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Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Create a Healthy Relationship with Social Media With Giselle Ugarte [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 470 of Live Happy Now. As we wrap up Mental Health Awareness Month, it's a great time to talk about something that many experts believe is contributing to the problem. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and this week I'm joined by coach, speaker, and influencer, Giselle Ugarte, who helps people learn how to build their confidence, reframe their relationship with social media, and show up more authentically at work and in their personal lives. Giselle has seen firsthand how learning to use social media more mindfully can help deepen relationships and improve self-confidence, and she's here to tell us how we can make the most of those social media moments. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:46] PF: Giselle, welcome to Live Happy Now. [0:00:49] GU: Hello. I'm so happy to be here. [0:00:51] PF: Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited to talk to you. We want to talk about mental health and social media, and that is a huge topic. We could talk all month about it. [0:00:59] GU: No kidding. That’s my department. [0:01:00] PF: Oh, my gosh. [0:01:01] GU: I'm glad to be here to talk about it. [0:01:03] PF: Yeah. So, to start the conversation, I really wanted to talk about how oftentimes, when we have this discussion about social media and mental health, we're talking about younger users. It's not just kids that it's affecting, it's affecting older adults as well, right? [0:01:18] GU: It's affecting all of us, honestly, because even if it isn't social media, you know, social media is a reflection of the way that we use technology, and even the way that we have notifications running so much of our lives. Where we worry so much about today's kids, the reality is, is that the kids are also reflecting the habits and also, the insecurities of adults. We're hearing a lot of commentary right now about how this is the most anxious generation, I would also then challenge to take a look at some of our older generations as well in the ways in which we might be addicted to work, or perhaps, validation, or people pleasing. I really just think that social media is a mirror, or perhaps, amplification of some of what actually and already has been happening for decades long before social media existed. The difference is that now we can carry it in our pockets and take it home with us even when we are all alone. There are some benefits of that too, because there's also the side of, well, but wait a minute, with social media, we never actually have to be alone. It's actually removing a lot of stigmas and we talk about Mental Health Awareness Month. I know that for me personally, someone who has dealt with anxiety and spells of deep depression and even PTSD, I've changed my relationship with alcohol over time. For me, social media has actually been where I've gone to for conversation, for confidence as I learned to embrace my body and what healthy looks like to me. Social media has been where I've been able to create conversations with people who I perhaps never would have met in real life. Or maybe it was chit chat at a party, but we started following each other and realized that we were both on this same path of wanting to better ourselves. Social media was where we were able to find that community. I'm really excited to go into this conversation and explore different angles. Most importantly, to discover where we are in control and how we can better have a better relationship with social media every day, no matter how old you are. [0:03:18] PF: Right. I think some of the people that have the healthiest relationship with it are the elderly. I have an aunt who's 87, and she uses Facebook. Now, granted, she's not what I would call tech savvy. But if it weren't for Facebook, then we would not be in touch. She's not someone that's going to pick up a phone. We're not going to be in touch. And we have a very large extended family. Because of that, she doesn't have children of her own, but she is in touch with all her nieces and nephews and reach out. She's going through a lot of health challenges right now. She is getting the support that she simply could not have if it weren't for social media. [0:03:55] GU: I like to say that if you're not taking your online relationships offline, then you're seriously missing out. Absolutely, it is one of those things where we're able to keep in touch with people who, maybe we wouldn't otherwise. I would also say, and that brings up a really awesome point too, is that sometimes I have friends who will say, “Well, if I didn't have social media, then my family would never see my kids, or they'd never keep in touch with us.” To which I go, “Wait, hold on a second. Have we now gotten to a point to where social media is the only way that you're keeping in touch with your family, versus now we have things like group text and FaceTime where we actually need to take that relationship to another level?” [0:04:39] PF: So, are you indicating this might be a problem? [0:04:42] GU: Well, no. I'm not. But we all have to really take a look at our online habits and why do we do the things that we do. You mentioned you have this friend who had health challenges. How awesome how, for example, you have people who might be having health challenges, or God forbid, they go through something really tragic, they can use social media as a way to update a lot of people that otherwise, energetically, they might not be able to, or physically able to do so. Or you're able to maybe donate to someone who is seriously in need and going through something really, really difficult and you're able to have that support, maybe even from people who you haven't talked to in a really long time. With every ounce of negative, there's positive with positive, there are more ways to do good and in person, but I simply want people to be more intentional about all of their habits online and especially off. [0:05:33] PF: I love the positive things that can come out of it. I love seeing the fundraisers that take place and just the sense of community that you can create when you are intentional about it. We know that it's also doing a lot of things to knock people's self-confidence. That's something that you've addressed very well. I wondered if you could talk a little bit about what kind of impact it can have on your self-confidence. [0:05:57] GU: Absolutely. Well, I want to go back even 10 or 20 years ago. We can go back even further than that. I know that right now, we're getting a lot of that conversation around the millennials and then Gen Xers who are saying that social media is horrible for confidence. To that, I say, hold on a second. Let's go back to a time when our only media was TV and magazines. There was one standard of beauty. She was one color and one size. She was usually a size zero, or double zero and her legs were a million miles long. Maybe you would see her in that magazine and perhaps, that's what she looked like naturally, or maybe they did start to doctor some of those images. You wouldn't even necessarily know, because the FTC was not what it is today. Now you log into social media, you can see beauty in every single shape and color and size and age and level of success in a way that we never have been before. That's where I want to challenge anyone who says, “Hold on. Social media is killing my confidence,” to go, what are you looking at? Because now, you have choices. Before, we didn't have choices. We only had a certain amount of channels and whatever magazines that you were subscribed to. You get to decide who you follow. Now our feeds are a direct reflection of us. If what you're seeing is making you feel bad about yourself for any way, then you really need to either get your head right, or get your feed right. Typically, I then hear the argument, “Oh, but comparison is the thief of joy.” Comparison is only the thief of joy when you're coming at it from a place of lack, when you yourself are unhappy. That's where I really want to challenge you. Again, get your head right, get your feed right. Start your day rooted and gratitude with what you are thankful for, with what you are proud of, with ways that you do see yourself as beautiful. Because otherwise, yeah, everything you see, you're going to project your insecurities on that. I want you to follow people who look exactly like you. I want you to follow people who look nothing like you. I want you to follow people who give you aspirational and inspirational goals and motivate you without making you feel less than. If everything is making you feel less than, then maybe it is time to perhaps pause, or close the apps, or unfollow, or mute, or maybe even block for a moment because that does happen. But the conversation is so much bigger than just a social media feed. It's also, when you're dropping the kids off at school and you're seeing all of the other parents around you. It's also, when you're opening up your phone and you don't like what you see, or you're looking in the mirror and you don't like what you see. To which I say, it's time to own it or change it. Own it. Or if you don't like what you see, then change it. Even if you decide to change it, you still have to own it in some way, shape, or form. What I instead see people have happened is they end up turning on filters, for example, or multiple filters, for example, and they say, “Oh. Well, I'm just putting makeup on with this filter. Oh, I'm just giving myself some a tan.” Well, hold on a second. Why does that filter make your face look like a totally different shape? Why is it putting somebody else's eyes on top of your eyes? Why have you just aged 20 years less? Why do your pores not exist? All of a sudden, what you're doing is on your phone, you're creating this image that isn't actually real. It's no wonder that when you look in the mirror, you hate what you see. [0:09:30] PF: Yeah. Can we talk about this a little bit more? Because I recently went through this. I saw a friend. I was just like, “Oh, my God. She looks amazing.” I was talking – we used to live in Dallas, this woman lives in Dallas. I was talking to some other friends in Dallas, I'm like, “She looks so great. What is she doing?” They're like, “Filters, Paula. It's a filter.” I was like, “Oh, man.” What does that do to our psychology and our psyche when we are presenting ourselves one way, but that's not who we really are? How does that affect us? [0:10:03] GU: Absolutely. What it’s doing is it’s telling your brain that you don't think that you're good enough. For me personally, I believe things like makeup and fashion are actually a form of self-expression. Sometimes they can be disguises and armor, and that's fine, but the difference between a filter and say, filler, the injectable, is the filler goes with you, the filter does not. [0:10:27] PF: Right. [0:10:28] GU: My conversation and my expertise is purely around the use of technology and social media. The conversation around plastic surgery and makeup, that's something different entirely. Again, the difference is the filler will go with you. The filter does not. When you then look in the mirror at night, or when you look in somebody else's camera, or when your child takes a photo of you and you don't like what you see, a lot of that is because what you are lying to yourself doing. What I find to be so interesting is that a lot of my clients, I have a rule, no filters. No filters on Zoom. No filters on social media. To remove that filter. What's so interesting is how every single person, every single time, well, first of all, there's the resistance, which if it's not that deep, Giselle, if it's not that serious, Giselle, then why is it so hard for you to do? Why is it so hard? Once they actually remove it, what's so wild is the way that they begin to realize other ways that they've been creating filters in their life. Because you might even be thinking, “Well, Giselle, I don't even use filter,” which congratulations, you are miles and light years ahead in the confidence game. Where might you be hiding, or where might you perhaps be creating that highlight reel? Because I believe that there is this highlight reel of perfection that we are seeing, but oftentimes, the ones who are only seeing the highlight reel, you're also the one who's creating it, too. I believe that your highlight reel is actually comprised of the highs and the lows of the in-between moments. You can have your best day and your worst day on the same day. It's so important that we recognize that what we're seeing is just a fraction of someone's life. I hate when people say, social media is fake. Are there people online who are fake? Yes. Are there people who are in real life fake? Also, yes. The question is, is it actually fake, or is it just that you are creating a judgment on a single second of time? In that single second of time, it's possible that that family was happy and smiling and in the next second, it's possible that they were fighting. We've all had those days and those vacations where you were at screaming each other the whole time. Does that mean that you don't love each other? No. If somebody posts a picture of their happy family and then announces the next week that they're getting a divorce, does that mean that they were being fake? Or was she just doing her best on that particular day? You can have your best day and your worst day on the same day. That's part of the mental health acceptance that I want people to understand is that no, social media isn't fake. I actually think we were talking about, what does your mind tell yourself? When we say things like that, we're actually canceling ourselves out for achieving that thing ourselves. We're believing that, “Oh, that type of happiness can't be achieved. Oh, that type of family can't be achieved. Oh, that type of success can't be achieved,” because of the ways that we're knocking it from someone else, or we're trying to chip it away somehow. I wouldn't even realize the ways in which that too is also her bringing out confidence by saying, “Oh, you don't deserve that. Oh, you'll never have that.” Versus, “You know what? Good for her. You know what? Good for him.” [MESSAGE] [0:13:43] PF: We'll be right back with Giselle Ugarte. But right now, let's take a quick break to talk about clothing from Franne Golde. If you're hitting the road this summer, you'll want to check out this amazing line of wrinkle-free staples that you can dress up or down depending on the occasion. They're the perfect traveling companion, because they're flattering, comfortable, and were created by a Grammy-winning musician who knows the importance of looking good on the road. See for yourself at frannegolde.com/podcast and you can get 20% off your first order of $75 or more when you use the code HAPPY. That's F-R-A-N-N-E-G-O-L-D-E.com/podcast for 20% off your order of $75 or more with the code HAPPY. Now, let's get back to my talk with Giselle to learn more about how we can use social media more intentionally to improve our mental health. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [0:14:39] PF: If you start creating a practice where you do that, or you intentionally tell yourself, “I'm going to congratulate in my head, each person who celebrates something on Facebook.” Will that make a difference? Or you're saying like, you're cheering them on, whereas before, you might have been sitting there judging a little bit. [0:14:58] GU: I honestly believe it does, and I love how you said practice. Or maybe you didn't say it, but I heard it. But we do have to practice being happy for other people. I do believe that when we do that, it will come back in a form of gratitude for ourselves. It might feel sweet irony, a little fake and uncomfortable when you're forcing yourself to do that, but you're doing it for the goodness of your mind and perhaps, to melt away at your cold heart. It's gotten bitter over the years. Because let's just think about that for a moment. If you can't be happy for someone on their happiest day, whether it's their wedding, or their kid’s graduation, or they just got a new job, or they just bought a new house, or they moved, and your first instinct is, “Oh, must be nice. Oh, well, that's great that her husband got that or, oh, well, yeah, it must be easy for her to lose the weight.” Let's think about, hold on, where is that coming from? Where is the projected self-loathing frankly coming from? Where you decided to rule yourself out from that, or you became so bitter and nasty? We wouldn't want someone to be like that towards us on our day. Why are we doing that to them? Yes. Rather than just liking or continuing to scroll, something that I have also noticed with my clients is I always give them an assignment to turn passive scrolling into an actively engaged activity. Again, whenever we're scrolling, sometimes we're scrolling to numb, or we're scrolling because we want to be numb. We're just scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, not even paying attention, no concept of time. Maybe every now and then, we'll hit a like, or we'll double tap. I will give my clients the assignment of every time you open up the refrigerator, that is your social media, I want you to engage. If you see something, maybe it's someone you know, maybe they just accomplished something, or maybe they did something really difficult, or they shared something very vulnerable, rather than just to double tap something, write something, comment to them. Not just a little emoji, or a heart, but acknowledge it in a meaningful way. “Oh, my gosh, that's so exciting. I know how hard you have been working on that marathon. Oh, my gosh, you finally did it. I remember you talking about this years ago. Now you're finally learning how to ballroom dance. That's so awesome.” One more way that I've noticed my clients who were anxiously sometimes opening up that empty refrigerator that can be social media sometimes, all of a sudden going, “I think I got my fix.” They're not opening it up as often, because they were able to feel as if they did something productive. Whereas before, sometimes we open it up mindlessly hoping for that dopamine hit. Instead, they created their own dopamine hit by finding gratitude and happiness and celebration for someone, or something else. Then they end up putting their phone away. It makes sense if you think about it, don't you think? [0:18:13] PF: I love that. I love it, because we've all had that practice where we're like, just scrolling through there. It's like, there's nothing here. We hit refresh. Hoping better things will show up in our feed. If you think about it, these are people sharing their stories, however genuine or heartfelt they might be at that time. All we're doing is like, “Eh, that's not quite enough to keep me engaged.” Which is pretty crappy, because if they called you and said, “Hey, this happened,” you wouldn't be just like, “Mm. Call me back when you have something better.” [0:18:42] GU: Right. Or you would just ignore them completely from answering the phone. [0:18:47] PF: Right. I love that. What other tips do you have for being more mindful as you use social media, instead of being used by it? [0:18:54] GU: I love that you said that, because it's a phrase that I use very often, which is, is social media running you, or are you running your social media? The number one thing that I tell all of my clients is turn off your notifications, all of them, the likes, the comments, the DMs. The only time that I ever have notifications on for social media is if I'm specifically waiting for a message from someone who maybe doesn't have my phone number. It might be Facebook Marketplace, for example, or it might be my primary inbox on Instagram. It will be temporary. Only when that person really needs to get a hold of me, and they don't have my phone number. Otherwise, everything is turned completely off. When I'm checking my notifications, it's because I'm in control of it. I sometimes even take it a step further from my clients and I say, no email on your phone. No email on your phone, which sounds terrifying for so many people. What that ends up doing is oftentimes, whenever we get that email notification, even if it's from work, all of a sudden, that becomes the most important thing. [0:20:00] PF: Right. [0:20:01] GU: You will interrupt, disrupt whatever conversation, dinner, errand, or other important tasks that you were doing. It ends up actually taking up a lot of time for where you thought it only took five or 15 seconds, it maybe took 15 minutes. Or you ended up having to start that task that you were working on over again, or start that conversation over again. What ends up happening is if you take your email off of your phone, when you do your email at your desk, at your computer, you become more intentional and focused. Then you put your phone on do not disturb with the notifications turned off, and you have that time specifically to respond to whatever requests and clients that you need to get to as many times a day as you need. Hopefully, it's no more than maybe two to four times a day, versus every single 15 minutes of every single hour of every single day. [0:20:47] PF: Yeah. You start feeling yanked around. It's just like, I'm doing this, but then I just get pulled over here. One thing I've started doing is I don't even turn my phone on until after I eat breakfast, which a lot happens from the time I get up until after I eat breakfast. it was very difficult at first, because it's always like, “Okay, what work? What do my clients have? What do I need to do?” To be able to just breathe and say, nothing that that has to be done in the next two hours. It doesn't have to be done before 8.30 AM. Just enjoy life a little bit. [0:21:20] GU: That's absolutely one way to do it and determining what actually needs notifications, what actually needs sounds, what actually needs the flags and then visuals. I mean, some of you just have that default, everything has notification. When was the last time you really took the time to go, “What notifications are turned on? Which ones can I turn off?” Because I am someone who I do check my phone first thing in the morning. For me, it's a healthy experience. I have a healthy relationship with my phone. I want to make sure everyone is good. That doesn't mean that I'm then replying back to everybody. It does give me a sanity to be able to just unlock my phone, is everything good? No one's on fire. No one's in the hospital. Great. Now I can begin. Or I might use that as my inspiration and motivation, because when I do open up my feed, I see people who inspire me. I see things that motivate me, or I have my affirmation or my Bible versus that get me going on that particular day. I am in control of it. It's not in control of me. notifications, that is the biggest one. I even find sometimes that people feel they're going through withdrawals. Where because their phone isn't buzzing constantly, they then are flipping their phone over constantly. [0:22:32] PF: Really? [0:22:33] GU: Yes. That's where we sometimes have to take it a step further and go, okay, well, do we then have to have the phone in a different room? Because if you can't go to the bathroom, or sit in an elevator, or wait in a line without looking at your phone, we might need to check ourselves with where is that coming from? Where it's coming from is typically, validation, need for validation, or it might be an unhealthy relationship that you have with your job, or your boss, or your superiors, or your clients where you have no boundaries, whatsoever. That's also where we run into lack of confidence, because you are then running in this people pleasing loop, where you're constantly seeking the attention of other people, and/or how often have we gotten to the end of the day and it feels like we haven't done anything, because the whole day has been reactive. You're answering the email, answering the phone, answering the client, and never did you prioritize what you needed to do for yourself. That's also where I established a practice of making sure that somewhere in your day, you do have calendared in a phone-free section of time. Also, in your day, you do have calendared in the three most important things that you need to do today. You're three non-negotiables that you need to do today. Because where a lack of confidence also comes from is a lack of productivity, or feeling lazy, or feeling like you amount to nothing, or can't do very much. Even if you are going through a season of burnout, for you, the three most productive things that you might do might be going for a walk, might be taking a nap, might be writing in your journal. That might also be your unplugged moment of meditation. Having time that's carved out specifically and only for you, and not tied to your electronics. Those are little ways that if we keep those commitments to ourselves, we can also build off of confidence and also get rid of some of those addictions that we didn't even realize, “Oh, my gosh. Not only is my social media running me, but I am a slave to it. I didn't even realize.” [0:24:45] PF: Right. [0:24:46] GU: My gosh. If that's you, you can also set screen limits on your phone. That's where you can put time limits for your screen time, or time limits for specific apps. I have a social media screen time limit, so I actually just clump all of my social media apps together in that. Then I'll have the phone say, “Hey, you've hit your limit, or you have 15 minutes left.” Will I extend it? Yeah, I will sometimes. I totally will. At least I'm then becoming more aware versus not having anything at all. Or sometimes I might have it password protected if I need to, or if I'm feeling easily distracted. That's one more way that I'm able to stay focused and still make sure that I have control over my apps. Those are a few ways to get started, but I'm sure we could go on and on and on, but those are at least a couple places to keep going. [0:25:35] PF: That is such great advice. I wondered, you've worked with so many people. What changes have you seen in their wellbeing, in their – I know you're not a mental health professional, but you do see people and deal with their mental health struggles. What changes do you see in their wellbeing and mental health when they start implementing these practices? [0:25:56] GU: Yeah, and that's the thing too, is that I'm a certified high-performance coach. I work on confidence and clarity and time management and energy. At the root of it, it's a lot of those things. I see that people are better at managing their time, because of some of the simple ways in which they end up not having that same relationship with technology. I see confidence soar. Even taking it to the next level, one little productive thing that you can do is change your profile picture to your face and make sure that that face actually looks like you. When you have a face attached to your name, it makes your social media that much more personal. Also, when you can finally embrace what you look like now, versus maybe a headshot that you took before the pandemic, where we've all aged 20 years since. Things like that, it brings that relationship back. When we're engaging more, or even sharing more of ourselves, we see confidence go up, because you feel confident in your voice and that what you have to say matters. I actually see a lot of my clients feeling more comfortable, public speaking, or engaging in conversations, because of how they're active on social media. Setting boundaries. When we set screen time limits, or when we delete emails from our phone, or set our phone to do not disturb, or maybe we let our clients know that, “Hey, I don't take work calls after three,” those are things that we're doing as technological habits. I also see that crossover into other habits and boundaries and relationships as well. It's tiny little micro ways that we don't even realize we're taking our power back, that it starts showing up in every single area of your life. That's why I get really passionate about it, because where we can be so quick to blame social media and us as the victim, the reality is, is that you have a lot more power than you think. As soon as you start to slowly take that power back, it really does snowball into something so bigger, and you start to see the ways in which it's showing up in other areas, too. [0:27:53] PF: I love it. Giselle, that is a great way to wrap this up. You have so much to teach us. We are going to tell our listeners how they can find you. See, continue teaching us and we can keep learning from you. Thank you. Thank you so much for sitting down and talking to me about this today. [0:28:08] GU: Thank you. I love talking about it. My messaging, my inboxes are always open. If you found this conversation helpful, please, I would love to hear from you. Don't be passive. Send me a message, letting me know what you love most about this conversation. [0:28:22] PF: Thank you so much. [0:28:23] GU: Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:28:28] PF: That was Giselle Ugarte, talking about how to use social media to support our mental health. If you'd like to learn more about Giselle and the work she's doing, or follow her on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Live Happy Now, and if you aren't already receiving us every week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think of the show. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Repairing the Mother/Daughter Relationship With Leslie and Lindsey Glass [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 468 of Live Happy Now. Mother's Day might be behind us. But for many moms and daughters, that holiday can be less about celebrating and more about surviving one another. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm joined by co-authors and mother-daughter duo, Leslie and Lindsey Glass, who have just released the book The Mother-Daughter Relationship Makeover. They know all too well how fraught this relationship can be. They're here to talk about what makes this relationship so difficult for some and how you can rebuild that relationship, find a positive pathway to peace, and finally restore the love between you. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:47] PF: Leslie and Lindsey, thank you so much for joining me on Live Happy Now. [00:00:51] LESLIE GLASS: Oh, we're delighted to be here. [00:00:54] LINDSEY GLASS: Yes, good to meet you. [00:00:55] PF: I want to start with the big question, and that is the one most of us have, and that is why is the mother-daughter relationship so challenging. [00:01:04] LINDSEY GLASS: I'm going to start because I – [00:01:05] PF: Let the daughter start. [00:01:09] LINDSEY GLASS: I think there are a lot of reasons, and I will certainly let Leslie jump in. One of the things that I think is the biggest factor is that often moms feel that daughters are reflective of them. If daughter isn't dressing right, if she isn't acting right, if she's doing things that are embarrassing, that is a reflection that maybe mom didn't raise her right. I also think in a situation like ours, I look just like her. My mom was perfectly dressed at all times and quaffed, and that was not my style. She likes to call me, what a street rat, which is very kind. But it was the eighties and the nineties. It was grunge. It was hip-hop. I did not follow her style. I did not follow her interests. She cooked. She knitted. She planted flowers. Now, the irony is I do now, but then I didn't. That's what I think is a big trigger for moms. This child looks like me but is nothing like me. [00:02:15] LESLIE GLASS: All right, I'm going to take us on a completely different track here. [00:02:19] PF: I love this. [00:02:21] LESLIE GLASS: I think the conflict between mothers and daughters begins with the fact that mothers have control in the young years, and they need to have control. Moms are the ones who tell you what to eat and when to go to bed and how to do everything. I think that moms do this because it's their job to keep their children safe, and it's their job to kind of raise their children well. I think what happens when daughters go to middle school and high school, that's where the independence, the – of course, starting at the age of two, they want their own independence. But going into middle school, when girls have their own secrets, they have their own friends, they have extreme challenges, especially nowadays. Wanting to have moms not in their head, not telling them what to do, not telling them how to look, all of those things create conflicts that begin kind of in the teenage years, and they can get stuck there. Lindsey says it's about daughters being the reflection of moms. I think moms want their daughters to be safe. I think they want them to be safe. I think they want them to behave well and achieve well. Who wants to do that when you're a teenager? [00:03:38] PF: Exactly. Well, how is it different than sons? I have friends. I don't have children but I have friends. Pretty much all my friends have children, and I see a big difference with those who have boys and those who have – I have one friend, very good friend, and she's like, “I would much rather have my two boys and put up with all the things that come with boys than navigate with girls.” What's the difference? [00:04:01] LESLIE GLASS: I'm going to start. I think that very often, you just give your sons a lot of slack. You think they're handsome. You think they're wonderful. You think they're doing well. But we can't make generalizations about anything. I think we’re – I would say girls are prey animals, so we are very, very concerned about keeping our daughters safe. I will say that over and over and over again. Your son is going to get into fights. He's going to tussle. He may start drinking early and do bad things. But you kind of let it go because you think they're tougher, and they can handle it. Of course, some mothers in many cultures think their sons are perfect, no matter what. [00:04:42] PF: Absolutely. [00:04:43] LESLIE GLASS: What would you say, Lindsey? [00:04:45] LINDSEY GLASS: Yes. I think it's just less emotionally charged with boys. I've certainly seen dads who are really hard on their sons, and let the girls get away with everything. I do think the wanting to protect the daughter and keep her safe and know everything has a lot to do with it. Yes, I think boys just share less also, so you don't necessarily know. A mentor, and I was talking to one of my colleagues there, and I was like, “How are you doing?” She goes, “I've got a teenage daughter,” and I just started laughing. [00:05:20] PF: It’s like that’s all you need to say. [00:05:22] LINDSEY GLASS: I said, “What's going on?” She goes, “She's in her feelings.” No one needed to say anything else. Everyone in the room understood. [00:05:31] PF: It's like a moment of silence for Mom. [00:05:32] LINDSEY GLASS: That 13, 14-year-old. Yes, inner feelings. I think that's part of it. The girls will come home, and sometimes they share. Sometimes, they don't. “Oh, they cut me out of the friend group. I didn't get invited to the mall.” I think it opens the door for a lot more drama. [00:05:50] PF: Right. Now, you all have an interesting relationship, and this book is a product of that. First of all, I have to say this book is so insightful, and it takes us through so many areas of conflict that makes us realize how universal this is. Just that recognition is incredibly helpful. But can you talk a little bit? Tell our listeners a little about your relationship and how that led to writing this book. [00:06:16] LINDSEY GLASS: I'll jump in on this one. We went off track in my teen years, and we got into the fighting habit. I call it the fighting habit. We had different communication styles. We had different personality styles. We just started clashing at a certain point and really struggled as the years went on. We were always close. There were times we were very close, but we would just battle. As the years went on, it becomes more and more toxic to have somebody in your life that you're battling and issues of control, issues of boundaries. That kind of split us up. We both went off and did a lot of our own work and found our way back. Here are a few of the things we realized. Almost everybody's struggling with a few of these issues. Too, we're so busy pointing fingers at other people. We forget sometimes to step back, stop fighting, and look at ourselves. There were so many universal things that we were experiencing that we were seeing happening with. I'm in recovery. I sponsor young women. I’m sponsored, which means I work with younger sober people, and we were hearing the same things, and nobody had tools. We were seeing tons of people who just were screaming at each other with no tools on how to stop. We've been writing for our website for 12 years on relationships and mental health and behavioral health. We said, “Hey, we actually have a story to share, and we have the tools to share.” Because we're a family in recovery, we're very solution-based. We'll talk about the problem, but we want to move on to the solution, so less takeover. [00:08:01] LESLIE GLASS: You did that really well, Lindsey. I've been a good trainer as a mom. I think that – [00:08:08] LINDSEY GLASS: She talks about it like a horse trainer. [00:08:10] PF: Exactly. [00:08:10] LESLIE GLASS: She's got a great gate. She can [inaudible 00:08:13] a pony. [00:08:14] PF: She can move her head the right way. [00:08:16] LESLIE GLASS: I think that Lindsey hit the nail on the head. We've been writing about relationships for 12 years, and I've been a novelist for 30 years before that. I'm a novelist. I was a journalist before that. When Lindsey and I started working together, our whole purpose was to try and create the content, a body of content that would lift the stigma from addiction and explain what life in recovery looks like. In order to do that, we had to kind of out ourselves. I mean, we had to say, “You want to know what recovery looks like or if you think recovery isn't working, we're in recovery. This is what recovery looks like. It looks like the two of us.” [00:08:58] LINDSEY GLASS: Not always but sometimes. [00:09:00] LESLIE GLASS: Well, yes. I mean, it doesn't always look like us because there are some families where part of the family is in recovery and part of the family isn't in recovery. There are a lot of clashes over that. We had a mission. I think that Lindsey and I have been writers forever and ever and ever. That is part of our solution. Our part of our solution is creating the tools and being able to understand what's happening. We've been writing about this family function, dysfunction, addiction, what is addiction, what is recovery for a lot of years. We decided because self-help books can be kind of descriptive in terms of telling you what to do prescriptive but without having the background of being able to say, “Well, how does change really happen?” The evolution was to take the knowledge that we had acquired over 12 years and put it in one book. [00:09:51] PF: One thing I really liked about this is you have the journal prompts at the end. It is a very interactive book because it's not something that you just read and you're getting information thrown at you. You actually participate in it and decide how this affects you and what you need to do. I really love that about this book. [00:10:09] LESLIE GLASS: Not everybody likes to write, but there are ways that you can use the journal prompts. The idea is to start in the beginning by telling your story and getting some understanding about where you and your mother come from. What are your backgrounds? The idea is to start getting in the habit of kind of writing things down and with the idea that in the beginning of the book, you think one way, and then you go through these 61 journal prompts. At the end of the book, look at it and say, “Oh, wait a minute. Okay, I'm different now. Or I can look at it, and my perspective has changed.” [00:10:43] PF: That's super important, and I love that you brought up the fact that you dive into your background because so many books, so many resources, they look at the immediate problem. Can you explain to us why it's so important for you to go back? You went way back, not just how your mother was raised. I found it fascinating as you tied all these threads together and showed the way that your great, great grandmother's upbringing influenced you. Can you talk about that, why it's so important to dig back into that? [00:11:14] LESLIE GLASS: I will because I think when we just look at our mother, we're just looking at this person who irritates us. No matter how great your relationship is, this person who raised you is going to be irritating or in some way or another. But how did she get the way she is, and how did I get the way I am? As we started to write our own stories, I wanted everybody to go back and be able to see, “Well, my mother was an immigrant,” or, “My grandmother was an immigrant.” Or she was Greek or she was Irish or she was Swedish. How does that culture inform our behavior? A lot of our behavior, a lot of our beliefs come from our culture and our religion. How do those different components on make our mother act the way she did, our grandmother act the way she did? Now, I'm acting the way I am because the way I act are things that were taught to me by my grandmother who lived a hundred years ago and my great-grandmother who raised her. When you understand the components and the history of the women in your family and what they've been through, maybe the traumas that they've been through, you have more perspective, and you have more compassion for the way you were raised. All of us have toxic aspects to our relationships. [00:12:35] LINDSEY GLASS: I think that's really, really good. I think one of the things I just wanted to expand on for a second was it's that compassion and that point of view. I was so angry at my mom about certain behaviors and certain things. Now, I'm an adult. I'm in my 40s, and I'm writing a book, and I'm reading about how she had nobody to help her when she had young children. Her mother died when she was young. People were trying to get her not to work. All she wanted to do was work, and they didn't want to let her work. There were just so many things and traumas that happened in her own life that I didn't know. As a teenager, you’re so angry like, “What's wrong with you?” Then as an adult, you're like, “Oh, my gosh.” She was dealing with mental health stuff, whatever the situation was. She was in a tumultuous marriage. She had no female support in her life. We didn't live in a world where we could talk about how we were feeling. This is a relatively new thing. Learning that mental health history is also really important, so you're not sitting here going, “Why do I feel crazy? Why do I –” Well, maybe there are reasons. [BREAK] [00:13:42] PF: We'll be right back with Leslie and Lindsey Glass. But I wanted to take a moment to talk about how you can make your day more comfortable and more stylish with help from Franne Golde. This line of clothing was created by a Grammy-winning musician who knows the importance of looking good on the road. But she didn't want to sacrifice comfort, so she created a line of wrinkle-free essentials to build a wardrobe that feels as good as it looks. Right now, Franne Goldie is providing Live Happy Now listeners 20% off their first order of $75 or more. You can go to frannegolde.com/podcast and use the code HAPPY for 20% off. That's F-R-A-N-N-E-G-O-L-D-E.com/podcast for 20% off your order of $75 or more with the code HAPPY. Now, let's get back to my talk with Leslie and Lindsey to learn more about how to repair a fractured mother-daughter relationship. [INTERVIEW RESUMED] [00:14:41] PF: As you came to grips with everything, your relationship, all the dynamics of it, how did you outline how to put that into this book? It's very thoughtfully arranged and it takes us through this. As you said, these steps at the end, you're like, “I'm a changed person.” How did you come up with this outline? [00:14:59] LINDSEY GLASS: What most people don't know is we actually wrote a different version of this book 14 years ago. We were glad that version never made it because we had so much more to go through, and it was a much darker story. It didn't have the self-help stuff because that's something our business has grown into. We had a lot of the story that we wanted to tell about ourselves already in our heads. Then as far as how we actually outline the steps, we really wanted to take the reader on kind of a transformative experience so that when they started, they were over here thinking, “Oh, she's the problem. This is what's happened in my life.” We followed almost a 12-step formula, which is we want you to get some understanding about who you are and what's happened. Then we want you to understand what the issues are, so we chose the eight biggest issues that mothers and daughters fight about for part two. Then for part three and part four, that's pretty much all self-help. Part three, obviously, if you're in this situation, you need healing and forgiveness. We spent four years doing that. We're going to talk about all the things we did. Then the end is some people are not going to be able to reconcile if there's addiction or serious mental health issues or somebody is unsafe. These situations happen, and we wanted to create a section for what to do if you can't reconcile. Because we love recovery, it changed our lives. We did a whole recovery lifestyle piece because any family that's been through dysfunction, everybody's recovering from something. Has a family member been sick? Has there been suicide in the family? Did somebody lose a job and it created financial instability? All of these things you can find recovery from. That's the sort of model we followed, and we got a lot of good advice along the way. [00:17:06] LESLIE GLASS: I think it's funny because our contract says that we need to write kind of a self-help book in 165 pages, right? When Lindsey and I started getting into it, we knew that the issues that mother and daughters fight about, the eight issues that we chose, was almost the book contract. [00:17:24] LINDSEY GLASS: Length of the book, yes. [00:17:25] LESLIE GLASS: Yes, the length of the book. You can't just start with triggers and traumas. You can't start a book with what are your triggers because you have to first understand who you are. What is it about my daughter that's making me angry? Does it come from me or does it come from my mother, right? We really felt that you need to have a background for everything that you're talking about. You can't just – Lindsey, you said it perfectly. So many self-help books that we read, they're taking the problem. You're fighting. You may be addicted to fighting because it's bringing those bad hormones front and center. [00:18:01] LINDSEY GLASS: We used our own story for there always to be a little bit of background. Here's what happened to us. Now, you can figure out what happened to you. [00:18:11] PF: I like that because kind of like sitting down with a therapist where you're not just having to say, “Okay, here's what's going on.” Or it's like you soften us up a bit by sharing you're so vulnerable and open with us about your story, which makes me as a reader more willing to be open. I think that's very well done with this. [00:18:29] LINDSEY GLASS: It's just interesting. When you start to actually talk about these kind of – I don't want to call them shameful but issues that nobody likes to admit. People don't like to admit that there are problems in the family or that somebody's lying or that somebody has an addiction. I'm sure you know as well as I do. Addictions don't have to be just to drugs and alcohol. [00:18:50] PF: Right. I would love for our listeners to hear about some of the universal conflicts because you do break it down where someone might be reading it thinking, “I thought it was just me and my mom that went through it about this topic.” Let's talk about what are the major areas of conflict between mothers and daughters. [00:19:08] LESLIE GLASS: I'm going to start with food because I think food is a big one in this country right now, and we do talk a lot about food. I was overfed as a child. That meant that people were pushing a lot of food into me all of the time when I wasn't hungry, but I wasn't allowed to have snacks. Now, all day every day in America, people are feeding their children snacks all day long. Then they're worried about whether they're too heavy or they're not too heavy. The whole idea of what the food industry has done to us in terms of not eating meals anymore. We used to eat meals. We used to have breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Now, it's like snack time all day long. [00:19:49] PF: We graze. We don't eat. We graze. Yes. [00:19:51] LESLIE GLASS: I think it's very difficult to be thin in a family where people are big. I think it's very difficult to be big in a family where the people are thin. I think there's a lot of conflict around food and culture and confusing food with love and all of that. I would say food is a big one. [00:20:14] LINDSEY GLASS: I'll list them out, and then I'll tell you the ones that we struggled with. We did boyfriends, girlfriends, romantic partners. I mean, come on, endless possibilities. Does mom not like the boyfriend, the girlfriend? Are there sexuality questions that family members don't understand? Romantic partners was a huge one. That wasn't an issue for us actually. She was very, very accepting of my friends and partners, so we didn't actually have that one. We had money. Money was one of our biggest trigger issues because my mom was successful. She spoiled me, and I grew up thinking that what she had I had. We had to do some real boundary work. We can talk about money in a second. There was food, independence, and codependence. [00:21:05] LESLIE GLASS: Codependence. [00:21:06] LINDSEY GLASS: Those issues of mom wanting to know where you are, what you're doing, are you calling me, what's your curfew, and daughters wanting to be more independent. Or for every one of these situations, there's the opposite. There's the good girl with a party-girl mom. Why aren't I being picked up on school? Why am I the only one left over at the sleepover whose mom hasn't picked her up? My mom would forget me and bring me places on the wrong day. Guess what? So did her mom, did the same thing. Full taffeta dress, party gift in my hand, knocking on the door. “Leslie, today is not the birthday party. Take her home. It's next week.” [00:21:44] PF: Oh, no. [00:21:47] LESLIE GLASS: I have trouble with numbers. [00:21:50] PF: That's because you're a journalist. [00:21:51] LINDSEY GLASS: And I inherited that. Appearance and style, that's another big one. I was a club kid and a grunge kid, and that was infuriating to my mother, boundaries and detachment. Then the last two, and this isn't for every family, but when these are involved, they're a huge deal, drugs and alcohol and mental illness. Those to us and from a little bit of research seem to be the biggest global issues that mothers and daughters fight about. For us, obviously, drugs and alcohol, independence and codependence, those were our big ones. [00:22:31] PF: Right now, mental health is such a huge concern. We just did something, the World Happiness Report, and it showed how Gen Z in particular is suffering. Their mental health is very, very poor. Then the millennials aren't doing great either. Gen X is a little better, and then the boomers are fine. What then, as parents, if you're a mother and you have a daughter who is part of Gen Z, who is going through this mental distress that's happening globally really, what are some of the ways that they can navigate that? [00:23:05] LINDSEY GLASS: When I talk to parents, one of the things we want to have them do is really pay attention. Don't look the other way. It's not a phase. It's usually not a phase. Or the boys will be boys, that's not acceptable. These are not acceptable things anymore. We have to really look at the behavior and ask questions and not all always – here's the thing. No one wants to believe their child lies, no one. But some do, and it's very hard when you talk to parents because they say, “My child would never lie to me.” Then I get in the room with the kids, and I'm like, “How many of you are actually telling your parents everything that's going on in your lives?” Not one hand goes up, so they have to check. My mom talks. She goes, “I never called any other parents.” I believed her. I was never where I said I was. Had she called once, she would have known. I was never where I said I was. I mean, I might have gone to that person's house at the end of the night, but we certainly weren't sitting home baking Toll House cookies and watching movies. [00:24:10] LESLIE GLASS: You said you were. [00:24:10] PF: That is not what was going on. [00:24:13] LINDSEY GLASS: That's what I kind of say to parents. Take it really seriously, and always feel good and okay about getting outside help. Kids don't want to talk to their parents. They're going to talk to somebody else. When you ask kids why they don't want to talk to their parents, they don't want to disappoint them. They don't want to worry them. They don't want to start a fight. Kids aren't being bad. They're just – I didn't want to say to my mom, “I think I'm a drug addict at 15.” Mom, do you want to add stuff? [00:24:43] LESLIE GLASS: I do because you write a lot about despair. I think what happens in middle school and high school, kids experience trauma, a lot more trauma than in earlier generations. I think a lot of the trauma happens then. It happens because of drinking. It happens because of bullying. It happens for a myriad of reasons. But kids are – threefold concern is how am I achieving, how do I look, and how do I behave. That's how parents and their teachers are looking at them. They're being judged by their looks, their behavior, and their achievement. Basically, what makes us good human beings and what makes us happy human beings later in life have nothing to do with how we look, how we achieve, and how we behave. It's what's happening inside. The one thing that parents are not talking about, except your friend who you were mentoring the other day said inner feelings, but basically parents are not really connected with their children's inner feelings. They don't have the tools for children and young adults to be able to talk to them in a way that inspires them and helps them move past whatever destructive feelings or conditioning they're getting elsewhere. We just aren't helping our teens and our young adults. They don't have that drive and ambition. A lot of them don't have it, so it may be because marijuana is more prevalent, and it makes you not care a lot. I think that we're missing a step in development, and that's emotional development. Because we're not working on that piece of human development, our young people are feeling empty, lost. They don't know what their place is in society, and they're scared. [00:26:32] LINDSEY GLASS: Let's be honest. There were no shootings in schools when I was growing up. There was no climate catastrophe. We were way, way more protected in the world in the early nineties than we are now. [00:26:44] LESLIE GLASS: I think every student, every young person, whether it's a high school student or a college student, knows somebody who's died or maybe a number of people who have died. Their siblings are may be using drugs. They may be incredibly frightened. We're concerned about mental health, but are we using the kind of tools that we need to stay connected emotionally with our children? Mental health is not jumping off the roof. It's finding ways to live happy. Live well and be happy. [00:27:13] PF: It is. It is. When children are born, you hear parents say, “I don't care. I just want them to be happy and healthy.” Then by the time they're three years old, they're like, “I want them to get into this school, and I want them to do this, and I want them to be a doctor or a lawyer.” It’s interesting to see how every parent wants their child to be happy, but we're not really equipping them with the tools and skills to achieve happiness. We teach them how to be successful, but we don't teach them how to be happy. [00:27:40] LESLIE GLASS: That's right. Yes, that's right. [00:27:42] PF: One thing that struck me as I was reading your book is how this is about changing the relationship between the current mother and daughter. How, in doing that, is that going to change subsequent generations? That’s what strikes me is like this is a book that does just change the two – the mother-daughter. You can affect generations by making these changes. Have you talked about that? [00:28:06] LESLIE GLASS: Absolutely. It's like breaking the cycles, breaking the cycles, breaking all destructive cycles, whether it's a fighting habit, whether it's being judgmental about everything the other one does, whether it's that fight or flight kind of slamming doors or that being silent, that being silent and being cold to each other. The whole idea is to find compassion for the other person and have the tools, have the actual ways to stop your fighting, have the – we talk about triggers and how to stop your triggers. I think that once you create new habits and new cultural habits with your mother and daughter, your grandchildren are going to repeat it, your sons. It will also work with all your other relationships. [00:28:56] PF: About that, go ahead and answer. I was going to ask about that, too. [00:28:59] LINDSEY GLASS: Well, I'm going to lead right into that question because often when one person changes, people follow. If one person gets sober, sometimes other people get sober. If one person in the family says, “Hey, I'm not going to fight anymore. You want to talk to me. Here's how you have to talk to me,” and it sticks. Then, yes, you're going to be moving forward. I think the whole thing about stopping the generational stuff is clarity because people are walking around not even understanding that they're behaving in ways. I have heard so many women tell me how crazy their mother is. Then I'm looking at their lives and their behavior and their relationships, and I'm like, “Apple doesn't fall far from the tree, honey.” In our family, we said, “Hey, we've got X, Y, and Z going on, and we don't want this going on to the next generation. So here are the things we're willing to do.” Here's the problem with outing yourself. Once everybody knows, you have to be accountable. There's a certain amount of accountability that we're forced into just by – I'm like – now, I can't scream at people in the car because somebody will recognize me. [00:30:15] LESLIE GLASS: She's not so recovered. [00:30:18] PF: As I said, this is an incredible book. It has so much advice and so much insight to give. What is it that you hope to see come out of it? [00:30:25] LINDSEY GLASS: My big thing was hope because when we were in that bad place, it felt hopeless. It wasn't until I went into certain kinds of groups that I even knew other people were dealing with it. My hope is that it shares with a lot of people that a lot of us are going through this and that you're not alone. If you struggle with your mom or daughter, you are just not alone, and there are some solutions. What about you? [00:30:50] LESLIE GLASS: I just want people to understand more about the female experience. I want people to be able to look and say, “Oh, my gosh. I didn't know that about women. I didn't know that about women. I didn't know.” It was looking back a hundred years of the way my great-grandmother probably didn't know how to read. She raised nine children, and they all went on to be successful people. I just want people to understand how much trauma and how difficult it is to be a woman. How great we are. The Chinese say that we hold up half of the heaven, but we probably hold up the whole heaven because there wouldn't be any humanity without us. I want mothers and daughters to have more compassion for who we are and what we've accomplished in the world, what we have to go through. [00:31:44] PF: Lindsey, Leslie, fabulous spending time with you today. I know our listeners are going to love this. We're going to tell them how they can find you, how they can find your book, and how they can start healing their own mother-daughter relationships. [00:31:56] LESLIE GLASS: Awesome. [00:31:57] PF: Thank you for what you've done. [00:31:57] LINDSEY GLASS: Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:32:03] PF: That was Leslie and Lindsey Glass, authors of The Mother-Daughter Relationship Makeover. If you'd like to learn more about them, discover their book, or follow them on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Live Happy Now. If you aren't already receiving us every week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think of the show. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Becoming a Mindful Mother With Jennifer Mulholland [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 465 of Live Happy Now. In just a few days, we're going to celebrate Mother's Day. But the fact is, all the moms out there need to take time to celebrate themselves every day. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and today, I'm sitting down with Jennifer Mulholland, a working mom, conscious leadership expert, and co-author of the book, Leading with Light: Choosing Conscious Leadership When You're Ready for More. Jennifer's work focuses on cultivating presence and rediscovering the light within, and she's here to talk about how we can bring that business principle into our lives as mothers and how it can change the world for us and around us. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:47] PF: Jennifer, thank you for joining me on Live Happy Now. [0:00:49] JM: Thank you. It's so wonderful to be here today, Paula. [0:00:53] PF: We have a big day coming up, and that's Mother's Day. So, that's the perfect time to talk about something that you call mindful mothering. I was really taken by that phrase. I may have heard it before. But it landed with me differently when I received that email about you talking about that. So, I wonder to start things, if you could explain what it means to be a mindful mother. [0:01:16] JM: Lovely. Yes, I think, well, first of all, being a mother is such a gift that we've been given for those of us that have children, or mothering our pets, or mothering our parents. It comes in many different forms. But I really feel like we've just been given such an incredible gift to be in that role. Being a mindful mother really means being more aware, aligned, and intentional, and how we nurture those we care for, and how we nurture and care for ourselves. It's all too easy to be the givers, and the doers, and the coordinators, and the schedulers, and the lovers, and the band-aid-ers, and all the roles that mothering comes. It's too easy to leave ourselves out of that equation. So, being a mindful mother is really slowing down to be present with your way and how you care for others and how you care for yourself. [0:02:23] PF: That sounds amazing. We know that would have incredible results. You can tell just from thinking about it and how it feels when you think about that, you know it's going to have an incredible effect. But what happens in real life, when you're burning the candle at both ends, and the kids are going crazy, and all kinds of chaos is happening around you. How do you maintain that mindful mother state when everything around you is chaos? [0:02:49] JM: Yes. It's such a practice and it's a giant experiment. So, what works for me, may not work for you and we're all trying to figure it out. I would say, the old adage that we can't give what we don't have, I feel like is the routing of where I'm coming from with this kind of idea, in the sense that, to be mindful is to really be aware of what works for you and what doesn't. To be aligned with that and then be more intentional in how you show up. One of the greatest ways we can practice is practicing presence. Literally, being present with the micro-moment that shows up. Oftentimes, we are so hijacked as mothers, where we're doing one thing, and then we get a call from our child, or depending upon the age of your children, like you have a tug on your leg, or the door opens and it's all of a sudden, you're constantly distracted and multitasked and taken away from being present. So, practicing being present, pulling yourself back with whatever is in front of us. Because if a child or if a loved one comes in, then how can you be attentive with them fully? One of our greatest gifts is our presence. It's not necessarily what we're saying all the time, or the decisions that we're making, or the advice we're giving. It's the energy, it's the essence at which we show up in that exchange. Oftentimes, it's not verbal. Oftentimes, it's just the way we are when somebody is needing something from us. That can be a choice of whether it's frenetic, and distracted, and frustrated, and irritated because we've been interrupted for the 10 millionth time. That's human and we all get that place. Or it can be practice in a way that we really slow down and look to the other person of what are they needing from me right now? Do they need a solution? Do they need to be told? Do they need advice? Or do they just need my love and care, and I need a hold space for them, so they feel heard and seen and supported? So, they can figure it out. Man, that's the art of parenting, of just, when do you know when to shut up? When you don't know just to let your child figure it out for themselves? But you are really with them in that discovery. I feel like one of the routing of a practice is making sure that we are present with whatever is showing up in our field. Because when we are we actually take in more information. That's the awareness. We're able to see and sense and feel a lot more information coming in, that helps us attune and align to what is needed in the moment for ourselves and for the other person that's showing up. [0:06:10] PF: That goes completely into what you talk about in the business realm with conscious leadership and being present. How, as parents, as mothers, as women, do we learn how to start doing that? Because again, you talked about. It is a practice. It's something you can get up in the morning and say, “I'm going to be present today and I'm going to do this.” Then the fires start and they plan to go out the window. So, what are some of the tools that you use and that you give to others to help them learn how to be present? [0:06:42] JM: Well, one of the things, mantras I say, as soon as my feet hit the ground, when I wake up in the morning is, “I am fully embodied.” What that means for me is like my presence is fully in this vehicle and vessel. Because if it's not, we often kind of live in the realm of our heads. A lot of thinking. So, we kick into automatic habit of doing, doing, doing, and coordinating, and scheduling, and showing up, and driving, and all of the things that we do. Oftentimes that's coming from our headspace. So, really try and bring my awareness into my heart space and into the full body vehicle just with that mantra. It helps me ground so that I can listen to my body's cues. That is probably the number one hack that I think we miss a lot and in how our body speaks to us, giving us cues throughout the day of when we are feeling alive and aligned to our light within and when we're not. When we want to leave the room, when we want to procrastinate, when we want to pull back. When we live in our head, we kind of check out of our body's innate wisdom that's constantly giving us the cues of what works for us and what doesn't. One of the practices of being present is just tuning into how does my body feel in this moment? Am I leaning into this conversation? Am I feeling engaged? Do I want to learn more? Stay here? Am I curious? Or am I wanting to get the hell out of here as fast as I can? Am I frustrated? Am I distracted? Am I bored? Our bodies tell us that information all the time. So, I think as moms, as we're spinning a lot of plates and trying to be more mindful in the automatic role of giving, giving, giving, we forget that actually, if we can tune the attention back to mothering ourselves first, what does my body need in this moment? What is it telling me? What does my spirit soul, light, whatever you name it to be need, to feel calm, to feel peaceful, to feel connected? Your body will tell you. A great practice is, I love journal journaling. My business partner and I journal all the time. One great exercise is to literally write a letter to your body, or write a letter to your soul, or spirit, or light, or essence. And ask it what it needs from you, as if it was your inner child. So, if I'm exhausted and I am so tired at the end of the day, and I don't have any energy, and I'm gaining weight, and I'm feeling down, and I can't figure that out, write a letter to your body and ask what it needs. Your body will tell you. Just write, write, write what it’s saying. Or if you're feeling like, “Wow, I am so scattered and depleted by giving to all my relationships, and my partner, and my family, and my parents, I am just feeling depleted.” Ask your spirit, your light, what it needs to feel more alive, more connected. You'd be so surprised of the wisdom that you already have, we just forget to ask it. [0:10:26] PF: I love that. We do forget that we can tap into ourselves. We're always looking for a cup of coffee, or something else that's going to do that for us. You really talk about – what you're talking about is extreme self-care. It's not just taking a bubble bath. It's really taking care of your soul. It's more like soul care. As moms, it's often difficult to put ourselves first, to say like, “I am going to shut everything out and take care of myself.” But why is it important that women do that and take that time for self-care? How does that make them better as mothers? [MESSAGE] [0:11:03] PF: We'll be right back with Jennifer's answer about how moms can practice self-care. But right now, I wanted to share one of my favorite new indulgences. Discovering the incredibly luxurious bedding from Cozy Earth has completely changed the way I sleep. If you want to get some of the best sleep you've ever had, you need to check it out. I never dreamed that bedsheets could change your life. But Cozy Earth made a believer out of me with these super soft bamboo sheets. They not only feel amazing, but they come in so many beautiful colors that you'll find at least one that fits your style. What's even better is Cozy Earth is as convinced as I am that you'll love these sheets. So, they're offering a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty on every purchase. What have you got to lose? Not sleep. To sweeten the deal, we're giving you a discount so you can enjoy the luxury you deserve with Cozy Earth. So, head over to cozyearth.com and use promo code Happy 35 for an exclusive 35% off. That's cozyearth.com and use the promo code Happy 35. Now, let's get back to my talk with Jennifer and find out how practicing self-care makes us better mothers. [INTERVIEW CONTINUES] [0:12:14] JM: The world needs more love and care and connection and community and peace. I really believe like the feminine principle, the Divine Mother is here to help cultivate that state of being for ourselves and for all. If we desire that out there in a world where we wish that there's no more war, and we wish for more peace, the only way we are going to get to that as a society is to have that individually in ourselves. There's no better person equipped for that than the mother. Learning what self-care looks like to you, is I just want to say, it’s a giant experiment. Because I have gotten so frustrated myself of like, “Well, I know I need to care for myself. I don't freaking know how to do it. I don't know what I need and it changes.” So, give yourself more grace in experimenting and checking in, like, “What do I need and want in this moment? What would feel good?” I think that question, what feels good to me now is so helpful, and following the feeling of feeling good, is likely to lead to peace, and love, and more care, and nurturing. So, that feels like the playground. If we could follow the feeling of feeling good, more for ourselves, whatever that is, and that can change 10 times throughout the day, then we can really bring that state of calmness, of more peace and groundedness and connection to anybody we connect with, especially our families and loved ones. [0:14:14] PF: Yes. As you were talking, I could see just like putting it across my computer, what would feel good right now? Just so you have that constant reminder until you get into that rhythm of looking for that and seeking that out. In your work, because you work with so many different people. What do you see as the biggest obstacle to finding what is good for them? Because I know it's probably an obstacle we're putting up ourselves. [0:14:39] JM: I see so a lot of caregivers, that they're so good at caring for others and they've lost themselves, that they haven't put themselves in that relationship. Over time, that depletes us all, right? I've been one of them too. Just going, going, going and not even catching myself that – because it felt selfish in a way. Self-care, caring for self is not selfish. I just want to rearchitect that unconscious belief system that somehow we have to be humble, and be the givers, and the Wonder Women, and have the red capes to be able to come in, and be strong, and resilient, and know the answers, and know where we're going. And it's just bullshit, we don't, right? So, experimenting and being more gentle. One of the greatest barriers is lack of self-worth. I don't feel enough. I feel like I have to lose weight to be better. I have to dye my hair to be better. I have to have the right job to be better. I can't just be a mom. I have to be a working mom and I have to have a business and I have to be on this ladder and this trajectory. There’s so many conditions, unconsciously, I think that we have kind of layered ourselves with, and it's tricky, because it's not obvious. I think what I would love to, for other people, to give themselves permission to be human, and hear, and know that you're enough right now. That you have everything that you need to not only nurture others, but to nurture yourself in a more mindful, intentional way. We get to choose if the monkey mind, if the inner critic is getting louder and louder, and my confidence, or your confidence is going lower and lower, we get to choose when we're going to say, “How is that working for me? Is it working for me? Is it giving me the results I want?” If it's not, we get to choose. That's free will. We have this incredible ability to choose to not feed that narrative anymore. That's what gets in the way. The self-worth and society is, especially, in the United States. We are just being bombarded with Instagram ads and like model-type bodies, and this is the house you need to have. It beats you down after a while. [0:17:31] PF: How does that affect people as mothers? Because, again, they're getting that message of you shouldn't be doing this, and you should be all these things. And the normal female is like, “I'm not and I can't.” What does that do to us emotionally and mentally, when we're getting all these messages, that we should, we should, we should, and we're like, “I can't?” [0:17:56] JM: Right. Well, what has happened is that it's kicked in a response to do more. The opposite is the antidote, honestly. The less we do, the more space we have, the more space we create, the more space we give ourselves to be ourselves fully. We kind of can then start to subtly unplug from those unconscious messages, and cultural conditionings, and programs that kick us into this idea that we need to have more, do more, to be more. Where I'm sitting in practice is, “Well, what if I just were to be me? What would that look like?” That takes a lot of practice, to bring more of my full self to my children, instead of having such a schedule, to have space where there's no schedule, and there's room in those spaces for new connection, new insight to come through. If we're so overscheduled and we're on the hamster wheel seeking to be more, to do more, to have more, which is the kind of cultural machine in the United States. We just start to deplete because we're not restoring, we're not remembering who we are, and that who we are is a being, it's a human being. It's not a human doing, as we've all been kind of tricked to believe. [0:19:36] PF: I'd love to talk about how if a mother can change and learn to be a mindful mother can become more present, what is that going to teach her children? Because one thing we've talked about, just last week's podcast, we talked about Gen Z and the horrible state of mental health among young people, and what the surveys are showing us. Obviously, so much of it is your product of the home in which you're raised as well. So, if you become a mindful mother, what kind of gift are you giving your children? And how are you changing their experience when they become parents of their own? [0:20:12] JM: I come back to presence, because I think that is really getting hijacked to use that term, again, in society and with the technology that our attention spans have become so short in what we're able to sit with and be with. A mother's presence, unspoken, it's like the healing ointment that is needed. That may look like a deep connection with your child in that moment. It may just be sitting with them, not saying anything. It may be really deeply listening, not to fix, not to solve, not to give advice, but to listen to where they're coming from, as they share it. That seems to be a real helpful tool that if we can practice being present and not meeting our children in the frenetic bounce of subject to subject, multitask, multimedia, kind of state of affairs. If we can ground in learning how to quiet our own minds, we become less reactive, and we become more intentional in how we respond and participate in the care that we're giving. Again, we can't give that care unless we are giving that care to ourselves. So, I think with the Gen Z, we’re kind of in the state with mental health, where we have really bought our thinking. We're buying our low-quality thoughts. And we – [0:22:08] PF: I love how you put that. I've never heard it put that way and I love that. [0:22:12] JM: We're not taught to question them. We're taught to identify that those things, thoughts are me. That's who I am. Versus I'm in a low mood, I woke up feeling shitty, or whatever, and I'm having low-quality thinking right now. So, I'm actually not going to take my thinking so seriously, because I can't really trust it, because it's not really helpful. We get to choose what we're buying, and we just haven't really been educated or taught that we have a say in which thoughts we're going to digest. We do it so unconsciously. And the moment, we pull a thought down and digest it, guess what it does? It creates a feeling. That feeling then emanates and then we attract people that match that feeling. So, we have a society right now, and especially with the Gen Z generation, I feel like that they're being bombarded with so much negativity, and we don't have tools to help them navigate which thinking, which thoughts they're choosing, and which thoughts they're not. Now granted, there are many people that are in different states of mental health, that I don't want to diminish the causality, and the conditions that are so many different flavors that people have. But I do believe when we are present, we get to then more consciously choose which thoughts we're buying, and we want to bring into our digestive system, and create the feelings we want to have throughout the day and which ones we don't. [0:23:46] PF: I love the way you present that. It paints such a wonderful picture, and really sums it up. So, what do you want moms to think about? If you're talking directly to all the moms out there, what is the one thing that they should keep in mind say, beginning with this Mother's Day and then hearing through, to become more mindful, and to enjoy this journey of motherhood and life more? [0:24:12] JM: What do you really need for yourself to feel mothered? If you were to mother yourself, or if you are your own best friend, and you could wrap yourself in the care and the love and the nurturing that you really need, what you need today, tomorrow, this week, to feel more cared for? To feel more supported? To feel more gotten? To feel more loved? Try those things. Just do something for yourself. I would so encourage you to create space for yourself with yourself, with no one else. That can look like meditation. It could look like going for a walk outside in nature. It could look like journaling for five minutes on what you have to be grateful for. It could look like taking a yummy bath and putting bubbles in it. But just really mothering yourself is a learned practice. I didn't learn how to mother myself from my mom. I learned how to be a great mom to my children from my mom. But now, I'm like having to learn how do I mother myself? Mothering the mother within, I do feel like is a game changer to unlock this next level of capacity for our divine feminine that is wired to nurture. It's wired to naturally love, and include, and care, and create peace and harmony. Don't we want that for our families and communities in the world? So, I would encourage you as we go up to Mother's Day, to put yourself at that center and say, “What do I need to feel mothered? To feel nurtured? To feel loved?” And try it. [0:26:14] PF: I love it. That is a perfect way to wrap this up. You have a lot to teach us. We're going to tell our listeners how they can find your book, how they can find you, and learn more. But thank you. This is incredible conversation and I appreciate you coming and hanging out with me. [0:26:27] JM: Oh, thank you so much. To all the mothers out there, you're doing a great job and you're worth every single penny, every single second, and we're so grateful. I'm so grateful to walk this path with you. Thanks, Paula. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:26:46] PF: That was Jennifer Mulholland, talking about mindful motherhood. If you'd like to learn more about Jennifer, discover her book, Leading with Light, or follow her on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly live happy newsletter. Every week, we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Gen Z and Mental Health With Deborah Heisz [INTRODUCTION] [00:00:03] LM: Thank you for joining us for episode 466 of Live Happy Now. May is Mental Health Awareness Month. And while we look at mental health all year long, this is the perfect time to take an even closer look at something we all should be talking about. I'm your host, Paula Felps. And today I'm joined by Live Happy CEO and Co-Founder, Deborah Heisz, to talk about Gen Z and mental health. According to recent studies, Generation Z is experiencing unprecedented levels of anxiety, depression, and other mental health concerns. Today, Deb and I are talking about what's causing this Mental Health crisis among young people and what we all can do about it. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:43] PF: Deb, thank you for coming on the show. [00:00:47] DH: Thanks, Paula. It's always a joy when I get to spend some time with you talking about things that we're both passionate about. [00:00:53] PF: Yes. And May is Mental Health Month. We're doing this. This is the last episode of April. Tomorrow we start a shiny new month looking at mental health awareness. And this was a fantastic time to sit down and talk to you. You and I had had this conversation offline about The World Happiness Report and specifically its findings on Gen Z. And so, that conversation was so good. It's like let's do this on the air and talk about it. [00:01:20] DH: I think The World Happiness Report, for us it's kind of a landmark thing. It turns out we started Live Happy while they were working on the World Happiness Report. We of course didn't know that at the time. It's kind of we're parallel in age. We have the same age. What's interesting to me is the World Happiness Report really has started to take a deep dive into human well-being, which is something that wasn't taking place before that. I mean, positive psychology wasn't that old to begin with. And then for governments and for social agencies to really start looking not just at health concerns of their population. But, also, mental well-being of the population really hits the world happiness. A lot of that data is in the World Happiness Report. It's really kind of a cool thing for us. But I think for this year, it's interesting because something appeared that we hadn't seen before. Something really near and dear to my heart. And I kind of want to preface this conversation by reminding everybody or telling everybody if they don't already know, neither Paula nor I are scientists. Paula is an editor, gatherer of information, interpreter of information extraordinaire. One of the best interviewers I've ever met. And truly passionate about what we do at Live Happy. I am an MBA who runs businesses. I'm also a parent of teens who happen to – that's why this episode is particularly interesting to me. We're going to talk about a lot of stuff. But anything we say might be or actually is opinion. This topic is one that needs to be talked about. Needs to be talked about broadly. Which is why even though we don't have the scientific background, it's such a passion thing for us. And I know that you think, just like I think, people need to be talking about this. And what they need to be talking about is the well-being of Generation Z. I mean, when I'm retired, they're the ones who are going to be leading the world. We should really, really care about how they're thinking about themselves. What they're feeling and what they think of the world around them. There's a lot of concerning information in this year's World Happiness Report. [00:03:16] PF: Yeah. Because the thing that really struck me is, overall, in most countries, the happiest generation is the youngest generation. In the US, we were exactly the opposite. Our happiest generation is the Boomer. And then each subsequent generation just gets less happy. And by the time we get down to Gen Z, it's dismal. And that's alarming. Because we know that how happy you are in adolescence is a predictor of your happiness in adulthood. Where would you like to start unpacking this ginormous subject on? Because I'd really like to talk about what's driving it. And then, also, what we can do? Because there's no easy way to turn this around. [00:03:56] DH: No. No. There isn't. When you just mentioned that how happy you are at a young age, in your teen years, is a predictor of how happy you'll be later in life, the truly disturbing fact is that tends to be your happiest point in life. Your teenage years, you tend to be happier than you are later. If they're starting at a lower set point, that does not bode well for the future. If they're already less happy than 30-year-olds, how much less happier are they going to be when they're 30 than 30-year-olds right now? It's very concerning. And the question that everybody has to be asking is why are they less happy than prior generations? Why are they less happy than their peers in other countries or in other regions of the world? It's very concerning. And it's something that people really should be standing on the rooftop screaming, "We've got to do something about this." [00:04:47] PF: Yeah. I think it's like an all-hands-on-deck kind of crisis. Because if they're not happy, then they're giving birth to the next generation. You can just kind of extrapolate what goes on down the line if we can't turn this around. [00:05:01] DH: It's not something that's going to fix itself. It's something that people need to start looking at and saying, "Okay, what's causing this? How do we make changes? What is controllable?" It's always like, "Well, that's great. But I can't really control that." But there's a lot more that as a society we can control and influence that I think we realize. But we have to start. And the way to start is by at least talking about it. [00:05:24] PF: Absolutely. After we had talked about that, you were going to look up some things. Because you were very inspired not just from a professional standpoint. But as you mentioned, personally, you have children who fall into this age group and below. What were some of the things that you found as triggers that are preventing children from being happier? [00:05:45] DH: Well, I think two things really struck me as being things that impact the younger generations right now. And one of them is directly related to where they are in life. My kids – this is not being a scientist. Everything in the world around children is going to somehow be related to my children and to my brain. My kids are looking at college. They're looking at going to college. They're looking at what kind of life am I going to have after college? And I've had several dialogues with my son and his friends about I'm never going to be able to buy a house I'm like, "You're 16. What makes you think you're never going to be able to buy a house?" And they look out and they see the economy and they see all of the information about how expensive you're looking at going to college. How expensive going to college has become relative to what you earn afterwards. They see rising interest rates. They see rising home prices. And if you tell someone who's 16 years old that they're going to have to graduate from college $200,000 in debt and buy a house that's going to cost them $300,000 $400,000, they're like, "What? I will never be able to do that." Numbers they can't get their heads around. But more importantly, the media and the economy is telling them they won't. When we're looking at what's going on in the world and we're exposed to media, our kids are super exposed. I mean, they're on their phones. They talk to their friends. We all know that depending on which version of the internet you're looking at, which site you're looking at, you get different views. And their views may not be what we're seeing. But we do know that they look at the world very differently than the way we look at it. There's a great book by Jason Dorsey called Zconomy which really examines the difference about how young people approach business. How they approach looking for a job. How they approach everything in life. And how different it is from the way the Millennials, the Generations Z and how they approach it. And one of the interesting things to me that he points out is they're more like Generation X. They're more like my generation. How they think about it than they are with the Millennials. And what's cool about that to me is, first of all, I'm Generation X. Therefore, I can relate. And my kids think I'm cool. No. But I like to think they think I'm cool. But when I was growing up, we were coming out of massive inflation. We were coming out of the Reagan Era. There was a concern about jobs. We were pre-recession. But there was this hugely unstable economic outlook in our minds. And so, we all became focused on doing better, on personal achievement. Generation X is very focused on doing what they can do to control their environment, and career path, and working harder. And what's interesting is Generation Z is like that. Although, they don't have the hope that we had. We were always kind of told we can work really hard and control our future. And for some reason, all of this financial information and all this financial fear is manifesting differently in them. I don't think they have the hope they're going to be able to achieve what their parents achieved. That American dream of every generation's better. Maybe we've kind of reached the end of that where they're thinking I just want to catch up. I'm not looking to being better. I'm looking to not falling backwards. [00:09:03] PF: And do you think, too, growing up with parents who maybe are millennials or even Gen X and those parents were given everything and didn't learn how to save in the ways that they spend their money differently? And now Gen Z is like, "I don't want to be broke. I want to be able to do these things." [00:09:24] DH: I will say that Gen X and Millennials, as we know, are more likely to have credit card debt than Baby Boomers. Right? And they're more likely to be in debt. And I do think that there is a debt fear that the next generation doesn't want to be in debt because they've seen the oldest part of that generation live through the 2008 economic crisis. But the youngest part didn't. My son is 17. He was born in 2007. He does not remember 2008 when people were losing jobs and homes. But it does have a follow-on effect. There's that I don't want to be in debt. I don't want to owe people money. I just want to live my life. One of the good things I think though is, like the millennial generation, they care more about the environment. They care more about the planet. They care more about all of that. Here's the challenge. That doesn't necessarily manifest itself in hope. Right? [00:10:14] PF: And right now, it's more like a discouraging thing. Because every day we're seeing like, "Oh, here's one more atrocity that's being committed against the planet." And it's like just that constant drum beat of one more thing going wrong. One more species being extinct. [00:10:30] DH: And you look at it from a standpoint of – last night I was talking to my son and he needed to buy something. I pulled out my phone. I was going to order on Amazon. He's like, "Mom, don't order it on Amazon." I'm like, "Why?" He goes, "That's bad for the environment." Like, what? Everything gets trucked. Everything gets moved. But in his mind, having an individual package sent to the house is bad for the environment. Versus him going to the store and buying it. And I'm like, "Well, you use the same gas in the store to get –" never mind. Let's not introduce logic into the conversation. And he said, "I don't want to support big business. I want to support small business. I don't want conglomerates." That's what's in their head. They're scared of the environment. They're scared of their financial future. They don't see enough action being taken to improve those things. They don't know where they're going to end up. They don't know that the same jobs are going to be there. We look at AI like, "Oh, this is really cool." They look at AI like I was going to be a developer. I was going to be a writer. Am I going to have a job? [00:11:24] PF: Right. Do I just need to learn how to write prompts? Is that what my future holds? [00:11:29] DH: The future holds – scarier, right? A little scarier. I do think that that – now describing a problem, you hope there's a solution. I don't know what the solution is. But I do know that I think that has created a lot of what they're seeing and feeling. And as parents and as people interact with young people, we need to be cognizant of that's their starting place. Their starting place is the world is not healthy. Our generation is killing the Earth. Our opportunity isn't the same as your opportunity. I'm never going to be able to afford a house. I'm going to graduate – if I graduate from high school and go to college, I'm going to end up in a ton of debt. If I graduate from high school and get a job, I'm not going to have the same opportunities I would have had had I gone to college. It's a horrible choice to have to make. For some reason, that generation is focused on not what could be but what is right now. [00:12:18] PF: It's so very interesting. And as you and I have talked, one of the big things driving their mindset is what they see on social media. Because unlike where we grew up with television. And let's face it, it was a pretty sugarcoated TV land when you and I were growing up. We didn't have Dateline with a new dead person every week. It was a completely different world. the social media and how it is just constantly exposing them to new tragedies, to new dangers, to new ways to bully one another, what do you see that doing? You and I have talked about some of the studies that we've read. Can we kind of unpack that a little bit? [00:12:59] DH: I do think social media is a huge. And we go to conferences where they talk about social media having a huge negative impact. We need to acknowledge though social media has a positive impact as well. The positive impact is the ability to communicate, to build relationships, to find like-minded people. Maybe you live in a small town and no one around you seems to have the same interests as you have. You can go on social media and actually interact and have some meaningful touch points with people that are like you and figure out that you're not that weird. That there are other people like you in the world. Or have a conversation with somebody that maybe lives a long way away or maybe still talking to friends at school but you're able to communicate with a larger group and it feels more social and a little less isolated. Because we all know, social isolation is a big driver of depression and negative outlook on life. I do think, in a lot of ways, social media has helped kids feel more involved, more included. Flip side of that of course is the bullying and stuff like that. Is tragic and is an issue. But for me – we could do a whole episode on online bullying. But for me, I think the bigger thing is this FOMO, right? And this not having a good image of yourself when you engage not in that dialogue nature of social media. But in the observing nature of social media. There's this great study that was done. I think it was done by the Mayo Clinic. I'm not sure. Don't quote me on that once again. Not a scientist. But it talks about how, in adolescence, the part of your brain that processes emotions, it develops faster than the part that develops judgment critical thinking. You can have emotions and you can make decisions emotionally as teenagers are prone to do. We all know teenagers do not necessarily stop and think. That critical thinking isn't there. You can respond emotionally to content you're seeing on social media and not really think about it critically. That can develop body image issues in girls particularly. Well, although, boys as well. My son goes to the gym all the time and he really is focused on how he looks as well as being healthy. But body image issues can come into it. Because even though you're seeing it on social media, you don't necessarily think that's not real. Unless it's obviously not real, right? And the other thing is they can see people doing things. And those people look really happy. And they can emotionally react and go, "All those people – that looks like so much fun because all those people are doing it." And then they think, in order to be happy, they need to do that. [BREAK] [00:15:32] PF: We'll get right back to my conversation about Gen Z and mental health. But in addition to this being Mental Health Awareness Month, we have Mother's Day right around the corner. And if you have a new mom in your life, why not give her the gift of a good night's sleep? Did you know that 70% of new parents lose about 3 hours of sleep every night during their baby's first year? Why not help her make the most of the hours she does get with luxurious bedding from Cozy Earth? These super soft bamboo sheets will immediately become her favorite thing. 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Franne Golde is providing Live Happy now listeners 20% off their first order of $75 or more. Go to frannegolde.com/podcast and use code HAPPY for 20% off. That's frannegolde.com/podcast for 20% off your order of $75 more with code HAPPY. And now, let's get back to talking about Gen Z. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [00:17:35] DH: There's this discordance between what they're seeing and what's real. You brought up we watched television. We watched television. We knew that wasn't real. [inaudible 00:17:44] wasn't real. We knew the Loveboat wasn't real. [00:17:48] PF: Wait. Wait. What? [00:17:52] DH: Fantasy Island wasn't real. We watched it and it was entertaining. But we knew that wasn't real life. Social media, I don't think kids get that the image – I think they get it if you talk to them about it. They know it's not real. But, emotionally, they're reacting to it. And so, they may know it's not real. But they still create worry and concern in them. Too much social media, it creates this image that they think they need to live up to. And then they add on, "I'm never going to have enough money. I'm never going to be cute enough. I'm never going to –" whatever it is. It creates a problem. And I do think that's a big driver of why they're unhappy. [00:18:29] PF: There's an organization called Ruling Our eXperiences and they deal with how social media affects young girls. And one of the things that they found is how greatly it – as you had talked about the eating disorders. But it said it also is leading to mental health things like suicidal ideation. And it's become more accepted among teenage girls to go to that place. We didn't have that issue growing up. You didn't think these kids are picking on me, I'm going to go kill myself. And I've seen things recently where there was like an 8-year-old boy that committed suicide after being bullied. And it's just online. And it's just astounding to me that these things are filtering through to our children. Those are the outcomes that we're getting because they somewhere are getting the message that that's the only way out. [00:19:18] DH: Yeah. It's tragic. And we do know – we do know that there's more suicidal ideation comes along. But the question is, for me, it's always is it just that people are talking about it more? Or is it actually new? And then when you start looking like an 8-year-old, thank God, that's a huge outlier. But it's not as taboo to talk about as it was when I was growing up, for sure. It was a really rare occurrence that you heard about it or thought about it. Heard about it at school. It just was not that prevalent. And so, you kind of wonder how much just introducing an idea is part of an issue. Right? But then again, if you don't talk about it, then you can't solve the problem. This stuck. One of the things that I thought was really interesting, and I know I started off this way on social media, was we always want to point at the negatives without pointing at the positives. And I think when we look at generation, we really need to look at the fact that they were hit much harder by the pandemic than any other group. And social media helped get them through that, that isolation sense. [00:20:23] PF: Yes. [00:20:25] DH: But that pandemic I also think significantly contributed in our country overall negative outlook. By social isolation, I mean kids staying home for two years as opposed to going to school. [00:20:38] PF: And this was during key times of development. How does a kindergartner learn social skills if they've been at home for two years? [00:20:47] DH: Right. And then a lot of them, homeschoolings weigh up as a result too. Kids didn't go back to school. They continued their social isolation, which is interesting. Like, "Oh, they could go back to school. But now they're comfortable at home. They don't want to. They don't want to go back out and interact with people." And you hear about people that were at the wrong time in terms of development and they missed their prom, they missed their graduation. They started school. But I'm not as concerned about them. Because that's going to end up being – that was a really sad thing. But you kind of got your social skills by the time you're 16 or 17. But you're right. 10-year-olds are very different. They're not fully socially developed. They haven't figured out how to interact. Doing team projects at school. Just playing on the playground. All that stuff, which decades of research showing how important that stuff is to kids is just gone for a couple years. And they ended up in their little cocoon and their little bubble. And there's fear of social interaction. Learning how to interview for a job, learning how to write a resume, all that stuff that we need to teach not in college. You need to learn how to do that in high school. Well, there were no jobs to go get. You missed that too. There's just so much that they missed. I look back and I'm like I would be so sad if I didn't have that part of my life. And they didn't. [00:22:08] PF: Yeah. Like you said, there's no way to go reclaim that. We don't get a doover starting in 2020. Although, I think we all deserve one. But, yeah, especially the kids. How do we start reaching out? And how do we start creating a different world knowing what they're going through? [00:22:28] DH: Well, I think, first thing, except there's a problem. First of all – and the World Happiness Report is great. There's a problem we have to start talking about. I don't think anyone knows the answers. They kind of know the answers to various smaller issues, like social media intrinsically is not bad. But we should monitor what our children are doing on social media. We should know what they're doing. We should monitor the amount of time. We should balance online interactions with real-world interactions. Don't leave them to their own devices. Don't say, "Oh, well, here – literally device. Here's your iPad and go." In fact, my kids call – probably not a nice word, but they'll call not a nice descriptor. But they'll say that's an iPad kid. Meaning that kid doesn't socially interact. [00:23:14] PF: Wow. That is amazing. That is amazing that it now it actually has that phrase. [00:23:19] DH: It's a negative connotation. And I'm like, "Don't say that." But that's what they mean, "Oh, that's an iPad kid." We as parents need to acknowledge that we're responsible for how much time, and how much interaction, and what they're doing, and knowing what's on. I mean, my kids hate it. But you will keep your find my phone on. Because if I can't find your phone, I can't find you. And if I can't find you and I can't find your phone, you don't need a phone. And I'll know where it's going to be. It's going to be here in the house. Right? But we need to take responsibility and not demonize social media. Because if you tell your kid it's all bad, you don't need to be doing it. You're not telling them the truth. I mean, when we did research for this podcast, as light as it was, being that we're not scientists, but when we did research for this podcast, where did we go? We went online. [00:24:08] PF: Internet. Yeah. [00:24:09] DH: We went to the internet. I mean, the internet's a tool. It's pervasive in their life. Y ou can't take that away. That's not going to work. And social media is part of that tool. I need to do a deep dive into X, Y, Z. And I find a Facebook group that talks about X, Y, Z. It's part – actually, they wouldn't find a Facebook. They'd find an Instagram. But – [00:24:30] PF: Or TikTok. Until it's banned. [00:24:31] DH: Or TikTok. Exactly. But it by itself is not evil or detrimental. But we have to monitor what they're doing. We have to know what they're doing. We have to set limits and boundaries and be parents. And we also need to encourage them to develop face-to-face social skills. Actually, get out and talk to people. Learn how to shake somebody's hand. Learn how to have a conversation. Learn how to interact with somebody who's an adult on a regular basis. But we're not going to fix it by fixing social media. Social media itself doesn't fix it, right? But I do think it all stems back to having the dialogue. Understanding that where the youth go is where we go. This country, the United States, was really built in its current form by the Baby Boomer generation. I mean, I'm Generation X. I'm right behind them. But if you look at everything in our society in general, it's Boomers that are – which is a negative word too. iPad kids and Boomers. It was really built by that generation. And as Millennials and Generation Z move into positions of power and authority, they're going to have control over our economy and over our lives. And what they care about is different than maybe what the Boomers cared about. And acknowledging that, and having dialogue, and caring, and paying attention to what they care about and starting to work on some of those things. I mean, I don't know or care what any listener's position is on global warming. But I will tell you that our generation, our generation Z, they aren't talking about global warming. They're talking about impact, litter, oceans being dirty, air being dirty. They are looking at the whole thing of are we taking care of the Earth. In a way, I think past Generations really didn't. Even though they said that they did. That generation is fully embedded in polar bears are dying. We need to take care of the oceans. And we're missing out on animals that used to exist. And we have too much pollution. And they'll even tell you, "But electrical cars aren't the answer because there's battery parts that are bad for the –" they're looking for answers that they don't have. [inaudible 00:26:56] find them. [00:26:57] PF: Yeah. And I think this this is where it's really – where you talk about social media and the internet having so much purpose. What is done – we used to be so removed at polar bears are dying. But that didn't affect me. Now they're watching a video. They are seeing things in real life. And it affects them profoundly. [00:27:16] DH: It does. And a lot of it has to do with – back to the point that they are emotionally developed but not critically developed, critical thinkers. Has to do with their source. If somebody is attaching great meaning to something, they're incredibly smart, they don't have the cognitive reasoning that jumps in to say, "Is that right?" right away. They can be easily swayed by what they're seeing. And I'll tell you one thing that drives me crazy is advertisers know that. [00:27:45] PF: Yes. [00:27:45] DH: They know that if they drop that ad into social media and they get an emotional reaction either because it's funny or because – it's not as simple as we were. It's like it was cool. No. They actually make them laugh or they make them cry. They know that whatever it is they're advertising is going to be affiliated with that emotion. They know that. And that there's not necessarily critical thinking to parse that in younger people, in teenagers even. And so, they take advantage of that. We just have to be cognizant of the fact that they don't have straightforward news like we used to have. Just the facts, ma'am. Right? That doesn't exist anymore. They get all of everything that's going on in the world from a million different directions. Some of it's cultivated. Some of it's made up. Some of it's got meaning attached to it. We need to have those offline conversations. And as non-parents, have those offline conversations. Don't just assume it's just going to happen. That somehow these people are miraculously going to figure out that that's not real, or that this is real, or that this isn't important. And know that everything that we're bombarding everybody with, including ourselves, is manipulating us in one way or another. Try not to do that. They need to know that it's going to be okay. And I don't think the way our media is set up, you and I have talked all about, I can't tell you how many times I've said be wary of what you put in your head, my kids, to people we've talked about, Live Happy, you worry what you put in your head. So you start believing it. And they are inundated with stuff that tells them they're less than, that tells them there's something to be scared of. We've got to start balancing that with the other side. There's a lot to hope for. There's a lot of good coming down the pipe. We've got to spend time and energy creating that content. And aren't we lucky that we get to do that for a living, Paula? [00:29:35] PF: I love that. But you know what? I'd also love to hear is what our listeners think. I'd love to hear what they're doing with their children, with other Gen Z. If they want to drop us an email, editor@livehappy.com, and let us know. And let us know what you'd like to hear more on this topic. Because it is a mental health crisis that we've got to resolve. Because it's not going to resolve itself. [00:29:59] DH: Well, and our commitment to our listeners is you're like, "Yeah, you guys have been babbling about the problem. Didn't feel any better today." That's okay. Our commitment to our listeners is we're going to try and get some of the experts out there that are studying this on the podcast. Not next week. We're going to be doing some additional podcasts on this topic in the future. Some more expertise than we have. But it was such a standout moment in the World Happiness Report this year. We felt it was worth talking about. And at least creating the thought or the dialogue where people can say, "Hey, we need to be talking about this." Because we do. We really, really do. I think if you don't know how disenfranchised that generation is feeling right now, you just need to be aware that that's what's going on with them. And we've got a moral obligation to help them find success and find happiness in their lives. And they're not starting from a good spot. [00:30:55] PF: All right. Well, we'll do what we can. We'll start working on it. [00:30:59] DH: All right. You get on that, Paula. [00:30:59] PF: Yeah. I'll put it on my to-do list. But, thank you. Yeah, thank you for having this conversation. As you said, we are going to be talking with some experts about it. Bringing some other people in to really look at specific areas that we can make improvements in. Specific things that we can do. And, again, we'd love to hear from our listeners, editor@livehappy.com. We want to know what you want to hear and what you're. [OUTRO] [00:31:27] PF: That was Live Happy's CEO and Co-Founder, Deborah Heisz, talking with me about Gen Z and mental health. We'd love to hear what you think about this topic. Be sure to drop us a line at editor@livehappy.com and tell us what you think. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. And until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Reclaim Your Personal Power With Dr. Emma Seppälä [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 465 of Live Happy Now. We live in a world that is increasingly chaotic, and this week's guest has a better roadmap for navigating this uncertain territory. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and today I'm sitting down with Dr. Emma Seppälä, a Yale professor, bestselling author, and research scientist, whose new book is, Sovereign: Reclaim Your Freedom, Energy, and Power in a Time of Distraction, Uncertainty, and Chaos. Emma is here to talk about how embracing both our positive and negative experiences and becoming more compassionate with ourselves, can improve our relationships, cultivate greater personal freedom, and even improve our physical health. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:47] PF: Emma, welcome to Live Happy Now. [0:00:49] ES: Thank you, I'm so happy to be here. [0:00:51] PF: It's such an honor to have you on the show. You've done some amazing work already and you have a brand-new book coming out that we're going to talk about, but I really appreciate you taking the time to sit down and talk to us today. [0:01:02] ES: Absolutely. Yes. I'm delighted. [0:01:06] PF: So, your new book is called Sovereign and that's a word we don't hear a lot. It kind of stops you for a moment. So, it takes a little bit of an introduction to understand what is sovereignty and especially for you, you talk about personal sovereignty. Can you explain that to us? [0:01:23] ES: Absolutely. So, my first book was about science of happiness, and there's a lot to share there, as you know, from your podcast. But after – I used all those practices, and I use them still daily. But I realized there was another element that you can be doing all the self-care practices you want. But if you don't have sovereignty, and I'll explain what that is, then you can't get all the way there. What do I mean by that, you can meditate all day, but if you are highly self-critical, and buy into fears and beliefs about yourself, that are not serving you, and engage in behaviors and addictive habits that are destructive, then you're not going to be able to attain the level of fulfillment that you wish, nor are you going to be able to show up as your best self. So, I think it's helpful if I give an example. [0:02:12] PF: Please. Yes. [0:02:13] ES: Yes, I teach audiences. So, I teach executives at the Yale School of Management and I see these highly talented people coming through. When I ask audiences, “How many of you are self-critical”, 90% to 95% of people raise their hand. As you probably know, from psychology, self-criticism is a form of self-loathing. When you think about that for a second, you're like, “Wait a second, 90% to 95% of people are walking around with self-loathing. That's pretty intense.” When you look at the research, self-criticism, as you’re beating yourself up whenever you make mistakes, which most people do, is linked to anxiety, is linked to depression, it's linked to fear of failure, it's linked to less willingness to try again. All of the things that are the opposite of resilience are the opposite of wellbeing. And you've got to wonder, like, I mean, you can wonder where this all comes from. But that that actually doesn't really matter. I mean, it's social conditioning, programming, whatever you want to call it. But the idea is, once we can acknowledge that this is happening, that's when you can have that awareness and step out of it and reprogram yourself, and question the way you've been doing things because research shows when we have a more life supportive relationship with ourselves, that's when we're really going to thrive. So, I often ask people, what do you say to yourself when you make a big mistake? People usually say, “You're such an idiot. Blanc.” Those kinds of words. But then if you ask people, what would you say to your best friend who've made the same mistake? They'll say, “You're okay. Everyone makes mistakes. You're doing great. Don't worry.” Right? [0:03:40] PF: Right. [0:03:41] ES: So, the question is, what's the difference between you and your best friend, there's no difference other than that you live inside different bodies. You got to wonder, so that's where I question some of these beliefs and I call that the bound state, because that binds us. It's like we have like an inner terrorist living inside of us and that is not allowing us to show up at our full potential. The majority of people on their deathbeds regret not living the life they wanted. Let's not be one of those people. [0:04:09] PF: Yes. I love this because I know people who don't understand why the practices aren't working for them. It's like, but I practice gratitude, and I practice, I want to forgive people and I try these different things, try to take these steps toward joy. I practice kindness and it's just not getting them quite there. This is kind of like tilling the soil, to make the – plant the seeds that will really be able to grow and make those practices bloom. [0:04:38] ES: Absolutely. So, one other example is I have a whole chapter on the mind, and so many of us don't realize that we are conditioning our minds all day long with the information we're taking, and we're taking in over 60,000 gigabytes of information across all our media channels every day, which is enough to crash a small computer in a week. I mean – [0:04:56] PF: Oh, my gosh. That’s overwhelming. [0:04:58] ES: It’s overwhelming. When you think about it, so what is it that we're taking in? And are we aware of what we're taking in, and the impact it's having on us? If you're constantly taking in, let's say, news, you're conditioning yourself for fear and anxiety. If you're constantly taking in, if you're just doom scrolling, and looking at accounts that are making you want to buy something, or making you feel like you're not attractive enough, or whatever the other things, many things that evoke desire are ways that we're conditioning our mind for anxiety, for depression. Many of us are not aware of everything we're taking in, and what the quality of our mind that ensues. So, you are what you eat is also true of your mind. One of the things I'm inviting people to do is okay, what are you conditioning your mind with? Of course, the mind is also conditioned by everything else, it's received, like, for example, that the self-loathing is something that is passed down in families and societies. Yes, I mean, there's so much more to say. I mean, trauma is obviously also something that everybody, most people have to deal with a certain level of it and that's a form of mind conditioning. There are ways that we can help ourselves to become aware of state of our mind and what we can do about it, to have a more sovereign mind. [0:06:11] PF: This is such a huge topic and I look at all the different silos that it affects when you talk about, we're being programmed, we have our own internal cues that we're giving ourselves. How did you even start mapping out what all needed to be included in this? What you needed to address, and then how did you research this? Because it is a massive, massive, and it's not something that I've seen touched on a lot. [0:06:37] ES: Thank you, Paula. This doesn't sound very scientific. But it does, in some sense that I feel like this book came to me. Actually, when we look at research on creativity, we get our ideas. Those aha moments often come in times when we're in meditation, or when we're in this alpha wave, brainwave state. I feel like this book came to me, and I had it all mapped out in my mind. Of course, also, was my own experience. I went through my own experience of feeling like, “Wow, I'm applying all the happiness principles, but I'm still in this bound state and I had like a major health issue.” I realized, “Well, there are certain beliefs, there are certain habits, and things that we engage in that can bind us, regardless.” Like I said earlier, of the practices we're doing. So, the book really mapped itself out in my own mind, and each chapter could be a book on its own. In fact, I've had early readers read it and be like, “Oh, well, I'm not going to write a book about this whole topic that you address in one chapter.” I have one chapter on intuition, which doesn't sound scientific, but there's research on it. Neuroscience research, the military is doing research on it and there's really interesting findings. One of my colleagues was like, “Well, my next book is about intuition, because I read your chapter.” So, you could go so deep and this is sort of an introduction to sovereignty, I think. And then readers can explore the topic further as it applies to them. [0:07:56] PF: How does it specifically fit in this time we live in? Fifteen years ago, it wouldn't land the way that it lands today. So, can you talk about this, why this is a book that is really a book of our times? [0:08:10] ES: We live in a time of hyper-distraction, and to the point where there's so much coming at us that sometimes it's hard to know what we think, who we are, and what we believe, because there is so much and it's a sailing on our senses. And it's a sailing on our mind, and we know that the quality of our life depends on the state of our mind, right? You could be in traffic and still be happy. Or you could be on a desert, on a beautiful – Hawaii or something and be unhappy. It's all about state of our mind. This is a time also where there's just chaos. There's chaos outside, there's chaos on the globe, there's distraction, like crazy through, all of our media channels, different messaging, who knows what to even – what to align with. In a sense, we can so easily lose our footing with regard to our state of mind or state of being and a lot of people are struggling. There are also countless forms of addictive distractions to help us feel better, right? Whether it's – anyway, I'm not just talking about the regular alcohol and drugs. There's – [0:09:12] PF: We’ve progressed past that. [0:09:14] ES: Yes. There's so much now. There's so much and so many people profiting from that and so many businesses run off of them many ways. Even some people it's like, “Well, they're overworking or over exercising or you whatever it is.” I think a lot of people feel lost. [0:09:31] PF: It's like we're bombarded with so much but our lives feel empty. There's such a dichotomy there. But it's like there's so much coming at us and coming at us and we don't really drink in the nutrients that we need for a healthy life, emotional, healthy life. [0:09:48] ES: I love how you just said that, Paula. That's exactly right. So, this book is an invitation to become aware of the many different ways in which we are being bombarded, in which we are standing in our own way without realizing, and waking up to the fact that we have a choice, and what are some things we can do to reclaim the life that we want to live, how we want to live it. Ideally, in the fullest expression of ourselves and to how to navigate these times. [0:10:15] PF: Can you talk about where someone starts? Does it start with identifying where we're at? And then deciding what you need? Or how do we start reclaiming that personal sovereignty? [0:10:25] ES: So, I do include a lot of tools in the book, because I remember this, there was so much talk about self-love at some point, and you kind of felt like, what the heck is that? How do you even do that? As a scientist, I like to keep things really pragmatic. My first chapter is actually about sovereign self. Sovereign self, sovereign emotion, sovereign mind, sovereign relationship, sovereign intuition, and so forth, sovereign body. But I start with sovereign self because of that, like I said earlier, that state of self-loathing that most people are in, and that we don't even realize. I think one of the first steps to sovereignty is becoming aware of how we treat ourselves, and also having – but in order to build that self-awareness, a practice I really encourages meditation, which is now no longer – which is now popular, thanks to research that my colleagues and I did, and we've done some of that research. But I think for a lot of people, meditation is still a strain. Because when there's anxiety and you sit to meditate, it's really hard. So, I think a lot of people have tried meditation and kind of feel like, “It doesn't work for me.” We actually conducted research on breathing. For veterans with trauma, those are my original studies that we ran, because there was such high levels of anxiety that sitting and meditating was not an option. I can relate to that, because I was in New York City during 9/11 and I tried eating after that, and it was just not going to work for me. What worked was a breathing practice called SKY Breath Meditation. Then 10 years later, and I’m working with veterans with trauma, and again, they were falling through the cracks with regards to therapy and pharmaceutical approaches. Then meditation, the mindfulness studies were not working out at the time in the VA that I was in because they were, again, when you have high anxiety, sitting and closing your eyes is just more anxiety provoking. So, we wanted to see, “Well, maybe this breathing practice that I learned all those years go through to that non-profit called Art of Living.” I thought maybe we can work with them, to see if we can work the veterans. We did, and it was really amazing to see how using your breath, you can really reprogram your nervous system. In a sense, and again, actually the nonprofit that we worked with is called Project Welcome Home Troops and they offer this breathing for veterans, military, active, and their families. But what's really interesting to me, as I call it, and Paula, tell me, if you agree on this, that psychology is such a top-down approach. It's like all about change your thoughts, change your life. Right? [0:12:50] PF: Right. We want that simple, like, “Okay, but where do I start? I'm anxious, I don't have time to sit down and read a book. Tell me what to do.” And we can take a breath. You can learn to take a breath. I know that breathing is just a lifesaver. I remember being told when I was going through a very difficult time in my 30s, and someone said, “Paula, just breathe.” I thought, “That's stupid.” Then I breathed, and it's like, okay, and that saying just sticks in my head forever. Like, “Paula, just breathe.” That's that trigger, when I get anxious is like, just breathe. And it does, it changes everything for people. [0:13:29] ES: Changes everything. And it was the most moving research study I've ever run, because the veterans were at risk for taking their own lives and they said, “Thanks for giving me my life back.” And I thought, “Wow, something so simple, and yet so powerful.” In fact, yes, this week, actually, just this very week, I'm actually teaching someone who grew up as an enslaved person in Nepal, working in the sweatshops. I just met her a couple of days ago. In fact, I talk about her in my book in the introduction. She said, “Can you teach me?” It's making a huge difference. It's like, wow, I wish all people and all children and like – imagine everyone learns at 18. There goes your childhood trauma. Move on, sovereign. [0:14:12] PF: There you go. We'll get right back to my conversation with Emma. [MESSAGE] [0:14:15] PF: But I wanted to take a moment to remind you that Mother's Day is just around the corner. If you're still trying to figure out the right gift for your mom, why not give her the very thing you took from her when you were born? Sleep. Sleep is so important to your physical and mental health and one way to get better sleep is with luxurious bedding from Cozy Earth. I recently discovered their incredible super soft bamboo sheets and I'm telling you, this is the easiest way to give your mom an incredible night's sleep. Their temperature-regulating bedding means it doesn't matter if she runs hot or cold. She's going to enjoy a fabulous night of sleep while enjoying the ultimate and comfort and indulgence. This is truly a gift that keeps on giving and even better, we're going to give you a discount so you give her the luxury she deserves with Cozy Earth. Head over to cozyearth.com and use the promo code happy 35 for an exclusive 35% off. That's cozyearth.com and use the promo code happy 35. Now, let's hear more from Dr. Emma Seppälä. [INTERVIEW CONTINUES] [0:15:19] ES: SKY Breath MEDITATION is a really powerful protocol. But what it showed us is that just as you can train your muscles to be strong for you to go out in the world, you can train your nervous system to be more resilient to stress by conditioning it and to be more in that parasympathetic mode. It's stress resiliency and that's what I love. [0:15:38] PF: Yes. That's such an important step. Then what about with all this self-loathing and self-criticism? What's so interesting, because it can be self-critical, but I've never thought of it as self-loathing. I just thought, I'm just mean to myself sometimes. So, when you frame it like that, that gives you a whole different perspective. So, how do people go about correcting that? Because that's a huge part of creating that better relationship with ourselves. [0:16:03] ES: Well, first, you have to want to. It's shocking how many people really relate to – well, I have to be critical of myself, because I'm so X, Y, Z. It's like, “Says who?” Right? So, I think one way that can shock you into paying attention to this is when I was postpartum with my second child, my first child was three, and he heard me saying something out loud, like, “I just can't do this.” Regarding parenting. Someone was screaming. I was like, “I just can't – I'm not good at this.” I said something like that. And then a few days later, when he messed up at something, I heard him say the same words. Sometimes you need a shock like that, like, “Oh, really? Are you going to pass this on? You're going to pass the self-loathing onto your child? Really? Is that what you want for your child?” Sometimes something like that. Because it most definitely has been passed on in our families, in our societies, in our culture. If you're a woman, even more so. What does it do? It disempowers you. It takes away your sovereignty, and you have to decide, “Wait a second, do I don't want this for me, let alone for my child? Or do I want to live the life that I want?” There's that. But that’s like, “Well, how do you do it?” I want to break this down in the most practical way possible. Is that throughout the day, just tuning in, and instead of asking, “Am I good enough?” Which so many people ask themselves. Am I good enough to be a spouse? Am I good enough to be doing the work I'm doing or whatever it is, right? Asking what's good for me right now? What do I need right now? Tuning in a couple times a day, especially when you're feeling stressed, or you're feeling tension. Just what do I need right now? I can tell you that right before this podcast. This morning, I had some different, like, other PR stuff that I'm doing to the book and I tuned in, after lunch, I tuned in like, wow, it's been a lot today. I have an inbox overflowing with people emailing me, again, because I haven't responded to their email and I should be doing that, but I didn't. I went on that couch and I meditated. That’s what I needed to do. What do I need right now? That allows me to then show up for you, Paula, but also, for me to show up for me, in a way that I have taken care of my nervous system. So, sometimes just training yourself to ask that. Sometimes you might need a nap. Sometimes you might need, if you don't have any time, you just have five minutes. But what are you doing in those five minutes? Are you doing scrolling? Or you can take five minutes to go outside and just breathe some fresh air, or pet your dog, or whatever it is. Just a few minutes. In those few minutes are you doing something nourishing for yourself and keeping it really practical? Are you getting enough sleep at night? Are you eating enough? Are you eating quality? Little things like that. But I often think like when you have a child, you're constantly aware, “Oh, wow, they haven't had any water in like four hours if you're aware.” Constantly, like, “Oh, my gosh. If they don't eat soon, they're going to have a meltdown. But we don't do that for ourselves. So, it's a little bit like training that, training that awareness inward. [0:19:03] PF: How do, especially women, get past the idea that self-care is selfish? Because even though we know it's not, we can tell each other it's not – there are still a lot of times that little bit of guilt like, “Man, I shouldn't be taking this time for myself when I still have laundry to do. I have this to do. I've got places I need to be.” So, how does someone get past that and recognize the importance of that self-care both physically and emotionally? I [0:19:30] ES: I mean, this is such a – I mean, scientifically speaking, I can definitely share with you that when you take care of yourself, you show up with more emotional intelligence. So, you're able to enact more successfully with others. You show up with a – so you're going to have better relationships, whether it's at work or at home. You're going to make better decisions. You're going to think more clearly. You're going to remember things better. You're going to be more efficient in what you're doing because you're going to be more present with what you're doing. So, in a sense, if you want to be successful, you doing self-care is going to help you. But it's also going to help others because we all know what it feels like to be around someone who's stressed and burned out. It makes us feel stressed and burned out. Someone who's stressed and burned out is also more likely to fly off the handle, and to be even hurtful ways. Oftentimes, our inability to take care of ourselves makes us hurt the people we love the most and want to hurt the least. So, it's not selfish. It's absolutely essential. If you want to – just for the people around you, if not for yourself. [0:20:37] PF: Yes. So, it's really an investment in not just yourself, but in your working relationships, in your personal relationships. It's improving that for everybody. [0:20:47] ES: Absolutely. Then, when you go to sleep at night, you don't regret something you did or said, right? When you have greater self-care, you're going to be more mindful. You're going to be more thoughtful. You're going to be more perceptive. You're actually going to see more things. Our research shows that when you're stressed, you’re tunnel-visioned. When you’re taking care of yourself and are in the sort of calmer space, you're able to perceive more things, which is when you think about it, whether you're a parent or leader, or whatever you're doing. Being able to perceive more things and think from a broader perspective, is going to make you a lot more successful at what you're doing. [0:21:23] PF: Yes. When you invest in that strong personal relationship with yourself, how have you seen it change people? You've done so much research on this. When they really do make a personal relationship their priority, what does that do for them? [0:21:37] ES: What happens is that they become more successful in everything that they're doing. In their relationships, in their marriage, in their –why is it that marriages are so strained when there's little kids, right? It's because both parents have a hard time doing the self-care. Really, the relationship could be just fine, if everyone had time to sleep, to eat, and a few minutes to just be by themselves, right? That applies for the rest of our lives. So many people might not have little kids, and yet, are straining themselves by overworking, not sleeping enough, not taking care of their mind or body, their sleep, et cetera. Then, they're suffering, and so are the people around them. [0:22:17] PF: So, if someone reads this, and they start making this change, and they make it not just for themselves, they pass that on with their family, and then their friends start making that change. How does this start reshaping the way that we move through the world? Because as you've mentioned, we're inundated with too much information, too much stress, too much negativity. How can we change that? [0:22:39] ES: Well, I think that once people start making more sovereign choices with regard to themselves, and how they live, it can change society, and it can change families and society, and help us to navigate this world in a way that we actually live the life we want to live in accordance with who we really are, and most importantly, we can live in a way that fully expresses the gifts that we have. [0:23:04] PF: That's fantastic. [0:23:05] ES: Yes. I mean, I'm just thinking now of a story that someone shared about his son, who has been so addicted to screens since he was about five years old. But he's now 18, and unable to really focus on anything and sits in his car, and drains his car battery, because he's scrolling through his phone for hours. When you think about that, and that boy who has undoubtedly his own very unique gifts, and how he has been completely bound up by what the technology has done to him. Now, other things may be going on there as well. But we all have our own beautiful, sovereign potential, and are we going to choose to live it? Are we going to choose to model it for others and for our children? That's for us to do and the potential is huge to make this world a better place. [0:23:50] PF: Yes. I think what's so wonderful with your book is it kind of gives us the path to get there, and the hope that we can get there, and through ways that might be more simple than we thought. Not easy, necessarily, but simple. Two of the things that you talked about that I really want you to touch on before I let you go is like elevation and forgiveness. So, can you tell us about what each of those means and why they're so important? [0:24:17] ES: Yes. Whenever you see someone helping another person, it can be very moving to see that, whether you're out in the street, seeing someone helping another person, it's very inspiring and moving. That's a state we call elevation. Psychologists call elevation. What's really interesting about that is that when you see someone helping someone else, you are then more likely to go and help someone else. What the research shows is that whenever one person acts with compassion or engages in acts of kindness, it actually ripples out to three degrees of separation away from them. So, when they do an act of kindness and the onlookers are impacted, and so are two degrees away. Let's say you do a kind act for a work colleague, and then someone else sees you. You're impacting that person's sister’s brother-in-law or whatever. That ripple effect is happening so often, especially in this world that's so chaotic and crazy right now. We think, “Oh, who am I? What difference do I make?” You don't even know the ripple effect that every micro-moment of kindness, the joke you share with the person at their cash register, the kind gesture you do for your neighbor, the kind words you share with your kid’s teacher or whatever. You don't know the ripple effect of goodness that happens. That, to me, gives a lot of hope. Because each one of us can make an enormous difference, without even knowing it, and everybody does. That's one thing. Then, with regard to forgiveness, it can sound so sappy. Yet when you look at the data, forgiveness has nothing much to do with the person you're forgiving. Everything to do with you. Because when you forgive research shows that it literally lightens your load. You literally can jump higher after you've forgiven someone. This research has been done. Just showing just how heavy a load it is to not forgive or to live in resentment. Living in resentment is kind of like punishing yourself for what someone else did. Living in anger, it's like, because you're the one reaping the health benefits, and we know for example, that anger has health impact on your heart health. So, people who tend to hold on to anger or resentment tend to have heart issues. When you're forgiving, you're not only unburdening the other person, possibly, if they know or they don't know. But your own blood pressure reduces, and you're able to move on with much better mental health and well-being. So, forgiveness is really for yourself. [0:26:41] PF: On that note too, self-forgiveness is super important. Because as you've noted, we're self-critical and we can also beat ourselves up for years about things that we did, that maybe nobody else even remembers. You're a wonderful researcher and scientists. How do you discover self-forgiveness? [0:27:01] ES: That's such a good question. Whenever I feel the guilt coming up, often it's around my children. It’s like, “I wish I did this.” I just breathe through it and I bring myself back to the present moment, and I'm like right here, right now. I can always – I'm doing my best right here right now and I did the best that I could then. I think that's one of the mantras, self-compassion mantras I used, I still use, doing the best that I can. [0:27:26] PF: That's wonderful. You have so many tools and guides within this book to help people understand and achieve that personal sovereignty. I'm really excited to see what happens as it reaches the world. You also have some wonderful bonus tools that you're offering people, and so we're going to give links to all of that on our landing page. But what is it, you've poured yourself into this book, you've poured your work into this book, what is it that you hope people take away from it? [0:27:54] ES: I hope people take away that they have a choice as to how they want to live, how they want to manage their minds and their relationships, and that they have the option to live a very fulfilled, happy life in which they can live in the fullest expression of themselves, that they have that for permission. Because sometimes I think we've forgotten that we can do that. If people remember that they have their own gifts to fully express and that they can and have permission to do that, it's going to make their life more fulfilled, but they're also going to become a gift for everyone who meets them. [0:28:29] PF: I love that. If you're not doing it for yourself, do it for those around you, right? [0:28:32] ES: Mm-hmm. [0:28:33] PF: Well, Emma, such a pleasure to talk to you, really excited to see this book come out, as I said, and we're going to tell our listeners where they can find it, where they can order it, how they can get those free bonuses. Thank you again. Thank you again for sitting down with me. [0:28:47] ES: Thank you, Paula. Lots of pleasure. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:28:53] PF: That was Dr. Emma Seppälä, talking about how sovereignty can help us improve our relationships with ourselves and those around us. If you'd like to learn more about Emma or her new book, Sovereign: Reclaim Your Freedom, Energy, and Power in a Time of Distraction, Uncertainty, and Chaos, or follow her on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Live Happy Now, and if you aren't already receiving us every week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think. That is all we have time for today. We’ll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: How Happiness is Changing in the U.S. With Dr. Lara Aknin [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 461 of Live Happy Now. Last week, the annual World Happiness Report was released. This week's guest is helping break down what it all means. I'm your host Paula Felps. Today, I'm talking with Dr. Lara Aknin, a distinguished professor of psychology at Simon Fraser University and one of the editors of the World Happiness Report. She's here to tell us why the US fell out of the top 20 happiest countries for the first time since the report has been published, which age group is thriving in the US, and talk about why our young people are struggling right now. She also shares some really encouraging findings about well-being and dementia, as well as how benevolence is changing worldwide. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:49] PF: Lara, thank you for joining me today on Live Happy Now. [00:00:53] LA: Thank you for having me. [00:00:54] PF: Every year, this is such a big time for us because the World Happiness Report comes out. We dig into it, and we try to cover it the best that we can. So I appreciate you sitting down and talking about it. How long have you been involved in working with the report? [00:01:08] LA: I have been involved for about five years now, back in 2019 I believe it was. My memory since COVID is a little fuzzy, but I believe it was 2019. My colleagues and I contributed a chapter to the World Happiness Report on some of the research we do regarding kindness and happiness. Then shortly after that, I was invited to join the editorial team. [00:01:28] PF: Nice, nice. Such an important report and we learn new things every year. For those who don't know, the report has certain themes it covers every year. Then it'll kind of branch out and do other subtopics every year. One thing they talked about this year was age and happiness. I wanted to know if you had any insight into why they decided to look at that topic. [00:01:53] LA: There are lots of reasons. One major one is that there's this burst of new research looking at some really interesting ideas and questions. So you'll see one of the chapters in this year's report written by Dr. Emily Willroth and her colleagues, I think, presents some of this really groundbreaking research, trying to understand not necessarily actually the predictors of happiness across the lifespan but the consequences of happiness for really important outcomes like dementia. Their chapters kind of split broadly into two parts, but one of the parts that I find so intriguing and then so excited about is how happiness or life satisfaction and well-being might be a protective factor against dementia. As a huge subset of the population is aging, all of us eventually, hopefully will. There's no known cure for dementia. This seems like one very important meaningful way in which we can intercept and perhaps improve the lives for many people. The new research is one key reason that it was – we chose to focus on this year's report on aging and happiness. But the other is the availability of data. One of the main sources, one of the incredible sources of information we draw upon for the World Happiness Report is the Gallup World Pole, which for those listeners who don't know is probably the most representative sample of planet Earth. So it's not just convenient samples drawn from wealthy nations, but it's individuals from rich and poor countries. They go out of their way to reach those who we might not be able to reach otherwise. Now, there are almost two decades worth, I believe, of data that allow us to look back and see these not only trends in happiness over time but allows us to try to tease apart some of the cohort effects from age effects, which is really exciting and promising for getting a closer look into what's going on in happiness across the lifespan. [00:03:38] PF: They touched on so many different things. As an editor, I wondered if there was anything that stood out to you about age and happiness on a global sense, as you were working on the project. [00:03:49] LA: Yes. There are a couple notable findings, and the report is so rich with so much information. I encourage your listeners to go have a look. There's so much to be seen. But two things that jump out at me that I think are kind of remarkable across the data sets and the information presented is, first and foremost, that around the world looking at global data, the happiness is highest among the young, so those under 30. Then begins to drop and remains relatively consistent over the rest of one's life. Now, that's looking at global data, which is really interesting. But get a little bit more interesting and sometimes unfortunate when you drill down into specific world regions. One that I think might be of particular interest to perhaps many listeners is that in North America, particularly in Canada and the United States, the young have started rating their life satisfaction quite a bit lower. In fact, it is one of the only world regions in the world where the young are less happy than the old. That is kind of an interesting point of complexity and intrigue and, for many, I imagine some concern. That is one fascinating finding. [00:04:54] PF: I was completely astonished to see that because in our case of people under the age of 30 in the US ranked 62nd. To put that in perspective, Russia is 68th. Young people in Russia are not that much more unhappy than young people in the US. Do we know what is driving that? [00:05:16] LA: That is a really important question. It’s a complex answer, as you might imagine. But, yes, if I can just pause and highlight what I think is so noteworthy here, which is that, yes, within the United States, older individuals, so those 16 above, are rating their lives much better. I believe there's over a 50 ranking gap between older adults in the United States compared to those under 30. There's something pretty unique going on here with the younger individuals. Why is this going on is a difficult thing to kind of parse, right? These data sets, the complexity and the size of them give us a huge snapshot of what is going on. But the challenge of that is that there are so many moving pieces. It's hard to pinpoint one exact explanatory feature. That being said, some of the authors of chapter two in the report, Dr. John Helliwell and Haifang Huang have done some deep dives to try to understand what's going on. There's a little bit of traction in understanding. In particular, what these two and their co-authors have found is that adults under 30, so Americans under 30, are reporting some interesting differences to compare to those who were 30 several decades ago, so those who were 30 in the early 2000s and up to 2010. In particular, those under 30 these days are reporting less support from their friends and family than did earlier cohorts. They're also reporting less freedom to make life choices, more stress and anxiety, but not more anger, less confidence in the government, greater perceptions of corruption. Another important one is feeling less satisfied with their living situation. I think although incomes are not necessarily especially low, I think they're stagnating relative to the cost of living. So that might be a point of frustration or stress and anxiety for some younger Americans under 30. It seems to be this cocktail of predictors that are associated with lower levels of well-being among those under 30 and different from those that were reported about a decade and a bit ago. [00:07:23] PF: At the same time, those young people are – the report shows that those young people are more benevolent. They're more altruistic, which is so interesting that they would be dissatisfied because one thing we talk about quite a bit on Live Happy Now is how – and you would know this about practicing kindness and acts of altruism. Those increase our satisfaction. That, to me, was just a striking disparity that we have this generation that's more giving, more altruistic, but they're also more dissatisfied. [00:07:56] LA: Exactly. That was going to be my other notable thing. It's always a silver lining for me. Or a really fascinating spotlight in the report is this increase, this upshoot in benevolence, especially since COVID, since pre-COVID years. You're right. Across all three metrics of benevolence that are captured in the Gallup World Poll data, which is helping a stranger, donating to charity, and volunteering. Each of these are relatively high across the board. They're higher post-COVID than they were before COVID. There don't seem to be whopping generational differences in this. If anything, we're seeing the young being equally, in most cases, benevolent across the board. They're more likely to help a stranger and less likely to donate. That might be partially because they just have lower levels of income. But you're right. Benevolence doesn't seem to be the explanatory factor. One might wonder if this is even buffering or supporting their well-being that these differences reported might be even more extreme if these weren't the actions people were taking. I just want to point out, though, that those benevolence ratings are global, and the findings that we're talking about here are within the United States. So I don't know exactly the benevolence levels within the United States, but that would be an interesting question to drill down upon. [00:09:07] PF: The report does an excellent job of parsing out this information, but what it doesn't do and intentionally is say, “Here's the cure.” We get a lot of information, and I think that's what a lot of us want to know is like, wow, if our young people are that unhappy, what is it that we can do about it? As you mentioned, there are several factors driving this, so it's not this small ship that we can just turn on a dime. As people who are not in our 30s and younger, what do we do? How do we start helping support young people and changing the way that they feel? [00:09:45] LA: That's a really important question. Like you say, I don't know if there's a perfect solitary answer to this. I think there's a lot to be considered in part because some of these may be societal changes, right? Concerns, for instance, about less freedom to make life choices and concerns about corruption and less trust in government would be hard for any caring friend or family member to interject upon and maybe change things. It's possible perhaps that there might be other pathways that are a little bit more tractable, so for instance, the support from friends and family. Interestingly, I believe some of the data suggest that these individuals are not necessarily receiving less contact, if you will, from friends and family but perhaps feel like they're not receiving enough. Or at least they're less satisfied with the support from friends and family. One perhaps avenue or strategy for support might be to have some very open conversations with the younger adults in your life and kind of see how they're doing. Perhaps find ways to offer additional support. There might be other factors. I mean, it's hard to support someone's satisfaction with their living conditions. I mean, that's not an easy way to just step in and change. Some of these may be more systematic or societal-level concerns. I’m not saying that this is out of our reach, but I think there's a lot of conversation to be had about which ways to kind of step in and support adults under 30. [00:11:09] PF: Do you think knowing this that now we are going to do that, now that we are aware of this situation is becoming more dire? Do you think there's a community starting with a scientific community that shares this information? Then are we going to start saying, okay, we need to enact some change, some real change in the world to make this better? [00:11:28] LA: I remain overoptimistic. I think one of the main thrusts and the rationales for the World Happiness Report is to present some of this leading evidence on the science of happiness to the public and also to policymakers and individuals who are concerned about the well-being of their constituents and their community members and their neighbors. The hope is that by bringing some hard science to this question to delineate and demonstrate the trends over time and shine a spotlight on those who perhaps are not thriving or doing as well as we would have hoped can direct attention to those areas. There's always a lot of discussion. There are many governments that are trying to pay attention to these well-being reports. I know many governments are starting to ask these questions regarding life satisfaction and well-being in their census data. I think that's a step in the right direction. But as you'll see in chapter I believe it's three of this year's report, which is focused on the youth, there is actually not as much data as we would like to grapple with some strong insights, especially in developing nations. A lot of the evidence is lacking, and so that raises some questions about how people who perhaps are really struggling are not even being assessed and observed. I think that we're certainly making strides, but I think we're far from perfect data and perfect insights on how to address this. [00:12:41] PF: I think that's one thing the World Happiness Report does is every year, we talk about it. Then it's in the spotlight. It's in the news. Then it kind of, uh, slips out. That’s why I love the fact that it comes out every year. It doesn't let us forget that, hey, we still have – this is an important thing. Happiness is an important indicator, and we need to be studying it, looking at it, and figuring out what's going on in our world. [00:13:05] LA: I think it's important because happiness isn't just the absence of negative emotions. It's more than that. I think there's – as chapter four in this year's report nicely illustrates, these protective factors matter a lot. It's not just this wishy-washy vague sense of well-being that we can hope for, but that it matters for some of these really consequential outcomes, even beyond the fact that we care about our own and our neighbor’s well-being. It predicts some really mean meaningful hard outcomes. I think it helps, like you say, shine a spotlight on some of these important pressing issues. [00:13:37] PF: We've talked about the not-so-great news with the young people but great news with the boomers. US is number 10 among the age group, the baby boomer age group for happiness. That's incredibly good news. That means we're doing great in terms of people, what is that, from 1964? [00:13:55] LA: Yes. I think it – yes. I think you're right. I think you're right. I think it's 1964. Yes. [00:14:01] PF: Why? Why? [00:14:03] LA: I think we know less about that. I mean, part of it is I think although objectively boomers have, I think, less in the way of social contact, I think that there is a greater satisfaction with it. That is one memory I have from reading this report multiple times. But I don't think we have never done a drill down among the older boomers in the United States or even the boomer generation just globally to figure out what is exactly the unique predictors there. What we do know is that countries that rank highly among the older boomer generation tend to be those that are ranked more highly overall but to be in the top 20 and certainly among the top 10 and 15. I think the United States is an interesting case where the happiness of the young, those under 30, is really [inaudible 00:14:48] the average ranking of the United States because these adults under 30 are reporting significantly lower levels of life satisfaction. Yes, for the first time in a number of years, the United States has dropped out of top 20. I think the boomers are what's elevating the ranking, but the young are what is dropping it down. [00:15:06] PF: That's interesting. When I first started covering this, we were at number 13. Then it was 50. It’s like – [00:15:13] LA: I mean, we don't have any measurement of this but some. It might have to do with political tensions or divisions in growing levels of income inequality but also well-being inequality that is mentioned a bit in chapter two of the report. But it is also, I think, those societal, political level factors in the United States might be contributing perhaps especially. Who knows? This remains to be tested. Perhaps might be shifting the well-being of the young or influencing the well-being of the young perhaps more so. [00:15:43] PF: Well, does what drives happiness in older populations differ from what drives happiness in younger age groups? Is that part of it at all? [00:15:52] LA: It certainly could be. I don't think chapter two includes any analyses that would answer that question specifically. I mean, many of the – because it's a global report with so much data, usually the focus is on looking for commonalities, not differences across the world but also across the ages. But I don't think there was any analysis that looked at whether, for instance, social relationships was a greater predictor of well-being amongst the old versus the young. That's a really intriguing question. There are some interesting psychological theories that might bring to bear on this question. I'm happy to mention them, but I don't know if it – they weren't tested directly in the report. So you can let me know if that's a – [00:16:31] PF: Yes, go ahead. I'd love to hear it. [00:16:33] LA: Sure. Laura Carstensen has this really fascinating theory arguing that when we're young, time seems expansive. Normally, people prioritize these kind of efforts to go out to search for unique new experiences. People prioritize having usually a diverse set of friends, a diverse set of experiences because it's all about learning and trying new things. It's like this very exploratory mindset. Then as people get older and people start to realize that time is not infinite, instead of taking this purely exploratory approach as they navigate the world, they prioritize things that are particularly meaningful and valuable and positive to them. How this matters, for instance, for predictors of happiness but also for relationships might be instead of trying to maintain dozens of different friend groups, people might prioritize these three, four individuals, these three or four networks in their lives that tend to bring them the most joy and meaning and whatever it is they prioritize. This theory suggests that the predictors of happiness may vary slightly as a function of age. Generally speaking, most people derive a lot of joy from helping others, from being with others. But who exactly are those others may differ, right? When you're 18 and starting college, that might be trying everything there is. When you're 75, that might be your closest friends. Social relationships might matter across the lifespan, but who are those contributing individuals might vary. [00:17:59] PF: That makes so much sense. To me, it was so interesting that this report really focuses a lot on age because when we look at how aging is portrayed like, “Oh, you're going to be lonely. You're going to be falling apart,” there are so many messages that's negative about aging. When you look at this report, it's really an inspirational read. It shows you that that's not what is going on. Has that actually changed, or has it just been always portrayed incorrectly? [00:18:32] LA: It's important to note it might be inspirational for folks living in North America and Australia, New Zealand, where this trend is happiness generally speaking across the lifespan is on an upward trajectory. But there certainly are world regions where the reverse is true. For instance, in Central and Eastern Europe, I believe that it's a downward trend across the lifespan. There are some notable differences across the globe. Different cultures hold aging in different regards, right? In many Eastern cultures, it's an honor. There's a lot of honor and respect for the elders, whereas that isn't necessarily true across all different nationalities and ethnicities and religious affiliations. So perhaps in North America it's kind of seen like as you get older, you're out of touch. You're falling apart. It might be a lot of negative portrayals. But I don't think that's always the case worldwide. But I agree with you. I think certainly from a North American perspective, especially Canada and the United States, the older adults are reporting their lives as much more aligned with their ideal than are the young. That is perhaps inspirational for many people who are in that generation. [00:19:39] PF: Yes, because we're all headed in that direction. We want to know it's getting better, right? [00:19:44] LA: Hopefully, it's all getting better. Yes, for sure. [00:19:47] PF: Well, there's so much in this report. What is it that you would think that is a takeaway that you hope that everybody would get from sitting down and spending some time with this report? [00:19:59] LA: Well, I think broadly speaking, I think the report does what I think and perhaps I'm very biased here, but I think it does a really great job of showcasing what I think is some of the best science on the question of happiness around the globe and some of the most cutting-edge interesting findings. Details aside for a second, I think the report, hopefully, is a nice demonstration, is a convincing demonstration of where the science of well-being is at and convinces many people that this is not a floofy self-help grounded literature but rather a hard science where people are able to self-report how they feel about their lives and how scientists can try to understand what are these correlates, and how does it track over time, and how does it differ across age and region. Many important variables that help us give some traction on perhaps how to improve the lives of others. I hope, big picture, people walk away with an understanding that this is a hard science and one that we can really sink our teeth into and try to improve the lives of many people with. I think two highlights for me in this report are, one, the benevolence finding that we talked about already. I realized that there are some mixed pictures. There’s a lot of nuance in this report. Looking across the world is always difficult with hundreds of thousands of individuals offering their take on their lives. There's so much data to dig into. Normally, just looking around the globe is complex and nuanced enough. But now to split it by age group and cohort or generation is even more nuanced. But I think the benevolence finding is one of the clearest cut across the globe, which is that there's been this increase in benevolence that it's pretty consistent across the generations. I think while many things can sometimes look a mess in this world and in people's well-being, this is one very rosy optimistic picture showing that people are in perhaps better – higher than we would assume, looking out for one another and helping their neighbors, helping their communities. The other finding that I think is really important and worth showcasing is the findings from chapter four, which is on the dementia findings I mentioned earlier, which is just how all of us are, hopefully, getting older. Unfortunately, dementia is one thing that raises significant challenges for many people who are facing these cognitive impairments. But also for their friends and their family who are trying to help these individuals be well and enjoy their lives, even with this very difficult diagnosis. I think there are some really interesting and important information to bring to bear in this year's report about how well-being and life satisfaction can be a really important protective factor for that. I just think it raises the stakes for some of the – thinking about some of this research. It's not just about feeling good, which I think is motivation enough in itself to care about our own and other’s well-being. But I think it really raises concerns about what it is we want in our communities and our societies and how we take care of each other. [00:22:48] PF: I agree 100%. This was so interesting. Lara, I appreciate you sitting down and talking with me. You really distilled a lot of great information for it. We're going to tell our listeners how they can find the report, how they can digest it. We're going to run some things on our website about it. But thank you for making sense of it for us and taking this time with me today. [00:23:07] LA: My pleasure. Thank you for the invitation. [00:23:12] PF: That was Dr. Lara Aknin, talking about findings from the World Happiness Report. If you'd like to download a full copy of the report, read additional stories about the findings, or learn more about Lara, just visit us at livehappy.com. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Live Happy Now. If you aren't already receiving us every week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Meet Happy Activist Will Thomas and Celebrate the International Day of Happiness [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 460 of Live Happy Now. On March 20th, we celebrate the International Day of Happiness, and that makes this the perfect time to talk to a happy activist. I'm your host, Paula Felps. Today, I'm talking with Will Thomas, who founded Good News Magazine in the midst of the pandemic to give people a break from the steady stream of negative news. What was supposed to be a one-time publication has turned into a growing media brand, and he's here to tell us how that happened. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:36] PF: Will, thank you so much for joining me for Live Happy Now. [00:00:39] WT: Thank you. I'm excited to be able to talk to you about what we're doing. [00:00:42] PF: This is a big week for us at Live Happy because it's the week of International Day of Happiness that actually happens the day after this episode airs. We've been celebrating happiness all month with a campaign we called HappyActs, where we encourage people to go out and do things for other people and build happiness in their communities. From the moment I first heard your story, I knew that I had to get you on the air as a happy activist because you embody this. You saw a need. People complain about we need good news, and you actually went out and did something about it. Tell us your story. [00:01:17] WT: We were in the direct mail shop republication business until two years ago, 2022. It was a great business. We served small businesses in Southern Milling, Tennessee. It’s a family business. Then we loved helping all those companies and had customers for 40 years. It was rewarding. Then COVID happened for a lot of businesses. Our business was under pressure in some elements on the print side. COVID, I think, made those wounds and those risks, highlighted them more. While we were still performing in most of our markets, we knew it wasn't a business we're going to be doing for another 20 years. During COVID in 2021, we had sold ads for the Lincoln County Fair magazine here in Tennessee. The fair got canceled because of COVID, and so we were like, “What are we going to do?” I mean, I guess, selfishly, we didn't want to lose the revenue. It was like – because that was a tough time for revenue, and our team came up with the idea. Well, what if we did something positive? In general, media is pretty negative, [inaudible 00:02:23] news or the 24-hour news cycle. Then during COVID, it was even worse. Everybody seemed worried about things. It just felt all this negative pressure. So we came up with the idea in Lincoln County to feature 20 people in a magazine to tell their stories, how they're positively impacting the community. We did that, published that magazine that fall, and had great feedback from people about the quality of the content and the purpose of it. Six months later, we converted one of our direct mail shoppers to a monthly, and we call it Good News, Good News Magazine. Of course, we know Good News is a generic type term, and it's not – you can't trademark that name for a magazine or anything like that. But we went with that name because we felt like that 100% embodied what we wanted to do. From a reader perspective, I mean, the stories that our team has told and the feedback we've had has been great and definitely the fuel to keep us going. [00:03:21] PF: Because of that response, you ended up not just doing it in that single market. You have now expanded into other markets. I'm an old print person. I'm not that old, but I'm a print person. That's what my background was. We know that starting a print magazine right now, a lot of people would say, “What are you thinking?” But this is working for you. So can you talk about how it is now? It’s spilling over. You're doing other markets that you're entering into. [00:03:45] WT: Right. Yes. Early on when we first launched, so we have eight markets now. Five markets we had direct mail shoppers in, so we had some relationships to help in those markets. Then our three newest markets are Bowling Green, Kentucky; Lebanon, Tennessee, and then Lynch, Virginia. I'm excited about all three of those markets. They’re great communities. I'm proud of the content we put out, both editorial and photography. Then the layout is great. [00:04:10] PF: How do you go about finding the stories because it blows me away? Your magazines are how many pages? It's not like a little 32-page magazine, right? [00:04:18] WT: No, no, no. I think the minimum page count we're running right now would be 64. Around 60, 64 pages is the minimum. The stories, from day one, we've wanted them reader-generated. It's reader-generated, community-generated stories. We have publishing partners in all our markets who are the face of the magazine. It's really – they're in the community. It's their magazine for their community, and they look for stories. When they're talking to people in the community, they're always asking. We have this theme coming up. Do you know anybody that's really made a difference in the community we should tell a story on? Then each month, each magazine has six stories. Each year, we're telling 72 stories about people that have made a difference. It doesn't mean we can't tell a story about the flower shop across the street, but we wouldn't tell it about the business entity. We would tell it about the lady that works in the flower shop and the impact she's had on whatever her passion is to give back. It’s been real cool. We've created a pretty loyal readership audience of people that get the magazine because it is unique. Especially in the communities we're in, Bowling Green has a TV station. So they have a little bit bigger media presence in that market. But still, there's nobody in the market addressing the void that we're filling. Or there's very few people in any market doing it. I definitely don't think they're doing it at the quality we are because even – and you've seen the final piece. It's a magazine you put on your coffee table or nightstand, and you let it sit there. It's not something you're going to recycle as soon as you get done reading it. [00:05:50] PF: It's so interesting because you learn things about people in your community you didn't know they were doing. You learn things that are going on that – because in addition to the six profiles on people, you have other stories. Can you talk about your other sections that you have in there? You give other value to the readers as well. [00:06:10] WT: We have a theme each month. They change a little bit year after year, but it's one pretty straightforward to be like an education theme. We focus on educators or first responders. We have veterans. I think one of the ones that's been the most popular is in February, we have one about love. It’s about focus on couples and their life together. That's been cool. To your point, we're telling stories of people that they're the fabric of what makes the community great, but no one's ever told their stories. That's what's cool. I mean, it's a very micro thing, right? We're not – it's not macro and it's definitely hyper local type of content. But for the community, there is no better content because those people are the ones that have made the community great. [00:06:57] PF: Right. With newspapers these days, with them being so large, and they have a section that covers a certain area, a certain community. The way that community is going to get covered is usually not because something good happened. That's not where it comes out. So I would think it kind of changes how people see their community. If they can sit down every month and they're reading all these positive stories of great things people are doing, it takes away that sense of like, “Oh, my God. The world's going to hell in a handbasket.” [00:07:27] WT: Right, I agree. I think the whole newspaper mentality was if it bleeds, it relieves. It’s kind of – that might be back in the seventies and eighties. But that was kind of the mantra. That’s the opposite of what our mantra is. That kind of goes back to what you're saying about you hear these stories you never heard of before. It makes you feel good about the place because you didn't know Sally down the road was making that difference. Or I volunteered that long at the soup kitchen. And same for me, I grew up in the market I'm in today. God, I mean, most of the stories we tell, if I even kind of knew the person, I sure didn't know the story that we've told. [00:08:03] PF: How has it changed you as the publisher to be working in such a positive space? I know, for me, working with Live Happy, it has changed the lens through which I see the world. Now, you're getting to find. You are constantly discovering the good in people. What's that been like for you? [00:08:23] WT: I've always probably leaned toward being an optimist glass-half-full-type person. Before Good News, I guess it was more selfish. It was about our company and about my success and our company's success. What's cool about the Good News is, and you could call this selfish, but it's cool because now our success hinges on telling and making the community, telling positive stories and making the community better. It’s kind of cool that that's what we're putting our effort toward versus trying to make money. We love capitalism and business and trying to figure out how to make money, but the approach that we're able to do it now definitely makes it a little bit more peaceful, if you will, with the type of work we're doing. I mean, because it's gratitude. You're constantly looking at things that make you thankful, which is cool. [00:09:10] PF: It's more of a movement that you've created versus a machine that you're trying to feed. I think that really helps. I think people feel that, too. They receive that. When you look at your magazine, yes, we know it's a business venture but heartfelt. That's the only way I can describe the stories that are in it. They're very heartfelt. So kudos to your editorial team as well. They are very engaged in their storytelling. It feels like each one was written by somebody's son or daughter because it's like that's how much they care. That’s how much praise they have for that person that they're talking to. [00:09:42] WT: Right. One of our head photographers told a story at a company huddle a couple of months ago about one of the things we do in our company huddles is one teammate each month will tell what a typical day is like, just trying to help everybody in the company understand what that person does. She was just talking about the impact, and she didn't realize this when she first joined the team, the impact of the photography that she'd be doing and hearing these people's stories, how impactful it is on her and kind of emotional. Our writers are the same way. We've had a couple that have been with us from day one with the product, and they love what they do, which is great to lead that type of team that's so passionate. It makes my job a lot easier. I don't have to get them passionate. They're just passionate about the product. Yes. They've done a great job. You're right about the content side. I wish I could take more credit for that side, but I really have to give that all to the content team because they've really driven that. [00:10:33] PF: I remember years ago, a mentor told me a good story will always find its audience. That really seems to be what's happening with good news because I think it is. It's going to find its audience, and there is such a need. There's such a desire for positive news, to hear the good in the world. You're doing such a great job of just putting that right in their mailbox. [00:10:54] WT: Our magazines, all stories that are in there are about a person. I said that a little bit earlier, but it's not about a person that put on a gala and about all the people that attended that event. The stories about how people have made a difference and impact on some segment of their community, which is really completely different than anything even that newspapers used to have. The misnomer would be that we're telling good news, and maybe the city's putting in a new gym set for the community. Well, that story would not make it in good news. The story that would make it in good news would be the lady that has been trying to raise money for 20 years because when she grew up, this playground had an impact on her life. Now, she's trying to give back. That maybe would be a story we could tell. I do think we have a – or there is a niche there and definitely an itch we’re scratching in all communities that we're serving. [00:11:48] PF: I would say so. We are going to tell people how they can find you, how they can learn more about you. In the meantime, what do you really want people to take away from this? What do you want people to know about Good News? [00:11:59] WT: I think more for themselves is to find the good in their own communities. I think it's so easy to be negative and pessimistic. But when you live in this country, I think first that it gives you some appreciation when you see what goes on in other parts of the world. Then when you look locally, there's a lot of good and positive things. Just try to focus on the positive a little bit more versus the negative. [00:12:22] PF: That was Will Thomas talking about Good News Magazine. Now, we're bringing in Live Happy's own Laura Coppedge and Casey Johnson to talk about how you can celebrate the International Day of Happiness. Laura and Casey, thank you for joining me today. [00:12:37] LC: Thank you for having us, Paula. [00:12:39] CJ: Yes, thank you. [00:12:40] PF: Well, it's always a treat to get in the same room with you, even if we're not actually in the same room, but we're on the same screen. It's always fun to get together and talk about what we're doing. What we're doing right now is, of course, the International Day of Happiness tomorrow. I wanted to talk to you. Both of you are pros at this, your experience at celebrating. So I wanted to find out how each of you like to celebrate International Day of Happiness. Casey, we'll go alphabetically. We'll start with you. [00:13:08] CJ: All right, yes. Gosh, I can't believe we've been celebrating this for 10 years. That's amazing. I love it. Yes, I mean, the way that I celebrate, I mean, obviously, I have a happiness wall. I keep it simple over at my house. I just print the one that we have on our website. My partner and I will just fill it out. I also like to do just simple actions. I don't think it has to be like extravagant to make a difference. I'll start my day off just sitting outside, getting in the right mindset. Then I'll try to do something nice for someone else, whether it's a friend, family member, or stranger. [00:13:43] PF: I love that. How about you, Laura? [00:13:45] LC: We actually ended up kind of making it a tradition at our house. Just to give listeners a little background, Paula and I actually met on the International Day of Happiness the first time we did that at Live Happy 10 years ago. [00:13:56] PF: Ten years ago. It's our anniversary, Laura. [00:13:59] LC: It’s our friendiversary. [00:14:01] CJ: Now, that's a happy act. [00:14:02] PF: There it is. [00:14:03] LC: Which was an awesome thing. That is probably one of the best things that has come out of the International Day of Happiness for me is some of the friendships I formed, so love that. But I think it was the second year that we were at Live Happy, and we did an interaction at work where we made the happiness rocks, where we painted on the rocks, and we went and distributed them, which has positive messages on them. I don't think I did it that year with the kids. The third year with the kids, we did that at home and put them out in our neighborhood. The kids are teenagers now, but we've been doing that every year. It’s just always been – I think it probably means something a little different to them now. It was more like hide and seek when they were little kids. Now, they get that they're doing it kind of for younger kids or people. It was a really big thing for us, and it was fun to do right after the pandemic hit. It's a wonderful thing that we've kind of kept going. [00:15:07] PF: When I was still in Nashville, there was an organization that would do that. They'd collect rocks, and they'd paint them positive messages. Then you would just be – I'd be walking my dog and just find these rocks in various places around the neighborhood. I thought that's really cool. Love that. It just makes you smile. [00:15:22] LC: I think with HappyActs, it's just a positive thing. Not just a positive thing with an intention. It’s nice. [00:15:30] CJ: [inaudible 00:15:30] moments of joy. [00:15:32] PF: Exactly. It doesn't take much. [00:15:33] CJ: Little moments. [00:15:34] PF: It doesn't take a lot. Then it really changes the trajectory of somebody's day, including your own. [00:15:41] LC: It might change the trajectory of multiple people's days. [00:15:43] PF: That’s true. [00:15:44] LC: That whole like how it's supposed to expand and grow [inaudible 00:15:47]. [00:15:49] CJ: The ripple effect. [00:15:51] PF: 100%. We are rippling out with some new things going on this year. Laura, you mentioned the happiness walls that we've done for several years and have always had a great time with those, getting people to write on these walls how they're going to share happiness. This year, I know Deb touched on it when we had her on the show a couple weeks ago. But explain to us the digital wall and how people can jump on there and be part of this and use it as part of the celebration for the International Day of Happiness. [00:16:20] LC: I mean, first off, I know that sometimes I find that I go and I see news and I just realize that I'm getting down. I mean, the first thing that you can do is just if you need a pick me up, go and look at it. It's livehappy.com/wall. It's pulling in HappyActs from social media posts, not only things that we've posted about but things that are – anybody in the public that is aware of our thing can just hashtag HappyActs from their social media accounts, and that'll pull into the wall. Also, there's a QR code directly on the digital screen, where you can just scan the QR code and post right to the wall. What we're saying is it doesn't have to be something you've done because some people have a hard time being like, “I've done this thing.” It’s something that maybe had been done for you that day or a week before or maybe something that you've thought about for years and years, some of those little things that just changed your outlook or changed your day. [00:17:21] PF: I love this digital wall. It's so refreshing. You can just – every time you look at it, it's something new, and there's new acts on there and new things to do. Then, of course, if people run out of ideas, they can download our calendar. Casey, that's where you come in. You do such a fantastic job with this. Every year, you create our 31 Days of HappyActs and come up with some really innovative things that we can do to make our world a happier place. Talk to us about the downloadable calendar. [00:17:49] CJ: Well, first of all, thank you for that. It's definitely a team effort. Yes, this 31 Ideas for HappyActs, you can download it at livehappy.com/happyacts, first of all. It's free, and it's a great way to get inspired and follow along. We have a new happy act each day in March. It's just such a fun and easy way to focus on those positive acts and just get people engaged in an activity that is part of a global movement. [00:18:16] PF: You also have some cool stuff going on in the store. [00:18:19] CJ: Yes. All month long, people can save 20% off with code HappyActs 20 at checkout. We have the encouraging sticky notes, some Live Happy classic T-shirts. We have our Live Happy Now tie-dye T-shirt, which is one of my faves. Lots of fun stuff on the store right now. [00:18:38] PF: That's excellent. For both of you, what do you hope that people will do this International Day of Happiness? How do you hope it'll land with them, and what can they do to make it meaningful to them and to those around them? [00:18:53] LC: International Day of Happiness is just a really kind of cool thing. Not only do we look at what's going on in the world. But what's going on in our own little lives and the things that we can do to make the people that are closest to us just a little bit more positive throughout the day? If it's a hug, if it's a kind word, if it's holding the door, if it's a wave and a smile, I mean, it can change the way you feel day-to-day. [00:19:21] PF: Right, right. You never know what that person is going through, what it's going to do for somebody else, and how much they need that. I want to share a story real quick. A friend of mine, we've had him on the show. That's how he became a friend. His name is Greg Kettner. He has an initiative called WorkHappy. He's very good about posting on Facebook and Instagram just thoughtful messages like, “You matter to me.” Things like that. He's very intentional about it. He had shared with me that he had posted that exact sentiment. He had posted you matter to me. Someone reached out to him and said that they had actually been in the process of creating a plan to end their life because they thought nobody cared. They opened up their social media feed, and the first thing they saw was Greg's post, you matter to me. To Greg, it was just something that he does every day. I mean, he means it, but he had no idea what effect that was going to have. I love that story because we don't know. You don't know how your goodness is going to affect somebody and how it can change their day, their plan, their whole outlook on life. [00:20:28] LC: I love that. You're going to make me tear up. [00:20:30] CJ: Me, too. Where are the tissues? [00:20:33] PF: Casey, what about you? What do you hope that people take away from this? I think people need to know that both Laura and Casey are so invested in making this day happen and making this month really come to fruition and put a lot of effort into it. Casey, you especially really roll up your sleeves on this at this time of the year. What do you hope people get out of that? [00:20:53] CJ: My takeaway is bringing it back to the theme this year, bringing the world together. We see so much negativity, and I just hope that these simple actions, I mean, they really are so easy. I just hope that they can make a bigger impact, whether that's internal, external. I really think it all starts with making a difference in your community and your backyard. It’s that ripple effect. I think it just expands from there, so I just really hope that HappyActs can help bring the world together. We need it now more than ever it feels like. [00:21:26] PF: We do. Very well said. Again, we want everyone to check out the website, livehappy.com, because we have all kinds of resources there that they can download. They can learn about HappyActs. They can listen to other podcasts. There are so many things that they can do. We just look forward to seeing them online. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:21:47] PF: That was Laura Coppedge and Casey Johnson, talking about HappyActs and the International Day of Happiness. If you'd like to visit our digital wall or download your own HappyActs calendar, visit us at livehappy.com and click on HappyActs. If you want to learn more about Will Thomas and Good News Magazine, you can also find that at livehappy.com when you click on our podcast tab. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Move From Surviving to Thriving With Brandi Sellerz-Jackson [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 459 of Live Happy Now. If you feel like you're merely surviving instead of thriving, this week's episode could be just what the doctor or the doula ordered. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and today I'm talking with Brandi Sellerz-Jackson, a life doula and author of the book, On Thriving: Harnessing Joy Through Life's Greatest Labors. Brandi learned to thrive despite her own traumatic past, and now she walks others down the path of healing and self-nurturing to help them find true joy in life. In this episode, Brandi sits down with me to explain why it's so important for us to learn to practice self-care, and she offers tips that will improve both our physical and our mental health. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:48] PF: Brandi, thank you for coming on Live Happy Now. [0:00:51] BSJ: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. [0:00:55] PF: You are, unlike any guests that we've had. You are a life doula now. So, to set this up, explain to us what that is. [0:01:03] BSJ: So, I started my work initially in birth and birth, in postpartum doula work, which means, I was there to support families as they give birth. But during 2020, something happened. It was this little small little global pandemic thing that happened. [0:01:19] PF: Yes. There was a hiccup that happened. [0:01:21] BSJ: Yes. It was a little small hiccup. No big deal. No big deal. That happened and shook our world of course. So, long story short, what ended up happening is, I had a conversation with a friend many years ago, a dear friend named Aishat HaSati who's a healer, who I talked about in the book. She was saying how, “Man wouldn't be great if we had some doula through life?” And we're like, “Yes, like a life doula.” We kind of just were joking. But basically, what happened is I ended up finding myself in that work, and I was like, “Oh, that's what a life doula is. It's someone who supports you through various transitions and various moments of rediscovery in your life. So, yes. [0:02:04] PF: With this book, first of all, I feel like you have a lot of books in you. I wondered why On Thriving was the one that you wanted to do first? [0:02:15] BSJ: Oh, my goodness. I wanted to write the book that I needed. [0:02:19] PF: I love that. [0:02:21] BSJ: Yes. I wanted to write the book that I needed. In the book, I share various experiences that I've had. Very hard, hard, hard, hard experiences that I've had. And I really wish there was something that I could tangibly go to, almost like a guide, and how to navigate those really hard moments. I didn't want to read something that just tells me to go take a bubble bath, or go drink some water, just go and like – [0:02:57] PF: Breathe. Just breathe, Brandi. [0:02:58] BSJ: Just breathe through it. It’s things that are very vague, or opaque, or very just okay. I wanted something that would hold the hand of the reader, so whatever part of their journey that they're in, they didn't feel alone in it. Because I feel like that's a huge part of the journey is that feeling of aloneness during – [0:03:21] PF: What you do remarkably well is you share your own experiences, very honestly, very heartfelt. But you don't overpower the reader with those experiences. You still manage to make it about the reader, which is really a gift with your writing. Because a lot of times, the things that you've shared would come off more just like a memoir, and you managed to sidestep that and turn it into just, really, a teaching guidebook and saying, “I've shared this with you. You can do this too.” It's really like sitting down with someone who's saying, “Come on, I'm going to give you a little bit. You give me a little bit. Let's go do this together.” I have to commend you for that. It's just remarkably well done. [0:04:05] BSJ: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. That was the goal. I really wanted that. I didn't want it to be a thing of people reading it and it feels like, I'm just unloading. Let me tell you about my life. [0:04:21] PF: Sometimes too, in a book like that, people can end up feeling, “Well, gosh, I haven't been through anything nearly as bad.” And you're very careful to avoid even – you have a lot of horrific experiences to drop on, but you never make the reader feel like you're playing on top of that. Whoa, it's beautiful. [0:04:39] BSJ: Because we all have our hard. We all have our version of it. [0:04:42] PF: Right. Now, in the book, you talk about the four labors of our lives. So, tell us what those four labors are. [0:04:52] BSJ: Yes. The first one is the labors of relationships. Our relationship with our self and others. I'll say this too, before I name them. I really tried to think of four things that we are all going to go through. I don't care how much money you have. I don't care your nationality, ethnicity, your color, your sexuality. Everyone's going to be touched by this. Everyone's going to be touched by these four laborers. So, the first one is relationship. Figuring out our relationship with ourselves and others and the humans within this world. Mental health, how do we hone in on our healing? Many of us have experienced a pretty traumatic past few years. And then you pair that with our own personal stuff. It's a lot. So, how do we cultivate our mental health and thrive during those hard moments? Grief. They say death is the great uniter. No one escapes it. None of us get out of it and none of us are not touched by it. I really wanted to share what that looks like, grief. Not even just grief, as in like the death of a person, like the physical death, but even just the death of a relationship. The death of a career, the end. More so, the end of things. How do we thrive when it is the end of things and begin to reframe our ideas from it being purely just the end, as opposed to also the beginning? Then lastly, thriving well-being othered. We all get a seat at the table. I don't care where you come from. We all get a seat where we look around, and we realize we are the only in that moment. How do we thrive and not shrink and feel like, “Oh, my gosh, I don't belong here.” How do we thrive in those moments? So, I really wanted to find four things where we, just being human, this is what's going to happen, it's going to happen. [0:06:46] PF: Yes. You do that really well. You walk us through that. That's another thing that's great about this book is someone can jump in. You don't have to sit down and I've got to start on page one and I've got to go through. You do build on stories from previous chapters, but you could jump in like say, it's grief. Say, grief is the thing that's frontmost. You can go and just start there and pick up and get that same help. [0:07:10] BSJ: Yes. I totally agree. I wanted that. I really wanted each section to offer the reach or something where it's like, “Oh, this part is for me. I need to start here.” [0:07:21] PF: Yes. You do acknowledge that all these labors just like birth, they have incredible pain, but they also have incredible reward. The key is staying present during this. Talk about how you teach us to stay present, during the pain, during this very difficult time, so that you can truly experience it and gain the best reward out of it. [0:07:46] BSJ: Yes. One of the things I say is, “Breathe.” I do connect it to our breath a lot of times, because it's the first thing that we hold when things are like – we hold our breath. But also, too, I try to walk the reader through practical steps. So, one, reminding you, yourself, of where you are, that although this may feel like it, whatever it is, is happening again, this is totally different and is more than likely is different. So, how do we stay present when we're triggered? How do we stay present when it's a hard moment? So, reminding ourselves of where we are. Another thing is reminding ourselves of our agency. That is the first thing that I write that goes when we have experienced trauma is our sense of agency. A lot of times when hard moments, difficult moments, stressful moments come up, it's the very thing that I feel like goes out the window again. It's like, “Freeze.” It's like that flight, fight, or freeze. You freeze because you're like, “Wait, I don't know what to do.” You go back to that seven-year-old, eight-year-old, nine-year-old child that's like frozen in that moment. So, reminding yourself that you have agency, you have a say. You may not like all the choices. You may not like all the options. But you do have a say in how you choose to move forward and grabbing back that sense of agency is, is one of the most powerful tools that we have. Another thing that's very practical. I say, hold your own hand. I do this exercise where I literally close my eyes and when I feel a little girl Brandi feeling triggered, feeling a lot, feeling the residue of what I've experienced, I hold my own hand, and I envision myself holding little girl Brandi’s hand and saying, “Okay, let's do this together. We're okay. Everything's okay. And if it's not, it's going to be okay.” So, those are things. I try to really be practical, because I really, really, really hate, I hate all the catchphrases that are out there nowadays with self-care, self-care, self-care, boundaries, blah, blah, blah, and none of us really know what that means when it comes into practice. So, I really wanted to write a book that showed us how to practice these things. [0:09:59] PF: You do that quite well. I think it's wonderful that someone can read this. They can take these tools and learn them when they don't need them. Because that's really when you want to refine this. Not when you’re in crisis and go, “Oh, crap. What did Brandi say I'm supposed to do?” [0:10:15] BSJ: “Well, I forgot.” [0:10:17] PF: “If I got to keep this up.” But yes, that's what's so wonderful, it really gives you tools and practices that you can just use daily and build on and make part of your being. So, when that crisis does hit, when that labor is there, you can walk through it. [0:10:32] BSJ: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Listen, these are all things that I've had to learn and implement. I'm not exempt. There are moments where I am just like, I feel the most, and I'm like, “Okay, what did I say? What did I write?” Go back to that. [0:10:53] PF: Yes. It's a journey. We're all learning. Of course, you're talking about thriving, and that is a word we hear a lot, and I think it probably means different things to different people. So, explain where you're coming from? What does thriving look like, feel like to you? [0:11:12] BSJ: Yes. I agree. I think it looks different for everyone. One of the things I do say, I say define what thriving means to you, because what I think is thriving, could be totally different. It can be different on any given day too. For me, today, thriving looked like getting all three of my kids out the door, wrestling with a five-year-old, who was determined on probably not wearing shoes. Then, I finally talked him into wearing shoes, because it's rainy here. That's thriving. It worked. Whatever happened, it worked. Every day is different. So, thriving, though, I think in a nutshell, I would say, it's showing up as is, being open to unlearning and learning, and not being this destination. This sad destination, but more so this ongoing work that you're doing. It's ongoing. It's ongoing. And being very keen to what it is that you need. So, what is it that I need in this moment to thrive? Not just survive. It's a response. I think of thriving as a response, as opposed to a reaction. It's a pause. It's an exhale. It's a deep breath. That's what it is, as opposed to this clenching. [MESSAGE] [0:12:39] PF: Today, we're talking about how to thrive and it's no secret that pausing to take a breath can change your state. But if you're spending a lot of time indoors, chances are you're breathing in things like allergens, pollen, pet dander, and more. In fact, you might be surprised to learn that indoor air is up to five times more polluted than outdoor air. That's why I'm obsessed with my new air purifier from AirDoctor. It filters out 99.99% of harmful contaminants, so your lungs don't have to. Talk about a breath of fresh air. No matter the size of your space, AirDoctor has a purifier that's right for you, and you can breathe easy with its 30-day money-back guarantee. So, if you want to clear the air in your home or office space, check out AirDoctor at airdoctorpro.com. If you use the promo code, Live Happy, you'll get up to $300 off and get a free three-year warranty. That's airdoctorpro.com and use the promo code Live Happy. Now, let's hear more about what Brandi Sellerz-Jackson has to say about thriving. [INTERVIEW CONTINUES] [0:13:45] PF: You work with a lot of different people and have talked with a lot of different people. So, you've seen their struggles in their obstacles. Are there some common obstacles that you see to thriving? Are there things that we're just putting in our own path, or just can't get past that you see over and over with people? [0:14:04] BSJ: Yeah, I would say I don't think a lot of people believe that we're worthy of thriving. I think when you've been in a rut of survival, that's what you're used to. So, I think the first step is knowing that you're worthy of thriving. I opened in the book about taking psychedelics and doing psychedelic therapy, and I did it because I want it to live my life. I want it to cease looking at it as if I am this house sitter, just collecting packages for the actual person that lives here. Right? I wanted to actually live my life like I actually live here, like it's mine. So, I think a lot of people, when you've experienced trauma, after trauma, after trauma or just even small traumas, small t, big T trauma, whatever. I think that knowing that you are worthy of thriving is the very first step. It’s the first thing that you have to really just grab a hold of. [0:15:12] PF: If you're in survival mode, you're not even thinking thriving. So, how do you get someone, first of all, to recognize that they are in survival mode? And then to realize that there's a something called thriving? And then to get them to take that step out of survival into thriving? Because it's a short journey in some ways, but it's a huge step. [0:15:35] BSJ: It is a huge step. I think the way to get them to do that, I don't think anyone can do it for you. That's the hard part. There's no switch, I think, again, it's daily. Daily telling yourself, “I'm worthy of this life. I'm worthy of thriving.” If you're in a hard moment, this too shall pass. It's going to pass. I'm worthy of thriving.” It is that knowing. Now, I'm going to be honest, I don't think it's one of those things that you know immediately. I don't think it’s just like, “Oh, yes, I'm worthy of thought.” It's not, “Looks like, and go.” It takes time. If you've had years of trauma, it takes time. I mean, and that's just not like a sweet thing to say, because it's nice. But really, our brains, trauma changes the brain. [0:16:32] PF: Exactly. [0:16:34] BSJ: So, to work with that neuroplasticity of it, and to get into habits of changing it, and unlearning, it's going to take time. So, I think the biggest thing would be, give yourself grace, give yourself time. This is not an overnight work. This is a daily work. [0:16:58] PF: As you said before, it's a journey. It’s not a destination. You're not going to get to this ticket station. You get your passport stamped and – [0:17:05] BSJ: No. I wish it were that way. That would be great. [0:17:07] PF: Wouldn't it? [0:17:08] BSJ: It’d be so wonderful if we just decided something and it's like, “And boom.” That's not the way it works. It's not the way life works, unfortunately. [0:17:17] PF: It's not. What if we know someone who is stuck in survival mode, and they're doing the best they can, and they can't see their way out of that, and they can't see into how they could ever thrive. How do we gently nudge them? Because as you said, they have to do it. But what are some of the prompts that we can offer as friends, as family, to help them realize you don't have to stay here? [0:17:42] BSJ: Yes. I would really validate their worthiness. Every time I get a chance, you're worthy of it, you're worthy of thriving. I would also too – I mean, I love therapy. I think therapy is great. If they're into therapy, if you're someone that they trust, I think that's something good to kind of recommend, and not like a thing of, “You need a therapist.” But more so like, “Hey, if they see you even doing that work, I think that's another thing.” I think, example, example, thriving by example, I think that is the biggest thing you can show for friends and family. Because I think people remember what they see, and the work that we're doing versus of what we're saying. [0:18:32] PF: Absolutely. [0:18:34] BSJ: Right. If they see you, because I have friends that have seen me in hard moments, and they've seen me in moments where I was like, “Oh, I don’t know.” They see me doing this work. They've seen me do this work consistently, and I think my example of doing the work, doing the hard things is bigger than anything I can ever say out of my mouth. Actually, even anything I could write out in a book, because they're seeing me in real life. [0:19:05] PF: Absolutely. [0:19:07] BSJ: So, I think that would be the biggest thing is, think about your life. If you see a friend that's struggling, think about your life and how you're showing up for your life and what you're modeling to. Because people are watching. And if you really want them to get the support they need, then make sure you got the support you need. Because they'll notice it, they'll see it. [0:19:28] PF: Yes. That is tremendous advice. I love that. One approach that I really like is where you talk about taking care of yourself like a house plant. I have to admit, I once killed an air fern. So, I'm not sure if that is going to apply directly to me. But I love this. Explain what you mean by that and how we take care of ourselves like a house plant, because this is so relatable. I absolutely love this. [0:19:53] BSJ: Yes. I mean, well, it's the same thing. We're not that much different than plants. We have more complicated feelings. That's basically it. But water, they need water, they need nurturing, they even did a study where if you talk to your plants and watch how they grow, I don't think we're any different. We're not different. So, I think of it, for me, the biggest lesson was how I was pruning my plants and all this stuff started growing. Watering plants, things start growing. Paying attention to them, giving them the right soil, fertilizer, all that. It's the same thing with us. We're not this thing where it's like, “We don't need anything.” Every living thing needs something. We need things to keep us living and thriving. [0:20:39] PF: You explained it really well, in the book, too. I really enjoyed that part of it. You probably don't know that one of the things we talked about all the time, here at Live Happy Now, is gratitude. You talk a lot about how gratitude has a role in our happiness. But also, kindness can have the same effect. So, for everyone who's tired of hearing me talk about gratitude, let's switch it over to kindness. Talk about what that does for our physical and mental well-being when we start practicing kindness and live with kindness. [0:21:09] BSJ: It's everything. I mean, there are studies that show that people who practice kindness, it affects our health in positive ways. It affects the way we live, in some studies, how long we live. I mean, it's literally everything. I write about how even just going kindness watching. You've heard of people watching, but kindness watching. It will inspire you in so many ways and inspire your own demonstration of kindness. [0:21:36] PF: Tell us more about that. Tell us about kindness watching. That's so cool. [0:21:38] BSJ: Yes. I write how, one time I saw this farmer at the farmer’s market, he just gave these boys some honey sticks, and it just made me feel all the things. I was just was like, “How lucky am I that I got to witness this moment of kindness?” Everything that's happening in the world in this moment, and in the past, and everything that will happen in the future. I get to witness this one moment of kindness. It made me emotional and it made me grateful for my life. So, it's basically where you just you actively seek out moments where you are arrested by kindness, and you watch it and you witness it. You're like, now think about how that feels for you. Because it will inspire you. I mean, it did for me. It just made me be – it made my day. I mean, it’s sticks. You would have thought that this man gave them a million dollars. It was like, “No, it was just some honey sticks”, that probably had a plethora of. But it was like, “Oh, my gosh. That's so kind.” [0:22:41] PF: That's very cool. Did you have to originally remind yourself to do this and then it becomes a practice? Or how do you start doing this kindness watching? [0:22:51] BSJ: In that moment, it just hit me. The weight, the endorphins that it gave me. I was like, “Oh, this feeling is just” – it's like, looking at a cute baby. It’s watching Elf for the 20th time during the holidays. It's one of those feelings. It's grandma's favorite soup. It's all of those things that make you feel so warm. So, for me, I try my best to actually do it and just be aware of it. When I see it, I hold on to it, I don't let it go, and I just let it does wash over me and feel all the good things about it. [0:23:31] PF: That's terrific. So, I know we have to let you go. But before we do, you have three tips for cultivating joy that I wish you would share with our audience. [0:23:44] BSJ: Oh, my goodness. I'm trying to remember, but I feel like, well, one I would say, definitely go kindness watching. That's the first thing. That, right there, will just feel your joy cup in so many ways and it will make you feel so happy. You'll feel so happy. Another thing is make sure that you're watering yourself. Put the water in, make sure you're watering yourself, and yes, drink water. Sure. Yes. You should drink water. But make sure you're watering yourself, the people that are around you that they water you and they don't deplete you. They water you. Make sure that you are watering you. So, that means if you need to take a nap, go take a nap, please go take a nap. No one has gotten anything by working themselves to the bone that more tired. I would say lastly, know that you're worthy of joy. I say, know that you're worthy of thriving, but know that you're worthy of joy. I know that when it's hard moment some of us can feel like it's sacrilegious to feel joy in those hard moments, but that's the thing that is the wind in your sails. That's the thing that carry you and keep you breathing, is enjoying those joyful moments in the hard moments. [0:25:02] PF: I love it. Thank you so much. Brandi, thank you for coming on the show. We're going to tell the listeners where they can find you, where they can find your book, where they can discover more about you. You give us so much to think about and I appreciate you sharing it with us today. [0:25:15] BSJ: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:25:22] PF: That was Brandi Sellerz-Jackson talking about how to move from surviving to thriving. If you'd like to learn more about Brandi, read her book, follow her on social media, or read her blog. Visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every Tuesday, we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]