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Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Mental Health Awareness with the Live Happy Crew  [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Welcome to Episode 363 of Live Happy Now. May is Mental Health Awareness Month. Here at Live Happy, we realize that happiness and good mental health go hand in hand. So we've brought the whole crew together to talk about it. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and throughout the month of May, we're going to focus on tools for better mental health. But to kick it off, our team sat down for a conversation about how the past couple of years have affected each of us and some of the ways that we've coped. Joining me for this special episode, our Live Happy CEO and Co-Founder Deborah Heisz, E-commerce Marketing Manager, Casey Johnson, Web Editor, Chris Libby, Senior Marketing Manager, Britney Chan, and Senior Marketing Specialist, Shane Lee. I hope you enjoy this candid conversation, and be sure to stay tuned until the end of this podcast when we'll tell you about a special deal in a Live Happy store exclusively for listeners. [EPISODE] [00:01:01] PF: You guys, thank you everyone for coming and joining us for this special episode of Live Happy Now. [00:01:08] BC: Thank you for having us. [00:01:10] PF: It's always fun to talk with everybody, the whole gang. We don't get to get together in person, but sometimes we can Zoom it. I know you guys see each other a lot more than I get to see you. But this was a really special talk that we wanted to have because Deb felt really strongly about Mental Health Awareness Month and us doing something on it. So that's how I'd love to start. Deb, why was it so important for you to make sure that we covered this because we're doing – Our entire month is dedicated to mental health awareness. [00:01:38] DH: Well, I mean, obviously, mental health ties into happiness. I mean, if you're not healthy, either physically or mentally, it's really going to impede and impact your happiness. As you know, for us, happiness isn't really about the emotion happiness. It's about, living a positive life, having a positive assessment of how you're doing in life. Really, it is different than the podcast name. Live Happy doesn't just mean, “Hey, let's go out and  have ice cream and ride roller coasters and  run free through fields of green and meadows.” It's not really what we're about. We really are about that positive emotion part of positive well-being. It really is – Happiness is a high perceived sense of wellbeing. What we know is the pandemic has impacted people's perception of their well-being in significant ways. In fact, Jason Dorsey, who does a lot of research on the difference between generations – I forget what the name of this company is, but he’s a phenomenal speaker. He does just a great job of identifying how boomers are different from Gen Xers and Xers are different from millennials. The millennials are different from Generation Z, but they did some research projects on Generation Z that shows that that group that is at most 25.6, 27, and at least 10, 11, or 12, that group has more mental health issues than any other group, any other generation has. A lot of it has to do with what they've missed out because of the pandemic. They've missed graduation. They've missed prom. They've missed going to college. They've missed being in class with their peers. They've missed all of those social things that we depend on. We talked so much on this podcast about how relationships are essential to your mental health and to your happiness. All of that got taken away from a lot of people over the last two years. So I think it's really important that we spend a little time talking about it at Live Happy and on the podcast. [00:03:32] PF: Yeah, for children too below. Let’s think younger than those teenagers and young adults. I had read something about how the level of anxiety in children and also the fact that they've been wearing masks. They didn't get a lot of that interaction. We gain so much interaction from our smiles and our emotions that we convey in our face, and those have been hidden. So there was something I just read yesterday that was talking about the need for that for us to really address it with our children and start looking for the good in the world because the last two years have been really traumatizing for them. [00:04:06] DH: Well, I mean, there's a lot of social anxiety. I mean, I read an article. There's a lot of social anxiety in the under-five set. Typically, my three children, it was always play dates, getting together with kids, going to daycare, whatever you could do to get them entertained. But, no, kidding. But a lot of it was also learning how to socialize with other children and other adults, and a lot of kids just haven't even been exposed to that. I mean, they've truly been with their own families on a daily basis. Or even you get into first, second, and third grade. Can you imagine going into kindergarten on Zoom and having that be your first experience? Or not getting to graduate? The other extent of that, not getting to graduate or start college in person. I mean, there's so much social development that goes on, and it's really impacted mental health from Generation Z. I'm sure Jason hasn't studied the generation after that, whatever they're going to be called. But I'm positive it's had just as much impact there, and that's not even talking about those of us who are used to getting our socialization from our workplace or getting our away time by going to the movies or going out to eat at restaurants. Just how much it's substantially changed who we are and how we live. Even though many of us, particularly in Texas, were back to relative normal, but the relative normal is key. But that still doesn't mean those two years didn't impact our mental health in ways that we may not quite know or know yet. It certainly impacted the health of our children. One of the interesting facts that Jason was saying was Generation Xers – I’m a Gen X. I'm old, yeah. Our big social defining impact is like the challenger explosion, right? Millennials, for the most part, it's 9/11. Those things are ancient history to Gen Z. Their definition, their defining point of their childhood, bring them together as a generation, is COVID. [00:05:58] PF: Wow. Yeah. To your point, we're still dealing with the fallout from it. It’s not completely gone, and it gets frightening for people when the media starts talking about, “Better expect another surge. We better –” They’re kind of like preparing us for that, and I hear those conversations. I hear people already being anxious for what's to come, instead of being able to just be like, “Okay, let's kind of take a breath and be in this moment.” It's like we're not being given that chance. [00:06:25] DH: The media is certainly very good at understanding that what scares us is something we'll watch or pay to read, so they invest a lot of time and energy in that. We've talked about this before, but a big part of mental health is what you allow to have mind space. What do you put in your brain? So if you're reading those negative news reports, I'm not saying we don't need to know about what's going on in Ukraine. I'm not saying we don't need to be informed about what's going on in the pandemic. But it can be overwhelming with a 24-hour news cycle, and you get 18 different emails with different headline news's. Or you click on the app on your phone, or you turn on the television, or you turn on the radio. If you allow that to be the only thing that's entering your brain, it's going to be very hard to keep a positive mental outlook on the world. [00:07:14] PF: Absolutely. That brings me to a question. I'd love to hear what everyone on the team kind of what has been their go to to manage the stress that we've all felt in the last couple of years and how you keep your mental health balanced. I guess the easiest way to do it is alphabetically because that way we're not showing favorites. So I'm going to ask Britney, Britney Chan. What was your kind of go-to solution? [00:07:37] BC: My go-to solution during the pandemic was, obviously, to just try my best to stay as connected as possible, even being at home. So I practice a lot of video chatting, FaceTiming, Zooming with my friends and family. It really almost became like a daily activity for me and something I really look forward to. I know there's always this talk about tech and digital, and it's all over the place, and it's taking over our lives. But in this instance, it really did the opposite. It made me feel more connected, and I was able to see my sister and watch my niece and nephew play. I mean, there would be times where we would just stay on the phone. We wouldn't even talk to each other. We would just be there and be able to see what's going on. So, yeah, video chatting had a really positive effect on my mood during that time. Also, Deb, you just touched on it just a second ago about choosing to put what's in your mind. Like for me, I really made a conscious decision to not overwhelm myself with information about the pandemic or just the news in general because there's not a lot of good news out there. It seems to be very negative lately. So I read enough to stay informed. I read enough to make sure I'm following protocol and doing the right things and all that stuff. But other than that, I stayed away from the information overload when it came to the news or even social media about the pandemic. I would kind of just like scroll past it. So those are the things I really did to help my mental health during that time. [00:09:20] PF: That's really smart, and it's difficult for a lot of people because we know social media is designed to be addictive. So you end up doing that zombie scroll, and it's like, “Oh, my god.” First of all, you're having a panic attack by the time that you're done. It just – You feel horrible. That's a terrific way to do it to kind of curate what you're going to let – [00:09:39] BC: Yeah. That's a good word for it. I was self-curating what I was putting into my mind. [00:09:44] PF: That's very cool. Casey, how about you? Because I feel like of anyone, you and I probably talked the most about all of this and what was going on. We talk about podcast episodes, things like that. So what were some of the things that you were doing? Because you always maintained such a great upbeat attitude throughout the whole whatever we were dealing with. [00:10:07] CJ: Well, thank you for saying that. I certainly didn't feel that way on the inside, sometimes. But, yeah, I mean, just to kind of echo Britney, I'm kind of in the same situation as she is. My sister has two kids. They're young. So I was very grateful that we were able to video chat, and I was able to see them that way. I did find myself being glued to the news and zombie scrolling, like we were talking about. So I kind of had to check myself. I would limit my screen time. I stopped checking my phone first thing in the morning. I even started sleeping with it in the other room, which helped me sleep better. I brought my screen time down, which helped with my anxiety. I even started – I found this like YouTube video. It was like a 10-minute like yoga meditation and it's really hard for me to like sit still for long periods of time. So meditation has always been kind of a challenge for me. But just starting my day off like that, me not looking at my phone. Getting in touch with like my mind and body really just helped me maintain my sanity throughout that whole thing we experienced – [00:11:03] PF: Whatever it was. We don't even know what to call it. [00:11:06] CS: Yeah. I’m like blocking out but yeah. [00:11:08] PF: Thing. That’s really good, and it worked. Because, again, you were always like you've always been very positive and able to like see the good in whatever we had going on. So that's been super cool and super fun to work with on you. I'm really interested to hear Chris and then Deb because they have a slightly different perspective because not only were they dealing with their own situation, but they're both parents. That just adds another layer of complexity. So, Chris, what about you? You've got two little girls. How were you working this in your house? [00:11:39] CL: Yes, I do. That easily takes up a lot of time to where you don't have a lot of time to really think about it. But I will say, continuing what Deb was saying earlier, that the pandemic came out, and it changed all of our social behaviors. It created – There were some unintended consequences, although we were able to still keep things moving, working at home, and stuff like that. The unintended consequence was loneliness just skyrocketed. Even if you have a family, you can still find yourself in those times of loneliness. When the kids and everybody else went back, and I was still at home, then everything got quiet. Then you're just working all day. Then that's when it really sets in. You're not talking to anybody. You're not talking to your friends as much, just because of what we've been through the past couple of years. So, of course, pets always are a great option. If you're a pet owner, that's going to reduce your stress. It takes your mind off of things. It keeps you physically active. There's a new report that came out from Penn State actually on this loneliness kind of epidemic that we're in and what you can do to combat that, even if you are at home alone. That is choosing activities that get you into a flow state. Now, we at Live Happy are familiar with what the flow state is. One of the pioneers of positive psychology, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, I think I said that right, he kind of introduced that theory. But it's basically when you're engaged in these tasks that kind of where time just kind of goes away, they're meaningful, challenging activities during your free time that it can reduce your loneliness and increase just momentary moments of happiness, but at least it's still happiness. Those are just any activity that you have a reasonably good skill, and it's not too complicated because then you'll lose interest. You just kind of submerge yourself in these activities like playing music, listening to music, even playing video games, different types of sports, writing, reading, painting. Just those kinds of leisurely activities that really take your mind out of it. I live next to a park. I'm fortunate enough to I'm able to go outside and kind of take walks in the park and kind of lose myself in that way or shoot baskets, which is a really enjoyable activity for me. Because you kind of immerse yourself and just play scenarios in your head and think that you are the greatest basketball player ever. [00:14:03] PF: Are you saying you're not? [00:14:04] CL: No, not really. Far from it. But when I'm out there, I am. So that's the good thing. Those are the kinds of things that can alleviate those feelings of loneliness and those feelings of anxiety and even depression. [00:14:18] PF: Yeah. Reframing that's really important. We have a podcast episode coming up, I believe, in June with Eric Barker. He had done some research found that loneliness – Like people who are lonely actually spent the same amount of time with other people, as people who are not lonely. But it's really your mental state. So that's really interesting. The things that you're talking about are great, like being able to employ some of those techniques, so you do feel less lonely. I think that's a great way to handle it. Deb, you were running a company remotely, a couple of companies. You also then have three active children. So how are you keeping all that balanced? Because, obviously, your kids were at home. You were at home. Everything changed for you. How did you keep that going? [00:15:05] DH: Well, first of all, I have to talk about the fact that there were some positive aspects of the pandemic for me, which sounds horrible and people – The pandemic wasn't positive. But because I couldn't travel, and I've been traveling a tremendous amount for the past, I don't know, 25 years of my life, to suddenly be in the same time zone for a long period of time, I got rest for the first time in what I think is forever. So for me, I think it's not just what changed that was difficult. It's also what changed that’s positive. I don't ever want to go back to living the way I lived before, where I was basically  in four time zones, and I'm talking about hours away time zones in a month, and it makes it a bit crazy. You don't realize what you're missing out on. It's like I'd spend time with the kids. I've always been very engaged when I'm with them. But hitting that, I feel more awake than I felt for 20 years before that. I didn't realize it. So there was a positive aspect for me. Of course, there also is that tiny aspect which changed for me. It used to be because I made specific time to be with my children, being engaged with them while they were there was something that was easy to do. Well, suddenly, they're there all the time. I'm there all the time. I have other things I need to do. Setting boundaries became an exercise. I don't want to say in futility, but it was certainly an exercise that took some time to get established. When I truly am on the phone, I truly am working. I cannot open up your Gatorade for you right now. Things that just changed. For the kids, it was far more difficult than it was for me. Initially, those first couple months, we did a lot of puzzles. We took a lot of walks. We have dogs. Our golf course never completely shut down, so we go hit a few balls. I mean, they were closed, but they let you play. It was a weird situation. So we always had things to do, but it was very different for the kids. The kids, when school started in the fall, it certainly was very frustrating for them. We had in-person school starting in the fall of 2021, so our kids have never been not allowed to go to school. But to suddenly have masks, that social distancing, and all of that stuff, it was remarkable to me how quickly they adapted. [00:17:17] PF: Can I ask you, how did you talk with your children about this too? Because you, of all people then in the positive psychology space, doing what you do, you're aware of what fear does, what mental impact this would have on them. So how did you talk with your children about what was going on to keep them from – I mean, I know kids that are just terrified. They're terrified of breathing other people's air. They've been very indoctrinated with fear. So how did you explain this to your kids? [00:17:45] DH: Well, first of all, I think it helps that we're not by nature a fearful family. We are well traveled and somewhat adventurous from whitewater rafting, to hiking off the grid. We're not – My children have a certain element of self-sufficiency and self-reliance already built in, just from who we are as people to begin with. So I think that helped. But the second thing was you can't overemphasize enough that the likelihood of something bad happening is very small, and you can't dwell on something that might happen. We did talk a little bit about driving a car. You have likelihoods of car wrecks. There's fuel. You fly in a plane. But these things don't happen commonly. So we all get sick. We've all been sick. We've all had the flu. We've all had corona virus. We've all had – It’s possible we may get this. But for the most part, we need to make sure that we're doing the hygiene things we need to do and try not to get it because nobody wants to be sick. Or if somebody does get sick, no, it's going to happen. It's okay. You have to tell people it’s okay. We don't know if it's going to be okay. But they’re kids, right? You don’t want to say, “Be careful not hug grandma. She's going to die.” I mean, don’t you think that’s too much? We have to be really careful and put things in perspective. [00:19:01] PF: I'd like to learn what Shane did when he was during – Shane is our quiet one, always. So I'm really interested to hear from him and find out what were you doing with the pandemic? [00:19:12] SL: Yeah. It was an interesting time. I will say all of the things that y'all spoke of I employed in my life. Like Deb was mentioning, just a feeling of being alone like the first year of this. I was essentially living in a one-bedroom apartment by myself. My family, they don't live in Dallas. They live at least four hours away. So really, I just had myself and just people I had I could connect with to my phone. But still, I was pretty lonely. Even though my living situation has shifted since then, it's still a lot of notes of loneliness. But it's okay because through that I've strengthened that feeling of being able to do things for myself. Chris mentioned this earlier but going through these first days. There’s a hobby I started doing, skateboarding, and I've been doing that for about a year now. It's like a big part of my identity, but there's always a new goal with that. I've learned with perseverance and patience. So that's a fun activity I love to do, and I’m excited to do it right after this call. In addition to that, I also just love just going on walks outside, just feeling the warmth to sunlight on your skin. Photosynthesis is really hype. Plants, they really get it. But I would say another thing is just I've really adopted this mindset of just living more in the present, less worrying about the past, or not anticipating the future, but really just valuing the time I spend with the people I talk with in this moment. So for example, time spent with y'all today is always time well spent. So I'm happy to just be talking with you all. On top of all of that, I try to unplug as much as possible. If I didn't have to use it for work, I probably wouldn't be on social media. But I don't feel a need to like post my life on social media because I’m a firm believer in the right people know what I'm doing. Like Casey said too, I've also employed some time limits on my social apps. So really, I don't spend that much time on social media or my phone in general. Yeah. [00:21:23] PF: That's excellent. Yeah. I think we all – [00:21:25] BC: We’re comparing our screen times last week. [00:21:29] PF: How did that go? [00:21:31] SL: I did poorly. I lost. [00:21:34] BC: I worked really hard to get my screen time down to where it is. [00:21:37] SL: Yeah. Not all weeks are winners, but at least I'm mindful of it, at least. [00:21:42] BC: Yeah. [00:21:44] PF: I think we all had such a great advantage because of what we do and where we're working because we have all these tools. Like every week, we're talking to someone who is giving us a new tool, and we have this whole background. We've all been at the company for a while, so we have this pretty good backlog of mental resources of how we can handle some of these things. Like we didn't know we were preparing for what we've had, but I think it was really helpful. One thing that I did was when the pandemic hit, I was living in an apartment downtown Nashville. I loved it, going to concerts all the time. Then it was like, “Wow, I'm stuck in a box,” and I moved out into the country, a huge difference in a lot of ways. But being in nature every day has just been absolutely life-changing. Again, that's something we really learned from Live Happy and the stories that we've written about how much it affects us. I see it. I see it with my animals. I see it with myself. So I do feel like Live Happy has been such a gift for us. I hope other people have gotten as much from it as we have because I think it really helped us have the tools to get through the pandemic more easily. It's been so great to talk to you guys. I love when we get together and do this. We'll do it again soon. One of the things that we know is really good for your mental health is laughter. So that's why I'm sure Chris Libby has a fantastic dad joke locked and loaded. [00:23:03] CJ: I’ve been waiting for this moment. [00:23:04] PF: Ready to roll. [00:23:05] BC: I know. I’m ready. [00:23:08] CL: I don’t know. Did you guys happen to hear that in honor of Mental Health Awareness Month that the United Kingdom is going to officially change their name? [00:23:17] PF: To? [00:23:17] BC: To what? [00:23:19] SL: It’s no longer going to be referred to as the UK. Now, it will be referred to as You Okay. [00:23:26] DH: All right. [00:23:27] PF: That’s why we asked you to join us. [00:23:29] BC: Round of applause. Way to go. [00:23:32] SL: Listeners, the scenario was, that was a solid joke. I just want you all to know. My eyes rolled so hard. [00:23:40] PF: Perfect. Well, thank you all. I appreciate you guys giving me your time today and sharing with our listeners everything that – Not everything you've learned but so much that you've learned and how we can get through this together. [00:23:52] DH: Thanks, Paula. It was awesome as you were. [00:23:53] BC: Thank you for having us. [00:23:55] CJ: Thank you. [00:23:55] CL: Thank you. [END OF EPISODE] [00:24:02] PF: That was the Live Happy crew, talking about mental health. If you'd like to learn more, visit our website at livehappy.com. Click on the podcast tab for some great stories and resources. While you're on our site, you can get 20% off anything and everything in the Live Happy store just by using the code SELF-LOVE 20. That's SELF-LOVE 20. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: How You and Your Kids Can Save the Planet With Dr. Dana Ellis Hunnes  [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Welcome to Episode 361 of Live Happy Now. This week, we're celebrating Earth Day. So today, we're going to ask not what our planet can do for us but what we can do for our planet. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm joined by Dana Ellis Hunnes, an assistant professor at the UCLA Fielding School of Public Health and author of Recipe for Survival: What You Can Do to Live a Healthier and More Environmentally Friendly Life. As you'll soon hear, Dana is both passionate and knowledgeable about issues such as food security, climate change, and the health of both humans and animals. She's here to talk about how we can create a healthier, happier, and more environmentally friendly life, and even get our kids involved. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:49] PF: Dana, thank you so much for coming on Live Happy Now. [00:00:52] DEH: Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. [00:00:55] PF: It’s perfect timing because we have Earth Day coming up. So we wanted to talk to you. You've written such a thoughtful and well-researched book. To kick things off, I wanted personally to find out what made you want to write this book. [00:01:10] DEH: Yeah. There were a few things that really compelled me to write this book. One of them was definitely the research I did for my dissertation in Ethiopia, learning all about climate change, food security, and the issues that people are living with in a country that really depends on the rain for their agriculture. Then the second thing that really compelled me was giving birth to my son, who was so tiny, not even six pounds at birth, and looking down at him and realizing that we only have this one planet. The planet that he's growing up in, it has some things that are endangering it. So really, I think the combination of those two things, just it was my way of dealing with all my concerns, to research and to write everything I put down in this book. [00:02:01] PF: We get insulated because – Especially if you live in a city where your food is brought to you, you we're almost like children being catered to by a very kind nanny. Everything is just brought to us. We can get everything that we need, and we tend to forget that the world doesn't operate like that. [00:02:19] DEH: Yeah. No, that's absolutely true. I mean, in many countries around the world that are not nearly as developed as ours is, people live off the land, and they really do depend on the rain for being able to grow their food if they don't have the agricultural inputs like irrigation and wells and things like that. So it really does put it into perspective. I'll tell you, we have our own little community garden plot up on campus, and it kind of does make you appreciate just what goes into growing food. [00:02:52] PF: Right. That's a little tougher than walking over to the bin and picking the most attractive one. [00:02:58] DEH: Correct, yes. [00:02:59] PF: Well, and in your book, it's really eye-opening and, frankly, a little overwhelming at times to see what we have created. I've had conversations with people who feel like we're too far around the bend. So it's like what's the point of even trying right now? What is your take on people who have that mindset? [00:03:16] DEH: I mean, I guess I would say that makes me a little sad to kind of just throw in the towel. Because I think if each and every one of us does try to do our part and make the planet a little bit safer or a little bit healthier for both ourselves and our children, I think if a lot of us take these little actions that I talked about in my book, I think really we actually can make a difference. I mean, it is an overwhelming topic. I do admit that. I will also admit, the first few chapters of my book are a little depressing when you read them. But with that said, I mean, the second half of the book really is 21 things that we can all do right now to make a difference and to not feel so hopeless. So that's what I want really people to take away is, yes, I understand. I get it. I've been there. It feels depressing. But if you do something, I tell you, you feel empowered. You feel like you're making a difference, and it can make all the difference in the world. [00:04:19] PF: Yeah. Even that process of starting to educate yourself about what's going on a little bit more, like beyond just our little pocket of the world to start learning about it, that's a huge step toward making change, isn't it? [00:04:33] DEH: It absolutely is. That’s one thing I've been very fortunate to be able to do is in my research and just in my own life, I've been able to see other places around the world and learn how are people living and what are they doing to make a difference or what are they doing that's more environmentally friendly. So I do think if we get into our own little silos and just kind of put our blinders on, that can make things definitely tougher than if we try to look at a wider perspective on things. [00:05:04] PF: So where do people start? Because I know there are people who are interested in preserving the planet. We got to take care of this. But then it's like, “I don't even know where to start.” There are so many changes they feel like they have to make. So what's your advice on those baby steps? [00:05:20] DEH: Yeah. I absolutely say if you had to just choose one thing because life is overwhelming right now, and there's a lot we all have to take care of, whether that's children or parents, if we're in that sandwich generation. If there's only one thing you can do, the most impactful thing you can do is look at your meals. Truly, there's three, sometimes four or five, depending on how many meals you eat in a day, times a day that you can have an environmental impact and also a health impact. We all want to live more healthfully, too. So, absolutely, if you only have the bandwidth to try one thing, it’s really start looking at your plate and see where we can make practical adjustments. I do talk about that as well in the book. [00:06:04] PF: Yeah. Can we dig into that a little bit more? Because a lot of times, when people are talking about changing their meals, it's for diet reasons like, “I want to lose weight,” or, “I want to be healthier.” But you say it really makes a difference in the earth if we start in our own homes, and now you're breaking it down even further like, “Start on our plate.” So what does that mean? What's that going to look like for us? [00:06:25] DEH: Right. Well, the nice thing about that, looking at your plate, is not only is it beneficial for the environment, and it absolutely can be, but it's also incredibly beneficial for our health. So the lovely thing about it is we're really packing a one-two punch. We're doing two things simultaneously, and I absolutely agree. A lot of people do look at their food on their plate as, “I want to be healthier. I want to maybe lose a few pounds.” Then the great thing about what I'm talking about, this plant-forward, plant-based diet, is that it really can reverse certain diseases like heart disease, diabetes, even obesity, and/or prevent a lot of these diseases, while at the same time being more environmentally friendly. You're not producing as many emissions. You're using less water. You're using less land. You're preserving habitat around the world. That's the beautiful thing. When I say a plant-forward or plant-based diet, what I mean is pack your plate full of vegetables, full of whole grains, full of fruits, nuts, and seeds. Then you won't even notice you're missing the standard American fare of meat or chicken or things like that. [00:07:37] PF: What is the difference environmentally with plant-based and meat? [00:07:40] DEH: Well, I'll put it into perspective this way. On one acre of land, you can grow about 10,000 times more calories of plants than you can if you were growing a cow or beef on that land. I mean, that's a humongous difference. In terms of emissions, you're saving about 90% of the emissions if you're plant-based versus if you're eating like a standard American diet full of meat and dairy products. In fact, if everyone on the planet went primarily plant-based, we would only need about one-quarter of the land that we do right now to feed everybody. So that would mean we could feed millions, billions more people on the planet. Not that I'm saying we should. I'm just saying we can. [00:08:29] PF: When we're talking about being able to use this land, how can that change our ability to feed ourselves and our communities? [00:08:36] DEH: Right. Well, I mean, if you're taking kind of like a world view, when we're talking about how are we going to feed the growing world population, because right now we're nearly eight billion people on this planet. By the end of the century, we're expected to be close to 11 billion people. If everybody on the planet eats like we do here in the United States and other Western countries, no, I don't think the land, as it stands, will sustain us because people will want to eat more meat in these other developing countries. The way we grow food today, I don't believe that is sustainable. So that's why it really is critical and so important that those of us who eat far too much meat do really pare back so that we can grow enough food to feed everybody because when you feed an animal, it's a middleman. You're feeding an animal thousands of calories, and you're only getting a few hundred calories out. So it's completely inefficient, and it wastes so many resources that could go to feeding humans. [00:09:40] PF: But it's kind of a hard sell for – I lived in Texas for many years. Before that, I grew up in Nebraska, and both of those are very fond of their beef. So it's a pretty tough sell to tell people this is the way we're going to be healthier and improve the planet. How do you kind of present that? What's your best marketing pitch, basically, for helping us give up some of this beloved beef and switching instead to more plants in our lives? [00:10:07] DEH: I mean, that's a really a great question, and I try to frame things to people as I don't want you to think about what you're giving up. I want you to think about what you're adding to your life. So for a lot of people, I know it's kind of hard to have a long-term approach to things. But if we really do cut back on our consumption of meat and dairy and add lots of fruits and vegetables and all of these whole grains and legumes that I was talking about earlier and maybe some of these plant-based meats that are out there, if we're really craving that flavor or texture, we're adding things rather than necessarily thinking about what we've taken away. For people who think I'm telling them, “You have to be vegan,” that's not what I'm saying. I'm not telling people you have to be vegan. But I am telling people, look, if we want to have a habitable, sustainable planet that will feed our children and their children, that's not a hothouse Earth that maybe we can't grow enough food. I think we all need to be more thoughtful and considerate about what we are putting on our plates. [00:11:17] PF: That’s well-said. As we become more mindful of that, what kind of changes would we see in the environment, and how is that going to start helping the Earth? [00:11:28] DEH: Right. Well, I mean, immediately, we would see that we require less water to grow feed for animals. That water instead could be used to replenish the aquifers and the water table that has been depleted. So I think, hopefully, we would see that the Earth would be a little bit moister. There'd be fewer wildfires. Of course, this would take time. It’s not like it would happen overnight, but it would be a slow progression. Same thing with the Amazon, we would see they would not need to cut down so much of the Amazon rainforest. So it could regenerate, and the water cycles could regenerate. That beautiful, lush forest that provides us with so much oxygen and water vapor and helps kind of control the climate in a way would regenerate. Because when you leave nature alone, it has this amazing capacity to kind of come back to its natural state. [00:12:28] PF: Yeah, that's interesting. I had the good fortune of being able to go to Antarctica on a ship, and one of the people on there was Dr. Steve Running, who won the Nobel Peace Prize for An Inconvenient Truth research. He talked about that. I said, “Well, talk about what's going on with our planet.” He said, “The Earth will find a way to survive. She may need to get rid of us first.” That I think was a really strong statement but a big wake up call for me. Like if we don't take care of our planet, she will find a way to survive, but we might not like what it means for us. [00:13:01] DEH: No, and I completely agree with that statement. Absolutely. I mean, the planet will survive beyond us. My biggest fear is, yes, how will we go down and how many other species will we take with us. [00:13:14] PF: Yeah, yeah. So changing mindset is so huge because we have these grassroots people that are doing it. There's people like yourselves. There's a lot of people who are working toward this, but it's not the majority. How do you get it to a tipping point where more people are saying, “All right, yeah. We want to work on this. We do want to save our planet. We want to live healthier, longer lives.”? [00:13:35] DEH: Yeah. No, I mean, that's a really great question. My argument would be I disagree that it's not the majority because if you look at some research out of Yale, two-thirds of Americans do actually believe in climate change. Maybe not two-thirds believe it's urgent, but two-thirds do believe in climate change in that it's a problem. So I think if we depend on the government to solve this for us or world organizations like we saw at COP26 in Glasgow, and we wait for these big groups to take this on, I agree. I think it's not necessarily going to happen. That's why at this grassroots level, individuals really do need to do something, in my opinion, whether it's eat more plant-based or buy clothing that's made out of natural materials like cotton or hemp or things of that nature, just because every little bit counts. Every little bit counts when you're talking about the planet and the environment. [00:14:38] PF: That's great because I think so many of us think we have to take extreme steps. We have – It needs to be extreme measures because we are in kind of hitting a dire situation. So I love the fact that you say like every little bit helps because we don't always feel like it does. [00:14:53] DEH: No, and it's true. That's another thing I do talk about a little bit in the book is I say, look, try one thing today. If you're be successful at it, which I think you will be and can be, maybe try something else tomorrow or next week, and build on what you're doing. It doesn't have to be one and done, and it doesn't have to be none and done. It can be one today, “Oh, my gosh. I saw – I was very successful of that. Let's see what I can add on tomorrow.” Yeah, baby steps can really empower you and help you realize that you are making a difference. Then educating others, which I talk about a lot as well. If people don't know, it's hard to care, and it's hard to make a difference, and it's hard to take action on something you may not really understand or be aware of. [00:15:37] PF: Yeah. So educating our children too is a huge part of this, raising them up with that mindset. How do parents start doing that? [00:15:45] DEH: I think, in our house, it's just part of the natural lexicon. We just talk about it kind of all the time. I mean, really, we get our son involved. We were up at the community garden this morning, and we were out there picking arugula from our garden, and he was down fetching water because apparently the irrigation was turned off. So we did. We had to go fetch water and take it back up to the plot. So I think if you get your children involved from an early age and don't make it feel onerous, make it into a fun family activity, it does come more naturally, and they will kind of almost autonomously and automatically become little environmentalists themselves. [00:16:31] PF: We love that. I also love that you brought up the community gardens because you talk about CSAs and community gardens and the role that they play in improving the environment. So talk about what they do because I think community gardens are just the coolest thing. I hadn't really thought about how beneficial they were. [00:16:48] DEH: Right. Well, so we belong to both. We joined a CSA, which stands for Community Supported Agriculture. So every week, we get this giant box, I kid you not, of vegetables and herbs and other greens from a local farm that's maybe 20, 30 miles away here in Los Angeles. It’s just – I mean, you'd be spending three times as much in a grocery store to buy this amount of greens. It's just beautiful. So not only are you supporting your local farmers and contributing to the local economy. You're also getting really super healthy farm fresh produce delivered right to your door without the use of plastic. Then as far as community gardens are concerned, a lot more urban areas are having them now. So you can join, and you basically are putting in what's called sweat equity, which means you work on the garden. But in return, you get to choose what goes in it. You also get to reap the rewards of what you have sown literally. You get to eat what you've grown. [00:17:53] PF: In addition to getting all this fresh food and being able to be with your neighbors, you say there's a lot of other benefits to having community gardens or growing our own food. So can you talk about what some of those benefits are? [00:18:05] DEH: I think some of those benefits are really both. Spending time in nature has proven psychological benefits on well-being. Working with others on a common goal also has really wonderful benefits for your emotions and just for connections, connecting with other people. Then, of course, being physically active while working on the garden has many health benefits, cardiovascular, fresh air. Other benefits of community gardens include just understanding and being one with nature, and understanding how food is grown, and realizing that, yes, it shows up at the grocery store. But when there are supply chain issues, that can be a major problem. So if you have the ability to grow some of your own, then that kind of gives you a little buffer. Then in areas that are food deserts or food-insecure, if you have the ability to grow some of your own produce, then that can be a little bit of an economic buffer for you. [00:19:06] PF: You can even do it indoors. Like if you're even in an apartment, you can have your tiny little inside garden. You don't have to have live on acreage to be able to have your own garden. [00:19:17] DEH: No. That's very true. In fact, we live in a condo, and we don't have land. So on our balcony, we have like three four large pots that we've grown basil in, and we've grown tomatoes, and we've grown other herbs, and we've made meals out of it. We've made our own pesto without the cheese because we don't eat cheese in our house, but it's delicious. When you get it literally that moment from your own little garden, I mean, it can make a meal. [00:19:48] PF: Yeah. I think a lot of people during the pandemic, and it has continued. I don't know if we're done with it yet or not anyway. Because we use the term post-pandemic but are we? I don't know. But people suddenly became aware in a very uncomfortable way how much we depend on the grocery store having what we need, and it didn't always happen that way. So did you see an increased interest in, say, growing your own food because of that? [00:20:16] DEH: I definitely saw an increased interest in making your own food. I know a lot of people went on the make your own sourdough bandwagon, including my own husband. Yeah. I know other people who were more interested in the community gardens because not only did it get them out into nature when, otherwise, perhaps they had to be in lockdown. But also, just I think people are kind of craving that oneness with each other or with nature. Just something they can interact with. [00:20:51] PF: The gardens certainly do both of those things. Yeah. Like you mentioned earlier, I know we're getting close on time, but you had mentioned earlier, and this really is a striking book because it is two parts. The first part is a horror story. It's like, “Here's where we're at, and here's what we've done, and here's what's going to happen if we continue down this path.” But then the second part is like, “Tada, happy.” It's very optimistic, and it gives actionable advice. What is it that gives you the most hope and optimism about the future of our planet? [00:21:26] DEH: Yeah. I think what gives me the most hope about the future of our planet is that people are more aware now than they were. I mean, it's taken time, but there is so much activism now about the environment and climate change. It’s constantly being discussed. Maybe not perhaps in the way I talk about it in the book and particularly not with some of the actions I recommend for what we can do because a lot of the talk is still about, oh, reducing your use of oil or reducing the amount of electricity you use. I mean, those are worthy causes, too. But I think what people need to realize is there are actually more impactful things that we can do, even beyond that, which does in some ways require government action, versus what we can do as individuals. So I think that's what gives me the most hope is that there is an interest for what can I do and what can I do now to make a difference. [00:22:28] PF: What is it that you hope that people most get from reading your book? [00:22:32] DEH: Right. If I had to choose what I would want people most to take away from this book is that, really, you can make a difference, and you don't need to feel despondent. You don't need to feel overwhelmed on what feels like an overwhelming topic because it really can feel overwhelming. I've been there. I know what it feels like. In a way, this is a memoir to me because it's, well, all the things that I have done to make a difference, and it's all the things that I encourage others to do to make a difference. But it's a recipe. It's step one. It’s step two. It’s step three. It’s step four. You don't have to feel alone in this. There are plenty of other people interested, wanting to do good. So I think that's what I want people to take away. [00:23:19] PF: That's terrific. Dana, I appreciate you taking time to sit down with me today, talk about this. Like I said, we're going to tell people how they can find you and how they can learn more because this is an important conversation and, obviously, one that we need to keep having for years to come. [00:23:33] DEH: Well, thank you so much. I'm grateful for your very thoughtful questions and appreciate your time as well. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:23:45] PF: That was Dana Ellis Hunnes, author of Recipe For Survival: What You Can Do to Live a Healthier and More Environmentally Friendly Life. If you'd like to learn more about her book, follow her on social media. Find out how you can get a free copy of her book. Visit our website at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day how happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Awakening Our Inner Dreamer with Sylvia  [INTRO] [00:00:02] PF: Welcome to the very first episode of On A Positive Note. I'm your host, Paula Felps. Each month, I'm sitting down with a songwriter, recording artist, or both, to talk about music that can lift our spirits and heal our hearts. To kick off this monthly podcast, I'm excited to sit down with songwriter and recording artist, Sylvia. Her mega-hit, Nobody, made her somebody in the 80s. Since then, she's always wanted to record an album that could be enjoyed both by children and adults. Now, she's done that with her new concept album, Nature Child – A Dreamer's Journey, which is earning rave reviews and has put her back on the Billboard music charts. In this episode, Sylvia talks about how this album was 30 years in the making, where the songs came from, and why she wants to awaken the dreamer in all of us. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:56] PF: Sylvia, welcome to our very first episode of On a Positive Note. I'm so excited to have you as our inaugural guest. [00:01:04] S: Oh, thank you. I'm honored to be your first guest. That's just wonderful. [00:01:09] PF: Well, the timing on this was pretty spectacular. By the time this airs, your new album will be out. It is truly delightful. It's also a big departure from your previous work. Tell us, what inspired you to create Nature Child? [00:01:24] S: This album has been in the works, in a sense, since the late 80s. [00:01:30] PF: Oh, wow. [00:01:31] S: Yes. Six of the songs on this album were written – I wrote those six with Berlin Thompson, and they were written between 1988 and 1990. The idea came to me when I was processing all those years on the road during the decade of the 80s. I looked back and I realized, what a gift it was, all these children showing up at my shows, unbidden. I mean, it was it wasn't anything anyone thought would happen, but I mean, kids brought their parents to the show. [00:02:01] PF: Oh, that is interesting, because I listened to you in the 80s and I would not have thought to bring a child. [00:02:09] S: Well, it's interesting. When Nobody hit, when that song hit in 1982, that's when I began to see a lot of children show up at the shows. I know why it sold 2 million singles, because all those little kids, they told me, when I would sign autographs after a show, they said, “I saved up my lunch money, so I could buy your record.” [00:02:28] PF: Oh, that's adorable. [00:02:30] S: They would bring it for me to sign. When I would sing the song in concert, they would have little dance moves all worked out, and it was just so precious. When I was looking back on those days, in those concerts, I realized, “Oh, my gosh. What a joy it would be to actually sing to kids messages, things I would really want to say to a child and to their parents.” When I realized later, since it's been so many years, that this music isn't just for children. It's really for all. It's for the dreamer in all of this, and that's why I subtitled the record ‘A Dreamer's Journey’, because there's no age limit for dreaming. We can dream all of our lives. I think our culture sometimes tells us to put away our dreams and get serious and get a job and make money. All those things are important, but I think we don't have to quit dreaming. [00:03:23] PF: Yeah, I would agree with that. You had some of these songs set aside. How did you then decide, okay, it's time to parade them out? Write new friends for them to play with and create that album? [00:03:36] S: I love how you put it. That's really nice. What I did in the intervening years is I had a marriage and a dog and a life that just took off in another direction. I just set that music aside, the half that had been written, and just always felt, “Well, I'll get to it. I'll get to it.” Well, in 1996, I ended up creating my own record label, Red Pony Records, and I started recording my own music and my own records. I think, I had to get a few records under my belt as a co-producer with my friend, John Mock and get down the line, writing songs, recording songs to really get ready for this record. I don't think this record could have been made in the way it sounds, in the way I write now, just the maturity of living life. It's come about at the perfect time, though I would have never guessed it, it would be that long. I think it's absolutely the perfect time for this record to be out. [00:04:36] PF: Did you immediately know, okay, here's the gaps that we need to fill, here's the journey that this record goes on? Or, what was the genesis of the overall project? [00:04:48] S: Thank you. That's a good question. I didn't really know how this record was going to go. I knew that those six songs were where we needed to start. I told my friend, John Mock, I said, “Let's work on recording these six and we'll get just in the energy of this music.” Because I think from there, out of that energy field will come other ideas and other music. That's exactly what happened. Four of the songs were written in 2020 as we were recording the project, and those four, John Mock wrote the music for them. He's a composer. He doesn't really normally think of himself as a songwriter, though his composing has a folk element to it usually, and also, a Celtic influence. He and I both have some Irish ancestry, and I think, our DNA, it just comes out in our music. [00:05:37] PF: You feel that in each other. [00:05:39] S: I think so. We just allowed the record to evolve as we went. Those six songs became the foundation pieces. Then, we allowed this music that John wrote to fit with what all we were doing. Because we were in the soup of the record, of that energy field of the record. I didn't really know where these songs were going to go. John would put them down on an iPhone recording and he would send it to me, and I would just listen to the music over and over, until words just started coming, and images started coming. I would just describe those images. It really came out of the music he composed. It was very magical. The whole process of making this record was absolutely magical. [00:06:23] PF: What's so fun with this is there are so many different musical styles and textures. Now that you've explained John's writing, that makes so much sense. As I was listening to it, I really thought about that like, “Wow, how did we end up going from an Americana song to the one with the train whistle, to something that has a very Celtic feel?” Was it then intentional that you would have all these different textures, or is it just because that's how John wrote music and it fit? [00:06:51] S: Well, he wrote the music to every time a train goes by, which is probably the most rootsy sounding thing on the record. He also wrote the music to (Hey, Hey, Hey) It's a New Day in Nature Child, the title cut. John is a composer and he's a multi-instrumentalist, so he's playing a lot of the instruments on this recording. I think, it just weaves itself together in this really magical way that I can't explain. It's like, you can play and it's like, okay, we want all these songs to feel they're threads in a part of one fabric. I think we were successful at that. I feel like, there's enough variation between them that it keeps it interesting, but there's some things that really, what I call the ethereal vocals. This is something I'd never done on a recording before, but I've always loved the music of The Carpenters, and I've loved the music of Enya and Loreena McKennitt. People like that, who have this beautiful, mystical quality to their music and to their harmonies. All of that came to bear in the recording process, because I felt as – well, John and I always do. We always start with a vocal and guitar, acoustic guitar vocal, and we build everything around that. That's how our recording process always is. As we were building it, it's like, I don’t want the music to feel this mystical, magical feeling. I thought, what if we did ‘oohs’ and ‘aahs’ that were background, an ethereal feel that will support the lyric in this way? Because I intended and wanted this music to usher people into their imaginations without pushing them in. They're just inviting them in. I think those vocals became a really key component to the sound of this record. I think, it was one of the things that helped weave the songs together. [00:08:51] PF: Yeah. I grew up with Alan Parsons Project, Pink Floyd.  love the whole concept album idea. Talk about how that's different then, as you said, just individual songs. [00:09:05] S: Well, it's different in that there is a theme. I didn't set out really for there to be a theme, except that I wanted this music to all be things I would want to say to a child, or I'd want to say to a coaching client, which am I've been working as a life and career coach for the last 20 plus years. I'm often in conversations with people about, let's talk about what your gifts are. Because often, people come to see a coach when they're stuck and there's a lot of focus on what isn't working. I like to shift it around and say, “Well, what is working and what do you feel passionate about?” It doesn't have to be something you make a lot of money at. It can be just a hobby. There's a correlation there in that inquiring about our gifts and our passions and our dreams and then in this music doing the same. [00:09:59] PF: You do have so many different elements to this. Let's talk about the album as a whole, because I've listened to it, so I have a huge advantage over everybody listening to this podcast. Talk about what this journey is that you take them on. [00:10:12] S: The journey begins by talking about this place. It invites you to go to a place called Avalon. For me, that's a metaphor. Everything in every image, everything in this music is metaphor, really, as a good story is; any fable, or story we all have lived with, everything is metaphoric. To me, Avalon is a metaphor for our imagination, and it's inviting you just beyond the golden sunset. There's this magical land. That's what I'm ushering in, in that song. Then in the next song takes you into, well, what is your imagination and why should you use your imagination? Imagination is your friend. It's assuring you that you can come on this journey and you have everything you need to take this journey. Then the train song, it's called Every Time a Train Goes By, that the message in that song basically, is about facing your fears. [00:11:09] PF: We talk about how much music can help us heal. You've done a lot of work not only as a career coach, but you were on a board of a non-profit for people with mental health issues. How does all of that, then what you've heard from people, what you've taught to people, how does that inform the lyrics that you write now? [00:11:27] PF: Well, everything affects everything. I'll tell you a little story. I worked with a voice teacher, Gerald Arthur, every week for 32 years, I think. I had Wednesday, 11:30 was my appointment with him. One day, I was in the studio singing and I just – It was one of those glorious days, where you just can't hit a bad note. Just singing my heart out. The next week I came to the studio for my lesson, and I couldn't sing anything. I just felt like, “Uh, it just isn't happening.” I was complaining to him. I said, “I was singing like a bird last week. What happened?” He said, “Well, what happened between last week and today?” I proceeded to tell him events that had happened. He said, “You know, everything that has happened between last week and this week, it's in your voice.” [00:12:22] PF: Oh, wow. [00:12:23] S: I said, “Oh, I’ve never thought of that.” He said, “Even what you had for breakfast, it's in there.” He was joking with me, but it was true. He said, “Everything is in your voice.” He said, “What do you think about just maybe singing with the voice you had today?” [00:12:41] PF: Interesting. [00:12:42] S: It made my mind stand still. It was a pivotal moment in my work with him, because I wasn't trying to sing like I sang last week anymore. I thought, “Okay, I'll just sing with the voice I have right now.” It's amazing, because when I did that, and then he said, “Okay, now sing. Sing.” I was singing like a bird again. It was like magic. It's when I embraced all that is in my voice today and sang with that voice, suddenly, it was good again. [00:13:14] PF: That’s so cool. [00:13:16] S: I think, it's a long way around answering your question, that everything's affected by everything, and it's all in there, and you just sing, or show up with the voice you have right now. [00:13:27] PF: I love that. Yeah, show up with the voice you have today. That's something we can all do. Everybody can learn from that. As you think about people listening to this album and listening as families, how do you see them using this? [00:13:42] S: A whole bunch of different ways. I hope that people will listen to this record often, because I think it puts you in a space of openness into your subconscious, into your ability to dream, into the ability to believe that something different is possible, if that's what you want to create. I think, we humans are so much more powerful, powerful than we've ever dreamed that we could be. I think it's so easy, because we're so fixated on what's happening out there and oh, isn't that horrible? What is this? What of that? We keep looking out there and we keep looking out there for it to get all better, so that we can feel better. I would suggest, that's the other way around, that we look in here to find the peace and joy and the passion, the things we love and want to create in here. What I hope for families and for children, maybe parents and grandparents will sit down with their kids and listen to this album and talk about it song by song. Well, I love You for Who You Are is the finale song of the album. I think, it could be what we say to our kids and to our nieces and nephews and grandchildren. “I love you for who you are. You don't have to do anything to win, my love. I love you just as you are.” I think everyone needs to hear that every day. [00:15:05] PF: No matter what age. Yeah, exactly. I think, the timing of it is so good, because as you said, we're looking for things outside us to get better. The children are feeling the stress that we've all been under for the past two years. I cannot even imagine how it's affecting them in ways that we're not aware of yet. What I love about Nature Child is has this healing, soothing, a very understated joy to it. Where it’s not an – I wouldn't say, an exuberant album. It's a soothing journey that just wraps itself around you. I think that is what children with families need right now, is just to be able to enjoy that journey together and feel that peace and that sense of belonging and love that exudes through the album. [00:15:56] S: Thank you for saying that. That is just beautifully said. That’s really beautiful. That's what I wish for this music. I think, there's no accident that it's coming out right now, when we probably need it more than ever, I needed. I mean, this music helped me get through these last two years, creating this music. [00:16:15] PF: Oh, I'm sure. [00:16:16] S: Recording this music and getting into the creative energy of possibility. What can we do with this? What does it want to do? Adding some sound effects here and there. It's like, I wasn't trying to figure out sound effects. I was just talking with John one day and said, “Oh, we need to put a real train on this song. We need to put the train on there.” Because kids, I thought, kids want to hear that train and feel how it could be so scary, or the water sounds of being in a boat on Home Is. Those things would just come to me. I would just be listening to wherever we were in the process of recording, I'd be listening to the song and then suddenly, I just heard sails flapping in the wind, and a lighthouse horn going off in the background, and the sounds of water lapping up against the boat and that ended up being in the intro of Home Is. It was just magical, how just the music let us know what it wanted. [00:17:10] PF: Right, right. Yeah. Every song will tell you what it needs, if you'll sit down and listen to it. [00:17:16] S: Absolutely. Absolutely. [00:17:18] PF: Yeah. With the album out now, are you going to tour? Are you doing shows? What happens now? [00:17:24] S: Well, I want that to happen. We've got to see what's going to happen with the virus. My plan is to get out there and perform this music for families and kids. I really want to do that. I also would love to sing it with an orchestra. I've never done that before. [00:17:38] PF: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Call the Nashville Symphony now. [00:17:44] S: Yeah. We're going to need to pitch it to them and say, Nature Child – A Dreamer's Journey could be a whole theme for maybe an afternoon children's program and family and children come, and then that night come to the other performance. Who knows? I'm just very open to possibility and I trust that when it's time to get out there with this music, it will open up and I'll be able to get out there and perform it, because I really am eager to do that. [00:18:11] PF: Absolutely. Do you have more songs coming, or what is – I know people are always – you write a book and people are like, “So what's your next book?” You're like, “Come on. We’re talking about this one.” I mean, you put together these family of songs. Is there another little group brewing inside of your mind? [00:18:33] S: I think there may be. I have no idea at this point. Right now, I’m at this point in time in my life, and I think maybe from being a coach, I've learned this, life is changing so fast right now. Technology is changing. Everything is changing so quickly. By the time you make a goal and you set that goal, everything has shifted in the world. You go, “Whoop. I guess, that's not going to work.” I'm more like, let's take one step at a time. There's a lot of energy right now around creating a series of videos, which we're calling storybook videos. One for each song on the album. [00:19:11] PF: Oh, nice. [00:19:13] S: We've done one on Avalon, and we're working on the second one. My plan is, I hope we can do this, is every month, release a storybook video for each of the songs, so that by the end of the year, we will have 12 storybook lyric video songs of the whole album. That's my focus right now. [00:19:32] PF: I love that. Yeah. We'll make sure we have the links from you and we'll put that on the landing page, because you'll have a couple of them up by the time this post. Then, they can go check them out and then start following it and collect the whole set. [00:19:46] S: Yeah, yeah. [00:19:48] PF: This is terrific. You've done so many different things with your music. You're evolving into a completely different voice than we heard with Nobody, which was really what introduced you to the world. What do you think that your legacy in music is going to be? [00:20:04] S: It'll probably be a mixed bag, because I think that Nobody was such a huge record. I think for most of my career now, that's been my signature song. Though, I had other hits and other number ones. Drifter and Tumbleweed and several other hit songs, but it just overshadowed all that, which is a wonderful thing. I would hope, though, in the long run, that this music would be what would be my legacy, the legacy that I care most about as far as it comes from my heart, it comes from a desire to connect in a genuine and heartfelt way with people through music and through story. That means a lot to me, because I think for thousands of years, humans on this planet have connected around story and around the fire, with a book for the last several hundred years. I would hope this would be what endures over time, long after I'm gone, because I think it's meaningful in a way that can be supportive and a loving message. [00:21:13] PF: It is. That's wonderful. Sylvia, thank you so much for giving me this time today and for creating this beautiful album. I'm excited for our listeners to learn more about it and be able to listen to it. We're going to give them links and let them know how they can learn more. I look forward to you going on tour. [00:21:29] S: Me too. I'm looking forward to it so much. Thanks. [00:21:33] PF: All right. Well, thank you again for kicking off On a Positive Note for us. [00:21:38] S: Oh, you're so welcome. I've really enjoyed it. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:21:43] PF: That was Sylvia talking about her new album, Nature Child – A Dreamer's Journey. You can learn more about Sylvia, where to buy her album, how to view her storybook videos and follow her on social media just by visiting livehappy.com and clicking on the podcast tab. We hope you've enjoyed this inaugural episode of On a Positive Note and look forward to joining you again next month. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Restoring Civility With Peter Montoya    [INTRODUCTION] [00:00:02] PF: Welcome to Episode 347 of Live Happy Now. As we continue celebrating March as the month of happiness, we're taking on civil war. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and this week, I am so excited to be talking to Peter Montoya, a speaker, thought leader and author who is truly committed to helping restore our civility. His latest book, The Second Civil War: A Citizen's Guide to Healing our Fractured Nation looks at the challenges we're facing as a society, how technology and media consumption, increase our anxiety, and what each of us can do to help stop that conflict. Today, we're talking about all those things, as well as talking about what he's creating, to help replace social media with civil media. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:45] PF: Peter, thank you so much for coming back on Live Happy Now. [00:00:49] PM: Paula, I'm thrilled to be here. You are one of my favorite hosts, I love your show. [00:00:55] PF: Oh, thank you so much. And we love it when you come and talk to us, because you always have such great new information for us, and as you know, as part of happiness month, we are looking at the theme of unity and that's why we talk to you. Because a lot of people were hopeful that this year was going to be one of like more unity, more civility, and that doesn't seem to be the case. What's keeping us so divided? [00:01:20] PM: We are inherently very, very tribal creatures. And that is our default mechanism. So, when I say tribal, we find various different ways of creating cohesive groups, and also creating out others or outside groups. We do this around national lines, political lines, religious lines, racial lines. So, racism is part of tribalism. Company around company boundaries, around sports teams, and even the cliques inside schools. We are tribal, tribal creatures, and that is our default. That's what we automatically go to. And over the course of our lives, we have become enculturated, into being cooperative with people who are not of our immediate tribe, which is actually somewhat of a miracle. It really is. So, look at all the ways we've been enculturated. So, when we first went to school in fifth grade, even before for fifth grade, before we’re five and went to kindergarten, we watch Sesame Street, and Sesame Street had different colored Muppets and people all cooperating and talking about sharing with the kindergarten. And we're talking about toll that everyone is the same. We live in a free country of equal rights, and we share with one another. We're all taught that everyone's the same and then we went to a church. And we're told to love thy neighbor as you love the Lord. I love everybody. The same with everyone else. And then we were taught the Pledge of Allegiance and how we all have the same allegiance to this flag, this country, and we all are all the same. This message is repeatedly beat into our heads over the course of our lifetimes. And so that's why it's such a miracle that we actually cooperate. So, there are uncontacted tribes still exist down in South America and other places in the world. And 30% of people die by violence, 30% of people die by human to human violence in those uncontacted cultures, and as the same number as it was 5,000 years ago, or 10,000 years ago, when we're still hunter gatherers. So, the fact that only 1% of people die in this country by violence is a miracle. The way we cooperate is a miracle. [00:03:55] PF: That's outstanding, because we don't think of that as being very cooperative right now. Because, we've had differences for a long time. These differences have always existed for us. But right now, there's so much more exposed and there's so much more of a, you have to be on a side. Are you vaccinated? Are you unvaccinated? Are you Republican or are you Democrat? I was talking to a friend who had lived in a purple state and she said, it used to be it didn't matter. She said now, people want to know where you stand. And so, why is that? Why is that bubbled up and become such a touch point of conflict for us? [00:04:36] PM: So, I've done a great – well, I'm an entrepreneur, and I've also been hired to go out and do leadership training. And now this is going to sound like a tangent, but please stay with me. I've oftentimes gone into companies which are falling apart and everyone's fighting and everyone's angry with one another. I go talk to the sales team, I talk to the customer service people, to the operations people. I talk to the engineering team. And what I do when I go out there is I find about all the things are good about the company. All the things are good about the products. Where are all the places that they agree upon, and it's like they agree on 80% or 90% of the things, and then I bring everyone together, and we talk about all the things we agree upon. The shared mission, the shared vision, the shared values, a shared culture. We talk about the things that we actually agree upon, and then once we're in agreement on that, then we say, “Okay, well, here are the couple things we need to fix.” I do not go in there and go to the sales team and go, “Oh, my God, have you heard what customer said about you? They said, you are the worst people in the world. And you are the devil and you're trying to bring down the company from the inside.” And when you watch the news, that is all they do. They spend 90% of their time vilifying another segment of the country. So, if you are consuming any news, and that means social media, podcasts, radio, cable TV, and 90% of the time is spent vilifying another person or another group, that media company is abusing you. They are manipulating you, so they can extract money from you. And how they do that is by getting your attention. They call fear mongering. They get you nice and riled up. Therefore, you watch their show more, you consume more other advertising, and those companies make more money, and they know it. So, this is not some secret conspiracy, like everyone doesn't know what the game is. That is the game. And if you hate half of America, you are a pawn in somebody else's chessboard. [00:06:47] PF: That was so well said, because let's talk for a minute about what it's doing to our communities, to our families, like whatever level you want to take it at. I've seen, there's so much conflict, even within families now over things they shouldn't be fighting about that, shouldn't be that big a deal because it doesn't – at the end of the day does not really affect them personally. [00:07:08] PM: You're absolutely right. It doesn't matter that much. So, Paula, I don't think you're as old as I am. But you might remember news in the television landscape in the 1980s. In the 1980s, drama was drama and news was news. We had three or four major news networks get Tom Brokaw, and Peter Jenning. And they all pride themselves on telling the truth. And being first those were the two major attributes. And then we also had these TV shows that got us to exercise our kind of ancient Greek archetypes, they were called Dallas and Dynasty. And news was news and drama was drama. We as human beings have a desire for both. We need more information. Because information we're taught basically, we believe we're very, very information hungry, because we want to keep safe. We want to survive. That’s how we're wired. And we also like drama. So, we also like these arc types of good and evil that also plays in our minds. And what happened in the 1990s and in the 2000s, and up until now, is that news and drama basically merged. Politics has become almost like a religion for us. And when we're watching cable news, or watching TV or listening to podcasts, what is happening is these media companies or personalities are creating these very ancient using the ancient archives in our brains of almost like gods and deities. And they are the almost like the Oracles who are helping you tell the future. And then you have the soldiers on this metaphorical battlefield, who are either fighting and thrusting or losing and being taken off the battlefield. And we're exercising this very, very naturally in our brains while watching the news. [00:08:57] PF: That's interesting, because nobody – I suspect that nobody listening to this has ever thought of it that way. [00:09:04] PM: So, when we go home, we used to watch Saturday Night Live, we used to watch the Oscars, we used to watch football. We used to talk about movies, we used to talk about everything else, but because now we're consuming so much media, that is the landscape that most people are now entrenched in, so it's all they think about and it seems really important. I mean, oh, my God, it’s going to be the end of the world. We're fighting for the soul of our country. The country is on the brink of extinction. I mean, it sounds absolutely horrifying to us. So obviously, it's the most important thing you need to talk about. And then we're incredibly tribal and we sit down at Thanksgiving dinner. And we you know, start saying, “Well, I heard that the election was stolen. I heard it was the safest and the most secure election in history.” And all we're doing is battling different tribal talking points. That's all we're doing. And the second hour I hear the wrong phrase come out of your mouth, let it be black lives matter or all lives matter, my ancient brain goes into fight or flight mode, even though you're my sister, my best friend, a coworker, and my little midbrain starts firing. As far as I'm concerned, I'm supposed to pick up a spear and kill you. Now, I've been enculturated well enough not to do that. [00:10:23] PF: You might throw the gravy ball. [00:10:26] PM : Right, exactly. Or scream or throw beer catch can at you. [00:10:32] PF: How do we change this? How do we get back to a civil discourse instead of a civil war? [00:10:36] PM: Great question. First of all, I stopped consuming media. I don't watch any media anymore. I only consume long form media. That means podcasts, documentaries, books, long articles. And they're usually happening well after the fact what actually happened. So, I only heard about that awful, terrible extraction from Afghanistan and heard stories about people falling off airplanes. But I'll probably wait a year until a book comes out which interviews all the people and I will spend an hour and a half or two hours watching a documentary, versus watching 20 minutes of news every single night that gets me all anxious and angry and upset in on trigger. I mean, that's what's happened. You go to dinner or lunch, and it seems like you're having a casual conversation. And before you know it, we're all triggered and all riled up. We talk about these very tribalistic issues. So, the first thing is, is you take yourself off the battlefield. That is the easiest thing and you do that by stopping consuming all the short form media that's making you anxious, angry and outraged. [00:11:41] PF: That's great. And what do we do when we are in environments with people who believe differently and who feel compelled to share those beliefs? And we know, we know that saying, no, but, or anything like that is going to start a war. But it's very difficult for people. I've talked with people who it's like, I knew I shouldn't have said anything, but like, because they, say I feel just as strongly as this other person does with a differing opinion, and it's hard to listen and listen and listen and not share your opinion. So, how do you take care of all this? Because that's where our problems are coming from. [00:12:22] PM: So, Paula, what you are going to do the next time you're in that scenario is you're going to access your wise mind. And your wise mind knows the following is you cannot change anybody's mind with facts. Absolutely cannot change anybody's minds with facts. The only way to change somebody else's mind is by a relationship, which means repeated long-term exposure to somebody and talking about things that are not in politics and non-religious. We're doing things we used to do, whether we’re playing games or board games, video games, hiking, camping, boating, shooting guns, whatever you do. But the only way to “change” somebody else's mind is through relationship. And next time you're in that moment, and you see it have compassion for this person who is actually genuinely hurting, and realize that when somebody is expressing their fear and anxiety about the future of the country, understand that they are sincerely in pain. And for anybody who has studied any kind of meditation, they are what the Buddhists call suffering, have compassion for them in where they are, and your job is just to love them and be in relationship with them. Because I promise you bring up the cudgel of facts, does not work. [00:13:44] PF: Right. And we see that time and time again and things end very badly. It hurts relationships, sometimes irreparably. [BREAK] I'll be right back with more on my talk with Peter Montoya about unity and civility. But right now, we've got another way that you can bring people together and that is through puzzles. I’ve got KC Johnson, our fabulous ecommerce marketing manager and we discovered Unidragon puzzles. KC, tell me what you love most about these these puzzles or wooden puzzles, for one. They're very different. It's not your average jigsaw puzzle. So, tell me what you thought about them. [00:14:19] KCJ: Yeah, they're not your average jigsaw puzzle. I love these. The colors are so vibrant. They have puzzles just in unique shapes. They have different animals like lion, tiger, elephants. [00:14:33] PF: Don't forget the wolf. [00:14:35] KCJ: Don't forget the wolf. I can't forget the wolf. Yeah, they’ve got wolves. They've got everything. And what I particularly love is that you can send gifts to your loved ones. And by gift, I mean, you can choose any puzzle and send it to your friends anywhere in the world. And it's super easy. Their website is very user friendly. I highly recommend it. It brings people together. There's so many just like mental health benefits to it as well. [00:14:58] PF: Absolutely. So, we're going to give our listeners a break on the price by ordering, they can go to unidragon.com and enter the code live happy now and get 10% off. Again, that is unidragon.com, enter the code live happy now get 10% off. And now let's get back to talking with Peter Montoya. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [00:15:18] PF: Let's talk about some tools that people can use to have a more civil discourse when these things are coming up. And sometimes it's at work, it can be at home, it can be with relatives. What are some of the things, what kind of conversations we need to start having, so that we can have more civil discourse and more unity? [00:15:38] PM: That’s a great question. I've got a bunch of questions that I have memorized. And they are, you know, just human. So, here's some of the questions that I use when someone starts to go political. I'll usually just go nod and go, “Oh, my gosh, yeah, I can see why you're really concerned about that.” And then I'll ask them a question. “What did you learn about your partner going through the pandemic?” [00:16:02] PF: Oh, wow. [00:16:00] PM: What did you learn about your relationship going through the pandemic? Here's another question. What made you smile today? What made you smile today? What was the most meaningful thing that happened to you in the last 24 hours? What are you most excited about that's coming up in your life? What is the most important thing, a tangible thing to you in the world? What's the most important thing to you in the world? Those are some of the questions that I have memorized at the tip of my tongue. I use those things freely and give them away, because they're really effective at making as human beings. [00:16:45] PF: That's fantastic, because everyone likes to feel included, and everyone wants to talk about themselves. And so, when you give them that opportunity and take their focus off of what's riling them up, I imagine there's an incredible physiological change going on with them. [00:17:03] PM: Absolutely. And you're connecting with them again. Because the truth is, this these studies are in my book, The Second Civil War: A Citizen’s Guide to Healing our Fractured Nation is my book. It's the first political self-help book. And one of the things that's in there, a whole bunch of charts, where they actually go and poll Americans on different issues, Republicans and Democrats. They asked the questions about gun control. Abortion, which is a really sticky issue. They ask questions about immigration and thoughts on the police. And guess what? On issue after issue 70% to 80% of Americans agree on even the most controversial issues. One of the questions is, should guns be more regulated? Yes or no? 70% to 80% of both Democrats and Republicans say yes. Now, you would think well, no Peter, that'd be 50/50. It would be half and half, or 100% of Democrats and 0% Republicans. It's not. It's 70% to 80% on both sides. But what we've been taught is by looking at the news is they only show the extremes of each of the other parties. They don't show the broad middle. They don't show all the stuff we agree on, they concentrate on the differences. So, walk into any conversation you're having here, looking for the 80% of agreement, versus the 5% of the most volatile issues you could possibly talk about, which is the news of war. The news of the day that people are both, just so you know, I really don't believe there are very few people who have original thoughts and that includes me. I don't think any of my thoughts are original. I’m always called a cryptonesiac. That means I consume so much information, I don't know where it came from. And then I spout all the information as if it's my own. And so, 90% of the time, most people are only spouting opinions, or catchphrases, or talking points that they heard from their “pastor”, which is their media source. And what their pastor or their media source told them is now cocked in their brain. And when they have a conversation, they bring out what they've been told, and all we're doing is repeating somebody else's thought. Very few people have really original thoughts. [00:19:23] PF: And as soon as someone disagrees with us, we dig in and go deeper into that thought. [00:19:29] PM: Because we're tribal. Our default mechanism is to look for people who are different than us, and then to expel them, shun them, or shame them out of the tribe. That is what our default settings do. [00:19:41] PF: So, as you've been studying this, you do so much research and look at what we're doing, do you have optimism that we're going to heal this divide? That we're going to come back together? And if so, please tell us how because not everyone shares that optimism. [00:19:58] PM: Yeah, I do. So, when the printing press was back in the 1400s, there was 30 years of global chaos. After the printing press was created, everyone thought all the intellectual thought leaders, the day basically thought, “Oh, my gosh, well, now the masses will be educated. We're going to make sure that everyone's able to read and write. We can disseminate human information.” And that was true. But also, what happened was massive misinformation was spread. All of a sudden people, one person was able to spread to many thousands, hundreds of thousands or tens of thousands of people misinformation. And after that there was massive war, massive political upheaval, and it took about 30 years for society to figure out the ethics, the stopgap measures, the measurements to put in place to get things kind of stabilized against, they could use this amazing information transfer responsibly. So, the first step of all problem solving of all leadership is to agree upon a common set of facts. And what has happened between the confluence of social media and cable media is now we've had massive misinformation, and it only takes 5% of all information, that is misinformation, to completely disrupt cooperation. That's it. [00:21:17] PF: Wow. [00:21:18] PM: So, if 5% is misinformation, of the available information, that's enough to disrupt cooperation. Basically, I would look at Facebook, its invention in 2014, as being the kind of the starting gun as to when like the start of the printing press. So, that was basically 14, 15 years ago, we're about 15 years away from solving this problem. And I really believe that a civil media, which is a different category than a social media platform, will be the solution to that. And that's what I'm doing, is building a civil media platform, which we think will eliminate bots, and trolls, dramatically reduce misinformation, so that we can all agree again on a common set of facts, so that we can then cooperate. [00:22:08] PF: Tell me more about what you're building, because I've looked at your site, and it is pretty fascinating. And I guess first, this is going to be a multiple part question, because I want you to tell us what it is you're building, and then how it's going to alter our experience with what we now call social media. [00:22:26] PM: Yeah, great question. So, that lends us to what we believe is what we're doing is we're creating a new category of media called civil media. And social media means a couple of things. Number one, nobody – you don't know who you're talking to. So, people use pseudonyms, they’re anonymous, and in which case, they have no reputational risk, which means that people behave on social media in very uncivil ways. There are the people who use their own names, their own pictures, and among their own friends, who usually behave the best. And if you want to see the most uncivil behavior, you look at platforms like HN or 4N, where everyone was anonymous, and you will find the most hateful, vile, disgusting, inhuman, uncivil behavior possible. So, we think we can introduce civility again, which means people will be kind and respectful, because, people will be who they say they are. They will have reputational risk. Their identities will be verified. And the second thing that we put in place is what's called trust score. And trust score is not created by a computer. The trust score is created the same way we create a trust score in the real world, and that is through your friend group. So, in the minds of every one of your friends, Paula, your friends go, “Is Paula a good person or a bad person? Do I trust Paula or not?” And we more or less have digitized that, such that it's not any one person who is basically saying your civil or uncivil, but a whole web, a whole collection, we built a very complicated algorithm that helps compute this trust score. And the higher your trust score, the more your content is amplified, and the lower your trust scores, the lower is amplified. I believe in freedom of speech. And if somebody wants to be a hateful, vile racist, and they want to spout racist epithets, they are free to do so in the privacy of their own living room. They just don't deserve necessarily to be on the front page of the newspaper or get primetime on any news channel. And the same thing with a social media platform, we just don't have to amplify people who are not trusted. So, between the trust score and identity verification, we think we can bring back kindness and respect. And the second thing that makes a civil media platform different is that not only emphasizes communication, but more importantly, cooperative action. And so, we are building tools that will help people, leaders, unifiers, gather people who care about causes to either give their time, their money or resources to solve problems. My heart has broken this last year at least twice as I've heard about pandemic outbreaks in India and 5,000 people were dying a day in the streets because they didn't have hospital bed. I heard the stories I shared earlier about in Afghanistan, people falling off airplanes, and I thought, “Oh, my God, this is horrible. What can I do?” And there was no button for me to push. There's nothing for me to do. I didn't know where to go. And so, what a civil media platform does is not only shares the information, but provides the tools for the organizations and the people who are on the ground, looking for support to solve the problems. So, the job of our civil media platform is to perpetuate the survival of our species by getting the right people, capital, and resources to the people who need it most. [00:26:01] PF: And you're really dialing down all the hate talk and acrimony that's going on right now. And as people are in that environment, how is it going to change in the real world? Like as we spend less time in these street fights of social media, and more time in like a genuinely nurturing, supportive environment, whether that's online or at home or in real world, how is that going to start rippling out? [00:26:30] PM: Oh, gosh. That’s a great question. I think about that, the answer, the question and the answer every single day. So, the goal of social media companies is to keep you on their platforms as much as possible. The average human being, or the average social media user spends 2 hours and 25 minutes a day on social media. They scroll through 325 feet of feed, which is the same height as the Statue of Liberty. And we think that social media is at its worst, when it's keeping you from having real world interactions with people sitting right next to you, or lying next to you in bed. That's when social media is at its worst. When civil media is at its best, it facilitates real world interactions. We are an incredibly social creature. We need the connection or the approval of other people. And so, what on Urth, which is the name of our platform, Urth, urtch.cc is about is about facilitating real world interactions, and actually minimizing the time they spend on our platform. [00:27:38] PF: That's excellent. So, you have a beta version coming up? [00:27:43] PM: Yep. Beta version should be out in early 2023. It's a big plot platform. It's a big product. [00:27:49] PF: Yeah. So, what do we do until then? Because we can't wait to get civil until then. So, what is it we need to be doing? We can't change others and we shouldn't try. So, what is it that we should be doing to promote more unity, and create our own community? Let's start there. [00:28:07] PM: I attended my first personal development course back when I 18 years old, or maybe 19 in 1987, that'll tell you how old I am. Well, I remember the following message. They told me this, 30 some years ago. They said, if you're in a relationship, you can't change the other person. The only thing you can do is change yourself. And I've heard that message and I remember that message from 35 years ago, and that is the absolute truth. For anybody who's been married, and said, “Well, my partner's broken”, and they've tried to fix their spouse, or their boyfriend or their girlfriend or their partner, you will learn very, very quickly, you cannot change them. However, if you change yourself, it changes the relationship. So, when you accept them wholeheartedly, you reduce your anxiety. You are healthy of mind, body, and spirit, and you bring yourself to that relationship, you will notice the relationship changes. You've never tried to change somebody else. You only change yourself. [00:29:13] PF: And for people that say, “But I don't need to change. They do.” Because that's the common response, right? [00:29:22] PM: Yeah, I'm done. I fully evolve. [00:29:28] PF: So, what’s our, like prescriptions, doctor? How do we start doing that? How do we start taking a step back, taking a breath, and coexisting more peacefully? [00:29:39] PM: Yeah. I think probably the first thing is to realize, and I've asked people that question before in training rooms, who here is perfect, and there's usually 10% of the hands that go up, and they kind of laugh when they're saying it. But there's a secret to that. When they actually are raising their hand, they actually believe it's true. And they're kind of joking about it, but no, that’s what they think. They really do think that they are perfect. And it is a trap that some people – I’m sorry, all of us to a certain degree fall into is that we think if we're perfect, we'll be more lovable. And it's exactly the opposite. The more “perfect” you are, the less likely you are to change. The more inflexible you are, the more righteous you are, the more intolerable you are, the less likely people want to be around you. So, thinking that you don't need to change or grow is a trap of the ego. And it is the best way to keep yourself lonely, isolated, and suffering. So, the first realization is, nobody is perfect. We are not a done. There's not ultimately who we are, there is a process of what we are, we are all in process. We are all in a journey. And as soon as you not only know that, like you heard me say it, but you know it into the fiber of your being that you are a process, that you are imperfect, and you'll never be done growing, and the best way to have connection with other people is humility and authenticity, not putting up this phony facade that you're perfect, the better off you will be and the less suffering you will have. [00:31:22] PF: I like it. Peter, thank you for breaking things down for us today. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. You always have so much wisdom to impart on us and I really appreciate you coming in and talking with me today. [00:31:35] PM: Paula, I could talk to you every day all day. [00:31:38] PF: we should do that. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:31:45] PF: That was Peter Montoya, giving us some great advice on how to help create a more civil world. If you'd like to learn more about Peter, follow him online, learn about the New Earth civil media platform, or check out his latest book, just visit our website at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. And remember to check out those amazing puzzles at unidragon.com and get a 10% discount by entering the code live happy now. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all new episode. And until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every, day a happy one [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Embracing the Power of Sisterhood With Carin Rockind  [INTRODUCTION] [00:00:02] PF: Welcome to Episode 353 of Live Happy Now. This week, we’re celebrating women in a big way. I’m your host, Paula Felps. Today, I’m being joined by women’s happiness and life purpose expert, Carin Rockind, who many of you know from the PurposeGirl Podcast and courses. This year, she has once again put together an incredible online event for International Women’s Day, and she’s going to tell us more about why this day is so important, what her free live event is all about and what she hopes we all learn from it. It’s a lot to take in. So sit back and get ready to get excited. [INTERVIEW]   [00:00:37] CR: Carin, welcome back to Live Happy Now. [00:00:40] CR: Thank you. I’m so happy to be here, Paula. Thank you for having me. [00:00:44] PF: Well, it’s been about a year since we talked, and we had a great reason for talking last year. We have an equally great, perhaps an even greater reason this year. You’ve got the second year of – okay, you tell me about it. Don’t let me introduce it. You introduce it because I might screw it up. [00:01:02] CR: Well, we are gearing up for this second annual, The Women’s Day event. This is, as far as I know, the world’s largest event for International Women’s Day. We put it together – I was sitting there last year, 2021, after that year that everyone had had with the pandemic, and everyone was on lockdown last year no matter where they were in the world. People were – so many people lost jobs, women were disproportionately negatively impacted in terms of the majority of jobs lost were by women or women were taking on the majority of kind of the homeschooling duality that was happening. I was sitting there last January like, “I got to do something.” I thought, “I’m going to throw the world’s largest event for International Women’s Day.” [00:01:54] PF: It’s important to know that your timing, you had just had a baby. The timing wise, it’s not like you had all this spare time where you’re like, “Hey, I’ve got nothing else going on.” [00:02:05] CR: Right. I have my own women’s empowerment business, speaking, coaching podcasting, the whole thing and just thought, I want to do something, do something meaningful. And at the time, I think he was seven or eight months old. Actually, January, he would have been six months old by the time we did the event on March 8. And as far as I know, Paula, with your help and support at Live Happy Now and Live Happy in general, we had the world’s largest event. We had 2,500 women registered for the event, 25 speakers. We went from 8:00 AM in the morning until 8:00 PM live all day. What was so fun and women said, “Oh! I thought I would just come on for this one speaker. I thought I would just come on for my lunch break and I stayed all day, because it was just so incredible.” We’re gearing up for the second annual, either because I’m crazy. I might, you know, like what is wrong with my head? Or really, it’s because I am all about purposes, you know, right? My business is called PurposeGirl, and I’m all about my purpose, inspiring other women to live their purpose. And this is our time, I’m just feeling this huge shift right now to each and every one of us stepping into our own leadership, really getting clear on what is our legend to leave to the world? How do we live our own purpose? Knowing that that makes us such a more satisfied, resilient, optimistic, happy life. I’m like, “We’re doing it again, and we’re just going to do it as big or bigger.” The lineup of speakers is like, insane. When your listeners are listening to this, I’m hoping that you’re all listening for two things. One, obviously, we want you to attend. It’s free. It’s 12 hours. We’re going to go through everything. [00:03:51] PF: There’s no reason not to. [00:03:53] CR: There’s no reason not to, because you can join for a half hour of one keynote speaker. You could join for three hours. You could come in and out. Like my mom was in and out all day, last year. I want everyone listening to this to know that when you have a full body, yes, you get an idea, you have a dream. It’s like, “I would love to do that.” Maybe for someone, that’s singing on a stage or for someone else that’s writing a book or whatever it is. When you have the full body, yes, like I had around creating this event, I want you to know that it’s possible, and to just go do it. [00:04:25] PF: Oh, that’s fantastic. I think this event is so great, because all these women are doing it, and they’re doing so many different things. So really, it’s like going to this great buffet table where it’s like. Okay, well, that’s not for me, but oh my gosh, I can load up on this and this and this. Let’s talk about some of the speakers that you have and some of the things that are going to happen throughout this day. [00:04:50] CR: Yeah, I would love to. So yeah, I’m a huge fan and believe that like, the happy woman is the whole woman. It’s like every single aspect of ourselves, and the lineup is insane. So again, we are bringing you more than 25 speakers. We’re still getting a couple of yeses, and so figuring out who the last couple are. But what we do throughout the day, we have these power talks and power talk is like a keynote, but I’m interviewing someone like we’re doing here on a particular topic, right? My keynotes, I’m so excited, drumroll please, we can announce that one of the power talks is going to be by Regina Thomashauer. If you don’t know Regina Thomashauer, many people call her Mama Gena, aka Mama Gena. She is the New York Times bestselling author of Pussy: A Reclamation. Yes, I said the word pussy on the airwaves. A lot of us, like the first time I heard that word I went, “Ugh!” Like it just got me into the bones, like that’s a negative word. But her whole thing, and listen, it’s a New York Times bestselling book. Because she’s talking about women reclaiming their feminine power. Taking back a word that has been trashed and made into something weak and saying no. Instead, we’re going to own our bodies, we’re going to own our femininity, we’re going to own our power and we’re going to own that the deepest part of ourselves knows our truth. She herself is the survivor of abuse, of sexual abuse. She herself has been through a number of different traumas and talks about how she felt like she lost her power along the way in this book. She teaches, she has now taught tens of thousands, maybe – I’m going to take it back. Millions of women, because when I think about the classes that I’ve taken with her, I was in a classroom with 900 other women taking this class over three, four, five months, something like that. The way that she teaches you to own your whole body, and to come back into your power is unlike anything I have ever experienced. Because it’s not power like, “Err!”, what we’ve been taught how we’re supposed to be powerful in the world, but it’s power from within, and truly what are my desires. She teaches women to celebrate themselves. She teaches women to emote, right? She calls it ADA keys that we are allowed our full expression of emotion. Instead of sucking down when you’re angry, or you’re sad. She says the way that we can really heal and the way that we can be in our power is to own and then alchemize all of our emotions. She teaches you what to do with anger, what to do with grief and it’s so powerful. She’s a New York Times bestselling author for a reason. Thousands and thousands, millions of women have learned so much from her about your own sensuality, taking back your power and all parts of your body. She’s one of the power talks. Another power talk is another New York Times bestselling author, Kristine Carlson. Kris Carlson’s late husband, Richard wrote, Don’t Sweat the Small Stuff. When I was first getting into self-help, and all of that, that book was all the rage, right? [00:07:57] PF: Right.  [00:07:58] CR: Do you know that book? [00:07:59] PF: That was like the door opener. Yeah, absolutely. [00:08:00] CR: Yeah, it was. It was, don’t sweat the small stuff. And by the way, it’s all small stuff. Right? He wrote this book, and then together, they went on to write. Don’t Sweat the Small Stuff for Couples. She wrote, Don’t Sweat the Small Stuff for Women. They made a whole line kind of like Chicken Soup. They made a whole line of Don’t Sweat the Small Stuff. Then he tragically passed away, and she was left with this enormous grief, this enormous hole in her heart. What do I do now? Through her own healing process, and being what she calls broken open. she came to really create a whole new line of healing and empowerment with women around healing from grief. I specifically approached her. I actually approached her first to be the first speaker at the Women’s Day event. Because after what we’ve all been through for the last two years, we’re struck with grief, right? There’s so much anxiety, you and I have talked about this. [00:09:00] PF: Oh my gosh, yeah. It’s a huge topic. Everybody is dealing with grief and loss on some level. [00:09:07] CR: On some level and probably multiple levels, right? You yourself have been sick. You have loved ones who have passed, being isolated in your home not being with loved ones for the holidays. She was the first person I approached to be a speaker at the Women’s Day event because I feel like we’re all healing from grief right now and we all want to. [00:09:27] PF: That is wise. Yeah, that’s fantastic. [00:09:30] CR: Yeah. She’s going to be doing a power talk specifically on how do we heal now, what do we do with grief now, how do we become whole again after feeling like we’ve been broken open. And what based on that is our purpose what do we do? She’s incredible. Another keynote speaker or power talk is from someone who I know you have had on your show before, Valorie Burton. [00:09:54] PF: She is amazing. She is so fantastic. [00:09:58] CR: Ah! Is she ever. Valorie Burton, if you haven’t listened to the episode of Paula, go back and listen to it. She’s incredible. She has written I think 12 books. She had nearly a million copies of her books in circulation all around women’s happiness and women’s success. She has her master’s degree in positive psychology, the science of happiness, human flourishing, like I do, that’s where I met her. She is now sought after by the today’s show, to be like a frequent life coach for them and on a number of different shows. Her most recent book is about guilt. She and I are going to dive in during her power talk all around guilt and how we’ve been hanging on. Find me a woman that has not been experiencing or has experienced in the past guilt. [00:10:43] PF: Oh my gosh! Yeah. [00:10:45] CR: I just had this last night. My dad went into the hospital, my whole family is in Michigan, and I’m here in Pennsylvania and my sister was visiting. The whole family was there when he went into the hospital last night, and here I am in Pennsylvania. And just feeling guilty that I’m not there, I can’t help. I call my mom, “What can I do?” And it’s like, well, what can I do? I’m here. I’m not there. Feeling that amount of guilt. The same time, everything you just said, I do throw the world’s largest event for International Women’s Day. I do have my own podcast that you’re going to be on and running this whole business for women to be in their power and live their purpose and I have a baby. So I’ll have so many moments of guilt. Should I be with my child instead of working? When I’m with my child, should I be working because I’ve got clients who are counting on me? In the Women’s Day event, she’s going to help us navigate guilt. How do we let go of the guilt? [00:11:41] PF: Yeah. Because I think everyone deals with that, and we steal from ourselves. Because when we’re with our children, we’re thinking, “Oh my gosh! I’ve got to work on this, this and this, so we’re not giving them that full attention.” And then when we’re working too much, we’re thinking about what we should be giving the children. We’re not giving our work the kind of attention that would get it done quicker, and let us get back to what we need to be doing. It’s such a hamster wheel. [00:12:06] CR: Such a hamster wheel. That’s so well said, Paula. If we would just be doing the thing that were present for the thing that we actually need to be doing, we wouldn’t be – [00:12:16] PF: But it’s hard. [00:12:17] CR: It is very hard. Her most recent book is on that, on letting go of guilt. Of course, I’m like, “Val, please, please, please.” She’s so incredible. She already was speaking somewhere else on International Women’s Day. She’s like, “Oh my God! I would love to do this for you, Carin, but I can’t, because I’m already speaking.” I think I just had to ask her three different ways and find a creative way to do it. I’m like, “I’m not letting this go. You’re my gal.” Because it’s so – I run this event for free, which is just out of my pocket. I pay for extra staff and for all the work that needs to go into it. But I want to put on the best event possible, because it’s my purpose, right? These are the power talks. I have one more power talk that’s going to be coming on by someone who you totally need to have on your show, but she’s fairly new into this whole world, and so you probably haven’t heard of her yet. Her name is Jenni Rochelle, and she’s all about intimacy and connection. [00:13:17] PF: Oh, nice. [00:13:18] CR: Because we have been disconnected. [00:13:22] PF: We are so disconnected and we can’t – I’ve talked with people who are struggling to reconnect. They actually have anxiety about trying to connect with people, because we’ve gotten so bad at it from being locked in our homes. [00:13:34] CR: Yes. Before being locked in our homes, we were locked on our phone. [00:13:39] PF: Yeah, true. [00:13:41] CR: It’s like we didn’t even realize the precious commodity that we had in connection before. I was talking to her about what happens when we aren’t in intimacy, when we aren’t allowing that. She was saying, “We end up in resentment. We end up in anxiety. We end up in a place of holding grudges and of feeling alone.” So she and I, during her power talk are going to go really deep into intimacy and how do we create it. Because I was sharing with her one of the things that I’ve experienced. I was in an abusive relationship when I was 17. My very first love physically abused me. That was 30 years ago. I still hang on to some trust issues. [00:14:30] PF: Sure. That goes with it. [00:14:34] CR: It goes with it. John Gottman’s work around – who’s the world’s leading researcher, and in healthy marriages and healthy relationships. The work on leaning in, and I find myself really being scared to lean in. I still find it even though I’m married to a wonderful man. And when I was going through all this last night with my dad, I was starting to think, “Why isn’t my partner being more loving to me right?” And instead, it was like, “Wait! This is a moment to create intimacy and say, “Hon, I need a hug. Can we connect? Can you go get me froyo?” Which is what I actually did and he, “We have a big snowstorm, am I cleaning off the car?” there’s this opportunity and this need to connect and to find intimacy, even in the midst of a pandemic. She’s going to be coming on and she’s absolutely incredible. We’re covering intimacy and connection. We’re covering the mom guilt, the daughter guilt and we’re covering sexuality. Then beyond that, I have panels. [00:15:34] PF: But wait, there’s more. [00:15:34] CR: But wait, there’s more. [BREAK] [00:15:38] PF: I’m going to be right back with more of my conversation with Carin, but I wanted to pause for just a moment and talk about how you can make your world a safer place. The online world as we all know, can be an unpredictable one. And even though we’d like to think we’re always safe, that’s not always the case. As we spend more of our lives online, we find ourselves thinking twice before, say, clicking on a link or opening an email. Or we might be worried about getting scammed, hacked or fall in prey to malware or identity theft. The good news is, there’s great real time protection available for you and your family. When you use the browser extension, Guardio, you can do your thing online with complete confidence that every click is safe. You can run a free security scan right now to see what threats are on your browser. And then if you’re interested in their protection, you can get 20% off your plan when you sign up at guard.io/livehappynow. That’s guard.io/livehappynow. Now, let’s get back to my conversation with Carin and learn more about her upcoming International Women’s Day event and find out how you can be a part of it. [00:16:45] CR: Other aspects, there is an incredible panel on leadership. What does it mean to be a feminine leader? Yeah. Because when I know that your audience is a mix of gender identities, and obviously here, we’re talking about people who are female identified. But I’m going to make a case for feminine leadership, no matter your gender identity. That is, that feminine leadership isn’t – the word feminine has been truncated to mean, petal pink and smell like baby powder. No, no, no, that’s not what I’m talking about. [00:17:22] PF: Baby soft. Remember that? [00:17:23] CR: Exactly, right. Like the feminine care products that are in your drugstore, that’s not what I mean. What I mean is, the sides of leadership that are all about connection and humanity, compassion, the emotional intelligence, the trust, right? The creating a loving environment for those that you lead, the lack of hierarchy that it’s not that any one person is better than the other or higher than the other, but that we’re all in this together as a team. That’s what I’m talking about when we’re talking about feminine leadership. It’s the parts of ourselves that have been called the kind of soft skills. We just don’t want to call it soft skills, because those are like the actual hard skills. [00:18:08] PF: Exactly, yeah. [00:18:11] CR: Those are the harder skills to learn, to navigate. In all of us, some people might like the words masculine, feminine, some people might not. We replace it with whatever word you want, but the idea of us leading from love. There’s a panel coming together on how do we lead from a totally different place. The women that I’ve lined up to speak on really leading from the middle of the pack, as opposed to it needing to be this hierarchy. Because we’ve seen so many people abuse their power when they think of leadership in this power over way. We’re going to have a discussion about leadership. That’s internal leadership first, and then how do we lead from the middle of the pack, the back of the pack, the side of the pack and it’s going to be incredible. That panel, counter to that or not even counter but complementary to that. We have a beautiful parenting panel.   [00:19:05] PF: Oh, nice! [00:19:07] CR: Right. Now is the time. In fact, one of the women on the parenting panel, she’s an expert in teaching your kids how to study. Because we may go back down into lockdown and we may – people are dealing with different situations with their kids, and studying and homeschooling, and all of that, that none of us would have even thought was a thing two years ago. So she’s going to be teaching that. There’s going to be a parenting panel on how do we support our girls, our children in speaking up, speaking their voice. How do we navigate all of that? There’s going to be a life coaching panel, just me and three other coaches really diving into how do you go after your goals, how do you create what you want in life, how do you tenfold it. Everything that we know from life coaching. As well as throughout the day, we start off the day with a yoga class. That’s like a combination of yoga and movement. It’s called the feminine fire method. [00:20:04] PF: Oh, nice. It’s so incredible. It’s with this woman, Allison Verna Thompson. She combines yoga, Pilates, dance, salsa, so that you begin low and slow like meditating. And by the end, you are up on your feet, you are dancing, you are alive. There’s also going to be yoga with Shayla Stonechild toward the end of the day. She is the only indigenous woman to have ever been on the cover of Yoga Journal. She is going to be leading a yoga class. I mean, we have packed the day in this incredible, beautiful way. I’m going to be doing a keynote about purpose. How do you know what your purpose is? What is your purpose? What is the legend that you’re here to live? What are the steps to actually figure out, discover your purpose? How do you get the courage to go after it? How do you create, let’s say, someone wants to create their own example of the Women’s Day event or something like that? Or a podcast like you do, Paula? How do they do that? That’s going to be a big theme. In fact, the overarching theme is, Say it Sister. [00:21:08] PF: I love that. [00:21:10] CR: Because we’re at a point, I think in the world where it’s our time to speak, and to speak up, and speak up for the rights of all, speak up for your own vision, speak up for being paid the same. The UN has themed this year’s International Women’s Day as break the barrier. So we absolutely want to break the bounds, we want to break the barrier. I believe the way that we do that is to speak up, and to say it loudly and say it proudly. [00:21:41] PF: One thing I love about this event is, it encompasses all ages. Wherever you’re at, all the stages as well. [00:21:49] CR: Yes. [00:21:50] PF: It doesn’t matter if you are just starting out and trying to navigate your way through this world. Or if you’re a little bit farther along and you’re kind of like, “Ugh! Maybe your kids are grown and now you’re trying to figure out what do I do now?” That’s what I love about this. It doesn’t matter where you are, you can jump in and gain something from it. [00:22:06] CR: Yes. In fact, I love that you said that. There is a separate sensuality panel all around sensuality, intimacy. One of the women on that panel, Ken Wizner, she calls herself the menopause madam. Last year, I had a sensuality panel and I will be honest, racially diverse group, but age all around the same age. I said to Kim, “I need you on the panel next year because I want all women no matter where they are at their age and stage of life to know.” And on the life coaching panel, one of the women on it with me, her name is Amanda Hanson, and her whole thing is revolutionizing midlife. [00:22:43] PF: Love that. [00:22:44] CR: We don’t need midlife to look like it. We thought it looked on our mothers or our grandmothers. We get to define midlife as the best time in our life. I feel better at midlife at 47 than I ever have in my life.  [00:22:57] PF: Absolutely. [00:22:59] CR: It does encompass this whole range. We are such diverse women, even just within ourselves. The intersectionality, we’re not just any one thing. I’m 47, I’m going through perimenopause, and I’m postpartum, because I got a baby. We are all all of the above and we get to cover that. In fact, the event is free, it’s 100% free for anyone to attend. But I wanted to have a giveback component. We do make the recordings available for sale, and before the event, you can get all 12 hours of the recordings, the yoga classes, the movement classes, all the speakers, all the panels, all of it for only $97. What I’m doing with a portion of proceeds is donating it. I want us to be able to come together and to give back. I’ve chosen two different nonprofits. One that specifically goes to girls and speaking up and girls’ leadership. And one that is all about supporting women and their families all over the world, and that’s Women’s Campaign International. That creates training for women in Afghanistan, women in the Sudan, women in countries all over to teach these women how to have economic independence, how to create their own, you know, wealth and worth for their families. It’s really, like when we come together, there’s our own individual learning, and then there’s coming together for something greater. I’m so thrilled that the founder and chair of Women’s Campaign International, Marjorie Margolies, who is a former US House of Representatives, as well as a former news correspondent anchor for the Today’s Show, and NBC and a number of different outlets. As well as, she’s Chelsea Clinton’s mother-in-law. She’s going to be speaking at the event about Women’s Campaign International and the work that when we all come together, we can do for women all over the world. We really are covering the gamut here. [00:25:03] PF: You really are. It’s such a terrific day, it’s so much to take in. I’m so glad that you’re making it available after the fact. But what is it? Now you’re in your second year, you’ve got the little hindsight, and you put one of these together? What is it that you really hope at the end of the day, literally the end of the day, that people are walking away from this event feeling? [00:25:25] CR: Hmm, such a great question. I want every human that participates in the event to say, “I can do it too.” Whatever you see in any one speaker, panelist, the panel as a total or the event as a total. I really believe that this is our time to rise, and that the world has been waiting for us at this moment. That the things that we have been experiencing are very real. The challenges of a pandemic, and of the politics, and of racial justice and all that we as American society and the world have been experiencing and cocreating. All of that can leave us feeling just down, depressed, anxious, go back to bed, have as much ice cream. [00:26:22] PF: Or froyo.  [00:26:23] CR: Froyo, right? And then there’s this opportunity for every single one of us to say, “And what’s my part?” That each one of us was born with superhero powers, with strengths, with talents, with gifts. Each one of us has different passions, each one of us has a different way that we can change the world, that we can contribute, whether that is within our family, within our neighborhood, the world at large. That’s how we’re going to really – the world is going to change when every single one of us steps into that piece. What’s my part? Tara Davina is an incredible singer, she sings about rising up. She’s going to be singing during the event, like I want every single person who attends to see themselves in one of these incredible, incredible speakers, panelists, singers, and to say, “I can do that too.” Because we’re the ones we’ve been waiting for, right? Like no one’s coming along on a white horse. We’re the ones who can make ourselves our happiest, our most purposeful, our most alive, our most radiant self. The reason I’m obsessed with purpose is we know from all the research that when you live your purpose, you have high life satisfaction. You are resilient, you feel optimistic and you feel so proud of yourself and it’s an inner radiance. I want every single person who experiences this event to feel that and to have the tools, and the inspiration and the motivation to go do it. [00:27:58] PF: That is so excellent. I’m really excited for this to take place, and we’re going to tell them on the landing page, we’ll tell the listeners how to sign up, where they can go, give them all the details, make it super easy. [00:28:08] CR: And it is easy. It’s thewomensdayevent.com. Super, super, super easy. I love doing it in partnership with you Paula and with Live Happy. You have been such a great partner to us. We love telling everybody about Live Happy Now and your podcast because it’s incredible. [00:28:27] PF: We thank you for that.  [00:28:28] CR: Absolutely, absolutely. We love telling everyone about your podcast. We have your logo all over our event, because it’s a great partnership. [00:28:36] PF: Yeah, it’s a such a great fit and I’m really glad that we were able to connect again and make this happen. [00:28:41] CR: Me too. Thank you, Paula. [00:28:43] PF: Looking forward to the event. [00:28:45] CR: Me too. Thank you so much, sister. [END OF INTERVIEW] [00:28:52] PF: That was Carin Rockind talking about her upcoming International Women’s Day event. If you’d like to learn more about this free event, sign up for it or learn more about Carin and the work she’s doing. Just visit our website at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. That is all we have time for today. We’ll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. And until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Celebrating Your Pets With Brittany Derrenbacher    [INTRODUCTION] [00:00:02] PF: Welcome to Episode 352 of Live Happy Now. There's a big holiday in February that's all about love, and it isn't Valentine's Day. This week, we're talking about National Love Your Pet Day. I'm your host, Paula Felps. And this week, I'm sitting down with Brittany Derrenbacher, a clinical mental health counseling intern and founder of Luna Bell's Moonbows, a special needs animal rescue. In celebration of National Love Your Pet Day on February 20th, Brittany is joining me to talk not only about what our pets do for us, but to look at how we can learn to celebrate them every day, and enrich our lives in the process. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:42] PF: Brittany, welcome back to Live Happy Now. [00:00:45] BD: Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I'm really happy to be back. [00:00:49] PF: Well, we have National Love Your Pet Day coming up. And of course, we thought of you, because you know pets, and you know how they work. And so I really wanted to talk to you about this, because we're all crazy about our pets. But they do so much for us that we don't even think about. So I wondered if you could talk, first of all, about some of the gifts that our pets are giving us that we're not even realizing. [00:01:11] BD: Yeah. I mean, I feel like this episode should really be called like the power of pets. [00:01:17] PF: Ooh, I like that. [00:01:18] BD: Yeah. Because I feel like the gifts that they give us are endless. I mean, really, we could sit here and talk about this for hours, because I think even if we were able to brainstorm through just an exhaustive list, I think there's still something that could be added to it daily, right? And I think it's most important first to talk about the joy that they give us. I think that is the most important gift that is so unique to animals, because it's that no strings attached kind of joy. And I think that there's like nothing that compares to that, right? I mean, the joy of coming home to our animals. And for those of us who work from home, I mean, I know for myself and probably for you, we’re super lucky that we get to spend time 24/7 with our pets and really soak up all the benefits. [00:02:09] PF: Yeah. [00:02:10] BD: But I think they also help us gain a sense of responsibility. So they're showing us this like unconditional love. And they're always there when we need them. So those are like kind of like the main things that you might think of when you think about, “Okay, well, what do pets give me on a daily basis?” Those are kind of the main things. But the unconditional love of a pet can do more than just keep us company, right? [00:02:35] PF: Yeah, it's a constant return on our investment, because it's giving us something emotionally. [00:02:41] BD: Right. Yeah. And that's really like where we get into – I kind of call it like the four benefits of pets in our lives. And it crosses a couple of different boundaries, but we have mental health, and mood boosting, grounding. And that is like connected to like outdoors. Physical health, which, of course is connected to exercise. And then socialization. So those are like the four main benefits I think that animals uniquely give us. [00:03:09] PF: That's cool. Can we dig into each of those just a little bit? [00:03:11] BD: Absolutely. Yeah. [00:03:13] PF: Because I noticed mental health is first. Because, as a therapist, I guess that is always going to be forefront for you. But I thought that's really cool, because we don't think about the mental health improvements we get from pets. [00:03:23] BD: Oh, yeah. I mean, it's estimated that 68% of US households have a pet. And I think that that number is growing, especially given the circumstances that we're in with COVID. I think a lot more people are bringing animals into their home that weren't able to do so before. So I love that you're having this conversation about the relationships that we have with our pets. And I think what better way to really honor the love for your pet than to have a day where we literally are talking about and spreading the message that owning a pet will change your life in more ways than just joy and love. And I really believe that the better we understand that human animal bond, the more we can use it to improve people's lives. So thinking of mental health, just off the top of my head, like interacting with animals has been shown to decrease levels of cortisol. So we're going to get kind of scientific here. [00:04:21] PF: We thought so. [00:04:21] BD: I know it’s your jam. You love that. But cortisol is the body's natural stress hormone. So just by virtue of interacting with our pets on a daily basis, we're decreasing that, which is awesome. But it's also really cool to know that if you sit there and pet your dog, your cat, whatever your pet is, for 15 minutes, that you're literally releasing all of the feel good hormones into your body. So you're sitting there. You're petting Morocco. You're petting Josie. 15 minutes. You're releasing oxytocin, prolactin and serotonin all into your body just by petting your, dog which I feel like is so cool. [00:05:02] PF: Yeah, that's amazing. Because there's not other ways to get it that easily, I don't think. [00:05:09] BD: No, I don't think so either. And I think like just thinking about being able to pet your dog and really hokes your body into that relaxed state. This is also super helpful in lowering your blood pressure. So it’s cool to think of like our dogs and our cats can lower our blood pressure. And I also realized, too, that you asked about mental health, and I kind of tiptoed into physical health. But even if we're just thinking about stress, like stress is mental health, right? And so these animals that we used to associate in the past with keeping outdoors, right? Animals weren't really considered in the past to be in home companions to humans. And now we have this understanding that animals in our pets can provide so much more to us than just having this fun dog to run around within the yard. They live in our homes, and they literally are bringing so much into our lives and nurturing our mental health, our physical health, just our overall well-being on a daily basis. And so not only do pets have the potential to decrease our stress, but they can help improve, like we were just talking about, our heart health. Like that's incredible. [00:06:25] PF: Yeah. And I think about how many times a day I laugh because of my dogs. And we know that laughter is so important and so cathartic. We simply don't do it enough. And even on days when it doesn't feel like there's a lot of things in the outside world to laugh at, they're going to make me laugh. They are going to deliver joy no matter what else is going on. [00:06:46] BD: Yeah. And like that deep belly laugh too, right? [00:06:50] PF: Yeah. [00:06:50] BD: But that goes back to those feel good hormones. And that's something that we're experiencing on a daily basis with our pets that I think it's very easy to take for granted or just not even realize. [00:07:01] PF: Yeah. Yeah, that's true. And so what about grounding? Because grounding is something I love. It's so important, and we don't get enough of this. And can you talk a little bit about what it is and why it's so important for our physical and emotional well-being? [00:07:17] BD: Yeah. Well, I also love to talk about grounding, because I think mindfulness is kind of inherent in the work that I do. And it's what I always try to help my clients with. But I really love to talk about how pets are our teachers. I think about most of the life lessons that I've learned in my life, especially from just the animals in our rescue, they've all come from dogs. They've all come from the animals that I've met in my life. And especially in the compassion fatigue for animal care professionals work that I do, I really stressed the importance of what our animals can teach us. And I think that they model resiliency to us, to humans, in a way that no one else can. I mean, even if you just think of like Josie and Morocco's story. [00:08:02] PF: Right, right. [00:08:04] BD: Like the resilience behind your dogs, and just where they've come from, and who they are now, and how interesting, and amazing, and loving they are. So there's the resiliency in that. And I also think that they have this beautiful way of teaching as mindfulness that no book can really do or no like Buru can. But they teach us like the cheesy saying, like, “Every day is a gift,” right? That is like the ethos, especially for dogs. And I'm not minimizing cats, birds and all the other pets out there that people have. But like – [00:08:36] PF: Have the hate mail, please. [00:08:38] BD: Yeah, no hate mail. No. Cats are hilarious, because I think that they just have this way of like just navigating life. Doing exactly what they want to do with no shame. [00:08:49] PF: Right. They’ll just give you that look that's like, “You're not going to do anything about it.” [00:08:53] BD: Yeah. But, yeah, our pets teach us that living each day is a gift, and living our lives with loving presence. And I love thinking about that phrase, loving presence. Because I think animals know that the ultimate point of life is to enjoy it, right? Like that is why we're here. And I think playing with our pets can take our mind away from problems, take our mind away from daily stressors, and really place this in the here and now. And that is literally like mindfulness 101, the here and now, and embracing the sacred pause. Tara Brach talks a lot about the sacred pause. And I think just that idea that truly living in the moment is such a huge gift that they give us. [00:09:40] PF: Yeah. And sometimes we might get in the mindset of feeling like it's frivolous to go play. But there is something very essential about that kind of frivolity and that kind of bonding that's taking place when you are playing, and the kind of joy that it's bringing to you. [00:09:55] BD: Yeah. And even just thinking about that, like physical nature of that, too. Physically, our animals encourage us to move. They are often why we have a connection with the outdoors, which I do think connects to that idea of grounding too, being outside, having our feet on the earth and experiencing life outside of our home. And even on days that we don't want to move, right? Like we don't want to get out of bed. Life is too much. And I the past two years with COVID, it has been this way for a lot of people, just the idea of like waking up and having to face another day in the middle of a pandemic. But especially dogs, they make us move. [00:10:41] PF: Yeah. [inaudible 00:10:41]. [00:10:42] BD: Yeah, yeah. I have to get out of bed every morning. I have to take my dogs for a walk. They need that. They need that to live and to enjoy life. And they really motivate us to play and seek adventure. So going back to that cultivation of joy that you were talking about and playing. [00:11:02] PF: And then like you said, it forces us to be in nature. And even if your nature is in the city, and all you're seeing is a tree at some point. But that is so healthy. And that's so good for our mental health and our physical well-being to just get outside and be present in nature for even 10 or 15 minutes. [00:11:20] BD: Yeah. Stopping. Smelling the roses. [00:11:24] PF: Yeah. Picking up the poop. [00:11:25] BD: Yeah. Stopping, taking a pause with the fire hydrant, whatever you need to do to be connected to the outside world. But even just like hiking, going to the park, walking or running through the neighborhood. For me, specifically, I love to do dog agility, and maybe even traveling. Going somewhere long distance. Packing up your animals and getting out of town. And that is something that I think is an amazing, unique thing to be able to do. And, I think, also in thinking about this, this really promotes human socialization. I think – Yeah, like, we often talk about animal socialization, right? But animals equally give us that gift as well. And being able to go out and do things with your pets and meet other humans. I think, you, I love hearing you talk about all of the people that you've met through walking your dogs. [00:12:24] PF: Right, right. That's the thing. We've told people who had like, say, they moved to Nashville, and they have trouble meeting people. We’re like, “Get a dog.” You will meet everybody. You will meet more people than you actually want to meet, because it's such a draw. And I did. I've met so many people and made lasting friendships with them because I was out there walking Archie. And it's pretty incredible. [00:12:46] BD: Yeah, I love that story. And like, for me, for agility. I've met so many people. And I see it's predominantly women that are doing agility. And I think it creates this community. They all do competitions together. They will travel together doing things with their dogs, and they're just active, and happy, and laughing, and enjoying life vicariously through and with their animals. [00:13:13] PF: Yeah. I’d say what a tremendous way to walk through life is to – When you really recognize the value of that animal companion and can really cherish it and enjoy it. I'm going to be right back with more of my conversation with Brittany. But I wanted to talk for just a moment about how to make your world a safer place. The online world can be an unpredictable one. And while we'd like to think that we're always safe, that isn't necessarily the case. As we spend more of our lives online, we increasingly find ourselves thinking twice before clicking on a link or opening an email. Or we might be worried about getting scammed hacked, or even falling prey to malware or identity theft. The good news is, there's great real time protection available for you and your family. When you use the browser extension, Guardio, you can do your thing online with complete confidence that every click is safe. You can run a free security scan right now to see what threats are on your browser. And then if you're interested in their protection, it 20% off your plan when you sign up at guard.io/livehappynow. That's guard.io/livehappynow. And now, let's get back to my conversation with Brittany Derrenbacher and learn more about the many gifts our pets give to us. One thing that you do that I find so important is the work that you're doing with – You have an emotional support dog, and you're helping others deal with trauma with a pet. Can you talk about how that works and kind of some of the work that you're doing? [00:14:49] BD: Yeah. This is probably, like you said, my favorite topic to discuss, because I really get to see firsthand how much animals can help humans in a handful of supportive ways regarding mental health. I love to use animals in therapy. We have a lot of special needs dogs that I think uniquely are able to teach other people lessons and teach them like really cool things about being imperfectly perfect, right? [00:15:17] PF: Right. [00:15:19] BD: And there are therapy animals, emotional support dogs, service dogs, psychiatric service dogs, seeing eye dogs. Like I feel like I could go on and on. Like physical rehabilitation. Animals that visit hospitals to visit children that are recovering and going through chemo treatments for cancer. There are therapy dogs as crisis intervention after traumatic events. This is something that I'm really specifically interested in, because I think it's an incredible service that is available that most people don't know about. And that's that trained dog handler teams are called to sites of crisis and provide comfort, and provide stress relief, and emotional support for those that have been affected by natural disasters or mass shootings. For example, there's the Tree of Life synagogue shooting. They brought in a team of handlers and their dogs to provide support. This happened at Sandy Hook as well, and Virginia Tech massacre. But there's really some wonderful research surrounding this topic. And I think that a section of human animal interaction of the American Psychological Association is really doing an amazing job of presenting on these topics and bringing awareness of understanding about the human animal interaction. And I think, for us specifically, in the work that I do, going back to Violet, she is a 40-pound bulldog with hydrocephalus. [00:16:52] PF: Okay, tell us real quick what hydrocephalus is for people who don't know. [00:16:55] BD: Yeah. So hydrocephalus is literally water on the brain. And it is an accumulation of that fluid that has nowhere to go. And so you'll kind of see like a dome-shaped skull on the animal's head. And this is a condition that our rescue is very passionate about. It happens to humans as well. And a lot of times, dogs can have mild symptoms and live really long, beautiful lives. And sometimes it is a hospice situation where we give them the best life that they can for as long as possible. Violet has very mild hydrocephalus. So she is doing beautifully. She's not on any medication, and she is just absolutely wonderful. And again, like has that resiliency and is able to share such a beautiful story. But yeah, she visits nursing homes, senior memory care facilities, college campuses in the therapy room with me. And one of her favorite people to visit is a 101-year-old Holocaust survivor. [00:17:56] PF: Oh, that's so cool. [00:17:56] BD: Yeah, that is incredible. He loves it. I think he's able to really like tap into this childlike joy that he hasn't been able to experience in a long time. And one of the first stories that he told my husband, when Violet went to visit, was that it reminded him so much of his childhood dog. And so now, when Violet goes to visit, like it is expected, like, “Where's violet? When will she be here?” So yeah. [00:18:22] PF: That's fantastic. So we know that pets give us so much. Like they just give and give. And even when we don't treat them well, and we don't treat them as well as we should, they are still loving and they give to us. So when we're looking at Love Your Pet Day, what can we do to be better pet parents? How can we better return that kind of affection and meet the needs of our pets? [00:18:47] BD: I love that you asked this, because I think that we really owe it to our pets to give back to them as they give to us. That has really been like my goal in life, especially with rescue work, is to try to give back as much as possible to these animals. But I think it's also important to even just raise that as a question, right? Like we shouldn't just be asking what animals can do for us. We should also be asking what we can do in return for them. And I really do believe that the most important thing that we can do is constantly provide that love and stability. Patience. Patience is really key, right? [00:19:24] PF: Yeah. And not always easy. [00:19:25] BD: Yeah, exactly. And positive reinforcement. I also like to tell people, like give them their time. Stop rushing them on the walks. [00:19:35] PF: Yeah, this is a great topic. And that's something that you and I have talked about. And I want to dig into that a little bit more, because that is so important, and it's easy for us to forget. So like can you talk about that just a little bit? Like how can we learn to be more mindful of giving them their time and making those walks their time? [00:19:55] BD: Yeah. And I think that's where we can really embrace the tools that they teach us of mindfulness and being present, like taking that deep breath and saying, “Okay, I'm going to leave the house and really be in the here and now with my dog because this is their jam. This is literally what dogs are on this earth for, is to roam, and sniff, and explore, and enjoy their life.” And how many times do you – And I'm guilty of this. But how many times are you out and you see people really pulling their dogs along and they're trying to sniff the fire hydrant? They're trying to sniff the grass? And they're like, “Come on, come on, come on, let's go.” Imagine being in HomeGoods and you are in the pillow aisle, right? You're looking at those soft throws, and then someone's behind you like nudging you on like, “Come on, come on. Let's go, let's go. Hurry up. Hurry up. Hurry up.” Why would we want to do that and deprive our animals of that joy, and being able to do something that they're just like so excited and pumped to do? I mean, that is literally [inaudible 00:20:58]. [00:21:00] PF: Yeah, yeah, because I've tried to get really thoughtful in terms of when I don't take my phone with me when we go on walks anymore. And that makes a big difference. And when we were in Nashville, and we would see – At the dog park, like see people. And their dogs out there running around, and they're just on their phone. And it’s like, “Oh, my gosh, you're missing out on this whole opportunity to play and interact before you go lock your dog up in an apartment again.” So that's one thing. I've ditched the phone on the walks. And I really tried to take it. Like when they stop and are sniffing, it's like really use it a time to take a breath and really like start looking at my surroundings. Like let me be as inquisitive as they are about what does the air smell like today? And what is the sky doing? And it really makes a huge difference in resetting your day when you go back to your office. [00:21:50] BD: Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like literally doing a body scan in nature with your dog, right? And I love that you mentioned putting the phone away and just, again, incorporating that loving presence that we talked about earlier. I think, for me, uniquely, I'm often having the conversation on the other side with people because I specialize in pet loss grief. And I often am having conversations with people about what they wish they had done, and that they would do anything to be back in those moments with their animals. And so I think that's something that's important to keep in mind, too, is like really allowing ourselves to enjoy these moments when they're given to us and be present, and just connect with our animals, and just embrace the beauty of life, and not be stuck in a situation in the future where we are analyzing this should have, would have, could haves. [00:22:46] PF: Right. Yeah. Because I know some times we're given notice that we're losing a pet. And sometimes it happens very quickly. And I've had it go both ways. And I had one that I lost very quickly, and it was like, “Oh, my gosh, if I had known that was my last walk with her, I would have walked for an hour.” I just would not have stopped. [00:23:06] BD: Endlessly. Yeah. [00:23:07] PF: Yeah. And so I think that's a great mindset to have. Not that, “Oh, my pet is going to die.” But like I have to look at every moment I have, every chance I have to interact with them as a valuable one. [00:23:18] BD: Yeah. And I think like now there's science behind it, right? There're so many studies that have been done showing what animals can do for us, just reducing the loneliness and increasing the social support, boosting our moods. Literally saving lives in regards to depression and grief. And we are given an opportunity every day to embrace all of those unique gifts and qualities that animals can give us. And like why would we not embrace that and soak it up every chance? [00:23:50] PF: That's right. That's terrific. So yeah, so we have this one day where we'll talk about Love Your Pet Day. But I think it's a great practice to be able to enter every day as Love Your Pet Day. So what would be like your advice? How do we keep that top of mind so that we really do change that relationship with our pet? [00:24:12] BD: Yeah. I really think just embracing that animals don't ask for much in life, and are the gifts that keep on giving. And they also teach us to be better humans, right? They teach us to navigate life in a smarter, more beautiful way. And so just continuing to talk about how awesome life is with animals and how amazing the human animal bond is. That's what I love to talk about, is the bond that we have with our animals. It's just so incredible. And it's unlike anything in life. And even just having conversations like this where maybe someone will listen to this podcast and say, “You know what? I'm going to go to my nearest shelter, and I'm going to adopt a dog today, because I want to like live life with this kind of joy.” Like that is a unique gift. And that is a message worth spreading. [00:25:08] PF: That's excellent. Brittany, you always have so much to say about pets, and you're doing such incredible work with humans and animals. So we're going to, of course, have our landing page and let them learn more about you and where they can find out about some of the work that you're doing. But thank you. Thank you for coming back and talking pets with us. [00:25:25] BD: Yeah, thank you. [OUTRO] [00:25:30] PF: That was Britney Derrenbacher, talking about how pets benefit us and what we can do to enrich their lives. If you'd like to learn more about Brittany and the work that she's doing, just visit our website at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all new episode. And until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Overcoming Toxic Positivity With Whitney Goodman [INTRODUCTION]   [00:00:02] PF: Welcome to Episode 348 of Live Happy Now. We all know that positivity is good for us, except when it isn't. And today's guest is going to teach us how to tell the difference. I'm your host, Paula Felps. And this week, I'm joined by Whitney Goodman, the radically honest psychotherapist and founder of the Collaborative Counseling Center in Miami. Whitney is the author of the new book, Toxic Positivity: Keeping It Real in a World Obsessed with Being Happy. She's here to talk about what toxic positivity is, what it does to us, and how to manage it in ourselves and others. So let's find out what she has to say. [INTERVIEW] [00:00:40] PF: Whitney, welcome to Live Happy Now. [00:00:42] WG: Thank you so much for having me. [00:00:44] PF: Well, this is a terrific topic for us, because it's something we're starting to hear a lot about. And it can be confusing because of course, we always think of positivity as being a good thing. I mean we are Live Happy. So of course, we love positivity. But your book gives so much great insight into toxic positivity. And to kick off the conversation, can you explain to us what toxic positivity is, and then tell us how it's different from healthy positivity? [00:01:15] WG: So toxic positivity denies an emotion and tells us that we should suppress it. And when we use toxic positivity, we're basically telling ourselves and other people that this emotion shouldn't exist, it's wrong. And that we can try really hard to eliminate it entirely. And I really look at toxic positivity as being the unrelenting pressure to be happy all the time no matter what the circumstances are. And when we compare that to healthy positivity, healthy positivity is when we're able to make space for reality and hope, right? So we can recognize the value of seeing the good, but allow people to arrive there at their own pace and to reach their own conclusions rather than sort of like pushing this on them. [00:02:05] PF: And you had your own journey with toxic positivity, which you described very well in your book. Well, when did you start see it becoming more prevalent in other people? [00:02:16] WG: So I think I didn't really realize what it was when I was experiencing it. Especially as women, I think we're used to being told like to smile and to be happy. And there's definitely a pressure to appear a certain way. And after I became a therapist, though, I noticed that a lot of my clients were complaining about this behind closed doors, but they felt like a very similar pressure to show up in the outside world. And I was like, “Wow, I'm not the only one that feels like this. Everybody else is kind of feeling like this is a little bit uncomfortable.” [00:02:50] PF: What do you think is driving that right now? Because I have a friend who's a therapist, and she said she has seen it so much in her practice. And I'm just seeing little things pop up about it here and there. So what's going on with making us aware of it and what's pushing it forward? [00:03:08] WG: I had an article that popped up on my phone today that said like, “10 ways to be happy during the pandemic.” And I was like, “Wow, what an ironic title.” And I think that really speaks to this whole thing that's going on that you're talking about. That we're under so much stress, especially over the last couple of years that it sort of feels like you have to be happy. Keep it all together so that you can keep working so that people won't be upset with you, so that you can be seen as like a good person. And it's becoming so overwhelming for people. I think everyone's really hitting their breaking point of like, “I just can't pretend anymore. It's too heavy.” [00:03:50] PF: And there's got to be some harm involved in faking it. We have all heard the whole thing about fake it till you make it. But there's also a real harm in suppressing or denying those emotions. Can you tell us what it's doing to us? Because you're seeing it in your office every day. [00:04:07] WG: Yeah, absolutely. And I talk about this a lot in the book that suppressing emotions does not work. They typically just intensify when we suppress them. And we see this reflected in the research that if I tell myself, “I can't be angry. I need to get rid of this feeling. I'm going to cover it up.” It just ends up coming out in another way and usually 10 times worse. And sometimes we're not aware of how that is happening. The other thing that happens is that it really makes our relationships very difficult, because if I don't feel comfortable sharing, then neither does anybody else. And we can't connect over a lot of these shared difficult experiences, which is really what makes relationships feel closer. And we end up feeling like alone and isolated in the end and often very like weird or messed up because we're having feelings that we don't see other people experiencing. [00:05:04] PF: And as you mentioned, the pandemic really did exacerbate things. And is part of that because people were at home. They're not feeling great. But then when they get on a zoom call, or they're talking to somebody, it's like, “Yeah, it's all good.” And they don't even have that one on one interaction that someone else can read that things aren't the way that they're saying they are. [00:05:26] WG: Exactly. And with the pandemic, I think one of the ways people coped was by trying to pretend that everything was normal. And this is denial. It's a coping skill, right? And especially a lot of like bosses and leaders that I heard from my own clients, like they were almost demanding that their workforce show up with a positive attitude, because it was too heavy for them to deal with the reality of what was actually going on. And we see this a lot, especially at work. [00:05:59] PF: Yeah, so let's address the leadership aspect of this for a minute. And then I want to talk about it from a parenting standpoint as well. But as a leader, what can you do to make sure that you're not forcing positivity upon your people, and that you're really hearing what they need? [00:06:15] WG: There's a lot of ways that I think we can deal with disruption, with people being upset in the workplace, complaints, things like that, that are really effective. So just showing genuine like interest in your employees’ lives is really important. Asking questions. Showing that you care about them more than just what they can provide for you. And showing empathy. There's a there's a lot of studies that show that people really recall when their boss has been sympathetic versus unsympathetic. And also, really emphasizing the meaningfulness and the importance of the work, people tend to perform better and feel better when there is some type of value within the work. And also just treating people with respect, trust, integrity, all of these really normal human things that I think sometimes get pushed to the wayside in favor of like productivity or numbers. [00:07:10] PF: And did that become more difficult for bosses during the time when you've got a lot – You've got remote workers now, and you're not doing that one on one interaction. So is it easier for them to kind of not see them as a human, but see them as a performance machine? [00:07:26] WG: Sure. And we have to remember that the bosses are also dealing with all the same things as their employees during this time. And I know, I felt that as a therapist, it was this weird moment of like I'm living through the same problem as my clients. And a boss might feel that with their employees that it's like they're under so much pressure as well. That it's hard to always be on. And I think the more humanity we show and feel like, “You know what? I'm scared. I'm dealing with this too,” the easier it is to connect. [00:07:57] PF: And so what about parents, because their kids might be going through the same thing. Or they might even unknowingly or unconsciously be promoting toxic positivity by saying, “Just cheer up. It'll be fine.” So how is it different when we're dealing with our children and helping them get through this? [00:08:14] WG: Yeah, there's such a cultural expectation of like, “I just want my kid to be happy,” right? Or all I care about is your happiness. And so we start instilling this in kids from a young age, and it makes sense. Like happy kids are easy kids. And so parents, I think, have to be careful to not overvalue one emotion, like happiness, and try to encourage kids to show a wide array of emotions and model those emotions themselves, because they all have value and meaning. If we felt happy all the time, we would get nothing done. And it really wouldn't be that great of a life, to be honest. [00:08:55] PF: What are some of the signs that we can see in ourselves that we might be falling into that toxic positivity trap. [00:09:02] WG: So some of the biggest examples are when you are trying to talk yourself out of feeling something, being upset about something. That's legitimate. And some examples of this would be like I shouldn't be over this by now. Or I should be happy. I should be grateful. I know I shouldn't complain about this. But it's like adding these caveats before we talk about something that is upsetting us, or that is a legitimate issue in our lives. [00:09:30] PF: So what should we be doing instead? [00:09:33] WG: So instead, I recommend that people try to really get to the root of what's going on and validate their emotions and also figure out what they need. So I talked about this in the book that we need to figure out if we need like validation or a kick in the butt, right? And sometimes we can over validate ourselves and get stuck. And then on the other end of the spectrum, we aren't giving ourselves any validation. We're just using toxic positivity and we don't get anywhere. So I recommend that people look at like, “Okay, what am I feeling? Where might this be coming from? Is there something that I need right now?” And that might mean more encouragement? It also might mean more rest? And that's going to differ depending on the situation. [00:10:18] PF: And how do we work through that? Do you suggest like they journal it? Or how do we unpack what we're actually feeling as opposed to what we should be feeling, or what we think we should be feeling? [00:10:30] WG: So whatever you're feeling, it’s just a response to either like incoming stimuli or something you've been more comfortable feeling. So I want people to kind of approach their feelings with just like a neutral view, right? There's not anything like good or bad. Then you can start to figure out like what is this like in my body? How do I experience this emotion? Then kind of look at where might this be coming from? And that requires us to take inventory of our day. And sometimes it's that we had an interaction with someone that set us off. It could also just be that like, “you didn't sleep well, last night, and you need to drink more water.” So trying to help people get in touch with like what do emotions feel like for them? How do they typically label them? And what are those emotions telling them? [00:11:23] PF: So it definitely just takes a little bit of getting still with yourself and really going inward, which a lot of people don't want to do right now. [00:11:30] WG: Exactly. And I don't blame them. It's really uncomfortable. It's hard. [00:11:36] PF: Yeah, yeah, it is a lot of hard work. And because we've been through so much, like as you noted in the last couple of years, I think there's a lot that we just were like, “Ugh! I am –” It's like that closet door that it's like you've put all your junk in and it's like everything's just going to come falling out and make a big mess. So I don’t want to do it. [00:11:53] WG: Exactly. And sometimes we do have to go into survival mode. There were points of the pandemic where I was advising people to do that. And it's not a time to unpack like your deepest traumas and emotions when you're in the middle of a crisis. It can be too much. But we also don't have to use toxic positivity to get through that. It's okay to say like, “I'm just surviving right now. I need to get through this. And I'm going to deal with whatever I'm feeling when I have the time and the space to do that.” [00:12:25] PF: Yeah, that's excellent advice. And obviously, sometimes, it's not just us. Like we can accept that for ourselves and say, “Alright, I am just going to do my bare minimum, and make it through this.” So what about when the people we're talking to are the ones with the toxic positivity? And first, you give some excellent examples of phrasing and responses that we might not recognize as toxic positivity. Can you talk about that? Some of the keywords, if you will, that are toxic responses, versus what we really need to hear? [00:13:00] WG: Yeah. So I think it's important to note that positivity becomes toxic when it's used with the wrong people at the wrong time and about the wrong topics. So some of these phrases can be okay in certain situations. But they become toxic when they're not helpful for those people. So some of them might be like, “Everything happens for a reason.” “You need to be positive to get through this.” Or “God will never give you more than you can handle,” can be a typical one for people, especially if they're not religious. So thinking about some of these phrases that we really hear very often, right? Or like, “Be grateful. It's not worse. At least it wasn't X.” We’re trying to put a positive spin on something that isn't positive. [00:13:49] PF: So how do you even respond when people do that? Because I know, I've been in those situations. And my response is usually just like stare at them with an open mouth. Like you did not just say that. After my father died, I came back from – I'd been off for about four days and went back to work. I was working at a newspaper at a time. And my lifestyle editor came up and said, “How was your time away?” And I said, “I was at my dad's funeral.” She goes, “Yeah, but it had to feel good to get out of the office.” [00:14:17] WG: Oh my gosh, yeah. [00:14:18] PF: And it's like, “No. That's not helping.” [00:14:21] WG: What a silver lining. Oh, my goodness. [00:14:24] PF: So how do people deal with when someone responds and it's not helping? [00:14:30] WG: I think it's important to decide what role this person plays in your life. So there have been times where people at like the grocery store say something like that to me, and I might be like, “Thanks,” and walk away. That's an option. If there are people that are close to you that you want to teach, I think it can be helpful to say, “I know you're really trying to help, and that is not a helpful thing to say.” Or to even respond and say, “Actually, it was really hard.” With your example, my dad passed away and it was a sad time even though I was out of the office. And really trying to like teach people what is helpful to you, especially those repeat offenders. You can say like, “When you say these things, it's not helpful. I would really appreciate if you could just listen to me or help me with dinner.” Giving people other suggestions. Because most of the time they think they're helping. That's the really like tricky thing about this. [00:15:27] PF: How do we kind of educate people to pull them out of that and really teach them what we need in terms of support? [00:15:34] WG: Yeah, I think that's the central message of my book, is that these people are not toxic. They're just kind of repeating the same thing over and over, like you said. And so we can teach people that it's okay to not feel happy all the time. That it's actually normal to have negative emotions. And also offer them concrete strategies to help us in the future. So for some people, that may mean, “It would really be great if you could give me a hug, or if you could cook dinner, or if I could just talk about the problem without getting any advice,” and try to be very deliberate and direct about the type of help that you need. Because if we don't tell people, we can't really expect them to know exactly what would be helpful to us. [00:16:21] PF: Right. And sometimes we don't know what we need. So what do we do at that point? Other than read your book, which then we find out. But when we're not really sure what we need, but we just know that I don't need you telling me I should feel better, you know? [00:16:37] WG: Yeah. And that's enough. If that's the one thing that you know in that moment, it's okay to say, “This really isn't helping me right now. And I don't know what kind of help I need right now. But when I figure it out, I'll let you know.” Because I know that overwhelming feeling when you're struggling of like, “Gosh! How am I supposed to figure out what I need and then tell someone.” And you might be in a place where you're not ready to do that. And so it's okay to just tell someone like, “Hey, this isn't helpful,” and stop there. And get to a place where you can kind of learn what might be helpful for you. And that takes time. [00:17:14] PF: And part of it is just releasing the feeling that you should feel a certain way. And one thing that you talked about that I found so interesting is the shame cycle. And I wanted you to talk about why does toxic positivity create a shame cycle? And what does that look like for people? [00:17:35] WG: Yeah. So whenever we use some of these things against ourselves that I talked about, like, “I know I should be grateful.” “I should be more positive.” “I shouldn't be feeling this way.” It creates a feeling of shame, because you're essentially gaslighting yourself. You're telling yourself like, “I know you're feeling this thing, but you shouldn't be feeling it. And I need you to stop right now.” And this makes us feel isolated, alone, and really unable to manage our own emotions. And so we kind of like retreat into ourselves with this shame. What would be more effective is if we could say like, “I'm having this feeling right now. It's legitimate. It's real. And I know that other people have felt like me, too. I know that this is okay to feel this way. And I'm going to get myself through it in the way that works for me, and that isn't harmful to me or to someone else.” [00:18:27] PF: What does it do if we stay in that cycle of shame? What is it emotionally and even physically do to us? [00:18:35] WG: Well, it's exhausting, right? If you constantly feel like you need to be performing, or then it makes you a bad person if you succumb to that negativity. You're always going to feel less than and like you're not doing enough. It also ties back in with the emotional suppression that we were talking about that it's likely going to start impacting your sleep. It can impact your relationships. It can impact your mood throughout the day. It leads to an increased likelihood for things like depression and anxiety. There's a lot of negative consequences to excessive emotional suppression and shaming yourself for feeling. [00:19:13] PF: So what's the quickest way that you advise someone to get out of that when they're doing that “I should” and they're throwing themselves into that spiral of shame? Do you have any tips for getting out of that quickly, kind of like jettison out your little escape hatch? [00:19:28] WG: Yeah. The most effective thing I think is using the word and. So if we use the example of you've just lost somebody, they've passed away, you can say something like, “I am feeling sad, and I have other people around me.” If you're really someone that's prone to going into that positive mindset or the toxic positivity, trying to name your feeling that you might typically classify as negative. Add the word and. And then you can say something good, or neutral, or positive about your life. And what that does is it allows us in our brain to recognize both the good and the distressing, and make room for both and not deny one in replacing the other. [00:20:16] PF: Yeah, that makes so much sense. And another thing that I really liked is you talk about complaining. And obviously, nobody wants to be around someone who complains all the time. But you have great news for people who like to complain. Because as you say, that there are certain benefits to complaining if it's done right. So this is a two part question, is one, we're going to talk about why it's beneficial. And then I'd like you to kind of school us on how to complain properly. [00:20:46] WG: Yeah, you're right. Complaining gets a bad reputation, right? But complaining does show you what is important. It can help create change in the world. It also helps you get feedback from other people, process your emotions. It's also one of the main ways that we gain sympathy, attention, or express dissatisfaction. So complaining has a lot of use, and eliminating it entirely would actually not be very helpful at all. But you're right, that we can get stuck in our complaining and make it very ineffective. So I recommend that when people are complaining, they use facts and logic. They know their ideal outcome, and they understand who has the ability to make that happen. And what the research shows us is that when we use those three criteria, complaining ends up being quite helpful and effective. [00:21:41] PF: That's awesome. Yeah, we should all write that down, like those three little things. So every time we start, it's like we can check it off. Make sure we're doing it right. Because I love that. I love that aspect of it. So I know that we're running out of time. But I've got a couple more things. One, I really want to talk about how do we learn to balance negativity and positivity. Because both of those things are important to have in our lives. And either other too much one or the other isn't good for us. So how do we learn to strike that balance? [00:22:14] WG: I think we really go back to that word and that I was just talking about and trying to allow ourselves to recognize both and make space for both. And also realizing what situations we might benefit from a little bit more positivity or that kick in the butt that I talked about, and what situations are really just hard, and there is no silver lining. I talk about like grief, infertility, parenting, all these really difficult topics where positivity might not be that helpful in some of the situations. And so recognizing in your life, like, “Is this a season where I just need to ride this out? Or is this a time where a different attitude might be helpful to me? [00:23:01] PF: That's really wise to look at it that way. And this book has so much great information. It's really very timely, and very thoughtful, very well written. And what is it that you hope that your readers take away when they put this book down for the final time? [00:23:20] WG: I hope that everyone who reads this book feels human after reading it, and that they're allowed to feel a wide variety of emotions. And I hope it gets people talking to each other about what they're going through, instead of hiding. [00:23:35] PF: Yeah, it definitely has the power to do that. As I said, it's something it's so well written and really takes us on this journey. So I appreciate that you wrote it. And I thank you for taking the time to sit down and talk with us about it today. [00:23:48] WG: Of course. Thank you so much. This is great. [OUTRO] [00:23:55] PF: That was Whitney Goodman, talking about toxic positivity. If you'd like to learn more about Whitney and her new book, Toxic Positivity: Keeping It Real in a World Obsessed with Being Happy, or follow her on social media, visit our website at livehappy.com and click on the podcast link. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all new episode. And until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]