 30 years since they had seen each other. So, I was surrounded by all my family members. I felt such an immense amount of joy. Then, I was like, "Oh my gosh, wait a minute. I'm at a funeral. I'm at my dad's funeral. I should feel guilty about this." But no, it's just like, no, you can have joy and sadness at the same time. You can be nervous and excited at the same time, and to be able to hold both truths and hold all those feelings. That's what living is. I think a lot of times, we're in such a mess state. Like, "Let me binge watch Netflix and doom scroll at the same time." Then, you're not feeling anything. Then, you're bored a majority of the time. When you're playing, you're opening yourself up to be open to all the experiences, all the emotions that come with it. [0:21:15] PF: Yes, it's so important. But of course, people right now are very time poor. This is something I can hear people like listening saying, "Yes, that sounds great, but I have this to do and this to do." So, for people that struggle with time, how do we make the time to prioritize play in our lives? How do we do that? [0:21:34] JH: Something mentioned to me by another play, friend of mine, play advocate, Gary Ware. He's like, "Who's your play partner?" So, we got to get some play partners, you got to get someone that's going to help. That is fun. It's what I did earlier when I asked you the two questions, the three to five people. Who is someone that can help you and be like, "I want to play more, but I don't have time." Well, then, we're going to work together to figure that out. Also, how important is it to you? How important is joy in your life? Look at all the things that fill up your day. We talked about how we're like, we don't have any time. The average amount of time that I think humans are on their phone is about five hours a day. So, you have time, you're grabbing your phone 200 to 300 times a day. So, I think we tell the story that we don't have time for the things that bring us joy. But I read something recently that was like, joy is vulnerable, joy is scary, play can be a little scary. Because I think a lot of times, we're so scared about feeling the fear things, but joy sometimes is even scarier. But that's where also so much living is. So, I would challenge people to look at their time, and see where there's opportunity. Even for example, with kids, you're like, "Oh, I have so many kids, I'm so busy." Play with them, join their play. Play some video games with them, even though you have no idea what they're playing, or play a game with your three-year-old even though you have no idea what game they're playing. Then, here's the flip side, show them your play. How do you use to play, they would love to see that. We talk about how – you only have 18 summers with your kids. Then, we forget later on about that. One of the greatest gifts that I think I've seen parents give to their kids, not only showing them their play, but also doing things where they fail, where their kids can see them, like make mistakes and try things out, and take risks. Like my friend Marina, who's in her late 40s just picked up roller skating. I think she injured her ankle the first time, and all the perfections, people are like, "Well, I told you, you will get injured." She's still doing it. She's still playing. What does that communicate to her kids, is that if this brings me joy, I'm going to do it. If I make mistakes, that's okay, and it's okay for me to fail, even in front of my kids rather than constantly trying to be the perfect parent, which no one can be. [0:24:15] PF: I think that's amazing. Summer time is a great time for play. This is a great time to be looking at it, get it started. But we go into fall, things get more serious. We have some serious stuff coming up this fall. So, how can we start now, building a daily practice of play so that it becomes part of our habits that carries us through? [0:24:35] JH: This is what I do for myself, so I'm just sharing this with others, is try one of the play activities that I suggested. Whether it's figuring out your play values, or asking the two questions. What value do I bring to your life? When have you seen me come most alive? Or, how can it get any better than this? Try one of those things. Then, don't put pressure on yourself that, "Oh, I got to play an hour a day." Just ask yourself throughout the day, "Is there something that can bring me a small amount of joy? What is that? Let me just do that." If you can't think of it, that's when you reach out to your friends and family, you're like, "Help me to find this." Rather than like making it so burdensome that it's just like, "It's just another thing to put on my to-do list, that now I got a play too." Just find things that you're already doing and figure out how to make them more playful. You just did that with your house. You're not doing something new. You're just shifting your mindset on how you show up. You might be able to practice this while people are traveling for the summer, where you're like, "Okay. I know I'm going to go to Disney, and I know my kids are going to have fun, but I'm just going to see it as just exhausting. Me just walking around all day long, just spending way too much money." Here's a shift. Try to see it through the lens of when you were a kid going to Disney your first time. Any experience like that, how do I see like my inner child all over again. Then, give yourself freedom to fail, and keep trying, and playing, and allowing yourself to be more of you. The perfectionist, thing that we are striving for, it's not realistic. It's driven by a lot of like consumerism and capitalism, so people buy more stuff. But when you're at play, you don't feel as if you need to fill the void. So, allow yourself the permission to play. [0:26:32] PF: I cannot think of a better way to end this. Jeff, we are going to tell people how to find you so they can learn more about play. I appreciate what you're bringing out into the world, and I super appreciate you sitting down and talking with me today. [0:26:44] JH: Yay. Thank you so much for having me. This was super fun. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:26:52] PF: That was Jeff Harry talking about learning how to prioritize play. If you'd like to learn more about Jeff, follow him on social media or check out his website. Just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every week, we drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We will meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.   [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Mindful Flower Arranging With Talia Boone [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 477 of Live Happy Now. We've all heard the advice to stop and smell the roses, but this week's guest also wants us to take a moment to arrange them. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm joined by Talia Boone, a social entrepreneur whose work has centered around human and civil rights issues. As you're about to learn, she discovered flower arranging as a form of meditation and self-care. In the height of the pandemic, she launched Postal Petals to help others relieve the anxiety they were feeling. Today, her company's mindful approach to flower arranging is being used by companies, individuals, and community groups who are discovering just how life changing her workshops can be. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW]   [0:00:48] PF: Talia, thank you for joining me on Live Happy Now. [0:00:51] TB: Yes, absolutely. Paula, thank you so much for having me. [0:00:54] PF: You are doing something that is truly different. As soon as I read about it, I was just like, oh my gosh, I can't believe, it had never crossed my mind before. We talked so much about the benefits of nature here at Live Happy Now, and you are using floral arranging as a form of healing. So, I wanted to know, you've got a very interesting story. Can you tell us when you first realized that that could affect your mental health? [0:01:21] TB: Yes. So, the interesting story came to me very unexpected way. So, I have a really good friend, and she and I, whenever we get together, we're really intentional about doing things that we've not done before, always trying some new activity, never like, "Oh, let's go to lunch, or let's go to dinner." That's boring. Always, let's do something different. For one of our friend hangs, she actually suggested that we try flower arranging. I was like, "Cool, I haven't done that before. Let's do it." I liked it, not just because I was really proud of what I've made, but just something about the experience I just enjoyed in a different way that I had other activities. I ended up doing it again, I thought – because I live here in LA, we had the second biggest flower market in the world. I just was like, I'm just going to go down to the flower market, and grab some flowers, and come home, and arrange them, and just kind of see what happens. I went home, and I arranged them, love the flowers again, did it again, did it again. I just liked the way it felt. What I started realizing is that, I would go down to the flower market, just pick whatever feel good to me. I never knew the names of anything, except for the basic like roses, and calla lilies, and things like that. But I just would go down and just pick whatever felt good, whatever colors felt good, whatever shapes really spoke to me. Then, I would go home, and pour a cup of tea, and I would just arrange, and I would just feel like all of the worries of the day, the week, the anxiety, the stress would just dissipate while I arranged flowers. Even the process of just like prepping them, and pulling the stems off, and the thorns, all of those things, I just found it really, really therapeutic. Without really having the language for to call it that then, it became my go-to form of self-care. So that, you know, fast forward a couple of years later, whenever I feel stressed, that's what I would do. I would instinctively go to the flowers. So, fast forward to the very early days of the pandemic, I was starting to get very stressed out as they kind of – as two weeks went to four weeks, went to six weeks, and then it just looked like an endless amount of time that was going to kind of consume us in the home. I started to get really nervous, as I'm sure most of us did, with the uncertainty of what it meant for ourselves, our livelihoods, our families, all of those things. My therapist, we've kind of we're trying all these different things to see how I could kind of calm myself down. I'm very much a person that's into what I call lifestyle medicine. I believe diet and exercise, the right kind of food, the right kind of serving your body in the way that it actually needs it natively is what I kind of will always gear towards. I'm very, very cautious about medications and things like that. So, those kinds of things weren't options for me, and she didn't really recommend them, but that's not a route that I wanted to go. I know that prescriptions for medicines that calm your nerves were at an all-time high during the pandemic. [0:04:11] PF: Pharmacists are banking, right?   [0:04:12] TB: Absolutely. She actually said to me, she's like, "You know, Talia, I haven't heard you talk about arranging flowers in a few months. Why don't you try that and see if that helps you feel better." That ultimately started the journey for what is now Postal Petals. So, that's how I got the love of flowers, how I understood the kind of healing benefits. But then, once she suggested that I arranged them as a way for me to deal with what I was going through in the pandemic, that ultimately ended up being the one suggestion that led to starting Postal Petals. Because when I started looking for a company that could ship me fresh cut flowers to the house for me to arrange, I just couldn't find it. There were so many options to ship me ready-to-use arrangements, but there was nothing that allowed me to arrange them myself. That journey is ultimately what led me to recognize that there was a hole in the market, being that, what I was looking for did not exist. I just felt like, if I was looking for this, there's got to be other people who are as well. Then, I just saw an opportunity to enter into the flower industry. It was a time when events weren't happening, weddings weren't happening, people were hoarding toilet paper. They were definitely not buying flowers at the grocery store. Nobody was really thinking about flowers in that way. So, I took a chance, and decided I'm going to start this company, and we're almost four years later and Postal Petals is the best thing that could have happened to me professionally. I'm in love with this company, I'm so honored, privileged to have been chosen to build and run this company. [0:05:44] PF: That's amazing. For novices, what are we talking about when we talk about flower arranging? Because I'll be honest, the only flower engine I do is take it from the paper around it and put it in a vase. That's about as fancy as I get. So, what does flower arranging really entail? [0:06:03] TB: You know what it entails? It entails patience, it entails you allowing for the time to do it, it entails you allowing yourself to express yourself creatively. So, we are quite conditioned as a culture, particularly here in America. I think in other cultures, I know that they do a lot of flower arranging, and in Japanese, historically in Japanese culture, they arrange flowers specifically as a form of self-care, and meditation, and mindfulness. So, we're just kind of catching up to where flowers had been for many for quite some time. But, the actual act of flower arranging is, realizing that flowers don't always come as perfect as they come in these ready-to-use arrangements. You have to realize when those flowers show up to your florist, they've got leaves all over them, they've probably got bugs crawling in, and there's probably petals that are wilting and dying. So, it entails you being willing to work with those flowers in the same way your florist would, to kind of strip through all of the muck, or all of the waste to really hone in on the beauty. Then, once you hone in on the beauty, really put attention into thinking about where you want to place each stem. So, it's this idea of slowing down to get through that process. So many of us, it's so easy to your point, Paula, around just grabbing a bouquet from the grocery store, running some water in a vase, and plopping it into a vase. But when you stop, and you spread that bouquet out, and you decide that you're going to rearrange it. Now, you see, "Oh, there's leaves in here, let me pull those leaves off the water, off the stamp so that they don't poison the water. Let me adjust the height a little bit, because I want it to look a little bit more full. I think this petal, this bloom would look better over here next to this bloom." So, it's just that process of prepping the flowers, which is trimming them, removing leaves, removing thorns, removing what we call guard petals. But then also, kind of thinking through stem by stem where do those flowers best show up in the arrangement that would bring you the most joy. Then, really take your time to go through that process. I think once you kind of lose yourself in that experience, when you come out of it on the other side, experiencing a piece that I just can't even explain it. I think it's very similar to the way that people talk about gardening, and how they find it just so therapeutic. Most people who haven't done it would say like, "Why do I want to get my hands in the dirt, and do this, and do that? I don't want to do that. I could just buy my vegetables at the store. I could just have a florist deliver my flowers." But there's something about engaging with nature, whether it's in the dirt of a garden, or flower stems, as you're arranging. There's something about that process that is just so incredibly calming and therapeutic. [0:08:45] PF: This seems like such a mindful activity. You can't really be looking at each one, and deciding what you're going to do with it, and be thinking about, I've got to go pick up the kids from school, and I need to stop at the grocery store, and all these other things, you really have to focus. Is that a big part of the therapy side of it? [0:09:03] TB: Yes, it is, because it really forces you to just be present on what you're doing. It's interesting, because we offer our boxes as, you can get them on demand, but we encourage people to, as we say, kind of schedule and regulate self-care as a part of your routine. So, we do subscriptions, where you can get them every week, every other week, or once a month. The reason I say, kind of center your wellness, kind of schedule your wellness is because, when those flowers show up, you have to get them out of the box right away. So, whatever other things you're stressing about, whatever other things are pulling on your time or your attention, you're going to have to make time to pull those flowers out of the box, get them in some water, get them hydrated, and then go through that experience of arranging them. So often, we're in this hustle and grind culture, where we all are wanting to multitask, and do so many different things at the same time. Whereas, it really does in this way force you to pay attention, to be present, to not allow your attention to be diverted. Because if you're looking at work emails, and trying to arrange flowers at the same time, chances are, it's not going to turn out as beautiful as you want to. You're going to cut something too short; you're going to – there's something's going to happen. So, it's just an opportunity for you to design. It's also one of those things, I find that even people who are reluctant to try it, once they start their focus, they're dialed in. One of the things I love most about workshops is that, people come in all excited, and with all this energy, and they think it's going to be like a party. Once they start arranging, the noise dies down so much, because people just – they zone out, they just really, really get into it. It's a similar feeling to me. Result is different, and the experience and the textile is a little bit different. But kind of like when you're fixing puzzles, which is relaxing. You can be doing other things while you're fixing a puzzle, but it's going to take you a lot longer, because you're not going to be paying attention to what goes where and what makes sense. Flower arrangements really are a puzzle, they're your puzzle. It's for you to decide how you want them to turn out, but you have to give them the attention they deserve in order to know exactly where you want them to go. So that when you're done, and you twirl it around, you're going to be like, "Wow, I've made that, that's amazing." You definitely want to be present for that. Otherwise, the other side of that experience, if you're not present, is you're going to be, the whole week that you have them up, you're going to be noticing all the things that you would have changed if you would have been paying attention. [0:11:29] PF: So, I think you brought up to really great points without maybe even realizing it. So, when someone knows they're going to get these flowers. So now, you have this anticipatory savoring where it's like, they're really looking forward to this experience. Then, you have the experience itself, which we've talked about. Then, you have that, as you said, that week afterwards, where you're looking at these flowers. I think that probably brings back a lot of wonderful feelings, calming emotions, just by looking at that. [0:11:58] TB: You're absolutely right. I thank you for noting that point, Paula, because that's exactly it. We talked about or starting to talk more and more about self-care, we're offering them something that's really, at the end of it, they have this really beautiful reminder of that experience. You want to repeat that, because it just feels so good. There's nothing about flower arranging that you come out of, and you're like, "That was terrible. I'll never do that again." [0:12:23] PF: That flower bit me. [0:12:24] TB: Yes, they're so beautiful, like you absolutely love them. Then, also too, throughout the week, you have an opportunity to continue to engage with them. You want to keep trimming them and changing the water to extend their vase life. If one flower starting to fail, you pull that guy out. Sometimes, I even will, midweek, I'll take the whole arrangement out, lay it out, and design it again. Because sometimes, you just need a little bit of a, "Oh, I did a little bit of a huzzah. Let me give me myself a quick 15 minutes and I'll redesign this." It starts to really change the way that you think about flowers. Instinctively, even now, people when they see flowers, it brings a smile to their face that makes them happy. But when you're also able to add to it, that you were able to release anxiety or release stress, that kind of really changes even the way that you feel when you even see flowers. Because now, you've attached this really calming experience to it. Now, you've attached this kind of this mindful, and therapeutic experience to it. It really goes to elevate the relationship that we have with flowers. I think it's a missed opportunity when we allow florists to have all the fun, but we don't take on that experience ourselves. [SPONSOR MESSAGE] [0:13:37] PF: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Most of us are feeling a lot of stress these days, and one thing that can add to that stress is comparing ourselves to others on social media. It's so easy to start feeling like your life doesn't measure up. But with help from therapy, you can learn to focus on what you want, instead of what others are doing. Therapy can improve your coping skills and change the way you look at your world. BetterHelp is a great place to start. All you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire and you'll get matched with a licensed therapist. You can always change therapists at any time at no extra charge to make sure you get a therapist who's right for you. It's completely online, so it's flexible, convenient, and works with your schedule. Stop comparing and start focusing with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/livehappy today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/livehappy. We'll be right back with the show, but now, Casey Johnson, Live Happy marketing manager and cat owner extraordinaire is back to talk more about her adventures with PrettyLitter.   [0:14:46] TB: Paula, as you know, I'm a proud cat mom of three adorable cats. But, let's be honest, no matter how cuddly they are, those litter box odors are not so cute. Before PrettyLitter, it felt like no matter how much I scooped, our place always smelled like a litter box. With PrettyLitter, I found a product that is the perfect blend of beauty and functionality. That pretty crystal masks the smell at the litter boxes, and now, you don't even know I have three cats until they sit on your lap. So, to all the other dedicated cat parents out there, I highly recommend trying PrettyLitter. [0:15:17] PF: We're going to make it easier for them to try. They can go to prettylitter.com/livehappy and use the code LIVE HAPPY to save 20% on their first order and get a free cat toy. That's prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVE HAPPY to save 20% and get a free cat toy. Again, prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVE HAPPY. [INTERVIEW CONTINUES]   [0:15:39] PF: You have turned Postal Petals into an entire movement. So, if someone's listening to this, they might think, "Oh, she sells flowers." It's like, "No, that's not what's going on here." You are doing community workshops; you even do online workshops. Talk about the workshops that you offer, and kind of what you see happen through the course of these workshops. [0:15:59] TB: Yes. So, thank you for asking that. We absolutely are not just flowers. I always say flowers are their tool. We are here to help introduce people to an attainable form of self-care, and mindfulness, and mental wellness. So, we do a series of free community wellness events where we incorporate movement, meditation, and then mindfulness with the flower arranging. So typically, it'll be maybe it's hiking, maybe it's walking, or like a restorative yoga session, followed by a breathwork session, or a guided, or sound bath meditation. Then, we take that really, once the body's already in a calm state, your mind has already kind of started to settle, we bring that energy right into a truly peaceful floral design workshop. We kind of guide people through, here's the flowers, and they walk into the space with the flowers, and it's just flowers everywhere. They can pick whichever flowers they want, and they go back to their stations, and we guide them, in a really kind way through the design process. We're really careful around not telling people where to put each stem. But instead, giving them tricks and tips like, "Cut the stems at a 45-degree angle, make sure you don't allow any leaves to fall below the waterline, because it'll poison your flowers. Be conscious of where you cut based on where you want the blooms to fall on the arrangement," things like that. The most rewarding thing after we do the free community wellness events, and then some of the corporate stuff that we do as well, is really the way that people without fail will comment about how unexpectedly good they feel after having gone through the experience. Because most people will say, I never thought about flowers in this way. I loved flowers. I've always loved flowers, but I've never, I've never experienced flowers in a way that I'm leaving feeling so relaxed, and feeling so centered, and feeling so calm, and feeling like I've addressed, I paid attention to my mindfulness today. That's really what we appreciate most. Then, even when we do our corporate workshops, or our workshops with – we do that private, we call them Petal Riot for design workshops. But we'll bring them in, and they'll say like, "Oh, there's going to be men in there, are men going to want to do this? We have come to find out that the men love it. They absolutely love it.   [0:18:11] PF: That's amazing.   [0:18:13] TB: Yes, the men love it. Many times, they are far better designers than they ever thought they were. I have been wowed so many times by the arrangements that some of our male workshop attendees have put together. They sometimes are dragged, kicking, and screaming to that workshop. But by the end of it, they're among the best, and typically, at the top of the class, it's really interesting. It's funny, because, I'll tell you, Paula, a trend that I was starting to notice when men would be in the workshops, whether they were the virtual workshops or the in-person workshops, is that they would naturally become very competitive. They would always want to make their arrangement better than everyone else. I would see this over, and over, and over again. I was thinking like, geez, I don't understand what that is. I really want this to be relaxing. I don't want it to feel like a competition. I was talking to a male friend of mine, and he was saying, he's like, "Talia, I think what you're not realizing is that for most men, competition is self-care."   [0:19:08] PF: That's a great way to look at it.   [0:19:09] TB: Yes, exactly. That's why they love watching games. That's why they love going to sporting events. Because for man, a lot of that is self-care. I never thought about it like that. But it also really helped me to kind of also even understand how to reach men, and how to, really, instead of discouraging the competition, encouraging it for those who need it, because everybody's journey is their own. While competition for me is not self-care, being able to be sensitive to, and to pivot, and adjust on the ways in which we're addressing each person in the class to make sure that we're meeting them where they are. So long as they leave with an experience of feeling exactly the peaceful and mindful experience that we want them to have. That's what we want. So, I say all that to say, it's a different experience for everyone that comes in, but collectively, regardless of the way that they get there through their flower arranging experience. Whether it's through the joy and peace of it all, or the competition of it all, they all leave saying that they never thought in a million years that they would have that kind of experience, or that they would leave feeling as good as they felt after arranging flowers. It really, it's a beautiful thing, and it's my favorite thing of doing workshops. At the end, I'll say, "How was it?" And they're just like, "This was amazing." [0:20:25] PF: How rewarding that must feel. [0:20:27] TB: Really. It really is, because it's, to your point as we were talking around this really being something that hasn't really been done before in the way in which we're doing it. It really is a unique offering, and it's validating every time I get that response. Because sometimes, people who have not had the experience find a hard time understanding why they would want to have the experience. Because we've been so traditionally conditioned to experience flowers as this ready to use product from florists. They just deliver them to your door, maybe you take some pictures, throw them on the ground. Then, you don't really engage with them again, until you're tossing them out into the trash because they died. The whole time you've had them, you've missed all that opportunity to really engage with them, those flowers, and those stems in a really, really meaningful way. So, I get it, why people don't understand it. But it's so rewarding when they do get it because they don't – once they get it, they don't do it just once, they keep coming back for it, and I love that. They're hooked on it like I am, and I love it. [0:21:26] PF: There you go. You did something really interesting and profound with Amazon. I want to hear about this. I was reading about this on your website, and I thought, oh my gosh. I'm not going to say anything more, because I want your words to describe this. [0:21:42] TB: Yes. Oh, God. Paula, thank you for bringing that up. That was actually one of my favorite events, very special to me for a number of reasons. But that event, Amazon had Amazon Studios, put out a film back in 2022, called the TILL movie, which was the Mamie Till-Mobley story about the lynching of her 14-year-old son, Emmett Till in the south, while he was there visiting family. It's a story that growing up in the African-American community, you've always been very much aware of, as well as stories just like it that happened, that have been happening for generations to our ancestors, men and women in our family who have come before us. When that film came up, and they were releasing it, they reached out, and they said, "Hey, we're doing a series of screenings and talks about, we want to have you there." This particular screening that we did was a screening for black mothers. It was a screening of the project, and they never meant to have like a panel discussion about that film, and what it brought up for them being mothers, and the way that they protect their children in general, but their sons, their black sons growing up in this country, in particular. When they came to me, I just said to them, the themes in this film, in other films like it, incredibly traumatic for us in our community. These bring up very negative feelings, very real vulnerabilities, and threats to our livelihoods, even today. So, I said to them, "I would love to work with you all, but I want to be really careful about the way that we engage in this type of space. Since we know that these things can be incredibly traumatic to our community, I want to make sure that we don't send them out into the world with that trauma from the screening and from the conversation that we can instead make sure that we're really intentional about the ways in which we can start to relieve some of that pressure before we leave." So, the idea that we came up with was to do one of our make and take bloom bars, after the screening and after the panel discussion. So, what happened was, the ladies went in, they did the screening, they had their panel discussion, and we were in a separate room in the back. You could kind of see, yes, they were coming out of that room, the weight of the film on them. But then, when they saw the flowers, and they got closer, and start to realize that the flowers were for them, you could visibly see the weight of the film starting to break away. As they were gathering up, and starting to pick the flowers that they wanted in their arrangements, and we started kind of fixing them up and wrapping them. Then, they started to converse with each other about the flowers that they were creating, and the flowers they were choosing, the arrangements that they were creating, it completely changed the spirit and the energy in the room, where the ladies were able to use the flowers as a way to decompress, and to kind of level set kind of their energies, and the spirit of kind of how they were feeling coming out of it. It just completely changed it, where they were talking about the flowers, and they were talking about the beauty of the flowers. As they were able to continue to have some of the conversation about the film, their perspective was very much shifted based on the fact that they were able to look at it from a different way, because their energy had been shifted. Then, they took those flowers, and we had a whole portrait studio set up for them. So, we were able to kind of memorialize the moment with those flowers, and with those women in the portrait studio, and to think that they were able to go from watching that screening, and really taking in those really heavy, heavy messages at the film. To ending with being given flowers, and smiling in a portrait studio was just really beautiful to see. Also, just a true example of the absolute healing powers of flowers. In real time, we were able to see how these women went from carrying the weight of this movie and their lived experience relating to the movie. And seeing the flowers being able to decompress that, and allow them to leave feeling less heavy than the film. [0:25:45] PF: As I read about that, I was thinking how it's really helping heal a traumatic experience for them. So then, I wonder, I know you have so much research on your website. I love the fact that you just have research that says, "Hey, it's not just me." There's science behind this that shows how good this is for us. But what do you see being able to do in terms of helping people work through trauma? [0:26:09] TB: Again, thank you for asking that. That's another thing that we're actively doing now, is beginning to partner with licensed mental health practitioners to start to develop floral healing curriculums that speak really specifically to various ailments. Mental and emotional health ailments that people may be going through. So, we're now really thinking about in addition to what – as our curriculum start to be formalized, really very intentionally beginning to partner with the social institutions that sit at the centerpieces of our communities. Thinking about schools, and community organizations, even rehab facilities, correctional facilities, aging, and caregiving facilities. Seeing how we can begin to take our flowers into those spaces and help with things like self-esteem, emotional intelligence, mindfulness. When you're thinking through rehab, and things like that. But even, people who are in facilities where they're having to find more healthy ways to express themselves, as opposed to coming angry or, or taking on substances, or anything that's not healthy and saying, "Well, let's put that energy into the flowers, and really being able to have curriculum that's very intentionally crafted to help people use the flowers in that way. The way that I love to describe this is, we are really giving people an attainable way to achieve, to reach for their mental, and emotional wellness. For some, they require that to be done in concert with professionals, in concert with medications, just kind of depending on what their unique condition is. But for many people, just the act of tending to your emotional and mental wellness, tending to acknowledging the anxiety that you're feeling, acknowledging the stress that you're feeling, and giving yourself 30 minutes to an hour each week or every other week. Just to kind of put that energy into the process of arranging flowers works wonders for your total emotional health. [0:28:04] PF: That's incredible. I'm so excited to see where this goes, because I know you've been at it for a while. But I also realized this is just really the beginning of what it can accomplish, and like I said, I hope you'll stay in touch. I hope we can watch and see it grow because you're doing a lot of amazing things. [0:28:20] TB: Thank you so much, Paula. I really, really appreciate that. Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:28:28] PF: That was Talia Boone, talking about how mindful flower arranging can relieve anxiety and improve our wellbeing. If you'd like to learn more about Talia, follow her on social media or check out her Postal Petals workshops. Just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every week, we'll drop a little bit of joy into your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.   [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: What Wolves Can Teach Us With Cynthia Heisch [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:08.6] PF: Welcome to Happiness Unleashed, with your host, Brittany Darrenbacher, presented by Live Happy. For this episode, we’re going to take a walk on the wild side. For years, wolves have been revered as spirit animals, and in many spiritual traditions, their belief to help people connect with their instincts and inner wisdom. At the Sedona Wolf Sanctuary in Arizona, rescued wolves on sacred land create a healing experience for those who have experienced trauma or who are looking for renewing spiritual experience. In this episode, Brittany talks with Cynthia Heisch, Founder and CEO of the Sanctuary, to talk about how and why wolves can help us heal. Let’s have a listen. [INTERVIEW]   [0:00:49.9] BD: Hi Cynthia, welcome to Happiness Unleashed. [0:00:52.5] CH: Hello, thank you so much for having me, Brittany, and team, excited to be here. [0:00:58.4] BD: You know, recently, I was out in Sedona and I came to the sanctuary and I just immediately knew, I’m like, “We have got to get her on the show.” And just not only to talk about your space but also to talk about wolves. You know, this is a topic that when I first got into supporting animal care professionals, I didn’t know that this field of rescue and sanctuary life even existed. So, let’s start off by you telling the listeners what is a wolf sanctuary. [0:01:31.3] CH: Yeah, so a wolf sanctuary is a place where you know, rescued wolves or wolf dogs, or anywhere in between will come to live. There’s a reason why so many wolves and wolf dogs out there end up in sanctuaries. The easiest way that I can explain it is they’re kind of the outcasts of the animal world. If you think about it, they don’t quite fit in a zoo, although, many of them are in zoos. They’re kind of dropouts as private pets and so, they’re trying to find their place in today’s modern world because even in nature, they’re getting pushed out, right? And it starts with a lot of the misconceptions that people have about wolves in general and even owning wolves or wolf dogs as pets, and why that often goes horribly wrong but that’s why there’s such a need out there for sanctuaries, for permanent placements where these animals can live the entirety of their lives. Oftentimes, it is in a nonprofit organization that has dedicated their entire organization to rescuing these wolves but that is what your average wolf sanctuary is built upon. Now, our sanctuary as you know is quite different. We are the only spiritually infused wolf sanctuary in the country, maybe the world, on sacred lands. So, we pair and really focus on pairing that sacred land with the sacred animal and the magic behind that, and I think that’s exactly why you’re talking to me for this purpose. [0:03:09.2] BD: What is wolf medicine? [0:03:11.1] CH: So, wolf medicine is something that, number one, you feel, and it starts with looking at wolves almost the same way the Native Americans did. So, not just as a spirit animal, but as the eyes of spirit, as our greatest teachers. You know, some tribes even saw wolves as like walking gods, and Healing Wolf, who is the creator of this wolf sanctuary originally over 20 years ago, she thought, “If we could have a direct connection with the wolf ourself or at least, be in the presence of them, that would do a lot in terms of helping people to gain a new appreciation of the animal.” Change some of the stereotypes and stigmas that are out there about wolves, starting with the big bad wolf, when we’re young, of course, and also helping people heal or transform, whatever they’re looking to go through. A lot of times, it can be quite an emotional experience for people and that’s really the magic behind it because I think in many ways, wolves bring up our own fears. There are so many fears about wolves in general, in society, in media. As we see, they’re always played out to be the big bad wolf. So, there’s something inherent and almost subconscious about being around wolves that bring up our own fears. So, I think that’s why and I can only speak from experience, why I’ve seen so many people be able to all of a sudden, bam, when they’re around our animals have these transformations. Now, it doesn’t happen for everyone, right? It’s not guaranteed but for those that are ready, a lot of times, they’re able to help us connect to our inner wolf, and really bring to consciousness what are our fears, what is it that we need to transform and transmute in order to move forward. [0:05:07.7] BD: And there’s something so beautifully therapeutic about that. I think that’s what stood out to me, you know, in visiting the space is just it is a therapeutic experience. [0:05:17.6] CH: Right, right, and although I don’t claim to be a therapist on any regard, we get a lot of people in that field, you know, that come here or even people who have tried all other types of traditional methods and therapy and are almost desperate for a solution. People who maybe have gone through animal trauma, you know, like with dogs, or we had one lady who was attacked by a mountain lion, and that was still, you know, affecting her day-to-day. Those sort of methods where it can be quite therapeutic because not just the wolves but as you know, we create a whole experience and we really try to help people tap inward as best as we can on the sacred land in our own ways with the medicine wheels and things of that nature. So, I agree, I think that’s why we see these big, emotional releases, why people say, “This changed my life.” I mean, that’s almost hard for even me to believe, you know? When you hear something like that, you know that’s really doing something. [0:06:24.4] BD: What can people expect to experience and see and witness and be a part of in a wolf experience at the sanctuary? [0:06:33.2] CH: A lot of times, when people first find the wolf sanctuary, I think they just expect, “Okay, maybe we’ll be in there with the wolves.” And I make sure to tell people, we’re not a petting zoo, but rather, it’s an organic experience. So, it’s completely up to the wolves whether or not they decide to come up to you. You know, all the animals that we have are rescues but one reason why this allows to work is because they have all been domesticated to some degree. So, these aren’t just wild feral wolves that are coming up to you, of course, that would never work but because we still selectively pick our pack and have integrated them, that’s what allows for these experiences, where we allow them to go into the enclosures. Now, where the magic happens, where the healing happens that we see is kind of where it’s exceeding their expectations, how when they’re actually face to face with a wolf and it’s coming up to you, that’s when that catalyst of change happens. I mean, you’ve experienced it, where all of a sudden, it’s like, all your emotions can come up. Sometimes, even seeing them through the enclosures before they walk in, I see people have tears in their eyes, and when you ask them, “What’s happening?” They’re like, “I don't know what’s happening.” They almost can’t even put it into words. So, you go into each enclosure but we also integrate the medicine wheels, the ancient medicine wheels that are on the property. It is sacred land, land that is near Montezuma Well. Of course, Sedona is the mecca for healing but the land that we are on has had years and years of, first, starting with the Native Americans, blessing and being a part of the land. It’s surrounded by water and so, the land itself is its own sanctuary, and that’s what’s equally as important and why people can feel the power of the animals, even more so. It’s a portal for catalyst of change and a portal for feeling your own emotions. Just like any other sanctuary is, right? It’s the same thing that we’ve created here and that I’m proud to call now my life’s work and continue from healing wolves. We started it in the very beginning. [0:08:38.7] BD: Yeah, how did you get into this work, how did you make this your life’s work? [0:08:42.4] CH: I had a whole previous career in the corporate world that taught me all sorts of things. I have an MBA and like many people, I came to a point in my life where I was like, “I think I’m meant for something different I don’t know what it is.” So, my partner and I moved to Sedona, we’re Airbnb’ing it and I happen to find this wolf sanctuary. At the time, it was called Medicine Wheel Lodge and was still being ran by Healing Wolf. So, I was obsessed with it, I had to go, I called her every single day until we got a booking. When I went there, she saw me with the wolves and said, “You have a gift.” And I was like, “Really?” And she just saw how well I was able to interact with the animals. Healing Wolf became my mentor, this, you know, legendary woman in the community, this spiritual leader suddenly took me under her wing. And I’ll tell you what, one secret was after that first experience, when I went into the wolf visit myself, I sat in the car, looked at my partner, and was like, “How do we find a place like this?” And some people will say that was pulling it out into the universe, you know, manifesting it, however, you want to call it. It went from arriving there and doing our very first visit was June 2022 to taking over the entire sanctuary, buying the property, the business, everything October 2022. So, yeah, to the logical timeline, that sounds like, “What in the world, how is that even possible?” But to people who are maybe more, like, in the woo and the divine timing and unfolding, they’re like, “Oh, I get it.” [0:10:26.8] BD: You spoke it and so it is. [0:10:29.4] CH: Exactly. So, that’s kind of how it happened and now, it’s an amazing blessing and we get to meet people from all over the world. I get to witness these healings, every single day, and people that are coming from grief. You know, they’ve lost a pet, they lost a loved one, people who are suffering from trauma, like I said, dog trauma is a big one that we get because dogs are everywhere. People who have suffered from PTSD, veterans, the deaf, blind, you name it, we’ve had the opportunity to work with them and it’s just been the best blessing of a lifetime. [0:11:04.6] BD: You’ve talked about you know, misconceptions, you know, a few times already, like, what are common misconceptions when it comes to wolves? [0:11:14.8] CH: The biggest one that is – the biggest problem I would say is that people think it’s okay to have them as pets. Not necessarily, mostly wolves a hundred percent but a lot of times wolf dogs. So, there can be certain percentages of content that a wolf is, like how much wolf is this dog if that makes sense. I tell people that’s like having a tiger as a cat in your house and we really make sure to hone in on that when people come here. Why there are so many in need, and the statistic that we share is over 130,000 are born in this country each year, only 10% make it to the age of two, it’s not because of health reasons or something like that but usually because people think it sounds cool to have one as a pet and then anything is manageable as a baby, as a puppy, right? But as soon as it gets bigger wolves are one of those animals that is often like, “You know what? I’m not trying to do the whole sit-stay-heel thing, I’m not a dog.” I tell people that’s like trying to make a human be a monkey, right? And we will go crazy, it’s the same thing, so that is one of the biggest misconceptions. I think the fear around wolves in general because that’s an important layer too, I think that comes from the way they’ve been portrayed in media but even before that if you think about it, in the wild, wolves are the apex predator just like lions. They don’t naturally have any predators, so when the natives and the first settlers came here, you know, all of a sudden they think they’re at the top but then there’s this animal that is kind of at their level, the natives revered not feared the wolves, right? They say saw them as teachers, they saw them as something to respect and learn from how these wolves are able to operate independently but also have so much care and loyalty to their pack. They saw that as such a beautiful thing but oftentimes, the next layer is that you know, a lot of the settlers came through and saw them as a threat, and then from there on, they became the big bad wolf, they became the figure we see them as in society. So, that’s why here at the Sedona Wolf Sanctuary, we really try to focus on rewiring that in public perception and showing people they aren’t the big bad wolf. That was just a construct that was out there and they’re just trying to exist and be their selves as we all should be. They are living in their truest level of alignment, which is such a beautiful thing and message that we can learn from them. [0:14:02.8] BD: And when I left, I felt a deep reverence for wolf medicine, you know? What would be your biggest hope for people that come to the sanctuary and get to experience this, what do you hope to impart for them when they leave? [0:14:20.9] CH: When they come here, I just hope that they’ll come with an open mind, without any expectations of, “I’m going to pet a wolf” without any expectations of, “I’m going to have this miracle healing, these are going to save me.” But just being open to the experience to receiving because as you know Brittany, we have quite a process that we take people through, and the ones that come and are ready to just kind of drop those expectations and be. Be present and be here in their fullest self, put the phone away, put the stress away for just a minute, that would be my one hope that they would come with because I know they will not leave the same from this experience and for each person, it is a personal experience, you know? I can’t say or read someone’s mind in terms of what area of healing it is that they need. Only they know that or maybe even on a subconscious level but the wolves will feel it. They’ll bring it up to the surface, they’ll point it out for them, and that’s what’s so beautiful about it not just you know, spiritual or emotional healings, literal physical healings. They will point it out quite literally. So, even if they don’t experience something like in the moment, what often happens as well is people will have dreams or visions, days, weeks, months later and suddenly call me and say, “I have to tell you what happened.” “I have to tell you the story.” That’s why we have so many amazing, like almost unreal Google reviews is because of those types of experiences. So, all I would ask and hope for is that whoever feels called to come to the sanctuary is just open and ready to receive because then that’s when the magic can unravel in itself. [0:16:11.1] BD: Is there a particular moment or just something that has happened on the property that you feel comfortable sharing that stands out to you? [0:16:19.3] CH: If I think back to one of the stories that stands out the most, that would be there was this mother that brought her child here and her child, who, this was back when we allowed children by the way, he was about six but when he was about three years old, he got attacked by a dog and it was a pretty bad situation, okay? Well, this kid was completely petrified of dogs and dogs are everywhere, right? People have service dogs, they’re just everywhere, they’re a part of our life. Well, he literally couldn’t function like a normal kid. This mom herself was a counselor, was trained, she did this for a living, and she had tried every other traditional method of healing, of therapy, you name it, to help her child. She came here and I could tell even from the initial phone call that this was kind of a last-ditch effort. She was like, “Maybe the wolves can help my kid.” So, when she came here, I’ll never forget, we did the whole experience and then we’re walking into the enclosure with Thor, the first enclosure, Thor the wolf, he’s coming straight at the kid almost too fast where I almost – I was so close to literally physically jumping in between Thor and the kid. I’m thinking, “He’s coming in way too hot.” But I just sat there and I trusted him like, “Okay, source, you’ve got this, like come on, you’ve got this.” And so, Thor went straight up to the kid and started pointing at his leg, and at the time, that didn’t mean anything to us but the kid was fine. He wasn’t freaking out, he was totally calm. So, I’m like, “Okay, so far so good.” We go through the entire experience and all the different enclosures, meeting all the different animals. And at the end, we were wrapping things up and I walk around the corner and I’ll never forget, I see the mom just bawling. She’s standing next to her child, she’s bawling and she said, “Tell Cynthia what you just told me.” And the kid told me that when Thor first came up to him, Thor, I still get goosebumps saying this, Thor was pointing at his scars through the kid’s pant legs. Like, Thor was like, “Boom-boom-boom” went straight for the bites where he had scars, and after that the kid knew it’s okay, I’m safe. This child, right? Was telling us this and then I start bawling because I was like, “Oh my gosh, that is beyond the physical.” I mean, there’s no other way to explain that and so ever since then, he’s totally fine with dogs, you know? He’s going through life completely normal. You know, people sometimes will have those fears coming here and I know it’s not for everybody every time of course, but for a lot of people who do feel called, I wish they could know, like, miracles happen here. It’s possible, right? If you’re open to it again, and I think the kid was open to it, his mother was open to it and that’s really also what allowed for that to happen. Those are the moments I think back to and I’m like, “Okay, keep going, this is important work.” [0:19:42.1] BD: So, to close out the show, I like to ask everyone to share a story of an animal that has really had an impact in your life, that has done magic or healing, you know, maybe in an unassuming way and just, you know, a story of a special animal that stands out to you. [0:20:01.7] CH: Oh, jeez, the one that I would say right now is, this is a hard one, I think all the wolves have special stories as you know but I think right now would be Eva. When she came here, she kind of had a lot of trauma. She would literally fear pee and poo the second you looked at her, and I remember thinking because I didn’t do the transfer, my partner did, and I remember thinking, “Well, how in the world are we going to do this, you know?” I don't know if she’s ever going to trust us and you have those doubts in your head when you see this animal that’s so petrified, and you just want to give them all the love in the world. Well, I went in there and every single day would just spend time with her over and over, and she went from literally hiding in her den for the first month that we had her in with Thor, to now, jumping all over me, coming up to guests. And so, to me, that’s just a testament of the power of love, the power of patience, how much they can feel and it’s a reciprocal give and take experience, the wolves, and seeing their progress, seeing how they are able to know that. It’s like they know they have a purpose here and they know what they’re here for and they feel the love that we give to them that they’re a part of the sanctuary. They’re a part of this experience and knowing that, and seeing that in action, that’s just – those are the moments that warm my heart the most. [0:21:42.3] BD: They’re incredible. [0:21:43.9] CH: Thank you. [0:21:44.9] BD: Cynthia, thank you so much for coming on the show. [0:21:47.0] CH: Thank you, Brittany, yes. [0:21:47.9] BD: And sharing all the wolves with us and wolf medicine, and I hope that everyone makes a trip to Sedona and books a wolf experience with the Sedona Wolf Sanctuary. I can’t recommend it enough. [0:22:00.5] CH: Thank you. Hope everyone comes and sees us or checks out our website and we would love to connect. Thank you so much. [END OF INTERVIEW]   [0:22:09.0] PF: That was Brittany Darrenbacher, talking with Cynthia Heisch, about the power of wolf medicine. If you’d like to learn more about the Sedona Wolf Sanctuary or follow them on social media, just visit our website at LiveHappy.com and click on the podcast link, and of course, Brittany will be back here next month to talk more about how animals bring us joy, help us heal and can be some of our best teachers. Until then, for everyone at Live Happy, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.   [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: How to Stress Wisely with Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:03] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 476 of Live Happy Now. If you're feeling more stressed than usual these days, you aren't alone. Today, we're going to find out why that is and what you can do about it. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm joined by Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe, an author, psychology instructor, and expert on resiliency. Her latest book, Stress Wisely: How to Be Well in an Unwell World, breaks down why the stress of today's fast-paced world is having such a devastating effect on us, both physically and mentally. She's here today to explain how we can manage that stress to become more resilient and even how we can proactively prepare for stress before it happens. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:49] PF: Robyne, thank you so much for joining me on Live Happy Now. [0:00:52] RHD: I am thrilled to spend time with you here, so thank you for the invitation. [0:00:56] PF: I'm excited to have you. I received your book, Stress Wisely, and it is one of the most profound books on stress I have ever read. The time I've spent with this is really more than I would normally spend with a single book, because you approach it in so many different ways. Before we dig into that, tell the listeners what led you to write this book. [0:01:19] RHD: Oh, well, first, thank you for that very generous feedback. My area of research is around human resiliency. I've been really curious. I've been teaching and doing research almost 20 years now on that area. One of the through-line, Paula, that just kept coming to the surface was that persons who were able to work with their stress systems, like people who had strategies to work with their stress system, they were so better positioned to be able to manage life when things went off the rails, or when stressors became really apparent. As I was doing this work on resiliency, I just really felt that calling to be able to say, hey, we got to shine some light and spend some good intention about understanding our nervous system, because that's really going to unlock how we can really, truly be well. [0:02:06] PF: Mm-hmm. One of the things that I love about your approach is it's very knowledgeable and scientific, but it's like talking to a friend. It is really like you, take us by hand, it's like, “Hey, we're going to go on this little journey through this thing called stress.” It's very friendly in the tone. Was that just a natural thing for you to write it that way? [0:02:28] RHD: I feel very fortunate and, again, being in a position where as someone who really struggled with school, so I was not a really super strong student, I really navigated with a lot of challenges academically, until I learned that with my ADHD and learning disabilities that I just process information in a different way. Despite being able to go on and being able to complete multiple degrees and have this really great academic success, something that's always been true to me is I love to share information in a way that resonates with how information lands with me. I'm really not interested in that notion of expertise. I'm interested in allyship, where walk with me and help me understand, because that's the learning that really resonates with me. Again, to be true, to be able to do this work, I felt I wanted to represent it in that similar way. That's why I'm just really appreciative when I hear folks say that, hey, this was a pretty kind approach to be talking about a very complex topic, which is what I really strive to do with how I prepared that material. [0:03:29] PF: A lot of books, or articles that we read about stress, it's like, how to overcome it. It's like, this is something we should beat, which just stresses us out more, because it's like, “I can't. Stress is bigger than I am.” You really take a different approach in that you talk about making stress an ally. [0:03:48] RHD: Absolutely. [0:03:50] PF: Talk about what that looks like when you make stress an ally and how you even begin doing that. [0:03:56] RHD: Yeah. You're absolutely right. Right now, it seems like, everything is going to kill us, right? Stress is one of those things, where they say, 90% of all diseases are associated with high levels of stress. It seems like, it's just permeating every aspect of our well-being and our culture. Then we hear that the remedy is to try and get rid of stress. Where I ran into a bit of just this disconnect was stress is actually our first line of defense. Our stress system is designed to keep us alive. It's not meant to do us this harm. What I really fell into was this notion that the way that we're living our lives very much is going against our biology. When we start to re-imagine that relationship with stress as in like, hey, this is my internal system that's letting me know what's okay and what's not okay, letting me know when do I need to rest? When do I need to focus? When do I need to regroup? Again, when do I need to just find a different way through it? What I really started to get curious about is how do we change that narrative that, again, stress isn't the enemy. It's the doses of cortisol that we're getting on a daily basis that we're now using as our default setting. Our default setting is this sense of urgency that everything's a crisis, and that hustle and that just never enough feeling is really this idea that that's just not sustainable. Instead, learning how do we re-regulate these nervous systems, so we can work in partnership with all of our parts, versus working against ourselves is what we started to think about in this work. [0:05:33] PF: I love that you acknowledge the fact that our bodies were not built for today's world. [0:05:38] RHD: Not even close. [0:05:39] PF: Talk about that. Why do you say that we are not equipped to live in the society we've created? [0:05:45] RHD: Well, I think the biggest one, even just if we come at it from a physiological perspective, our bodies and our brains are not designed to be in this place of omnipresence. What I mean by that is we're not meant to have these 18, 20-hour days where we don't have opportunities for rest and recovery. What's happened right now is we're creating this artificial ecosystem where we're calling this high performance, or we're just calling this the way that the world is now. But the reality is our nature is very much designed to have ebbs and flows, to have seasons of high productivity, absolutely. But then, we need time to rest and to recharge and just really enjoy that. Right now, again, I think we're doing a big disservice by suggesting that everything needs to be this complicated, and this full, versus being able to priority management, the things that matter most and make those things matter most, so we can enjoy the process. [0:06:43] PF: What's so difficult is we keep adding more things that need to be done. Even some of those things are, “I need to relax. I need to build in time to meditate, or whatever my form of relaxation is.” Then it becomes just one more thing on this list. You get stressed out looking at it, because you can't get to all those things. [0:07:03] RHD: Absolutely. It would be a full-time job in itself just to do all the things that they say we ought to be doing and we should be doing, or we could be doing for our well-being. One of the things that when we're doing this research that really was striking for me was, for example, we learned that loneliness will kill you faster than a bad diet. Yet, we're not talking about social connection. As we are talking about what's the nice next hype cycle of what nutrition program we should be following. Again, it's reimagining that, okay, well, what is it that we actually need? Really, much going back to some of those fundamentals of ensuring that we're meeting all of the parts of our well-being. So often, again, when we talk about well-being, I think people are really talking about health and you know what? Yeah, health is associated with the physical self. Well-being is the emotional self, it's the spiritual self, it's all of the parts of us that make up our identity. I think coming at this from a different perspective of radically simplifying the things that matter most, where we'll get the best return on our investment. I can give you an example of that. Okay, just recently I was at a huge event and they were all asking me what supplements should I be taking, or how cold should the cold plunge be? They're just really talking about a lot of those pieces of information in the media that are making some really big promises to radically transform our lives. They're like, “Which one should I do, Robyne?” I said, well, I can ask you this. Do you sleep? They said, “Well, no.” Then I said, well, you're really stepping over a $100 bill to try and pick up a penny if you're looking at supplements, because if you're not having a good night's sleep, or using naps to help recover, none of the supplementation is going to work. You're trying to find a way to replace something that's so fundamental to our sense of well-being, which you just can't do with supplementation and things like that. [0:08:58] PF: Yeah, we do try to find this answer without looking at the actual cure for what's going on. As you brought up, sleep is such a huge factor in how we're doing well overall and stress completely robs us of that. Can you talk about some of the other ways we are affected when we are living in this world of constant stimulation? [0:09:18] RHD: Yeah. Well, I think one interesting area that we're seeing right now in the research is that as we see, for example, emotional health starting to get quite bumpy and there's a lot of turbulence right now about emotional health and mental health, one of the things that I'm really seeing is we're not really giving ourselves the spaciousness to be able to process our emotions. I'll give you this example. Imagine when you're a little kid and you're walking home from school after you've had a bad day, right? You're holding your backpack and you're walking down the street, chances are in the background, your brain is processing all of the day's events, right? Maybe you're not even giving it a lot of conscious thought, but in the background, your brain is organizing the learning, it's making space to process all of it However, now, when that little one is walking home from school, chances are they're scrolling on a phone. They're just adding more content constantly in. It's the steady stream of over-information, and what happens is our brain never gets to really do its job around putting things into place. Even just that notion that we're robbing ourselves the time to process thoughts and feelings and learnings, and we're just always on this treadmill of consumption, versus having time to be a curator and organize some of those thoughts and feelings. Then usually, what we see happens, Paula, is at the end of the day, you might just pass out, because you're exhausted. You're not falling asleep. You're just passing out. Then, because we haven't processed the day, we'll usually get a cortisol spike, I think usually between 1 a.m. and 3 a.m., and we wake up and we feel the sense of worry. We feel the sense of dread, because our body has just got this huge hit of cortisol. Again, we're in this cycle where our default setting isn't really manageable to the reality of how we want to be in our day and really how we want to feel most of the time. [0:11:10] PF: Yeah. It's like, our day is we just grab it and try to hold on. It's given a whole different meaning to seize the day. It's like, now I grab your hat and hold the hell on, kind of thing is how you feel. I think of that from an adult perspective. Then as you mentioned, the child, kids that are growing up in this always on environment, how is that rewiring them for the world? Because we know the studies are showing, each generation is subsequently less happy and more anxious and that is alarming. What does this have? What role does this play in it? [0:11:46] RHD: Oh, absolutely. You're absolutely right. It is very concerning, because the world is unwell and our children very much are unwell in this world in some cases. Again, what I really think is happening is that we've created that baseline, or our emotional home of that place of anxiety, of that place of, again, I don't think we're ever meant, or designed to have access to all of the information that we have. We know historically, there's always been unrest in the world, yet we were sheltered from it in some cases, because we didn't have this 24-hour news cycle, or this news feed always showing us the worst and all that noise and negativity. Our brains weren't designed to be activated in that state of threat, like they are all the time. I can share with you, when I'm working with young ones and especially adolescents is there's not a lot of hope right now in some places. They're not really excited about growing up, because they're not really seeing examples of grownups who are happy and grounded and really thriving. Right now, they're seeing very exhausted people who, again, are just, as you said, they're just barely holding on. I think it's really important that we find ways to model that, yes, we want to be productive and have these good livelihoods and this solid lifestyle. But there's also room for play and joy and this all being meaningful and worthwhile in the process. [0:13:13] PF: Yeah. As adults model that, we're not giving them anything to look forward to. [0:13:19] RHD: Yeah. I can tell you from a very – with radical candor, I recall several years ago, sitting at the kitchen table and my oldest at the time, he was there, and we were chatting and I had a very difficult, no good rotten day at work and this was becoming a theme. He said to me. He goes, “Mama, you told me that if I work really hard and that I set my intentions in the right way,” he said, “I could be anything that I wanted to be when I grow up. Is that true?” I was like, “Yes, Hunter. You can be anything, as long as you set your course in that right way and you work hard.” He paused, Paula, and he looked at me and he said, “Why can't you? Why can't you be anything when you grow up?” Because he goes, “Right now, mama,” he goes, “I just can't imagine, this is what you want to be. This is what you want to do.” [0:14:03] PF: Well, first of all, what an insightful son you have. [0:14:07] RHD: Absolutely. It was this emotional two by four to the face. It was just this moment of just stark clarity, where I realized, I was modeling behavior to my children of like, you know what? Other people can be happy. Other people can have this. But I was just in these trenches and repeating what I wasn't repairing. It was a really big wake-up call for me to say, “You know what? I do want to take this chance. I do want to write these books. I do want to explore my career, so I can model for my kids that there's another way to go about building a livelihood and a lifestyle.” [0:14:42] PF: We'll be right back. Now, it's time for Casey Johnson, Live Happy Marketing Manager and cat owner, to talk to us about PrettyLitter. [CASEY JOHNSON] [0:14:49] PF: Casey, welcome back. [0:14:50] CJ: Thanks. With three cats, PrettyLitter has become an essential part of our cat care routine. I must say, I understand why it's called PrettyLitter, because the packaging and the crystals are gorgeous. They live up to the name. Plus, they're super lightweight and lasts up to a month. That means, changing out the litter boxes less often, which is always a plus when you have a cat. Even better, they're delivered right to my doorstep and come in a small lightweight bag. Now, I don't have huge containers taking up space in our small condo. [0:15:18] PF: That's awesome. We're going to give that same opportunity to our listeners. They can go to prettylitter.com/livehappy and use the code LIVEHAPPY to save 20% on their first order and get a free cat toy. It's prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVEHAPPY to save 20% and get that free cat toy. Again, prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVEHAPPY. Now, let's get back to the show. [SPONSOR MESSAGE] [0:15:44] PF: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. As we're discussing today, most of us are feeling a lot of stress these days. One thing that can add to that stress is comparing ourselves to others on social media. It's so easy to start feeling like your life doesn't measure up. But with help from therapy, you can learn to focus on what you want, instead of what others are doing. Therapy can improve your coping skills and change the way you look at your world. BetterHelp is a great place to start. All you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire and you'll get matched with a licensed therapist. You can always change therapists at any time at no extra charge to make sure you get the therapist who's right for you. It's completely online, so it's flexible, convenient, and works with your schedule. Stop comparing and start focusing with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/livehappy today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com/livehappy. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [0:16:46] PF: One of the things I want to talk about is you talk about proactively planning for stress. [0:16:51] RHD: Yes. [0:16:52] PF: it's so simple, but genius. It's like, yes. Because we know it's coming. Let's talk about that. Talk about what you mean to plan for stress and then how that's going to change the way it affects us. [0:17:04] RHD: Yeah. The strategy we talk about is cope ahead of time. In our culture, many of us have been conditioned, or raised that we need to just go amongst our day and then stress will happen and then we have to recover from it. It's this idea that the stressor comes first and then we do recovery. The reality is, our evenings and our weekends, they're not long enough to repair all the things that we need to fix. Instead, the conversation switches to, okay, if this is what my day looks like, or this season, or this week, how do I make sure I'm coping ahead of time? That means, for example, even things like, planning out your meals, because the last thing anyone wants to do at 6.00 is to try and figure out what they want for dinner, right? We're not doing this because we're really adopting the hype cycle about meal prep and all the delivery things. It's nothing about that. It’s simply, you can decide that you're going to have pancakes for dinner, but just make that decision in the morning when you have good energy, versus waiting till you have that 6.00 energy that doesn't want to be able to make another decision, or a choice. We jokingly talk about how that's a swear word in our house like, “Mom, what's for dinner?” Don't you dare talk like that in this house. [0:18:15] PF: Watch your mouth, son. [0:18:17] RHD: Watch your mouth, exactly. That notion of cope ahead of time, where if you're going to have a stressful day, a stressful season, or even, let's say, a difficult conversation, or a difficult interaction, instead of booking an appointment, or a meeting right afterwards, give yourself the gift of blocking an hour in your calendar, so you can go for a walk, or you can call a trusted friend, or maybe even just do some online shopping to find some digital dopamine. Whatever it is, it's totally cool. It's the idea that you plan ahead of time. You forecast where there likely might be a few little bumps and you already have a strategy outlined. The other part, too, when we think about cope ahead of time, right now, our calendars are so full. There's no time for anything to go off the rails. That way, when a little irritant happens in our day, it almost feels catastrophic, because we're so scheduled. Even this notion of operating at a solid 80% of the capacity of most of the time, 80% of the time, and then you have 20% for wiggle room, if things pop up, or the unexpected happens. [0:19:26] PF: We can't change the amount of things we have to do. Overall, we cannot change our must-do list. We can't change the hours we have in a day. How do we change our mindset to embrace this better? As you say, stress wisely. [0:19:43] RHD: Again, this is the idea, I think, that’s so important is that we're operating a place within our values. What I mean by that is ensuring we're doing the things that matter most and make the matter most for the right reasons. I can give you a quick example, where when people show me their calendar and we say, okay, what are those must do's? What's not even, that's non-negotiable? Often, things that we might feel are non-negotiables, or must dos, actually might not be the way that they are. But we've just told ourselves that they are. I could give you another quick example. I remember one time, my son, he's off at university, he called, he's like, “Hey, I'm on my way home with some friends.” I said, “Okay, but not yet. I just need a few more hours, because I need to make our house look like nobody lives there.” That’s the goal, right? Anyway, so I'm frantically running around, trying to get the house looking like nobody lives there. What was so amazing, in the meantime, he had contacted his siblings who were home. Hunter said like, “What is she doing? What's mom doing that’s so big that we can't come home yet?” The little brother goes downstairs and he sees me wiping the baseboards, right? I'm wiping the baseboards and Jack says to his brother, “She's wiping the white stuff along the bottom of the room.” Hunter is like, “Okay.” Anyway, so a couple hours later, Hunter and his classmates come back to the house and they walk in and Hunter takes his friends, his new friends from university right into the dining room. He's showing them the baseboards. He's like, “Boys, I want you to see how clean my mother's baseboards are.” I was mortified. I was so mortified. I'm like, “Dude, I can't believe you did that. You just outed me like that.” He's just like, “Hey.” He's like, “Mom, if you're going to put it in the effort, I just want it acknowledged.” It was this awesome moment, again, where I was just like, I felt I had to do that before he came home. Paula, he lives in dorms. I can't even tell you the state of – [0:21:37] PF: Right. If there's not food on the floor, it's clean. [0:21:40] RHD: Exactly. In the moment it felt that I had to do this. This was so important. As soon as we take that moment to zoom out and look at the big picture, a lot of this stuff really doesn't feel as must do anymore. I tell you, kids need a present parent. They don't need a perfect parent. They just need us to be present. [0:22:03] PF: Yeah. I love that. Prioritizing, you talked about it a little bit. How do we start that process? Because we've got so many things. Like, list the most important thing. Well, I have three of those. [0:22:15] RHD: Yes. [0:22:16] PF: Where do we get this prioritization going for us? [0:22:21] RHD: Again, one of the things that we talk about is making the invisible visible, right? So many of us, especially when we're the predominant person in the household, we hold so much knowledge that literally it's like, we're these oracles, right? We have all of this knowledge in our head, but none of it's visible. As soon as we start to make it visible, so if we even just grab a piece of paper, or a whiteboard and just start mapping out all the things that we feel we need to do, and then again, just looking at it, taking that step back and being like, is this a must do? Or is this, it would be nice to do? Is this really an alignment with how I want to feel? How I want to be, especially when we think about all that invisible labor in with our family systems. Again, once we start looking at it and getting it out of our heads, putting it on paper, we're going to realize that there's some places where we can get some clarity, and especially around simplification. Things do not need to be as complex, I think, as we're making them out to be right now. [0:23:23] PF: But it's almost become our way to just complicate things. Why are we doing that? [0:23:28] RHD: Well, I think it's very much because we're trying to fit in. We're trying to fit in with the people around us, versus finding our sense of belonging. Our sense of belonging, when we're with the right community, we don't feel the need to try and compete. If you're with your people, with the right friends and the right community, this isn't a competition, because I want you to win as well. It's those people who, yeah, they can show up and have a barbecue and we're not feeling the need to run around the house to make it look that no one lives there. We're not feeling that need, that everything has to be perfect. Because for the right people, that's not what they're interested in. They're interested in the people in the space, not what some of these spaces look like. I think just that competition sometimes and that social comparison, just trying to fit in and be included. I also think as well, there's this notion that we've lost sight that we have way more control in this whole situation than we really acknowledge, because it doesn't have to be this way. We can step out of this race at any time and we can run our own race. We can do it our own way. Again, I think so often, we give up so much of our ability to choose and identify what matters most to my family, or to my community. We just get pulled along in this current. But we can say, we're done. We can say, “This isn't how I want to feel most of the time.” That's what I really encourage people, when we think about these practices that are going to foster self-care, or self-stewardship, it's not like, what do you want to do, or how do you want to look, or what do you want to achieve? The question is, how do you want to feel? I know personally, I want to feel present. I want to feel grounded. I want to have space for joy. I want to have space for spontaneity. I want to have space for us to be able to enjoy our days. They're very, very special to be able to have these opportunities. [0:25:16] PF: As you say that, you can almost hear people saying, “Yes, but.” Because we think, “Oh, yeah. That sounds great. That sounds great for you, but you don't understand how busy my life is, or how much I have going on.” You have all people understand that. [0:25:32] RHD: I do. [0:25:33] PF: When someone is sitting in your office and says that to you, what is your response? [0:25:39] RHD: First of all, my response would be to sit beside the person ear-to-ear, not eye-to-eye and acknowledge that that reality for them is real. That right now, it doesn't seem like there's another way, other than this fullness that we've created. Because we've created these lives, right? Again, I do recognize that there's an abundance of privilege to be able to say, take a break, step back, because some persons are navigating some big complicated situations. Even with that, there is a way to do it in a gentler, more compassionate way. I would want to sit beside that person and say, yeah, what you're feeling is absolutely real and you're not alone. I would love to show you a different way. Even just one of the questions I really love to ask people to move them out in that place of scarcity, where it's like, I don't have enough of time, I'm always chasing, hustling. I love to ask the person this question is, what does it feel like when you are connected with your favorite self, your favorite part of you? Now, this isn't your best self, or your wisest self, or your most integrated self. It's like, what are you feeling when you're your favorite version of you? I love how this question just dismantles a lot of the roles and obligations and the shoulds and I have tos, and it just allows people to reconnect with the parts of them that are like, “Hey.” I hear things follow like, “When I'm my favorite self, I'm not worrying as much. When I'm my favorite self, I roll with things a little better. I don't hold things so tightly. Maybe I'm a little bit more child-like, and I'm up to new adventures, or maybe there's a curiosity, or a silliness.” Again, I think we can reactivate and reconnect with the parts of us that are really, really looking to shine and come out, because they've worked very hard, but I think they need to play as hard as well. [0:27:34] PF: Is a lot of it just recognizing what you want that self to look like? [0:27:39] RHD: I believe so. Again, self-awareness right now is the most critical social-emotional skill that we can have, the self-awareness, when we actually just take a step back and we look at that pig picture and say, “Okay is this working for me? Is this actually how I want to feel? Is this actually how I want my days to be?” As somebody who, I myself, and I write about this in my first book, I experienced a very significant, a catastrophic car accident when I was 16-years-old. That event was very much this turning point for me personally. What happens when you've had these very difficult experiences and this traumatic event is that you get this clarity and this perspective that comes, where I often ask myself at the end of the day, it's like, “If this is my last day today, is this what I want to be doing? Is this what I want to be feeling? Is this where I want to be spending my time and my energy?” Again, the reality, not to sound doom and gloom about forecasting the end of our days, but there's something pretty powerful when you pause and be like, “Okay, if this is my last day, am I going to look back on and said, it was a good day, or I made the best of it?” I think, again, just that awareness and those radical shifts, they're not these – it's interesting. It's the little things done well and those little things aren't that little after all. [0:29:02] PF: Yeah. One thing that I've started doing, a lot of it is due to the recent death of some aunts. That has given me an appreciation for things that I have to do that I don't want to do. But the fact that I can do them, the fact that I'm healthy and I'm strong and I can go do these things, it's really interesting how that reframes the things that you don't care for in life. [0:29:29] RHD: Absolutely. I could share with you just recently, I was working with, again, at a large event, and somebody was saying that, “Oh, gosh. I would do anything for my kids. I would do absolutely anything for them.” I'm like, “That's great.” A woman actually said, “I would die for them. There's nothing I would not do for my family.” I said, “Interesting.” I said, “But would you live for them? Would you take care of yourself for them? Would you prioritize your own well-being and mental health, so you can be here for as long as possible in the most healthy way?” It was just this really interesting moment. One woman actually asked me like, “Okay. Well, what do you do each day to look after yourself, Robyne?” I shared some very simple practices that I like to do. Another woman said, “Well, don't you feel guilty? Don't you feel guilty for doing that?” I said, “No, I feel guilty if I yell at my kids. I feel guilty if I yell at my husband,” or I'm sure with my husband when I know there's things that I can do to be the best version of myself and I don't do them. I don't feel guilty for taking care of myself. I feel guilty when I don't do those things. Then my family's caught up in the blast radius. [0:30:34] PF: I love that. I love thinking that way, and I love being able to remind ourselves that self-care is taking care of everyone around you, because they're all going to benefit from that. [0:30:44] RHD: Absolutely. [0:30:46] PF: We have possibly a difficult fall coming up. No matter where you stand on anything, let's say. There's a lot of stress, and it's already starting to bubble up. Using what you teach in your book, how can we approach this and plan for the stress and make it an easier time? [0:31:07] RHD: You're asking such a great question. There's so many different ways that we can approach it. I think what's really important, when things feel out of control, or there's uncertainty or division, one of the things that we can really lean into are habits, routines, or rituals, where we can make sure that we are okay. We know, for example, that morning routine, taking a few minutes each morning to whether it's go for a walk, or just write in your journal, or have that cup of coffee and just be present, and not start our day opening ourselves up to the world. We want to make sure that we just take a few minutes to ground ourselves. Then when we are able to take that time, make sure our head and our heart are okay. Then we open up to the big world that's out there, we’ll be in a better position to cope and manage with what's going on. The other thing is I think that there's also a place for avoiding certain conversations, if you just know that the outcome isn't going to be positive for either person. What I mean by that is there's some conversations just be willing to walk away from. I think it was actually the actor, Keanu Reeves, who said, he got to the point in his life where if somebody told him that one plus one equals five, he would say, “Cool, you're right,” and walk away. Stop engaging in battles with people who just live to be upset. Some people just live to be upset, and recognizing that that's not how you want to feel. There's just some conversations. That doesn't mean we turn to blind eye to big, significant social justice issues that are unfolding. I'm not suggesting that we come passive. I just want to make sure that we are as well-resourced as possible to make sure that we are okay and our family systems are okay, because that's our best chance to weather a difficult season. [0:32:54] PF: I love that. There's a lot to unpack when we're talking about stress. But right now, what is the one thing that listeners can take away with them, about how they can live their lives with a little bit less stress and learn to manage what stress they do have? [0:33:11] RHD: Yeah, again, a great question. I think where we would start is if we think about the power of our relationships. What I mean by that is we're not meant to do all of this alone. So often, when we're under high levels of stress and have lots of cortisol in our bloodstreams, what happens is we feel this tendency to lone wolf it. That we have to just be more stoic and just hustle through, push through. The reality is when we show up for one another and we nurture those relationships and connect with that collective humanity, it's going to serve us a lot better. Pushing away from that driver, that tendency to shut down, and instead of giving ourselves a timeout, give ourselves a time in, where we are able to connect with the people that matter most to us and be able to see those communities, because that sense of belonging will help us weather whatever stressors come our way. [0:34:01] PF: Robyne, you have a lot to teach us. I thank you for sharing some of it today. I do. I appreciate you coming on the show, and love this book and would love to talk to you some more. [0:34:10] RHD: I would love that. Take good care and thank you for this chance to chat today. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:34:18] PF: That was Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe, talking about resilience and how we can better respond to stress. If you'd like to learn more about Robyne, follow her on social media, check out her book, Stress Wisely, or discover her online classes to learn about resilience, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy Newsletter. Every week, we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That's all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Happy Activists: Wilson County Kind Makes Kindness Cool [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:01] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 474 of Live Happy Now. We know that kindness is crucial and sometimes these days it seems to be in short supply. But today, we're talking to a couple of happy activists who are creating kindness in a place you might not expect. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and this week I'm joined by Mayor Randall Hutto and Project Administrator Susan Shaw, who are the driving forces behind an initiative in Tennessee called Wilson County Kind. As the name implies, Wilson County Kind promotes kindness, starting with local government. Randall and Susan are here to share how this initiative started, why it's important for governments to embrace kindness, and what effect this has had on their community. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:49] PF: Mayor Hutto, welcome to Live Happy Now. [0:00:52] RH: Thank you for having me. [0:00:53] PF: This is a wonderful thing that we're going to talk about today. It's something, I love the fact that it comes from a government agency. I love the good that you're putting out in the world. So, before I ask you any more questions about it, why don't you tell us, tell our listeners what Wilson County Kind is all about. [0:01:09] RH: Well, thank you for having me on the show. For us, we get lots of conversations, and lots of traffic that comes through our office. Normally, it's an opportunity for us to help people. They have an issue, many people don't walk to the door saying, “Hey, you're doing a great job.” Again, it becomes an opportunity for us to really do a setback and take a chance on how can we help that person that comes in. Normally, we're able to do that. Sometimes we're not able to, but most of the time we are. But we realize that as we began to see people come in and how happy they were leaving, the focus though was always on what's not done right, what's missing, what's not there. It reminds me of a story that I heard about a professor given a test to his college class. He handed a piece of paper out. He told him to leave them all face down. Then he was going to give them a little bit of time to write on that project and write on the test. Then took it back up and began to read what they wrote. Anyway, the test was really a white sheet of paper with a black dot in the middle of it. When they all flipped it over, he said, “Now, write what you see.” Everybody spent time writing. They talked about the dot. It was black and it was in the middle of paper, but nobody focused on the white area that was outside it. That was the point that he was making there that a lot of times when we go through life, what we focus on determines our attitude, maybe how we live. So, that was the piece that we noticed here. Once we solved that problem, those people were happy that were mad when they walked in, and we realized that there were a lot of good going on in the county, but people were just focusing on the bad things. Many times, we saw that, for sure, on Facebook, where they talked maybe about the government. We were trying to figure out how can we get the message out here that this is not really what's happening and tell the story, but many times when we did that, it would just balloon into something that would get out of control, because they would start fussing about something else. We said, what can we do to bring positivity to the people in the county for them to realize all the good things. There are definitely some things we need to get better at, things we need to correct. That's where we started the initiative in Wilson County Kind, and we said, focus on something that's good. When you see a good act, post that on social media. Send a story to the paper on that. Let somebody else know that something good has happened. So, that got the story started. Then I had an episode with a young lady that I met at the Wilson County Fair. She came up to me and we normally made it to fair and ride some rides, but she came up and said, you know what? Her goal was, was that she wanted to do something nice for Wilson County, so she made some bracelets that said Wilson County Kind on it. She gave me a couple at the fair. I wore those for a while. Then I asked her a little bit more about this. I said, “Tell me what you're doing here.” She said, “Well, I'm going to sell these bracelets for whatever anybody wants to give me. Then once they give me the money, I'm going to do something good with that money. I'm not going to pocket it for myself. I'm not doing it for me. I'm doing it for other people.” So, as time went on, what she did with that money was they actually made up some packets. Actually, they've given me several packets so far of things to give out to the homeless people, homeless population. Inside that back during the wintertime, I had a couple of hot hand warmers in there, a gift card, maybe a couple of other things, a bracelet. So, I went out and I just saw somebody on the side of the street that I knew who was homeless. I would hand that out. So, that became hit, but that was just one example of things that happened as we started talking about Wilson County Kind. Susan Shaw have her with me here. She's really the overseer of all this. I'll let her talk in just a minute about that, but there's been many other things, but that was the initial goal was to say, focus on the positive things that are happening here and let's put that out in social media or tell people about any time you catch a kind act. There's more good out there than they are bad, but we don't focus on it, so let's get that out there. So, that's the origination of Wilson County Kind. [0:05:15] PF: Well, when you started thinking about this, like how did it go from you thinking this would be a great thing for us to do for the county to spread this good news to actually becoming a program, because that's a big stretch of highway between those two points? [0:05:31] RH: It definitely was a concept that we had to spend a lot of time on. I'm going to let Susan Shaw speak for just a second, because she really orchestrated all this and made all the mechanics fall together. I'm going to turn it over to her. Susan Shaw. [0:05:44] PF: Okay. [0:05:44] SS: Thank you for asking that. Really, it originated once the mayor, we talked about this and decided that this was something to focus on and emphasize. We decided to have a campaign launch and not just a press release or something to notify people, but a real campaign launch. There was a lot of focus put on that to have activities in that launch. So, we invited everybody that wanted to come to see this and hear about this. We introduced them to Lexi Potter, who does the Kindness Clays by Lexi. Her little bracelets. We had five stations set up that were activity stations that demonstrated kindness. One of our local artists, Kim Greg, she had some blank postcards made up and with images on there that people could color. She brought some coloring materials and people could come up to her table and color it in and write a encouraging message on the back of it. We partnered with our side, Senior Living here, and we've collected all these after they were done and we mailed them to residents at her side. We purposely did several activities that people could engage in and would demonstrate kindness and really get them motivated on it. The neat thing about this with kindness is that once you start putting a spotlight on it and a focus on it, people start to notice it more. Not only does it help the recipient of the kind act, but the person that did it feels better. Then the person that received it tells three other people, and then they might go out and do something or observe something or tell more people about it. It's kind of this leveraging effect that once you start it and it can really continue to spread. [0:07:22] PF: When did it actually launch? [0:07:24] SS: It was September of last year. People asked, “Well, when does it start and when does it end?” [0:07:29] PF: When are you going to stop being kind, Susan? [0:07:33] SS: That was the answer. You don't. We have a start date, but we don't need to have an end date and we, so we keep publicizing when we observe, or see, or people tell us about something that was a kind act, we continue to publicize that. On social media, we encourage people to use #WilsonCountyKind, because that way we can pull it up and we can see what happens. I wanted to tell you one other neat story, because you heard about Lexi and another young man, a sophomore at Mount Juliet High School that reached out when he saw the campaign launch and he said, “I want to do something and I want to help in this kindness campaign.” He had an idea that he noticed that with the athletics in the high school, that they would retire old equipment and sometime he didn't know what happened. It might be thrown out or something. He said, “I would like to collect that and where could it be given?” In the county, there's an initiative to try to start a boys and girls club. He said, “How about if I collect the equipment and if there's a place to store it, I'll collect it. I'll deliver it. Then it can be used for that purpose later.” So, he did that. [0:08:38] PF: That's amazing. I love it, because what this initiative is making people do is like what can I do? They're thinking about it. They're pausing for a moment and saying, “How can I be part of that?” That's really what it takes. Like you said, it causes this chain reaction. We'll be right back with the show, but right now I want to bring in Casey Johnson, Live Happy Marketing Manager and cat owner, who's here to tell us about her favorite new discovery called PrettyLitter. [MESSAGE] [0:09:03] CJ: I love PrettyLitter. It has changed my life truly, but three cats, I feel like I'm constantly trying to mask the smell. I feel like PrettyLitter does just that. It changes the color to help monitor early signs of things like kidney issues and urinary tract infections. Not so fun fact, a few years ago, one of my cats had to have emergency surgery. I truly feel that if I had PrettyLitter at the time, we could have detected the problem sooner and taken proper action. So, I cannot recommend PrettyLitter enough if you were a cat parent. [0:09:35] PF: All right. I know you're going to be telling us more about that in the weeks to come, but our listeners can go to prettylitter.com/livehappy and use the code LiveHappy to save 20% on their first order and get a free cat toy. That's prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LiveHappy to save 20% and get a free cat toy. Again, prettylitter.com/livehappy. code LiveHappy. Now, back to our show. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [0:10:01] PF: I wonder were there any challenges to implementing it? Did you hit any skepticism or people stonewalling against, because a lot of times when you try to do good, people say that's nice, but and then they tell you why it's not going to work. [0:10:14] SS: They Mayor may have a different answer, but I'll tell you what I encountered. It wasn't exactly stonewalling. It was more, well, what does this mean? Because it's very conceptual. It's not a super concrete, but we did give examples, but it was more, well, what does that mean? What is this really? What's the end game? I guess that might be the skepticism is – [0:10:34] PF: Yeah. [0:10:35] SS: Who’s going to produce? We couldn't exactly answer that at the beginning, because how can you say Lexi Potter is going to want to give back and give these care packets. Brady Patterson is going to want to collect sports equipment and give that to a boys or girls club. It's hard to know what people are going to do, but it was pleasantly surprising that so many people stepped up and had ideas. I want to tell you about one other one. We have an SRO. A School Resource Officer. This is something that Wilson County is really proud of, because we've had school resource officers in all of our schools for long before there was so much attention put on it and money put into it from the legislature. One of the school resource officers, they have a program to give out certificates for good deeds. So, they're participating in the Wilson County Kind that when they see a student that does something that is just kind to another person, reaching out a hand, helping somebody doing something, they get a certificate with their name on it and they present it to them. They take a picture. They posted on social media. So, they've been posting it with #WilsonCountyKind, but I didn't even know that they did that. So, that affected me too. It was nice to see that, and learn that. [0:11:55] PF: I love that. So, what are some of the other things that you've done? What are the actions that you've taken as part of Wilson County Kind? [0:12:04] SS: Talking about it is a big thing and that's really the putting a spotlight on it, like I said, you don't know what the end result is going to be, but we talk about it when we go to chamber meetings or meet the mayor. Inevitably, every time we talk about it, we learn about another kind action or deed or something that has happened. I talked about it at the Ambassador meeting of the Lebanon Wilson County Chamber. When I finished talking about it, the chair of that committee said, “Susan, that is so interesting.” He said, “If I think about it, as you're talking, I'm thinking about over the last week and what acts of kindness that I observe.” He said, “I hate to tell you, but I really can't tell you any.” He said, “But I can guarantee you that right now I am hyper alert and I will be looking for it. I am sure I'm going to observe this when I go out.” I thought, that's right there, that's part of the impact and what you see happen. [0:12:59] PF: What I love about that, one thing we talk about a lot at Live Happy Now is gratitude and how having a gratitude practice really changes the way that you look at the world, because if you're going to write down three things every day, you're grateful for, you're training your mind to look for things you're grateful for. That's exactly what you're doing by spreading this message. You're teaching people to start looking for acts of kindness. So, I love that. Now, instead of looking for the bad in the world, they're out there looking for the kindness around them. That's such a powerful gift to the community. [0:13:30] RH: I think it is. I don't think it's taken attraction yet enough to where it's where we want it. We've talked about it. We've got the two citizens that she just talked about, the SRO, but we know there's a lot out there. We've got to find a way to make it a everyday train of thought, not just once in a while or one or two people, because we know just like – network came out of this after the tornadoes where volunteers came together to help all across the county. There's many good things have come together to prove that Wilson County is a kind and generous place to live. There's a lot of that going on, but nobody's telling that story. We are just getting started in my opinion with Wilson County Kind, like I have a sign in my front yard, and I wonder how many people drive by and look at it and say, “I wonder what that means.” That's the goal. We're in the early stages in my mind of people that sinking in, kind of like Wilson County, the place to be. Wilson County Kind will continue to grow. We hope, and take more and more attraction. I think it takes three or four big events to happen that we can talk about that will start spreading a little bit, hopefully, like fire throughout the county, but it has not really in my mind gotten a lot of attraction, like we hope it does here soon. [0:14:45] PF: Part of what's so interesting to me is that, okay, so we know that kindness is very important, but it's not something that you would think of tackling through a government agency. How does that work with your duties as Mayor of Wilson County to behind this movement? How do you work it into part of your duties? [0:15:03] PF: I think it comes under the duties of quality of life. One of the goals here that we have, no question, we have to educate people. We have to incarcerate people. We have to make it safe, but quality of life is one of our major points that we want people to be happy while they're here and enjoy the life that they have here. We don't have to leave the county lines for anything to be honest with you. So, I think that's where it comes in as far as quality of life goes. It's important for our people at least where I sent from to know that there is a lot of, we'll take tourism, for example. There's a lot of great things to do in Wilson County that people don't know about, so we try to spread that word through tourism, but there's a lot of good activities happening. A lot of people doing good for others that we've got to get that word out there. I think it's really going to have to happen, as Susan said, when you ask a while ago the question, but what's the problem? The but is, so how do I really help? What if I'm not good at social media? I don't know how to do a hashtag. I don't know what that means. How can I still take advantage of this? I think that's the piece that is our next step is really getting a word. Here's how you can do it. [0:16:10] PF: I love that. What do you think would happen if other communities started taking this on as a governmental initiative or it's just little pockets of some citizens trying to do this, which is a wonderful thing to do, but what if governments actually got behind that and said, yeah, that's part of, as you said, that's part of our quality of life and we're going to make this about being a kind city and kind community? How would that change things? [0:16:34] RH: I think it definitely does change things. We're working to initiative here becoming an age friendly community, which allows for different things to happen for our older families here, grants to qualify for better services for those people. I think as a government as long as and what we've really tried to do smart here is that we don't use any taxpayer dollars to do this, this is just a way of thinking of life. This is a new culture. I think it'd be great for government, because right now government sometimes has a bad tone to it in our world today, but at the local level, it's not really that. I mean, we're here to provide the services that we just talked to you about, so we want to distance ourselves from any negative tone when you say government that you may feel inside of you. I think it would allow for people to say, “I like my government. I trust my government. I'm glad they're doing this. It's not cost me any money. I get benefits from it, because people are kinder as I walk across and see them walking down the street.” We know that we live in the best part of the country, probably. I think right now is when you wave at people, you don't know, you speak to people, you talk to people, you don't find a stranger. That is in our culture here, not for sure if it exists everywhere else in the country or not, but I know it exists here and we want to continue to expound on it. [0:17:52] PF: If people are hearing this and they're saying, “This is what we need to do, like we need to do something similar.” How do they get started? This might be a Susan question. I'm not sure, because it sounds like she was driving that vehicle quite a bit. How do they go from an idea to implementation? [0:18:07] SS: Well, first of all, you get the support of people like Mayor Hutto. You get the support of somebody in government like that. Also, a support from the school systems, which we had huge support. Annie Barger, she's with the Family Resource Center for Wilson County Schools and Beth Petty in the same role for Lebanon Special School Districts. They got with us and helped plan it. Then we also, because it's not paid for with taxpayer money, we needed a small amount of money to do some promotional things, like yard signs, and stickers for water bottles, and we gave out t-shirts and all those things we gave out free at the campaign lunch. What you do is we found a great partner. We have something called Ten Community here in Wilson County. It's nine or ten banks that group together to be very supportive within the county. They sponsored Wilson County Kind and basically put up some funding this small amount, but for us to be able to buy some things that help with the PR. So, you brand it, you get the support locally of whoever it happens to be, government, school systems, chambers, our Chamber of Commerce were very supportive and the banks are helpful, because ours are very community-oriented banks in the first place. We brand it. You come up with a good name. The logo was created for us by a local visionary design group who is a local marketing firm in Watertown and they did that pro bono. Then you just have to create some spark around it. Now, there's a lot more PR that we can do and we need to do and we'll constantly be thinking and building on that, but that's how we got started. We brainstormed with people to say what our kind acts, what are some activities that people do? Sometimes it's being in the line at Chick-fil-A and saying you're going to pay it for the person behind it. That it starts a lot. That happens a lot of times and people recognize that. Then talk about it, when you see something or hear something, then talk about it. Make it known. [0:20:04] PF: I love it. I love it. What's your dream? You've got it kicked off, you're going, you're picking up momentum. What's your vision? What does success look like for this program? [0:20:14] SS: I think success looks like recognition. It looks like seeing acts of kindness everywhere you go, whether it's in a store, or a school, or at a playground, or something. It's hearing about people reaching out and doing something kind for somebody else. It's hearing more, thank you. It's receiving more thank you notes in the mail. That to me is what it looks like if you're trying to create a vision. It can continue forever, and I hope it does, and I hope it just continues to grow. [0:20:43] PF: I love it. Thank you so much for sitting down and talking with me today. I appreciate both of you. Giving your time and letting us share this with our listeners. We're going to give them all the information they need to know about how to find Wilson County Kind. They can check it out. Maybe get some ideas for doing it themselves, but thank you so much for the good that you're putting out into the world. [0:21:02] SS: Thank you for asking, Paula. We enjoy talking with you about this. [OUTRO] [0:21:10] PF: That was Randall Hutto and Susan Shaw talking about Wilson County Kind. If you'd like to learn more about this initiative or follow them on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. While you're there, you can also sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every week we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info and even a happy song of the week. That's all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Commit to a Summer of Fun with Mike Rucker, PhD [INTRODUCTION] [00:00:01] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 473 of Live Happy Now. Summer officially begins on June 20th and that’s the perfect time to launch Live Happy’s Summer of Fun. I’m your host, Paula Felps, and this week, I’m joined by Mike Rucker, an organizational psychologist, charter member of the International Positive Psychology Association, and author of The Fun Habit: How the Pursuit of Joy and Wonder Can Change Your Life. We’ve teamed up with Mike to offer a free, eight-week email course that will set you on track to have a fun-filled summer, and today, he explains why fun is so important, how to make more room for it in your life, and what to expect when you commit to having a summer of fun. Let’s have a listen.   [INTERVIEW] [0:00:49.3] PF: Mike, thank you for coming back on Live Happy Now. [0:00:51.5] MR: Oh, my goodness, I love being here, so thanks for having me. [0:00:54.5] PF: Well, you’re so great to talk to you because you’re one of the few people that I know who studies fun, and what a great career pursuit that is, you know? It’s like, I’m going to study fun. So, I wanted to find out, I don’t think I’ve ever asked you this question, like, what made you realize the importance of prioritizing fun? [0:01:16.1] MR: Yeah. So, my story really is being an early part of the International Positive Psychology Association, when that started in 2000, right? Cheek sent me, “Hi, I’m Martin Seligman.” You know, brought all these folks together, was lucky enough to be, you know, one of those early folks, and rightfully, we’re all looking at happiness, right? Because that – at the start, I think, as an ideal, trying to figure out how we can make the world, you know, happier, was a good goal. We ultimately called it thriving because we added elements of subjective well-being, right? You know like academics, we have to make everything [crosstalk 0:01:53.7]. I’m working on this on the academics now with regards to fun and I feel like in the book, The Fun Habit, I made fun fairly easy. You know, we’ll just get real quick to my definition, it’s essentially anything you find pleasurable and then I’ll circle back to your question. But now, because we can bring it down to levels, right? We’re now talking about fun in different context and I find that fascinating because again, you know, academics picking up where I left off now, you know, fun has 30 different subcategories and I think that’s great but you know, because fun in the broad context can, you know, you can start to make it too ambiguous where people are like, “You know, what does that mean for me?” And the good news is, you get to define it and we’ll get into that as we talk but what happened with happiness is that unfortunately, and we kind of have a term for it now. So, and I’m sure you’ve had podcasts about it, the term being toxic positivity, we turn happiness into an ideal. So, instead of valuing happiness, where there’s no problem with that, right? Wanting people to be happy, wanting your family to be happy, wanting to be happy, that’s not problematic. But it’s when we turn folks into being concerned about, “How can I optimize for happiness?” paradoxically, what we did was created some of the most unhappy people and I happen to be one of them, I talk about that a little bit because I was literally looking for correlations and always ruminating on you know, how I could become happier. When that happens, what we now know is you create a gap between where happiness lives because it’s always out there in the future and where your feet are. And so, the short answer to your question is, fun as a construct, is really rooted in mindfully being attentive to the pleasurable things that you do but then, also, understanding that you have the agency and the autonomy to bias your life towards those. [0:03:45.8] PF: So, why is it more helpful to pursue fun that to pursue happiness? You kind of touched on that. [0:03:52.2] MR: Yeah. So, happiness is really this lagging indicator, right? When we are asked, “Are you happy?” It is an act of retrospection, right? We have to think in the rear-view mirror, like, “Am I happy? Hmm, that’s interesting” right? So, we start comparing ourselves to our neighbors, we think about our life circumstance, which can oftentimes be ephemeral, right? We might have won the lottery, so in that moment, we’re really happy, right? But then, we ask you six months from now because some of that money has gone and you’ve kind of fallen off a cliff, right? Where fun is just something we have access to in any moment and so sometimes, it’s referred to as contentment but when you focus away from happiness, right? So that there’s something to be built further, it’s this end goal or there’s something to be achieved and then all of a sudden, happiness will occur. The fun, which can really happen in any moment, so you know, it’s this product of enjoyment and the things that we do. Once we sort of focus on that, then we do pay attention to where our feet are, like, “Wow, I’m not enjoying what I’m doing, let me change, maybe the environment or the people that I’m with or the activity that I’m doing.” We can do that in the moment and the beauty of it is once we start to index these micro-joys in our life that corpus of micro joy starts to remind us that we’re happy. So, happiness is this beautiful byproduct, and we start to become less concerned with being happy because we know that joy is right in front of us by deliberate design that we don’t have to wait around for it to happen. [0:05:30.1] PF: You know, and as kids, we pursue fun, like, that’s just our natural state. We’re looking for fun things to do and we find them and somewhere along the way, we get serious and that wears off. Is it hard for people to learn to seek out fun again? [0:05:48.2] MR: It’s not hard, that’s the beauty. I think once you kind of wake up to it, it’s clear that when you just do a couple of exercises, like the ones that we’re going to do this summer, and you become mindful that, “Wow if I enjoy myself.” I colorfully call this building my fun cup, right? “That the rest of my life is better.” And so, if there are any science nerds listening, I’ll only give a couple quick science lessons. The principle here is the hedonic flexibility principle and as I was creating the book, it was the big lightbulb, right? And so, similar to what we learned about sleep in the 90s, you know, in the 90s, we’re all wearing sleep depravation as a badge of honor, right? Because it’s how you hustle, that’s how you became more productive, right? Like, you know, winners became winners, you know, after the kids went to bed. We now know that’s an asinine assertion, folks that are in a sleep deficit are some of the least productive folks, and we’re now learning the same about leisure. Folks that don’t live a balanced life, that aren’t finding joy or at least, simple pleasures in the things that they do are also falling victim to burnout, and so under that guise, right? Fixing that becomes important and so, once you kind of understand that, once you sprinkle in some of these fun things. And just like sleep, it’s not about, you know, finding whimsy in a hundred and six to eight hours, right? Like, I’m not prescribing 12 hours of sleep. It’s that most of us aren’t having any fun at all and so, we need to figure out how to create that balance by deliberate design, and as I alluded to, it’s really easy. What I found is folks that do it well are the ones that are going to do the exercises we’re going to get into this summer. Just being deliberate, you know? What is it that I, you know, find enjoyable? Reframing what fun means to you. You know, for some folks, they’ll say, “I’m just not a fun person.” And then when I dig deeper, it’s because they believe that what’s marketed to us, right? This high arousal, “I must be at a rock concert with all my friends drinking because that’s you know, what fun is.” Or at least, that’s what Instagram tells me. No, it could be a low arousal activity where the most amazing summer for you is some alone time at the pool, engrossed in a good book that if I ask you in a couple of weeks, you know, “What was it about?” You could tell me in rich detail because that’s how meaningful it was for you and so, figuring out what those things are, and if they’re not in your schedule, being deliberate about scheduling them in, we’re almost halfway there already. [0:08:22.0] PF: Oh, that’s terrific and you know, you and I have been talking about doing this for over a year, we wanted to do a summer of fun. We talked about that and summer is marketed as being so much fun but the reality is, it’s not as lighthearted as we want to think. It’s like, crazy busy, there’s so much pressure, so many things that we have to get done, and it’s compacted into like this three-month period. Why is that a great time to start doing these exercises and make them habits? [0:08:49.5] MR: Yeah, so, I think it’s access would be the biggest one, right? I mean, there is a lot of different reasons but I have this tool called “SAVOR” and it’s essentially just an acronym and so, the “O” in SAVOR stands for “Options.” When we have better options, we tend to have more fun, and the summer just provides so many options, right? I mean, even for small communities like my own, there are things that are available to us for free that we can engage in and discover which you know, and we’re learning how to do that and that becomes a proxy for actually getting it done. You know, we’re kind of in the winter months, and no one’s leaving their homes, it’s so easy to just essentially be in the groove that we’re habituated life and let that time pass us by but the extended daylight that summer provides, the fact that folks tend to have a little bit more autonomy and agency and then again, just access to activities, quite frankly, sometimes, for us, it can be a nostalgia because as you mentioned, as kids, a lot of fun in the summer, and so wanting to get back there, using that as a lure to be like, “You know what? Summers are meant for fun.” All of these can encompass, you know, good tailwinds for getting us started. [0:10:05.8] PF: And you’ve created for us, we’ve partnered with you to do – provide this eight-week email course for free and I absolutely love it. I’m so excited to share it with everybody. Can you kind of talk us through just really, briefly touch on these eight steps and what they’re going to learn along the way? [SPONSOR MESSAGE] [0:10:22.6] PF: We’ll be right back with Mike, but part of having fun this summer, includes, getting better sleep. I’ve become such a big fan of cozier sheets for a lot of reasons, but as the temperatures rise, I found one more reason to make them the only sheet I want to sleep on. Thanks to their cutting-edge temperature-regulating technology, Cozy Earth bedding lets me stay cool and comfortable, even on the hottest nights. That means, I can wake up refreshed and ready for the day, and here’s the best part, our exclusive offer for listeners like you, gets you a 30% discount and a free item, using code “Cozy Happy” at cozyearth.com/livehappynow. I bet you’ll love the unbeatable combination of softness and durability as much as I do. So, invest in your sleep health this summer and stay cool, backed by Cozy Earth’s 109-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty. Visit cozyearth.com/livehappynow today to unlock this special offer and optimize your sleep for better health, and after placing your order, be sure to select, “Podcast” in the survey, and then select, “Live Happy Now” in the drop-down menu that follows, and now, let’s find out Mike Rucker’s eight steps to having a summer of fun. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [0:11:37.3] MR: Yeah, so, the first thing is really just being aware of what you find fun, right? For adults, oftentimes, we do need to reconnect to, “What is it that I want to integrate?” And the issue there is, especially folks that find themselves in that sort of inverse euchre of happiness that so many of us talk about, right? And for folks that aren’t, you know, familiar with that, essentially what we know is that because between, you know, let’s say, 25 and 65, let’s cast a wide net, with some of the [inaudible 0:12:04.5] time for us, right? And we’re not in school anymore so we kind of lost some of the agency and autonomy we had there and so, we need to deliberately integrate some fun into our schedule, and so that’s the first step. Like, “What is it that I want to do?” Because if we allow, you know, FOMO and kind of the rhythms of our family to dictate everything, then oftentimes, we can feel very passive in that. We want to feel active, and then it’s pre-committing to those things. So, really early on in this course, we’re going to pick a few things that we want to do and make sure they happen and that doesn’t necessarily mean that we have to pay for them in advance. We’re going to learn, you know, some simple tactics to just make sure that we’re actually doing the stuff that we want to do this summer, and then the rest of the course is just an ode to things that can kind of amplify our fun. So, are there opportunities in your schedule to at least get out in nature to some degree? Are you connecting with the people that you love? Because, even if you’re an introvert, right? At least, having some prosocial interaction is what we know great and set, latency, enjoyable experiences, and then it’s, how do you invite yourself to the local culture because like I said, summertime is really great because there are all these opportunities to enjoy your township or the county that you live in. And yet oftentimes, if we don’t go looking for it, we don’t know it’s there and then one of the last modules is about kindness because I think kindness really does pair with fun. We’ll get in, for the folks that want it, I’ll send links to the studies but really doing that in a joyful way, like, “How can we play with kindness in a sort of fun way to end this strong?” And then the last module would be, how can we use all of these tools that we learned over the duration of the course to kind of move into fall and continue to benefit from what we’ve learned over the summer? [0:13:58.0] PF: It’s such a great set of action steps and I was curious how you developed this process because it’s very thoughtful, very measured. You know, it’s so easy to do and I’m like, how did you come up with all of this? [0:14:12.9] MR: Well, an ode to one of my collaborators, Haley, who is a diehard introvert and so we would go back and forth because as she was helping me put together – she’s been my blog editor too for like, 10 years and so the kernel of the idea really started with her because she was like, “Okay, you know, you’ve over-emphasized” on sort of higher all activities in certain content that I put out and you know, I am doing this with my friend. And I am doing this with my friend and so I started to pick up on that. I was like, “Wait a sec, are you guys doing this in a systematic way?” And she’s like, “Yeah, we kind of, I’ve pre-commended to this and we made sure you know, that we do X, Y, and Z.” And you know, for folks that are listening, you might know that movie Tag about adults that have kind of committed, you know, enjoying each other’s company every year. And so, as we were putting this together, we realized that folks that either had some sort of program were a lot more successful than folks that did it in an ambiguous way. So, the short answer is this is really just a reboot of the year of fun, which was a program, you know, to stretch it out an entire 12 months but because the summer you know, is so ripe with opportunity for fun and then as you know serendipitously, right? As we were putting this together, the New York Times reached out, you know, because they were like, “Let’s invite our readers to fun.” It was all, I think, the universe saying like, let’s – with November coming up, no matter what your slant is I think we’re all kind of bracing for you know, fall, maybe not being as enjoyable as we would like and so, having this opportunity to you know, make sure that we maximize our enjoyment with both what we want to do but then also sharing that with our loved ones became important. [0:16:02.2] PF: Yeah, I love the way that all came together. [0:16:05.0] MR: Another thing that I think we’re really awakening to is that fun is one of the most useful aspects for engaging in all of these lifestyle changes that we’d talked about for what? The last 50 years? [0:16:16.2] PF: Get up, move around, healthy behavior, yep. [0:16:19.3] MR: But instead, we’ve been talking about want for the last quarter of a century, right? Like, you know we get fixated on the World Health Organization and I am guilty of this too, like I have to get that 115 minutes of exercise and yet, we never stop to ask, “Are the things I’m doing for exercise enjoyable? Am I drawn to them? Do I find them pleasurable?” Now, studies are finding that if we ask that question first, that is actually the most successful moderator with regards to anything that we can do with health interventions. And so, that one is just serendipitous for me, you know, the fact that I have looked at enjoyment for so long and oh, it just happens to be the most useful tool when it comes to you getting people to engage in healthy behaviors. That’s been such a pleasant surprise for me. [0:17:04.2] PF: That’s awesome and so what do you hope that people will get out of doing the summer fun eight-week email course? [0:17:11.2] MR: Well, obviously, I hope they have a lot more fun. [0:17:13.2] PF: Yeah. [0:17:13.9] MR: And like I said, you know, these tactics aren’t going to be earth-shattering and luckily, we’ve made them very bite-sized, right? So, this isn’t going to take much time for people to get through but the nice thing is these simple and not just really can right that ship. If you feel you know, life has gotten a little bit mundane, you know, you feel a little bit stuck, all the you know, adult life is about habituated behavior. You know, we’re going to kind of unroot that and hopefully, sprinkle on some of those micro joys during your summer. So, a few more smiles and a few more hugs, and a few more belly laughs. [0:17:47.4] PF: Something we can all benefit from. [0:17:49.8] MR: Exactly. [0:17:50.7] PF: So, fun is one of those things that doesn’t seem like, A, that anybody would be opposed to it or that there should really be any stumbling blocks to having fun but I am sure there are things that keep people from having fun. What are they, what keeps people from practicing fun? [0:18:06.6] MR: You know, there is so many that it’s going to be different for each person but certainly, we’re time [importer 0:18:14.2] right? So, it really does require a little bit of deliberate design and so we’ll get into that. For some, it is a sense of guilt. A lot of folks and there’s gender slang to this, you know, it is certainly excuse the female but they feel like they find joy in serving, right? It’s called the sandwich generation, right? So, they want to take care of their kids in a very loving way, they have aging parents that they want to make sure they’re okay and they feel like if they take time off the table, and when I say that, I am not just talking about females. Again, it’s just we know that there is a bias towards that data that they tend to be the family caregiver, right? That if they are engaging in some sort of self-care that they can’t fully be in it because they feel guilty because it is taking time away. And what we’ll learn in the course is that that’s anything but, that to be the best version of yourself so that you can be the most productive and have the vigor and vitality to be that good person when you are doing these things, those require just a little bit of time for you to enjoy life because when you don’t, what happens is you ultimately end up getting depleted and even the best of us, right? So, the last chapter in the book, I look at folks that have essentially dedicated their whole lives to serving others with regards to nonprofit and when they’re completely selfless, eventually, they won’t have anything left in the tank to get and so, when you think about it as being the long game, then fun in that sense really does become important and so once you learned that, I think it’s easy to then recalibrate. Like, “Wait a second, this isn’t a guilty pleasure, right?” Which is such a horrible word anyways, this is really something that is going to impact me in a positive way where I can bring that to the folks that I love, and then if you want to get even geekier about it, that’s actually contagious. When you are happy about what you are doing, you tend to set ripples, you know, both at work and at home that will then catch on with the folks around you. And oftentimes, you can create positive upward momentum in really easy ways, you know, just by doing a few things that you have to look forward to and like to go one level deeper, the reason is, is that we know that folks that don’t have something to look forward to even if it is just an hour out of the 168 that you have in a week, if you have like a really tough three or four days and we all have them and there’s nothing in your schedule that you’re like, well, at least, you know, something as simple as, “I might go have ice cream with my best friend.” If you don’t have that to look forward to, then you really lack one of the significant tools of resilience because like you just – then what your brain starts to feel is, “This crappy day is just going to be on repeat” right? But again, just some small form of simple pleasure to kind of root yourself like, “Okay, I’m in it right now but I know that something down the pipe is going to be fun and I’ll get there soon enough” is all it takes. [0:21:21.8] PF: We’re big on that on our house, making sure we have at least one fun thing going on. Like there’s got to be something on that calendar that we’re going to do that we’re really looking forward to and it does make a difference. [0:21:34.7] MR: Yeah. I mean, you already know because you’ve been living it for a while but I think you know, for a lot of busy adults we just forget, right? That we have some of that control. A study that I bring up all the time and I think you had him on the podcast because she has an amazing book herself called the Happier Hour. So, you know, her vacation mindset study, she didn’t do anything but just remind folks that they have agency and autonomy as they go in. And just remind yourself that this is meant to be a reprieve and you know, all of the positive benefits. Essentially, what they found was they saw some of these benefits you would get from an actual vacation just having a vacation mindset going into your weekend and so it’s this small sort of reframes, you know, what I call story editing, that can be really powerful but yet, so accessible to almost all of us. [0:22:24.8] PF: One thing has struck me as I was going through the emails and what you have planned for this course is this would be a great thing to do with an accountability partner because it’s like, you sign up for it and it’s like, this is going to be fun but as you said, we have to commit to that time and it can be easy to let it slip away. So, how do we do that, how will that help if we get somebody to do this course with us? [0:22:48.0] MR: Well, it will help on multiple levels, right? So, one, especially if you want to do some fun things with you know, a good friend, then that social contract is precommitment and so you’re going to get those things done, right? I mean, you started talking about it, it’s much more likely that happen. I would say that that’s the biggest benefit but then also, you can share ideas, right? Oftentimes, brainstorming is really enriched when you can say, you know, and I’ve actually seen this, which to me, it’s a little bit foreign. So, like I love when it works but I don’t quite understand why some people need to do this. A good friend of mine who I don’t think, I’ll just say his first name so I don’t out him but I literally had a conversation with a good friend a week ago who wanted to read, go through the play model because he felt that his life had gotten habituated. And he asked his wife, “Where do you see me light up? Like, where do I have fun? Because I’ve kind of lost that scent, you know?” Life is so busy because they have two small kids, like, “When can you just tell like, I’m in my moment.” And she gave him those clues because he couldn’t find themselves and she was spot on, and so sure enough, he implemented that in and I just checked in with them and yeah, you know, they were working. And so, for some folks, you know, that type of communication with a good friend that can kind of gut check you and go, “Really?” You know? Like – because sometimes too, you know, I think we talked about this last time, you can trick yourself. I mean, at the lowest level, it’s social media use, right? Often times, we’re just escaping frustration and boredom so we can trick ourselves into thinking like, what we’re doing is enjoyable when it’s not really. It’s just something that we’re doing to pass by the time and get away from the garbage. So, being a little bit more proactive, what, in geeky behavioral science we call, active leisure can be helpful too and so, having an accountability partner like, “Is that really fun or should we go do this because it’s a little bit more challenging?” And I think, will lead to kind of a richer experience, it can be helpful. [0:24:52.8] PF: That’s awesome. So, I’m really looking forward to seeing what people say about this, what kind of experiences they have. What I’d like to do is have you back at the end of the summer and we’ll talk about this. We’ll get feedback you heard, what we’ve gotten back from it, and really, you know, I’m going to walk through this experience too and really talk about how it changed and then how we can take that into the fall and winter months because, as you noted, it might be one to buckle up for. [0:25:19.7] MR: Well, and we call it the fun habit for a reason, right? Might as well turn it into a habit so that you know, this is again, the long game, right? Not just something that is episodically done and then moved on from – we’re not meant to just have fun this summer. [0:25:33.0] PF: All right, well, we’ll do it all year long. Mike, thank you so much for sitting down, I’m so excited to share this email course with our listeners and I will see you back here in a couple of months and we’ll talk about it again. [0:25:43.5] MR: Yeah, I can’t wait. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:25:49.2] PF: To sign up for the Live Happy Summer Fun with Mike Rucker, just visit us at LiveHappy.com and click on this podcast episode. We’ll also tell you how to find Mike’s book, The Fun Habit: How the Pursuit of Joy and Wonder Can Change Your Life, or follow him on social media, and while you're there, you can also sign up for our weekly Live Happy Newsletter. Every week, we drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info and even a happy song of the week. That’s all we have time for today, we’ll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode, and until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make everyday a happy one. [END]