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Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Make Your Summer Fun Last All Fall [EPISODE] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 481 of Live Happy Now. As students and their teachers head back to school, summer is ending, but that doesn't mean our summer of fun has to. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and two months ago, we launched Live Happy's eight-week summer of fun email course with organizational psychologist, Mike Rucker. Many of our listeners signed up to get a weekly reminder of how to add more fun to their summer. This week, Mike is back to talk about how we can take what we've learned about having fun and make it last all through the fall and winter. Let's have a listen. Mike, welcome back to Live Happy Now. [0:00:41] MR: Thanks for having me back. It's always a pleasure. [0:00:43] PF: Hey. So, we are wrapping up a summer of fun, but that doesn't mean we have to quit having fun, I guess. [0:00:49] MR: Absolutely [0:00:51] PF: So, I have really enjoyed this whole campaign that we did. I think one thing that happens with summer, we can get caught in one of two traps, and this is like, this is my fun time, or we're still so busy that we feel cheated out of summer fun. We have it in our heads from the time we are kids, because that's, hey, we're out of school, that's when we're supposed to have fun. Then. we become adults, and it's like, "Well, wait a minute. I'm not having much fun. I'm working every day. I'm doing all these things." That's what I loved about the summer, a fun series. It was a reminder of, you can build fun into your life in simple, small ways, and it is incrementally adding up and contributing to building joy into your life. [0:01:36] MR: Yes. One of the other things that I found fascinating just recently – well, not recently. I think recently, I had this awakening, but it was because there's been a plethora over the last four to six weeks, and maybe some of it came in through this program. But just how time poor working moms are. So, that particular persona in general are doing so much to organize the fun of their kids going into this summer. That when it comes time to think about themselves, like that amount of energy is already expended on others, even though they still wanted to enjoy their time too, because there is that opportunity yet. Instead of planning somewhat for themselves, they've given it all away for others to make sure the kind of proverbial leaders eat last. But oftentimes, when you don't have anything left, or you're like, "Okay, everyone, I just want to rest now." What a shame, because you still have those opportunities, especially if the folks that you generally care for are at away camps or whatnot. So, having that foresight, something as simple as the fun file that we talked about early in the series, so that you have premeditated, like, "Wait a second, there are a few things I want to do or there are a few friends I want to catch up with." Instead of what happens all too often. We always say it's not going to right, but comedians abound talk about this. Three months will pass and be like, "Oh. Well, that didn't happen, maybe next summer." I mean, it's just a shame, when all it would have taken is just a few minutes to get that momentum going. I think that's what we really tried to do here, just those primes can be all it takes. [0:03:18] PF: Yes. You bring up such a good point, because especially working moms. It's funny because we have an episode coming up next week about our invisible jobs, and it really deals with that how we're working full time. But then, we also have these invisible jobs at home, and we're exhausted by the end of the week. So, even when you do have that opportunity for fun, you might turn it down just because you feel so depleted. I think what your email series really does is when you commit to it, then, especially mothers are good at not breaking commitments. It's easier to break a commitment with yourself, but if you have made that commitment with a friend, we're going to do this, then you're going to go out. It's amazing how much it does fill you up when you go out and eat. As tired as you are or as much as you're saying, "I've got all these other things to do", it really does fill you up to go out and do those things and discover your fun habit. [0:04:10] MR: Yes. We made it clear when we first connected that the idea isn't to over prescribe your schedule. So, this isn't meant to add on. It's just so many folks do find themselves depleted, so they choose poor forms of leisure, because they essentially just want to displace that discomfort. It just wasn't that great. So, let me do something that doesn't really fill me up, but at least just pacifies the time. What we know is, even though it takes a little bit of effort, similar to kind of beginning exercise. When you do find a few things that are enjoyable within the balance of the cadence of your life, you actually have more energy later. That generally happens quickly. So, I find folks that kind of – especially if they're picking up an old hobby that they were good. That first week sometimes can actually not be that fun, because they're like, "Oh my gosh. I used to be so good at the guitar." But if you get past that first week. I mean, I can't even think of an exception that makes the rule where folks were happy. This isn't just conjecture, anecdotal from the folks I've worked with, researchers in this area. I often cite Cassidy Holmes, have looked at folks that do this, and then the hedonic flexibility principle supports this as well. Almost always, you go back and check in. You're glad you did it. You feel invigorated. There's still be an end. The classic example that 40-year-olds like to leave the party at 10, that's fine. I mean, we should all get her sleep too. But so many of us aren't doing it because we're afraid. Like, "Oh, I don't want to stay out till two in the morning." When you flex your agency, and autonomy, and actually enjoy your life, but in the confounds of the way that you want to organize, then you start to feel good about your days, and that has this ripple effect. So, it's not just for you. So, if you're like, "Okay. Well, that's fine, but I feel this sense of guilt because I still want to serve others, serve my family." Whether you're a volunteer, or in a domestic partnership, the best way to show up is if you're actually enjoying what you're doing. There's this concept called social contagion, where it's not just about you, it's about being happy when you're in the presence of others too, because that's contagious. [0:06:24] PF: Yes. I think some of the actions that you gave us to do really helped us, like you talked about volunteer, do these things to get out, and make those social connections. That's really, really important. As you said, the ripple effect that we have when we start implementing these actions into our lives and then make them a habit, it really does change things for us and for everyone around us. [0:06:47] MR: Yes. We can set a low bar for volunteering. It's always these thing, like, "Is it going to tell me to stop watching television?" or "Do I have to go pick up trash on the highway?" Volunteering can just be going to – you're paying the price of a gala, where the whole thing is set up to be entertainment, but you feel like you're also contributing. So, when you have that connection to something outside of yourself, so the hedonic sort of pleasure of it is also rooted in knowing you're doing something good, then you get double benefit. Instead of something where it's like, you're just doing it for the sake of doing it. Oftentimes, that can be helpful. But some folks, it really does create what we call a moral injury. Because you're like, "Oh, well, that was sort of a waste." Again, I could argue that it's not, but if that does kind of create moral damage, then go do something that's really enjoyable, that also makes you feel good about the purpose of the particular event. I just like to put that there, because people hear volunteering, and they think that it's going to be a work. and it doesn't have to be. You can lower the bar there. [0:07:52] PF: That's right. That's a great point to make. As I was receiving these emails, as I was looking at them, I wondered if you had one particular fun habit that is your favorite, I guess, your go-to. What is that? [0:08:03] MR: For me, I've been really playing with this idea of healthy hedonism. So, I was really turned off by – again, I'm not on social media that much, but my – kids are kids, so they are. So, I got introduced to this idea of hard 75. Are you familiar with this? It's a trend on social media. where people were doing these very hardcore regimens to better themselves? So, it was like, all the things that you hear from folks like Huberman, but stacked in a crazy way. I wake up, I drink water, then I make sure I meditate for 30 minutes. Just things that essentially are almost impossible if you work at all. Okay, this is bananas. So, I'm working on this concept, it's sort of that anti-thesis to that, where, how can you add enjoyable aspects to the things that you want to get done? So, that's really been my fun habit for the summer is, again, in line with activity bundling, which I talk about in the book. How can I make elements of things I probably should be doing a lot more enjoyable so that I do do them? So, that's really been my "fun habit," and it's been really paying off. Because the thing is, when you get into that mode, again, the geeky term is valence. But when we enjoy something, we're also drawn to it within reason. So, it's kind of putting accelerant on an upward spiral that I talk about. So, I've been really having a lot of fun, working out with people that I enjoy, planning hiking dates with one of my friends here to make sure that I get out in nature. But quite frankly, I almost forget it, because I really enjoy the conversation with this particular gentleman. So, those types of things really just – taking my own advice, but then doing it through the lens of betterment as well. [0:09:53] PF: I like that. [SPONSOR MESSAGE]   [0:09:54] PF: This episode of Live Happy Now is brought to you by BetterHelp. We'll be right back with the show. But right now, I'd like to take a moment to talk about self-care. Self-care is so important, especially during stressful times, but even when we know that, it's often hard to make time for it. It seems like there are so many other things that take over our calendars and we end up making time for everyone but ourselves. One way to practice self-care is through therapy, and that's where BetterHelp comes in. Therapy is a great way to discover new coping skills if you're feeling stressed and overwhelmed, and it can also teach you how to give yourself more of what you need to become the best version of yourself. If you're thinking about starting therapy, I encourage you to check out BetterHelp. Because it's online, it's completely flexible and works with your schedule. All you have to do is fill out a brief form to be matched with a licensed therapist. You never have to skip your therapy day with BetterHelp. So, visit betterhelp.com/livehappy today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/livehappy. Now, let's get back to the show. [EPISODE CONTINUES]   [0:11:08] PF: What if it's things that you don't enjoy that have to be done, like things around the house, things in your yard. I mean, summer times, it's prime time for us to do all these home improvements, get these projects done. Again, that eats into our leisure time, our fun time. So, how do you do tasks like that and make them more enjoyable? [0:11:29] MR: Yes. Anyone that's heard me talk is probably sick of this, because I talk about it ad nauseum. But anyone familiar with James Clears' work knows this well too. There's this concept of temptation bundling, and so, all I do is throw on 90s hip-hop, because I can't listen to it with my kids, because that would be a whole sidebar where I'm baffled about what gets through the parental filters of – now that everything is a story or – yes, I'm not going to listen to N.W.A with a nine and a 13-year-old in the house. So, I actually look forward to going out and doing stuff, which I didn't before, because it's my time to be able to get to enjoy that music. Since I pair that, it's really fun memories folks back at home. Not only am I enjoying the music, but oftentimes, it brings back these really fun memories I had with friends in my hometown. [0:12:21] PF: That's an excellent way to do it. I love that. [0:12:23] MR: It's funny because you say it out loud and people are like, "Really? Fun is just adding enjoyable elements to my environment." That's exactly what it is. [0:12:33] PF: It's not a task, it's not something we have to go out, and perform.   [0:12:37] MR: Yes. Exactly.   [0:12:38] PF: It's just something we add in. [0:12:39] MR: And you could push it off. We also know that there's limits, so I think we talked about it last time. But in case we didn't, there is a threshold where this becomes dangerous, right? So, let's say you're writing a book. The deep work that you need to do should be without error, or you want it to be a really good end product. That, you don't want to couple with a comedy show running in the background, right? That's not a good idea. Yes, it might be more enjoyable, but the thing you're actually trying to accomplish is going to suffer. Mowing the lawn by listening to 90s hip-hop, or what we call Dad rock now in big sound [inaudible 0:13:18]. That's not going to harm mowing the lawn. So, I mean, you need to be careful, it's within reason. But we know there's a great study for, again, geeks like me that want to know the science. Katy Milkman did some work where folks who really like podcasts, she asked them to not listen to them until they went into the gym. What she found is, not only did the folks go into the gym more, but of course, they also enjoyed what they did. Because when you really are immense in something that's enjoyable, you can often forget the thing that you're actually supposed to do. So, it's a really useful tool, again, as long as you do it within reason. [0:13:56] PF: I love that. I was doing the email series as it came through, and I got so much out of it. One thing was that I realized things that I already had in place in my life, I wasn't necessarily even putting in the fun column. I wasn't even attributing it to that. So, I think that's one thing it did for me, was gave me that intentionality and that visibility of like, "Oh, this is something I'm doing that is really good for me. One thing because we live out on a lake, and it's a really busy time during the summer, and everything is outdoors during that summer. Then, you had some great ideas of exploring local culture. There were several things that you gave, like now, I've already started this fall fun file, things like, this would be great to do you know when the weather changes, when we're not outside all the time. [0:14:45] MR: Yes. I think that's great method for extending the value if you did go through the course. Or even if you didn't, I mean, a fun file is a pretty pedestrian entry way into this work. Again, even though it sounds easy, so many of us don't do it. But if you just spend a few minutes thinking about what are some of the things that I'd like to enjoy, and I found that for me, it didn't work, so I maybe left it out. But I'm finding that I'm the exception, not the rule. Have that list right on your desk, or by your bed stand. Because then, it serves as a moniker, like, "Oh, yeah, I haven't looked at this for a week and I haven't scheduled anything." Again, the list should be short. We talk about it in the course, no more than 15 things and things that you can do. And if you haven't crossed one off yet after two weeks, it's going to nag at you. Like, wait a second. Two weeks have gone by and I haven't done one thing fun. That's a problem. Let's figure out how to sort that out. So, it really is reclaiming that agency and autonomy we all have. But oftentimes, we just forget about it because we get into our routines and we let time pass by. One of the crux that we didn't talk about, just because it was really a summary course is, the underlying principle here really is attention. In the book, I cite work by Matthew Killingsworth. We know people that kind of get stuck in this mode of mind wandering all the time, even if they are doing things you know that, to your point, might have been enjoyable if they had kind of been mindfully doing them. They're not really enjoying life. They're just kind of on autopilot. So, some of this is bringing attention to, wait a second, I can do the things that I want. Maybe not all the time, but I certainly can integrate some of that into my life. So, many of us just don't do that, especially the ones kind of stuck in the sandwich generation, as it were. [0:16:36] PF: Another thing that this did for me, you talk about social connections and maybe doing a game night, things like that. So, we have a couple in Nashville that we get together with about once a month. It's very loose, like, "Hey, what you guys doing?" So, we had gotten together, and we did this, one of those murder mystery games.   [0:16:52] MR: Nice.   [0:16:52] PF: I had such a great time. Then, I had just seen your email on talking about that, plan a game night. So, what we've done is we went through and we committed to, like every month, getting that, we're switching off who gets the game, and doing that once a month. So now, it's not just like, "Hey, what are you guys doing? When should we get together?" It's on the calendar, we know we're going to see them, and then becomes a priority. It's also the anticipatory saver, and you're looking forward to seeing them. You're looking forward to this month's game, things like that. It really was – it reframed how we were approaching our time together with them. [0:17:27] MR: That's so cool. I think one of the benefits of that too is, if you talk to an introvert and you say, "Let's go to dinner theater." They're like, "Ah." Because it's a bunch of people they don't know. But I haven't hosted one personally yet, but I have been fortunate enough to go to a few over the last year. When it's eight people that that introvert knows, oh my gosh, because – like they don't have the opportunity to flex that because they don't want to be around people they don't know. But if it's people they trust, they're some of the most theatrical, they turn into characters around like, "Wait. What's happening right now?"   [0:18:06] PF: Who are you?   [0:18:07] MR: I like when it's in an intimate setting, because it really is more inclusive than – paying six of your friends and saying, "Hey, let's go do this in a public sort of setting," which might not be as fun for everyone. [0:18:20] PF: Yes, that's a great thing to keep in mind. We have talked about – this isn't just a summer thing, this, you can use anytime. What I love is, it kind of – you've given us this toolkit of sorts to explore fun, to bring fun into our lives. So, what should someone do if they feel themselves slipping into fall and winter. The days get shorter and darker, and they feel themselves losing that sense of fun. What kind of things can they do as kind of a quick restart? [0:18:49] MR: Yes. I think you just want to start from the beginning. If you have a list that you've already done, figure out how you can get it on your schedule. The two main tools that are kind of at the starting line are behavioral concepts, premeditation, and pre commitment. So, if your list is kind of dwindled, or you look at it and, "You know what? This wasn't right, maybe I should kind of restructure it, start there, get the list, and then just make sure something gets on the calendar. There's always someone that's like, "Well, what happens if I can't do either one of those two?" Reach out to a fun friend. I mean, that is sort of rip cord, and they will always pull you out. If you at least have the strength to go, "I want to add a little bit more fun, you're always doing something fun. Is there anything that I could tag along with?" Again, I've never heard someone say, "No, I don't want you to have fun." [0:19:43] PF: No, this is my fun. You'll find it around. [0:19:44] MR: Yes. Those type of people, generally are the more the merrier type folks. They are like, "God, yes. Thank you. I should have invited you" is generally what you'll heat. That meant, it's the one, two, three. If you haven't done the fun file, think about what it is you want to do. Maybe let it percolate a little bit, because oftentimes, at first blush, you'll go back and go, "Ah" But if you can't come up with a list at all, that's kind of a separate issue. Then, just make sure you schedule a couple things. It's that simple. In all of my research, especially preparing for the book, the main difference between folks that are living a joyful life versus those that don't, and this is after 20. This isn't in collegiate. But anyone who's kind of left college that doesn't have as much autonomy over their time are the ones that deliberately schedule it, as unfun as that sounds. But it's such a small step, because once you get it on the calendar, it happens. [0:20:45] PF: How important is it for us to start thinking about that? Now, I'm thinking I've got a couple of friends who really suffer from seasonal affective disorder. Once we hit like end of October, there's a real skid into not wanting to do anything, not feeling like life is fun, it's a really challenging time for them. So, how important is it for us to plan ahead on that, knowing if we have that issue, knowing that that's going to be a problem? [0:21:12] MR: Yeah, I want to be really careful again. As you know, my background is organizational psychology, and that is a real disorder. I mean, I have a light right in front of me, so I know what clinically can be helpful. So, I don't want to suggest that precommitment is going to necessarily mitigate that, because it is a clinical condition. With the preface of that, I do think it's helpful that if you have things to do, it generally indexes fun memories that can be used as resilience. I certainly benefited from that when I was in a malaise for a different reason, for losing my brother. So, you can be in a place where you don't necessarily identify as happy or joyful because of a biological predisposition or a big life change, like a divorce, or the loss of a loved one. And you can still organize your life in a way where you're finding activities that bring you joy, that create those positive valence states. What we know is that those indexes and memories, one, again, create this kind of tapestry that will help most people with resilience. But two, it reminds you, you have agency and the autonomy, and to bring joy into your life, even during times where you find it more difficult. [0:22:34] PF: That's fantastic. So, I know we have to let you go, but I just had one last question, and that is, what do you hope that everyone gets out of this, out of doing this summer of fun series? [0:22:43] MR: Yes. I hope it kind of slingshot themselves into fall, the ability to create a lot more joy in their life. I think so many of us just need that break in our routine and that reminder that like, "Wait a second, I do have more control." So, I colorfully call it a bias towards fun. Just remember, life is kind of like going down a river, and there's no way that we can completely control where the river is going to take us. Sometimes it's going to pull us to the shitty side, but we have a lot more aptitude to be able to kind of steer it so that we have this pull to the better side, by making choices. And again, applying that attention to things that we do. At the end of the day, it's really just mindfulness repackaged, but in a way that where we're using hedonic tone, the ability to bring joy into our life in a way that makes things more enjoyable. Then, also, hopefully, leads to betterment in this upward spiral, because we realize, like, wait a second, this is abundant, and I can always call it in. Even on the days where I get punched in my face. [0:23:51] PF: Exactly. It's like that Owl City song says, you can't stop the waves, so learn how to surf.   [0:23:56] MR: Yes. I love that. [0:23:57] PF: Well, Mike, thank you so much. Thank you for doing this series, for coming on this journey with us and for sharing what you know.   [0:24:02] MR: Likewise, I'm really grateful.   [0:24:04] PF: I've really enjoyed this.   [0:24:05] MR: Yeah, it's been a blast. [OUTRO]   [0:24:11] PF: That was Mike Rucker, talking about how we can make our summer of fun last long after summer has ended. Remember, even though summer is just about out of here, you can still sign up for the summer of fun email series to get a weekly reminder of how to bring more fun into your life. If you'd like to learn more, be sure to visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Live Happy Now. If you aren't already receiving us every week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think. That's all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: What’s Coming Up in Season 10 With Paula Felps and Deborah K. Heisz [EPISODE] [0:00:02] DH: Welcome to another episode of the Live Happy Now podcast. I'm Deborah Heisz, co-founder and CEO of Live Happy. I couldn't be more excited to be here with you today. In fact, today, as we wrap up Season 9 of Live Happy Now, we want to talk a little bit about what's coming up in Season 10. For those of you who are used to our regular podcast host, Paula Felps, she is on here as a guest today. We thought we'd flip things on its head a little bit, and let me interview her for a change because we got a lot of exciting things coming up. She works so hard to make Live Happy Now, the success that it has been, with our regular listeners, we've had more than six and a half million downloads, we've had nine years of tremendous success. We've got a massive library of great interviews, great information out there for you to tap into. If you're new to Live Happy Now, and we're excited that you're listening, and we just got a lot to talk about. We're coming up on our 10th season. So, you know, there's new podcasts launched every day, but we've been going at it for 10 years. Paula, tell us a little bit about what's coming up for Season 10? [0:01:04] PF: Well, first of all, thank you for the introduction. It feels so odd to be doing it this way, because you know, I like asking the questions, not answering them. But yes, so Season 10, we're really going to build on what we did in Season 9. As you know, we did some things differently, and you're a big part of that, because we introduced a couple of email courses that we had tried. We'd started that back in Season 8, we did one on pet loss, and that has done well. So, in Season 9, we did our shot at love email course for Valentine's Day. Then, of course, we're just wrapping up our – we're actually still in it, our summer of fun email course. So, because of the response we've had, we're going to be doing more of that. One of the things I'm really excited about is, we're working with a psychologist, Dr. Lauren Cook, and we're going to be presenting a four-part email series on election stress. I think that's something everyone's familiar with, everyone's failing in some way or another. So, that's one of the things I'm most excited about. We have a lot of great guests lined up, but I'm really excited about being able to do more with our email courses. [0:02:08] DH: So, we're a podcast first and foremost, Live Happy Now. We're about bringing you all of the information you need to craft the life you want to live a happier life. But as listening to Paula, you should picked up by now, we also have other avenues where you can connect with us, our email courses, our website, livehappy.com. If people don't know about our email courses, which I know we've talked about on the podcast before, where can they access the old ones or can they access the old ones? Where can they make sure that they are registered so that they can find out about the new ones and get access to those. [0:02:41] PF: We have our weekly newsletter. I appreciate everyone who subscribes to our newsletter, because we have an incredible following. I so appreciate the support that we've gained. So, you can just go to livehappy.com. In their drop-down box, there's a newsletter tab, you can click on that, subscribe for free, you'll get happiness in your inbox every week. We get our song of the week, which I always love picking that out for everyone every week and it always goes with the theme. So, you can start with our newsletter, and then our newsletter will also keep you informed when we have special courses. And on that same webpage where you can sign up for the newsletter, you'll see a list of our courses. So, you can just kind of scroll down, find one that works for you, and sign up for free. [0:03:23] DH: Well, enough of the commercial because I know a lot of people out there know, never enough of the commercial. But I know a lot of people out there are just podcast listeners, maybe they're listening to this podcast as they take their morning walk, or maybe they're listening to it as they're working around the house, maybe they're listening to it as they drive into work, which is actually how I listened to it. Don't feel like you have to do all the other stuff to get a lot of stuff out of the podcast. We have a lot of great topics and a lot of great guests on here. Paula, you mentioned something, and I'm so glad that there's a course coming with it, which is upcoming, which is just a dialogue on how to deal with the political election stress that really is hitting so many people right now. I'm really excited about that. I need to make sure that all of our listeners understand, Live Happy does not have a political point of view. That is not what we are about. You are entitled to whatever your political beliefs are, we are happy to have you as a listener, we're happy to have you engage with us because we're really all about allowing you to craft the life that you want, so that you can be happier. We aren't here interjecting our own thoughts or beliefs, which are myriad across the Live Happy organization. We have people of all political persuasions working on this particular product. But election stress is real. So, tell me a little bit about how live happy is going to be helping our listeners and people connect with us deal with that stress. [0:04:46] PF: So, the first part of any problem, as you know is recognizing it, and this all started because of Dr. Lauren Cook, who is the psychologist who is creating the course with us. Because of course, we always want to make sure that we are rooted in the science and the psychology of it. She specializes in working with Gen Z, which is another topic we're going to talk about. But she had noticed in her client base that particularly among Gen Z, there was so much trauma and tension already early in the year about what to do with the elections. So, she and I had a conversation about it, and that just kind of snowballed. I started talking with some other experts, who are also looking at it from different perspectives. I work with a man named Rob Volpe, he's out in San Francisco area. He works in the empathy space. He brought up something that is simple but genius. He said, "Even by saying the other side, we're creating a divide." He said, "We need to quit othering one another and stop looking at it. It's not another side, it's a different viewpoint." So, there's so many things I've learned already just from talking with the guests that we're going to have and getting this all lined up. So, I'm really excited, and I know that they're going to add so much to the conversation. The thing, just as with every episode we ever do, you may not agree with every guest, but there will be something. I look at Live Happy Now as a buffet table. Because when you go to the buffet table, you don't load up everything. Well, I hope not. You don't take everything from the table, but there's always something for you, that you can find that you can learn, you can nourish yourself with. [0:06:26] DH: Yes. I think this is a very, very important topic. Like I said, we don't have a political viewpoint for Live Happy at all. In fact, our viewpoint is that we would hope that people would come together. No matter what happens in this election cycle, at the end of it, we've all got to get on with our lives and do what we can to improve our communities around us, regardless of the outcome. I think it's very important for people to learn how to deal with that stress and deal with radically different viewpoints than the ones they personally held, and how they can continue to live their life and make a difference in the way they want to make a difference. Despite the fact that they may not always feel congruent with the people they're talking to. Then, really, when we're talking about political differences, that's what we're talking about. It's no different than religious differences. It's no different than any other fundamental belief that you hold that someone else a different fundamental belief that might appear or occasionally be in conflict to the ones you hold. We all need to get better at dealing with people who think differently than we do. It'll be a much happier world when we can have civil dialogue and civil discourse, and not other people. I love that, don't other people. Welcome people, listen, understand, have constructive dialogue, but move forward. I'm really excited for that discussion. I'm really excited to listen to everything that's been brought to the table, that we're going to be going over in the next couple of months. Because let's face it, we live in the United States, the next few months are going to be dominated. When you turn on your television, when you turn on your radio, when you turn on your computer, and you open up that browser, they're going to be dominated by election news. It's impossible to escape, and they're going to be dominated by people who share and people who directly oppose your opinion. I think it's really important to keep yourself mentally healthful through all of that. I find it really interesting that you brought up Generation Z, because the happiness report that came out in March, we've talked about this on this podcast before, what it showed us is Generation Z is fundamentally less happy than any other generation we have. Well, we haven't really looked at Generation Alpha yet for that, but they're fundamentally less happy than Generation X, than the millennials, than baby boomers. It really, I think, was shocking and surprising to everybody to have that outcome. So, I know we're doing some content on Generation Z. Tell us what you have planned, Paula? [0:08:54] PF: Well, that's going to be an ongoing conversation that we have. We're going to do something about once a month, where we deal with a topic that's relevant to Gen Z. Don't mistake this for a bit, to get Gen Z listeners, because this isn't – just like with any other rights movement, they aren't the ones that are going to make the change. It's the other people around them. It's the millennials, and the baby boomers, and Gen X are the ones that are going to make a difference for Gen Z, because we have to help change the way that they move through this world. So, those are some of the things that we look at, like what can we do, what is it that Gen Z is suffering from, and why is this. I see so many headlines where they're just like, "Well, it's because they're lazy. It's because they're on their phone." We as the adults in the room are not taking the time to really dive into what's driving their behavior. And until we do that, we can't help them. The fact is, they are our future, and how they move through the world is going to affect us later in life. So, again, we're all on the same ship, just as with the political beliefs. We're all in this together, and you can't wish that their side goes down because we're on the same ship. So, it's like, we rise or we sink together. So, we have to learn what it is that they need, why it is they see things differently, why they're so stressed out, and what we can do about it. If we don't change that, what does that mean for Generation Alpha? If each generation subsequently becomes less happy, we're not looking at very good outcomes for our grandchildren and their children. So, it's trite, but we need to be the change. [0:10:32] DH: We do, which isn't to say, we don't want Generation Z listeners. We do.   [0:10:37] PF: Exactly.   [0:10:38] DH: It's not just about us, but it's not just about our Gen X's, but it is everybody else. [SPONSOR MESSAGE] [0:10:44] PF: This episode of Live Happy Now is brought to you by BetterHelp. We'll be right back with the show. But I wanted to take a moment to talk about self-care. Self-care is so important, but even when we know that, it's often hard to make time for it. It seems like there are so many other things that take over our calendars, and we end up making time for everyone, but ourselves. One way to practice self-care is through therapy, and that's where BetterHelp comes in. Therapy is a great way to discover new coping skills if you're feeling stressed and overwhelmed, and it can also teach you how to give yourself more of what you need to become the best version of yourself. If you're thinking of starting therapy, I encourage you to check out BetterHelp. Because it's online, it's completely flexible and works with your schedule. All you have to do is fill out a brief form to be matched with a licensed therapist. You never have to skip a therapy day with BetterHelp, so visit betterhelp.com/livehappy today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/livehappy. As we enter the hottest month of the year, it's a great time to cool down, and Cozy Earth sheets can help make that happen. Thanks to their cutting-edge temperature regulating technology, Cozy Earth's bedding lets me stay cool and comfortable, even on the hottest of days. That means, I can wake up refreshed and ready for the day. Here's the best part, our exclusive offer for listeners like you gets you a 30% discount and a free item when you use a code, COZY HAPPY at cozyearth.com/livehappynow. I'll bet you'll love the unbeatable combination of softness and durability as much as I do. So, invest in your sleep health this summer and stay cool backed by Cozy Earth's 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty. Visit cozyearth.com/livehappynow today to unlock this special offer and optimize your sleep for better health. After you place your order, be sure to select podcast in the survey, and then select Live Happy Now in the drop-down menu that follows. Now, let's get back to the show. [EPISODE CONTINUES] [0:12:59] DH: I think this is a really important topic because I have Generation Z children, those are my children. I was surprised by the outcome of the World Happiness Report, because I don't find them to be less happy, but I do find them to be more fearful and more stressed about things. We weren't fearful or stressed about it all that I remember, at least my peer group wasn't in the 'eighties, dating myself. But in the eighties, we just seemed a little more risk taking, a little less fearful of going outside the lines, a little more, I guess, empowered to have control of our own lives than I see in Generation Z right now. I think part of the issue we have is they don't feel empowered to take control of their lives and to live. I think there's a little bit of helicopter parenting, I think it's a little bit of coddling, I think it's a little bit of sheltering. They were all impacted by the pandemic, and it's easy for us as adults to say while the world is getting back to normal. For them, that was normal. So now, there's a new normal. If you're only 18 years old, and you spent a year and a half year life, not leaving your house or your neighborhood, that's a very different life experience than I had. [0:14:10] PF: I cannot imagine having to spend any of my high school years holed up in my house. I can't. I mean, a curfew was hard enough to deal with. So, I can't even imagine. [0:14:21] DH: I have to be home by 11? What? But I can't imagine how different they're set up. I mean, it's so different. The world is so different. So, I think it's going to be a really interesting topic. [0:14:34] PF: Can I bring up too that this is a generation that consumes their news from social media feeds. The algorithms know something that is fearful is going to get the clicks. So, they are being fed in addition to everything that they've experienced, the trauma of the pandemic, and everything else. They're being fed such negative news. I know we've talked about this with you, and your son, and you talking differently with him about that. Just because it's presented that way doesn't mean you'll never have a house. It doesn't mean you'll never be able to afford things. But that is where so many in Gen Z are coming from. Well, what's more concerning to me than that, is that Generation Alpha, which is also being called Generation Glass, because they are the first generation that's raised completely on screens, they're going to have that same messaging as well. So, they're going to be even more entrenched in getting that news that is undermining their wellbeing. [0:15:35] DH: They are also the generation that, particularly the upper end of that generation that truly missed some relationship development time with the pandemic. I have a 12-year-old, and she's very comfortable never leaving the house, she's happy. For me, that's just bizarre. I mean, she goes in the backyard, in the front yard, and we have friends over, and she does get out of the house. I don't want you to think my child's a recluse, but she's perfectly happy if she doesn't. Which is very different than, even my older two. She's at the very upper end of that Generation Alpha. So, they're just now becoming able to voice who they are. It's going to be different, because it's always different. It's always surprising. [0:16:12] PF: Right. I think it's going to be quite an adventure for us, and really eye-opening to be so aware of what's going on, and what needs to be presented differently. I think we'll learn as much as they do. [0:16:26] DH: I do too. I think it's going to be a really good season. I mean, I love that we cover these topics, because we don't have the answers yet. It's always interesting to talk about the stuff that there's no answers to, because there's so much work to be done. And I know there's a lot of studying that's going to be done, there's going a lot of stuff that we don't even know that's going to be available to us next year that's going to be coming out. It's going to be a great year. Great Season 10, Paula. Ten years. Isn't that crazy? [0:16:53] PF: How did we do it. Here's what's funny, because as I was prepping for this, and I'm like, "Wow, 10." I couldn't even remember our first podcast. So, I went back and listened to it. It was you, and you're introducing the podcast, and it was really nostalgic, it was really touching for me, because there was such enthusiasm, and optimism, and trepidation too of like, what are we getting ourselves into, and what's going to happen. To listen to that, and your hope, and your expectations. Everyone should go back and listen to it if they haven't. It's like a 10-minute podcast introducing it. It made me so joyful to listen to that. Then, to be able to look back, 477 episodes later, and say, "Wow, we did all that and more." That was really touching. [0:17:45] DH: We have definitely evolved. I haven't listened to the first one probably in eight years.   [0:17:51] PF: You should.   [0:17:51] DH: Maybe longer. I should go back and listen to that. But I know we started as a lot of companies, we've been through the digital revolution, we started as a magazine company, printing and mailing magazines to your house. Then, we added our digital website, livehappy.com, which has also evolved over time. Then, we added the podcast, and the first episode in the podcast were all about, what was in the magazine, when you go back. Not the very first episode, but what was in the magazine. Then, over time, I get to be jealous now, because Paula gets to do all of the interviewing, she gets to be the one who gets to meet with all these fascinating people and discuss their ideas. But over time, it really has evolved into the center of our business. This podcast is now our primary function. Yes, our companion newsletter is amazing. If you don't subscribe, you should subscribe. I'm going to share a little bit, and this doesn't mean anything to anybody out there in the world who doesn't follow media, but it's not just that we have a lot of subscribers to our podcast, is that our open rate is triple an open rate. Meaning, the average open rate. Meaning, people get it and they want to read it. You can unsubscribe any time, it's completely free. But we have the newsletter, we have the podcast, we post new stuff on the website. It really has evolved into being something that I'm very proud of. I'm excited about what we do, and to know that it's still all about making your world a happier place, and giving you the tools that you need. And it's all still grounded in science, we're not making stuff up. I mean, sometimes –   [0:19:21] PF: Not often, anyway, no.   [0:19:23] DH: Not often. Usually we'll say, this is our opinion, and we have really no idea, but we think this may be what's going on. But we're not making stuff up. But it's still grounded in science, and I'm really proud of it, and I'm excited to be entering our 10th year. I'm going to be on as often as I can. I want to close by asking you, Paula, two questions. The first one is, what is your favorite recollection about being the podcast host? What is your favorite thing that you've been able to do from the seat and the role you play at Live Happy? [0:19:52] PF: Oh my gosh. That is probably the toughest question you could ask me. I cannot even put into words the way that it feels when I have a dynamic interview. I feel like it's how a musician must feel when they walk off the stage, and they've just had the crowd roar. There's a feeling that you get when you're interviewing people, and there's a flow, and insight that they're giving to you is so meaningful. You're like, if it means this to me, I know it's got to resonate with somebody else. That has been the most gratifying experience that anyone can imagine. [0:20:27] DH: I'm chuckling because for our related podcast and other podcast that I'm in, which is called, Built to Win. We just did an entire episode on flow, and getting into flow, and how that feels. It's fascinating you find your flow through dynamic dialogue, that's great. For those of you who don't know what flow is, we've got tons of stuff on it, we've done tons of stuff on it on Live Happy. It's kind of essential to achievement, it's essential to an overall sense of positive wellbeing. There's a great book on it. It's a little technical, but there's a lot of articles summarizing that book. It's by Mihaly Csikszentmihaly, and it's called Flow. You should check it out if you haven't already. It's one of the foundational books of really Live Happy and Live Happy Movement. So, you should check that out if you haven't. So, that was question number one. Question number two is, what are you most looking forward to in our future? What do you think is on the horizon that you're just super excited about? [0:21:23] PF: Oh, our newsletter. We have so much growth plan, and so many exciting things that we're going to be unveiling through our newsletter. People don't know this, but I also work with an International News Media Association, and have learned so much about how we can engage with people, and how we can really reach people through newsletters. It has kind of changed our whole platform of how we approach this. I'm super, super excited. I love our listeners, I love our audience, and I'm really eager to share all these great new things with them through the newsletter. [0:21:56] DH: Well, thank you, Paula. Thank you for letting me sit in the interviewer chair.   [0:22:00] PF: Any time.   [0:22:00] DH: Although I probably pontificated more than I used to, more than I needed to, I mean. But I'm super excited about this upcoming season. I'm honored that you still let me take credit for a lot of this, because Paula – for those of you don't know, Paula is the heart of what we do at Live Happy. She is the center of the wheel that keeps all the other folks moving, and I could not appreciate her more. It is a joy working with her, and it's also a joy being able to be a guest on the podcast when I'm a guest, and letting me host this time brings back old memories. I miss hosting, I missed that flow that you get from that dynamic conversation. But I love listening to them, so thank you so much for everything you do. [0:22:34] PF: Well, thank you, and we'll have you back to host again. [0:22:38] DH: All right. Take care, Paula. [END OF EPISODE] [0:22:44] PF: That one was Deborah Heisz, talking with me about what's in store for Season 10. If you'd like to learn more about what we're up to, or sign up for our weekly newsletter, or any of the email courses we talked about, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. If you aren't already receiving us ever week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think. That is all we have time for today. We will meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.   [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: How Music Shapes Your Mind With Renee Fleming   [INTRO] [00:00:04] PF: What’s up, everybody? This is Paula Felps, and you are listening to On a Positive Note. Renowned soprano, Renee Fleming has performed on some of the world's biggest stages, performing in operas, concert, theater, and film. And she was the first classical artist ever to sing the national anthem at the Super Bowl. But now, the five-time Grammy award winner is using her voice to help improve our wellbeing. For her new book, Music and Mind: Harnessing the Arts for Health and Wellness, Renee has curated a collection of essays from leading scientists, artists, musicians, creative arts therapists, educators, and healthcare providers about the powerful impact of music and arts on health and the human experience. She's here to talk about how this project came about and why she is so committed to sharing this message. [INTERVIEW]   [0:00:53] PF: Renee, thank you so much for joining me today.   [0:00:56] RF: Thank you, Paula. It's great to be with you.   [0:00:58] PF: Oh, it's such an honor to have you on the show. Most of us know you as an acclaimed and accomplished performer, but what our listeners may not know is that you are also an incredible advocate for the healing power of music. So, I was curious to know how you began discovering that.   [0:01:14] RF: It was basically, I'm a performing artist, so I've known my whole career that it has a powerful effect on people, the music. I've gotten so many letters and met so many people who have said, "Your music got me through cancer, or lost, or any number of things." But I was surprised to find that researchers were studying music in the brain. I was following all of that kind of armchair, newspaper reading bits about this type of research, because I had somatic pain that I was trying to unravel, and understand. Like, "Why my body was producing pain so that I wouldn't perform?" It was kind of a connection to stage fright, but a connection to performance pressure overall. So, that's how I stumble across this and then I met, Dr. Francis Collins at a dinner party, which he outlines in the introduction of the book. But it was extraordinary, because I had just started as advisor to the Kennedy Center, and I said, "You know, I think the audience would be incredibly interested in this. Do you think we could provide a platform for the science?" Because he had a new brand initiative at the National Institutes of Health, and he said, "We're discovering that music, and incredibly powerful, it activates all known mapped areas of the brain when we engage with music."   [0:02:34] PF: Do you think that it helps that you're coming from as a performer versus a scientist? Are people more willing to maybe listen to you or attend something that you're doing than if it was going to be an academic who is presenting on it?   [0:02:50] RF: Well, when I perform, doing a wonderful National Geographic program now, then I'm touring around, certainly the US, but I hope to get to other countries as well with it. I'll be in Paris with this project. So, they made this stunning film, and it goes with an album that I won a Grammy for last year, called Voice of Nature: The Anthropocene. But as I tour and perform, I offer to these performing arts venues, and programmers a presentation on Music and Mind. I bring the audience and they're actually cast with finding local researchers, healthcare providers, therapists, music therapists, art therapists. It's broader than music, although music has probably, I would say, the most research at this point. Because it was easier to measure than dance or visual art, but they're all powerful.   [0:03:41] PF: Is it a challenge to make it accessible to a general audience, or do you find that's pretty easy to do?   [0:03:47] RF: I would have thought so, but I'm the general audience. When I sat for two days at the National Institutes of Health, and heard ten-minute presentations in panels, two days of it by all the scientists and researchers. I thought, "I'm not going to get any of this" and I loved it, I ate it right up. I think we know intrinsically, and we know kind of instinctively that the arts have power. But now that science is vetting it, validating it, bringing a body if rigorous research to back it up, and paying for it. So, the NIH spent $40 million just on music and research, mostly neuroscience. It's incredible. And they're going to continue to spend money because there's a there there, and it is healing, and especially for a specific – at this point, we have some very proven tracks of the research. Then, they'll continue to kind of build on that.   [0:04:45] PF: Do you think that's going to help with funding arts in schools, because right now, that's a big challenge. I know I live near a small community that just got its band program cut, because they had to choose between football and band. So, do you think as we see more research and funding goes into that, is that going to change how schools and educators view it?   [0:05:04] RF: Well, there's a whole section on education in this, because research has studied the benefits of it. It shows that it improves focus, it improves attention in terms of kind of tuning out extreme noise. We know about self-discipline, obviously, and some of the things that come just with practice. But it also help kids with identity, with the sense of building their own individualness, and creativity, frankly. Steve Jobs wrote an incredible book on – actually, it was Walter Isaacson about him and creativity is all through it and the arts. All that all came from the arts. So, I definitely think that not only do we need arts education back in schools, because also, truancy is a huge issue. We're having real problems after the pandemic with kids not coming back to school. But if it's only S, and not STEM, you'll find that a lot of kids will just check out, because they need to be engaged in things they enjoy. So, yes, I feel strongly about that.   [0:06:07] PF: That's incredible.   [0:06:08] RF: I also think, frankly, the creative arts therapist would be a huge benefit to schools, to add them as adjunct to the arts educators. Because they're trained in pro-social training, they're in pro-social behaviors, they're trained in a very different way from, say, arts educators, and they would work really well together, and also lift morale for the whole thing.   [0:06:29] PF: Yes, because we talked so much right now about Gen Z and anxiety. Gen Alpha is going to be an extension of that. As your book really shows, there's so many ways that music could be the bomb that treats a lot of those issues.   [0:06:45] RF: Absolutely. I saw turnaround arts at work in DC. That was the initiative that uses all the arts. The class that I witnessed was visual art. What the teacher said to me – first of all, the kids were so quiet because they were so engaged in learning – this was second grade, learning about photosynthesis. They were drawing and it comes to life for them. If you marry the two things together, education works well. A couple of the teachers said to me, it really works for trauma, for kids who have all kinds of different kinds of trauma. Visual art therapy is extremely helpful. Music therapy is more of a one-on-one activity, or a therapist with a group. Of course, choirs. A lot of science now showing an incredible benefit by singing in choirs.   [0:07:32] PF: One thing that you did during the pandemic was your Music and Mind Live with Renee Fleming. That was an amazing program. We're going to include a link to that on the landing page for this, because it's still out there. People can still go. As you said, music helps with trauma, and COVID, the pandemic, the lockdown, that was a trauma for us collectively.   [0:07:55] RF: Definitely.   [0:07:55] PF: What is that? You received almost 700,000 streams on that program. I really encourage our listeners to go check this out. What do you think it was that resonated so well with everyone? Because I know it resonated with me, but what were you seeing?   [0:08:10] RF: It was viewed in 70 countries, so that was exciting too. I think it was the lockdown, actually that prompted people's interest, because we found out immediately that everyone's response to COVID and to isolation was to try to reach out creatively in all different kinds of ways, rooftops to windows. So, that was a real aha moment, I think for people, so this all really made sense, it hit home. People had to stop and kind of remember our roots.   [0:08:41] PF: As you studied it, is there anything that you found particularly surprising? What has been like the main learning point for you about what music is doing for us and can do?   [0:08:51] RF: Well, there were couple of things. I mean, one is, a researcher in the Midwest, Jacquelyn Kulinski, who discovered that singing two or three times a week improves vascular health in people with, to some degree of cardiac failure. That really surprised me. But the analysis is that, for this population who are often sedentary, they're probably not well enough to be running on a treadmill, singing is exercise. The pulmonary benefits of singing for lung COVID. That's sort of a no brainer, I get that, because we're all about breathing. Another recent one that surprised me was that, a study in the UK on post-partum depression. They found that, actually singing in a choir is more beneficial than any other activity to treat post-partum depression. The worst depression, the more it works.   [0:09:42] PF: Oh, interesting.   [0:09:44] RF: The countries in Europe are adopting this now. The World Health Organization is working on an initiative to get this adopted in other countries as an actual treatment.   [0:09:52] PF: That's amazing. We need to overhear. Less drugs and more music, right?   [0:09:57] RF: Absolutely, yes. Absolutely.   [0:10:00] PF: As you've learned all this, has it changed your relationship with music at all? Has it change how you perform or has it change what you listen to when you're not performing?   [0:10:08] RF: The answer is yes. This year, come January 1st, one of the last chapters in the book is about the NeuroArts Blueprint. I work very closely with them. Susan Magsamen and Ruth Katz have created an extraordinary visionary initiative that blends in all kind of aesthetic experiences. So, nature is number one. Nature, music is one of the large research areas, but it's also architecture, visual art, and dance, and more. I think the encouragement in her book, Your Brain on Art, that was a bestseller last year, is that we all can engage with art forms, whether it's doodling or watercolor, we can do anything. We can sing to ourselves. January 1st, I just said, "This is going to be a rough year. I am not going to get sucked into looking at my news feed all day. I am going to live in the NeuroArts Blueprint." So, I'm reading one novel after another. I'm going to plays. I'm going to concerts, opera, of course. I'm walking out in nature every day and I can't tell you how much happy I am. It really works.   [0:11:14] PF: That's amazing. That is something I think, well, Live Happy should be just sharing that like every week.   [0:11:20] RF: Thanks. Absolutely.   [0:11:21] PF: Because that is a big concern for people, the climate right now. By that, I mean, of course, the political climate, and the news that we're getting, and the division that's going on. And so, yes, to understand that within your book, there's actually a blueprint that tells us how we can avoid this is an incredible gift, like, run don't walk, go find it.   [0:11:42] RF: No question. The idea is that, of course, we want to be active and activate the things that we can that each of us as individuals are capable for any of those things that we care about. But you can't live it all day long. Most of us are not in a position to be able to do this. It's not our job, it's not our family. So therefore, you have to create some balance for yourself. Anyway, that's working for me.   [0:12:06] PF: That's incredible. Let's talk more about the book, because it is an incredible volume of work. It's essays from musicians, researchers, writers, educators, healthcare experts. How did the idea for the book come about? Because this is massive and I'm just trying to imagine sitting down and saying, "I'm going to have 600 pages, and it's non -academic."   [0:12:26] RF: So, I was inspired by David Rubenstein, who's the chairman of the Kennedy Center, who has a couple of TV shows and he decided at some point to take his interviews and publish them. He would edit them. I'm in his first book, which was about leadership. I thought, that is a great model. Forgetting the word out even more about the intersection of arts, and health, and the benefits of it. So, that was the idea. Of course, in my naive thinking, I thought, other people, they're going to write their chapters, and so, this will be easy. Took almost three years. It was a huge amount of work. Jason, who's on with us now, I couldn't have done it without him. I'm so proud of it. It's a really magical and unique book because there's nothing else like it. My publisher said, he was just so moved because he had no idea any of this was happening. There are stories of young people who are visionary, who've seen need in their communities, and they create incredible programs. Like Francisco Nunez in New York, who created a choir program to mix kids of different social strata. There's one in Philadelphia too, that's based on El Sistema, which is this incredible group, it's called Play on Philly. Then, you have all the artist chapters, Rosanne Cash's chapter [inaudible 0:13:47], an undiagnosed brain disorder that had to be operated on. And of course, for 10 years, people were telling her, "Well, I think you have headaches. I think it's probably hormonal." This is women in healthcare. So, her chapter is incredible, but they're really interesting. You can kind of just drop the needle on things that interest you. It's not a book that you would ever need to read cover to cover, unless you're that kind of person.   [0:14:12] PF: That's what I loved about it, because you can choose what speaks to you at that time and whatever kind of approach you want. If you want it to be sciency, we can certainly go find that. It's really something for everyone and meets the reader where they're at.   [0:14:28] RF: Really, if you're interested too, because some of the chapters are about movement disorders, really relate to people who have friends and family dealing with that, and/or Alzheimer's and dementias. It's fascinating to learn about the science. It starts with Evolution, Ani Patel, and then Dan Levitin, who also has a new book coming out in August, who does neuroanatomy for us. And Nina Kraus does hearing, why everything you wanted to know about how sound affects us. That sets it up, and then you can pick and choose your kind of subjects.   [0:15:01] PF: So, how did you decide who would participate in the book? Because you have an all-star cast there.   [0:15:06] RF: Some of its availability too, especially for the artist chapters, but everyone had to be related to this in some way. But I wanted to present a wide variety of – show the breadth of the field as it is now. In fact, if I were to do it now, I would probably make it even broader, and include more of the other art forms, because I know more people now. Every year, as I present and am involved, I meet people in different sectors who, again, are related. Health and wellness is so important to us right now, pain, some of the research on pain. I have a friend, actually, this is not in the book, but she had a type of aneurysm, a bleed in her brain, and was in excruciating pain from it, and couldn't – n lights, no looking at screens. The doctor said, "Listen to music." She discovered that the only music that helped her was Jimi Hendrix as loud as she could possibly play it. The minute the volume came down or it turned off, the pain came flooding back. So, I sent this, I thought that was surprising. I sent this to some of the neurologists who were working at the NIH. I said, "What do you make of this?" They sent me a study that had sort of brain photos, FMRI photos of excruciating pain in the brain, which was like circles, and red, and thick. Then, same person listening to music, and all the red was gone, all of the symptoms had subsided. So, to what degree, I don't know, but it was right there. There was a visual representation of how listening to music can affect pain.   [0:16:43] PF: I think people would be just absolutely amazed to find out how many different areas it affects. I think we all maybe have our own interests. I used to write about heart disease. I know some things about how music affects hearts. But with your book, it's almost like there is nothing that music doesn't affect.   [0:17:03] RF: It's kind of remarkable, but I can only – the thing that – I had a hard time understanding it when I first was exposed to all of this, even as a musician, but it was evolution that really gave me the way in to understanding why it is so powerful.   [0:17:18] PF: So, what would you consider music's best kept secret to be?   [0:17:23] RF: Well, those are definitely some things. But when you think about what's in the future, for instance, there is a 40 hertz vibration study at MIT that is showing with both light and sound that a very specific speed of wave can clean up plaques in the brain. So, imagine you'd go to CBS someday and step into a booth and practice hygiene for your brain. You could also embed that in music because it's not a very attractive sound, the 40 Hertz, which a composer at or MIT did, I performed this piece. Again, you could go to a concert hall, and come out, and be that much kind of fresher, cognitively. So, there are some amazing things in the future, I think.   [0:18:07] PF: I love that. As people listen, they're like, "Well, music can do all these amazing things for us, but how do we start?" We see how scientists can do it. We see what researchers are doing. How does an everyday person who's listening to this, how can they start using that power of music?   [0:18:21] RF: I would say, we do it already, we all use it. We use it to work out, we use it – we kind of use it as a tool to help us do something. For instance, when I walk on flat, I don't enjoy it. I like hiking in hills, but I don't care for walking on flat as much. So, I have trouble keeping my tempo up. But if you audiate, which is a musical term, if you imagine a song with a brisk tempo, and beat like This Land is your Land, you'll keep your pace, and you don't even have to play it out loud. So, that's useful because I can still talk to people and kind of have that in the background in my head. Then, the other thing is definitely for anxiety. I highly recommend that people use music for anxiety and depression. So, Dr. Vivek Murthy, our Surgeon General talks about this now. Music is really powerful for depression, and we have natural opioids in the brain that can be released with this. There's no question that it's beneficial. Now, here's the trick. It's all taste-based. It's what you like, what speaks to you. I can't tell you, "Here's a playlist with 10 pieces. They might work, but you might find something better." So, that's something that's always interesting to explain, because people assume, because it's me, it's classical music, but it's not. It's really individual.   [0:19:38] PF: I remember attending a brain health seminar in Cincinnati several years ago, and they had been working with brain injury, and there was a teenager who was in there with a bunch of non-teenagers, and he only wanted to listen to heavy metal. They're like, "That's going to fry his brain." So, they finally were like, "Let's try it." That's what he responded to. He had a TBI, and he responded well to heavy metal music.   [0:20:04] RF: I had a music therapist, actually, tell me in Atlanta who works with veterans that when she wants to calm down, she listens to Metallica. So, the whole room just went, "What?"   [0:20:15] PF: Enter Sandman, okay.   [0:20:18] RF: Right. Yes. So, yes, there's no question about that individuality. There's a beautiful chapter by a music therapist named, Tom Sweitzer, who has a kid come in who is really almost becoming a danger to himself and the people around him. His way in was heavy metal. This kid has stayed with him and continued all his therapy. But this is a really creative therapist who's built the largest, I would say, private music therapy organization in the country. It's in Middleburg, Virginia. He serves the whole community. So, that's a picture that shows what can happen.   [0:20:52] PF: It has so many blessings for us. It has so much hope for us. We're going to tell our listeners how they can find this book and how they can find your Music and Mind Live series. But as I let you go, what is your biggest hope for this book? What do you want people to get from it, and what do you hope it does to be part of the language about how we view music in mind?   [0:21:13] RF: Well, I hope people share it. I mean, I hope – it would be a great birthday or holiday gift for any music lover in your family or arts lover. Frankly, my whole purpose for doing this is because I am passionate about the work. It has affected me tremendously. It's not my field, it's not what I do, but I've become sort of the chief advocate. I love the people that I meet through the world, the scientists, and the researchers, and the therapists, and the whole ecosystem. I will say, it is growing very quickly.   [0:21:46] PF: Well, that is fantastic news for us, because we need it, I'd say, more now than ever.   [0:21:51] RF: No question, no question.   [0:21:53] PF: Well, I so appreciate the work you're doing. I appreciate your time with me today. Again, I really look forward to sharing this with our listeners.   [0:22:01] RF: Thank you, Paula. Wonderful interview. Thank you so much. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:22:07] PF: That was Renee Fleming, talking about how music and the arts can improve our physical and mental wellbeing. If you'd like to learn more about her book, Music and Mind: Harnessing the Arts for Wellness, follow her on social media, discover her music, or access her online resources, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of On a Positive Note and look forward to joining you again next time. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Mindful Flower Arranging With Talia Boone [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 477 of Live Happy Now. We've all heard the advice to stop and smell the roses, but this week's guest also wants us to take a moment to arrange them. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm joined by Talia Boone, a social entrepreneur whose work has centered around human and civil rights issues. As you're about to learn, she discovered flower arranging as a form of meditation and self-care. In the height of the pandemic, she launched Postal Petals to help others relieve the anxiety they were feeling. Today, her company's mindful approach to flower arranging is being used by companies, individuals, and community groups who are discovering just how life changing her workshops can be. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW]   [0:00:48] PF: Talia, thank you for joining me on Live Happy Now. [0:00:51] TB: Yes, absolutely. Paula, thank you so much for having me. [0:00:54] PF: You are doing something that is truly different. As soon as I read about it, I was just like, oh my gosh, I can't believe, it had never crossed my mind before. We talked so much about the benefits of nature here at Live Happy Now, and you are using floral arranging as a form of healing. So, I wanted to know, you've got a very interesting story. Can you tell us when you first realized that that could affect your mental health? [0:01:21] TB: Yes. So, the interesting story came to me very unexpected way. So, I have a really good friend, and she and I, whenever we get together, we're really intentional about doing things that we've not done before, always trying some new activity, never like, "Oh, let's go to lunch, or let's go to dinner." That's boring. Always, let's do something different. For one of our friend hangs, she actually suggested that we try flower arranging. I was like, "Cool, I haven't done that before. Let's do it." I liked it, not just because I was really proud of what I've made, but just something about the experience I just enjoyed in a different way that I had other activities. I ended up doing it again, I thought – because I live here in LA, we had the second biggest flower market in the world. I just was like, I'm just going to go down to the flower market, and grab some flowers, and come home, and arrange them, and just kind of see what happens. I went home, and I arranged them, love the flowers again, did it again, did it again. I just liked the way it felt. What I started realizing is that, I would go down to the flower market, just pick whatever feel good to me. I never knew the names of anything, except for the basic like roses, and calla lilies, and things like that. But I just would go down and just pick whatever felt good, whatever colors felt good, whatever shapes really spoke to me. Then, I would go home, and pour a cup of tea, and I would just arrange, and I would just feel like all of the worries of the day, the week, the anxiety, the stress would just dissipate while I arranged flowers. Even the process of just like prepping them, and pulling the stems off, and the thorns, all of those things, I just found it really, really therapeutic. Without really having the language for to call it that then, it became my go-to form of self-care. So that, you know, fast forward a couple of years later, whenever I feel stressed, that's what I would do. I would instinctively go to the flowers. So, fast forward to the very early days of the pandemic, I was starting to get very stressed out as they kind of – as two weeks went to four weeks, went to six weeks, and then it just looked like an endless amount of time that was going to kind of consume us in the home. I started to get really nervous, as I'm sure most of us did, with the uncertainty of what it meant for ourselves, our livelihoods, our families, all of those things. My therapist, we've kind of we're trying all these different things to see how I could kind of calm myself down. I'm very much a person that's into what I call lifestyle medicine. I believe diet and exercise, the right kind of food, the right kind of serving your body in the way that it actually needs it natively is what I kind of will always gear towards. I'm very, very cautious about medications and things like that. So, those kinds of things weren't options for me, and she didn't really recommend them, but that's not a route that I wanted to go. I know that prescriptions for medicines that calm your nerves were at an all-time high during the pandemic. [0:04:11] PF: Pharmacists are banking, right?   [0:04:12] TB: Absolutely. She actually said to me, she's like, "You know, Talia, I haven't heard you talk about arranging flowers in a few months. Why don't you try that and see if that helps you feel better." That ultimately started the journey for what is now Postal Petals. So, that's how I got the love of flowers, how I understood the kind of healing benefits. But then, once she suggested that I arranged them as a way for me to deal with what I was going through in the pandemic, that ultimately ended up being the one suggestion that led to starting Postal Petals. Because when I started looking for a company that could ship me fresh cut flowers to the house for me to arrange, I just couldn't find it. There were so many options to ship me ready-to-use arrangements, but there was nothing that allowed me to arrange them myself. That journey is ultimately what led me to recognize that there was a hole in the market, being that, what I was looking for did not exist. I just felt like, if I was looking for this, there's got to be other people who are as well. Then, I just saw an opportunity to enter into the flower industry. It was a time when events weren't happening, weddings weren't happening, people were hoarding toilet paper. They were definitely not buying flowers at the grocery store. Nobody was really thinking about flowers in that way. So, I took a chance, and decided I'm going to start this company, and we're almost four years later and Postal Petals is the best thing that could have happened to me professionally. I'm in love with this company, I'm so honored, privileged to have been chosen to build and run this company. [0:05:44] PF: That's amazing. For novices, what are we talking about when we talk about flower arranging? Because I'll be honest, the only flower engine I do is take it from the paper around it and put it in a vase. That's about as fancy as I get. So, what does flower arranging really entail? [0:06:03] TB: You know what it entails? It entails patience, it entails you allowing for the time to do it, it entails you allowing yourself to express yourself creatively. So, we are quite conditioned as a culture, particularly here in America. I think in other cultures, I know that they do a lot of flower arranging, and in Japanese, historically in Japanese culture, they arrange flowers specifically as a form of self-care, and meditation, and mindfulness. So, we're just kind of catching up to where flowers had been for many for quite some time. But, the actual act of flower arranging is, realizing that flowers don't always come as perfect as they come in these ready-to-use arrangements. You have to realize when those flowers show up to your florist, they've got leaves all over them, they've probably got bugs crawling in, and there's probably petals that are wilting and dying. So, it entails you being willing to work with those flowers in the same way your florist would, to kind of strip through all of the muck, or all of the waste to really hone in on the beauty. Then, once you hone in on the beauty, really put attention into thinking about where you want to place each stem. So, it's this idea of slowing down to get through that process. So many of us, it's so easy to your point, Paula, around just grabbing a bouquet from the grocery store, running some water in a vase, and plopping it into a vase. But when you stop, and you spread that bouquet out, and you decide that you're going to rearrange it. Now, you see, "Oh, there's leaves in here, let me pull those leaves off the water, off the stamp so that they don't poison the water. Let me adjust the height a little bit, because I want it to look a little bit more full. I think this petal, this bloom would look better over here next to this bloom." So, it's just that process of prepping the flowers, which is trimming them, removing leaves, removing thorns, removing what we call guard petals. But then also, kind of thinking through stem by stem where do those flowers best show up in the arrangement that would bring you the most joy. Then, really take your time to go through that process. I think once you kind of lose yourself in that experience, when you come out of it on the other side, experiencing a piece that I just can't even explain it. I think it's very similar to the way that people talk about gardening, and how they find it just so therapeutic. Most people who haven't done it would say like, "Why do I want to get my hands in the dirt, and do this, and do that? I don't want to do that. I could just buy my vegetables at the store. I could just have a florist deliver my flowers." But there's something about engaging with nature, whether it's in the dirt of a garden, or flower stems, as you're arranging. There's something about that process that is just so incredibly calming and therapeutic. [0:08:45] PF: This seems like such a mindful activity. You can't really be looking at each one, and deciding what you're going to do with it, and be thinking about, I've got to go pick up the kids from school, and I need to stop at the grocery store, and all these other things, you really have to focus. Is that a big part of the therapy side of it? [0:09:03] TB: Yes, it is, because it really forces you to just be present on what you're doing. It's interesting, because we offer our boxes as, you can get them on demand, but we encourage people to, as we say, kind of schedule and regulate self-care as a part of your routine. So, we do subscriptions, where you can get them every week, every other week, or once a month. The reason I say, kind of center your wellness, kind of schedule your wellness is because, when those flowers show up, you have to get them out of the box right away. So, whatever other things you're stressing about, whatever other things are pulling on your time or your attention, you're going to have to make time to pull those flowers out of the box, get them in some water, get them hydrated, and then go through that experience of arranging them. So often, we're in this hustle and grind culture, where we all are wanting to multitask, and do so many different things at the same time. Whereas, it really does in this way force you to pay attention, to be present, to not allow your attention to be diverted. Because if you're looking at work emails, and trying to arrange flowers at the same time, chances are, it's not going to turn out as beautiful as you want to. You're going to cut something too short; you're going to – there's something's going to happen. So, it's just an opportunity for you to design. It's also one of those things, I find that even people who are reluctant to try it, once they start their focus, they're dialed in. One of the things I love most about workshops is that, people come in all excited, and with all this energy, and they think it's going to be like a party. Once they start arranging, the noise dies down so much, because people just – they zone out, they just really, really get into it. It's a similar feeling to me. Result is different, and the experience and the textile is a little bit different. But kind of like when you're fixing puzzles, which is relaxing. You can be doing other things while you're fixing a puzzle, but it's going to take you a lot longer, because you're not going to be paying attention to what goes where and what makes sense. Flower arrangements really are a puzzle, they're your puzzle. It's for you to decide how you want them to turn out, but you have to give them the attention they deserve in order to know exactly where you want them to go. So that when you're done, and you twirl it around, you're going to be like, "Wow, I've made that, that's amazing." You definitely want to be present for that. Otherwise, the other side of that experience, if you're not present, is you're going to be, the whole week that you have them up, you're going to be noticing all the things that you would have changed if you would have been paying attention. [0:11:29] PF: So, I think you brought up to really great points without maybe even realizing it. So, when someone knows they're going to get these flowers. So now, you have this anticipatory savoring where it's like, they're really looking forward to this experience. Then, you have the experience itself, which we've talked about. Then, you have that, as you said, that week afterwards, where you're looking at these flowers. I think that probably brings back a lot of wonderful feelings, calming emotions, just by looking at that. [0:11:58] TB: You're absolutely right. I thank you for noting that point, Paula, because that's exactly it. We talked about or starting to talk more and more about self-care, we're offering them something that's really, at the end of it, they have this really beautiful reminder of that experience. You want to repeat that, because it just feels so good. There's nothing about flower arranging that you come out of, and you're like, "That was terrible. I'll never do that again." [0:12:23] PF: That flower bit me. [0:12:24] TB: Yes, they're so beautiful, like you absolutely love them. Then, also too, throughout the week, you have an opportunity to continue to engage with them. You want to keep trimming them and changing the water to extend their vase life. If one flower starting to fail, you pull that guy out. Sometimes, I even will, midweek, I'll take the whole arrangement out, lay it out, and design it again. Because sometimes, you just need a little bit of a, "Oh, I did a little bit of a huzzah. Let me give me myself a quick 15 minutes and I'll redesign this." It starts to really change the way that you think about flowers. Instinctively, even now, people when they see flowers, it brings a smile to their face that makes them happy. But when you're also able to add to it, that you were able to release anxiety or release stress, that kind of really changes even the way that you feel when you even see flowers. Because now, you've attached this really calming experience to it. Now, you've attached this kind of this mindful, and therapeutic experience to it. It really goes to elevate the relationship that we have with flowers. I think it's a missed opportunity when we allow florists to have all the fun, but we don't take on that experience ourselves. [SPONSOR MESSAGE] [0:13:37] PF: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Most of us are feeling a lot of stress these days, and one thing that can add to that stress is comparing ourselves to others on social media. It's so easy to start feeling like your life doesn't measure up. But with help from therapy, you can learn to focus on what you want, instead of what others are doing. Therapy can improve your coping skills and change the way you look at your world. BetterHelp is a great place to start. All you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire and you'll get matched with a licensed therapist. You can always change therapists at any time at no extra charge to make sure you get a therapist who's right for you. It's completely online, so it's flexible, convenient, and works with your schedule. Stop comparing and start focusing with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/livehappy today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/livehappy. We'll be right back with the show, but now, Casey Johnson, Live Happy marketing manager and cat owner extraordinaire is back to talk more about her adventures with PrettyLitter.   [0:14:46] TB: Paula, as you know, I'm a proud cat mom of three adorable cats. But, let's be honest, no matter how cuddly they are, those litter box odors are not so cute. Before PrettyLitter, it felt like no matter how much I scooped, our place always smelled like a litter box. With PrettyLitter, I found a product that is the perfect blend of beauty and functionality. That pretty crystal masks the smell at the litter boxes, and now, you don't even know I have three cats until they sit on your lap. So, to all the other dedicated cat parents out there, I highly recommend trying PrettyLitter. [0:15:17] PF: We're going to make it easier for them to try. They can go to prettylitter.com/livehappy and use the code LIVE HAPPY to save 20% on their first order and get a free cat toy. That's prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVE HAPPY to save 20% and get a free cat toy. Again, prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVE HAPPY. [INTERVIEW CONTINUES]   [0:15:39] PF: You have turned Postal Petals into an entire movement. So, if someone's listening to this, they might think, "Oh, she sells flowers." It's like, "No, that's not what's going on here." You are doing community workshops; you even do online workshops. Talk about the workshops that you offer, and kind of what you see happen through the course of these workshops. [0:15:59] TB: Yes. So, thank you for asking that. We absolutely are not just flowers. I always say flowers are their tool. We are here to help introduce people to an attainable form of self-care, and mindfulness, and mental wellness. So, we do a series of free community wellness events where we incorporate movement, meditation, and then mindfulness with the flower arranging. So typically, it'll be maybe it's hiking, maybe it's walking, or like a restorative yoga session, followed by a breathwork session, or a guided, or sound bath meditation. Then, we take that really, once the body's already in a calm state, your mind has already kind of started to settle, we bring that energy right into a truly peaceful floral design workshop. We kind of guide people through, here's the flowers, and they walk into the space with the flowers, and it's just flowers everywhere. They can pick whichever flowers they want, and they go back to their stations, and we guide them, in a really kind way through the design process. We're really careful around not telling people where to put each stem. But instead, giving them tricks and tips like, "Cut the stems at a 45-degree angle, make sure you don't allow any leaves to fall below the waterline, because it'll poison your flowers. Be conscious of where you cut based on where you want the blooms to fall on the arrangement," things like that. The most rewarding thing after we do the free community wellness events, and then some of the corporate stuff that we do as well, is really the way that people without fail will comment about how unexpectedly good they feel after having gone through the experience. Because most people will say, I never thought about flowers in this way. I loved flowers. I've always loved flowers, but I've never, I've never experienced flowers in a way that I'm leaving feeling so relaxed, and feeling so centered, and feeling so calm, and feeling like I've addressed, I paid attention to my mindfulness today. That's really what we appreciate most. Then, even when we do our corporate workshops, or our workshops with – we do that private, we call them Petal Riot for design workshops. But we'll bring them in, and they'll say like, "Oh, there's going to be men in there, are men going to want to do this? We have come to find out that the men love it. They absolutely love it.   [0:18:11] PF: That's amazing.   [0:18:13] TB: Yes, the men love it. Many times, they are far better designers than they ever thought they were. I have been wowed so many times by the arrangements that some of our male workshop attendees have put together. They sometimes are dragged, kicking, and screaming to that workshop. But by the end of it, they're among the best, and typically, at the top of the class, it's really interesting. It's funny, because, I'll tell you, Paula, a trend that I was starting to notice when men would be in the workshops, whether they were the virtual workshops or the in-person workshops, is that they would naturally become very competitive. They would always want to make their arrangement better than everyone else. I would see this over, and over, and over again. I was thinking like, geez, I don't understand what that is. I really want this to be relaxing. I don't want it to feel like a competition. I was talking to a male friend of mine, and he was saying, he's like, "Talia, I think what you're not realizing is that for most men, competition is self-care."   [0:19:08] PF: That's a great way to look at it.   [0:19:09] TB: Yes, exactly. That's why they love watching games. That's why they love going to sporting events. Because for man, a lot of that is self-care. I never thought about it like that. But it also really helped me to kind of also even understand how to reach men, and how to, really, instead of discouraging the competition, encouraging it for those who need it, because everybody's journey is their own. While competition for me is not self-care, being able to be sensitive to, and to pivot, and adjust on the ways in which we're addressing each person in the class to make sure that we're meeting them where they are. So long as they leave with an experience of feeling exactly the peaceful and mindful experience that we want them to have. That's what we want. So, I say all that to say, it's a different experience for everyone that comes in, but collectively, regardless of the way that they get there through their flower arranging experience. Whether it's through the joy and peace of it all, or the competition of it all, they all leave saying that they never thought in a million years that they would have that kind of experience, or that they would leave feeling as good as they felt after arranging flowers. It really, it's a beautiful thing, and it's my favorite thing of doing workshops. At the end, I'll say, "How was it?" And they're just like, "This was amazing." [0:20:25] PF: How rewarding that must feel. [0:20:27] TB: Really. It really is, because it's, to your point as we were talking around this really being something that hasn't really been done before in the way in which we're doing it. It really is a unique offering, and it's validating every time I get that response. Because sometimes, people who have not had the experience find a hard time understanding why they would want to have the experience. Because we've been so traditionally conditioned to experience flowers as this ready to use product from florists. They just deliver them to your door, maybe you take some pictures, throw them on the ground. Then, you don't really engage with them again, until you're tossing them out into the trash because they died. The whole time you've had them, you've missed all that opportunity to really engage with them, those flowers, and those stems in a really, really meaningful way. So, I get it, why people don't understand it. But it's so rewarding when they do get it because they don't – once they get it, they don't do it just once, they keep coming back for it, and I love that. They're hooked on it like I am, and I love it. [0:21:26] PF: There you go. You did something really interesting and profound with Amazon. I want to hear about this. I was reading about this on your website, and I thought, oh my gosh. I'm not going to say anything more, because I want your words to describe this. [0:21:42] TB: Yes. Oh, God. Paula, thank you for bringing that up. That was actually one of my favorite events, very special to me for a number of reasons. But that event, Amazon had Amazon Studios, put out a film back in 2022, called the TILL movie, which was the Mamie Till-Mobley story about the lynching of her 14-year-old son, Emmett Till in the south, while he was there visiting family. It's a story that growing up in the African-American community, you've always been very much aware of, as well as stories just like it that happened, that have been happening for generations to our ancestors, men and women in our family who have come before us. When that film came up, and they were releasing it, they reached out, and they said, "Hey, we're doing a series of screenings and talks about, we want to have you there." This particular screening that we did was a screening for black mothers. It was a screening of the project, and they never meant to have like a panel discussion about that film, and what it brought up for them being mothers, and the way that they protect their children in general, but their sons, their black sons growing up in this country, in particular. When they came to me, I just said to them, the themes in this film, in other films like it, incredibly traumatic for us in our community. These bring up very negative feelings, very real vulnerabilities, and threats to our livelihoods, even today. So, I said to them, "I would love to work with you all, but I want to be really careful about the way that we engage in this type of space. Since we know that these things can be incredibly traumatic to our community, I want to make sure that we don't send them out into the world with that trauma from the screening and from the conversation that we can instead make sure that we're really intentional about the ways in which we can start to relieve some of that pressure before we leave." So, the idea that we came up with was to do one of our make and take bloom bars, after the screening and after the panel discussion. So, what happened was, the ladies went in, they did the screening, they had their panel discussion, and we were in a separate room in the back. You could kind of see, yes, they were coming out of that room, the weight of the film on them. But then, when they saw the flowers, and they got closer, and start to realize that the flowers were for them, you could visibly see the weight of the film starting to break away. As they were gathering up, and starting to pick the flowers that they wanted in their arrangements, and we started kind of fixing them up and wrapping them. Then, they started to converse with each other about the flowers that they were creating, and the flowers they were choosing, the arrangements that they were creating, it completely changed the spirit and the energy in the room, where the ladies were able to use the flowers as a way to decompress, and to kind of level set kind of their energies, and the spirit of kind of how they were feeling coming out of it. It just completely changed it, where they were talking about the flowers, and they were talking about the beauty of the flowers. As they were able to continue to have some of the conversation about the film, their perspective was very much shifted based on the fact that they were able to look at it from a different way, because their energy had been shifted. Then, they took those flowers, and we had a whole portrait studio set up for them. So, we were able to kind of memorialize the moment with those flowers, and with those women in the portrait studio, and to think that they were able to go from watching that screening, and really taking in those really heavy, heavy messages at the film. To ending with being given flowers, and smiling in a portrait studio was just really beautiful to see. Also, just a true example of the absolute healing powers of flowers. In real time, we were able to see how these women went from carrying the weight of this movie and their lived experience relating to the movie. And seeing the flowers being able to decompress that, and allow them to leave feeling less heavy than the film. [0:25:45] PF: As I read about that, I was thinking how it's really helping heal a traumatic experience for them. So then, I wonder, I know you have so much research on your website. I love the fact that you just have research that says, "Hey, it's not just me." There's science behind this that shows how good this is for us. But what do you see being able to do in terms of helping people work through trauma? [0:26:09] TB: Again, thank you for asking that. That's another thing that we're actively doing now, is beginning to partner with licensed mental health practitioners to start to develop floral healing curriculums that speak really specifically to various ailments. Mental and emotional health ailments that people may be going through. So, we're now really thinking about in addition to what – as our curriculum start to be formalized, really very intentionally beginning to partner with the social institutions that sit at the centerpieces of our communities. Thinking about schools, and community organizations, even rehab facilities, correctional facilities, aging, and caregiving facilities. Seeing how we can begin to take our flowers into those spaces and help with things like self-esteem, emotional intelligence, mindfulness. When you're thinking through rehab, and things like that. But even, people who are in facilities where they're having to find more healthy ways to express themselves, as opposed to coming angry or, or taking on substances, or anything that's not healthy and saying, "Well, let's put that energy into the flowers, and really being able to have curriculum that's very intentionally crafted to help people use the flowers in that way. The way that I love to describe this is, we are really giving people an attainable way to achieve, to reach for their mental, and emotional wellness. For some, they require that to be done in concert with professionals, in concert with medications, just kind of depending on what their unique condition is. But for many people, just the act of tending to your emotional and mental wellness, tending to acknowledging the anxiety that you're feeling, acknowledging the stress that you're feeling, and giving yourself 30 minutes to an hour each week or every other week. Just to kind of put that energy into the process of arranging flowers works wonders for your total emotional health. [0:28:04] PF: That's incredible. I'm so excited to see where this goes, because I know you've been at it for a while. But I also realized this is just really the beginning of what it can accomplish, and like I said, I hope you'll stay in touch. I hope we can watch and see it grow because you're doing a lot of amazing things. [0:28:20] TB: Thank you so much, Paula. I really, really appreciate that. Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:28:28] PF: That was Talia Boone, talking about how mindful flower arranging can relieve anxiety and improve our wellbeing. If you'd like to learn more about Talia, follow her on social media or check out her Postal Petals workshops. Just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every week, we'll drop a little bit of joy into your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.   [END]