Search Results for: giving

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Create a Healthy Relationship with Social Media With Giselle Ugarte [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 470 of Live Happy Now. As we wrap up Mental Health Awareness Month, it's a great time to talk about something that many experts believe is contributing to the problem. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and this week I'm joined by coach, speaker, and influencer, Giselle Ugarte, who helps people learn how to build their confidence, reframe their relationship with social media, and show up more authentically at work and in their personal lives. Giselle has seen firsthand how learning to use social media more mindfully can help deepen relationships and improve self-confidence, and she's here to tell us how we can make the most of those social media moments. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:46] PF: Giselle, welcome to Live Happy Now. [0:00:49] GU: Hello. I'm so happy to be here. [0:00:51] PF: Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited to talk to you. We want to talk about mental health and social media, and that is a huge topic. We could talk all month about it. [0:00:59] GU: No kidding. That’s my department. [0:01:00] PF: Oh, my gosh. [0:01:01] GU: I'm glad to be here to talk about it. [0:01:03] PF: Yeah. So, to start the conversation, I really wanted to talk about how oftentimes, when we have this discussion about social media and mental health, we're talking about younger users. It's not just kids that it's affecting, it's affecting older adults as well, right? [0:01:18] GU: It's affecting all of us, honestly, because even if it isn't social media, you know, social media is a reflection of the way that we use technology, and even the way that we have notifications running so much of our lives. Where we worry so much about today's kids, the reality is, is that the kids are also reflecting the habits and also, the insecurities of adults. We're hearing a lot of commentary right now about how this is the most anxious generation, I would also then challenge to take a look at some of our older generations as well in the ways in which we might be addicted to work, or perhaps, validation, or people pleasing. I really just think that social media is a mirror, or perhaps, amplification of some of what actually and already has been happening for decades long before social media existed. The difference is that now we can carry it in our pockets and take it home with us even when we are all alone. There are some benefits of that too, because there's also the side of, well, but wait a minute, with social media, we never actually have to be alone. It's actually removing a lot of stigmas and we talk about Mental Health Awareness Month. I know that for me personally, someone who has dealt with anxiety and spells of deep depression and even PTSD, I've changed my relationship with alcohol over time. For me, social media has actually been where I've gone to for conversation, for confidence as I learned to embrace my body and what healthy looks like to me. Social media has been where I've been able to create conversations with people who I perhaps never would have met in real life. Or maybe it was chit chat at a party, but we started following each other and realized that we were both on this same path of wanting to better ourselves. Social media was where we were able to find that community. I'm really excited to go into this conversation and explore different angles. Most importantly, to discover where we are in control and how we can better have a better relationship with social media every day, no matter how old you are. [0:03:18] PF: Right. I think some of the people that have the healthiest relationship with it are the elderly. I have an aunt who's 87, and she uses Facebook. Now, granted, she's not what I would call tech savvy. But if it weren't for Facebook, then we would not be in touch. She's not someone that's going to pick up a phone. We're not going to be in touch. And we have a very large extended family. Because of that, she doesn't have children of her own, but she is in touch with all her nieces and nephews and reach out. She's going through a lot of health challenges right now. She is getting the support that she simply could not have if it weren't for social media. [0:03:55] GU: I like to say that if you're not taking your online relationships offline, then you're seriously missing out. Absolutely, it is one of those things where we're able to keep in touch with people who, maybe we wouldn't otherwise. I would also say, and that brings up a really awesome point too, is that sometimes I have friends who will say, “Well, if I didn't have social media, then my family would never see my kids, or they'd never keep in touch with us.” To which I go, “Wait, hold on a second. Have we now gotten to a point to where social media is the only way that you're keeping in touch with your family, versus now we have things like group text and FaceTime where we actually need to take that relationship to another level?” [0:04:39] PF: So, are you indicating this might be a problem? [0:04:42] GU: Well, no. I'm not. But we all have to really take a look at our online habits and why do we do the things that we do. You mentioned you have this friend who had health challenges. How awesome how, for example, you have people who might be having health challenges, or God forbid, they go through something really tragic, they can use social media as a way to update a lot of people that otherwise, energetically, they might not be able to, or physically able to do so. Or you're able to maybe donate to someone who is seriously in need and going through something really, really difficult and you're able to have that support, maybe even from people who you haven't talked to in a really long time. With every ounce of negative, there's positive with positive, there are more ways to do good and in person, but I simply want people to be more intentional about all of their habits online and especially off. [0:05:33] PF: I love the positive things that can come out of it. I love seeing the fundraisers that take place and just the sense of community that you can create when you are intentional about it. We know that it's also doing a lot of things to knock people's self-confidence. That's something that you've addressed very well. I wondered if you could talk a little bit about what kind of impact it can have on your self-confidence. [0:05:57] GU: Absolutely. Well, I want to go back even 10 or 20 years ago. We can go back even further than that. I know that right now, we're getting a lot of that conversation around the millennials and then Gen Xers who are saying that social media is horrible for confidence. To that, I say, hold on a second. Let's go back to a time when our only media was TV and magazines. There was one standard of beauty. She was one color and one size. She was usually a size zero, or double zero and her legs were a million miles long. Maybe you would see her in that magazine and perhaps, that's what she looked like naturally, or maybe they did start to doctor some of those images. You wouldn't even necessarily know, because the FTC was not what it is today. Now you log into social media, you can see beauty in every single shape and color and size and age and level of success in a way that we never have been before. That's where I want to challenge anyone who says, “Hold on. Social media is killing my confidence,” to go, what are you looking at? Because now, you have choices. Before, we didn't have choices. We only had a certain amount of channels and whatever magazines that you were subscribed to. You get to decide who you follow. Now our feeds are a direct reflection of us. If what you're seeing is making you feel bad about yourself for any way, then you really need to either get your head right, or get your feed right. Typically, I then hear the argument, “Oh, but comparison is the thief of joy.” Comparison is only the thief of joy when you're coming at it from a place of lack, when you yourself are unhappy. That's where I really want to challenge you. Again, get your head right, get your feed right. Start your day rooted and gratitude with what you are thankful for, with what you are proud of, with ways that you do see yourself as beautiful. Because otherwise, yeah, everything you see, you're going to project your insecurities on that. I want you to follow people who look exactly like you. I want you to follow people who look nothing like you. I want you to follow people who give you aspirational and inspirational goals and motivate you without making you feel less than. If everything is making you feel less than, then maybe it is time to perhaps pause, or close the apps, or unfollow, or mute, or maybe even block for a moment because that does happen. But the conversation is so much bigger than just a social media feed. It's also, when you're dropping the kids off at school and you're seeing all of the other parents around you. It's also, when you're opening up your phone and you don't like what you see, or you're looking in the mirror and you don't like what you see. To which I say, it's time to own it or change it. Own it. Or if you don't like what you see, then change it. Even if you decide to change it, you still have to own it in some way, shape, or form. What I instead see people have happened is they end up turning on filters, for example, or multiple filters, for example, and they say, “Oh. Well, I'm just putting makeup on with this filter. Oh, I'm just giving myself some a tan.” Well, hold on a second. Why does that filter make your face look like a totally different shape? Why is it putting somebody else's eyes on top of your eyes? Why have you just aged 20 years less? Why do your pores not exist? All of a sudden, what you're doing is on your phone, you're creating this image that isn't actually real. It's no wonder that when you look in the mirror, you hate what you see. [0:09:30] PF: Yeah. Can we talk about this a little bit more? Because I recently went through this. I saw a friend. I was just like, “Oh, my God. She looks amazing.” I was talking – we used to live in Dallas, this woman lives in Dallas. I was talking to some other friends in Dallas, I'm like, “She looks so great. What is she doing?” They're like, “Filters, Paula. It's a filter.” I was like, “Oh, man.” What does that do to our psychology and our psyche when we are presenting ourselves one way, but that's not who we really are? How does that affect us? [0:10:03] GU: Absolutely. What it’s doing is it’s telling your brain that you don't think that you're good enough. For me personally, I believe things like makeup and fashion are actually a form of self-expression. Sometimes they can be disguises and armor, and that's fine, but the difference between a filter and say, filler, the injectable, is the filler goes with you, the filter does not. [0:10:27] PF: Right. [0:10:28] GU: My conversation and my expertise is purely around the use of technology and social media. The conversation around plastic surgery and makeup, that's something different entirely. Again, the difference is the filler will go with you. The filter does not. When you then look in the mirror at night, or when you look in somebody else's camera, or when your child takes a photo of you and you don't like what you see, a lot of that is because what you are lying to yourself doing. What I find to be so interesting is that a lot of my clients, I have a rule, no filters. No filters on Zoom. No filters on social media. To remove that filter. What's so interesting is how every single person, every single time, well, first of all, there's the resistance, which if it's not that deep, Giselle, if it's not that serious, Giselle, then why is it so hard for you to do? Why is it so hard? Once they actually remove it, what's so wild is the way that they begin to realize other ways that they've been creating filters in their life. Because you might even be thinking, “Well, Giselle, I don't even use filter,” which congratulations, you are miles and light years ahead in the confidence game. Where might you be hiding, or where might you perhaps be creating that highlight reel? Because I believe that there is this highlight reel of perfection that we are seeing, but oftentimes, the ones who are only seeing the highlight reel, you're also the one who's creating it, too. I believe that your highlight reel is actually comprised of the highs and the lows of the in-between moments. You can have your best day and your worst day on the same day. It's so important that we recognize that what we're seeing is just a fraction of someone's life. I hate when people say, social media is fake. Are there people online who are fake? Yes. Are there people who are in real life fake? Also, yes. The question is, is it actually fake, or is it just that you are creating a judgment on a single second of time? In that single second of time, it's possible that that family was happy and smiling and in the next second, it's possible that they were fighting. We've all had those days and those vacations where you were at screaming each other the whole time. Does that mean that you don't love each other? No. If somebody posts a picture of their happy family and then announces the next week that they're getting a divorce, does that mean that they were being fake? Or was she just doing her best on that particular day? You can have your best day and your worst day on the same day. That's part of the mental health acceptance that I want people to understand is that no, social media isn't fake. I actually think we were talking about, what does your mind tell yourself? When we say things like that, we're actually canceling ourselves out for achieving that thing ourselves. We're believing that, “Oh, that type of happiness can't be achieved. Oh, that type of family can't be achieved. Oh, that type of success can't be achieved,” because of the ways that we're knocking it from someone else, or we're trying to chip it away somehow. I wouldn't even realize the ways in which that too is also her bringing out confidence by saying, “Oh, you don't deserve that. Oh, you'll never have that.” Versus, “You know what? Good for her. You know what? Good for him.” [MESSAGE] [0:13:43] PF: We'll be right back with Giselle Ugarte. But right now, let's take a quick break to talk about clothing from Franne Golde. If you're hitting the road this summer, you'll want to check out this amazing line of wrinkle-free staples that you can dress up or down depending on the occasion. They're the perfect traveling companion, because they're flattering, comfortable, and were created by a Grammy-winning musician who knows the importance of looking good on the road. See for yourself at frannegolde.com/podcast and you can get 20% off your first order of $75 or more when you use the code HAPPY. That's F-R-A-N-N-E-G-O-L-D-E.com/podcast for 20% off your order of $75 or more with the code HAPPY. Now, let's get back to my talk with Giselle to learn more about how we can use social media more intentionally to improve our mental health. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [0:14:39] PF: If you start creating a practice where you do that, or you intentionally tell yourself, “I'm going to congratulate in my head, each person who celebrates something on Facebook.” Will that make a difference? Or you're saying like, you're cheering them on, whereas before, you might have been sitting there judging a little bit. [0:14:58] GU: I honestly believe it does, and I love how you said practice. Or maybe you didn't say it, but I heard it. But we do have to practice being happy for other people. I do believe that when we do that, it will come back in a form of gratitude for ourselves. It might feel sweet irony, a little fake and uncomfortable when you're forcing yourself to do that, but you're doing it for the goodness of your mind and perhaps, to melt away at your cold heart. It's gotten bitter over the years. Because let's just think about that for a moment. If you can't be happy for someone on their happiest day, whether it's their wedding, or their kid’s graduation, or they just got a new job, or they just bought a new house, or they moved, and your first instinct is, “Oh, must be nice. Oh, well, that's great that her husband got that or, oh, well, yeah, it must be easy for her to lose the weight.” Let's think about, hold on, where is that coming from? Where is the projected self-loathing frankly coming from? Where you decided to rule yourself out from that, or you became so bitter and nasty? We wouldn't want someone to be like that towards us on our day. Why are we doing that to them? Yes. Rather than just liking or continuing to scroll, something that I have also noticed with my clients is I always give them an assignment to turn passive scrolling into an actively engaged activity. Again, whenever we're scrolling, sometimes we're scrolling to numb, or we're scrolling because we want to be numb. We're just scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, not even paying attention, no concept of time. Maybe every now and then, we'll hit a like, or we'll double tap. I will give my clients the assignment of every time you open up the refrigerator, that is your social media, I want you to engage. If you see something, maybe it's someone you know, maybe they just accomplished something, or maybe they did something really difficult, or they shared something very vulnerable, rather than just to double tap something, write something, comment to them. Not just a little emoji, or a heart, but acknowledge it in a meaningful way. “Oh, my gosh, that's so exciting. I know how hard you have been working on that marathon. Oh, my gosh, you finally did it. I remember you talking about this years ago. Now you're finally learning how to ballroom dance. That's so awesome.” One more way that I've noticed my clients who were anxiously sometimes opening up that empty refrigerator that can be social media sometimes, all of a sudden going, “I think I got my fix.” They're not opening it up as often, because they were able to feel as if they did something productive. Whereas before, sometimes we open it up mindlessly hoping for that dopamine hit. Instead, they created their own dopamine hit by finding gratitude and happiness and celebration for someone, or something else. Then they end up putting their phone away. It makes sense if you think about it, don't you think? [0:18:13] PF: I love that. I love it, because we've all had that practice where we're like, just scrolling through there. It's like, there's nothing here. We hit refresh. Hoping better things will show up in our feed. If you think about it, these are people sharing their stories, however genuine or heartfelt they might be at that time. All we're doing is like, “Eh, that's not quite enough to keep me engaged.” Which is pretty crappy, because if they called you and said, “Hey, this happened,” you wouldn't be just like, “Mm. Call me back when you have something better.” [0:18:42] GU: Right. Or you would just ignore them completely from answering the phone. [0:18:47] PF: Right. I love that. What other tips do you have for being more mindful as you use social media, instead of being used by it? [0:18:54] GU: I love that you said that, because it's a phrase that I use very often, which is, is social media running you, or are you running your social media? The number one thing that I tell all of my clients is turn off your notifications, all of them, the likes, the comments, the DMs. The only time that I ever have notifications on for social media is if I'm specifically waiting for a message from someone who maybe doesn't have my phone number. It might be Facebook Marketplace, for example, or it might be my primary inbox on Instagram. It will be temporary. Only when that person really needs to get a hold of me, and they don't have my phone number. Otherwise, everything is turned completely off. When I'm checking my notifications, it's because I'm in control of it. I sometimes even take it a step further from my clients and I say, no email on your phone. No email on your phone, which sounds terrifying for so many people. What that ends up doing is oftentimes, whenever we get that email notification, even if it's from work, all of a sudden, that becomes the most important thing. [0:20:00] PF: Right. [0:20:01] GU: You will interrupt, disrupt whatever conversation, dinner, errand, or other important tasks that you were doing. It ends up actually taking up a lot of time for where you thought it only took five or 15 seconds, it maybe took 15 minutes. Or you ended up having to start that task that you were working on over again, or start that conversation over again. What ends up happening is if you take your email off of your phone, when you do your email at your desk, at your computer, you become more intentional and focused. Then you put your phone on do not disturb with the notifications turned off, and you have that time specifically to respond to whatever requests and clients that you need to get to as many times a day as you need. Hopefully, it's no more than maybe two to four times a day, versus every single 15 minutes of every single hour of every single day. [0:20:47] PF: Yeah. You start feeling yanked around. It's just like, I'm doing this, but then I just get pulled over here. One thing I've started doing is I don't even turn my phone on until after I eat breakfast, which a lot happens from the time I get up until after I eat breakfast. it was very difficult at first, because it's always like, “Okay, what work? What do my clients have? What do I need to do?” To be able to just breathe and say, nothing that that has to be done in the next two hours. It doesn't have to be done before 8.30 AM. Just enjoy life a little bit. [0:21:20] GU: That's absolutely one way to do it and determining what actually needs notifications, what actually needs sounds, what actually needs the flags and then visuals. I mean, some of you just have that default, everything has notification. When was the last time you really took the time to go, “What notifications are turned on? Which ones can I turn off?” Because I am someone who I do check my phone first thing in the morning. For me, it's a healthy experience. I have a healthy relationship with my phone. I want to make sure everyone is good. That doesn't mean that I'm then replying back to everybody. It does give me a sanity to be able to just unlock my phone, is everything good? No one's on fire. No one's in the hospital. Great. Now I can begin. Or I might use that as my inspiration and motivation, because when I do open up my feed, I see people who inspire me. I see things that motivate me, or I have my affirmation or my Bible versus that get me going on that particular day. I am in control of it. It's not in control of me. notifications, that is the biggest one. I even find sometimes that people feel they're going through withdrawals. Where because their phone isn't buzzing constantly, they then are flipping their phone over constantly. [0:22:32] PF: Really? [0:22:33] GU: Yes. That's where we sometimes have to take it a step further and go, okay, well, do we then have to have the phone in a different room? Because if you can't go to the bathroom, or sit in an elevator, or wait in a line without looking at your phone, we might need to check ourselves with where is that coming from? Where it's coming from is typically, validation, need for validation, or it might be an unhealthy relationship that you have with your job, or your boss, or your superiors, or your clients where you have no boundaries, whatsoever. That's also where we run into lack of confidence, because you are then running in this people pleasing loop, where you're constantly seeking the attention of other people, and/or how often have we gotten to the end of the day and it feels like we haven't done anything, because the whole day has been reactive. You're answering the email, answering the phone, answering the client, and never did you prioritize what you needed to do for yourself. That's also where I established a practice of making sure that somewhere in your day, you do have calendared in a phone-free section of time. Also, in your day, you do have calendared in the three most important things that you need to do today. You're three non-negotiables that you need to do today. Because where a lack of confidence also comes from is a lack of productivity, or feeling lazy, or feeling like you amount to nothing, or can't do very much. Even if you are going through a season of burnout, for you, the three most productive things that you might do might be going for a walk, might be taking a nap, might be writing in your journal. That might also be your unplugged moment of meditation. Having time that's carved out specifically and only for you, and not tied to your electronics. Those are little ways that if we keep those commitments to ourselves, we can also build off of confidence and also get rid of some of those addictions that we didn't even realize, “Oh, my gosh. Not only is my social media running me, but I am a slave to it. I didn't even realize.” [0:24:45] PF: Right. [0:24:46] GU: My gosh. If that's you, you can also set screen limits on your phone. That's where you can put time limits for your screen time, or time limits for specific apps. I have a social media screen time limit, so I actually just clump all of my social media apps together in that. Then I'll have the phone say, “Hey, you've hit your limit, or you have 15 minutes left.” Will I extend it? Yeah, I will sometimes. I totally will. At least I'm then becoming more aware versus not having anything at all. Or sometimes I might have it password protected if I need to, or if I'm feeling easily distracted. That's one more way that I'm able to stay focused and still make sure that I have control over my apps. Those are a few ways to get started, but I'm sure we could go on and on and on, but those are at least a couple places to keep going. [0:25:35] PF: That is such great advice. I wondered, you've worked with so many people. What changes have you seen in their wellbeing, in their – I know you're not a mental health professional, but you do see people and deal with their mental health struggles. What changes do you see in their wellbeing and mental health when they start implementing these practices? [0:25:56] GU: Yeah, and that's the thing too, is that I'm a certified high-performance coach. I work on confidence and clarity and time management and energy. At the root of it, it's a lot of those things. I see that people are better at managing their time, because of some of the simple ways in which they end up not having that same relationship with technology. I see confidence soar. Even taking it to the next level, one little productive thing that you can do is change your profile picture to your face and make sure that that face actually looks like you. When you have a face attached to your name, it makes your social media that much more personal. Also, when you can finally embrace what you look like now, versus maybe a headshot that you took before the pandemic, where we've all aged 20 years since. Things like that, it brings that relationship back. When we're engaging more, or even sharing more of ourselves, we see confidence go up, because you feel confident in your voice and that what you have to say matters. I actually see a lot of my clients feeling more comfortable, public speaking, or engaging in conversations, because of how they're active on social media. Setting boundaries. When we set screen time limits, or when we delete emails from our phone, or set our phone to do not disturb, or maybe we let our clients know that, “Hey, I don't take work calls after three,” those are things that we're doing as technological habits. I also see that crossover into other habits and boundaries and relationships as well. It's tiny little micro ways that we don't even realize we're taking our power back, that it starts showing up in every single area of your life. That's why I get really passionate about it, because where we can be so quick to blame social media and us as the victim, the reality is, is that you have a lot more power than you think. As soon as you start to slowly take that power back, it really does snowball into something so bigger, and you start to see the ways in which it's showing up in other areas, too. [0:27:53] PF: I love it. Giselle, that is a great way to wrap this up. You have so much to teach us. We are going to tell our listeners how they can find you. See, continue teaching us and we can keep learning from you. Thank you. Thank you so much for sitting down and talking to me about this today. [0:28:08] GU: Thank you. I love talking about it. My messaging, my inboxes are always open. If you found this conversation helpful, please, I would love to hear from you. Don't be passive. Send me a message, letting me know what you love most about this conversation. [0:28:22] PF: Thank you so much. [0:28:23] GU: Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:28:28] PF: That was Giselle Ugarte, talking about how to use social media to support our mental health. If you'd like to learn more about Giselle and the work she's doing, or follow her on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Live Happy Now, and if you aren't already receiving us every week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think of the show. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Supporting Mental Health Through Music With Brandon Staglin [INTRO] [00:00:04] PF: What’s up, everybody? This is Paula Felps, and you are listening to On a Positive Note. We've talked about how music can boost our mood and even help our bodies heal. Today, we're looking at what it can do for our mental health. For this episode, I'm talking with Brandon Staglin, co-founder and president of One Mind, a mental health nonprofit organization committed to improving brain health by supporting research and providing resources. Central to their mission is music, which Brandon explains has been an incredible healing tool in his own struggle with mental illness. He's here to talk about the One Mind music festival for brain health, and how that has helped build awareness for their mental health mission, and how he uses it for healing and connection in his own life. Let's have a listen. [EPISODE]   [0:00:51] PF: Brandon, thank you for joining me on On a Positive Note. [0:00:54] BS: Thank you, Paula. So much happy to be On a Positive Note, and it's a great day to talk about music and mental health. [0:01:00] PF: And you're a fantastic person to talk to about this subject. I've been following One Mind for a while. The work that you do is absolutely amazing. For those who haven't been following you, let's start by talking about what one mind is and what it does. [0:01:15] BS: One Mind is an organization that started 30 years ago, and it was founded by my family. My family founded One Mind, thanks to our shared experience with my schizophrenia diagnosis and recovery. I was diagnosed when I was 18 years old, back in 1990. It was an incredibly scary and dark time in my life, and in that of my whole family. There was a stretch of about a year when we didn't really know whether there would be any positive future for me at all. I was terrified that at any moment, I might go straight to hell, like I had this delusion in my mind that demons were after my soul, and that if I made any slight moral mistake, they pounce on me, and drive me off to hell for all eternity. It's just a terrifying thing to think every moment of every day, if you can imagine that. That drove me to exhaustion, and despair. Even though I was getting treatment for my mental illness, it wasn't working very well for the first six months. There were moments when I was so depressed that I felt suicidal, and moments where I seriously considering ending my life. Fortunately, I'm very grateful to be alive today. What saw me through those really dark times were three main factors in the beginning. One of them was the unconditional love of my family. They made sure I knew how deeply they loved me by telling me so in ways that reached me. There was a moment when I was shuffling around the house, just so dark, just so down, and depressed. My dad saw me there in the kitchen. He said, "There's a lot of love coming from here, Brandon." Even though I had not, I couldn't feel the love back at that moment. I wanted to feel that love again. That drove me to want to recover again, to be able to feel that love again for my family back with them again. That was a major factor in driving me to continue to work for getting well again. Then, other factors included a sense of purpose through staying involved with community activities, and volunteering, and education while I was recovering. As well as, early science-based medical care. From those experiences, I've learned principles that love is an important factor for life. That curiosity is also an important driver of motivation for people, and can lead to discoveries that can help people out there in the community. And that having a sense of purpose is essential to drive people forward toward recovery and toward a good life. Based on all we've learned through my experience in schizophrenia, my parents decided to found One Mind in 1995. They started out with the realization, learning from me, and from other families around us who had experienced similar challenges with our young ones. That the science was not up to par in terms of its ability to enable people to access treatments that were helpful for them in a way that would help them to get all the way to recovery. I was taking medications at the time that were somewhat helpful. But as I mentioned, they had not the full effect that I wanted, had terrible side effects. My parents realized, and now it's an important part of One Mind that precision medicine be a part of mental health care. Meaning that, science must develop ways to develop treatments that can help people right from their diagnosis, right in the very beginning of their illness. And not have to go through months and years of trial and error, and agony for finding something that could help them recover again. That was how we started One Mind. The very first event we had ever in 1995 called the Music Festival for Brain Health, and that's how music comes into play here in the conversation. [0:05:00] PF: I'm really curious to know why they built it around music, because you and I know now that that's such a natural tool for healing and for bringing people together. Wat was their thinking behind using music as the central focus of that event? [0:05:15] BS: The music festival was launched in 1995, with the intent that music could bring people together, as you say, in a way that transcends inhibitions, that transcends fears, and then brings people to have a deeper pour for each other, and love for each other in the moment, celebrating together. We call the music festival a celebration of life. Ever since the beginning, it's been like that. I remember in 2001, when September 11th happened in the United States. There was a lot of trepidation about whether we could put on the music festival. It was just days after that took place. But we did, we were able to get conductor to come, and orchestra to come. They played Ode to Joy during the music concert of that event, people were in tears. The conductor was just so overwhelmed by the response that he just – we have a photograph that he gave my mom this enthusiastic hug, and just the embrace was just great to see. But that's an example of how music can bring people together, and transcend fears, and overcome barriers to connection. Then, we make that a hallmark at the festival today. Basically, I make sure that everyone understands when they come to the festival, that it's a safe place to open up to each other about the challenges that they're facing with their mental health, and their families, and open place to talk about and share those experiences with each other. [0:06:45] PF: What else goes on? You have a concert, but you have events leading up to the concert as well throughout the day. Can you talk about the other things that happen before the music? [0:06:54] BS: Absolutely. It's a really special event, the music festival for brain health. It starts today with a science and innovation symposium, where we have the scientists who we fund, and support give talks about the amazing discoveries they're making. Every year, they come out with something new that blows me away, and really thrills the audience to know that these nutrients are coming down the line to help them and their families. We added on a component in the last year, in 2023 of innovation as well. We have a program called the One Line Rising Star Awards, which enables young, promising mental health scientists to make these discoveries toward better treatments, by giving them funding, and by giving them leadership training, so that they can grow their careers as influencers for better mental health research. And improve the field in ways that reflect the interests of people like me, like people, so many people out community who live with mental illness, and work to improve their lives. The other program that we offer through a science and innovation division at One Mind is called The One Mind Accelerator. Through this program, we help entrepreneurs who are taking some of the discoveries, like those our scientists have made, and turning them into products, and services, that can then be commercialized and scale to reach people all throughout our society. This is a kind of an outgrowth, our focus on science toward innovation. So, it's been a very successful 30 years of doing these programs now together. We've made some great breakthroughs, including ways to treat mental illness with electricity that are safe and actually remedy the symptoms using brain stimulation, including microbiome-based treatments for mental illness. Like what happens in your gut, the bacteria in your gut to treat depression, for example, and including peer support models for young people facing suicidality. Happy to expand more if you're interested later on. The gist of it is that, the scientists and innovators speak during the symposium of the music festival. That gives the audience so much hope to know that these innovations are coming down the line to help them and their families. [0:09:13] PF: Who's likely to attend the festival? [0:09:15] BS: Well, because the festival includes not only the science innovation symposium, but also, the most amazing wine tasting anywhere. [0:09:24] PF: Yes, you got three different – I feel like you have three different audiences for this. [0:09:28] BS: Yes. The festival goes like this. It includes the science innovation symposium, the wine tasting reception, following symposium. Then, there's the concert, which is kind of the highlight of the day. Then, there's the exclusive dinner up at my parent's home, at the top of our vineyard property in Napa Valley, which is where it takes place. That combination of events is something that really revs people up to be excited about the future for mental health and their families. Because it's a fundraiser, it helps them want to donate to support cause. Those are the four parts of the event. The kind of people coming would mainly include people with lived experience in their families of mental illness. So, families that have got young people, or brothers, or sisters who live with schizophrenia, who live with bipolar disorder, who live with major depression, eating disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder. We aim to help them have that sense of community at the festival, so they have that common bond, and reveling each other's company as well as in the events taking place. [0:10:35] PF: Let's talk about the music component of it and how that's really grown. When you first started, what kind of artists were you bringing in? Because you've got some – you have some very impressive lineups in the last few years. Talk about, when it first started, what was that like? [0:10:48] BS: Yes. We started out with orchestras playing, and we had celebrity conductors, conducting the orchestras. First year, we had Richard Williams, and another year, we had Ben Zander of the Boston Philharmonic, very charismatic conductor, who wrote a book called, The Art of Possibility. He's the one who conducted during the post September 11th festival that we had. Then, we evolved into jazz. We had Ramsay Lewis and his trio play. Then, we evolved into pop, and country, and R&B. Had artists like Gladys Knight, Brian Wilson performed, who was amazing. He totally brought it, he did it for no cost for us, because he believed in what we're doing. Then, we found artists like Jennifer Hudson, we had Tim McGraw, Sheryl Crow, and Lyle Lovett, and Jewel more recently. There's some really great stories about these artists and how they've been part of the festival. [0:11:42] PF: I know Jewel. I saw a lot of posts and things that she said about this, wrote about this. I would love to hear their experiences, because it's touching to me that there are so many artists are being so open about mental health, and how music has helped them. [0:11:57] BS: Yes. It's great to know that artists are being open about that, because it lets people know it's safe for them to talk about it too. These are role models for so many people, or at least people that feel close to through the music that they produce, and that they hear. So, yes, Jewel is actually a One Mind champion. She's an official ambassador for One Mind. We've worked with her for a few years now. She performed in 2022, as well as in 2014, so twice for us over the years.   [0:12:24] PF: Wow.   [0:12:24] BS: Yes. Had her back. She's just so great. She's been very open about her experiences, mental illness, and that's inspired a lot of people to know that recovery is possible for them to other artists who stood out, include Lyle Lovett, who lent me his guitar to play a song that I wrote about recovery from schizophrenia. That's a cause that is very dear to my heart to help people recovery is possible even from serious mental illness. There's still amazing things you can do left in life after recovery, during recovery. That song is called Horizons Left to Chase, and it's available on YouTube. When he lent me his guitar, like he was handing it to me like it's a baby or something. It was very gently, and making sure that I held it carefully. And I had it, and I say, "Okay. Well, here we go." I played it, and played my song. He listened very intently to the song like he was very interested. But people loved hearing the song too, which really gratified me. [0:13:19] PF: You have artists who perform who have talked openly about their struggles with mental health. Then, you have others who are just supportive of the mission. Is that correct? [0:13:28] BS: Yes. Yes, that's right. When Jennifer Hudson performed, she spoke a lot about her family's experiences with mental health. When Tim McGraw performed, he also supports brain injury, causes, and One Mind was involved in Brain Injury Research at that time. He was deeply involved in that. So many of the artists that I featured on brainwaves, that webcasts that I hosted for about 11 years were very open about their experiences with mental health, and mental illness. Artists deal with a lot of challenges with their mental health, and music is a way to kind of process those. I've personally discovered those experiences with music. [0:14:04] PF: That's what I'd really like to talk about, is how does music help people who are struggling with mental health. And if you have your own experiences that you can give us examples, that'd be fantastic. [0:14:14] BS: Yes, I'd love to do that. When I was about 35, it was about 17 years after I was initially diagnosed. I was into my recovery, but not fully well yet. I wasn't very socially adept, and so I didn't have a lot of friends or social connections that I could turn to for support, or just have fun with. So, I realized that if I learned to play guitar, I'd have a hobby that would be something that connect me to other people, as well as be something that I could really enjoy on my own. I took up guitar lessons that year, that was about quite a while ago, almost 20 years ago. I began to practice, and I found that playing guitar offers me amazing benefits. Not only is it a lot of fun, but it also helps me to focus, and to understand that I can feel real emotions. When people live with schizophrenia, we take medication so often, dampen our emotions due to the dopamine effects in the brain. The illness can have that effect to for people. Feeling the genuine emotions that the music brings out in me, is something that reconnects me to more parts of myself and makes me feel more whole as a human being, and a more spiritually full. Then, also the mastery aspect, like getting better at a practice is something that I love to engage in. It gives me a sense of humility to see how I'm not that adept yet at playing guitar, but I want to be better. So, it's a driving force for motivation in my life. [0:15:52] PF: Then, physically, it has so many great benefits too, because when you're playing and you sync with a rhythm, and you start, it has so many different physiological effects that you can benefit from as well. [0:16:05] BS: Yes. Just hearing the strings ring out when I'm tuning the guitar, focuses my mind, my attention, and it calms me down. I'm reading a book now called Your Brain on Art by Susan Magsamen and Ivy Ross. It was published last year, it's a New York Times bestseller, and it features my story in it, and how I've used music for my recovery. Susan Magsamen, who's the head of the International Arts and Minds Labs at Johns Hopkins University interviewed me year before and put my story in the book. But she talks about how music does affect the brain in the body, and how it can lower cortisol release, which is a stress hormone. It can put your body into a parasympathetic nervous system framework, so that you calm down and it aids your sleep. I experienced that too. I sleep so much better if I play guitar recently. It also brings in together so many different aspects of brain activity in sync with each other. That can kind of account for the experience I have of feeling more like a whole person after I play music, I think. [0:17:10] PF: Now, what about if you're just listening to music. Because I am a big proponent of playlists. I have a playlist for every mood, everything that can possibly happen in my life, I've got a playlist. I go to a playlist for it. How about that? Do you use recorded music as a way to manage emotions and regulate yourself? [0:17:28] BS: Yes, I do. I do. I really do. Like every morning when I'm driving to work or driving home from work, I put out some music to start the day well with things that are meaningful to me. Like songs that I really love, and bring me a sense of peace or inspiration. Many years ago, when I was first ill with schizophrenia, it was immensely beneficial to listen to my favorite songs that helped me to refocus on the moment and stopped associating into the psychosis that would be creeping up on me from time to time. Listening to music has been really something part of my life for like my entire life. It's a touchstone for me that helps me to cope and feel good. [0:18:08] PF: What are some of the things that musicians that you've talked with that perform at your festival? What are some of the ways that they say that it's helped their mental health? [0:18:17] BS: The musicians who perform the festivals, I haven't talked to them directly about how music benefits mental health, except for Jewel. She and I, during the dinner portion of the Music Festival event, in 2022, sat together at the dinner. So, I had a long conversation with her. For her, music has been a double-edged sword, it helps her to work through the challenges and experiences in her life, by articulating them, and kind of processing them through that lens of seeing them out there as a creation. But the thing that has come with her music is something that she wants to not have too much of, because fame can change people's perceptions of themselves, of the world around them, of reality. It can also impact your private life in so many ways. She has changed her genres many times throughout her career, and I really respect that she does this as a means to [inaudible 0:19:13] to be creative and create the kind of music that she wants to, and that's innovative for her, and brings her a sense of fulfillment, but keeps her fans guessing and on their toes at the same time. I have followed her throughout her career ever since the early 2000s, and all of her albums, even though she's been very multifaceted and eclectic in the genres that she's used. [0:19:33] PF: Yes. I had read an interview with her, where she said that she had intentionally stepped away right after she hit big, and she knew that this could be – it would be phenomenal for her career, but it can be very damaging for her mental health. So, she took a step back. I thought that was so wise and insightful for her to recognize what that could do to her. An artist, you're there to get famous, you're there to have a living you, and to have that right in front of you, and to be able to say, "But my mental health is more important," it's just absolutely incredible. [0:20:05] BS: Yes. It's incredibly wise to do it, like you say, and she has a song called Goodbye Alice in Wonderland on her album of the same name. She talks about in the song, in the lyrics that there's a difference between dreaming and pretending. She's found in her life through the fame that she's found that she doesn't want to pretend anymore. She wants to live a genuine life, and that's why she's leaving Wonderland, so to speak in the song. [0:20:32] PF: That's fantastic. There's so much good that comes out of music. One mind is doing so much good to help bridge music and mental health. For the people who are listening to this, if they have a family member who has recently been diagnosed, and things are becoming clearer, or if they have been living with this for a while, what is the thing that you want them to know about the journey that they're on? [0:20:57] BS: Yes. They should know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, that recovery is possible, even from the most serious of mental illnesses. That if you love somebody who's living with mental illness, you should also know that they're still them, even though they may not seem like them. Medication can change people's personalities, so can the illness. But deep inside, they're still who they who you've always known. And they can live a full and meaningful life again, if you continue to love and support them and access treatment that can help them. [0:21:29] PF: That's terrific, Brandon, we're going to tell everybody where they can find out more about the One Mind Music Festival. [0:21:35] BS: It's the One Mind Music Festival for Brain Health. This year, it's our 30th anniversary event. It's on September 7th 2024. We invite people to check out our website at music-festival.org to learn more about that wonderful event. [0:21:49] PF: All right, that is terrific. I appreciate you sitting down and talking with me today. It's been a pleasure to talk to you. Like I said, I've been following you for a while. It really is an honor to be able to chat with you about it. [0:21:59] BS: Thanks, Paula. It's great to talk to you too. I love your podcast and it's been great to be on. Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:22:07] PF: That was Brandon Staglin of One Mind, talking about music and mental health. If you'd like to learn more about One Mind, or the one Mind Music Festival for Brain Health, explore some of their resources, or follow them on social media, just visit livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of On a Positive Note and look forward to joining you again next time. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Becoming a Mindful Mother With Jennifer Mulholland [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 465 of Live Happy Now. In just a few days, we're going to celebrate Mother's Day. But the fact is, all the moms out there need to take time to celebrate themselves every day. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and today, I'm sitting down with Jennifer Mulholland, a working mom, conscious leadership expert, and co-author of the book, Leading with Light: Choosing Conscious Leadership When You're Ready for More. Jennifer's work focuses on cultivating presence and rediscovering the light within, and she's here to talk about how we can bring that business principle into our lives as mothers and how it can change the world for us and around us. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:47] PF: Jennifer, thank you for joining me on Live Happy Now. [0:00:49] JM: Thank you. It's so wonderful to be here today, Paula. [0:00:53] PF: We have a big day coming up, and that's Mother's Day. So, that's the perfect time to talk about something that you call mindful mothering. I was really taken by that phrase. I may have heard it before. But it landed with me differently when I received that email about you talking about that. So, I wonder to start things, if you could explain what it means to be a mindful mother. [0:01:16] JM: Lovely. Yes, I think, well, first of all, being a mother is such a gift that we've been given for those of us that have children, or mothering our pets, or mothering our parents. It comes in many different forms. But I really feel like we've just been given such an incredible gift to be in that role. Being a mindful mother really means being more aware, aligned, and intentional, and how we nurture those we care for, and how we nurture and care for ourselves. It's all too easy to be the givers, and the doers, and the coordinators, and the schedulers, and the lovers, and the band-aid-ers, and all the roles that mothering comes. It's too easy to leave ourselves out of that equation. So, being a mindful mother is really slowing down to be present with your way and how you care for others and how you care for yourself. [0:02:23] PF: That sounds amazing. We know that would have incredible results. You can tell just from thinking about it and how it feels when you think about that, you know it's going to have an incredible effect. But what happens in real life, when you're burning the candle at both ends, and the kids are going crazy, and all kinds of chaos is happening around you. How do you maintain that mindful mother state when everything around you is chaos? [0:02:49] JM: Yes. It's such a practice and it's a giant experiment. So, what works for me, may not work for you and we're all trying to figure it out. I would say, the old adage that we can't give what we don't have, I feel like is the routing of where I'm coming from with this kind of idea, in the sense that, to be mindful is to really be aware of what works for you and what doesn't. To be aligned with that and then be more intentional in how you show up. One of the greatest ways we can practice is practicing presence. Literally, being present with the micro-moment that shows up. Oftentimes, we are so hijacked as mothers, where we're doing one thing, and then we get a call from our child, or depending upon the age of your children, like you have a tug on your leg, or the door opens and it's all of a sudden, you're constantly distracted and multitasked and taken away from being present. So, practicing being present, pulling yourself back with whatever is in front of us. Because if a child or if a loved one comes in, then how can you be attentive with them fully? One of our greatest gifts is our presence. It's not necessarily what we're saying all the time, or the decisions that we're making, or the advice we're giving. It's the energy, it's the essence at which we show up in that exchange. Oftentimes, it's not verbal. Oftentimes, it's just the way we are when somebody is needing something from us. That can be a choice of whether it's frenetic, and distracted, and frustrated, and irritated because we've been interrupted for the 10 millionth time. That's human and we all get that place. Or it can be practice in a way that we really slow down and look to the other person of what are they needing from me right now? Do they need a solution? Do they need to be told? Do they need advice? Or do they just need my love and care, and I need a hold space for them, so they feel heard and seen and supported? So, they can figure it out. Man, that's the art of parenting, of just, when do you know when to shut up? When you don't know just to let your child figure it out for themselves? But you are really with them in that discovery. I feel like one of the routing of a practice is making sure that we are present with whatever is showing up in our field. Because when we are we actually take in more information. That's the awareness. We're able to see and sense and feel a lot more information coming in, that helps us attune and align to what is needed in the moment for ourselves and for the other person that's showing up. [0:06:10] PF: That goes completely into what you talk about in the business realm with conscious leadership and being present. How, as parents, as mothers, as women, do we learn how to start doing that? Because again, you talked about. It is a practice. It's something you can get up in the morning and say, “I'm going to be present today and I'm going to do this.” Then the fires start and they plan to go out the window. So, what are some of the tools that you use and that you give to others to help them learn how to be present? [0:06:42] JM: Well, one of the things, mantras I say, as soon as my feet hit the ground, when I wake up in the morning is, “I am fully embodied.” What that means for me is like my presence is fully in this vehicle and vessel. Because if it's not, we often kind of live in the realm of our heads. A lot of thinking. So, we kick into automatic habit of doing, doing, doing, and coordinating, and scheduling, and showing up, and driving, and all of the things that we do. Oftentimes that's coming from our headspace. So, really try and bring my awareness into my heart space and into the full body vehicle just with that mantra. It helps me ground so that I can listen to my body's cues. That is probably the number one hack that I think we miss a lot and in how our body speaks to us, giving us cues throughout the day of when we are feeling alive and aligned to our light within and when we're not. When we want to leave the room, when we want to procrastinate, when we want to pull back. When we live in our head, we kind of check out of our body's innate wisdom that's constantly giving us the cues of what works for us and what doesn't. One of the practices of being present is just tuning into how does my body feel in this moment? Am I leaning into this conversation? Am I feeling engaged? Do I want to learn more? Stay here? Am I curious? Or am I wanting to get the hell out of here as fast as I can? Am I frustrated? Am I distracted? Am I bored? Our bodies tell us that information all the time. So, I think as moms, as we're spinning a lot of plates and trying to be more mindful in the automatic role of giving, giving, giving, we forget that actually, if we can tune the attention back to mothering ourselves first, what does my body need in this moment? What is it telling me? What does my spirit soul, light, whatever you name it to be need, to feel calm, to feel peaceful, to feel connected? Your body will tell you. A great practice is, I love journal journaling. My business partner and I journal all the time. One great exercise is to literally write a letter to your body, or write a letter to your soul, or spirit, or light, or essence. And ask it what it needs from you, as if it was your inner child. So, if I'm exhausted and I am so tired at the end of the day, and I don't have any energy, and I'm gaining weight, and I'm feeling down, and I can't figure that out, write a letter to your body and ask what it needs. Your body will tell you. Just write, write, write what it’s saying. Or if you're feeling like, “Wow, I am so scattered and depleted by giving to all my relationships, and my partner, and my family, and my parents, I am just feeling depleted.” Ask your spirit, your light, what it needs to feel more alive, more connected. You'd be so surprised of the wisdom that you already have, we just forget to ask it. [0:10:26] PF: I love that. We do forget that we can tap into ourselves. We're always looking for a cup of coffee, or something else that's going to do that for us. You really talk about – what you're talking about is extreme self-care. It's not just taking a bubble bath. It's really taking care of your soul. It's more like soul care. As moms, it's often difficult to put ourselves first, to say like, “I am going to shut everything out and take care of myself.” But why is it important that women do that and take that time for self-care? How does that make them better as mothers? [MESSAGE] [0:11:03] PF: We'll be right back with Jennifer's answer about how moms can practice self-care. But right now, I wanted to share one of my favorite new indulgences. Discovering the incredibly luxurious bedding from Cozy Earth has completely changed the way I sleep. If you want to get some of the best sleep you've ever had, you need to check it out. I never dreamed that bedsheets could change your life. But Cozy Earth made a believer out of me with these super soft bamboo sheets. They not only feel amazing, but they come in so many beautiful colors that you'll find at least one that fits your style. What's even better is Cozy Earth is as convinced as I am that you'll love these sheets. So, they're offering a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty on every purchase. What have you got to lose? Not sleep. To sweeten the deal, we're giving you a discount so you can enjoy the luxury you deserve with Cozy Earth. So, head over to cozyearth.com and use promo code Happy 35 for an exclusive 35% off. That's cozyearth.com and use the promo code Happy 35. Now, let's get back to my talk with Jennifer and find out how practicing self-care makes us better mothers. [INTERVIEW CONTINUES] [0:12:14] JM: The world needs more love and care and connection and community and peace. I really believe like the feminine principle, the Divine Mother is here to help cultivate that state of being for ourselves and for all. If we desire that out there in a world where we wish that there's no more war, and we wish for more peace, the only way we are going to get to that as a society is to have that individually in ourselves. There's no better person equipped for that than the mother. Learning what self-care looks like to you, is I just want to say, it’s a giant experiment. Because I have gotten so frustrated myself of like, “Well, I know I need to care for myself. I don't freaking know how to do it. I don't know what I need and it changes.” So, give yourself more grace in experimenting and checking in, like, “What do I need and want in this moment? What would feel good?” I think that question, what feels good to me now is so helpful, and following the feeling of feeling good, is likely to lead to peace, and love, and more care, and nurturing. So, that feels like the playground. If we could follow the feeling of feeling good, more for ourselves, whatever that is, and that can change 10 times throughout the day, then we can really bring that state of calmness, of more peace and groundedness and connection to anybody we connect with, especially our families and loved ones. [0:14:14] PF: Yes. As you were talking, I could see just like putting it across my computer, what would feel good right now? Just so you have that constant reminder until you get into that rhythm of looking for that and seeking that out. In your work, because you work with so many different people. What do you see as the biggest obstacle to finding what is good for them? Because I know it's probably an obstacle we're putting up ourselves. [0:14:39] JM: I see so a lot of caregivers, that they're so good at caring for others and they've lost themselves, that they haven't put themselves in that relationship. Over time, that depletes us all, right? I've been one of them too. Just going, going, going and not even catching myself that – because it felt selfish in a way. Self-care, caring for self is not selfish. I just want to rearchitect that unconscious belief system that somehow we have to be humble, and be the givers, and the Wonder Women, and have the red capes to be able to come in, and be strong, and resilient, and know the answers, and know where we're going. And it's just bullshit, we don't, right? So, experimenting and being more gentle. One of the greatest barriers is lack of self-worth. I don't feel enough. I feel like I have to lose weight to be better. I have to dye my hair to be better. I have to have the right job to be better. I can't just be a mom. I have to be a working mom and I have to have a business and I have to be on this ladder and this trajectory. There’s so many conditions, unconsciously, I think that we have kind of layered ourselves with, and it's tricky, because it's not obvious. I think what I would love to, for other people, to give themselves permission to be human, and hear, and know that you're enough right now. That you have everything that you need to not only nurture others, but to nurture yourself in a more mindful, intentional way. We get to choose if the monkey mind, if the inner critic is getting louder and louder, and my confidence, or your confidence is going lower and lower, we get to choose when we're going to say, “How is that working for me? Is it working for me? Is it giving me the results I want?” If it's not, we get to choose. That's free will. We have this incredible ability to choose to not feed that narrative anymore. That's what gets in the way. The self-worth and society is, especially, in the United States. We are just being bombarded with Instagram ads and like model-type bodies, and this is the house you need to have. It beats you down after a while. [0:17:31] PF: How does that affect people as mothers? Because, again, they're getting that message of you shouldn't be doing this, and you should be all these things. And the normal female is like, “I'm not and I can't.” What does that do to us emotionally and mentally, when we're getting all these messages, that we should, we should, we should, and we're like, “I can't?” [0:17:56] JM: Right. Well, what has happened is that it's kicked in a response to do more. The opposite is the antidote, honestly. The less we do, the more space we have, the more space we create, the more space we give ourselves to be ourselves fully. We kind of can then start to subtly unplug from those unconscious messages, and cultural conditionings, and programs that kick us into this idea that we need to have more, do more, to be more. Where I'm sitting in practice is, “Well, what if I just were to be me? What would that look like?” That takes a lot of practice, to bring more of my full self to my children, instead of having such a schedule, to have space where there's no schedule, and there's room in those spaces for new connection, new insight to come through. If we're so overscheduled and we're on the hamster wheel seeking to be more, to do more, to have more, which is the kind of cultural machine in the United States. We just start to deplete because we're not restoring, we're not remembering who we are, and that who we are is a being, it's a human being. It's not a human doing, as we've all been kind of tricked to believe. [0:19:36] PF: I'd love to talk about how if a mother can change and learn to be a mindful mother can become more present, what is that going to teach her children? Because one thing we've talked about, just last week's podcast, we talked about Gen Z and the horrible state of mental health among young people, and what the surveys are showing us. Obviously, so much of it is your product of the home in which you're raised as well. So, if you become a mindful mother, what kind of gift are you giving your children? And how are you changing their experience when they become parents of their own? [0:20:12] JM: I come back to presence, because I think that is really getting hijacked to use that term, again, in society and with the technology that our attention spans have become so short in what we're able to sit with and be with. A mother's presence, unspoken, it's like the healing ointment that is needed. That may look like a deep connection with your child in that moment. It may just be sitting with them, not saying anything. It may be really deeply listening, not to fix, not to solve, not to give advice, but to listen to where they're coming from, as they share it. That seems to be a real helpful tool that if we can practice being present and not meeting our children in the frenetic bounce of subject to subject, multitask, multimedia, kind of state of affairs. If we can ground in learning how to quiet our own minds, we become less reactive, and we become more intentional in how we respond and participate in the care that we're giving. Again, we can't give that care unless we are giving that care to ourselves. So, I think with the Gen Z, we’re kind of in the state with mental health, where we have really bought our thinking. We're buying our low-quality thoughts. And we – [0:22:08] PF: I love how you put that. I've never heard it put that way and I love that. [0:22:12] JM: We're not taught to question them. We're taught to identify that those things, thoughts are me. That's who I am. Versus I'm in a low mood, I woke up feeling shitty, or whatever, and I'm having low-quality thinking right now. So, I'm actually not going to take my thinking so seriously, because I can't really trust it, because it's not really helpful. We get to choose what we're buying, and we just haven't really been educated or taught that we have a say in which thoughts we're going to digest. We do it so unconsciously. And the moment, we pull a thought down and digest it, guess what it does? It creates a feeling. That feeling then emanates and then we attract people that match that feeling. So, we have a society right now, and especially with the Gen Z generation, I feel like that they're being bombarded with so much negativity, and we don't have tools to help them navigate which thinking, which thoughts they're choosing, and which thoughts they're not. Now granted, there are many people that are in different states of mental health, that I don't want to diminish the causality, and the conditions that are so many different flavors that people have. But I do believe when we are present, we get to then more consciously choose which thoughts we're buying, and we want to bring into our digestive system, and create the feelings we want to have throughout the day and which ones we don't. [0:23:46] PF: I love the way you present that. It paints such a wonderful picture, and really sums it up. So, what do you want moms to think about? If you're talking directly to all the moms out there, what is the one thing that they should keep in mind say, beginning with this Mother's Day and then hearing through, to become more mindful, and to enjoy this journey of motherhood and life more? [0:24:12] JM: What do you really need for yourself to feel mothered? If you were to mother yourself, or if you are your own best friend, and you could wrap yourself in the care and the love and the nurturing that you really need, what you need today, tomorrow, this week, to feel more cared for? To feel more supported? To feel more gotten? To feel more loved? Try those things. Just do something for yourself. I would so encourage you to create space for yourself with yourself, with no one else. That can look like meditation. It could look like going for a walk outside in nature. It could look like journaling for five minutes on what you have to be grateful for. It could look like taking a yummy bath and putting bubbles in it. But just really mothering yourself is a learned practice. I didn't learn how to mother myself from my mom. I learned how to be a great mom to my children from my mom. But now, I'm like having to learn how do I mother myself? Mothering the mother within, I do feel like is a game changer to unlock this next level of capacity for our divine feminine that is wired to nurture. It's wired to naturally love, and include, and care, and create peace and harmony. Don't we want that for our families and communities in the world? So, I would encourage you as we go up to Mother's Day, to put yourself at that center and say, “What do I need to feel mothered? To feel nurtured? To feel loved?” And try it. [0:26:14] PF: I love it. That is a perfect way to wrap this up. You have a lot to teach us. We're going to tell our listeners how they can find your book, how they can find you, and learn more. But thank you. This is incredible conversation and I appreciate you coming and hanging out with me. [0:26:27] JM: Oh, thank you so much. To all the mothers out there, you're doing a great job and you're worth every single penny, every single second, and we're so grateful. I'm so grateful to walk this path with you. Thanks, Paula. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:26:46] PF: That was Jennifer Mulholland, talking about mindful motherhood. If you'd like to learn more about Jennifer, discover her book, Leading with Light, or follow her on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly live happy newsletter. Every week, we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Gen Z and Mental Health With Deborah Heisz [INTRODUCTION] [00:00:03] LM: Thank you for joining us for episode 466 of Live Happy Now. May is Mental Health Awareness Month. And while we look at mental health all year long, this is the perfect time to take an even closer look at something we all should be talking about. I'm your host, Paula Felps. And today I'm joined by Live Happy CEO and Co-Founder, Deborah Heisz, to talk about Gen Z and mental health. According to recent studies, Generation Z is experiencing unprecedented levels of anxiety, depression, and other mental health concerns. Today, Deb and I are talking about what's causing this Mental Health crisis among young people and what we all can do about it. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:43] PF: Deb, thank you for coming on the show. [00:00:47] DH: Thanks, Paula. It's always a joy when I get to spend some time with you talking about things that we're both passionate about. [00:00:53] PF: Yes. And May is Mental Health Month. We're doing this. This is the last episode of April. Tomorrow we start a shiny new month looking at mental health awareness. And this was a fantastic time to sit down and talk to you. You and I had had this conversation offline about The World Happiness Report and specifically its findings on Gen Z. And so, that conversation was so good. It's like let's do this on the air and talk about it. [00:01:20] DH: I think The World Happiness Report, for us it's kind of a landmark thing. It turns out we started Live Happy while they were working on the World Happiness Report. We of course didn't know that at the time. It's kind of we're parallel in age. We have the same age. What's interesting to me is the World Happiness Report really has started to take a deep dive into human well-being, which is something that wasn't taking place before that. I mean, positive psychology wasn't that old to begin with. And then for governments and for social agencies to really start looking not just at health concerns of their population. But, also, mental well-being of the population really hits the world happiness. A lot of that data is in the World Happiness Report. It's really kind of a cool thing for us. But I think for this year, it's interesting because something appeared that we hadn't seen before. Something really near and dear to my heart. And I kind of want to preface this conversation by reminding everybody or telling everybody if they don't already know, neither Paula nor I are scientists. Paula is an editor, gatherer of information, interpreter of information extraordinaire. One of the best interviewers I've ever met. And truly passionate about what we do at Live Happy. I am an MBA who runs businesses. I'm also a parent of teens who happen to – that's why this episode is particularly interesting to me. We're going to talk about a lot of stuff. But anything we say might be or actually is opinion. This topic is one that needs to be talked about. Needs to be talked about broadly. Which is why even though we don't have the scientific background, it's such a passion thing for us. And I know that you think, just like I think, people need to be talking about this. And what they need to be talking about is the well-being of Generation Z. I mean, when I'm retired, they're the ones who are going to be leading the world. We should really, really care about how they're thinking about themselves. What they're feeling and what they think of the world around them. There's a lot of concerning information in this year's World Happiness Report. [00:03:16] PF: Yeah. Because the thing that really struck me is, overall, in most countries, the happiest generation is the youngest generation. In the US, we were exactly the opposite. Our happiest generation is the Boomer. And then each subsequent generation just gets less happy. And by the time we get down to Gen Z, it's dismal. And that's alarming. Because we know that how happy you are in adolescence is a predictor of your happiness in adulthood. Where would you like to start unpacking this ginormous subject on? Because I'd really like to talk about what's driving it. And then, also, what we can do? Because there's no easy way to turn this around. [00:03:56] DH: No. No. There isn't. When you just mentioned that how happy you are at a young age, in your teen years, is a predictor of how happy you'll be later in life, the truly disturbing fact is that tends to be your happiest point in life. Your teenage years, you tend to be happier than you are later. If they're starting at a lower set point, that does not bode well for the future. If they're already less happy than 30-year-olds, how much less happier are they going to be when they're 30 than 30-year-olds right now? It's very concerning. And the question that everybody has to be asking is why are they less happy than prior generations? Why are they less happy than their peers in other countries or in other regions of the world? It's very concerning. And it's something that people really should be standing on the rooftop screaming, "We've got to do something about this." [00:04:47] PF: Yeah. I think it's like an all-hands-on-deck kind of crisis. Because if they're not happy, then they're giving birth to the next generation. You can just kind of extrapolate what goes on down the line if we can't turn this around. [00:05:01] DH: It's not something that's going to fix itself. It's something that people need to start looking at and saying, "Okay, what's causing this? How do we make changes? What is controllable?" It's always like, "Well, that's great. But I can't really control that." But there's a lot more that as a society we can control and influence that I think we realize. But we have to start. And the way to start is by at least talking about it. [00:05:24] PF: Absolutely. After we had talked about that, you were going to look up some things. Because you were very inspired not just from a professional standpoint. But as you mentioned, personally, you have children who fall into this age group and below. What were some of the things that you found as triggers that are preventing children from being happier? [00:05:45] DH: Well, I think two things really struck me as being things that impact the younger generations right now. And one of them is directly related to where they are in life. My kids – this is not being a scientist. Everything in the world around children is going to somehow be related to my children and to my brain. My kids are looking at college. They're looking at going to college. They're looking at what kind of life am I going to have after college? And I've had several dialogues with my son and his friends about I'm never going to be able to buy a house I'm like, "You're 16. What makes you think you're never going to be able to buy a house?" And they look out and they see the economy and they see all of the information about how expensive you're looking at going to college. How expensive going to college has become relative to what you earn afterwards. They see rising interest rates. They see rising home prices. And if you tell someone who's 16 years old that they're going to have to graduate from college $200,000 in debt and buy a house that's going to cost them $300,000 $400,000, they're like, "What? I will never be able to do that." Numbers they can't get their heads around. But more importantly, the media and the economy is telling them they won't. When we're looking at what's going on in the world and we're exposed to media, our kids are super exposed. I mean, they're on their phones. They talk to their friends. We all know that depending on which version of the internet you're looking at, which site you're looking at, you get different views. And their views may not be what we're seeing. But we do know that they look at the world very differently than the way we look at it. There's a great book by Jason Dorsey called Zconomy which really examines the difference about how young people approach business. How they approach looking for a job. How they approach everything in life. And how different it is from the way the Millennials, the Generations Z and how they approach it. And one of the interesting things to me that he points out is they're more like Generation X. They're more like my generation. How they think about it than they are with the Millennials. And what's cool about that to me is, first of all, I'm Generation X. Therefore, I can relate. And my kids think I'm cool. No. But I like to think they think I'm cool. But when I was growing up, we were coming out of massive inflation. We were coming out of the Reagan Era. There was a concern about jobs. We were pre-recession. But there was this hugely unstable economic outlook in our minds. And so, we all became focused on doing better, on personal achievement. Generation X is very focused on doing what they can do to control their environment, and career path, and working harder. And what's interesting is Generation Z is like that. Although, they don't have the hope that we had. We were always kind of told we can work really hard and control our future. And for some reason, all of this financial information and all this financial fear is manifesting differently in them. I don't think they have the hope they're going to be able to achieve what their parents achieved. That American dream of every generation's better. Maybe we've kind of reached the end of that where they're thinking I just want to catch up. I'm not looking to being better. I'm looking to not falling backwards. [00:09:03] PF: And do you think, too, growing up with parents who maybe are millennials or even Gen X and those parents were given everything and didn't learn how to save in the ways that they spend their money differently? And now Gen Z is like, "I don't want to be broke. I want to be able to do these things." [00:09:24] DH: I will say that Gen X and Millennials, as we know, are more likely to have credit card debt than Baby Boomers. Right? And they're more likely to be in debt. And I do think that there is a debt fear that the next generation doesn't want to be in debt because they've seen the oldest part of that generation live through the 2008 economic crisis. But the youngest part didn't. My son is 17. He was born in 2007. He does not remember 2008 when people were losing jobs and homes. But it does have a follow-on effect. There's that I don't want to be in debt. I don't want to owe people money. I just want to live my life. One of the good things I think though is, like the millennial generation, they care more about the environment. They care more about the planet. They care more about all of that. Here's the challenge. That doesn't necessarily manifest itself in hope. Right? [00:10:14] PF: And right now, it's more like a discouraging thing. Because every day we're seeing like, "Oh, here's one more atrocity that's being committed against the planet." And it's like just that constant drum beat of one more thing going wrong. One more species being extinct. [00:10:30] DH: And you look at it from a standpoint of – last night I was talking to my son and he needed to buy something. I pulled out my phone. I was going to order on Amazon. He's like, "Mom, don't order it on Amazon." I'm like, "Why?" He goes, "That's bad for the environment." Like, what? Everything gets trucked. Everything gets moved. But in his mind, having an individual package sent to the house is bad for the environment. Versus him going to the store and buying it. And I'm like, "Well, you use the same gas in the store to get –" never mind. Let's not introduce logic into the conversation. And he said, "I don't want to support big business. I want to support small business. I don't want conglomerates." That's what's in their head. They're scared of the environment. They're scared of their financial future. They don't see enough action being taken to improve those things. They don't know where they're going to end up. They don't know that the same jobs are going to be there. We look at AI like, "Oh, this is really cool." They look at AI like I was going to be a developer. I was going to be a writer. Am I going to have a job? [00:11:24] PF: Right. Do I just need to learn how to write prompts? Is that what my future holds? [00:11:29] DH: The future holds – scarier, right? A little scarier. I do think that that – now describing a problem, you hope there's a solution. I don't know what the solution is. But I do know that I think that has created a lot of what they're seeing and feeling. And as parents and as people interact with young people, we need to be cognizant of that's their starting place. Their starting place is the world is not healthy. Our generation is killing the Earth. Our opportunity isn't the same as your opportunity. I'm never going to be able to afford a house. I'm going to graduate – if I graduate from high school and go to college, I'm going to end up in a ton of debt. If I graduate from high school and get a job, I'm not going to have the same opportunities I would have had had I gone to college. It's a horrible choice to have to make. For some reason, that generation is focused on not what could be but what is right now. [00:12:18] PF: It's so very interesting. And as you and I have talked, one of the big things driving their mindset is what they see on social media. Because unlike where we grew up with television. And let's face it, it was a pretty sugarcoated TV land when you and I were growing up. We didn't have Dateline with a new dead person every week. It was a completely different world. the social media and how it is just constantly exposing them to new tragedies, to new dangers, to new ways to bully one another, what do you see that doing? You and I have talked about some of the studies that we've read. Can we kind of unpack that a little bit? [00:12:59] DH: I do think social media is a huge. And we go to conferences where they talk about social media having a huge negative impact. We need to acknowledge though social media has a positive impact as well. The positive impact is the ability to communicate, to build relationships, to find like-minded people. Maybe you live in a small town and no one around you seems to have the same interests as you have. You can go on social media and actually interact and have some meaningful touch points with people that are like you and figure out that you're not that weird. That there are other people like you in the world. Or have a conversation with somebody that maybe lives a long way away or maybe still talking to friends at school but you're able to communicate with a larger group and it feels more social and a little less isolated. Because we all know, social isolation is a big driver of depression and negative outlook on life. I do think, in a lot of ways, social media has helped kids feel more involved, more included. Flip side of that of course is the bullying and stuff like that. Is tragic and is an issue. But for me – we could do a whole episode on online bullying. But for me, I think the bigger thing is this FOMO, right? And this not having a good image of yourself when you engage not in that dialogue nature of social media. But in the observing nature of social media. There's this great study that was done. I think it was done by the Mayo Clinic. I'm not sure. Don't quote me on that once again. Not a scientist. But it talks about how, in adolescence, the part of your brain that processes emotions, it develops faster than the part that develops judgment critical thinking. You can have emotions and you can make decisions emotionally as teenagers are prone to do. We all know teenagers do not necessarily stop and think. That critical thinking isn't there. You can respond emotionally to content you're seeing on social media and not really think about it critically. That can develop body image issues in girls particularly. Well, although, boys as well. My son goes to the gym all the time and he really is focused on how he looks as well as being healthy. But body image issues can come into it. Because even though you're seeing it on social media, you don't necessarily think that's not real. Unless it's obviously not real, right? And the other thing is they can see people doing things. And those people look really happy. And they can emotionally react and go, "All those people – that looks like so much fun because all those people are doing it." And then they think, in order to be happy, they need to do that. [BREAK] [00:15:32] PF: We'll get right back to my conversation about Gen Z and mental health. But in addition to this being Mental Health Awareness Month, we have Mother's Day right around the corner. And if you have a new mom in your life, why not give her the gift of a good night's sleep? Did you know that 70% of new parents lose about 3 hours of sleep every night during their baby's first year? Why not help her make the most of the hours she does get with luxurious bedding from Cozy Earth? These super soft bamboo sheets will immediately become her favorite thing. Cozy Earth is so sure that she'll love these sheets that they offer a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty on every purchase, which means these sheets will last her through the hardest days and longest nights of motherhood. There's no better way to give the gift of self-care, improve her sleep quality, and enhance her overall wellness. And even better, we're going to give you a discount so you can give her the luxury she deserves with Cozy Earth. Head over to cozyearth.com and use the promo code HAPPY35 for an exclusive 35% off. That's cozyearth.com. And the promo code is HAPPY35. Now, if you're a fan of being comfortable both day and night, I'd like to invite you to check out the incredibly comfy clothing line from Franne Golde. You want to live in these clothes that are designed to make you look your best while feeling amazing. My personal favorite is the magic pant, which is soft, stretchy, and stylish, and will take you from a day in the office to a night on the town. Franne Golde is providing Live Happy now listeners 20% off their first order of $75 or more. Go to frannegolde.com/podcast and use code HAPPY for 20% off. That's frannegolde.com/podcast for 20% off your order of $75 more with code HAPPY. And now, let's get back to talking about Gen Z. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [00:17:35] DH: There's this discordance between what they're seeing and what's real. You brought up we watched television. We watched television. We knew that wasn't real. [inaudible 00:17:44] wasn't real. We knew the Loveboat wasn't real. [00:17:48] PF: Wait. Wait. What? [00:17:52] DH: Fantasy Island wasn't real. We watched it and it was entertaining. But we knew that wasn't real life. Social media, I don't think kids get that the image – I think they get it if you talk to them about it. They know it's not real. But, emotionally, they're reacting to it. And so, they may know it's not real. But they still create worry and concern in them. Too much social media, it creates this image that they think they need to live up to. And then they add on, "I'm never going to have enough money. I'm never going to be cute enough. I'm never going to –" whatever it is. It creates a problem. And I do think that's a big driver of why they're unhappy. [00:18:29] PF: There's an organization called Ruling Our eXperiences and they deal with how social media affects young girls. And one of the things that they found is how greatly it – as you had talked about the eating disorders. But it said it also is leading to mental health things like suicidal ideation. And it's become more accepted among teenage girls to go to that place. We didn't have that issue growing up. You didn't think these kids are picking on me, I'm going to go kill myself. And I've seen things recently where there was like an 8-year-old boy that committed suicide after being bullied. And it's just online. And it's just astounding to me that these things are filtering through to our children. Those are the outcomes that we're getting because they somewhere are getting the message that that's the only way out. [00:19:18] DH: Yeah. It's tragic. And we do know – we do know that there's more suicidal ideation comes along. But the question is, for me, it's always is it just that people are talking about it more? Or is it actually new? And then when you start looking like an 8-year-old, thank God, that's a huge outlier. But it's not as taboo to talk about as it was when I was growing up, for sure. It was a really rare occurrence that you heard about it or thought about it. Heard about it at school. It just was not that prevalent. And so, you kind of wonder how much just introducing an idea is part of an issue. Right? But then again, if you don't talk about it, then you can't solve the problem. This stuck. One of the things that I thought was really interesting, and I know I started off this way on social media, was we always want to point at the negatives without pointing at the positives. And I think when we look at generation, we really need to look at the fact that they were hit much harder by the pandemic than any other group. And social media helped get them through that, that isolation sense. [00:20:23] PF: Yes. [00:20:25] DH: But that pandemic I also think significantly contributed in our country overall negative outlook. By social isolation, I mean kids staying home for two years as opposed to going to school. [00:20:38] PF: And this was during key times of development. How does a kindergartner learn social skills if they've been at home for two years? [00:20:47] DH: Right. And then a lot of them, homeschoolings weigh up as a result too. Kids didn't go back to school. They continued their social isolation, which is interesting. Like, "Oh, they could go back to school. But now they're comfortable at home. They don't want to. They don't want to go back out and interact with people." And you hear about people that were at the wrong time in terms of development and they missed their prom, they missed their graduation. They started school. But I'm not as concerned about them. Because that's going to end up being – that was a really sad thing. But you kind of got your social skills by the time you're 16 or 17. But you're right. 10-year-olds are very different. They're not fully socially developed. They haven't figured out how to interact. Doing team projects at school. Just playing on the playground. All that stuff, which decades of research showing how important that stuff is to kids is just gone for a couple years. And they ended up in their little cocoon and their little bubble. And there's fear of social interaction. Learning how to interview for a job, learning how to write a resume, all that stuff that we need to teach not in college. You need to learn how to do that in high school. Well, there were no jobs to go get. You missed that too. There's just so much that they missed. I look back and I'm like I would be so sad if I didn't have that part of my life. And they didn't. [00:22:08] PF: Yeah. Like you said, there's no way to go reclaim that. We don't get a doover starting in 2020. Although, I think we all deserve one. But, yeah, especially the kids. How do we start reaching out? And how do we start creating a different world knowing what they're going through? [00:22:28] DH: Well, I think, first thing, except there's a problem. First of all – and the World Happiness Report is great. There's a problem we have to start talking about. I don't think anyone knows the answers. They kind of know the answers to various smaller issues, like social media intrinsically is not bad. But we should monitor what our children are doing on social media. We should know what they're doing. We should monitor the amount of time. We should balance online interactions with real-world interactions. Don't leave them to their own devices. Don't say, "Oh, well, here – literally device. Here's your iPad and go." In fact, my kids call – probably not a nice word, but they'll call not a nice descriptor. But they'll say that's an iPad kid. Meaning that kid doesn't socially interact. [00:23:14] PF: Wow. That is amazing. That is amazing that it now it actually has that phrase. [00:23:19] DH: It's a negative connotation. And I'm like, "Don't say that." But that's what they mean, "Oh, that's an iPad kid." We as parents need to acknowledge that we're responsible for how much time, and how much interaction, and what they're doing, and knowing what's on. I mean, my kids hate it. But you will keep your find my phone on. Because if I can't find your phone, I can't find you. And if I can't find you and I can't find your phone, you don't need a phone. And I'll know where it's going to be. It's going to be here in the house. Right? But we need to take responsibility and not demonize social media. Because if you tell your kid it's all bad, you don't need to be doing it. You're not telling them the truth. I mean, when we did research for this podcast, as light as it was, being that we're not scientists, but when we did research for this podcast, where did we go? We went online. [00:24:08] PF: Internet. Yeah. [00:24:09] DH: We went to the internet. I mean, the internet's a tool. It's pervasive in their life. Y ou can't take that away. That's not going to work. And social media is part of that tool. I need to do a deep dive into X, Y, Z. And I find a Facebook group that talks about X, Y, Z. It's part – actually, they wouldn't find a Facebook. They'd find an Instagram. But – [00:24:30] PF: Or TikTok. Until it's banned. [00:24:31] DH: Or TikTok. Exactly. But it by itself is not evil or detrimental. But we have to monitor what they're doing. We have to know what they're doing. We have to set limits and boundaries and be parents. And we also need to encourage them to develop face-to-face social skills. Actually, get out and talk to people. Learn how to shake somebody's hand. Learn how to have a conversation. Learn how to interact with somebody who's an adult on a regular basis. But we're not going to fix it by fixing social media. Social media itself doesn't fix it, right? But I do think it all stems back to having the dialogue. Understanding that where the youth go is where we go. This country, the United States, was really built in its current form by the Baby Boomer generation. I mean, I'm Generation X. I'm right behind them. But if you look at everything in our society in general, it's Boomers that are – which is a negative word too. iPad kids and Boomers. It was really built by that generation. And as Millennials and Generation Z move into positions of power and authority, they're going to have control over our economy and over our lives. And what they care about is different than maybe what the Boomers cared about. And acknowledging that, and having dialogue, and caring, and paying attention to what they care about and starting to work on some of those things. I mean, I don't know or care what any listener's position is on global warming. But I will tell you that our generation, our generation Z, they aren't talking about global warming. They're talking about impact, litter, oceans being dirty, air being dirty. They are looking at the whole thing of are we taking care of the Earth. In a way, I think past Generations really didn't. Even though they said that they did. That generation is fully embedded in polar bears are dying. We need to take care of the oceans. And we're missing out on animals that used to exist. And we have too much pollution. And they'll even tell you, "But electrical cars aren't the answer because there's battery parts that are bad for the –" they're looking for answers that they don't have. [inaudible 00:26:56] find them. [00:26:57] PF: Yeah. And I think this this is where it's really – where you talk about social media and the internet having so much purpose. What is done – we used to be so removed at polar bears are dying. But that didn't affect me. Now they're watching a video. They are seeing things in real life. And it affects them profoundly. [00:27:16] DH: It does. And a lot of it has to do with – back to the point that they are emotionally developed but not critically developed, critical thinkers. Has to do with their source. If somebody is attaching great meaning to something, they're incredibly smart, they don't have the cognitive reasoning that jumps in to say, "Is that right?" right away. They can be easily swayed by what they're seeing. And I'll tell you one thing that drives me crazy is advertisers know that. [00:27:45] PF: Yes. [00:27:45] DH: They know that if they drop that ad into social media and they get an emotional reaction either because it's funny or because – it's not as simple as we were. It's like it was cool. No. They actually make them laugh or they make them cry. They know that whatever it is they're advertising is going to be affiliated with that emotion. They know that. And that there's not necessarily critical thinking to parse that in younger people, in teenagers even. And so, they take advantage of that. We just have to be cognizant of the fact that they don't have straightforward news like we used to have. Just the facts, ma'am. Right? That doesn't exist anymore. They get all of everything that's going on in the world from a million different directions. Some of it's cultivated. Some of it's made up. Some of it's got meaning attached to it. We need to have those offline conversations. And as non-parents, have those offline conversations. Don't just assume it's just going to happen. That somehow these people are miraculously going to figure out that that's not real, or that this is real, or that this isn't important. And know that everything that we're bombarding everybody with, including ourselves, is manipulating us in one way or another. Try not to do that. They need to know that it's going to be okay. And I don't think the way our media is set up, you and I have talked all about, I can't tell you how many times I've said be wary of what you put in your head, my kids, to people we've talked about, Live Happy, you worry what you put in your head. So you start believing it. And they are inundated with stuff that tells them they're less than, that tells them there's something to be scared of. We've got to start balancing that with the other side. There's a lot to hope for. There's a lot of good coming down the pipe. We've got to spend time and energy creating that content. And aren't we lucky that we get to do that for a living, Paula? [00:29:35] PF: I love that. But you know what? I'd also love to hear is what our listeners think. I'd love to hear what they're doing with their children, with other Gen Z. If they want to drop us an email, editor@livehappy.com, and let us know. And let us know what you'd like to hear more on this topic. Because it is a mental health crisis that we've got to resolve. Because it's not going to resolve itself. [00:29:59] DH: Well, and our commitment to our listeners is you're like, "Yeah, you guys have been babbling about the problem. Didn't feel any better today." That's okay. Our commitment to our listeners is we're going to try and get some of the experts out there that are studying this on the podcast. Not next week. We're going to be doing some additional podcasts on this topic in the future. Some more expertise than we have. But it was such a standout moment in the World Happiness Report this year. We felt it was worth talking about. And at least creating the thought or the dialogue where people can say, "Hey, we need to be talking about this." Because we do. We really, really do. I think if you don't know how disenfranchised that generation is feeling right now, you just need to be aware that that's what's going on with them. And we've got a moral obligation to help them find success and find happiness in their lives. And they're not starting from a good spot. [00:30:55] PF: All right. Well, we'll do what we can. We'll start working on it. [00:30:59] DH: All right. You get on that, Paula. [00:30:59] PF: Yeah. I'll put it on my to-do list. But, thank you. Yeah, thank you for having this conversation. As you said, we are going to be talking with some experts about it. Bringing some other people in to really look at specific areas that we can make improvements in. Specific things that we can do. And, again, we'd love to hear from our listeners, editor@livehappy.com. We want to know what you want to hear and what you're. [OUTRO] [00:31:27] PF: That was Live Happy's CEO and Co-Founder, Deborah Heisz, talking with me about Gen Z and mental health. We'd love to hear what you think about this topic. Be sure to drop us a line at editor@livehappy.com and tell us what you think. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. And until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Reclaim Your Personal Power With Dr. Emma Seppälä [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 465 of Live Happy Now. We live in a world that is increasingly chaotic, and this week's guest has a better roadmap for navigating this uncertain territory. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and today I'm sitting down with Dr. Emma Seppälä, a Yale professor, bestselling author, and research scientist, whose new book is, Sovereign: Reclaim Your Freedom, Energy, and Power in a Time of Distraction, Uncertainty, and Chaos. Emma is here to talk about how embracing both our positive and negative experiences and becoming more compassionate with ourselves, can improve our relationships, cultivate greater personal freedom, and even improve our physical health. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:47] PF: Emma, welcome to Live Happy Now. [0:00:49] ES: Thank you, I'm so happy to be here. [0:00:51] PF: It's such an honor to have you on the show. You've done some amazing work already and you have a brand-new book coming out that we're going to talk about, but I really appreciate you taking the time to sit down and talk to us today. [0:01:02] ES: Absolutely. Yes. I'm delighted. [0:01:06] PF: So, your new book is called Sovereign and that's a word we don't hear a lot. It kind of stops you for a moment. So, it takes a little bit of an introduction to understand what is sovereignty and especially for you, you talk about personal sovereignty. Can you explain that to us? [0:01:23] ES: Absolutely. So, my first book was about science of happiness, and there's a lot to share there, as you know, from your podcast. But after – I used all those practices, and I use them still daily. But I realized there was another element that you can be doing all the self-care practices you want. But if you don't have sovereignty, and I'll explain what that is, then you can't get all the way there. What do I mean by that, you can meditate all day, but if you are highly self-critical, and buy into fears and beliefs about yourself, that are not serving you, and engage in behaviors and addictive habits that are destructive, then you're not going to be able to attain the level of fulfillment that you wish, nor are you going to be able to show up as your best self. So, I think it's helpful if I give an example. [0:02:12] PF: Please. Yes. [0:02:13] ES: Yes, I teach audiences. So, I teach executives at the Yale School of Management and I see these highly talented people coming through. When I ask audiences, “How many of you are self-critical”, 90% to 95% of people raise their hand. As you probably know, from psychology, self-criticism is a form of self-loathing. When you think about that for a second, you're like, “Wait a second, 90% to 95% of people are walking around with self-loathing. That's pretty intense.” When you look at the research, self-criticism, as you’re beating yourself up whenever you make mistakes, which most people do, is linked to anxiety, is linked to depression, it's linked to fear of failure, it's linked to less willingness to try again. All of the things that are the opposite of resilience are the opposite of wellbeing. And you've got to wonder, like, I mean, you can wonder where this all comes from. But that that actually doesn't really matter. I mean, it's social conditioning, programming, whatever you want to call it. But the idea is, once we can acknowledge that this is happening, that's when you can have that awareness and step out of it and reprogram yourself, and question the way you've been doing things because research shows when we have a more life supportive relationship with ourselves, that's when we're really going to thrive. So, I often ask people, what do you say to yourself when you make a big mistake? People usually say, “You're such an idiot. Blanc.” Those kinds of words. But then if you ask people, what would you say to your best friend who've made the same mistake? They'll say, “You're okay. Everyone makes mistakes. You're doing great. Don't worry.” Right? [0:03:40] PF: Right. [0:03:41] ES: So, the question is, what's the difference between you and your best friend, there's no difference other than that you live inside different bodies. You got to wonder, so that's where I question some of these beliefs and I call that the bound state, because that binds us. It's like we have like an inner terrorist living inside of us and that is not allowing us to show up at our full potential. The majority of people on their deathbeds regret not living the life they wanted. Let's not be one of those people. [0:04:09] PF: Yes. I love this because I know people who don't understand why the practices aren't working for them. It's like, but I practice gratitude, and I practice, I want to forgive people and I try these different things, try to take these steps toward joy. I practice kindness and it's just not getting them quite there. This is kind of like tilling the soil, to make the – plant the seeds that will really be able to grow and make those practices bloom. [0:04:38] ES: Absolutely. So, one other example is I have a whole chapter on the mind, and so many of us don't realize that we are conditioning our minds all day long with the information we're taking, and we're taking in over 60,000 gigabytes of information across all our media channels every day, which is enough to crash a small computer in a week. I mean – [0:04:56] PF: Oh, my gosh. That’s overwhelming. [0:04:58] ES: It’s overwhelming. When you think about it, so what is it that we're taking in? And are we aware of what we're taking in, and the impact it's having on us? If you're constantly taking in, let's say, news, you're conditioning yourself for fear and anxiety. If you're constantly taking in, if you're just doom scrolling, and looking at accounts that are making you want to buy something, or making you feel like you're not attractive enough, or whatever the other things, many things that evoke desire are ways that we're conditioning our mind for anxiety, for depression. Many of us are not aware of everything we're taking in, and what the quality of our mind that ensues. So, you are what you eat is also true of your mind. One of the things I'm inviting people to do is okay, what are you conditioning your mind with? Of course, the mind is also conditioned by everything else, it's received, like, for example, that the self-loathing is something that is passed down in families and societies. Yes, I mean, there's so much more to say. I mean, trauma is obviously also something that everybody, most people have to deal with a certain level of it and that's a form of mind conditioning. There are ways that we can help ourselves to become aware of state of our mind and what we can do about it, to have a more sovereign mind. [0:06:11] PF: This is such a huge topic and I look at all the different silos that it affects when you talk about, we're being programmed, we have our own internal cues that we're giving ourselves. How did you even start mapping out what all needed to be included in this? What you needed to address, and then how did you research this? Because it is a massive, massive, and it's not something that I've seen touched on a lot. [0:06:37] ES: Thank you, Paula. This doesn't sound very scientific. But it does, in some sense that I feel like this book came to me. Actually, when we look at research on creativity, we get our ideas. Those aha moments often come in times when we're in meditation, or when we're in this alpha wave, brainwave state. I feel like this book came to me, and I had it all mapped out in my mind. Of course, also, was my own experience. I went through my own experience of feeling like, “Wow, I'm applying all the happiness principles, but I'm still in this bound state and I had like a major health issue.” I realized, “Well, there are certain beliefs, there are certain habits, and things that we engage in that can bind us, regardless.” Like I said earlier, of the practices we're doing. So, the book really mapped itself out in my own mind, and each chapter could be a book on its own. In fact, I've had early readers read it and be like, “Oh, well, I'm not going to write a book about this whole topic that you address in one chapter.” I have one chapter on intuition, which doesn't sound scientific, but there's research on it. Neuroscience research, the military is doing research on it and there's really interesting findings. One of my colleagues was like, “Well, my next book is about intuition, because I read your chapter.” So, you could go so deep and this is sort of an introduction to sovereignty, I think. And then readers can explore the topic further as it applies to them. [0:07:56] PF: How does it specifically fit in this time we live in? Fifteen years ago, it wouldn't land the way that it lands today. So, can you talk about this, why this is a book that is really a book of our times? [0:08:10] ES: We live in a time of hyper-distraction, and to the point where there's so much coming at us that sometimes it's hard to know what we think, who we are, and what we believe, because there is so much and it's a sailing on our senses. And it's a sailing on our mind, and we know that the quality of our life depends on the state of our mind, right? You could be in traffic and still be happy. Or you could be on a desert, on a beautiful – Hawaii or something and be unhappy. It's all about state of our mind. This is a time also where there's just chaos. There's chaos outside, there's chaos on the globe, there's distraction, like crazy through, all of our media channels, different messaging, who knows what to even – what to align with. In a sense, we can so easily lose our footing with regard to our state of mind or state of being and a lot of people are struggling. There are also countless forms of addictive distractions to help us feel better, right? Whether it's – anyway, I'm not just talking about the regular alcohol and drugs. There's – [0:09:12] PF: We’ve progressed past that. [0:09:14] ES: Yes. There's so much now. There's so much and so many people profiting from that and so many businesses run off of them many ways. Even some people it's like, “Well, they're overworking or over exercising or you whatever it is.” I think a lot of people feel lost. [0:09:31] PF: It's like we're bombarded with so much but our lives feel empty. There's such a dichotomy there. But it's like there's so much coming at us and coming at us and we don't really drink in the nutrients that we need for a healthy life, emotional, healthy life. [0:09:48] ES: I love how you just said that, Paula. That's exactly right. So, this book is an invitation to become aware of the many different ways in which we are being bombarded, in which we are standing in our own way without realizing, and waking up to the fact that we have a choice, and what are some things we can do to reclaim the life that we want to live, how we want to live it. Ideally, in the fullest expression of ourselves and to how to navigate these times. [0:10:15] PF: Can you talk about where someone starts? Does it start with identifying where we're at? And then deciding what you need? Or how do we start reclaiming that personal sovereignty? [0:10:25] ES: So, I do include a lot of tools in the book, because I remember this, there was so much talk about self-love at some point, and you kind of felt like, what the heck is that? How do you even do that? As a scientist, I like to keep things really pragmatic. My first chapter is actually about sovereign self. Sovereign self, sovereign emotion, sovereign mind, sovereign relationship, sovereign intuition, and so forth, sovereign body. But I start with sovereign self because of that, like I said earlier, that state of self-loathing that most people are in, and that we don't even realize. I think one of the first steps to sovereignty is becoming aware of how we treat ourselves, and also having – but in order to build that self-awareness, a practice I really encourages meditation, which is now no longer – which is now popular, thanks to research that my colleagues and I did, and we've done some of that research. But I think for a lot of people, meditation is still a strain. Because when there's anxiety and you sit to meditate, it's really hard. So, I think a lot of people have tried meditation and kind of feel like, “It doesn't work for me.” We actually conducted research on breathing. For veterans with trauma, those are my original studies that we ran, because there was such high levels of anxiety that sitting and meditating was not an option. I can relate to that, because I was in New York City during 9/11 and I tried eating after that, and it was just not going to work for me. What worked was a breathing practice called SKY Breath Meditation. Then 10 years later, and I’m working with veterans with trauma, and again, they were falling through the cracks with regards to therapy and pharmaceutical approaches. Then meditation, the mindfulness studies were not working out at the time in the VA that I was in because they were, again, when you have high anxiety, sitting and closing your eyes is just more anxiety provoking. So, we wanted to see, “Well, maybe this breathing practice that I learned all those years go through to that non-profit called Art of Living.” I thought maybe we can work with them, to see if we can work the veterans. We did, and it was really amazing to see how using your breath, you can really reprogram your nervous system. In a sense, and again, actually the nonprofit that we worked with is called Project Welcome Home Troops and they offer this breathing for veterans, military, active, and their families. But what's really interesting to me, as I call it, and Paula, tell me, if you agree on this, that psychology is such a top-down approach. It's like all about change your thoughts, change your life. Right? [0:12:50] PF: Right. We want that simple, like, “Okay, but where do I start? I'm anxious, I don't have time to sit down and read a book. Tell me what to do.” And we can take a breath. You can learn to take a breath. I know that breathing is just a lifesaver. I remember being told when I was going through a very difficult time in my 30s, and someone said, “Paula, just breathe.” I thought, “That's stupid.” Then I breathed, and it's like, okay, and that saying just sticks in my head forever. Like, “Paula, just breathe.” That's that trigger, when I get anxious is like, just breathe. And it does, it changes everything for people. [0:13:29] ES: Changes everything. And it was the most moving research study I've ever run, because the veterans were at risk for taking their own lives and they said, “Thanks for giving me my life back.” And I thought, “Wow, something so simple, and yet so powerful.” In fact, yes, this week, actually, just this very week, I'm actually teaching someone who grew up as an enslaved person in Nepal, working in the sweatshops. I just met her a couple of days ago. In fact, I talk about her in my book in the introduction. She said, “Can you teach me?” It's making a huge difference. It's like, wow, I wish all people and all children and like – imagine everyone learns at 18. There goes your childhood trauma. Move on, sovereign. [0:14:12] PF: There you go. We'll get right back to my conversation with Emma. [MESSAGE] [0:14:15] PF: But I wanted to take a moment to remind you that Mother's Day is just around the corner. If you're still trying to figure out the right gift for your mom, why not give her the very thing you took from her when you were born? Sleep. Sleep is so important to your physical and mental health and one way to get better sleep is with luxurious bedding from Cozy Earth. I recently discovered their incredible super soft bamboo sheets and I'm telling you, this is the easiest way to give your mom an incredible night's sleep. Their temperature-regulating bedding means it doesn't matter if she runs hot or cold. She's going to enjoy a fabulous night of sleep while enjoying the ultimate and comfort and indulgence. This is truly a gift that keeps on giving and even better, we're going to give you a discount so you give her the luxury she deserves with Cozy Earth. Head over to cozyearth.com and use the promo code happy 35 for an exclusive 35% off. That's cozyearth.com and use the promo code happy 35. Now, let's hear more from Dr. Emma Seppälä. [INTERVIEW CONTINUES] [0:15:19] ES: SKY Breath MEDITATION is a really powerful protocol. But what it showed us is that just as you can train your muscles to be strong for you to go out in the world, you can train your nervous system to be more resilient to stress by conditioning it and to be more in that parasympathetic mode. It's stress resiliency and that's what I love. [0:15:38] PF: Yes. That's such an important step. Then what about with all this self-loathing and self-criticism? What's so interesting, because it can be self-critical, but I've never thought of it as self-loathing. I just thought, I'm just mean to myself sometimes. So, when you frame it like that, that gives you a whole different perspective. So, how do people go about correcting that? Because that's a huge part of creating that better relationship with ourselves. [0:16:03] ES: Well, first, you have to want to. It's shocking how many people really relate to – well, I have to be critical of myself, because I'm so X, Y, Z. It's like, “Says who?” Right? So, I think one way that can shock you into paying attention to this is when I was postpartum with my second child, my first child was three, and he heard me saying something out loud, like, “I just can't do this.” Regarding parenting. Someone was screaming. I was like, “I just can't – I'm not good at this.” I said something like that. And then a few days later, when he messed up at something, I heard him say the same words. Sometimes you need a shock like that, like, “Oh, really? Are you going to pass this on? You're going to pass the self-loathing onto your child? Really? Is that what you want for your child?” Sometimes something like that. Because it most definitely has been passed on in our families, in our societies, in our culture. If you're a woman, even more so. What does it do? It disempowers you. It takes away your sovereignty, and you have to decide, “Wait a second, do I don't want this for me, let alone for my child? Or do I want to live the life that I want?” There's that. But that’s like, “Well, how do you do it?” I want to break this down in the most practical way possible. Is that throughout the day, just tuning in, and instead of asking, “Am I good enough?” Which so many people ask themselves. Am I good enough to be a spouse? Am I good enough to be doing the work I'm doing or whatever it is, right? Asking what's good for me right now? What do I need right now? Tuning in a couple times a day, especially when you're feeling stressed, or you're feeling tension. Just what do I need right now? I can tell you that right before this podcast. This morning, I had some different, like, other PR stuff that I'm doing to the book and I tuned in, after lunch, I tuned in like, wow, it's been a lot today. I have an inbox overflowing with people emailing me, again, because I haven't responded to their email and I should be doing that, but I didn't. I went on that couch and I meditated. That’s what I needed to do. What do I need right now? That allows me to then show up for you, Paula, but also, for me to show up for me, in a way that I have taken care of my nervous system. So, sometimes just training yourself to ask that. Sometimes you might need a nap. Sometimes you might need, if you don't have any time, you just have five minutes. But what are you doing in those five minutes? Are you doing scrolling? Or you can take five minutes to go outside and just breathe some fresh air, or pet your dog, or whatever it is. Just a few minutes. In those few minutes are you doing something nourishing for yourself and keeping it really practical? Are you getting enough sleep at night? Are you eating enough? Are you eating quality? Little things like that. But I often think like when you have a child, you're constantly aware, “Oh, wow, they haven't had any water in like four hours if you're aware.” Constantly, like, “Oh, my gosh. If they don't eat soon, they're going to have a meltdown. But we don't do that for ourselves. So, it's a little bit like training that, training that awareness inward. [0:19:03] PF: How do, especially women, get past the idea that self-care is selfish? Because even though we know it's not, we can tell each other it's not – there are still a lot of times that little bit of guilt like, “Man, I shouldn't be taking this time for myself when I still have laundry to do. I have this to do. I've got places I need to be.” So, how does someone get past that and recognize the importance of that self-care both physically and emotionally? I [0:19:30] ES: I mean, this is such a – I mean, scientifically speaking, I can definitely share with you that when you take care of yourself, you show up with more emotional intelligence. So, you're able to enact more successfully with others. You show up with a – so you're going to have better relationships, whether it's at work or at home. You're going to make better decisions. You're going to think more clearly. You're going to remember things better. You're going to be more efficient in what you're doing because you're going to be more present with what you're doing. So, in a sense, if you want to be successful, you doing self-care is going to help you. But it's also going to help others because we all know what it feels like to be around someone who's stressed and burned out. It makes us feel stressed and burned out. Someone who's stressed and burned out is also more likely to fly off the handle, and to be even hurtful ways. Oftentimes, our inability to take care of ourselves makes us hurt the people we love the most and want to hurt the least. So, it's not selfish. It's absolutely essential. If you want to – just for the people around you, if not for yourself. [0:20:37] PF: Yes. So, it's really an investment in not just yourself, but in your working relationships, in your personal relationships. It's improving that for everybody. [0:20:47] ES: Absolutely. Then, when you go to sleep at night, you don't regret something you did or said, right? When you have greater self-care, you're going to be more mindful. You're going to be more thoughtful. You're going to be more perceptive. You're actually going to see more things. Our research shows that when you're stressed, you’re tunnel-visioned. When you’re taking care of yourself and are in the sort of calmer space, you're able to perceive more things, which is when you think about it, whether you're a parent or leader, or whatever you're doing. Being able to perceive more things and think from a broader perspective, is going to make you a lot more successful at what you're doing. [0:21:23] PF: Yes. When you invest in that strong personal relationship with yourself, how have you seen it change people? You've done so much research on this. When they really do make a personal relationship their priority, what does that do for them? [0:21:37] ES: What happens is that they become more successful in everything that they're doing. In their relationships, in their marriage, in their –why is it that marriages are so strained when there's little kids, right? It's because both parents have a hard time doing the self-care. Really, the relationship could be just fine, if everyone had time to sleep, to eat, and a few minutes to just be by themselves, right? That applies for the rest of our lives. So many people might not have little kids, and yet, are straining themselves by overworking, not sleeping enough, not taking care of their mind or body, their sleep, et cetera. Then, they're suffering, and so are the people around them. [0:22:17] PF: So, if someone reads this, and they start making this change, and they make it not just for themselves, they pass that on with their family, and then their friends start making that change. How does this start reshaping the way that we move through the world? Because as you've mentioned, we're inundated with too much information, too much stress, too much negativity. How can we change that? [0:22:39] ES: Well, I think that once people start making more sovereign choices with regard to themselves, and how they live, it can change society, and it can change families and society, and help us to navigate this world in a way that we actually live the life we want to live in accordance with who we really are, and most importantly, we can live in a way that fully expresses the gifts that we have. [0:23:04] PF: That's fantastic. [0:23:05] ES: Yes. I mean, I'm just thinking now of a story that someone shared about his son, who has been so addicted to screens since he was about five years old. But he's now 18, and unable to really focus on anything and sits in his car, and drains his car battery, because he's scrolling through his phone for hours. When you think about that, and that boy who has undoubtedly his own very unique gifts, and how he has been completely bound up by what the technology has done to him. Now, other things may be going on there as well. But we all have our own beautiful, sovereign potential, and are we going to choose to live it? Are we going to choose to model it for others and for our children? That's for us to do and the potential is huge to make this world a better place. [0:23:50] PF: Yes. I think what's so wonderful with your book is it kind of gives us the path to get there, and the hope that we can get there, and through ways that might be more simple than we thought. Not easy, necessarily, but simple. Two of the things that you talked about that I really want you to touch on before I let you go is like elevation and forgiveness. So, can you tell us about what each of those means and why they're so important? [0:24:17] ES: Yes. Whenever you see someone helping another person, it can be very moving to see that, whether you're out in the street, seeing someone helping another person, it's very inspiring and moving. That's a state we call elevation. Psychologists call elevation. What's really interesting about that is that when you see someone helping someone else, you are then more likely to go and help someone else. What the research shows is that whenever one person acts with compassion or engages in acts of kindness, it actually ripples out to three degrees of separation away from them. So, when they do an act of kindness and the onlookers are impacted, and so are two degrees away. Let's say you do a kind act for a work colleague, and then someone else sees you. You're impacting that person's sister’s brother-in-law or whatever. That ripple effect is happening so often, especially in this world that's so chaotic and crazy right now. We think, “Oh, who am I? What difference do I make?” You don't even know the ripple effect that every micro-moment of kindness, the joke you share with the person at their cash register, the kind gesture you do for your neighbor, the kind words you share with your kid’s teacher or whatever. You don't know the ripple effect of goodness that happens. That, to me, gives a lot of hope. Because each one of us can make an enormous difference, without even knowing it, and everybody does. That's one thing. Then, with regard to forgiveness, it can sound so sappy. Yet when you look at the data, forgiveness has nothing much to do with the person you're forgiving. Everything to do with you. Because when you forgive research shows that it literally lightens your load. You literally can jump higher after you've forgiven someone. This research has been done. Just showing just how heavy a load it is to not forgive or to live in resentment. Living in resentment is kind of like punishing yourself for what someone else did. Living in anger, it's like, because you're the one reaping the health benefits, and we know for example, that anger has health impact on your heart health. So, people who tend to hold on to anger or resentment tend to have heart issues. When you're forgiving, you're not only unburdening the other person, possibly, if they know or they don't know. But your own blood pressure reduces, and you're able to move on with much better mental health and well-being. So, forgiveness is really for yourself. [0:26:41] PF: On that note too, self-forgiveness is super important. Because as you've noted, we're self-critical and we can also beat ourselves up for years about things that we did, that maybe nobody else even remembers. You're a wonderful researcher and scientists. How do you discover self-forgiveness? [0:27:01] ES: That's such a good question. Whenever I feel the guilt coming up, often it's around my children. It’s like, “I wish I did this.” I just breathe through it and I bring myself back to the present moment, and I'm like right here, right now. I can always – I'm doing my best right here right now and I did the best that I could then. I think that's one of the mantras, self-compassion mantras I used, I still use, doing the best that I can. [0:27:26] PF: That's wonderful. You have so many tools and guides within this book to help people understand and achieve that personal sovereignty. I'm really excited to see what happens as it reaches the world. You also have some wonderful bonus tools that you're offering people, and so we're going to give links to all of that on our landing page. But what is it, you've poured yourself into this book, you've poured your work into this book, what is it that you hope people take away from it? [0:27:54] ES: I hope people take away that they have a choice as to how they want to live, how they want to manage their minds and their relationships, and that they have the option to live a very fulfilled, happy life in which they can live in the fullest expression of themselves, that they have that for permission. Because sometimes I think we've forgotten that we can do that. If people remember that they have their own gifts to fully express and that they can and have permission to do that, it's going to make their life more fulfilled, but they're also going to become a gift for everyone who meets them. [0:28:29] PF: I love that. If you're not doing it for yourself, do it for those around you, right? [0:28:32] ES: Mm-hmm. [0:28:33] PF: Well, Emma, such a pleasure to talk to you, really excited to see this book come out, as I said, and we're going to tell our listeners where they can find it, where they can order it, how they can get those free bonuses. Thank you again. Thank you again for sitting down with me. [0:28:47] ES: Thank you, Paula. Lots of pleasure. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:28:53] PF: That was Dr. Emma Seppälä, talking about how sovereignty can help us improve our relationships with ourselves and those around us. If you'd like to learn more about Emma or her new book, Sovereign: Reclaim Your Freedom, Energy, and Power in a Time of Distraction, Uncertainty, and Chaos, or follow her on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Live Happy Now, and if you aren't already receiving us every week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think. That is all we have time for today. We’ll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Living Better Longer With Caroline Paul [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 462 of Live Happy Now. We all have one thing in common, and that is that we are not getting any younger. But today's guest gives us a whole new way to approach the years ahead of us. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and today, I'm talking with New York Times bestselling author, Caroline Paul. Her new book, Tough Broad: From Boogie Boarding to Wing Walking―How Outdoor Adventure Improves Our Lives as We Age, turns some common myths about aging completely upside down. Combining stories of women who are embracing outdoor adventure in their later years with cultural and scientific research, Caroline gives us a roadmap for improving and enjoying the journey. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:46] PF: Caroline, thank you so much for joining us on Live Happy Now. [0:00:50] CP: I'm really happy to join you, Paula. It's going to be great. [0:00:53] PF: You have written an amazing book. First of all, the title describes you, tough broad. So, that had my attention immediately. But this book is so engaging and it's so inspiring, and in many ways, a call for us to up our game as we get older. So, I wanted to find out how this book came about, and really, who you are writing this for? [0:01:15] CP: Honestly, I was kind of writing for myself. I was 55 and looking around on my surfboard and seeing no women my age surfing. I'm not a really good surfer. So, I knew there was a lot of women who could be out there, but they just weren't out there. The same when I was on my electric skateboard. I saw no women my age, certainly no women older. And when I was flying my experimental planes, the same. But I saw men my age and men older. So, I started to think, “Well, I'm seeing 60 blank on the horizon. What is my future look like?” I decided to go and ask women who – because I wanted to keep outdoor adventure in my life, but maybe I wasn't supposed to. I kind of thought I was, but I wanted to go ask women who were there already. This is about those women. It's actually about fulfilling aging and those women explained it to me. [0:02:03] PF: Was it hard to find the people? Because you cover a lot of different types of activity and we'll get into that. But was it difficult to track these women down? [0:02:12] CP: It kind of was. I mean, first of all, women tend not to trumpet themselves on social media and stuff. So, you don't find them that way as much. Frankly, it felt like there weren't a lot of women out there doing these things. It turns out that they are out there. But what I did was I told everybody that I was working on this book and so people gave me names, and that started to snowball. Then, I did hire a researcher who found a lot of people. [0:02:38] PF: Okay. That makes sense, because one thing that we really work on here at Live Happy Now is to make sure that we back everything with science. And your book, the stories are so rich, but every one of them is backed by the science of what it's doing for us. How did that all – how did you marry all that? Did the story come first, and then you did research on what it was doing? Or how did those two components come together? [0:03:03] CP: Honestly, I was going to throw myself sort of like the paraglider that I was, off a cliff, and with an inflated, shoot and float around and talk to these women, and see how the book would come about. But I knew I didn't want it to be – it's not a book about profiles about women. This is a book about fulfilling aging in the outdoors. How the outdoors optimizes that. So, in a weird way, the pandemic was good for me, because it hit just as I was about to go interview people so nobody could talk to me. I had to sit down and do a lot of research about fulfilling aging. And I started to see what we needed to keep in our lives, and I was thinking about how outdoor adventure married perfectly with that. I went out and interviewed people doing specific adventures. I went and did the adventures with them. I usually had a specific idea of where that adventure would fit in to what I considered the five pillars of healthy aging. Usually, it came out completely surprised by something new. I was constantly schooled in this book, because again, it was a quest. [0:04:05] PF: Yes. Can we talk about those five pillars? [0:04:08] CP: Yes. The first four are pretty obvious. It’s we need, and we need as human beings, but they tend to fall away as we age. So, we have to be specifically cognizant that we need community. We need purpose. We need health. We need novelty. Those four things are really important as we age and they are harder to find. The last one, the one that intrigued me the most, the one that I actually started off with was we need a positive mindset about our own aging. The reason I say that is because I was interested in the messaging that we get as older women, because I had a feeling that was why these women weren't out there in the water with me are in the air with me. Because the messaging about women aging is really toxic and subliminal and insidious and we tend to believe it and the people around us believe it. It's basically that our future is one of declining cognitive health, frail bones, and increasing irrelevance. I mean, frankly, we're boring. You'll hear – I mean, I hear this from a lot of my peers who were disheartened about their own aging. We feel invisible. We feel invisible to the culture. So, I was interested in that messaging. Then, I found research that made it even more important to pay attention to because the research says that the way we look at our own aging predicts how well we age. That means negative view of aging, you actually have a significantly higher chance of a cardiac event earlier, cognitive decline earlier, and the opposite is true. If you look at your aging as a time of vitality and exploration, then you are going to be healthier, happier, and statistically, you live seven years longer. That seemed really important, and kind of mind-blowing. But the scientists had told us this, but they didn't say how to get that positive mindset. Of course, when something, how are we going to do that in the face of such difficult and disheartening messaging, and I had a feeling that the key was an outdoor adventure. [0:06:17] PF: It was, as we discover in your book. And I want to go back to what you were just talking about, and the research about how you aging affects how you age. Because it even changes your brain. Weren't you saying that in the book, it talks about the brain of a person who had negative perceptions is actually different after death than someone who had positive perceptions about aging. [0:06:39] CP: Yes, they had all those tangles and the neural ill health that signifies memory loss. I mean, they have actually shown that conversely, if you have a positive view on aging, you have a much higher chance of not turning on that AOPE4 gene that makes you more predisposed to Alzheimer's. That's pretty big. But we think it's inevitable when we see both our parents or our grandparents have Alzheimer's. We have that gene, but it's actually not. [0:07:10] PF: That is so interesting, because we just talked about the World Happiness Report last week, which came out, and one of the chapters was about well-being and dementia. It backs up everything that you talk about in your book where they had done all this research, and people who had a positive view of aging were less likely to develop dementia. At the same time, people with dementia who had a positive attitude, fared better with that dementia. It was really interesting to me to receive this report at the same time I'm reading your book because it was just like this companion research piece. I love how you bring in the adventurer. I wanted to know as I read this, it seems like you were probably always adventurous, and what about women who haven't been adventurous throughout their lives? How can they turn into someone who is a little bit more adventurous and try some of these things? [0:08:05] CP: Yes. After I did my research, I was clear that the outdoors is really good for us. So, just getting outside is super important. Because as the science shows, it's medicinal. From the tree chemicals that are emitted, to bird song, to even the architecture of like horizon lines that are soft and rounded, and the fractal nature of the outdoors is all really good for our well-being. On a biological level, it improves our immune system. It also makes it so our brain processes less noise, which makes it healthier and able to deal with what we really want to deal with. So, people who took walks outside, for instance, tested better on cognitive and memory tests afterwards. Your brain wasn't doing the busy work when it has to filter out noise, and just all this information that urban environments in the indoors, computers and stuff give you. So, I wanted them to get outside. I knew that adventure wasn't for everybody, at least my definition of adventure, which is fairly was fairly high octane. So, I wanted to talk to all different kinds of people who got outside. Among them, for instance, was I went birdwatching. Birdwatching, no one would think of as an adventurer, including me. In fact, I was kind of like, “Yes, I'm doing a book about outdoor adventure.” Then, in my head, I was like, “You're not an adventure but I'm going to include you because I wanted everybody out there.” But it turns out, and all the bird watchers already know this, that bird watching is an adventure. Because there was the quest of trying to see the bird. There was the exhilaration when you saw it. There was the physical vitality because we actually walked and I was with Virginia Rose who's actually in a wheelchair, and so she wheeled six miles. There was a physical vitality of an adventure. Basically, birdwatching had all the rhythms of an adventure and I had to – during the quest of that, was my book. One of the things that happened to me is I had to change, I'd expand my view of adventure and realize it's not about the actual action. It's about how you feel during it. So, if you're accessing your exploratory side, feeling exhilaration, pushing maybe a comfort zone, feeling physical, vital. That's an adventure. That was exciting to me. [0:10:21] PF: One thing that you talk about, and I love this, because we've talked about it on the show, is the importance of awe, and how changing that can be to even just take a walk and experience awe. Can you kind of talk about that a little bit? [0:10:35] CP: Yes. Well, it turns out another great reason why the outdoors is so healthy for us is that it's a surefire trigger for awe. Because all is that feeling that you get in the presence of something bigger. It's something that religion has used mostly, and we associated with religion. But in fact, we feel it when we look at the big sky. We look at the Grand Canyon. Of course, I felt it on some of my adventures. But it turns out, you don't have to go. I mean, it is in the presence of something bigger that you feel, but you can also access awe. You can cultivate awe. They did studies on this here in San Francisco, where the researchers asked people between the ages of 60 and 80 to go on walks, and simply look at things with childlike wonder, with fresh childlike eyes, I think is a quote. They were basically getting their participants to access awe. Then, they had a control group that just walked like we all walk, which is we ruminate and look at our phones. And they found after eight weeks that the people who were doing the awe walks had measurably different inflammatory markers. It went way down. Inflammation is a big sign of ill health. They reported feeling weightless, anxious, and depressed. And this was kind of crazy, they felt more compassion and gratitude, which makes sense, because awe is about seeing yourself in a larger picture. So, it made sense that they feel gratitude and compassion because you feel interconnected. The other thing is, is that we live in a world of anti-awe devices, especially inside. Our phone, our computer, it's all narrowing our focus, and making us seem like we have a lot of power and control. That's the opposite of awe. It's not that good for us. It gives us an inflated sense of ourselves and that's not healthy. So, awe is good for us. Getting outside is a really easy way to access awe. [0:12:25] PF: Yes, it is simple, and it's like, if you get out every day and you do it, it will absolutely change the way that you see the world. As you bring up so many times throughout the book, your mindset makes such a difference in how you age. So, as you look at how you're changing your mindset, what role does awe in developing positivity? [0:12:49] CP: Well, I mean, I think that, just because it does – one of the things they call awe is a reset button for the brain. What it does is that it changes your neural patterns. It kind of shakes them up. It kind of opens them up. You become more open to new ideas. They found more creative. And all that is really important for, well, anything in your life, but certainly for your just exploratory spirit, and your sense that there's more to do, more to access, just that openness. So, yes, awe is indispensable for our emotional well-being. [0:13:25] PF: You talked about how good it is to be out in nature. But in the book, you really drill down into the combination of nature and movement. [0:13:33] CP: Yes. Specifically, I was interested in ironically, not movement, but the brain. I wanted to know how a novelty was good for us, because I knew that one of the big things we worry about as we age is our memory. We need to keep challenging our brain. There is a sense that our brain is hardening, that we can't learn new things, and that it's probably withering away too. Well, it turns out, that's not true. The brain is highly plastic. It is laying down new neural pathways, growing new brain cells, well into older age. I don't even know if it ever stops. Even if you slow down some of the neural pathways for some reason, the brain then decides – they'll figure out how to lay different routes. It's almost like taking a different exit on the highway. I mean, the brain is amazing. So, you can continue to learn and you continue to explore. One of the things I did was I was interested in memory, because we're afraid of losing that. It turns out navigation and memory are in the same parts of our brain. So, I wanted to find someone who navigated in their outdoor sport. I found it orienteer. I went orienteering, which is basically when you race from a start line to a finish line, but you stop on checkpoints on the way that are on your map. Using your map, she called it running with a map and compass but she really call it running and thinking. [Inaudible 0:14:56]. What I found was that researched showed that if you actually are physically moving, you are more creative in your brain. Because our brain is not like a computer. A lot of great thinkers like Einstein would go on walks, and they would come up with great ideas during or after, because there is a way that they have shown that if you use your kinetic self, when you are thinking of an idea, you have a greater chance of solving it. So, an all waves movement, which is obviously important, physically is also good neurally. Also, then you feel better about yourself. [0:15:37] PF: I love that. We've become a society that's just sitting down and stuck in front of a screen and not trying to go outside and get creativity that way. We're trying to find it within. To change that – [0:15:50] CP: We’re on the Internet. [0:15:52] PF: Yes. I'll just Google that. I'll get my OpenAI and write that for me. But it is, like to be able to change that thinking, what have you seen it do either for yourself or someone else to start adopting that approach of saying, “I'm going to get up and move because I'm stuck on this problem.” [0:16:12] CP: Well, let me just say, I'll back up just a tiny bit and just say that. Back to that messaging about how we view ourselves, we have all these sort of subtle ideas about our own limitations as older women, especially because of the messaging that we get, and that's what's stopping us from going outside a lot. Because again, the messaging is about how frail and kind of incompetent we are, and boring, like I said. It's just a sense that our life is narrowing down. But what I found with the women I interviewed, especially the ones that had never gone outside before, that when they did – so, for instance, I went boogie boarding with a bunch of women in San Diego, and they were between the ages of 60 and in their 90s playing in the water. I talked to someone named Lorraine Voight. At 60, she saw these women when she was walking on the beach during the pandemic, and she thought, “Oh, they're having fun.” But she had no outdoor experience. She didn't even like the water. But it was that inflection point. It's the pandemic and she had had really tough 50s with deaths and just a lot of like reversals in her life. It was kind of a what the heck moment, probably, and she got in the water with them, and she was hooked. But not only did she love boogie boarding, she said to me, “Caroline, boogie boarding changed my life.” Now, boogie boarding is a very simple activity. That's something that kids do. I mean, you really are just – you’re just on a little floatation and just let the wave push you to shore. How could it change your life? I asked her, “How could it change your life?” She said, “Basically, look at the big cold Pacific Ocean. Look at the tumbling that happens. Look at the fun I'm having.” Basically, what she was telling me, she had up ended her own expectations of herself by simply taking those steps into the water. Because of that, it opened up all these other things about what she could do. [0:18:02] PF: I love that you bring up fun, because as adults, we tend to forget how important that is. Adventure is fun. It can be terrifying. But also, it's fun, and we need to be able to bring fun into our lives. [0:18:19] CP: Well, I looked into play, which is an actual science. I mean, people look into the benefits of play, and it's incredibly important. I mean, it's what we do to get to know ourselves better, and the people around us and community. I mean, that's what we did as kids. That's what dogs do in the dog park. You're right. It's actually a trust exercise. It's actually, obviously, you're getting physical vitality, but then there's lots of connection because there's a dance to it. Yes, play is important, and it's especially something that we lose not just as adults, but as women, because we're sort of expected to be such a certain way and trod such a particular path. Really, women are really watched a lot during their life in certain ways and judged. So, play is something that is scary for us because it's an abandon that – I say the word unruly in the book, and I think that's really apt. Unruly is an unusual way to describe women. We don't want to be described that way usually. But play is really good for us and it lets loose this sense of judgment. You don't care what other think and you're simply connecting with somebody else. [0:19:28] PF: So, as women are listening to this, and they're saying, “Oh, my God. I want to be her. I want to do that.” But there's something that holds us back. It's like, “Oh, my husband, my spouse, my kids, whatever. What will the neighbors think?” Kind of thing. How do we break out of that kind of thinking of like, “Yes, that's great. I wish I could, but I can't.” [0:19:51] CP: I've heard this a lot from people and it is hard to break out of our comfort zone. Especially, as women, we're not really taught to. I think men are often given training for very young age to kind of burst out and try new things and explore on your own and do it on your own. We are not. I did a lot of research on this for my book for girls. We are basically taught to be fearful about a lot of things at a very young age, which means we don't have that exploratory spirit, and we don't trust ourselves. Here's what I say, I say, I'm just trying to convince you how good it is for you to go outside and have an activity outside, and experience those aspects of adventure, like I said. So, if you believe me on that, you take pharmaceuticals, for whatever ails you, because you think it's going to make you feel better. There are always side effects. In fact, there's a very long list of side effects that are really unpleasant. They look like vomiting, diarrhea, don't drive ahead a vehicle. I could go on. I mean, you see them on the TV. If going outside your comfort zone or feeling a little fear, feels like something insurmountable, I urge you to think of it as just a little side effect of this incredibly health-giving pill that you're going to take. It is not only health-giving, but it's just going to open up your life in ways that I want you to tell me after you do it. Because again, as a rebuke to all the messaging you get, you find out things about yourself in the smoke without even trying. It's not like you're sitting down at a test and being like, “Now, I have to figure out about myself.” No, you're just going outside to birdwatch. That's what I just say. It's a side effect. I want you to take a small step. Do not fly a gyrocopter like I did for the book. [0:21:31] PF: But that was a great story. [0:21:33] CP: Do not BASE jump like somebody else I interviewed. Do not scuba dive like Louise Wholey who's 80. Don't do that. Take a walk with a friend. Do not learn to swim, maybe, like [inaudible 0:21:44] did. But go to the ocean and play in the side of the waves. Just push your comfort zone a tiny bit and I think it'll start to somersault as you find that – first of all, let me add one more thing, which is that every woman told me who was older than me that the 60s was their favorite decade. [0:22:02] PF: I love that. [0:22:04] CP: I know. It was unbelievable, because we're not told that. We're told that our best years are behind us. I remember my supposed best years and they were angst-filled and insecure. Now, I feel great. I enjoy everything, because I have that capacity to do it. So, we cannot let this slip by, by giving in to things like a little fear, like a little discomfort about our comfort zone. Because it's such an opportunity. It will be the best decade of your life or if you're past 60, the 70s, the 80s. [0:22:34] PF: I had an aunt who died at, she was either 96 or 97. I can't remember which. She had told me when I was younger, I was a lot like her. I tended to speak whatever was on my mind. She explained me like, “Yes, you will get in trouble. As a child, they're going to say you're insolent. As a young adult, they're going to say you're immature. As a middle-aged person, they're going to be like, we're not really sure about her.” She goes, “Once you hit 60, you can say anything you want, then now, you're the quirky fun person.” I was like, “Oh, man, so she really had me like looking forward to this.” [0:23:09] CP: We’re underestimated, and sometimes it's good to be underestimated and so – [0:23:13] PF: Exactly. [0:23:15] CP: You're invisible. Go do what you want. [0:23:17] PF: See if anyone finds out. You interviewed so many different women. You tell such great stories. One way I look at this book is as kind of like a catalogue of adventures that you could try. Like, “Oh, I never even thought about that.” I wondered if there was any single person or adventure that affected you most? [0:23:41] CP: All these women were amazing to me. I mean, I looked at women who were of different races, because I know that it's really hard for people of color to feel welcome outside. Of course, different abilities and different knowledge. Everybody amazed me. I feel like that since I mean really honestly, the chapter that was the most moving to me, of course, was writing about my own mother, who turns out was my subliminal messaging that made me blossom because I saw the way she opened up as she aged. That chapter was, of course, really important for me to write and difficult, and perhaps the most moving. [0:24:19] PF: Yes. Did you have any surprise learnings when you set out to write a book – [0:24:23] CP: Every single time. No, I came in with a swagger like, “This is an adventure.” Then, realized, when I went on a walk with a 93-year-old, just a mere walk was eye-opening and exhilarating because of the way she did it. She looked at everything. She quoted poetry while we did it. She looked at the sky, she looked at the birds. I mean, basically we went on an awe walk. I hadn't yet discovered awe, because awe discovered in this book. I did not understand that concept at all until I found it myself. But I had gone on an awe walk with dot. So, I guess I was just continually surprised. [0:25:04] PF: And as you look back on the experience of writing it, what was your biggest learning, would you say? [0:25:10] CP: Well, that, a small thing like an outdoor adventure will cover all the pillars of healthy aging. People say, but I can go to a book club, or I go to the gym, and all that is great. You got to do that too. But I'm just saying, it's to have the whole enchilada, basically, of community, purpose, novelty, vitality, and keep surprising and up ending expectations. Keep that positive mindset about your own aging. It's really an outdoor activity that will do it for you. Here's my final thing is that, with the climate chaos, we need to get out because it's disappearing. We only save what we love, as somebody said, someone very smart. So, if we begin to see just how vital the outdoors is, maybe we can save it before it's too late. [0:25:56] PF: I love that. I love that. Caroline, you have written a fantastic book. We are going to tell our listeners where they can find it. I strongly encourage them to pick it up during your 50s or up, or if you know someone, it is truly one of those books that gives so much inspiration, and even excitement about moving into the next 30 years. First of all, thank you for writing it, and then thank you for coming on the show and talking about it. [0:26:19] CP: Such an honor. Thank you, Paula. Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:26:25] PF: That was Caroline Paul, talking about how outdoor adventure improves our lives as we age. If you'd like to learn more about Caroline, follow her on social media, or buy a copy of her book, Tough Broad. Just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every Tuesday, we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.   [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: How Happiness is Changing in the U.S. With Dr. Lara Aknin [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 461 of Live Happy Now. Last week, the annual World Happiness Report was released. This week's guest is helping break down what it all means. I'm your host Paula Felps. Today, I'm talking with Dr. Lara Aknin, a distinguished professor of psychology at Simon Fraser University and one of the editors of the World Happiness Report. She's here to tell us why the US fell out of the top 20 happiest countries for the first time since the report has been published, which age group is thriving in the US, and talk about why our young people are struggling right now. She also shares some really encouraging findings about well-being and dementia, as well as how benevolence is changing worldwide. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:49] PF: Lara, thank you for joining me today on Live Happy Now. [00:00:53] LA: Thank you for having me. [00:00:54] PF: Every year, this is such a big time for us because the World Happiness Report comes out. We dig into it, and we try to cover it the best that we can. So I appreciate you sitting down and talking about it. How long have you been involved in working with the report? [00:01:08] LA: I have been involved for about five years now, back in 2019 I believe it was. My memory since COVID is a little fuzzy, but I believe it was 2019. My colleagues and I contributed a chapter to the World Happiness Report on some of the research we do regarding kindness and happiness. Then shortly after that, I was invited to join the editorial team. [00:01:28] PF: Nice, nice. Such an important report and we learn new things every year. For those who don't know, the report has certain themes it covers every year. Then it'll kind of branch out and do other subtopics every year. One thing they talked about this year was age and happiness. I wanted to know if you had any insight into why they decided to look at that topic. [00:01:53] LA: There are lots of reasons. One major one is that there's this burst of new research looking at some really interesting ideas and questions. So you'll see one of the chapters in this year's report written by Dr. Emily Willroth and her colleagues, I think, presents some of this really groundbreaking research, trying to understand not necessarily actually the predictors of happiness across the lifespan but the consequences of happiness for really important outcomes like dementia. Their chapters kind of split broadly into two parts, but one of the parts that I find so intriguing and then so excited about is how happiness or life satisfaction and well-being might be a protective factor against dementia. As a huge subset of the population is aging, all of us eventually, hopefully will. There's no known cure for dementia. This seems like one very important meaningful way in which we can intercept and perhaps improve the lives for many people. The new research is one key reason that it was – we chose to focus on this year's report on aging and happiness. But the other is the availability of data. One of the main sources, one of the incredible sources of information we draw upon for the World Happiness Report is the Gallup World Pole, which for those listeners who don't know is probably the most representative sample of planet Earth. So it's not just convenient samples drawn from wealthy nations, but it's individuals from rich and poor countries. They go out of their way to reach those who we might not be able to reach otherwise. Now, there are almost two decades worth, I believe, of data that allow us to look back and see these not only trends in happiness over time but allows us to try to tease apart some of the cohort effects from age effects, which is really exciting and promising for getting a closer look into what's going on in happiness across the lifespan. [00:03:38] PF: They touched on so many different things. As an editor, I wondered if there was anything that stood out to you about age and happiness on a global sense, as you were working on the project. [00:03:49] LA: Yes. There are a couple notable findings, and the report is so rich with so much information. I encourage your listeners to go have a look. There's so much to be seen. But two things that jump out at me that I think are kind of remarkable across the data sets and the information presented is, first and foremost, that around the world looking at global data, the happiness is highest among the young, so those under 30. Then begins to drop and remains relatively consistent over the rest of one's life. Now, that's looking at global data, which is really interesting. But get a little bit more interesting and sometimes unfortunate when you drill down into specific world regions. One that I think might be of particular interest to perhaps many listeners is that in North America, particularly in Canada and the United States, the young have started rating their life satisfaction quite a bit lower. In fact, it is one of the only world regions in the world where the young are less happy than the old. That is kind of an interesting point of complexity and intrigue and, for many, I imagine some concern. That is one fascinating finding. [00:04:54] PF: I was completely astonished to see that because in our case of people under the age of 30 in the US ranked 62nd. To put that in perspective, Russia is 68th. Young people in Russia are not that much more unhappy than young people in the US. Do we know what is driving that? [00:05:16] LA: That is a really important question. It’s a complex answer, as you might imagine. But, yes, if I can just pause and highlight what I think is so noteworthy here, which is that, yes, within the United States, older individuals, so those 16 above, are rating their lives much better. I believe there's over a 50 ranking gap between older adults in the United States compared to those under 30. There's something pretty unique going on here with the younger individuals. Why is this going on is a difficult thing to kind of parse, right? These data sets, the complexity and the size of them give us a huge snapshot of what is going on. But the challenge of that is that there are so many moving pieces. It's hard to pinpoint one exact explanatory feature. That being said, some of the authors of chapter two in the report, Dr. John Helliwell and Haifang Huang have done some deep dives to try to understand what's going on. There's a little bit of traction in understanding. In particular, what these two and their co-authors have found is that adults under 30, so Americans under 30, are reporting some interesting differences to compare to those who were 30 several decades ago, so those who were 30 in the early 2000s and up to 2010. In particular, those under 30 these days are reporting less support from their friends and family than did earlier cohorts. They're also reporting less freedom to make life choices, more stress and anxiety, but not more anger, less confidence in the government, greater perceptions of corruption. Another important one is feeling less satisfied with their living situation. I think although incomes are not necessarily especially low, I think they're stagnating relative to the cost of living. So that might be a point of frustration or stress and anxiety for some younger Americans under 30. It seems to be this cocktail of predictors that are associated with lower levels of well-being among those under 30 and different from those that were reported about a decade and a bit ago. [00:07:23] PF: At the same time, those young people are – the report shows that those young people are more benevolent. They're more altruistic, which is so interesting that they would be dissatisfied because one thing we talk about quite a bit on Live Happy Now is how – and you would know this about practicing kindness and acts of altruism. Those increase our satisfaction. That, to me, was just a striking disparity that we have this generation that's more giving, more altruistic, but they're also more dissatisfied. [00:07:56] LA: Exactly. That was going to be my other notable thing. It's always a silver lining for me. Or a really fascinating spotlight in the report is this increase, this upshoot in benevolence, especially since COVID, since pre-COVID years. You're right. Across all three metrics of benevolence that are captured in the Gallup World Poll data, which is helping a stranger, donating to charity, and volunteering. Each of these are relatively high across the board. They're higher post-COVID than they were before COVID. There don't seem to be whopping generational differences in this. If anything, we're seeing the young being equally, in most cases, benevolent across the board. They're more likely to help a stranger and less likely to donate. That might be partially because they just have lower levels of income. But you're right. Benevolence doesn't seem to be the explanatory factor. One might wonder if this is even buffering or supporting their well-being that these differences reported might be even more extreme if these weren't the actions people were taking. I just want to point out, though, that those benevolence ratings are global, and the findings that we're talking about here are within the United States. So I don't know exactly the benevolence levels within the United States, but that would be an interesting question to drill down upon. [00:09:07] PF: The report does an excellent job of parsing out this information, but what it doesn't do and intentionally is say, “Here's the cure.” We get a lot of information, and I think that's what a lot of us want to know is like, wow, if our young people are that unhappy, what is it that we can do about it? As you mentioned, there are several factors driving this, so it's not this small ship that we can just turn on a dime. As people who are not in our 30s and younger, what do we do? How do we start helping support young people and changing the way that they feel? [00:09:45] LA: That's a really important question. Like you say, I don't know if there's a perfect solitary answer to this. I think there's a lot to be considered in part because some of these may be societal changes, right? Concerns, for instance, about less freedom to make life choices and concerns about corruption and less trust in government would be hard for any caring friend or family member to interject upon and maybe change things. It's possible perhaps that there might be other pathways that are a little bit more tractable, so for instance, the support from friends and family. Interestingly, I believe some of the data suggest that these individuals are not necessarily receiving less contact, if you will, from friends and family but perhaps feel like they're not receiving enough. Or at least they're less satisfied with the support from friends and family. One perhaps avenue or strategy for support might be to have some very open conversations with the younger adults in your life and kind of see how they're doing. Perhaps find ways to offer additional support. There might be other factors. I mean, it's hard to support someone's satisfaction with their living conditions. I mean, that's not an easy way to just step in and change. Some of these may be more systematic or societal-level concerns. I’m not saying that this is out of our reach, but I think there's a lot of conversation to be had about which ways to kind of step in and support adults under 30. [00:11:09] PF: Do you think knowing this that now we are going to do that, now that we are aware of this situation is becoming more dire? Do you think there's a community starting with a scientific community that shares this information? Then are we going to start saying, okay, we need to enact some change, some real change in the world to make this better? [00:11:28] LA: I remain overoptimistic. I think one of the main thrusts and the rationales for the World Happiness Report is to present some of this leading evidence on the science of happiness to the public and also to policymakers and individuals who are concerned about the well-being of their constituents and their community members and their neighbors. The hope is that by bringing some hard science to this question to delineate and demonstrate the trends over time and shine a spotlight on those who perhaps are not thriving or doing as well as we would have hoped can direct attention to those areas. There's always a lot of discussion. There are many governments that are trying to pay attention to these well-being reports. I know many governments are starting to ask these questions regarding life satisfaction and well-being in their census data. I think that's a step in the right direction. But as you'll see in chapter I believe it's three of this year's report, which is focused on the youth, there is actually not as much data as we would like to grapple with some strong insights, especially in developing nations. A lot of the evidence is lacking, and so that raises some questions about how people who perhaps are really struggling are not even being assessed and observed. I think that we're certainly making strides, but I think we're far from perfect data and perfect insights on how to address this. [00:12:41] PF: I think that's one thing the World Happiness Report does is every year, we talk about it. Then it's in the spotlight. It's in the news. Then it kind of, uh, slips out. That’s why I love the fact that it comes out every year. It doesn't let us forget that, hey, we still have – this is an important thing. Happiness is an important indicator, and we need to be studying it, looking at it, and figuring out what's going on in our world. [00:13:05] LA: I think it's important because happiness isn't just the absence of negative emotions. It's more than that. I think there's – as chapter four in this year's report nicely illustrates, these protective factors matter a lot. It's not just this wishy-washy vague sense of well-being that we can hope for, but that it matters for some of these really consequential outcomes, even beyond the fact that we care about our own and our neighbor’s well-being. It predicts some really mean meaningful hard outcomes. I think it helps, like you say, shine a spotlight on some of these important pressing issues. [00:13:37] PF: We've talked about the not-so-great news with the young people but great news with the boomers. US is number 10 among the age group, the baby boomer age group for happiness. That's incredibly good news. That means we're doing great in terms of people, what is that, from 1964? [00:13:55] LA: Yes. I think it – yes. I think you're right. I think you're right. I think it's 1964. Yes. [00:14:01] PF: Why? Why? [00:14:03] LA: I think we know less about that. I mean, part of it is I think although objectively boomers have, I think, less in the way of social contact, I think that there is a greater satisfaction with it. That is one memory I have from reading this report multiple times. But I don't think we have never done a drill down among the older boomers in the United States or even the boomer generation just globally to figure out what is exactly the unique predictors there. What we do know is that countries that rank highly among the older boomer generation tend to be those that are ranked more highly overall but to be in the top 20 and certainly among the top 10 and 15. I think the United States is an interesting case where the happiness of the young, those under 30, is really [inaudible 00:14:48] the average ranking of the United States because these adults under 30 are reporting significantly lower levels of life satisfaction. Yes, for the first time in a number of years, the United States has dropped out of top 20. I think the boomers are what's elevating the ranking, but the young are what is dropping it down. [00:15:06] PF: That's interesting. When I first started covering this, we were at number 13. Then it was 50. It’s like – [00:15:13] LA: I mean, we don't have any measurement of this but some. It might have to do with political tensions or divisions in growing levels of income inequality but also well-being inequality that is mentioned a bit in chapter two of the report. But it is also, I think, those societal, political level factors in the United States might be contributing perhaps especially. Who knows? This remains to be tested. Perhaps might be shifting the well-being of the young or influencing the well-being of the young perhaps more so. [00:15:43] PF: Well, does what drives happiness in older populations differ from what drives happiness in younger age groups? Is that part of it at all? [00:15:52] LA: It certainly could be. I don't think chapter two includes any analyses that would answer that question specifically. I mean, many of the – because it's a global report with so much data, usually the focus is on looking for commonalities, not differences across the world but also across the ages. But I don't think there was any analysis that looked at whether, for instance, social relationships was a greater predictor of well-being amongst the old versus the young. That's a really intriguing question. There are some interesting psychological theories that might bring to bear on this question. I'm happy to mention them, but I don't know if it – they weren't tested directly in the report. So you can let me know if that's a – [00:16:31] PF: Yes, go ahead. I'd love to hear it. [00:16:33] LA: Sure. Laura Carstensen has this really fascinating theory arguing that when we're young, time seems expansive. Normally, people prioritize these kind of efforts to go out to search for unique new experiences. People prioritize having usually a diverse set of friends, a diverse set of experiences because it's all about learning and trying new things. It's like this very exploratory mindset. Then as people get older and people start to realize that time is not infinite, instead of taking this purely exploratory approach as they navigate the world, they prioritize things that are particularly meaningful and valuable and positive to them. How this matters, for instance, for predictors of happiness but also for relationships might be instead of trying to maintain dozens of different friend groups, people might prioritize these three, four individuals, these three or four networks in their lives that tend to bring them the most joy and meaning and whatever it is they prioritize. This theory suggests that the predictors of happiness may vary slightly as a function of age. Generally speaking, most people derive a lot of joy from helping others, from being with others. But who exactly are those others may differ, right? When you're 18 and starting college, that might be trying everything there is. When you're 75, that might be your closest friends. Social relationships might matter across the lifespan, but who are those contributing individuals might vary. [00:17:59] PF: That makes so much sense. To me, it was so interesting that this report really focuses a lot on age because when we look at how aging is portrayed like, “Oh, you're going to be lonely. You're going to be falling apart,” there are so many messages that's negative about aging. When you look at this report, it's really an inspirational read. It shows you that that's not what is going on. Has that actually changed, or has it just been always portrayed incorrectly? [00:18:32] LA: It's important to note it might be inspirational for folks living in North America and Australia, New Zealand, where this trend is happiness generally speaking across the lifespan is on an upward trajectory. But there certainly are world regions where the reverse is true. For instance, in Central and Eastern Europe, I believe that it's a downward trend across the lifespan. There are some notable differences across the globe. Different cultures hold aging in different regards, right? In many Eastern cultures, it's an honor. There's a lot of honor and respect for the elders, whereas that isn't necessarily true across all different nationalities and ethnicities and religious affiliations. So perhaps in North America it's kind of seen like as you get older, you're out of touch. You're falling apart. It might be a lot of negative portrayals. But I don't think that's always the case worldwide. But I agree with you. I think certainly from a North American perspective, especially Canada and the United States, the older adults are reporting their lives as much more aligned with their ideal than are the young. That is perhaps inspirational for many people who are in that generation. [00:19:39] PF: Yes, because we're all headed in that direction. We want to know it's getting better, right? [00:19:44] LA: Hopefully, it's all getting better. Yes, for sure. [00:19:47] PF: Well, there's so much in this report. What is it that you would think that is a takeaway that you hope that everybody would get from sitting down and spending some time with this report? [00:19:59] LA: Well, I think broadly speaking, I think the report does what I think and perhaps I'm very biased here, but I think it does a really great job of showcasing what I think is some of the best science on the question of happiness around the globe and some of the most cutting-edge interesting findings. Details aside for a second, I think the report, hopefully, is a nice demonstration, is a convincing demonstration of where the science of well-being is at and convinces many people that this is not a floofy self-help grounded literature but rather a hard science where people are able to self-report how they feel about their lives and how scientists can try to understand what are these correlates, and how does it track over time, and how does it differ across age and region. Many important variables that help us give some traction on perhaps how to improve the lives of others. I hope, big picture, people walk away with an understanding that this is a hard science and one that we can really sink our teeth into and try to improve the lives of many people with. I think two highlights for me in this report are, one, the benevolence finding that we talked about already. I realized that there are some mixed pictures. There’s a lot of nuance in this report. Looking across the world is always difficult with hundreds of thousands of individuals offering their take on their lives. There's so much data to dig into. Normally, just looking around the globe is complex and nuanced enough. But now to split it by age group and cohort or generation is even more nuanced. But I think the benevolence finding is one of the clearest cut across the globe, which is that there's been this increase in benevolence that it's pretty consistent across the generations. I think while many things can sometimes look a mess in this world and in people's well-being, this is one very rosy optimistic picture showing that people are in perhaps better – higher than we would assume, looking out for one another and helping their neighbors, helping their communities. The other finding that I think is really important and worth showcasing is the findings from chapter four, which is on the dementia findings I mentioned earlier, which is just how all of us are, hopefully, getting older. Unfortunately, dementia is one thing that raises significant challenges for many people who are facing these cognitive impairments. But also for their friends and their family who are trying to help these individuals be well and enjoy their lives, even with this very difficult diagnosis. I think there are some really interesting and important information to bring to bear in this year's report about how well-being and life satisfaction can be a really important protective factor for that. I just think it raises the stakes for some of the – thinking about some of this research. It's not just about feeling good, which I think is motivation enough in itself to care about our own and other’s well-being. But I think it really raises concerns about what it is we want in our communities and our societies and how we take care of each other. [00:22:48] PF: I agree 100%. This was so interesting. Lara, I appreciate you sitting down and talking with me. You really distilled a lot of great information for it. We're going to tell our listeners how they can find the report, how they can digest it. We're going to run some things on our website about it. But thank you for making sense of it for us and taking this time with me today. [00:23:07] LA: My pleasure. Thank you for the invitation. [00:23:12] PF: That was Dr. Lara Aknin, talking about findings from the World Happiness Report. If you'd like to download a full copy of the report, read additional stories about the findings, or learn more about Lara, just visit us at livehappy.com. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Live Happy Now. If you aren't already receiving us every week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Healing Paws With Heather Stohr   [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:07] PF: Welcome to Happiness Unleashed with your host, Brittany Derrenbacher, presented by Live Happy. Plenty of research shows that pets can help us heal, and now even hospitals are warming up to the idea. I'm Paula Felps, and this week I'm joining Brittany as she sits down with Heather Stohr, a certified child life specialist at Norton Children's in Louisville, Kentucky. Heather manages the facility dog program at Norton Healthcare, which allows animals to play a very important role in the healing process for patients, families, and their caregivers. Join us as we learn how they are changing lives one hospital bed at a time. [EPISODE] [0:00:45] BD: Tell us what a facility dog program is? [0:00:49] HS: Sure, yeah. Our facility dog program launched in 2017. We have 12 full-time working dogs, and our dogs are trained to help really just support our patients, and our families, and our staff as well in the hospital setting. They just provide that amazing love and laughter like humans cannot, so they asked our leadership team about doing something like that, and they were sure like, “Sure. This sounds great.” So, I did some research and talked to some other hospitals that had programs in place. Yeah, so about a year later, we were up and running. [0:01:30] BD: You're in Louisville, Kentucky. Tell everyone what the name of the program is, because it's so cute. [0:01:35] HS: Yes. Our program is Heel, Dog, Heal. So, H-E-E-L, Dog, H-E-A-L. Yes, our marketing team did a great job of coming up with a name for our program, and I love it very much. [0:01:48] BD: Who are the patients? Who are the patients that the facility dogs are visiting? [0:01:53] HS: What's really unique about our program is we have full-time facility dogs that work in our pediatric areas. Then also dogs that work in our adult areas. I really love that about our program. You'll find that many children's hospitals have facility dog programs, but Norton Healthcare decided that we needed them for children and adults, which I totally agree with. They, in pediatrics, they are on our med surge unit. They are in our pediatric intensive care unit, in our cardiac intensive care unit. We have a facility dog that works on our oncology unit, and then in the outpatient oncology space as well. Then in the adult areas, they just round on the different units, and physicians and nursing staff can put in consults for our dogs if there's a specific need for a patient or a family and have a facility dog visit. [0:02:45] PF: I would love to hear what a facility dog does, like what's a day in their life, and how do they respond to the patients? I would just love to hear what they do. [0:02:55] HS: Yeah. It looks different in the different settings, obviously. For a lot of our patients, it's about getting them up and moving after surgery, so it's much more fun to walk a dog around the unit instead of walking on a walker or having the physical therapist help you. That's true with our adult patients as well, and really in pediatrics, we're focusing on that, but we help our adults too, because they're nervous about getting up. They might have sutures, or they're scared that it's going to be painful and hurt. They do a lot. We do a lot of co-treating with physical therapy, as well as occupational therapy, so it might be something like they need to get some movement in their arms so they can pet the facility dog, they can throw a ball, and the dog will go get the ball and bring it back. It's getting them up. The emulation part of it is a big deal. For our younger patients, a lot of them don't want to take their medication, or taking medicine is hard or it tastes yucky. Our facility dogs can take medicine from a syringe or a medicine cup, so we model that with our patients using pretend medicine. It's just water, but we show them, and nine times out of ten, they're willing to try it if the dog can do it, and kind of the same with when we need them to get their hospital down on, to go back to the OR. We can dress the dogs up in hospital gowns, it makes it just a little bit less scary, a little more normalizing. [0:04:19] BD: How do you see the healing process shift, like emotionally, especially for kids, once dogs enter the room? It's truly amazing. It's almost immediate. When we walk in the room, if I'm by myself, as supposed to when I have my facility dog, when the dog is there, it's almost an immediate, either calming reaction or excitement. The other day, Juno and I were in the Pediatric Intensive Care Unit, and she was on the bed with a patient, and then the doctor walked in and said, “Wow, I haven't seen you smile this much, and the inflection in your voice just exudes happiness.” She's like, “Well, dah, I mean, there's a dog in my bed.” They just have this amazing way of connecting with people that I myself as a human do not. I don't know if it's, there's no judgment there, they don't ask for anything. It's pretty amazing that I get to be a part of that every day, all day long. Pretty cool. [0:05:20] PF: I think that is such an amazing way to approach healing, because we know the emotions that you get from being with animals, and how much that releases. How do you train these dogs? What does it take for a dog to become a facility dog? Because I look at mine and I know Brittany will agree, because she knows my dog. There's no way a hospital would ever let them in. [0:05:44] HS: Yeah. Our dogs are trained through a wonderful local organization called Paws with Purpose. They breed and train their dogs for facility dog and assistance dog work. Not all the dogs make the cut, but they start training them when they're very young at like eight weeks old. The training process is about two years. As the dog gets a little bit older and further along in the training process, they are deciding like, do we think that this one would be better as an assistance dog or service dog, or can this one handle more people touching them and working in a facility where that's a little bit different than being task trained. It's really interesting. They train them out at the women's prison. The Kentucky Correctional Institution for Women. They have inmate handlers there that train the dogs, and they are amazing. They do the bulk of the training for these pups, but on the weekends, each pup in training has a weekend handler that picks them up. The job of the weekend handler is to help socialize them, take them to the mall, take them to the grocery store, and just get them out and about and exposed to things that they wouldn't see in the prison setting. [0:06:51] BD: Right. that's healing for those women too. [0:06:53] HS: Absolutely. When I got my dog, I was able to meet with her handler at the prison. Our dogs actually continue to go back there. They do their baths and check-ins. So, the handlers there get to hear stories about the great work that their dogs are doing out in the community, like I said, they really do the bulk of the training and are amazing. The things that they teach these dogs, not only just basic cues, but also like really fun and creative tricks, I guess you would call it. It's a really neat program. [0:07:27] PF: When you tell us that, it amazes me, because this one dog, look at how many lives this one dog changes from the time it's a puppy. I mean, it's changing the woman in prison who is training it. It's the weekend handler. It's making an impact. It changes your life to have this dog in your presence and every patient. I think that is a phenomenal touch that just one dog has throughout its lifespan. [0:07:53] HS: So true. It's so true. I had the pleasure of being a puppy trainer for Paws with Purpose, and a pup that I had actually got placed at Norton Children's Autism Center. I do still get to see him, but he was with me for several years. It was tough when I knew it was placement time for him, but also this just feeling of joy and excitement that the amount of people and children that he and his new handler are helping, and it's been amazing. I'm lucky enough that I get to see it. [0:08:25] BD: My work used to be in adoptions. I would work with so many different families to have dogs be adopted. The question always that I would get from people interested and being a foster home is like, how do you give the animal up? How do you let that animal go to someone else? How was that for you, like your first experience with that? [0:08:48] HS: It was mixed feelings for sure, because this dog, I had him a little bit longer, because I had him through COVID, the pandemic. Things stopped for a while, so the dogs through the pandemic had a little bit longer period of training time. I got to keep him a little bit longer and have him more regularly at my home, but when it was time, like I said, I had some mixed feelings. There was some definitely happy tears, and then really, I was excited that he was going to stay in our program. So, he's part of the Heel, Dog Heal Program, and I get to see him when we all get together. That is really great. He and his new mom, his new handler are doing such amazing work. It just, it brings me so much joy. It really fills the heart. [0:09:34] BD: Speaking of joy, can you tell the listeners about who is with you today? [0:09:39] HS: Yes. I have my eight-year-old golden retriever, Juno. She is a white, fluffy ball of fur, smiles everywhere she goes. Well, typically she's holding a stuffed animal in her mouth. She loves to carry her stuffies, especially if it's a lamb chop. So, we get to walk through the hospital halls and put smiles on people's faces that don't even pet or touch her. It's pretty amazing if you walk through the hospital with me to see how people react when they see her. [0:10:10] BD: Her Instagram handle is @juno_bringsjoy? [0:10:13] HS: That's right. Yes, yes. That she does. She brings so much joy to my life and my family, but also just the people that we get to interact with and serve every day at the hospital. We're here at the hospital, when people are here, it's a scary time for them. Maybe they don't know what's going on. Maybe they're waiting for a new diagnosis, but maybe their family members are in a lot of pain or the doctors are trying to figure out what's wrong. We get to be a little bit of light in that day and try to make their day just a little bit better. Yeah, that's why we get to have the facility dogs in the hospital. They reduce that stress and anxiety of being in this hospital setting. There's been research that shows it reduces blood pressure and heart rate. All those things, that's when I was asking my leadership team if I could look more into it. Those were some of the things that I came back with of the evidence base and how it could help our patients and families. Really, the focus was on our patients when we first started the program, but when the pandemic hit, the dogs had to go home. We just didn't know what that was going to look like. So, they were out of work for about six weeks. Then I got a phone call saying they could come back, but the focus was, they could only see staff. What we learned through that, not that the dogs didn't really see the staff before with the focus only being on staff when we were able to come back in 2020, was really we found, happier employees made for happier patients. If that makes sense. That trickles down. So, we've continued that and rounding on our staff, going to staff meetings. If we get an ask, if they've had a rough day on a particular unit, and we try our best to make rounds there just to check in and say hello. [0:11:57] PF: They are such well-rounded workers. I mean, they do so much for everybody that they come in contact with. I wondered, I'm glad you brought up the way that you were able to find the research and bring it up to your team, because it used to be they wouldn't have dreamed of letting an animal near a hospital. Is there any pushback still on things like that or do people realize the benefits, there's not a risk, but there are benefits? What's the – [0:12:23] HS: Yeah. I would say in the beginning, there was definitely some pushback. I don't even know if I call it pushback, but it was more about we wanted to make sure that we were going to keep our patients safe from an infection prevention standpoint. So, had no hospital acquired infections that have been traced back to any of our dogs. The program has been going since 2017, so I'm happy to say that. We put some parameters in place, people use hand hygiene before and after petting our dogs. If the dog is going to get up in the bed with a patient, we put a flat barrier sheet down and then the dog gets on the on the sheet. Then when the dog gets off, we take the sheet off of the bed. Our dogs are, well Juno gets a bath every week. Most of them go. It's about every seven to 10 days. Then we groom them every day when they come in from being outside, we're wiping their paws. They are in amazing shape, that is for sure. Both inside and out. What they eat, they are on a very strict diet. We want to keep them in good shape, so they can work longer. They probably eat healthier than I do in all honesty. [0:13:28] BD: Yeah. All our dogs do. [0:13:30] HS: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. [0:13:33] BD: Yeah. Heather, you're a certified child life specialist. I feel like you can uniquely answer this question. This month is International Day of Happiness. Also, the month of March on the Jewish calendar is the month of joy. How do the dogs in your program bring happiness and joy to children? [0:13:53] HS: Yeah. That's a great question. I think what it comes down to is just their unconditional love, like I said before, there's no judgment. There's the kind of like, that trust and safety and it's normal. It's a normalizing experience. Many children and families have pets at home. When they're in the hospital, they're missing their pet. It gives them that sense of love and connection when they're in the hospital. It's also really amazing when we have children that aren't being open or wanting to talk about what is going on, or happening, or how they're feeling, whether that's they're having pain, but they don't want to disclose that or something traumatic has happened. Truly amazing. Just to walk in as you start petting that dog, they just start talking. We're not asking questions, but they just have this sense of just, like this is a safe environment. The dogs also do a great job of just giving our patients and families an alternate focus. When you talk to our patients, most of them will say there's been a reduction in pain or anxiety after seeing the facility dog. Our dogs are requested for certain things, because they have helped a certain patient in the past. So, we try to make that happen as well. They also, can be really goofy in times and make you laugh. Sometimes in the hospital, it's hard to laugh, right? Because you're so worried and your hurting, nervous about something, they have a great way of making us laugh, writing that humor. [0:15:26] BD: Yeah. That's a lot of duality, right? Because you have a lot of heavy, tough, serious, painful things going on. Then you have these dogs that just come in and they will just ground you in the present moment with their joy and goofiness. I mean, they don't care. They're just going to be them. [0:15:45] HS: They don't. My work is a child life specialist. We work with families that are grieving or in a bereavement situation. So, we do utilize our dogs for those types of situations and really to see my dog work the room and go to the people that need her most is pretty amazing as well. We had worked with a particular family who, Juno and I had seen this woman for about six or seven weeks and she passed away. The family asked that we come up to the room. Juno went to the very people that needed her. I just let her off leash. It was really an amazing experience for me just to see her. She just knew what to do. I didn't give her a cue. I didn't ask her to go see a certain person or anything. I'll never forget. There's many experiences like that, but this one just really sticks out, because we had visited the family for many weeks and gotten to know them pretty closely. [0:16:46] BD: Dogs are so intuitive. I mean, animals in general are so intuitive, but that's beautiful. [0:16:51] HS: For sure. [0:16:52] PF: How do you know what to do? Because the dog is trained. How is a handler trained? What kind of program do they go through? [0:16:59] HS: Yeah. Our handlers work with Paws with Purpose, will teach us everything we need to know about being a handler, so we do about 30 hours of book work with them. Then we start some hands-on training with different dogs. You don't get to pick the dog that is going to be your dog. They have a matching system. They do a great job of looking at the work that the dog's going to be doing, and then what setting the dog will be in. But also, it's your home. What is it like at your home? Do you have a very active home? Do you have young children? Do you have older children? So, you're working with different dogs, just learning the mechanics. Our handlers make it look really easy, but there's a certain foot you step off with when you're getting ready to go and telling the animal let's go. If you step off with the other foot, they won't go. It's like learning all of those things. Paw with Purpose does a great job. They also come into our hospital to help the handler once they're matched with their dog. Then we do follow ups. There's weekly trainings on the weekends that we go to. Then they do a 30, 60, 90 day check in, and then yearly after that to make sure that we're keeping up with the dog skills. We're practicing and making sure they're in tip top shape. [0:18:11] BD: I have a different kind of question, because Paula and I have these smooshy face, brachycephalic breeds that, it's so hard to train. Just very unique, right? We love them. Is there a certain breed that is better equipped and easier to train and maybe a little bit more malleable to enter into these scenarios? [0:18:34] PF: Boston Terriers need not apply. [0:18:39] HS: Well, that's a great question. I think when you look at facility dog programs across the US, most of what you'll find are golden retrievers and Labrador Retrievers or a cross of the two, maybe. I do know some programs have like doodle mix, doodle crosses with a lab or a golden, but yeah, they're mainly, ours are all Labrador's golden retrievers or crosses of the two. Yeah. [0:19:01] PF: I'm pretty interested to know what made you want to do this? How did you get involved? Because if whether it started as a passing interest, it's now become central to you. How did you find out about it, what made you interested in it? How did it all evolve for you? [0:19:18] HS: Well, my entire life, I've had dogs and just throughout things personally in my own life have truly experienced the healing power of the animal. Then I had heard about in 2016, I'd heard about a couple other hospitals that were starting programs. We have a pet therapy program where people can bring their pet dog into our hospital for about an hour a week and visit with patients, but we saw a need to have the dogs here for longer periods of time. When I heard about other children's hospitals doing this, that's when I had approached my leadership team and just to see if they'd be interested, if I could even explore it and they were totally on board and amazing. I went to a conference actually, and gathered all the info and brought that back to the team. Then I started just gathering a team of people and finding champions within our hospital that felt the same way or felt that it would be beneficial for our patients and families. That's just how we started. [0:20:20] BD: What have the dogs that you've worked with and in your career taught you about life, and living, and healing, and community, and love? [0:20:32] HS: Wow, that's a great question. I think I would say for that one is just to, I guess, live life to the fullest, be present in the moment, and don't be afraid to be a little bit silly or funny at times. I love the goofiness of our dogs and really just to, I guess, share the love and connection that we have as humans. Dogs can do that so easily. I think sometimes as humans, we step back and don't want to say things, but the dogs have such a great way of doing that. So, I think it's important to learn from them. Yeah. [0:21:08] BD: There's a big event coming up in October. Tell us – the facility dog summit. [0:21:13] HS: Yes. I am so excited. Our hospital was chosen to host the next facility dog summit. It will be October 14th and 15th at the Muhammad Ali Center here in Louisville, Kentucky. Facility dog handlers throughout the United States will come and we will talk all things facility dog. We're currently working on our schedule now. People are submitting abstracts. Some of that will involve research that has been done over the past couple of years. We'll talk about all kinds of different things. I guess sometimes maybe the struggles of being a handler and what that looks like. Interventions that handlers are doing with their dogs in the hospital setting. Just sharing knowledge and with everybody throughout the facility dog community. [0:21:57] BD: We always like to end the show sharing a story of an animal that is doing meaningful, memorable, magical work in the community. Is there an animal that you work with or have worked within the past that stands out to you? [0:22:12] HS: I manage the program at the hospital. I get to hear all the amazing stories of impact. I'm always asking for those from my handlers. I don't know if I could pick just one, honestly, because they each have done some truly amazing work and they do it day in and day out. It's hard to pick one. I don't know. I feel a little selfish if I pick my own dog, right? [0:22:40] BD: [Inaudible 0:22:40]. It’s allowed. [0:22:41] HS: Yeah, exactly. I obviously think she does amazing work, but I know it's happening throughout the hospital walls here at Norton Healthcare. We're very blessed to have this program. [0:22:55] BD: Well, Heather, thank you so much. This program and what you're doing and all the animals in the community, it's a gift. It's really beautiful, meaningful work that you all are doing. Thank you so much for coming on the show, and for sharing Juno, and the program, and the kids. Thank you. [0:23:11] HS: You are welcome. [OUTRO] [0:23:13] PF: That was Brittany Derrenbacher, talking with Heather Stohr. If you'd like to learn more about the facility dog program about Paws with Purpose or follow Juno, the therapy dog on social media, just visit our website @livehappy.com. Of course, Brittany will be back here next month to talk more about how pets bring us joy, help us heal and can be some of our greatest teachers. Until then, for everyone at Live Happy, this is Paula Felps reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]