Search Results for: practice

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Unleash Your Creativity With Steven Kowalski [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 402 of Live Happy Now. Creativity is a driving force of innovation. But have you thought about how it can change your life at work and at home? I'm your host, Paula Felps. And this week, I'm being joined by Steven Kowalski, a leading voice in the global movement for conscious creativity. In his new book, Creative Together: Sparking Innovation in the New World of Work, he explains that all of us are creative, whether we think we are or not, and he tells us how to find our own creative style. Then use that to find greater satisfaction, both on the job and at home. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:44] PF: Steven, welcome to Live Happy Now. [00:00:46] SK: Great to be here. [00:00:47] PF: This is such a great topic to talk about because we talk about creativity in our lives, but you are really taking it into the business space and looking at how it affects us at work, at home, and all these different ways. So I'm excited to talk to you. I guess before we dive in, can you tell us what you mean when you talk about conscious creativity because this was interesting to me. [00:01:09] SK: Yeah, super. I think conscious anything, conscious leadership, conscious capitalism, conscious creativity, we're hearing a lot of that these days. What that really means to me is that we're bringing attention and intention to what we're doing. So there's a component of self-awareness. There's a component of being clear about what I'm aiming for, reflecting on how results are mapping to my intentions. Intention and attention is probably the shorthand. [00:01:36] PF: Yeah. How does one start giving more thought to that? Because I do think in the past, we've been like either, “Oh, I'm creative, or I feel creative,” and not really thinking about our control over it. [00:01:49] SK: Yeah. So in the book, Creative Together, I talk about how most of us are walking around with what I call an ability-based definition of creativity. What that means is we think it's an ability that we have or don't have or have to some degree, and we just kind of settle into – In some ways, maybe that's even comfortable to think, “Well, maybe I'm not that creative. So I shouldn't expect it that much for myself.” But we all have the opportunity to move to this different way of thinking about creativity, but it's a potential. So I talk about this in Creative Together that shift is really critical. Because when I approached my life and my work as if creativity was an ability, I may or may not realize all the opportunities that I have to bring it forward and bring it into work, into the teamwork that I do, into the business. That's the first part about paying attention and bringing more intention, more conscious creativity is understanding that we're operating in this old story of what creativity is, and the first thing we need to do is to change the story. Then we can change the story of who we are as creators and then create more effectively with others. [00:03:01] PF: Right. Because that is one thing, and you bring it out so beautifully in the book that we've kind of been taught, when we think of creativity, we think of artists and writers and musicians. So someone who is in a business space, someone who's an accountant doesn't think, “Gosh, I'm a creative person.” We've been told that our entire lives. So how do we start thinking about creativity differently and seeing how it is being used in our daily work so that we can tap into it? [00:03:33] SK: Yeah. I like to think about creativity and propose this definition. Creativity is really this potential that we have to invent new solutions to problems we either face. So pandemic – [00:03:47] PF: Oh, is that a problem? [00:03:48] SK: Flooding, job losses, whatever, right? Problems we face or problems that we designed for ourselves. Like I have an aspiration to write a book. I'd like to start a business. When I call them problems, it's really opportunities, right? [00:04:03] PF: I love that. [00:04:04] SK: That's a big part of the switch. But creativity is just our potential to invent new solutions, new approaches, new in the face of these challenges and opportunities we might face or design for ourselves. I think that's critical as a starting point because then, anytime we face a challenge or an opportunity and an accountant or a scientist, or an IT professional, or an HR professional, or an engineer, or anyone from any industry at all, in any domain or line of work, is going to face challenges and opportunities, some of those we’ll design for ourselves, and some of them will be impinging on us. If we pay attention, we start to see evidence that our creativity is there every day, moment to moment, as we need it. That's, I think, the critical piece. In the potential definition, it shows up when we need it. In the ability definition, it's supposed to be there all the time, and some people just have less, and some people have more. [00:05:08] PF: So what do people need to do to kind of start changing their mindset and realizing, “I am creative, and this is creativity at work.”? What are some of those little baby steps to start looking at that? [00:05:20] SK: Yeah. In the book, I talked about the GIFTED methodology, G-I-F-T-E-D. So I'm going to use the first couple of letters as some of the answer to your question. So the G stands for greet the unknown with passion. I know I often greet the unknown with dread. [00:05:38] PF: Yeah. Or fear, terror. [00:05:41] SK: I try to control against it. So greet the unknown with passion, with faith in my creativity. So greeting the unknown is like one of the most important steps. There's uncertainty. There's volatility. There's complexity. We've heard this VUCA thing for many, many years now, right? There's ambiguity. What we need to do as a first step is not shy away from this because that's where our creativity will get activated. That's the G in GIFTED. I is ignite creative potential, and it's important to know what kinds of conditions give rise to creativity and to work those conditions. I call it the intersection of purpose, possibility, and constraint. All three of those things are essential ingredients for our creativity to show up. Maybe just at the very start is to think about like what are the unknowns in my life? Where are the arenas in which my creativity might show up? Maybe I'm getting a divorce. Maybe I'm looking for a new house. Maybe I'm starting a business. Maybe I'm recovering from a challenging illness, whatever. What are some of those unknowns, and how is my creativity showing up there or not? Or how can I bring more conscious awareness to how it is showing up and then work it a little bit more? [00:06:59] PF: You are really a fan of actually working on your creativity in terms of it's not just like becoming aware that I’m creative. They need to do some exercises, and they really need to do things to nurture and cultivate that. [00:07:13] SK: Yes, we all do. It's the most sustainable, inexhaustible resource we have, our creativity. I call it CDD, creativity disruption disorder. We're walking around, not realizing the amazing potential that we have and how to use it more consciously. [00:07:31] PF: Another thing that you say, and I love this, it's once we discover our creativity, we must have profound faith in it. That was just a really powerful statement. Can you explain what you mean by that? Then tell us why we need to have that much faith in it. [00:07:49] SK: I can and I'd also love to hear what went through your head maybe after when you read that, and it had that impact on you. When we rely on our creativity as an inexhaustible, sustainable resource, we can face these unknowns, this ambiguity, this uncertainty that where – It seems to me – I don't know. I don't think I'm unusual in this way, but it seems like there's more and more of it, and it's coming from every direction. I don't know how many inboxes I have now, with all the email inboxes that I have and the – Forget the mailbox. It's like old school, right? There's all these inboxes. There's all this input. There are so many demands. There's obligations. There's things I want to do, that time is running out. How am I going to manage this? There are so many unknowns that I'm facing, and I think that's critical. When I have faith in my creativity that it's going to show up, it's less overwhelming. These things are less taxing. I see them more as opportunity as opposed to trauma and adversity. [00:08:49] PF: That makes absolute sense. [00:08:51] SK: Was there anything that came into your awareness as you read that? [00:08:54] PF: Yes. Because I think it's almost like two sides of a coin because on one hand, I do take that creativity for granted, and that is doing what I do. I write. I write stories. I write books. I do a lot of things, in addition to podcasting. So I kind of take it for granted. But then on the other side, it’s almost like realizing I don't have enough faith in that creativity that it is always going to be the thing that I lead with. That's what I want to get into as well. I think sometimes, I need to lead with the idea and let the creativity catch up to it. You talk about that in the business sense of we're focusing on innovation, when we should be focusing on creativity, because that's the spark that drives it. The way that you put that all together, it's like, okay, I'm doing kind of the reverse. I've reversed engineered the way that it should be done. That is, as you said, so many businesses are doing that, placing the emphasis on the wrong thing. So can you talk about that, why it's important? We’re all talking about innovation and disruption, and this is how we lead, and you're saying like, “Hang on. That's not where it starts.” [00:10:04] SK: Well, I see innovation as a type of creative result. It's a creative result that yields value, new value. The interesting thing you could ask is like, okay, value for whom? What kind of value, like constructive, destructive? I don't know. But innovation at its core is about new value, new markets, new customers, new benefits, new whatever, new value. As a creative result, if I'm not working with my creativity and my relationship with my creativity is kind of in the closet or – In Creative Together, I say where is your creativity? Is it out in the lobby checked out? Imagine you're in a theater. [00:10:48] PF: It's waiting in the trunk. [00:10:49] SK: Out on the balcony, like unreachable or – Where is it? So I don't have that daily connection. If I'm not leveraging it, if I'm not drawing on it, if I'm not stepping into the unknown with faith, I'm kind of disadvantaging myself. [00:11:05] PF: So what should leaders be doing to foster that creative thinking and to really encourage it in employees? [00:11:14] SK: First thing I'll say is clarify the purpose, the reason why people's creativity should show up. Because if it's just about the routine or if it's just about delivering business as usual, creativity won't show up. The thing about that is it's so sad to me when people are in jobs, or their work is sort of routine day to day, and they start to think, “I'm not creative.” The truth is the work that I'm doing, I'm not being asked for that. My manager, my leader is not being asked for that. He’s not asking me for that. So I say the first thing that leaders need to do is to clarify the purpose, the reason why people's creativity should come up, come forward today. Why do we need something different than the status quo? So that's number one. The second thing is we all have a tolerance for ambiguity in our self, and I find that leaders often limit the degrees of freedom that they allow for folks to do their work. So if I'm a leader, and I've got a low tolerance for ambiguity, and I don't give degrees of freedom, I need to see results right away. Creativity needs room. There's exploration that's part of it. There's prototyping and things that work out and things that don't work out, right? If I'm micromanaging or if I'm stuck in having it done my way or the way I think it should be done, I'm not getting the degrees of freedom that are necessary for creativity to emerge. So those are two things I might answer in a short answer. We could talk about that. [00:12:49] PF: Exactly. That could be a whole episode right there. So what then happens to the individual, as we're allowed to use more creativity on the job? How does that make us happier? How does that make us more productive at work? [00:13:03] SK: Yeah. I immediately go to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and I think self-actualization is kind of at the top of that pyramid. It starts out with things like safety and security and just getting my basic needs met. At the top of his pyramid is self-actualization, and I think creativity is part of our feeling like we're self-actualizing. We're making a difference. We're learning. We're transforming in ways that we're seeing changes in our lives. So creativity is intimately intertwined with some of these processes that make life meaningful and help me connect with others. [00:13:40] PF: Then as we become happier, we're going to take those feelings home. There are so many studies that show if it's not working out on the job, you're taking that home. You're not going to feel great when you get home. So obviously, the reverse is true. So what happens? What have you seen in the people that you work with, as they begin implementing more creativity in their work? How does that spill over into their home life? [00:14:04] SK: Sure. I'll share a story about an IT professional, a leader in the IT department of a company that I worked with. We were talking about the voice of judgment and how that inner critic that we have – Arianna Huffington calls it the obnoxious roommate. There are so many names for it. We were working in this concept because the inner critic can really stifle the expression of creativity. The inner critic is there to keep you safe, right? So we were talking about the inner critic, and we weren't focusing in on business, and what are some of the declarative statements that stakeholders are making, that customers are making, that we're making about what's possible and what's not possible? Sure enough, the next time we got together, she said, “You know, I went home, and I really reflected on my relationship with my 15-year-old son, and I realized there was so much critic operating and running in my head. The stories I was telling, the questions I was asking him, that I was shocked and stunned at how this was getting in the way.” So the practices that help us access our creativity and bring it forward more effectively also can help us in our relationships, and in our communities, and the work we might be doing with nonprofits and all kinds of things. I think that's some of the ways that people can see this interchange between work and life. [00:15:26] PF: Yeah, because you can't really compartmentalize creativity. Once you let it out, it's going to take over. Let's talk. You mentioned someone with their 15-year-old son. What is it that we as adults, as parents can do to bring up children to nurture that creativity, so they don't have to wait until they're on the job, and they're in their 30s or 40s and trying to figure out their creative side? How do we nurture that creativity as they're growing up? [00:15:51] SK: I'll tell a story. When I was young and I was expressing my creativity through art and I would take what I was working on to my parents. It was only partially done, or I had just started. They will say, “Well, bring it back to me when it's done.” Now, of course, if anyone who's familiar with agile and agile methodologies, right? One of the tenants of agile is early and frequent customer input. So in a way, I was there looking for input early and often, and I was getting shut down or like, “Don't come to me till it's done.” So sometimes, we don't even realize how we may be setting up weird assumptions and rules for our kids by just the simplest behavior or not even being aware. But I would say encourage exploration. If a kid comes to us with something that they're working on or something, provide some input. Ask them questions, instead of giving answers. These are maybe a few things that I think we could do in response to your question. [00:16:49] PF: I like that. Then the more you practice it at home, you're also going to keep doing it work. [00:16:54] SK: Mm-hmm, asking questions is one of our – [00:16:55] PF: It’s an upward spiral. [00:16:57] SK: It is. It is. Asking questions is one of our four superpowers that I talk about in Creative Together, and asking questions is such an important part of encouraging creativity, not just in ourselves but in others, whether it's business colleagues or kids or elderly parents or whoever it is. [00:17:15] PF: Yeah. We get caught up in the talking, especially we're in a high-output society. We got to tweet our opinions. We got to make our posts on Facebook, Instagram, and we don't ask enough questions. We don't listen enough. So I love the fact that you really emphasize that and show us the value of doing that. That's a big part of it. Now, let's talk about creative styles. I really enjoyed this part of the book because it's fun to say, “Oh, I can see myself in that one and that one,” but then find out like, “Okay, yeah. I definitely skew toward that, over it.” Let's talk about the three creative styles and that fourth thing with the styles. [00:17:52] SK: That's great. So this came out of my doctoral research at UCLA. During my dissertation, I saw in the work that I was doing in the research I was doing these different styles showed up. Because I was at the Department of Education, I was looking at teachers in a very bureaucratic school district most of them are. So how do teachers in that context express their creativity in relationship to this social system that they're in? That's all of us. Me and my job, I'm in a social system. Anyone in any industry, anyone in any, whether you're a nonprofit or healthcare or corporation or whatever, we're all in a social system. So the styles that showed up then that have stayed true over the years, the soloist, the soloist said – You're saying – You're putting your hands up. [00:18:42] PF: Yeah, yeah. That's me. [00:18:44] SK: I'm a soloist at my core too, and soloists love to sort of create within the sphere of influence that they have and share the products of their creations. I'll just say our creations because I'm there too. Once they're done or pretty far along, so that other people can benefit. But it's not really like a co-creating kind of thing. I have my space of creative in that space. I share with others. But let me do it in my space. So that's a little bit about the soloist. The second style that I talked about is the rebel. The thing about the rebel is the rebel’s motivated. The rebel’s creativity gets activated by the gap between what is and what could or should be. There's this sense of like what's right and just. So we saw this in any number of folks in the school system, and I see it in myself as well. When something's not right or words don't match actions, there's a part of me that gets activated. I want to deliver solutions or help solve that. My creativity gets activated there. But the thing about rebels is that right can sometimes turn into righteousness. If I go on a crusade, I’m going to alienate the folks I very much want to join me, right? So that's a little bit about the rebel. The entrepreneur, there's a lot of us that can relate to the entrepreneur, and anyone starting a business and anyone sort of initiating things inside of a business also might relate. We have this strong vision for what could be some kind of solution, a new service, a new product, a new marketing angle, a new market base. So the entrepreneur sees these opportunities, looks kind of broadly across the system. Okay, how am I going to work politics and resourcing and investments and all kinds of things to make this happen? The trick with the entrepreneur is that sometimes the vision that I have is so strong that it's hard for people to join me. When that vision may need to evolve or change, as it meets the real world and the realities and constraints of the real world, I may become disengaged or not lose interest. That's a little bit about the three styles. One of the things all three styles share in common is they believe that the ideas that they're having are mine, my idea, my idea to arrange the classroom this way, my idea to fix an injustice, my idea to start this company. You mentioned that fourth style that I suggest in Creative Together that we all need to bring forward a little bit more. The collaborator doesn't have the same sense of ownership of ideas. It doesn't matter who has the idea. From the collaborator’s perspective, it's like, “Let's move it forward. I'm playing a part. I'm contributing. We're co-creating.” You're not creating over there and then sharing it with me. We're actually making it together. We're jointly tangibly producing something together that we couldn't produce alone. So that's a little bit about – That was kind of long-winded. Sorry, but that’s – [00:21:59] PF: No. No, it wasn't. [00:21:59] SK: Talking about the four styles. [00:22:01] PF: That was great. So why is it so important for us to understand our creative style? Once we do, once we know that, what do we do with that information? [00:22:11] SK: Yeah. So I talk about developing a practice plan for bringing the collaborator forward because that's what I see in this new world of work, where things are so interdependent, where what I do here today impacts all sorts of possibilities for others and other parts of the system today and tomorrow. So bringing that collaborator forward is really critical, and first step is to understand my style, and maybe challenge some of the beliefs and assumptions that are behind that. For example, as a soloist, I may think that it's possible to create alone. But creativity is actually meant to be shared, and it's kind of an illusion that we can create alone. Even if I'm sitting in my room, and I'm doing something, I cannot separate myself from all the influences that are around me every day, the entire world that's around me. I'm taking fragments of ideas and fragments of conversations and pieces of information from something I read. I'm connecting them, right? So it's an illusion that we actually create alone. It’s also an illusion that the idea is mine, right? Okay. So maybe I realize that. I've come to terms with that. I want to develop some practices to you know, to help me open up, to help me join others sometimes, instead of having others just join me. [00:23:34] PF: I like that. I like that. There's so much wisdom in this book, and it's also fun. I was surprised like how fun it was because I thought it would feel more scholarly. This is something that everyone can really dive into. I wondered, as the author, what is it that you really hope that readers take away from this book? [00:23:54] SK: I think the big message is in this new world that we're in post-pandemic, with the pluses and minuses of how we're all connected with through technology, all of these kinds of things, in this new world that we're working in, strength will come from creating together. But it's not something we're schooled in. It's not something we're practiced in. It's not something we've been conscious about. So the book is organized as a journey to first change the story of what creativity is and who I am as a creator. If I had left it there as the author, I would feel that it was incomplete. Because the reason to do that inner work, the reason to reflect on what gifts I bring, what challenges I face, what tests I face, what my superpowers are, all those things that are in the first part of the book. The reason to do that work is so that I can create more effectively with others in business, in life through my communities, through my social activism or advocacy. Whatever ways I might want to express that, that's where the strength is going to come. So that's my core message. In the new world of work, we have to get creative together. [00:25:08] PF: That’s so excellent. Steven, I appreciate you taking the time today. This was a wonderful conversation. It's a great book. I've really, truly enjoyed this book, and I think our listeners are going to get a lot out of it as well. [00:25:21] SK: That's great. Thank you so much, Paula. [00:25:22] PF: Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:25:27] PF: That was Steven Kowalski, talking about how to discover our creativity. If you'd like to learn more about Steven and his book or follow him on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're on the website, I'd like to invite you to check out our new podcast channel, Live Happy Presents. This sponsored podcast sees us partnering with like-minded brands to bring you information about products or services that can help improve your well-being. For our first episode, we talk with Megan McDonough of the Wholebeing Institute and learn how times of uncertainty often are the best opportunity for bringing positive change into our lives. We hear Megan's own story of how such an inflection point led her to leave corporate America and pursue inner peace and how that led to creating the Wholebeing Institute. Then we'll tell you about their program to help you take the next step toward personal happiness. You can find that episode called Take the Next Steps to Happiness with Megan McDonough on our podcast tab under Live Happy Presents. That is all we have time for today. We will meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Take the Next Steps to Happiness With Megan McDonough [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PP: We all have times in our lives that are filled with uncertainty and stress. Maybe it's career upheaval, a change in our life stages or the end of a relationship. Even as we wrestle with the challenges at hand, we wonder what the next step is. I'm Paula Phelps and this is Live Happy Presents, a podcast sponsored by the Wholebeing Institute, that looks at what to do when those inflection points arise in our lives. Megan McDonough is founder of the Wholebeing Institute, which is the world's leading educational organization, teaching the science of human flourishing. She is here today to talk about how the challenges we're facing right now, no matter how daunting they seem, actually hold the opportunity to explore, strengthen and reshape your life. Then, she'll tell us about an online program offered by the Wholebeing Institute to help you take the next step to move toward happiness. [EPISODE]   [00:00:59] PP: Megan, this is an incredible program that you're going to share with us today. I have so many questions, and I'm really excited to hear about it. But I wanted to start out by learning, how did you develop this and what got you here? [00:01:12] MM: For that, we're going to go back to the year of 1999. You remember that year, that was the year everybody was saying, computers are going to crash.   [00:01:21] PP: The end of the world.   [00:01:21] MM: End of the world when computers go from 1999 to 2000, the world was going to crash. It turns out thankfully, that the world didn't crash. But in a way, my own life crashed. I remember specifically the day I was working for DuPont, and I was in their corporate offices in a meeting. Even the day I recall, it was a gorgeous spring day, one with the depth of the sky, it was a beautiful baby blue. And there were these cherry blossoms all ripe and opening. It was incredible beauty outside. But inside, it felt like I had my back against the beauty, like I couldn't see it. This was metaphorical. Actually, literally, because I was sitting in a meeting thinking, "Ah, I'm just dying here." It wasn't because I didn't have a great job. I love my job, love the people. But I remember writing on my notepad, "This is killing me."   [00:02:20] PP: Wow.   [00:02:21] MM: So for me, that day, something became very clear. My work here was done, that this was an inflection point in my life. The reason I start with that sort of background back in 1999, is because we hit these, I think of as inflection points all the time in our lives. That was a big one in my life. But many people, as part of being human, because there's no getting around it. We had times when we feel like we've hit a termination, either we get a – either our relationships come to an end, our work feels like it's dying out, our health might be going downhill, our loved ones' health might be going. We look at these points as times of great change ang angsts. It feels entirely like a terminus and it's really a very rich place. Might feel really difficult at the time. That's when I started changing and moving in different ways in the world that looked at the science of flourishing, how we can go forward in a way that really liberated us to live more into an authentic life, in a way that feels rich, and happy and satisfying. [00:03:30] PP: Well, how do we know that we're at an inflection point versus just having a bad day at work? We all have those moments where it's like, "Okay, that's it. I'm going to go home tonight. I'm going to write my letter." How do we know? [00:03:43] MM: It's a great question, because life is full of little stress points anyways. Why is this an inflection point? One of the things that your listeners can pull from your website is a handout that's related to sort of this discussion we're having today. In that handout, I listed sort of all of those who have felt sense of when life is changing for you. When do I know that this is more than just a bad day? That it’s really an inflection here. Part of that answer is, it lasts longer than just a bad mood. It's like a chronic outcoming of this sense that maybe there's got to be something more, a clarity like I had that data. I've run my length around this thing or it might come from an external situation where you lost your job, or the kids moved out of the house and all of a sudden, you have an empty nest. In many ways, these inflection points, they become ways in which we have to actually redefine who I am. Actually, look at the different ways in which we're shaping ourselves because who we knew ourselves to be before is not who we have to be in the situation, as an empty nester, as a single person, as a person who realized their job no longer works for them or has been retired. These are all things that happen. So if you look up that list of handouts, your listeners can get a sense of, "Ah, maybe this is bigger than just a bad day." Part of that is, what is the felt sense. I mean, for me back in 1999, this wasn't just one episode. This was sort of a building of a felt sense over time where I'm just – there was a sense of dryness, a desiccation and it wasn't enlivened by this very sacred life. So those are sort of the key points that point to, "Ah, this is an inflection point. This is a change of who I see myself to be and where I'm headed." [00:05:48] PP: As you're getting that sense, and you realize this is an inflection point. That realization is one thing, but what to do with it is a whole big, scary next thing. What do you do once you've realized that you need to do something? [00:06:06] MM: It's so funny, because what is the first thing we do when we're having difficulties? Where do we go? Let's ask Dr. Google. [00:06:15] PP: I was going to say the bar, but I knew that was the long answer. [00:06:16] MM: Maybe the bar. So, still, maybe we go for a drink, maybe we talk to our friends, maybe we ask Dr. Google. But what we're really doing is just sort of splattering this – not desperation, but this angst that we're feeling, and we're reaching out and trying to find answers. Interestingly enough, when I was going through that inflection point in my own life, I mean, that's exactly what I did. I was reading, I was taking a little bit from this. I was Googling and getting all sorts of junk. Because when you Google, how do I live happier, you don't get your wonderful side of living happy, because that wasn't around back in the '90s. W What you end up doing is creating a smorgasbord of, "Let me try this. Let me try that. Let me try this. Let me ask the same people that I've always asked about and they're –." They might be wonderful, supportive people, but they might not have the answers either. So the first offer is to find a place, which is what we're talking about today. So program that systematically in step by step takes you through the process of living happier now, as you move into that definition of new self. Because what we're really in and this is actually in your handout, you can feel free to fill in these blanks. The place we're actually in right now is a place that the anthropologist, Victor Turner called the liminal space. When we know that one thing is ending, we don't yet know where we're going, that's a place of uncertainty. It's that liminal space of no longer and not yet. [00:07:51] PP: That's a very scary place. [00:07:54] MM: It's a very scary place. That's why we ask a lot of people, and we have a lot of conversations, and we ask Google and we go to the bar and drink. We try to forget about our problems. Because we're searching for this sense of stability in the no longer and not yet. We don't like uncertain places. It's very scary. So when you ask, "What do we do?" First, we realize, "Oh, this is an inflection point. This is a liminal space. This is a no longer and not yet." There are other words too for it. I think this place of inflection points is a really sacred time. It's interesting when you notice these inflection points when you're younger. You might have the graduation from high school, or college, or getting married, or having children, or finding a partner or landing a new job. There's lots of sort of inflection points when you're younger that are noticing as, "Ah, this isn't change." But when you're my age, I'm 60 this year. In midlife, all of a sudden you realize, "Wow, where are the big sort of milestones? Where are the inflection points?" That's why I wanted to elevate this for your listeners that this sort of challenge that you're going through with emptiness, retirement or even younger than I am into second jobs or more children. This no longer not yet time, along with being uncertain, scary is also a sacred time. It is deeply sacred time to do some deep work about who you are as an individual, and where you're heading in doing so in a conscious way. So that it comes from within out, versus the pressure of society, of norms, of expectations driving what you should be doing. When I think of the liminal space of no longer not yet, it's a sacred time. It's also the time that the mythologist, Joseph Campbell said, "This is a hero's journey" or Jack Mezirow in learning and development called it disorienting dilemmas. They're really times where we think about, "Ooh, what’s next for us?" So instead of this trial and error of going out to Google, to the bar, to your friends. How do we apply and study the evidence-based approach to move towards happiness? That's what our certificate in holding positive psychology does. It takes these uncertain times and it spells out clearly, step by step over the course of nine months, so that you can really use the sacred time to craft not only how you're standing in this present moment, but how you're shaping yourself towards the end. [00:10:39] PP: How important is it for us to prioritize personal happiness in this journey, because we – especially as women, I will say, we take care of our families, we take care of our spouses, we take care of the people we work with. We're caretakers and we tend to put ourselves last. As you hit an inflection point, what happens when you begin to prioritize your own personal wellbeing. [00:11:04] MM: It’s so interesting. When I made this change for myself, and I was just miserable at work. Again, not because it was a horrible place to work, but because I had reached the end of my rope that of doing work. I had two young children and my husband was a stay-at-home dad. In one way, it was extremely selfish of me to leave that role. I was the breadwinner. I had all the benefits. Talk about fear when I decided to stay home, but I would leave in the morning, and my kids wouldn't be awake. I would come home at night and they were asleep.   [00:11:35] PP: Oh my God.   [00:11:37] MM: This isn't what I was leaning into. This isn't what I wanted. My husband was 1000% behind me saying, "Yeah, let's do something different. Let's experiment with this." So part of that task of prioritizing happiness is first, realizing that it doesn't just serve us. We serve our children best when we're in a place where we're open, and giving, and loving, not when we're stressed, and unhappy and demanding. The other thing I would say is that, many times it's hard. We think that happiness, we think that prioritizing the successes will bring us happiness. If only I got the right job, if only I had more money, if only I had more time, then I would be happy. It says backwards, because we know that happier people actually set the conditions for more success. So we're actually starting with the primary view. This is what Live Happy teachers all the time, right? This is the basic premise that if we begin with a sense of grounding, and who we are, and using our strengths of showing up in the world in a way that's pointed to the best of who we are. People will enjoy being around us, we'll get more done. So what is selfish about that? We tend to think as women, we need to be martyrs to flagellate ourselves to do more, get more done, to give more, give more, and let me sacrifice myself on the martyrdom of motherhood or womanhood. It's just – how's that going for you? [00:13:09] PP: Yeah. There's a lot of people I'm sure who are seeing themselves right now in that, because I think we all do. It's become so second nature for us. So give me this high-level view of the steps that you took, and that you've learned and you use toward creating personal happiness. [00:13:27] MM: Sure. This was at first a struggle for me, because this didn't come about until I created the Wholebeing Institute. With that creation of Wholebeing Institute in 20 years of evidence-based work, both in yoga and mind body, medicine and in the field of positive psychology, I was grappling around. What I hope to do is give you an overview of how to save two decades of trying into a really cohesive path. I wish I had this program 20 years ago; I would have saved myself a whole lot of time. So I'm going to give you in the next 15 minutes or so an overview of the steps that we take our students through in nine months. This is nine months of community connectedness, where we're all working towards our highest and best and learning what does it mean to live a happier life. It begins at the very start of the course with the understanding that who you are is more than who think yourself to be. What I mean by that is the concept of self. It isn't just one self that lives within us. We identify the different selves of sometimes, we have an ought self speaking to us. I really ought to just work harder and give more to my kids and give more to my family. I really ought to bring on the paycheck, stop complaining, be – I really ought to be grateful for what I have. This ought self voice inside of us that is one voice of a self. We have our authentic self that in this moment might be happy, sad, challenged, angry, all the things that can come up now. But we also have these things in our head, these concepts of ourselves that are called possible selves. That when we do this mental time travel into the future, we see ourselves in different ways. Sometimes we see ourselves a successful business people, or a loving mother, or becoming a loving grandmother. Or sometimes we have these possible selves that scare us, "I'm going to want to die broke" or "I'm going to retire and be all alone or won't have enough money to get by" or "I'll never find happiness" or "I'll never find a mate." These possible selves are all mental concepts in our head about either what we want, or what we're afraid of. Usually, at 2:00 a.m. in the morning is when we’re creative, right?   [00:15:49] PP: Exactly.   [00:15:50] MM: The first thing to do is identify all of those selves that live in this ecosystem of your own experience. Then, when we get them on paper through this process of working together in this course, you can then decide upon the narrative of the possible self that you want to start taking action on and working into today. So we actually pick a possible self that we need for ourselves, the ideal self. This is my ideal. Why that's important and why it's different than goals? Then we have some sort of measure, "Oh, this is the direction I'm heading. This is how I want to craft my life." This becomes a deliberate shaping instead of a, "Let me try this, and let me try that." It's a deliberate shaping of today towards a possible self. And you'll find that, "Wow! There were times when my possible self is here right now and today." That's what's so brilliant about it. As we go through day by day in the program, we realized that there were times as we work towards our ideal self, that we have to understand the concept of learning as a goal before we perform as a goal. I know early on 20 years ago, when I left my corporation, started my own business, I was do, do, do in a performance type mode. Let me do this, let me try that, let me get this done. What we're saying in the sacred time of a liminal space of moving towards your ideal that there is a learning goal before you get to the performance. That's why we take nine months to do it. It's interesting when I think, even in the last few years with the pandemic, a lot of people are in a place of asking themselves. "Oh, that was a completely different experience. What did I want to take from that and shape from that into the next steps?" Because we're all of a sudden entering back into the workforce and feeling, "Wow, that pace has picked up again. I'm right back to where I used to be. How can I shape this more than ever?" [00:17:51] PP: Right. And you wonder, am I still willing to tolerate that? Is that still what fulfills me even/ I think that has changed the way we receive work. [00:18:01] MM: So true. Part of that is, we look at the course in the possible selves. Part of it is about defining ourself, our ideal self. I call that selfing. Selfing in a way in a positive way.   [00:18:15] PP: I like that,   [00:18:17] MM: Right. How are we constructing who we are in our experience as humans, such that it's enlivening, and engaging, and it’s being an expression of divine expression of who we are at the core of our being. This is what I would call selfing. But there's also another part of this work that's equally important. This I like to call unselfing. What are we letting go of? What are we realizing that this isn’t helping us anymore, this way of thinking, of believing. I don't need to hold on to. One of the things we teach in the course is a five-pointed a methodology for wellbeing. It's called SPIRE. [00:19:01] PP: I love this methodology. Yes, explain this to us.   [00:19:04] MM: Each of those belong to a different category of wellbeing. First is spiritual, mindfulness and meaning. What is it that you believe in that's bigger than yourself, that you can let go and trust into, meaning in your life? Because if you go at this happiness thing as you're carrying everything on your own shoulders, it really becomes heavy in and of itself. It's just builds on the ego, so what do you need to let go of and spiritually connect with? Could be your religion, divine, nature, God, the peace, your physical wellbeing. Not only your nutrition, your eating, your exercise, but how are you using your body as a container to express that idea itself? How do you move in the world? I is for intellectual or inquiry. What are you interested in? Curiosity and openness to experience enlivens us, so what are those things that do that for you? What's the relational wellbeing you have? We know that relationships are the number one predictor of wellbeing, so cultivate consciously in its course. How to map your network of relations? Which ones are you using in a way that's elevating? Which ones might you have to just clip back a little bit because they're actually not serving you? The last one of the models is emotional wellbeing, speaking about the power of positive emotions and how to use them to broaden and build your experience. So that the power of the negativity bias that we all have is decreased. So that's the SPIRE model that we use to both build the positive self and unself, letting go of what we don't need. [00:20:38] PP: That's fantastic. I know you've seen it change your own life. You're seeing it change the lives of others. What point in the program does that hit? Is that about halfway through, three-fourths of the way through that you've hit this point of being able to let go? [00:20:52] MM: Well, it's a process. It's so interesting to watch people go through the course, because it is sort of this unfolding. This unfolding doesn't have a specific timeframe. We've had people start at the very beginning of the program, where we unveil that SPIRE methodology and say, "Ah. This is a whole different way of thinking about how I'm working in the day" to then moving on to really defining happiness for ourselves. Actually, in defining that happiness and understanding the components of it emotionally, using our strengths, and using a meaning, it opens us up. So we begin not only to learn the content, but connect with others, the faculty, the group, because we all go through it as a cohort together. In that conversation, community is one of the most powerful. We hear again, and again, it's the most powerful, is working in connectedness around this topic, this content. Because in module three, what we do is we put people into small groups. We call the learning pods. So, you will be working very closely with other people in the group, define how you're using that content for yourself, and talk about how your day is unfolding and how you're utilizing it. That's usually a game changer for people this unfolding of angst, not just about happiness, it's not just about content, it's really working with others who are defining their next step in life. Or imagine, if you're in a small group, someone thinking about retirement and you're working with a woman who is looking at a career change, right? Or a coach who's looking to build this in their business. Those rich conversations inform. Then, in the next module, you talk about what habits am I building on a day-to-day basis. This is all about habit change. So we spend a month on what are you doing every day that's elevating you and bringing you towards your ideal. It could be something as simple as taking pictures or something beautiful every day. Could be doing a vision board, clipping a picture for a vision board every day for 30 days. It doesn't matter what you do, but what you're doing is activating over 30 days, a habit creation. We talk a lot about the science. Then, because no man is an island and a woman is an island, we talk about relationships. How do you really have conversations and relationships that are active and constructive? Mapping out that relational list is so important to understand. It's only then, after we've gone through all of this work, that we asked you what goals are important to you. [00:23:32] PP: That's the opposite of what we’re used to. I love that. [00:23:37] MM: Most people will start with – and then, do you ever find yourself picking a million goals, because you don't know which one is the right one to pick it and try –here, it's almost – with the start of this new year, people have already probably saying, "Oh, that was the wrong goal. I don't want to do that one." But after you understand what happiness is, how you're applying it in group conversations, and how you're creating habits, then you can ask yourself, "Okay. What's important to me? What goal do I want to reach?" So we have a change model where we get clear on what we want, we activate hope. We then activate our actions, and we go forward and navigate this change going for those things that are important to us. So this is the change model. We spend a month on this. Because our goals never go the way we planned them out in our head, right? Obstacles arise, difficulties arise, irritating people arise. The next month we spend on resilience, right? Things are not going to go the way we expected. Resilience is key. How do we have a setback, and then move forward, and then life happens and we move around? How do we think about in context of mindset, and a way of moving forward where we become better at resilience, of moving, of expounding no matter what happens, we're bouncing back, or bouncing forward passed where we were before. I teach the next module, which is the module on leadership. Because at the end of the day, you're becoming a leader in your own mind? How do we think about the power of leadership in our own life? What that does that mean in context with others? So we begin to actually be a hero in our own journey instead of the victim played out by others. Then we come together again, the last module, which is where the students present their final project, which is what was most personally compelling to them. You started this question, when does the unfolding happen? Anywhere and everywhere again, and again in that process, because this human life is about unfolding. What we try and create in the connectedness of the program is a positive, upward spiral that is ever broadening and growing over time. We keep seeing more, and more and more. It doesn't end even after – [00:25:59] PP: Even after the course.   [00:26:00] MM: It doesn't end.   [00:26:02] PP: Let me ask you. What are some of the most compelling stories you've seen in people, some of the transformations that you've seen in people who have gone through your program? [00:26:11] MM: What’s been really interesting, and one of the things that we look at is, what difference does this make in your day-to-day life. There was this one woman, I remember specifically was in tears when we first got together, because she was so miserable in her very highly successful job. She's just – you could tell, she was one of these goal getters, she would just get things done. She says, "But I'm miserable. I'm just absolutely a cranky woman." Her final project was about daily blessings. She set up this mason jar in her home, so when she got together with dinner with her husband and her children, they created a family ritual of counting blessings, and they would put blessings into that jar. Talk about it and put it into the jar. And it became sort of a habit in the family. So it changed not only her life. She came back like a completely different person, because her final project was about counting blessings, not burdens. She came back a completely different person. Her family life had changed, because of that interaction. Another example are people who are coaches, and I've been approaching their coaching work from the premise of how to be a good coach. What they wanted to do is understand how to ask questions that elicited the best out of the clients that they were working with. So they actually wanted the skills of positive psychology to increase their practice of coaching. What they found happening is that, help them get clear about who they were coaching, what they were coaching people towards, so they get clarity on their own business and their own self in it. So we have a lot of solopreneurs, who – whether they have therapists, or coaches, or teachers, wellness practitioners that not only want to use this in their practice, but they use it for themselves. So they go through this program, and they realize that their life is happier as they help others in their life. [00:28:13] PP: What a benefit of – you're doing it for somebody else, but then you end up being able to give this gift to yourself and a lasting one. I love the fact that people are going through this with someone else, because I've seen that power of connection. I know, I've been in programs where, say, a woman didn't feel supported by her family, or by her husband for going through this. That is so important to have that little community. So even if the rest of your world is kind of disintegrating or not supportive, you've got that community that you've built. I imagine that that community lasts long after the program. [00:28:51] MM: Long after. We've been in business for 10 years; we still have our first small groups back 10 years ago tell me that they're still meeting as a group. I guess, this is sort of close out this conversation by asking viewers to think about. If you stayed on the trajectory of doing what you're doing now, where will you be in nine months? If you took the program and helped you shape possible self future into your ideal self, what would look different in your day, nine months from today? That's really the promise of stepping into the science of human flourishing. [00:29:24] PP: That is so powerful. Megan, we're going to tell our listeners where they can learn more about your program. We're going to send them to our website. You've got some great handouts that we're going to let them download from there for free. Tell them more about the program and let them know how they can sign up for this. As we finish this out, is there any other message that we haven't covered today that you really hope everybody hears as I walk away from this? [00:29:50] MM: I want to say thank you to you. We've worked together for years. So my first thing is just gratitude for you in the work at Live Happy. The second thing I want to say is I look forward to seeing your listeners in the course and getting to work with them, and a certificate of Wholebeing Positive Psychology. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:30:10] PP: That was Megan McDonough, founder of the Wholebeing Institute, talking about how we can take the next step to move toward happiness. If you visit our website at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab, you can download a free set of worksheets to help you identify what internal signals you're receiving about personal change, and help you think about how this can become a time of positive growth. We'll also tell you more about Megan, the Wholebeing Institute, and the certificate in Wholebeing Positive Psychology and how this nine-month program can help you walk through the changes you're experiencing. We'll also give you a special link just for live Happy listeners to learn more about the program and how you can be a part of it. Enrollment is underway now for the program that begins in March. Again, just visit livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. We hope you have enjoyed this special episode of Live Happy Presents. From Megan McDonough and myself, Paula Phelps, thank you for joining us and remember to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Discovering the Power of Stillness with Jeanine Thompson  [INTRODUCTION]   [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 399 of Live Happy Now. After a busy holiday season, we all could use a bit of stillness in our lives, and this week's guest is going to tell us how to find it. I'm your host, Paula Felps. And this week, I'm talking with Jeanine Thompson, a former clinical psychotherapist and Fortune 50 executive, whose new book, 911 From Your Soul, is all about how to learn to listen for what you need and discover your greatest potential. Today, she's here to talk about how important it is to learn to do nothing and listen to the lessons that are waiting for us in that stillness. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:43] PF: Jeanine, thank you so much for coming on Live Happy Now. [00:00:47] JT: I am so excited and delighted to be with you, Paula, and your listeners. [00:00:53] PF: We're delighted to have you. Our timing on this is so perfect. It's the beginning of the year. People are really being reflective and thinking about what they want to do differently, and your idea of stillness is so important. But it's a word that's become almost foreign in this busy world that we live in. I mean, we are always on. It's 24/7. So I guess before we talk about how to even accomplish that, can you tell us what you mean when you mention stillness? [00:01:22] JT: Yeah. So stillness, to me, means awareness, shifting our attention from our busy brain, our 70,000 thoughts a day that data says we have, shifting our awareness from our head into the inner intelligence, our inter Internet. Typically, I tell people place one hand on your heart center, one on your sacral or near your belly button, and just close your eyes. We follow a touch in the body. So it'll help you move from the hamster wheel into the eternal infinite wisdom that is just waiting to support and guide you. [00:02:08] PF: So is stillness a physical app? Or is it all in your brain? Or where does stillness take place? [00:02:17] JT: I think it's a multi-level experience, right? So I think that there is a physical shifting of attention from the busy brain to the core of your body. I think it's an energetic intention. I usually tell people, say the words I am still. Even if your brain keeps rattling on about what you got to do or what you didn't do sufficiently the hour before, there's an energetic intention to say I am still. When you connect with prana, that vital life force consciously moving in our body, you're making a spiritual connection to say, “I want to connect with the truth of who I am.” So it's this multi-level both practice and experience. [00:03:12] PF: It doesn't need to take a whole lot of time. It's something you can do real quickly. Like if there's anxiety, if there's something going on in your life, you can do these little quick hits to get your stillness. Is that correct? [00:03:24] JT: Yes. Thank you for saying that. That is the truth, and it's really important because I had a narrative. My narrative used to sound like there is no way I can be still. You don't understand how busy I am. You do not live inside this head. It never shuts up. I was in a plane 2 to 300,000 miles a year, a single mom. Stillness was unproductive. By the way, I can't do it. So we must have a narrative that says we just can't be still. Yet it's the most natural act. It's how we're born in stillness. It's actually the truth of our highest nature, peace, quiet, stillness. We just have been duped a little bit along the way. We got seduced by all the external expectations and invitations that constantly moving meant worthiness, meant productivity. So everybody can do it. I tell people, if you are like me, and you have a narrative that says you can't, just commit to 30 seconds. [00:04:35] PF: Oh, wow. We can do that. [00:04:37] JT: We can do that. Anybody can do that, right? 30 seconds to two minutes. Close your eyes. The brain data actually shows on brain imaging, if we don't take a break every hour, our stress levels are significantly higher. So just close your eyes. Feel the breath. Feel that hand on the belly expand and fall and expand and fall. So everyone can do it. If that busy brain of yours kicks up and says, “You must do this. Don't forget to do this.” I want you simply to say, “Noted.” Don't fight the thoughts. If we try and stop them or fight them, they get more persistent. So simply say, “Noted.” Retouch, hand on heart center, hand on belly, feel the breath again. So do that for sure in the morning, ideally before you even hop out of bed, if you can. Then ideally, we would say after every transition. So after we finish this meeting, I will go into breath, just as I began before you with breath. That's true for people at home. If you're working from home, between every kind of transition or shift, close your eyes and practice being still. [00:06:00] PF: And does that become a habit for you now? Because you've been practicing it, you teach it, and you definitely walk your talk. So is it something that comes naturally? Or do you have to remind yourself? [00:06:11] JT: No. Now, it's like brushing my teeth. I would never leave the house without brushing my teeth first. I don't begin my day without being still and getting centered in who I want to be and how I want to show up in the world that day. That's very different for me. I used to get up to my device. What emails did I need to answer? What does my day look like, kids needing love and attention as they woke up in the morning? I still will do all those things, but I do them differently. I make sure I can start my day in stillness and with consciously connecting within. [00:06:57] PF: What a huge difference that makes. I know that I've started a practice of not turning my phone on until after I am done with breakfast. You cannot imagine. Well, maybe you can. How crazy this makes some people. It's not that their need is so urgent that I address it. It's that they can't imagine like why are you not talking until eight in the morning. It makes a huge difference in the way my day feels as I enter it. [00:07:24] JT: Absolutely. Listen, we even know that I'm the beauty of the and girl. We know that from science. We know it from brain imaging. We know it from the High Performance Institute, that when you start with self, you connect with self first. You experience more satisfaction during the day, more calm during the day, better productivity. You're not reacting all day to someone else’s agenda. But then I would say, energetically, you will come to feel a sense of taking command. What really matters today? What are the real priorities? Calming the body, it's incredible. It really is life-changing, actually, that simple act of being with a breath and being still. [00:08:13] PF: Yeah. I want to talk in a moment about the benefits of practicing stillness. But I'm really interested in hearing how you discovered the importance of stillness because to your point, you were traveling. You were a busy professional. You're a single mom. I mean, it's like how did you go from that pace to becoming the go-to person on stillness? [00:08:34] JT: Yeah. Thankfully, it was through the intelligence of the universe. In all candor, I wouldn't have gotten there on my own. Had my other solutions, had always been on call almost 24/7 because I had an international role, had that continued to work for me in my life, I probably wouldn't have changed. I think that's true for your listeners too. Sometimes, we know something needs to be shifted. But honestly, until life starts to get really loud or like, “I'll get to it, but not today.” [00:09:06] PF: Right. [00:09:07] JT: Right? So the practice of stillness came through a time I was going through a 911 in my soul, from my soul. It was a time when the details of my life looked really good from the outside. People would just like, “Gosh, wow. Big job. She loves her kids. She's got a great relationship, really cool travel, the accoutrements of success.” Yet every day, I was successful yet unfulfilled. I had this little whisper that said, “Yoo-hoo, there's something more for you. There's something more through you.” Make a long story short, I ignored the whispers because it wasn't in line with my human plan. I wasn't to leave that job until my kids graduated, until I had reached a certain security. I had a human plan. Then there was the plan of my soul. Ultimately, my familiar solution just didn't work, and I was led to yoga and Reiki and energy work, which is hilarious because I was an evidence-based psychotherapist before I was a Fortune 50 executive. I thought it was woo-woo. I thought I did not have time for this. It taught me that I wasn't just a human being. I was actually this spiritual being traversing in a wonder suit of a body. [00:10:34] PF: I love that. [00:10:35] JT: It taught me that I was living my life through my false self, through a lens of not enough. Don't rest. It's not enough. There's always something to do. I needed to be more. So ultimately, it was through my life kind of falling apart on some levels, my familiar identity being shaken. When our familiar solutions are shaken, we’re invited, but it felt forced at the time to turn – [00:11:06] PF: Absolutely. [00:11:09] JT: To tune inward. I now realize that that yearning, that restlessness, those challenges weren't really a crisis at all. They were the greatest invitation of my life, masquerading in the details of discomfort. [00:11:28] PF: That's so important to hear because I think that happens to us a lot, where our plan is not working out according to plan, and we keep trying to force it. It’s difficult, and it's almost unnatural to us to sit back and say, “Okay, what is being taught to me? What am I supposed to do for next steps,” instead of, “What do I want to do as my next steps?” That's a change in thinking that takes some time. [00:11:55] JT: It's a huge change in thinking. I call it earth view and soul view. In our earth view, we say, “I got a problem. Fix it. I've got an issue. Find the solution.” Go external. Go to the experts. Go to your friends. Go to somebody. Got a problem. Fix it. The soul view says, “You already know the answer. Rest. Be in the discomfort. Talk to it. Say what do you got. What do you have to say? What do you want me to know?” It's about allowing. It's about resting in the stillness of your breath or resting in the stillness of a sunset or perhaps resting in the stillness of a freeing run, anything that softens that busy mind. When you rest in that stillness, the treasure trove of intelligence you actually are starts bubbling up and whispering. You'll start to get an inspired idea. You'll see number sequences. You'll see animals. You'll be in a store, and you'll overhear something, and you're like, “Ha, that's it.” All of a sudden, that shift from outward is my answer to tuning inward becomes your greatest lighthouse, your greatest guiding path to your highest life, honestly. [00:13:25] PF: Don't you think it’s interesting because we resist that? It's like I want the answers. I want the answers and the thing that will ultimately give us those answers. We intrinsically know that we can get the answers that way, but we push against it. It's like, “Nope, not going to sit down and be still with myself. I'm not going to listen to what's going on because I've got too much going on in my head.” So we resist it. [00:13:49] JT: We absolutely resist it until we can't. So that's what happened to me. There was a time where I actually had heard my truth. I heard the inner whispers. I heard I was to be like a matchmaker for the soul, helping people actually reunite with the part of themselves they've lost sight of. Most of my folks were over functioners. They were too much of a caretaker or a peacekeeper, lived for others, and they truly lost sight of themselves. They got to midlife and they're like, “Who am I? What made me come alive?” So avoidance numbing, external solutions, we'll all do them for a while. But I promise you, for all of the listeners, there will come a time where life is going to say there's a greater possibility for you. So I'm going to get a little noisy. I'm going to get a little uncomfortable. But ultimately, you long to meet you, and I'm going to help you remember the truth of who you are. [00:15:00] PF: That's so powerful. Can you talk about what the benefits are when we begin to practice stillness? Let's talk because there are so many. Your book is just such a magical guide to all the things that this can unlock. Let's talk about some of those benefits. [00:15:15] JT: So one of them is clarity. This is – It’s a noisy world. [00:15:20] PF: Yeah. And it’s getting noisier. [00:15:21] JT: It is. It’s exquisitely beautiful. There's so much beauty and love every day and a lot of heightened division, a lot of struggle. So there's a lot of and. I think one of the first benefits is clarity. No one else, and I don't care what their expertise is, I don't care who they are, will never know your unique truth. So one is discernment of personal truth. Secondly is access. We have this treasure trove. It is amazing jewels of the soul; kindness, compassion, love, infinite intelligence. Truly, this wisdom of all ages resides within us, and it connects us to – I would call it the field of all possibility. So it gives us an access that we cannot access in our normal 70,000 thoughts a day. Our mind is going to go to what's wrong. I got to fix it. I got to protect, right? That's our mind. Our soul says, “You are literally everything you seek. Rest, dear one, and I'll show you the way.” [00:16:34] PF: It’s beautiful. [00:16:35] JT: Alignment. When we pause, whether it's 30 seconds, 2 minutes, 15 minutes, whatever it is, we get to choose again. We can choose a higher quality thought. We can choose a higher quality action. Especially when we get triggered, most of it's automatic. 40 to 90 percent of what we do every day was repetition. It's behaviors that are habitual. So stillness helps us choose a better choice. Rest and renewal. I think the breath is a sanctuary. It's better than your best vacation. It is more peaceful than anywhere you've ever been. It can be a grand adventure. I mean, it is just this sanctuary of goodness, and we all need it. We're all actually trying too hard. If we'd allow just a little bit of faith and willingness, we can let go of the steering wheel. Or at least let go of their grip. [00:17:39] PF: We don't feel like we ever can. There are so many people who feel like, “If I take my hands off the wheel for a moment, this whole thing, and there's about 30 cars connected to it.” [00:17:48] JT: The house of cards. [00:17:49] PF: It’s going to crash. [00:17:51] JT: Oh, man. Do I have empathy of any one of you listening right now who is saying you don't understand. I can't do this, or it's all going to fall apart. I wish I could look you in the eyes and give you a giant hug and say, “I actually do understand. I don't understand your unique life circumstances. However, I really understand the reluctance and the fear of letting go because you're worried your life is going to crash.” So I totally understand that, and then I'm going to ask you to say, name five times because I bet she can. Name five times in your life where kind of the synchronicity happened. You met this person who opened up a door. You drove down the street, and you don't even remember stopping at the stop signs. Or you could’ve hit the car in front of you. By the grace of whatever you believe, the great mystery in life, the universe, you didn't hit that car. There have been so many times in our life. There's this brilliance that weaves together our life experiences. It's our training ground. It's our training ground to live our highest possibility, and it's a falsehood. I believed. I made myself sick in my 20s with ulcerative colitis. Because I was so perfectionistic, I thought he had to control everything. So it was a lot of lessons learned along the way that, actually, as powerful as I am, I am a co-creative agent, and there's also something else going on. There's a little something bigger than me going on here. Thank God, we never travel alone. [00:19:37] PF: Yeah. Yeah. That's wonderful. What a powerful thing to recognize. You and I talked about this a little bit before we started recording that, that our age kind of factors into it. Because when we're younger, when we're in our youth, in our 20s, and even into our 30s, we can go on autopilot. There's so much that we can just like, “Here's our path. We know we're supposed to go to college, get these jobs, do this, start this family.” Then you hit this point where it's like, “Wait, I've been on this treadmill, and I didn't even mean to jump on this particular treadmill.” [00:20:11] JT: Yeah. You know what? Days turned into decades like in a blink of an eye. So I think for a lot of people in their 40s and beyond, there's this sense of urgency like, “Wow, I cannot believe how fast it's gone.” They want to make sure that they don't have regret, honestly, that they look back. I do a lot of hospice work from my – The last 30 years. I learned from my hospice patients, in particular, that they never wanted to look back and said, “Geez, I wish I would have worked a little more,” which they usually will say the moments that mattered most were the moments they connected with something meaningful for themselves, connected something meaningful, or shared a meaningful connection with someone else. It was truly the small things, the ordinary things that became extraordinary. [00:21:16] PF: When we start practicing stillness, intentionally practicing stillness, do we start finding that more? Do we start recognizing that? Is it already there, and we just recognize it more? What really happened? [00:21:28] JT: It's already there. It is in our truth. We really – Our pure essence is simply love, joy, peace, wisdom, compassion, those jewels of the soul. That's our true essence. The longer we were in earth school, I call this gig earth school, we got encumbered. We kind of got covered up. We were told by the outside world, “You are not enough. You don't dress right. You don't weigh the right thing. You don't have the right bank account. You don't have the right education. You don't have the right house.” If you turn on the news, it's some version of you are not enough. So our real work here in earth school is to uncover all of that gunk, all of those old messages, all of those old narratives. That's why it's so important to sink into the deeper truth and listen to what the highest self in you wants to whisper. [00:22:28] PF: I love that. So another thing that I want to make sure we touch on is you talk about stillness that can be active. So this is great news. There are some people who the idea of just sitting down and being still is actually kind of horrifying. [00:22:45] JT: Yes. We totally get that. [00:22:47] PF: So explain this. Tell us because you talk about it can be music, running, dancing, weightlifting. I mean, this is great news for a lot of people. [00:22:55] JT: So I'm the beauty of the and girl. There are quiet and there are active. So quiet might be with a breath, might be with a sunset, might be with a flickering candle, etc. Then there are more active pursuits if they get into a place of transcendence. What I mean by that is a lot of people will say when they go on a run, there's a certain point where their mind softens, and they just feel more free, right? In dance, there's a certain point. You're almost not listening to the music, and you're just moving, right? So the active pursuits are active pursuits that also allows for an emptying. So the hamster wheel is not spinning. You do you and commit to starting with 30 seconds to two minutes of just being with your breath. So let's do the beauty of the and. If you really want to be active in physical exercise, that's different than an active pursuit that softens the mind. Does that make sense? [00:23:59] PF: Oh, interesting. Yeah. [00:24:00] JT: Agree to learn to still again. See, it's a falsehood we've taught ourselves, just like I did. I can't do this. I can't sit still. I’ve got too much to do. It's not true. We've got to tell a new narrative. This might feel funky. It might feel a little weird. I might not even be still. I'm practicing stillness, and I'm not still. I'm a little antsy in my chair. My little head is racing away. That's okay. I promise you in time, if you just commit to learning to practice stillness with the breath and whatever way you want, in time, you will start to reclaim more of your natural true nature. [00:24:44] PF: What kind of changes do you see like the subtle? We talked about the benefits of it, but what kind of changes can people kind of look for that like, okay, this is adjusting me, and I'm thinking and living differently? [00:24:57] JT: I think that they'll come to what I call expanded solutions, kind of things that they had never thought of before. All of a sudden, they get an inspired idea that maybe takes them down a path they would have never have went to. So there's some inspired ideation that happens. There is a sense of empowerment. It's like, “Oh, my gosh. I always thought it was outside of me. And now, I recognize that it is within me.” There is – And this is a key. One of the things we're all searching for is what is sacred to us. What is precious to us? When we get to this stage in life, I have people ask the question. If you don't like the word sacred, use the word precious. What is sacred within me? Just rest with the answer. Either that day or that moment, you're going to start to notice maybe even something in a magazine or on a billboard or whatever. It’s like, “Wow. [inaudible 00:25:57]. I want to go play with that again.” When you start asking those questions, what’s sacred within me, around me, and beyond me, you are going to start to feel a spark of feeling a little more alive, more empowered, more of your natural true self. [00:26:18] PF: That is so wonderful. What do you hope that the people listening today who are hearing your voice, what do you want them to walk away from this with? [00:26:27] JT: Oh, my gosh. I want you to get so excited because there's somebody you have been longing your whole life to meet, and it's you. It's your true nature. It is that part of you that knows exactly where you're headed, what this year is about, what this life is about, how to surf through the seasons of life with more ease and more joy. So I'm excited for you to reconnect with the deeper truth of who you are. [00:27:02] PF: That's excellent. Jeanine, thank you, again, for sitting down with me today. You have so much to teach us. This was a wonderful experience, and I really appreciate your time today. [00:27:12] JT: Thank you. It's been a gift to be with you and gift to be with your listeners as well. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:27:23] PF: That was Jeanine Thompson, talking about how to discover stillness. If you'd like to learn more about Jeanine and her book, 911 From Your Soul, or follow her on social media, visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, we invite you to sign up for Jeanine’s free email course that will walk you through the steps to help you learn to listen and lean into the stillness. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Create Your Fun Habit With Mike Rucker  [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 398 of Live Happy Now. It's a brand new year, and we're all thinking about creating new habits. So why not make yours a fun one? I'm your host, Paula Felps. And this week, I'm talking with Mike Rucker, an esteemed organizational psychologist whose new book, The Fun Habit, looks at how the pursuit of joy and wonder can change your life. He's here to talk about how we can learn to prioritize fun, and how that can make us both happier and more productive. And as you'll learn, it can also improve the lives of those around us. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:39] PF: Mike, thank you so much for coming on Live Happy Now. [00:00:43] MR: Thank you so much for having me. [00:00:44] PF: We've been talking about this for a while. We had to wait for your book to get out. Just talking before the show, there were so many delays because of COVID. So first of all, congratulations on release of The Fun Habit. [00:00:57] MR: Thank you so much. Yeah. It's been a long time coming, so I'm excited to be – [00:01:00] PF: Yeah, it has. It has. I feel like we've been talking about it for a couple years, at least. [00:01:04] MR: Yeah. The pub date’s gotten moved twice. Once, it was like a soft one. Then this last one, June to January, was a hard one. You know, like – [00:01:13] PF: But we’re here now. [00:01:15] MR: Yeah. That’s right. [00:01:16] PF: What a great way to – [00:01:16] MR: [inaudible 00:01:16] are, right? [00:01:17] PF: Yeah. What a way to kick off the year. It's so interesting because you have such a distinguished background, including being a charter member of the International Positive Psychology Association. So from the outside, we would expect that you'd have the whole happiness thing down. But as we learn in your book, that was not the case. So can you kick us off by talking about how you learned to recognize the distinction between happiness and having fun? [00:01:43] MR: Yeah. I'm still a believer in happiness, right? So I’ll explain that. But the backstory is I was a charter member. Positive psych could have been something prior to that organization coming together. Csikszentmihalyi wrote Flow years before. 2009 is when that kind of came together. It was really Marty Cyclamen that kind of created the movement, him and Ed [inaudible 00:02:08]. I think authentic happiness had come out the year prior, and there was this need for it, right? The movement was doing something positive. Up until that point, clinical psychology was really just to treat deficits, and there are some amazing tools for folks that are living a life well to create things to make it better. So those tools were certainly fairly useful to me during that time, up until 2016. I still benefit from gratitude journaling, I still keep a mindfulness practice, and I still value happiness. What had gone awry was I had become overly concerned with my own happiness. So I'll explain that distinction, and that is really when something goes wrong. In my case, it was the death of my younger brother quite suddenly and just having to process that all at once. Then these two aren't related. But a couple months later, after years of being an endurance athlete, not professional or anything, but really just enjoying that and that way to mitigate, I've always had low level anxiety. I haven't needed medication. I've used fitness to mitigate anxiety. I identified as a runner, for sure, and I was told I had advanced osteoarthritis, probably due to an injury. It wasn't genetic. But it probably tore my labrum and just a 220-pound guy doing a couple Ironmans. [00:03:38] PF: Right. That'll start doing some [inaudible 00:03:39] there. [00:03:40] MR: Yeah. But because it happened at such a young age, I was told I shouldn't run again. So I lost my younger brother, found out that this identity I had as a runner was destroyed, and then this third thing happened. It wasn't really misfortune, but I just finished my doctor [inaudible 00:03:56] and graduated. My wife, who had supported me through those six years of academic work, we had two children during that process, so you can only imagine. [00:04:05] PF: Wow. That was home. [00:04:07] MR: Yeah, right. Again, over optimizing for a lot of stuff. She got an amazing opportunity, and this amazing opportunity manifested and wanted to have her back. But I was still going through a lot of stuff, and that essentially moved us away from our support network of family and friends. So I wanted to figure out how to will myself to be happy, and the more I was doing that paradoxically, I was becoming really unhappy. Because I am a researcher, I identified fairly quickly that something wrong was happening, and I was getting close to probably low-level clinical depression. But I understood that there was some sort of awareness that I was doing it to myself, and I don't know if I would call it serendipitous. It was just more happenstance and good timing. Emerging research was coming out that you're probably familiar with. A professor I liked a lot is Dr. Iris Mauss out of the University of California Berkeley. But her work has been replicated now that here in the Western world, folks like myself, how I found myself in 2016, that are kind of just always chasing happiness, have a pretty direct line to being pretty unhappy, paradoxically. So, wow, okay, so here's sort of empirical evidence to suggest what's happening to me. But if that's the case, what can I do? Because I really want to get back to being happy. Over time, it started to change my perception. Like, okay, life can suck sometimes, but I have more control over sort of shifting my life to the good side, rather than kind of wallowing in this act of rumination and introspection, which is essentially wasting energy, waiting for happiness to come, when I can kind of move in that direction and not necessarily chase it. Just live a joyful life that things that enrich me like pro-social behavior, hobbies that really connect me to things that I like, make me realize that it's not just about myself. Again, just understand that I do have some autonomy over my time. [00:06:09] PF: As adults, even though we all want to have fun, we don't make it a priority. So what in your research did you find is keeping us from doing that? [00:06:19] MR: A lot of it's rooted in the Puritan work ethic that's still pervasive here in the West. Quite literally, we think our self-worth comes from how we can contribute, right? What's unfortunate is there's been this kind of fast evolution from what Daniel Pink calls algorithmic work to heuristic work, whether – You could call that the knowledge economy, whatever you want. Unfortunately, in this new paradigm of work, we don't know where the goalposts are, right? Also, because of advances in technology, we're always kind of connected to our workplace and that – [00:06:54] PF: Yeah. Our workdays do not end, where like we just fall asleep. [00:06:57] MR: Yeah. I mean, from the moment we wake up till our head hits the pillow, there are a lot of people that are always on their phone. If they get a notification, they feel like it's a prime to have to answer it. Because of that, even when we think we're in a state of leisure or a state of our domestic duties like enjoying time with our wife or our kids, half the time, it's still an extension of work because if our phone buzzes, we pick it up. What we know is that, subconsciously, that essentially just becomes an extension of work. We've never created this transition ritual from work to leisure. So the rub there is that the same way that we champion people that lived in a state of sleep deprivation in the ‘90s, like – [00:07:44] PF: Oh, yeah. I remember that. [00:07:46] MR: Yeah. I fell victim to it. I never took down the post because I didn't want to be inauthentic. But if you search deep in my website, I think I was like, “Oh, Gary Vee is amazing.” And like, “Yeah.” [00:07:57] PF: If I can do four hours of sleep a week. [00:07:57] MR: That’s right. Yeah. So we now know that's asinine, right? Like the research is in. If you're not getting sleep, a year later, you're not even going to be able to work, right, because that is a direct line to all sorts of physiological and psychological ills. We're now finding that that is true. This is emerging research. So I like kind of being on the forefront of it. Emerging research is suggesting that when we're not engaged in leisure, so whatever that means, if we're really being honest, there's two to five hours a day that we could potentially recapture, depending on where we are in life. We're not doing that. What we're doing is essentially pacifying that time, a lot of times. If you don't believe me, just look at the health meter on your iPhone or your Android and see how much time you're on social media apps or some sort of mobile game. Ultimately, we know that those seem to be fun. But when we look back and ask ourselves, how did you spend that time? Tell me what you saw on social media between the hours of 4:00 and 6:00? Your phone says that you're on that. There will just be a shoulder shrug because that essentially displaced boredom or discomfort, or it wasn't something that really added to your betterment or attracted joy. [00:09:14] PF: How do you build in little pieces of fun? Because it's not like you have to take a vacation. It's not like you even need to take 30 minutes. You can do something in five minutes to add a little fun to your day, and that's going to really change your brain. Can you talk about how we work that in? [00:09:31] MR: You need to start by creating space, and then we're going to get into play model. So we'll discuss how to do that. But I think, first, you need to look at activities that aren't adding anything to your life, right? In the book, I call them the nothing, like this time that's just contributing. Because I think where positivity kind of got off the rails, now we term it toxic positivity, is that everything needs to be additive, right? So kind of falling back on my understanding of system design, it's just so hard for us to remove things, right? Because that's just – We inherently think that adding stuff on is always better. So we start by figuring out what are those moments that we can capture back. So a simple one could essentially just be your lunch hour, right? Like a lot of us will just kind of hang out. If we're working in a workspace, we'll just kind of hang out and let that hour pass. So I like this metal frame of like if you can't go on holiday, maybe you can take a whole hour, kind of playing into your point, right? [00:10:32] PF: That’s great. [00:10:33] MR: So can you schedule a time with a friend, if you're more of an introvert? Because fun doesn't have to be a high arousal activity. Like I love [inaudible 00:10:40] in this area, right? Like it could just be enjoying a book, but recapturing something so that you can enjoy yourself in a pleasant way, rather than just kind of trying to get through the next hour. So you're exactly right. Like, what are those opportunities, especially if you – A time for where you can add in elements. Now, I will be careful on that. I talked about this in the book that task switching is definitely another way to become unhappy, right? We know that if you're kind of just always moving around from task to task, even if they're pleasurable, the cognitive load of that can just zap your energy. We don't want to over optimize your life, but we do want to create the space so that you can exchange things that really aren't adding anything to your betterment, and figure out how you can have more joy in those spaces. [00:11:28] PF: Yeah. I think that could be a fun exercise in itself to kind of step back and say, “What is it that brings me fun? What are things that I want to do?” Because I think so many of us jump on this treadmill. If someone says, “What do you do for fun,” it’s deer in the headlights. They're like, “I don't know. I haven't had fun for a while.” So I think too there's that part, just that brainstorming of what brings me joy, what is fun for me. [00:11:55] MR: Yeah, exactly. You're spot on, and that's like another one of those interesting headwinds that I mentioned, like the resistance to that, because it does seem super silly, right? Like so many of us, I know how to have fun. Yeah, you know. But you need to remind yourself. [00:12:08] PF: But what do you do for it? Yeah. [00:12:10] MR: Yeah, that's right. So being premeditated and just making a simple list, one, it's fun if you approach the activity with curiosity, right? Like not to stay and like, “Ah, I can't believe I have to do this to have fun.” But like, “Hey, let me remind myself of what lights me up,” right? So that exercise of brainstorming can be fun in and of itself. Even if it's not fun, it's sort of a quick, necessary step because you want to remember. What are the things that really did bring you joy before you had all of this responsibility? Some might not suit you anymore. So you can get creative with this list and make it expansive. Then figure out what is it that you can incorporate and start figuring out, with the space that you created, what to do. [00:12:53] PF: One thing you mentioned in your book, and this can really help people out, it’s like what's your fun type. That’s great because you actually can go onto your website, and there's an assessment quiz, and it's very easy. It's not like you have to study for it. Then you figure out like, okay, this is your fun type. So maybe these are the kinds of things that you should look for when you're creating your little fun list. [00:13:15] MR: Yeah. I think that one was – I did graduate in sciences. I think everyone is all for fun types. It just kind of points to where you seem to really enjoy yourself. [00:13:25] PF: What’s your dominant? [00:13:26] MR: Yeah. But to your point, you could use kind of whimsical tools like that. Or you could identify, in the chapter on fun and friends, who are your fun friends and see if you can create more opportunities with them. Because, generally, if you've identified them as fun friends, they can be great mentors in getting you to have more fun, right? [00:13:46] PF: Absolutely. [00:13:46] MR: What are they doing? Because I do believe it becomes problematic if you're overly marketed things, or if you're mindlessly scrolling social media, and just kind of going, “Oh, I wish I could do that. I wish I could do that.” Because that's just incoming stimulus, right? It's not really an inward like, “Oh, I really identify with that.” Some people are mindful. Like if you're into crafting and you only follow crafters, like there's always the exceptions to the rule, right? But a lot of us are sort of – If we don't do it with our own interests at heart, we’re sort of like, “Oh, they're having so much fun.” Well, they are. But is that what you would find fun, like if you were really in their shoes? Do you really want to be on a yacht? Because the last time I remember, you would throw up every time you’re on a boat, right? So – [00:14:33] PF: That is a trap of social media because you're like, “Oh, that looks like so much fun.” But then, yes, when you break it down, it's like do you want to do that? It's like, “Oh, heck, no. No.” [00:14:40] MR: Well, and it’s curated, right? Like these are post photos of people that are trying to gain your attention. It's called the attention economy for a reason. But, ultimately, if you fall victim to that, and you think that that's real life, that can become problematic because, again, it goes back to what I fell victim to like, “Oh, my gosh. Happiness is here on Instagram, and I'm way back here in reality.” All of a sudden, that gap between normal reality and this fictional reality becomes like – You start to identify like, “Well, I'm not where I want to be,” and that can slowly become identifying as an unhappy person, which isn't necessarily true. It's the subjective reality you've created, and it's clear from the evidence that it's kind of reverse cognitive behavioral therapy. You now have these negative scripts that you're not even necessarily consciously aware of. They're leading you to believe that you're unhappy, when that's not necessarily true. [00:15:38] PF: That's why your play model is so fantastic. It's a great way to assess how we're spending our days. Can you talk about that? Explain what it is and how we can use it, so we can incorporate more fun into our lives. [00:15:50] MR: It’s essentially a sorting mechanism. So it helps you identify like things that really have gone off the rails, right? So play stands for pleasing, living, agonizing, and yielding. Pleasing activities are activities that are really easy to do, right? Like walking your dog, taking a nature walk, engaging in pro-social behavior with the friends that you enjoy. The living quadrant takes some energy, but ultimately leads to really engaging activities. So that can be mastering a new skill. That can be a vigorous hike, like if connecting to nature is your thing. That can be a spiritual practice because mindfulness becomes hard if you – So etc., etc. But things that you wouldn't necessarily be able to do all the time because they do take some energy, people are now classifying that as type two fun. I think that's a playful term for it. [00:16:40] PF: That’s great. [00:16:42] MR: Agonizing are the things that we have to do. So, again, in the book, I make it clear that we can't engineer all of those out of our life. There are things that we need to do as humans that are hard. [00:16:52] PF: Like our taxes? [00:16:53] MR: Exactly, yeah. I mean, that's a common one, right? But a lot of times, when people look at like things that are really agonizing that happen week after week, there's generally ways to improve them. So looking at those critically and thinking what is it? If you get creative, things that kind of suck for you, you could potentially change them, either by changing the activity or outsourcing, if you're in a place that you could do that. The last one we've already kind of talked about, but it's the most nefarious, is the yielding, and that is things that don't bring us joy. But because they don't take much energy, we kind of do them mindlessly. Oftentimes, especially in this modern life we live, they're engineered to make us believe we’re enjoying our time, but they really don't. So social media is an obvious culprit. Again, I don't villainize watching TV. There are shows that I certainly like that are fun to watch because I'm watching them either with my kids or my partner. But what is a common routine for people is they’re so burnt out from work. They plop down on the couch and just turn on whatever is there. If I were to ask you the next week like, “Hey, I know you watched TV Wednesday from 7:00 to 9:00. What did you watch?” They’re like, “Ah, I don't know.” [00:18:06] PF: Then you're frustrated. When you're done watching television, you look back, and it's like, “I wasted this time. I could have done something.” Yet we haven't identified what we would have done. So we just keep doing. That's why we need our fun. We need to like figure out what we do for fun because we would have done something differently. [00:18:22] MR: That's exactly right, and that identifies another headwind. That is in those moments, it is hard for you to believe that you could go out and do something, right? So what I've seen, and this has to happen with multiple people that I've worked with, is that there's two things going on. One, for a lot of adults, for whatever reason, there's this notion that you can't do things on a school night. We've just been programmed to believe that we can't go out and have fun Monday through Thursday. That’s fundamentally not true, right? [00:18:52] PF: Right. [00:18:54] MR: Then the second headwind is, I'm just so tired. Like let's say dancing because, surprisingly, but in a fun way, like dancing seems to be one of those really fun activities that a clear majority like. I would say like 60 or 70 percent. We just don't do anymore, right? So, okay, try taking a dance class during that time, right? For the folks that really do want to reconnect with dancing. The first couple of weeks suck because you're still tired. You're still in that state like, “Oh, plopping down on the couch would be more comfortable.” Not necessarily more fun but it’s more comfortable. By the third week, it's such an invigorating activity that they realize, okay, now they're looking forward to it. And, two, they're a better person when they show up for work. Then three, oftentimes, once you get a taste for that, like, “Wait a second. I am a better version of myself. I'm also more productive,” then it turns into this upward spiral, and you start to figure out what are those boundaries. I was good at work. I'm going to stop now and go take time off the table for me. Now, it's not just a dance class. It’s a comedy club with a friend and it's – Again, all the things start to fall into place. It's just that initial nudge, like how can you break the inertia of this kind of habituated life that we lead. [00:20:13] PF: You bring up a really good point about our productivity at work. A lot of times, when we think of having fun, we don't think of it improving our productivity. If anything, we think, well, it's going to cut into my time, and I'm not going to be as productive. So how does it actually make us more productive? [00:20:30] MR: So the first is I always explain this with a simple math equation because I think it really highlights it, and it's easy for people to understand. When we're living the best version of our self – And this is clear, you can go to Google Scholar, and there's plenty of studies that back me up on this. When we're living with vitality and vigor, then we produce more, right? So think that if you're living a life where you're actually capitalizing on your leisure and feeling like you're fulfilled in all areas of your life, that you can produce two units of output per hour. So you're working a simple 40-hour work week, but you're – For each one of those, whatever you're doing, creating widgets, or making websites, or writing manuscripts, whatever it is, you're creating two units of that output. People that are working 60 hours a week, so they think they're working hard, but they're really just busy and aren't taking time to recharge their batteries, are working a lot longer. So that might feel good, but each one of those hours are only producing one unit of output. So the person in scenario A is producing 80 units of output and living a really fun life and just kind of happy with how everything is going. The person in scenario B is creating 60 units of output, thinks they're a hard worker, but isn't having fun at all, and is on a fast track to burnout. Again, that's not just an assertion. That's been backed up. So that's why I think, again, leisure and fun are going to – We're going to start to understand that making sure we protect that is as important as protecting sleep. Again, no one now is telling you not to sleep, right? Like even the most staunch supporters of healthy culture, right? [00:22:13] PF: So absolutely. [00:22:15] MR: The second is their amazing research coming out of social science, the person I really liked in this area, her name's Caitlin Woolley, is that when you make activities more fun at work, one, you just do more. Two, obviously, you enjoy going to work a lot more. So there's all sorts of creative ways to do that, and it can be as simple as if you really enjoy the people that you're with during that meeting that needs to take place, just taking it outside of the office, and doing it as a walking meeting to creating like gamified aspects of your work so that you enjoy it more. It's really going to be specific to how you engage in work, but there's all sorts of really neat ways to make your work more fun. So figuring out what that means to you, so you don't dread it that you're actually like, “Oh, my gosh. I can't wait to do this activity because I've figured out a way.” Another great method is exploring it as an anthropologist like, “Wait, I've done this work the same way for five years. It’s so habituated and boring. That's probably why it's not fun. Could I do it in a totally different way?” Whatever that means to you. A lot of times, just that curiosity of approaching your work in a new fashion can be enough to make it fun. [00:23:26] PF: That's excellent. Mike, this book is so engaging. It gives us so many entry points to rediscovering fun in our lives. We're going to tell our listeners where they can find it, where they can find some of the great quizzes, so they can identify their fun type and learn more about themselves and having fun. But before we let you go tell us, why is it so important for us to get back to having fun and not put this off anymore? [00:23:49] MR: One, for our own wellbeing, right? There's a clear path to psychological and physiological benefits, especially as we start to age. Not only that, but we know from Bronnie Ware and others that when we index joyful memories throughout our life, we tend to really enjoy our later years because we have so much to look back on, and we generally have better social nets too, right? Because we've made friends through this amazing thing. We also know through social contagion theory that when we’re fun, we make everyone around us have more fun and live more joyful lives. So we're not just doing it for ourselves, but we're doing it for the ones that we love. So even if we live this dutiful life, where I want to be selfless because that's not necessarily a poor trait, you could do it for the ones around you because when you're more joyful, you just spread that, right? So it's similar to kindness. Having fun is going to affect all those around you. Once you really master it as a method, you can start to contribute to the greater good as well. It’s not just about you, but it's really about the world at large and making the world a better place. [00:24:53] PF: I love that. That is a great place to wrap this up. Thank you so much for coming on the show, explaining it to us, and for writing such a wonderful, insightful, and necessary book. [00:25:05] MR: Thank you for those kind words, and thank you for having me. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:25:14] PF: That was Mike Rucker, talking about his new book, The Fun Habit: How the Pursuit of Joy and Wonder Can Change Your Life. If you'd like to learn more about Mike and his book or follow him on social media, visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast link. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Choosing Your Word for the New Year With Matt Derrenbacher  [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 397 of Live Happy Now. It's the very last episode of 2022, and that means it's a great time to talk about setting our intention for the New Year. I'm your host, Paula Felps. And this week, I'm sitting down with Matt Derrenbacher, a fifth year rabbinical student at the Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion in Cincinnati and a chaplain candidate for the US Air Force. Matt is here today to talk about how we can set an intention, not a resolution, for our New Year and how choosing one word to guide us through the year can serve as a touch point in the months to come. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:42] PF: Matt, welcome to Live Happy Now. [00:00:45] MD: Hey, thanks for having me. [00:00:46] PF: It is a pleasure. You know, I had an idea that I wanted to do something about choosing a word of the year because that's a practice I've had for several years now, and it's been very effective. So I turned to your wife, who is a frequent flyer on Live Happy Now, and she's our resident pet expert, Brittany Derrenbacher, and she said, unbeknownst to me, that this is something that you are very familiar with. I didn't know that choosing a word of the year, setting that intention, that that's actually a practice within the Jewish faith. [00:01:18] MD: Yeah, absolutely. Just a little bit of context, so there's also a Jewish New Year. There's a few Jewish New Years, but the big one is Rosh Hashanah, which is the start of the year. So Judaism is based on a lunar calendar, which means our dates kind of move around in the secular calendar because that one's based on the sun. So we just have the High Holy Days end of September, early October this year. So during that process, when we have the New Year, and then Yom Kippur, which is like the Day of Atonement, there's one word that is really central to the experience of the New Year, and that is the Hebrew word to teshuvah. It's generally translated as repentance. But that's a terrible translation, a terrible translation. [00:02:07] PF: Just for the record. [00:02:09] MD: Because it comes from the word shuv, which is to return. So the word that I've chosen for the past few years, Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year, and through the whole period of Yom Kippur, and the High Holy Day period, is that to shuva, to return. It's really nice and sort of freeing to choose a word, rather than like set resolutions or all of these grand things because it's simple, right? So return, what can I do to return to myself, to return to what I want to be, to set new goals, return to my inner child, to all of these pathways of possibility? Because it's a word, we can keep returning. Yeah. We can return back to it. [00:03:00] PF: What is the purpose of choosing a word that you want to guide you through the New Year? [00:03:06] MD: So the purpose of choosing a word, rather than setting, I don't know, some grand sort of resolution is that a word can sort of serve as a mantra in a way, right? So we can continue to go back to this word, and it can look backwards. So when we return to ourselves, we're evaluating what has happened, we're returning, and then we're looking ahead to what we hope for the next few hours, few days, weeks, months, years, whatever it is. But it's freeing. It doesn't put us into a little box. It's an opportunity, rather than a constriction. [00:03:49] PF: Then unlike a resolution, you can't break it. Like you can't really fail at it the way you can with a resolution, and the failure rate on resolutions are like higher than new businesses. It's just like, man, what is it? Like six weeks into it that something like 80% or some astronomical number, these resolutions have already failed. It seems like with resolutions, once we've missed the boat, people tend to be like, “Oh, okay. I'll just give up and try again next year,” whereas having a word that you keep coming back to is completely different. Is that correct? [00:04:22] MD: Yeah, absolutely. Just a little more background, the Jewish understanding of time is very cyclical. Our lunar calendar is cyclical. We begin with the year, and then we re-begin with the beginning of the next year. We read the entire Torah, our sacred text, all the way through every single year, and we return back to the beginning. So the beginning of the cycle of Torah and the cycle of the New Year is this opportunity to engage in this act of creation because we as human beings have influence in our world. So we are actively creating the world that we're in and the world we want. So by choosing a word, we're able to continue to actively participate in that cycle, rather than sort of, well, I missed this resolution. So I’ll get it next year. It gives us something to keep evaluating and reevaluating and jumping back in. That’s important too because we may set some goal or intention for ourselves, and we may realize partway through, this isn't actually what I wanted, or this isn't actually how I want to interact with my world. So let me just recalibrate a little bit and just take another path. [00:05:37] PF: How does that help us stay motivated or reach a goal in a way? I kind of see it as if you have goals that you want to reach, and I'm not going to set a resolution because that's crazy. I can still set a goal, and then I use this word kind of as that motivation too. That is a practice or the mindset that I'm going to use to achieve what I want to achieve that year. [00:06:04] MD: Yeah, absolutely. Because a word serves more as an invitation. Let’s break it down a little. So if we think of a resolution, like here's a resolution that people across the world set every year, right? Like this year, I need to lose weight, and I need to be healthy. Okay, great. Now, instead of approaching it that way by just having a word as an invitation, we can sort of reframe that, right? So we can ask ourselves, instead of commanding ourselves, “I need to do this. I need to do this,” and putting that stress, that anxiety, and creating this sort of overwhelming weight that we're sort of carrying, until we just can't carry it anymore, and we chuck it off, and we say, “Hey. All right, that's it. I'm not doing that resolution this year.” It's an invitation, so we can say like, “Oh, imagine if this year, instead of all of the time I sat and binge-watched Netflix, imagine if I just broke that up a little bit and did maybe like 30 minutes of exercise and then two hours of Netflix?” It’s an invitation, right? So you're still interacting with that goal that you want to reach, but you're not sort of putting it in this little box that makes it seem almost overwhelming and impossible. [00:07:27] PF: I like it. I like seeing it that way, and it can help us reset throughout the year when we get off track. The very first time I did this practice of choosing a word, I was in Cincinnati, and I went to a church with a friend. They handed out these little white stones and a Sharpie, and they said, “You're going to choose your word and write on that stone.” So then the idea was like you can keep that stone in front of you, and it becomes a literal touchstone to what you want to accomplish or what you want your mindset to be. [00:07:58] MD: Yeah, absolutely. I love that because it takes this word and this intention, and it makes it a process of being instead of doing. [00:08:08] PF: Right, right. One thing that really surprised me was I didn't leave with a word on my stone that day. It's amazing when you sit down to do this. Now, let's see the – Okay, the other people in the church had a little advantage because they knew it was coming. I was a first time flyer at this service, and so I had no idea. They knew. I think they had been putting some thought into it. For myself, I really had to take it and think about, I mean, for a long time. So let's talk about that. How do you get down? When you want to choose your word that's going to guide you for a new year, what's kind of the process that someone can go through to think about what they want for that year? [00:08:48] MD: Yeah. That's a phenomenal question. I think that one of the best things we can do is just be intentional and honest with ourselves. So really thinking about and evaluating who we were as a person in the past year and how we feel about that, the things that we wish we could have done differently. Celebrate the things that we did do, that we're proud of, and then hold on to all of that, and sort of use that as the lens in which we view the New Year. [00:09:19] PF: That's really effective. [00:09:20] MD: Yeah, yeah. [00:09:22] PF: Because for myself, I know I will brainstorm. I still remember that very first stone, I wrote mindful. I decided like I'm going to be more mindful this year. [00:09:31] MD: Nice. [00:09:31] PF: And I've done different things since then in like a year of gratitude. What I've tried to do is every time I select a word, then I decide to put a practice around it. So not just saying I'm going to be more mindful, but it's like, okay, what am I going to do to put that into action? Because I think that's important too that you have that mindset, but then you also need to know what your action plan is that goes behind it. [00:09:57] MD: Absolutely, this idea of being mindful and stopping and listening. Once we sort of get that feeling, the beginning of that direction, then we can start the doing of creating ritual, of creating different ways to interact with the intention that we've set in a meaningful way that's renewing to us and helps us achieve some of those goals that we set based on the lens of this word that we've chosen. [00:10:25] PF: That's excellent. What's great about this too is there's like no right or wrong answer. I mean, you shouldn't use a word like annihilation or anything like that. But you can really – It’s like what word works for you and where you're at. I think something that surprised me is how easily those words – I already had my word for 2023 like in October, and it just struck me. I mean, it's not something I was going out like brainstorming what am I going to do. But it just dawned on me at one point like this is what I need to look for in 2023. This is what it needs to be about. So it does start becoming a habit where you incorporate that into your life, and you start figuring out ways to use it. In terms of reminding us what our word is, like I said that first year, I had it written on a white stone. I did that for a couple years after that, and then I've found other ways that I can symbolize it. Like when I did gratitude, there's a lot of things that say gratitude out there. It’s not hard to find it. So you can incorporate other visuals to remind you. What are some of the things that you could suggest to people so that it is, especially when they first start doing it, the first month or so, where it's like, “Oh, I got to remember to be mindful. I want to remember to incorporate this into my thinking today.” What are some ways that they can remind themselves? [00:11:46] MD: Yeah, absolutely. So in this way, the Jewish calendar is sort of an advantage because we have like the Jewish New Year in September, October. I mean, it moves around, depending on what cycle of the moon we're in in the year. But then we have a couple of months, and then we have the secular New Year. So there's a couple-of-month period where we can sort of we set an intention, start living out that intention, and then reevaluate, right? Because – [00:12:14] PF: But you get like a trial run is what you’re saying. [00:12:16] MD: Yeah, exactly, exactly. [00:12:18] PF: Like I need to see if this word really works for me. [00:12:23] MD: Yeah. But, no, I think that's perfect. So maybe in choosing a word, we also think about it as like a trial run because I know commitment can be scary for a lot of people, especially when it involves like personal self-growth and change and introspection. Looking at ourselves is one of the hardest things to do. So thinking of it like a trial run, okay, so my word is return or my word is listen, and I'm going to try to be more mindful and intentional about listening for the next month. How do I check that? Well, as I set my intention, I go to my calendar one month from today, just put in a little alert. How have I been listening? Then set the alert. Let it go. Because if we forget, if we sort of let it go, the alert pops up. We take that moment to recalibrate and say, “Hmm, I haven't really been listening. Why?” Then we can start over again, and maybe we need to choose a different word. But the idea is intentional growth within ourselves. So latching on to a new word or sort of reevaluating or thinking about why the word didn't work for us. Or if we get into a really nice groove, like we've doing a really good job of just stopping and listening and meditating. This is really working for me, cool. Then we're reenergized for the rest of the year or to our next checkpoint. [00:13:48] PF: I like that. I really, really like that. I love using technology as a tool to facilitate that because there's other things we can do. Some people might make a vision board out of it. Some people might journal. There's several things that we can do to kind of supplement it along the way and help build that up as an experience. [00:14:10] MD: Absolutely. So my word for this year, even though I sort of latched on to the idea of teshuvah, of returning to myself, I realized that the main thing that I wanted to focus on this year was listening. By setting that intention and then choosing that as the theme for my service, which was in December, there's a couple of months to really think about that and just exploring all of the incredible change and transformation that can come from just listening. [00:14:39] PF: That's powerful because we don't listen in. I mean, we have so much coming at us that it's hard to listen. It's hard to get still and explore a quiet place where we can listen. So that's very cool. What a great word. So how does it change our lives? Like what have you seen in your own life when you're able to focus on a word and give intention to a word, give intention to a year, and let that guide you throughout? [00:15:04] MD: I think the best thing about being able to choose a word and to just live very mindfully and intentionally is discovering all of the really small things that you'd miss otherwise. So in like this year, my word is listen. I'm going to go back to it. But really sitting and being intentional about not only how I'm feeling but how I feel sitting in this chair right now, sort of the light white noise of the fan that's going on right now. Our voices back and forth, the conversation and sort of the linguistic music that we're creating together, like a lot of these things we kind of just take for granted. Just taking one second to think about, all of the things that we take for granted going on around us can open up the entire world for us to just the sheer beauty of everything. [00:16:04] PF: That's fantastic. I love that. I love that. What a great way to just kind of sit and become more introspective, as we start the New Year. Thank you for sitting down, having this discussion. This was very insightful. [00:16:18] MD: Thanks. Thanks for having me. This is great. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:16:25] PF: That was Matt Derrenbacher, talking about setting intentions for the New Year. Speaking of that, I'm bringing in Casey Johnson, our Live Happy E-Commerce Marketing Manager. Casey, thanks for coming to the show. [00:16:36] CJ: Thanks for having me. It's always good to be back. [00:16:39] PF: It's always fun to have you on, and I want to talk to you because we have this New Year coming up. I don't know if you've heard of it, but I wanted to find out. Are you a resolutions gal or not? [00:16:50] CJ: I am, although I like to call them intention. So for me, intentions are like a constellation of purpose and values. So like resolutions and goals tend to be more focused on future outcomes, and intentions are more about how we want to show up in our lives in the present moment. So by shifting this mindset, it helps me channel my energy into what matters most. [00:17:16] PF: I like that. I like that a lot. That's a great approach to it because I’ve never been a resolutions person. I have been doing this, picking a word for the last at least five years. Maybe a little bit longer than that. That's what Matt and I talked about this week was choosing that word of the year. It's something you and I had kind of talked about a little bit, and I wondered what your thoughts were on that, if you were doing that or if you're like, “Paula, you're crazy,” or what are you thinking about that? [00:17:44] CJ: Well, to be honest, I haven't really done this before, but I am interested to try it out in the New Year. For me, by like choosing a word, it's kind of like a gentle reminder or like a mini affirmation. [00:17:55] PF: This will be great. We should check in at the end of the year, as we're looking toward 2024, and see how we did with it. [00:18:01] CJ: Yeah, let's do it. [00:18:02] PF: So what else? Like we have New Year starting before we wrap it up. What's going on in the Live Happy Store for the New Year? [00:18:09] CJ: Yeah. Right now, the Live Happy Store, we have the cutest journals, in my opinion. My favorite at the moment is the Stay Grateful Journal. Fun fact, research shows that by writing down your intentions or goals, it makes you 42% more likely to achieve them. [00:18:25] PF: That's very specific, Casey. [00:18:26] CJ: Very specific, 42%. [00:18:30] PF: I like that. That's very cool. We just send them to store.livehappy.com? [00:18:34] CJ: Yeah. Head over to store.livehappy.com to shop our happy journals and stationery. [00:18:39] PF: Awesome. That’s fantastic, Casey. Thank you for sitting down with me, and that is wall we have time for this week. So if you’d like to learn more about Matt or follow him on social media, visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast link. Then don’t forget, while you’re there, to go to store.livehappy.com and check out the journals Casey was just talking about. Then we will meet you back here again next year for an all-new episode. So until then, this is Paula Felps and Casey Johnson, remind you to make everyday a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Setting Boundaries for the Holidays With Melissa Urban  [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 391 of Live Happy Now. It's beginning to look a lot like the holidays. For many of us, that can look more like walking through a minefield than a winter wonderland. I'm your host, Paula, Felps. This week, I'm so excited to be joined by Melissa Urban, whose best-selling The Book of Boundaries: Set the Limits That Will Set You Free is changing the way people learn to say no. She's here today to talk about how we can set boundaries this holiday season with our friends, families, and coworkers to make it less stressful and more manageable. Believe me, once you've tried it, you'll realize these are habits you want to carry with you into the New Year. Let's listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:43] PF: Melissa, welcome to Live Happy Now. [00:00:46] MU: Thank you so much for having me. It's really great to talk to you, Paula. [00:00:49] PF: What perfect timing to be able to talk to you because we have the holidays coming up. You have The Book of Boundaries. Oh, my God. Those two things go together. [00:01:00] MU: Don’t they, though? [00:01:01] PF: Or don't go together too often. Once I got this book, I really wanted to talk to you and especially wanted to do it with a holiday theme. Before we dig into all that, tell us how you became the boundary lady. Is that who you are? [00:01:14] MU: Yeah. It is now. At least that's how a lot of my followers spouses know me on Instagram. “Oh, you got that information from the boundary lady, didn’t you?” I've been helping people set and hold boundaries since the earliest days of the Whole30. So I'm the Whole30 co-founder, and I founded the program in 2009. If you're familiar with the Whole30, it's a 30-day elimination program. So you're eliminating foods and beverages for 30 days kind of as a self-experiment before you reintroduce them and compare your experience. For those 30 days, you're saying no a lot to break room doughnuts and your mother's pasta and the glass of wine at happy hour. I quickly discovered that people were uncomfortable saying no, especially in social settings, especially when faced with peer pressure or pushback. So I started helping people say no, in the context of their Whole30, around food and alcohol and talking about their diets and the food on their plate and their bodies. That naturally led to them asking me, “Okay. Well, what do I say to my mother-in-law who's always dropping by without calling, or the coworker who's always gossiping, or my nosy neighbor who's always asking if he can borrow power tools?” My boundary conversations just very naturally spilled over into that arena, and they really kicked into high gear when the pandemic hit. Because I think we all realize during the pandemic that we lacked healthy boundaries around work and home and kids in school. It was all starting to run together. Especially women and especially moms were really burned out and exhausted. So I've been doing this work really in earnest since then. [00:03:01] PF: This book is amazing. It is so comprehensive, and it covers everything imaginable. I was just so knocked out as I was going through it. In that book, you offer such a great definition of boundaries. I just loved it. It's like I was underlining it. H many times can I underline? Because we talk about boundaries, but we don't necessarily understand what they are. So can you tell us what you mean when you're talking about boundaries? [00:03:26] MU: Yes. I often think there's a misconception. Boundaries are about controlling other people or telling other people what to do. Or putting these big walls up between you and other people or holding people at a distance. None of that is true. So I define boundaries as limits that you set around how you allow other people to engage with you. So a boundary doesn't tell someone else what to do. It tells others what you are willing to do, the actions that you are going to take to keep yourself safe and healthy. Ultimately, boundaries improve your relationships. They're an invitation to the people in your life to say, “Hey, I have this limit. And you may not have been aware that I've had it but I'm going to communicate this limit to you clearly and kindly as an invitation. Because if you can show up in my life in a way that also respects this limit, our relationship can be so much more open and more trusting and more respectful and feel good to both of us.” [00:04:33] PF: So it improves relationships, but it also really improves our mental health. [00:04:38] MU: Yes. [00:04:38] PF: Can you talk about what does it do for us to be able to set and maintain those boundaries? [00:04:44] MU: So I want you to think about a situation in your life that brings on this idea of dread or anxiety. Maybe it’s – [00:04:51] PF: How many would you like? [00:04:53] MU: I know. Let's just start with one. Maybe it's a particular person, where every time you see their name come up on your phone or they walk by or you know they're going to be at an event, you just cringe like, “Oh, I do not want to be with this person. I don't want to engage.” Maybe it's around a particular conversation topic, where you know that if the subject of your weight or your body or politics or religion or when you're going to have a baby or your chronic illness come up, you just feel this sense of real anxiety or dread. Those are all signs that a boundary is needed. When you think about how a boundary can protect our mental health, boundaries are what help us eliminate or at least dramatically reduce that sense of dread and anxiety, resentment, mistrust, all of the things that cause stress and cause us to show up not as our full selves in relationships. They really help us reclaim our time, our energy, our capacity, our physical space, our sense of safety, and our mental health. [00:05:59] PF: Yeah. Your book really emphasizes how important it is to be able to create healthy boundaries. If they're so good for us, why are they so hard? Why? They should be easy, right? [00:06:10] MU: Well, first of all, and I'll speak for myself, but as women and then especially as moms, we've been conditioned our whole lives not to have needs. As a mom, I am praised the most when I am selfless, having no needs, having no wants, no desires of my own, and putting everyone else's comfort and sense of security and happiness above my own. Then when we do have needs and we express them, no matter how politely or kindly we do, we're told we're selfish or cold or that we have too many rules. Often we're told those things by the people who benefit the most from us not having any limits. I think there's a lot for us to unlearn before we think about setting boundaries. Then on top of that, I’ll acknowledge, it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable to advocate for your feelings, to point out a way in which someone you truly care about was overstepping. Even if their intentions were good, it's uncomfortable to advocate for yourself, and that does make the idea of boundaries feel challenging. [00:07:20] PF: So do you recommend that somebody starts with like small boundaries and then kind of works up to the bigger stuff? Or do we dive right in and tackle the big issues? What's the best way to approach this? [00:07:32] MU: I think there are a ton of entry points here. So for some, I'd say starting with boundaries around food and drink, whether you're doing a Whole30, which is essentially a boundary like boot camp, or whether you're just going into the next event, practicing saying, “No, thanks. I'm not drinking right now. No, thanks. I'm not eating gluten right now. No, I'm good. No, thank you.” Practicing that, I think, can be incredibly empowering because, A, you always have control over what you choose to eat or drink. Like I doubt anyone at that party is going to like sit on you and pour alcohol into your throat. Saying no to foods and drinks that you know don't serve you also brings you energy and better sleep and a happier mood and improved digestion. So that has a spillover effect into other areas of your life and can really help build confidence. In other times, when people read the book, they go, “You know what? My relationship with my coworker or mom or best friend has been bothering me for so long. I'm just going to go in and I'm going to like go in hard. I'm going to set the one limit that is going to bring me the most relief in my life. It's going to help me reclaim the most time and energy and mental health, and I feel prepared, and I have the script, and like I'm going to go in strong.” It kind of just depends on like what you're up for and how big you want to go. But I don't think there's any one way to start a boundary practice. I think the important thing is just to start practicing. [00:08:59] PF: Yeah. You just mentioned the script, and that's something that I love about this book because not only do you say this is why you should do it, and this is how you do it. You actually give a script to talk us through that. How did you come up with those because you have something for everything? [00:09:16] MU: I do. I have more than 130 scripts in the book, and each script has three different levels of boundary conversation. Your green level, which is sort of the kindest, gentlest. The yellow, which is, okay, you're getting some pushback, and you really need to reinforce the boundary. Then the red, which is like, “We are at code red here. The relationship is about to be permanently damaged if I am not able to hold this limit.” I started writing scripts many years ago because my Whole30 community would come to me and they'd say, “Okay, I need to set a boundary around going to my office happy hour but not drinking.” I'm like, “Okay, how can I help?” They were like, “What do I say? I know I need to set the boundary. I know how it would benefit me, but I don't know how to say it.” So I started helping people with actual scripts that sound very natural, very conversational. They don't sound like therapy speak. But because this is so uncomfortable, I find arming people with a script that they can practice at home. Tell your shower wall, “No, thanks. I'm not drinking right now,” right? Repeat it to your car, to your dog so that your body absorbs it somatically, and you get really comfortable with the phrase. I think it makes people feel more confident heading into the boundary conversations and makes them feel less like they have to wing it. It tends to help them not water down their boundaries so much that it's ineffective. Or come out of the gate so strong, too strong that they do end up damaging the relationship in an attempt to set the limit. [00:10:44] PF: What’s so great about it is the fact that you do give pushback, like if this is happening, instead of – Too oftentimes, if you're doing like a role playing type of thing, the other party is like too easy. They make it too easy on you. So that's something that's so great about that. People can really practice really setting that boundary. [00:11:02] MU: Yes. I want you to go into the conversations, assuming that the other person just didn't realize that you had a limit. Once you express it, they will be happy to meet it. Because most of the time, that's what happens. So you don't have to go in geared up for battle. I want you to assume the best. Also, of course, I'm going to prepare you if you do encounter pushback or peer pressure, or the people in your life continue to forget that you set this limit. I want you to have the words to be able to enforce it at the same time. [00:11:34] PF: That is so terrific and one area. This is why I wanted to talk to you. You've created scripts about the holidays. Oh, my gosh. There are so many minefields in the holiday season that I wanted to talk about. Can we start with families? This is so tough because the holidays are already challenging. Then we go home, and we start slipping back into these old family patterns and routines. So like, first of all, why do we do that? Why don't we remain the adults that we are when we go back home? [00:12:04] MU: I've never felt more like my 16-year-old self than when I sit down at my mom's dining room table. I think it's just childhood patterns and relationship dynamics run really deep. We absorb a lot of who we become as a person from our parents. So like my family, we didn't model healthy conflict. We kind of practiced avoidance. I'm going to want to keep the peace at all cost. I'm not going to want to bring up things that are uncomfortable or say something that I know someone's going to argue with. I'm going to want to be the peacekeeper. If your parents grew up fighting and always wanting you to pick sides, you may withdraw in family situations. There are so many reasons why setting boundaries with family and family dynamics can be really challenging. But at the same time, it's never too late to be the change agent in your family and start to create new relationships. The holidays can certainly feel like a perfect storm of boundary oversteps. I do want people to be prepared to go into all of these challenges thinking about, okay, what are the limits that I need to set specifically, and how can I communicate those effectively? [00:13:13] PF: Do you start setting those before the holidays? Do you wait till you're right there? How and when do you start unpacking all this? [00:13:21] MU: Anytime you can have a boundary conversation well ahead of the situation, when you are not enmeshed in it, when in the moment. Of course, I want you to set boundaries in the moment if needed but if you can set the expectation ahead of time. “Hey, mom and dad. Really looking forward to seeing you for Christmas this year. Just so you know, we're going to spend Christmas morning at home, just the three of us. We really want a quiet morning, and we'll come by at around noon before dinner.” Whatever boundary you need to set. “Hey, really looking forward to seeing you over the holidays. I know we disagree on politics, and it would make our visit far more pleasant if we could all agree just not to bring it up. Is that something we can all live with because it makes none of us happy when we have those discussions over the table?” Whatever the conversation seems like, if you can anticipate a boundary challenge and set expectation ahead of time and get buy in, that makes holding the boundary in the moment even easier. [00:14:17] PF: So what happens if they buy in in advance? But then in the actual situation, things start denigrating. Here come the political comments. What do you do then? Because you've already said it, and now they're breaking the rules. [00:14:30] MU: This is why I give you yellow scripts. You've already set the expectation. They say, “Yeah, we understand. It's not fun for anybody when politics come up.” Then you're at the table, and Uncle Joe brings up immigration. This is where you say, “Oh, oh. Wait, wait. We agreed. No politics at the table, Uncle Joe. But, hey, I know you just went on vacation. How was it? I don't think I even saw any photos. How did it go?” So you address the boundary overstep. You say, “I am not participating in this conversation,” and you quickly change the subject to allow everyone to move on gracefully. If they continue to talk over you and talk politics at the table, your red level boundary is, “I already said I won't participate in these conversations. Please excuse me.” You leave the table. You go for a walk. You step outside to make a phone call. You go in the other room with your kids, whatever that looks like. The red boundary is you holding the boundary by saying, “I am removing myself from this situation because it does not feel healthy to me.” [00:15:26] PF: You are teaching everyone at the table such a fantastic lesson because whether they want boundaries in that moment or not, there are other things in their lives that they're going, “Oh, I wonder if I can use this?” [00:15:38] MU: Yes, yeah. Often all it takes is for one person. It's a hard job to be the change agent in a family. But if you can do it, there's a really good chance that other people in the family have felt like you too, and they just haven't wanted to say anything. I have absolutely watched in my community the ripple effects of you setting your boundary trickle out very quickly to everyone else, who will then back you up in this limit. [00:16:03] PF: How can it change families if all of a sudden, gosh, we're not getting together, and we're not ripping open old wounds, and we're not fighting about our differences, but we're looking for ways to actually get along and be together and find commonality? How does that change your whole dynamic that time and going forward? [00:16:20] MU: Imagine what your upcoming holiday would feel like if you knew that when you showed up at your family's house, nobody was going to bring up politics. Nobody was going to comment on the food on your plate or talk about your weight loss or their weight loss or their diets or your bodies. Nobody was going to try to make you feel guilty when after the meal, you said, “Okay, it's time for us to go to dad's house now. It was so nice to visit with you. Thank you so much.” The sense of like immediate freedom and relief that you would feel, knowing you could go into these holidays with not only these preset expectations but the words to hold the boundaries, should you find in the moment that people overstep, I think would just absolutely feel tremendous. It would give you a sense of self confidence. It would remind you that you are in control and take responsibility for your own feelings. It gives you the power to actually hold the boundary because you're not relying on anyone else to kind of hold that for you or to join you. If they decide that they can't or won't hold this healthy limit, you know the action you're going to take to keep yourself safe. [00:17:29] PF: You also talk about managing that guilt of not spending enough time with the other side of the family. Once you're married, once you have children, it gets even more complicated. I've seen so many of my friends go through this, where they are just run ragged by the end of Christmas Day because they feel like they have to give both sides. Sometimes, it's like four sides because you have divorces with the parents and then the grandparents. Nobody's happy the end of the day because everyone's just exhausted. So how do you manage that kind of guilt and everything that's going on with separate sides of the family? [00:18:05] MU: This is what psychologists call unearned guilt. This is not guilt because you have done something wrong, and it is biologically serving you and your community by you feeling bad and remembering that you did something wrong, so you don't do it again. This is unearned guilt that we are choosing to take on. So in the simplest way, you don't have to feel guilty. You can just say, “No, thank you.” What I am doing now is creating traditions for my family. This is a time-honored tradition that my parents did when they had me and their parents did when they had them. We are creating a new family unit now, and I want to create traditions with my children the way that my parents did with me. There's a chance that your mom didn't feel comfortable setting boundaries with your grandmother. That might be a big part of the reason why they get so upset and defensive and hurt when you set boundaries with them from this sense of like jealousy that they wish they could have done this with you when you were kids. You're doing it now. That can be very challenging for older generations. But I think it's perfectly acceptable to think about and decide as a family together, what do we want our holidays to look like? Then to notify other family members what you are and are not willing to do. [00:19:24] PF: That's terrific because I know in our family, my partner's uncle, it was tradition. Christmas Eve was at his house. What was very funny is everybody complained. Nobody wanted to go there. For years, everybody has to go to Uncle Bobby's, and we're just like, “They're complaining the whole time.” So about three years ago, probably about five years ago now, her brother's like, “We're not going to do it,” and everyone's like, “Wait a minute. We don't have to do this?” “Let’s just say that's no longer a family tradition.” It’s amazing because it's like you get time back, and you get this freedom that just didn't seem to exist prior to that. [00:20:00] MU: That's such a good example of one person. Like everybody thinking it and just one person being willing to say it. Yes. I like to remind people, you can do it any way you want. So we have this nontraditional approach to Christmas with my parents, where it's like, “Hey, whether we celebrate it on Christmas Day or January 29th, it kind of doesn't matter. We're going to have Christmas in a way and a time that works for all of us.” They'll keep their tree up late, and we'll hold presents for my son. But we get to celebrate in a way that doesn't stress everybody out. So you can have those nontraditional celebrations. You can choose to not go anywhere at all, and you don't need an excuse to stay home. It doesn't have to be, well, we're going to take a vacation this year. It can be we just don't want to travel, and we want a quiet Christmas at home, and we're not accepting visitors, and we're not going to go anywhere. We'll happily FaceTime with you. If we celebrate Christmas in July, then that's fantastic too. But I encourage people to think outside the box because you can create traditions any way you choose as a family. [00:21:04] PF: We're just not used to thinking we can do that. We're just not used to thinking that we can go, especially in the holidays. That we can just say, “Yeah, we're not participating in that tradition. We want to create our own.” But how important is it for our children to see us taking that initiative and for them to understand like, “Yes, I can create my own boundaries going forward.”? [00:21:25] MU: Yes. It's so important for your kid. People often say, “How do I impart this idea of healthy boundaries with my kids?” It's setting and holding healthy boundaries on behalf of you and the family and modeling that for your kids. You're also doing this on their behalf. My son does not enjoy being in a car most of Christmas day, as we travel hours and hours between all of the families. But he loves that he gets four Christmases, one with us, one with grandma, one with Grandpa, one with his dad. He loves that we get to spread it out over the course of a month. So it really does make everybody's time easier, and you can acknowledge your family members’ disappointment, “I'm sorry that we won't be spending the day with you,” while still holding the boundary. We'll make sure we have plenty of time to visit two weekends from now when we come, and we'll do all of the Christmas things. We'll sing carols, we'll sit around the tree, we'll play games, and it will be just as festive. [00:22:21] PF: That is such a wonderful way to approach it. The other thing that really interferes – Not interferes. That can take some time is our work place during this time of year. You've got holiday parties, and those are often obligatory. How do we set boundaries around that? Because we're walking a fine line since it is work, and some things might be required. [00:22:43] MU: It is challenging, of course, to set boundaries in the workplace because of the power dynamics in play. I think a lot of times, companies sometimes – It’s not that they leave it until the last minute, but you've got projects. You've got deadlines. You've got goals kind of that you want to wrap up by year end. Again, setting expectations ahead of time is key. If you are going to be taking time off during the holidays, it's requesting that plenty early, reminding people ahead of time like, “Hey. Just so you remember, I’ll be out. I would send this email out like December 1st. I'm going to be out from this point to this point around the holidays. I will not be checking email or Slack. I will not be participating in meetings.” Make it very clear that you are out of office. If we need to have meetings ahead of time to set deliverables, let me know. I'm going to have XYZ cover my deliverables during this time period. So everyone knows who to go to. Those little reminders along the way can really help to set the expectation so that when somebody does send an email or text to you to ask you a question, you can say, “I am out of office and not responding to text. I'll be back in the office on this date.” So I think that's really important to communicate very clearly. But then you also have to set the boundary with yourself that if you say you're out of office, you're not checking email. You're not responding to just like that one Slack message really quick because now you're changing the expectation, and people will take as much as you are willing to give. [00:24:04] PF: Yeah. You have some great illustrations in your book about that. About the poor woman who was on vacation. [00:24:10] MU: That was my sister. That was my sister. It was – [00:24:13] PF: Oh, my God. I was horrified. [00:24:15] MU: Whose boss is like – [00:24:15] PF: [inaudible 00:24:15] story real quick because that's just horrifying. [00:24:18] MU: She worked in a very toxic workplace environment, where her boss tracked her down on her first vacation in over a year and like called her off of her paddleboard in the middle of the ocean for something that was absolutely not an emergency. Though my sister tried to set boundaries a number of times in that organization, they very clearly demonstrated that this was not a place where boundaries would be respected. So she did all she could to create a healthier workplace environment and could not and ended up finding a new job. But at least she tried. That's what I say to people in the workplace. Your only options are not to let your employer or coworkers continue to run you over or quit and get a new job. There are a number of options in the middle where you can try at least to set and hold boundaries around your work time, your personal time, your ethics or values or your personal space. If they don't hold and you're not able to maintain those boundaries because the workplace is simply not amenable to them, at least you know you've done everything you could to try to make your workplace culture healthy. [00:25:22] PF: Yeah. That is so terrific. Can you talk about what happens to us when we start practicing setting boundaries? Because it seems like once you've kind of mastered it, you're probably going to get pretty good at it in a lot of different areas that you didn't even think about going into it. [00:25:37] MU: I think you do. Boundaries kind of bring about this sense of inertia, where an object in motion stays in motion. What happens is it becomes like this self-affirming prophecy. So you steal yourself and you say, “I deserve to set this limit. My needs are worthy. My comfort is worthy. My feelings matter, just as much as anybody else's, and I am going to set this limit because I know it is for the best for my health and safety, and I know it's going to improve the relationship.” You set the limit, and the other person respects it, and your relationship improves. Now, you're like, “Okay. Now, I have the self-confidence to seek out other areas,” and you feel more comfortable setting them. You feel more comfortable holding them. Other people in your life experience this real sense of safety around you because they know that you mean what you say and that you will take responsibility for your own feelings and your own needs. That is a very comforting and reassuring place to be, and you're allowing other people in your life to say no to you. So now, you're both showing up where you want to, how you want to in a way that feels good to both of you. It has this tremendous cascade effect, this ripple effect that will move through all of your relationships at work, with family, with friends, with total strangers on the street. It really is such a powerful, transformative experience that anyone can start literally right now. [00:27:02] PF: That's so excellent. This book is absolutely incredible. It is so informative, educational, inspiring, and funny. There's just so much that we can take away from it. This is terrific. We are going to – In the wrap up, I'm going to tell people how they can follow you on social media, where they can find you, where they can buy your book. But as they enter the holiday season, what's the thing that you most want them to keep in mind? [00:27:27] MU: I want you to keep in mind that your comfort, your joy, the sense of magic and wonder that the holidays can bring are all at your disposal this year with a healthy boundary practice. [00:27:41] PF: I love it. Melissa, thank you so much for coming on the show, for writing this book, and for sharing this with us. [00:27:47] MU: Thanks so much Paula. It was a joy to talk to you as well. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:27:54] PF: That was Melissa Urban, author of The Book of Boundaries: Set the Limits That Will Set You Free. If you'd like to learn more about Melissa and her work, follow her on social media, or buy her book, visit our website at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]