Search Results for: community

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: What Wolves Can Teach Us With Cynthia Heisch [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:08.6] PF: Welcome to Happiness Unleashed, with your host, Brittany Darrenbacher, presented by Live Happy. For this episode, we’re going to take a walk on the wild side. For years, wolves have been revered as spirit animals, and in many spiritual traditions, their belief to help people connect with their instincts and inner wisdom. At the Sedona Wolf Sanctuary in Arizona, rescued wolves on sacred land create a healing experience for those who have experienced trauma or who are looking for renewing spiritual experience. In this episode, Brittany talks with Cynthia Heisch, Founder and CEO of the Sanctuary, to talk about how and why wolves can help us heal. Let’s have a listen. [INTERVIEW]   [0:00:49.9] BD: Hi Cynthia, welcome to Happiness Unleashed. [0:00:52.5] CH: Hello, thank you so much for having me, Brittany, and team, excited to be here. [0:00:58.4] BD: You know, recently, I was out in Sedona and I came to the sanctuary and I just immediately knew, I’m like, “We have got to get her on the show.” And just not only to talk about your space but also to talk about wolves. You know, this is a topic that when I first got into supporting animal care professionals, I didn’t know that this field of rescue and sanctuary life even existed. So, let’s start off by you telling the listeners what is a wolf sanctuary. [0:01:31.3] CH: Yeah, so a wolf sanctuary is a place where you know, rescued wolves or wolf dogs, or anywhere in between will come to live. There’s a reason why so many wolves and wolf dogs out there end up in sanctuaries. The easiest way that I can explain it is they’re kind of the outcasts of the animal world. If you think about it, they don’t quite fit in a zoo, although, many of them are in zoos. They’re kind of dropouts as private pets and so, they’re trying to find their place in today’s modern world because even in nature, they’re getting pushed out, right? And it starts with a lot of the misconceptions that people have about wolves in general and even owning wolves or wolf dogs as pets, and why that often goes horribly wrong but that’s why there’s such a need out there for sanctuaries, for permanent placements where these animals can live the entirety of their lives. Oftentimes, it is in a nonprofit organization that has dedicated their entire organization to rescuing these wolves but that is what your average wolf sanctuary is built upon. Now, our sanctuary as you know is quite different. We are the only spiritually infused wolf sanctuary in the country, maybe the world, on sacred lands. So, we pair and really focus on pairing that sacred land with the sacred animal and the magic behind that, and I think that’s exactly why you’re talking to me for this purpose. [0:03:09.2] BD: What is wolf medicine? [0:03:11.1] CH: So, wolf medicine is something that, number one, you feel, and it starts with looking at wolves almost the same way the Native Americans did. So, not just as a spirit animal, but as the eyes of spirit, as our greatest teachers. You know, some tribes even saw wolves as like walking gods, and Healing Wolf, who is the creator of this wolf sanctuary originally over 20 years ago, she thought, “If we could have a direct connection with the wolf ourself or at least, be in the presence of them, that would do a lot in terms of helping people to gain a new appreciation of the animal.” Change some of the stereotypes and stigmas that are out there about wolves, starting with the big bad wolf, when we’re young, of course, and also helping people heal or transform, whatever they’re looking to go through. A lot of times, it can be quite an emotional experience for people and that’s really the magic behind it because I think in many ways, wolves bring up our own fears. There are so many fears about wolves in general, in society, in media. As we see, they’re always played out to be the big bad wolf. So, there’s something inherent and almost subconscious about being around wolves that bring up our own fears. So, I think that’s why and I can only speak from experience, why I’ve seen so many people be able to all of a sudden, bam, when they’re around our animals have these transformations. Now, it doesn’t happen for everyone, right? It’s not guaranteed but for those that are ready, a lot of times, they’re able to help us connect to our inner wolf, and really bring to consciousness what are our fears, what is it that we need to transform and transmute in order to move forward. [0:05:07.7] BD: And there’s something so beautifully therapeutic about that. I think that’s what stood out to me, you know, in visiting the space is just it is a therapeutic experience. [0:05:17.6] CH: Right, right, and although I don’t claim to be a therapist on any regard, we get a lot of people in that field, you know, that come here or even people who have tried all other types of traditional methods and therapy and are almost desperate for a solution. People who maybe have gone through animal trauma, you know, like with dogs, or we had one lady who was attacked by a mountain lion, and that was still, you know, affecting her day-to-day. Those sort of methods where it can be quite therapeutic because not just the wolves but as you know, we create a whole experience and we really try to help people tap inward as best as we can on the sacred land in our own ways with the medicine wheels and things of that nature. So, I agree, I think that’s why we see these big, emotional releases, why people say, “This changed my life.” I mean, that’s almost hard for even me to believe, you know? When you hear something like that, you know that’s really doing something. [0:06:24.4] BD: What can people expect to experience and see and witness and be a part of in a wolf experience at the sanctuary? [0:06:33.2] CH: A lot of times, when people first find the wolf sanctuary, I think they just expect, “Okay, maybe we’ll be in there with the wolves.” And I make sure to tell people, we’re not a petting zoo, but rather, it’s an organic experience. So, it’s completely up to the wolves whether or not they decide to come up to you. You know, all the animals that we have are rescues but one reason why this allows to work is because they have all been domesticated to some degree. So, these aren’t just wild feral wolves that are coming up to you, of course, that would never work but because we still selectively pick our pack and have integrated them, that’s what allows for these experiences, where we allow them to go into the enclosures. Now, where the magic happens, where the healing happens that we see is kind of where it’s exceeding their expectations, how when they’re actually face to face with a wolf and it’s coming up to you, that’s when that catalyst of change happens. I mean, you’ve experienced it, where all of a sudden, it’s like, all your emotions can come up. Sometimes, even seeing them through the enclosures before they walk in, I see people have tears in their eyes, and when you ask them, “What’s happening?” They’re like, “I don't know what’s happening.” They almost can’t even put it into words. So, you go into each enclosure but we also integrate the medicine wheels, the ancient medicine wheels that are on the property. It is sacred land, land that is near Montezuma Well. Of course, Sedona is the mecca for healing but the land that we are on has had years and years of, first, starting with the Native Americans, blessing and being a part of the land. It’s surrounded by water and so, the land itself is its own sanctuary, and that’s what’s equally as important and why people can feel the power of the animals, even more so. It’s a portal for catalyst of change and a portal for feeling your own emotions. Just like any other sanctuary is, right? It’s the same thing that we’ve created here and that I’m proud to call now my life’s work and continue from healing wolves. We started it in the very beginning. [0:08:38.7] BD: Yeah, how did you get into this work, how did you make this your life’s work? [0:08:42.4] CH: I had a whole previous career in the corporate world that taught me all sorts of things. I have an MBA and like many people, I came to a point in my life where I was like, “I think I’m meant for something different I don’t know what it is.” So, my partner and I moved to Sedona, we’re Airbnb’ing it and I happen to find this wolf sanctuary. At the time, it was called Medicine Wheel Lodge and was still being ran by Healing Wolf. So, I was obsessed with it, I had to go, I called her every single day until we got a booking. When I went there, she saw me with the wolves and said, “You have a gift.” And I was like, “Really?” And she just saw how well I was able to interact with the animals. Healing Wolf became my mentor, this, you know, legendary woman in the community, this spiritual leader suddenly took me under her wing. And I’ll tell you what, one secret was after that first experience, when I went into the wolf visit myself, I sat in the car, looked at my partner, and was like, “How do we find a place like this?” And some people will say that was pulling it out into the universe, you know, manifesting it, however, you want to call it. It went from arriving there and doing our very first visit was June 2022 to taking over the entire sanctuary, buying the property, the business, everything October 2022. So, yeah, to the logical timeline, that sounds like, “What in the world, how is that even possible?” But to people who are maybe more, like, in the woo and the divine timing and unfolding, they’re like, “Oh, I get it.” [0:10:26.8] BD: You spoke it and so it is. [0:10:29.4] CH: Exactly. So, that’s kind of how it happened and now, it’s an amazing blessing and we get to meet people from all over the world. I get to witness these healings, every single day, and people that are coming from grief. You know, they’ve lost a pet, they lost a loved one, people who are suffering from trauma, like I said, dog trauma is a big one that we get because dogs are everywhere. People who have suffered from PTSD, veterans, the deaf, blind, you name it, we’ve had the opportunity to work with them and it’s just been the best blessing of a lifetime. [0:11:04.6] BD: You’ve talked about you know, misconceptions, you know, a few times already, like, what are common misconceptions when it comes to wolves? [0:11:14.8] CH: The biggest one that is – the biggest problem I would say is that people think it’s okay to have them as pets. Not necessarily, mostly wolves a hundred percent but a lot of times wolf dogs. So, there can be certain percentages of content that a wolf is, like how much wolf is this dog if that makes sense. I tell people that’s like having a tiger as a cat in your house and we really make sure to hone in on that when people come here. Why there are so many in need, and the statistic that we share is over 130,000 are born in this country each year, only 10% make it to the age of two, it’s not because of health reasons or something like that but usually because people think it sounds cool to have one as a pet and then anything is manageable as a baby, as a puppy, right? But as soon as it gets bigger wolves are one of those animals that is often like, “You know what? I’m not trying to do the whole sit-stay-heel thing, I’m not a dog.” I tell people that’s like trying to make a human be a monkey, right? And we will go crazy, it’s the same thing, so that is one of the biggest misconceptions. I think the fear around wolves in general because that’s an important layer too, I think that comes from the way they’ve been portrayed in media but even before that if you think about it, in the wild, wolves are the apex predator just like lions. They don’t naturally have any predators, so when the natives and the first settlers came here, you know, all of a sudden they think they’re at the top but then there’s this animal that is kind of at their level, the natives revered not feared the wolves, right? They say saw them as teachers, they saw them as something to respect and learn from how these wolves are able to operate independently but also have so much care and loyalty to their pack. They saw that as such a beautiful thing but oftentimes, the next layer is that you know, a lot of the settlers came through and saw them as a threat, and then from there on, they became the big bad wolf, they became the figure we see them as in society. So, that’s why here at the Sedona Wolf Sanctuary, we really try to focus on rewiring that in public perception and showing people they aren’t the big bad wolf. That was just a construct that was out there and they’re just trying to exist and be their selves as we all should be. They are living in their truest level of alignment, which is such a beautiful thing and message that we can learn from them. [0:14:02.8] BD: And when I left, I felt a deep reverence for wolf medicine, you know? What would be your biggest hope for people that come to the sanctuary and get to experience this, what do you hope to impart for them when they leave? [0:14:20.9] CH: When they come here, I just hope that they’ll come with an open mind, without any expectations of, “I’m going to pet a wolf” without any expectations of, “I’m going to have this miracle healing, these are going to save me.” But just being open to the experience to receiving because as you know Brittany, we have quite a process that we take people through, and the ones that come and are ready to just kind of drop those expectations and be. Be present and be here in their fullest self, put the phone away, put the stress away for just a minute, that would be my one hope that they would come with because I know they will not leave the same from this experience and for each person, it is a personal experience, you know? I can’t say or read someone’s mind in terms of what area of healing it is that they need. Only they know that or maybe even on a subconscious level but the wolves will feel it. They’ll bring it up to the surface, they’ll point it out for them, and that’s what’s so beautiful about it not just you know, spiritual or emotional healings, literal physical healings. They will point it out quite literally. So, even if they don’t experience something like in the moment, what often happens as well is people will have dreams or visions, days, weeks, months later and suddenly call me and say, “I have to tell you what happened.” “I have to tell you the story.” That’s why we have so many amazing, like almost unreal Google reviews is because of those types of experiences. So, all I would ask and hope for is that whoever feels called to come to the sanctuary is just open and ready to receive because then that’s when the magic can unravel in itself. [0:16:11.1] BD: Is there a particular moment or just something that has happened on the property that you feel comfortable sharing that stands out to you? [0:16:19.3] CH: If I think back to one of the stories that stands out the most, that would be there was this mother that brought her child here and her child, who, this was back when we allowed children by the way, he was about six but when he was about three years old, he got attacked by a dog and it was a pretty bad situation, okay? Well, this kid was completely petrified of dogs and dogs are everywhere, right? People have service dogs, they’re just everywhere, they’re a part of our life. Well, he literally couldn’t function like a normal kid. This mom herself was a counselor, was trained, she did this for a living, and she had tried every other traditional method of healing, of therapy, you name it, to help her child. She came here and I could tell even from the initial phone call that this was kind of a last-ditch effort. She was like, “Maybe the wolves can help my kid.” So, when she came here, I’ll never forget, we did the whole experience and then we’re walking into the enclosure with Thor, the first enclosure, Thor the wolf, he’s coming straight at the kid almost too fast where I almost – I was so close to literally physically jumping in between Thor and the kid. I’m thinking, “He’s coming in way too hot.” But I just sat there and I trusted him like, “Okay, source, you’ve got this, like come on, you’ve got this.” And so, Thor went straight up to the kid and started pointing at his leg, and at the time, that didn’t mean anything to us but the kid was fine. He wasn’t freaking out, he was totally calm. So, I’m like, “Okay, so far so good.” We go through the entire experience and all the different enclosures, meeting all the different animals. And at the end, we were wrapping things up and I walk around the corner and I’ll never forget, I see the mom just bawling. She’s standing next to her child, she’s bawling and she said, “Tell Cynthia what you just told me.” And the kid told me that when Thor first came up to him, Thor, I still get goosebumps saying this, Thor was pointing at his scars through the kid’s pant legs. Like, Thor was like, “Boom-boom-boom” went straight for the bites where he had scars, and after that the kid knew it’s okay, I’m safe. This child, right? Was telling us this and then I start bawling because I was like, “Oh my gosh, that is beyond the physical.” I mean, there’s no other way to explain that and so ever since then, he’s totally fine with dogs, you know? He’s going through life completely normal. You know, people sometimes will have those fears coming here and I know it’s not for everybody every time of course, but for a lot of people who do feel called, I wish they could know, like, miracles happen here. It’s possible, right? If you’re open to it again, and I think the kid was open to it, his mother was open to it and that’s really also what allowed for that to happen. Those are the moments I think back to and I’m like, “Okay, keep going, this is important work.” [0:19:42.1] BD: So, to close out the show, I like to ask everyone to share a story of an animal that has really had an impact in your life, that has done magic or healing, you know, maybe in an unassuming way and just, you know, a story of a special animal that stands out to you. [0:20:01.7] CH: Oh, jeez, the one that I would say right now is, this is a hard one, I think all the wolves have special stories as you know but I think right now would be Eva. When she came here, she kind of had a lot of trauma. She would literally fear pee and poo the second you looked at her, and I remember thinking because I didn’t do the transfer, my partner did, and I remember thinking, “Well, how in the world are we going to do this, you know?” I don't know if she’s ever going to trust us and you have those doubts in your head when you see this animal that’s so petrified, and you just want to give them all the love in the world. Well, I went in there and every single day would just spend time with her over and over, and she went from literally hiding in her den for the first month that we had her in with Thor, to now, jumping all over me, coming up to guests. And so, to me, that’s just a testament of the power of love, the power of patience, how much they can feel and it’s a reciprocal give and take experience, the wolves, and seeing their progress, seeing how they are able to know that. It’s like they know they have a purpose here and they know what they’re here for and they feel the love that we give to them that they’re a part of the sanctuary. They’re a part of this experience and knowing that, and seeing that in action, that’s just – those are the moments that warm my heart the most. [0:21:42.3] BD: They’re incredible. [0:21:43.9] CH: Thank you. [0:21:44.9] BD: Cynthia, thank you so much for coming on the show. [0:21:47.0] CH: Thank you, Brittany, yes. [0:21:47.9] BD: And sharing all the wolves with us and wolf medicine, and I hope that everyone makes a trip to Sedona and books a wolf experience with the Sedona Wolf Sanctuary. I can’t recommend it enough. [0:22:00.5] CH: Thank you. Hope everyone comes and sees us or checks out our website and we would love to connect. Thank you so much. [END OF INTERVIEW]   [0:22:09.0] PF: That was Brittany Darrenbacher, talking with Cynthia Heisch, about the power of wolf medicine. If you’d like to learn more about the Sedona Wolf Sanctuary or follow them on social media, just visit our website at LiveHappy.com and click on the podcast link, and of course, Brittany will be back here next month to talk more about how animals bring us joy, help us heal and can be some of our best teachers. Until then, for everyone at Live Happy, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.   [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: How to Stress Wisely with Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:03] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 476 of Live Happy Now. If you're feeling more stressed than usual these days, you aren't alone. Today, we're going to find out why that is and what you can do about it. I'm your host, Paula Felps. This week, I'm joined by Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe, an author, psychology instructor, and expert on resiliency. Her latest book, Stress Wisely: How to Be Well in an Unwell World, breaks down why the stress of today's fast-paced world is having such a devastating effect on us, both physically and mentally. She's here today to explain how we can manage that stress to become more resilient and even how we can proactively prepare for stress before it happens. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:49] PF: Robyne, thank you so much for joining me on Live Happy Now. [0:00:52] RHD: I am thrilled to spend time with you here, so thank you for the invitation. [0:00:56] PF: I'm excited to have you. I received your book, Stress Wisely, and it is one of the most profound books on stress I have ever read. The time I've spent with this is really more than I would normally spend with a single book, because you approach it in so many different ways. Before we dig into that, tell the listeners what led you to write this book. [0:01:19] RHD: Oh, well, first, thank you for that very generous feedback. My area of research is around human resiliency. I've been really curious. I've been teaching and doing research almost 20 years now on that area. One of the through-line, Paula, that just kept coming to the surface was that persons who were able to work with their stress systems, like people who had strategies to work with their stress system, they were so better positioned to be able to manage life when things went off the rails, or when stressors became really apparent. As I was doing this work on resiliency, I just really felt that calling to be able to say, hey, we got to shine some light and spend some good intention about understanding our nervous system, because that's really going to unlock how we can really, truly be well. [0:02:06] PF: Mm-hmm. One of the things that I love about your approach is it's very knowledgeable and scientific, but it's like talking to a friend. It is really like you, take us by hand, it's like, “Hey, we're going to go on this little journey through this thing called stress.” It's very friendly in the tone. Was that just a natural thing for you to write it that way? [0:02:28] RHD: I feel very fortunate and, again, being in a position where as someone who really struggled with school, so I was not a really super strong student, I really navigated with a lot of challenges academically, until I learned that with my ADHD and learning disabilities that I just process information in a different way. Despite being able to go on and being able to complete multiple degrees and have this really great academic success, something that's always been true to me is I love to share information in a way that resonates with how information lands with me. I'm really not interested in that notion of expertise. I'm interested in allyship, where walk with me and help me understand, because that's the learning that really resonates with me. Again, to be true, to be able to do this work, I felt I wanted to represent it in that similar way. That's why I'm just really appreciative when I hear folks say that, hey, this was a pretty kind approach to be talking about a very complex topic, which is what I really strive to do with how I prepared that material. [0:03:29] PF: A lot of books, or articles that we read about stress, it's like, how to overcome it. It's like, this is something we should beat, which just stresses us out more, because it's like, “I can't. Stress is bigger than I am.” You really take a different approach in that you talk about making stress an ally. [0:03:48] RHD: Absolutely. [0:03:50] PF: Talk about what that looks like when you make stress an ally and how you even begin doing that. [0:03:56] RHD: Yeah. You're absolutely right. Right now, it seems like, everything is going to kill us, right? Stress is one of those things, where they say, 90% of all diseases are associated with high levels of stress. It seems like, it's just permeating every aspect of our well-being and our culture. Then we hear that the remedy is to try and get rid of stress. Where I ran into a bit of just this disconnect was stress is actually our first line of defense. Our stress system is designed to keep us alive. It's not meant to do us this harm. What I really fell into was this notion that the way that we're living our lives very much is going against our biology. When we start to re-imagine that relationship with stress as in like, hey, this is my internal system that's letting me know what's okay and what's not okay, letting me know when do I need to rest? When do I need to focus? When do I need to regroup? Again, when do I need to just find a different way through it? What I really started to get curious about is how do we change that narrative that, again, stress isn't the enemy. It's the doses of cortisol that we're getting on a daily basis that we're now using as our default setting. Our default setting is this sense of urgency that everything's a crisis, and that hustle and that just never enough feeling is really this idea that that's just not sustainable. Instead, learning how do we re-regulate these nervous systems, so we can work in partnership with all of our parts, versus working against ourselves is what we started to think about in this work. [0:05:33] PF: I love that you acknowledge the fact that our bodies were not built for today's world. [0:05:38] RHD: Not even close. [0:05:39] PF: Talk about that. Why do you say that we are not equipped to live in the society we've created? [0:05:45] RHD: Well, I think the biggest one, even just if we come at it from a physiological perspective, our bodies and our brains are not designed to be in this place of omnipresence. What I mean by that is we're not meant to have these 18, 20-hour days where we don't have opportunities for rest and recovery. What's happened right now is we're creating this artificial ecosystem where we're calling this high performance, or we're just calling this the way that the world is now. But the reality is our nature is very much designed to have ebbs and flows, to have seasons of high productivity, absolutely. But then, we need time to rest and to recharge and just really enjoy that. Right now, again, I think we're doing a big disservice by suggesting that everything needs to be this complicated, and this full, versus being able to priority management, the things that matter most and make those things matter most, so we can enjoy the process. [0:06:43] PF: What's so difficult is we keep adding more things that need to be done. Even some of those things are, “I need to relax. I need to build in time to meditate, or whatever my form of relaxation is.” Then it becomes just one more thing on this list. You get stressed out looking at it, because you can't get to all those things. [0:07:03] RHD: Absolutely. It would be a full-time job in itself just to do all the things that they say we ought to be doing and we should be doing, or we could be doing for our well-being. One of the things that when we're doing this research that really was striking for me was, for example, we learned that loneliness will kill you faster than a bad diet. Yet, we're not talking about social connection. As we are talking about what's the nice next hype cycle of what nutrition program we should be following. Again, it's reimagining that, okay, well, what is it that we actually need? Really, much going back to some of those fundamentals of ensuring that we're meeting all of the parts of our well-being. So often, again, when we talk about well-being, I think people are really talking about health and you know what? Yeah, health is associated with the physical self. Well-being is the emotional self, it's the spiritual self, it's all of the parts of us that make up our identity. I think coming at this from a different perspective of radically simplifying the things that matter most, where we'll get the best return on our investment. I can give you an example of that. Okay, just recently I was at a huge event and they were all asking me what supplements should I be taking, or how cold should the cold plunge be? They're just really talking about a lot of those pieces of information in the media that are making some really big promises to radically transform our lives. They're like, “Which one should I do, Robyne?” I said, well, I can ask you this. Do you sleep? They said, “Well, no.” Then I said, well, you're really stepping over a $100 bill to try and pick up a penny if you're looking at supplements, because if you're not having a good night's sleep, or using naps to help recover, none of the supplementation is going to work. You're trying to find a way to replace something that's so fundamental to our sense of well-being, which you just can't do with supplementation and things like that. [0:08:58] PF: Yeah, we do try to find this answer without looking at the actual cure for what's going on. As you brought up, sleep is such a huge factor in how we're doing well overall and stress completely robs us of that. Can you talk about some of the other ways we are affected when we are living in this world of constant stimulation? [0:09:18] RHD: Yeah. Well, I think one interesting area that we're seeing right now in the research is that as we see, for example, emotional health starting to get quite bumpy and there's a lot of turbulence right now about emotional health and mental health, one of the things that I'm really seeing is we're not really giving ourselves the spaciousness to be able to process our emotions. I'll give you this example. Imagine when you're a little kid and you're walking home from school after you've had a bad day, right? You're holding your backpack and you're walking down the street, chances are in the background, your brain is processing all of the day's events, right? Maybe you're not even giving it a lot of conscious thought, but in the background, your brain is organizing the learning, it's making space to process all of it However, now, when that little one is walking home from school, chances are they're scrolling on a phone. They're just adding more content constantly in. It's the steady stream of over-information, and what happens is our brain never gets to really do its job around putting things into place. Even just that notion that we're robbing ourselves the time to process thoughts and feelings and learnings, and we're just always on this treadmill of consumption, versus having time to be a curator and organize some of those thoughts and feelings. Then usually, what we see happens, Paula, is at the end of the day, you might just pass out, because you're exhausted. You're not falling asleep. You're just passing out. Then, because we haven't processed the day, we'll usually get a cortisol spike, I think usually between 1 a.m. and 3 a.m., and we wake up and we feel the sense of worry. We feel the sense of dread, because our body has just got this huge hit of cortisol. Again, we're in this cycle where our default setting isn't really manageable to the reality of how we want to be in our day and really how we want to feel most of the time. [0:11:10] PF: Yeah. It's like, our day is we just grab it and try to hold on. It's given a whole different meaning to seize the day. It's like, now I grab your hat and hold the hell on, kind of thing is how you feel. I think of that from an adult perspective. Then as you mentioned, the child, kids that are growing up in this always on environment, how is that rewiring them for the world? Because we know the studies are showing, each generation is subsequently less happy and more anxious and that is alarming. What does this have? What role does this play in it? [0:11:46] RHD: Oh, absolutely. You're absolutely right. It is very concerning, because the world is unwell and our children very much are unwell in this world in some cases. Again, what I really think is happening is that we've created that baseline, or our emotional home of that place of anxiety, of that place of, again, I don't think we're ever meant, or designed to have access to all of the information that we have. We know historically, there's always been unrest in the world, yet we were sheltered from it in some cases, because we didn't have this 24-hour news cycle, or this news feed always showing us the worst and all that noise and negativity. Our brains weren't designed to be activated in that state of threat, like they are all the time. I can share with you, when I'm working with young ones and especially adolescents is there's not a lot of hope right now in some places. They're not really excited about growing up, because they're not really seeing examples of grownups who are happy and grounded and really thriving. Right now, they're seeing very exhausted people who, again, are just, as you said, they're just barely holding on. I think it's really important that we find ways to model that, yes, we want to be productive and have these good livelihoods and this solid lifestyle. But there's also room for play and joy and this all being meaningful and worthwhile in the process. [0:13:13] PF: Yeah. As adults model that, we're not giving them anything to look forward to. [0:13:19] RHD: Yeah. I can tell you from a very – with radical candor, I recall several years ago, sitting at the kitchen table and my oldest at the time, he was there, and we were chatting and I had a very difficult, no good rotten day at work and this was becoming a theme. He said to me. He goes, “Mama, you told me that if I work really hard and that I set my intentions in the right way,” he said, “I could be anything that I wanted to be when I grow up. Is that true?” I was like, “Yes, Hunter. You can be anything, as long as you set your course in that right way and you work hard.” He paused, Paula, and he looked at me and he said, “Why can't you? Why can't you be anything when you grow up?” Because he goes, “Right now, mama,” he goes, “I just can't imagine, this is what you want to be. This is what you want to do.” [0:14:03] PF: Well, first of all, what an insightful son you have. [0:14:07] RHD: Absolutely. It was this emotional two by four to the face. It was just this moment of just stark clarity, where I realized, I was modeling behavior to my children of like, you know what? Other people can be happy. Other people can have this. But I was just in these trenches and repeating what I wasn't repairing. It was a really big wake-up call for me to say, “You know what? I do want to take this chance. I do want to write these books. I do want to explore my career, so I can model for my kids that there's another way to go about building a livelihood and a lifestyle.” [0:14:42] PF: We'll be right back. Now, it's time for Casey Johnson, Live Happy Marketing Manager and cat owner, to talk to us about PrettyLitter. [CASEY JOHNSON] [0:14:49] PF: Casey, welcome back. [0:14:50] CJ: Thanks. With three cats, PrettyLitter has become an essential part of our cat care routine. I must say, I understand why it's called PrettyLitter, because the packaging and the crystals are gorgeous. They live up to the name. Plus, they're super lightweight and lasts up to a month. That means, changing out the litter boxes less often, which is always a plus when you have a cat. Even better, they're delivered right to my doorstep and come in a small lightweight bag. Now, I don't have huge containers taking up space in our small condo. [0:15:18] PF: That's awesome. We're going to give that same opportunity to our listeners. They can go to prettylitter.com/livehappy and use the code LIVEHAPPY to save 20% on their first order and get a free cat toy. It's prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVEHAPPY to save 20% and get that free cat toy. Again, prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LIVEHAPPY. Now, let's get back to the show. [SPONSOR MESSAGE] [0:15:44] PF: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. As we're discussing today, most of us are feeling a lot of stress these days. One thing that can add to that stress is comparing ourselves to others on social media. It's so easy to start feeling like your life doesn't measure up. But with help from therapy, you can learn to focus on what you want, instead of what others are doing. Therapy can improve your coping skills and change the way you look at your world. BetterHelp is a great place to start. All you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire and you'll get matched with a licensed therapist. You can always change therapists at any time at no extra charge to make sure you get the therapist who's right for you. It's completely online, so it's flexible, convenient, and works with your schedule. Stop comparing and start focusing with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/livehappy today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com/livehappy. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [0:16:46] PF: One of the things I want to talk about is you talk about proactively planning for stress. [0:16:51] RHD: Yes. [0:16:52] PF: it's so simple, but genius. It's like, yes. Because we know it's coming. Let's talk about that. Talk about what you mean to plan for stress and then how that's going to change the way it affects us. [0:17:04] RHD: Yeah. The strategy we talk about is cope ahead of time. In our culture, many of us have been conditioned, or raised that we need to just go amongst our day and then stress will happen and then we have to recover from it. It's this idea that the stressor comes first and then we do recovery. The reality is, our evenings and our weekends, they're not long enough to repair all the things that we need to fix. Instead, the conversation switches to, okay, if this is what my day looks like, or this season, or this week, how do I make sure I'm coping ahead of time? That means, for example, even things like, planning out your meals, because the last thing anyone wants to do at 6.00 is to try and figure out what they want for dinner, right? We're not doing this because we're really adopting the hype cycle about meal prep and all the delivery things. It's nothing about that. It’s simply, you can decide that you're going to have pancakes for dinner, but just make that decision in the morning when you have good energy, versus waiting till you have that 6.00 energy that doesn't want to be able to make another decision, or a choice. We jokingly talk about how that's a swear word in our house like, “Mom, what's for dinner?” Don't you dare talk like that in this house. [0:18:15] PF: Watch your mouth, son. [0:18:17] RHD: Watch your mouth, exactly. That notion of cope ahead of time, where if you're going to have a stressful day, a stressful season, or even, let's say, a difficult conversation, or a difficult interaction, instead of booking an appointment, or a meeting right afterwards, give yourself the gift of blocking an hour in your calendar, so you can go for a walk, or you can call a trusted friend, or maybe even just do some online shopping to find some digital dopamine. Whatever it is, it's totally cool. It's the idea that you plan ahead of time. You forecast where there likely might be a few little bumps and you already have a strategy outlined. The other part, too, when we think about cope ahead of time, right now, our calendars are so full. There's no time for anything to go off the rails. That way, when a little irritant happens in our day, it almost feels catastrophic, because we're so scheduled. Even this notion of operating at a solid 80% of the capacity of most of the time, 80% of the time, and then you have 20% for wiggle room, if things pop up, or the unexpected happens. [0:19:26] PF: We can't change the amount of things we have to do. Overall, we cannot change our must-do list. We can't change the hours we have in a day. How do we change our mindset to embrace this better? As you say, stress wisely. [0:19:43] RHD: Again, this is the idea, I think, that’s so important is that we're operating a place within our values. What I mean by that is ensuring we're doing the things that matter most and make the matter most for the right reasons. I can give you a quick example, where when people show me their calendar and we say, okay, what are those must do's? What's not even, that's non-negotiable? Often, things that we might feel are non-negotiables, or must dos, actually might not be the way that they are. But we've just told ourselves that they are. I could give you another quick example. I remember one time, my son, he's off at university, he called, he's like, “Hey, I'm on my way home with some friends.” I said, “Okay, but not yet. I just need a few more hours, because I need to make our house look like nobody lives there.” That’s the goal, right? Anyway, so I'm frantically running around, trying to get the house looking like nobody lives there. What was so amazing, in the meantime, he had contacted his siblings who were home. Hunter said like, “What is she doing? What's mom doing that’s so big that we can't come home yet?” The little brother goes downstairs and he sees me wiping the baseboards, right? I'm wiping the baseboards and Jack says to his brother, “She's wiping the white stuff along the bottom of the room.” Hunter is like, “Okay.” Anyway, so a couple hours later, Hunter and his classmates come back to the house and they walk in and Hunter takes his friends, his new friends from university right into the dining room. He's showing them the baseboards. He's like, “Boys, I want you to see how clean my mother's baseboards are.” I was mortified. I was so mortified. I'm like, “Dude, I can't believe you did that. You just outed me like that.” He's just like, “Hey.” He's like, “Mom, if you're going to put it in the effort, I just want it acknowledged.” It was this awesome moment, again, where I was just like, I felt I had to do that before he came home. Paula, he lives in dorms. I can't even tell you the state of – [0:21:37] PF: Right. If there's not food on the floor, it's clean. [0:21:40] RHD: Exactly. In the moment it felt that I had to do this. This was so important. As soon as we take that moment to zoom out and look at the big picture, a lot of this stuff really doesn't feel as must do anymore. I tell you, kids need a present parent. They don't need a perfect parent. They just need us to be present. [0:22:03] PF: Yeah. I love that. Prioritizing, you talked about it a little bit. How do we start that process? Because we've got so many things. Like, list the most important thing. Well, I have three of those. [0:22:15] RHD: Yes. [0:22:16] PF: Where do we get this prioritization going for us? [0:22:21] RHD: Again, one of the things that we talk about is making the invisible visible, right? So many of us, especially when we're the predominant person in the household, we hold so much knowledge that literally it's like, we're these oracles, right? We have all of this knowledge in our head, but none of it's visible. As soon as we start to make it visible, so if we even just grab a piece of paper, or a whiteboard and just start mapping out all the things that we feel we need to do, and then again, just looking at it, taking that step back and being like, is this a must do? Or is this, it would be nice to do? Is this really an alignment with how I want to feel? How I want to be, especially when we think about all that invisible labor in with our family systems. Again, once we start looking at it and getting it out of our heads, putting it on paper, we're going to realize that there's some places where we can get some clarity, and especially around simplification. Things do not need to be as complex, I think, as we're making them out to be right now. [0:23:23] PF: But it's almost become our way to just complicate things. Why are we doing that? [0:23:28] RHD: Well, I think it's very much because we're trying to fit in. We're trying to fit in with the people around us, versus finding our sense of belonging. Our sense of belonging, when we're with the right community, we don't feel the need to try and compete. If you're with your people, with the right friends and the right community, this isn't a competition, because I want you to win as well. It's those people who, yeah, they can show up and have a barbecue and we're not feeling the need to run around the house to make it look that no one lives there. We're not feeling that need, that everything has to be perfect. Because for the right people, that's not what they're interested in. They're interested in the people in the space, not what some of these spaces look like. I think just that competition sometimes and that social comparison, just trying to fit in and be included. I also think as well, there's this notion that we've lost sight that we have way more control in this whole situation than we really acknowledge, because it doesn't have to be this way. We can step out of this race at any time and we can run our own race. We can do it our own way. Again, I think so often, we give up so much of our ability to choose and identify what matters most to my family, or to my community. We just get pulled along in this current. But we can say, we're done. We can say, “This isn't how I want to feel most of the time.” That's what I really encourage people, when we think about these practices that are going to foster self-care, or self-stewardship, it's not like, what do you want to do, or how do you want to look, or what do you want to achieve? The question is, how do you want to feel? I know personally, I want to feel present. I want to feel grounded. I want to have space for joy. I want to have space for spontaneity. I want to have space for us to be able to enjoy our days. They're very, very special to be able to have these opportunities. [0:25:16] PF: As you say that, you can almost hear people saying, “Yes, but.” Because we think, “Oh, yeah. That sounds great. That sounds great for you, but you don't understand how busy my life is, or how much I have going on.” You have all people understand that. [0:25:32] RHD: I do. [0:25:33] PF: When someone is sitting in your office and says that to you, what is your response? [0:25:39] RHD: First of all, my response would be to sit beside the person ear-to-ear, not eye-to-eye and acknowledge that that reality for them is real. That right now, it doesn't seem like there's another way, other than this fullness that we've created. Because we've created these lives, right? Again, I do recognize that there's an abundance of privilege to be able to say, take a break, step back, because some persons are navigating some big complicated situations. Even with that, there is a way to do it in a gentler, more compassionate way. I would want to sit beside that person and say, yeah, what you're feeling is absolutely real and you're not alone. I would love to show you a different way. Even just one of the questions I really love to ask people to move them out in that place of scarcity, where it's like, I don't have enough of time, I'm always chasing, hustling. I love to ask the person this question is, what does it feel like when you are connected with your favorite self, your favorite part of you? Now, this isn't your best self, or your wisest self, or your most integrated self. It's like, what are you feeling when you're your favorite version of you? I love how this question just dismantles a lot of the roles and obligations and the shoulds and I have tos, and it just allows people to reconnect with the parts of them that are like, “Hey.” I hear things follow like, “When I'm my favorite self, I'm not worrying as much. When I'm my favorite self, I roll with things a little better. I don't hold things so tightly. Maybe I'm a little bit more child-like, and I'm up to new adventures, or maybe there's a curiosity, or a silliness.” Again, I think we can reactivate and reconnect with the parts of us that are really, really looking to shine and come out, because they've worked very hard, but I think they need to play as hard as well. [0:27:34] PF: Is a lot of it just recognizing what you want that self to look like? [0:27:39] RHD: I believe so. Again, self-awareness right now is the most critical social-emotional skill that we can have, the self-awareness, when we actually just take a step back and we look at that pig picture and say, “Okay is this working for me? Is this actually how I want to feel? Is this actually how I want my days to be?” As somebody who, I myself, and I write about this in my first book, I experienced a very significant, a catastrophic car accident when I was 16-years-old. That event was very much this turning point for me personally. What happens when you've had these very difficult experiences and this traumatic event is that you get this clarity and this perspective that comes, where I often ask myself at the end of the day, it's like, “If this is my last day today, is this what I want to be doing? Is this what I want to be feeling? Is this where I want to be spending my time and my energy?” Again, the reality, not to sound doom and gloom about forecasting the end of our days, but there's something pretty powerful when you pause and be like, “Okay, if this is my last day, am I going to look back on and said, it was a good day, or I made the best of it?” I think, again, just that awareness and those radical shifts, they're not these – it's interesting. It's the little things done well and those little things aren't that little after all. [0:29:02] PF: Yeah. One thing that I've started doing, a lot of it is due to the recent death of some aunts. That has given me an appreciation for things that I have to do that I don't want to do. But the fact that I can do them, the fact that I'm healthy and I'm strong and I can go do these things, it's really interesting how that reframes the things that you don't care for in life. [0:29:29] RHD: Absolutely. I could share with you just recently, I was working with, again, at a large event, and somebody was saying that, “Oh, gosh. I would do anything for my kids. I would do absolutely anything for them.” I'm like, “That's great.” A woman actually said, “I would die for them. There's nothing I would not do for my family.” I said, “Interesting.” I said, “But would you live for them? Would you take care of yourself for them? Would you prioritize your own well-being and mental health, so you can be here for as long as possible in the most healthy way?” It was just this really interesting moment. One woman actually asked me like, “Okay. Well, what do you do each day to look after yourself, Robyne?” I shared some very simple practices that I like to do. Another woman said, “Well, don't you feel guilty? Don't you feel guilty for doing that?” I said, “No, I feel guilty if I yell at my kids. I feel guilty if I yell at my husband,” or I'm sure with my husband when I know there's things that I can do to be the best version of myself and I don't do them. I don't feel guilty for taking care of myself. I feel guilty when I don't do those things. Then my family's caught up in the blast radius. [0:30:34] PF: I love that. I love thinking that way, and I love being able to remind ourselves that self-care is taking care of everyone around you, because they're all going to benefit from that. [0:30:44] RHD: Absolutely. [0:30:46] PF: We have possibly a difficult fall coming up. No matter where you stand on anything, let's say. There's a lot of stress, and it's already starting to bubble up. Using what you teach in your book, how can we approach this and plan for the stress and make it an easier time? [0:31:07] RHD: You're asking such a great question. There's so many different ways that we can approach it. I think what's really important, when things feel out of control, or there's uncertainty or division, one of the things that we can really lean into are habits, routines, or rituals, where we can make sure that we are okay. We know, for example, that morning routine, taking a few minutes each morning to whether it's go for a walk, or just write in your journal, or have that cup of coffee and just be present, and not start our day opening ourselves up to the world. We want to make sure that we just take a few minutes to ground ourselves. Then when we are able to take that time, make sure our head and our heart are okay. Then we open up to the big world that's out there, we’ll be in a better position to cope and manage with what's going on. The other thing is I think that there's also a place for avoiding certain conversations, if you just know that the outcome isn't going to be positive for either person. What I mean by that is there's some conversations just be willing to walk away from. I think it was actually the actor, Keanu Reeves, who said, he got to the point in his life where if somebody told him that one plus one equals five, he would say, “Cool, you're right,” and walk away. Stop engaging in battles with people who just live to be upset. Some people just live to be upset, and recognizing that that's not how you want to feel. There's just some conversations. That doesn't mean we turn to blind eye to big, significant social justice issues that are unfolding. I'm not suggesting that we come passive. I just want to make sure that we are as well-resourced as possible to make sure that we are okay and our family systems are okay, because that's our best chance to weather a difficult season. [0:32:54] PF: I love that. There's a lot to unpack when we're talking about stress. But right now, what is the one thing that listeners can take away with them, about how they can live their lives with a little bit less stress and learn to manage what stress they do have? [0:33:11] RHD: Yeah, again, a great question. I think where we would start is if we think about the power of our relationships. What I mean by that is we're not meant to do all of this alone. So often, when we're under high levels of stress and have lots of cortisol in our bloodstreams, what happens is we feel this tendency to lone wolf it. That we have to just be more stoic and just hustle through, push through. The reality is when we show up for one another and we nurture those relationships and connect with that collective humanity, it's going to serve us a lot better. Pushing away from that driver, that tendency to shut down, and instead of giving ourselves a timeout, give ourselves a time in, where we are able to connect with the people that matter most to us and be able to see those communities, because that sense of belonging will help us weather whatever stressors come our way. [0:34:01] PF: Robyne, you have a lot to teach us. I thank you for sharing some of it today. I do. I appreciate you coming on the show, and love this book and would love to talk to you some more. [0:34:10] RHD: I would love that. Take good care and thank you for this chance to chat today. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:34:18] PF: That was Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe, talking about resilience and how we can better respond to stress. If you'd like to learn more about Robyne, follow her on social media, check out her book, Stress Wisely, or discover her online classes to learn about resilience, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy Newsletter. Every week, we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That's all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Happy Activists: Wilson County Kind Makes Kindness Cool [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:01] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 474 of Live Happy Now. We know that kindness is crucial and sometimes these days it seems to be in short supply. But today, we're talking to a couple of happy activists who are creating kindness in a place you might not expect. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and this week I'm joined by Mayor Randall Hutto and Project Administrator Susan Shaw, who are the driving forces behind an initiative in Tennessee called Wilson County Kind. As the name implies, Wilson County Kind promotes kindness, starting with local government. Randall and Susan are here to share how this initiative started, why it's important for governments to embrace kindness, and what effect this has had on their community. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:49] PF: Mayor Hutto, welcome to Live Happy Now. [0:00:52] RH: Thank you for having me. [0:00:53] PF: This is a wonderful thing that we're going to talk about today. It's something, I love the fact that it comes from a government agency. I love the good that you're putting out in the world. So, before I ask you any more questions about it, why don't you tell us, tell our listeners what Wilson County Kind is all about. [0:01:09] RH: Well, thank you for having me on the show. For us, we get lots of conversations, and lots of traffic that comes through our office. Normally, it's an opportunity for us to help people. They have an issue, many people don't walk to the door saying, “Hey, you're doing a great job.” Again, it becomes an opportunity for us to really do a setback and take a chance on how can we help that person that comes in. Normally, we're able to do that. Sometimes we're not able to, but most of the time we are. But we realize that as we began to see people come in and how happy they were leaving, the focus though was always on what's not done right, what's missing, what's not there. It reminds me of a story that I heard about a professor given a test to his college class. He handed a piece of paper out. He told him to leave them all face down. Then he was going to give them a little bit of time to write on that project and write on the test. Then took it back up and began to read what they wrote. Anyway, the test was really a white sheet of paper with a black dot in the middle of it. When they all flipped it over, he said, “Now, write what you see.” Everybody spent time writing. They talked about the dot. It was black and it was in the middle of paper, but nobody focused on the white area that was outside it. That was the point that he was making there that a lot of times when we go through life, what we focus on determines our attitude, maybe how we live. So, that was the piece that we noticed here. Once we solved that problem, those people were happy that were mad when they walked in, and we realized that there were a lot of good going on in the county, but people were just focusing on the bad things. Many times, we saw that, for sure, on Facebook, where they talked maybe about the government. We were trying to figure out how can we get the message out here that this is not really what's happening and tell the story, but many times when we did that, it would just balloon into something that would get out of control, because they would start fussing about something else. We said, what can we do to bring positivity to the people in the county for them to realize all the good things. There are definitely some things we need to get better at, things we need to correct. That's where we started the initiative in Wilson County Kind, and we said, focus on something that's good. When you see a good act, post that on social media. Send a story to the paper on that. Let somebody else know that something good has happened. So, that got the story started. Then I had an episode with a young lady that I met at the Wilson County Fair. She came up to me and we normally made it to fair and ride some rides, but she came up and said, you know what? Her goal was, was that she wanted to do something nice for Wilson County, so she made some bracelets that said Wilson County Kind on it. She gave me a couple at the fair. I wore those for a while. Then I asked her a little bit more about this. I said, “Tell me what you're doing here.” She said, “Well, I'm going to sell these bracelets for whatever anybody wants to give me. Then once they give me the money, I'm going to do something good with that money. I'm not going to pocket it for myself. I'm not doing it for me. I'm doing it for other people.” So, as time went on, what she did with that money was they actually made up some packets. Actually, they've given me several packets so far of things to give out to the homeless people, homeless population. Inside that back during the wintertime, I had a couple of hot hand warmers in there, a gift card, maybe a couple of other things, a bracelet. So, I went out and I just saw somebody on the side of the street that I knew who was homeless. I would hand that out. So, that became hit, but that was just one example of things that happened as we started talking about Wilson County Kind. Susan Shaw have her with me here. She's really the overseer of all this. I'll let her talk in just a minute about that, but there's been many other things, but that was the initial goal was to say, focus on the positive things that are happening here and let's put that out in social media or tell people about any time you catch a kind act. There's more good out there than they are bad, but we don't focus on it, so let's get that out there. So, that's the origination of Wilson County Kind. [0:05:15] PF: Well, when you started thinking about this, like how did it go from you thinking this would be a great thing for us to do for the county to spread this good news to actually becoming a program, because that's a big stretch of highway between those two points? [0:05:31] RH: It definitely was a concept that we had to spend a lot of time on. I'm going to let Susan Shaw speak for just a second, because she really orchestrated all this and made all the mechanics fall together. I'm going to turn it over to her. Susan Shaw. [0:05:44] PF: Okay. [0:05:44] SS: Thank you for asking that. Really, it originated once the mayor, we talked about this and decided that this was something to focus on and emphasize. We decided to have a campaign launch and not just a press release or something to notify people, but a real campaign launch. There was a lot of focus put on that to have activities in that launch. So, we invited everybody that wanted to come to see this and hear about this. We introduced them to Lexi Potter, who does the Kindness Clays by Lexi. Her little bracelets. We had five stations set up that were activity stations that demonstrated kindness. One of our local artists, Kim Greg, she had some blank postcards made up and with images on there that people could color. She brought some coloring materials and people could come up to her table and color it in and write a encouraging message on the back of it. We partnered with our side, Senior Living here, and we've collected all these after they were done and we mailed them to residents at her side. We purposely did several activities that people could engage in and would demonstrate kindness and really get them motivated on it. The neat thing about this with kindness is that once you start putting a spotlight on it and a focus on it, people start to notice it more. Not only does it help the recipient of the kind act, but the person that did it feels better. Then the person that received it tells three other people, and then they might go out and do something or observe something or tell more people about it. It's kind of this leveraging effect that once you start it and it can really continue to spread. [0:07:22] PF: When did it actually launch? [0:07:24] SS: It was September of last year. People asked, “Well, when does it start and when does it end?” [0:07:29] PF: When are you going to stop being kind, Susan? [0:07:33] SS: That was the answer. You don't. We have a start date, but we don't need to have an end date and we, so we keep publicizing when we observe, or see, or people tell us about something that was a kind act, we continue to publicize that. On social media, we encourage people to use #WilsonCountyKind, because that way we can pull it up and we can see what happens. I wanted to tell you one other neat story, because you heard about Lexi and another young man, a sophomore at Mount Juliet High School that reached out when he saw the campaign launch and he said, “I want to do something and I want to help in this kindness campaign.” He had an idea that he noticed that with the athletics in the high school, that they would retire old equipment and sometime he didn't know what happened. It might be thrown out or something. He said, “I would like to collect that and where could it be given?” In the county, there's an initiative to try to start a boys and girls club. He said, “How about if I collect the equipment and if there's a place to store it, I'll collect it. I'll deliver it. Then it can be used for that purpose later.” So, he did that. [0:08:38] PF: That's amazing. I love it, because what this initiative is making people do is like what can I do? They're thinking about it. They're pausing for a moment and saying, “How can I be part of that?” That's really what it takes. Like you said, it causes this chain reaction. We'll be right back with the show, but right now I want to bring in Casey Johnson, Live Happy Marketing Manager and cat owner, who's here to tell us about her favorite new discovery called PrettyLitter. [MESSAGE] [0:09:03] CJ: I love PrettyLitter. It has changed my life truly, but three cats, I feel like I'm constantly trying to mask the smell. I feel like PrettyLitter does just that. It changes the color to help monitor early signs of things like kidney issues and urinary tract infections. Not so fun fact, a few years ago, one of my cats had to have emergency surgery. I truly feel that if I had PrettyLitter at the time, we could have detected the problem sooner and taken proper action. So, I cannot recommend PrettyLitter enough if you were a cat parent. [0:09:35] PF: All right. I know you're going to be telling us more about that in the weeks to come, but our listeners can go to prettylitter.com/livehappy and use the code LiveHappy to save 20% on their first order and get a free cat toy. That's prettylitter.com/livehappy, code LiveHappy to save 20% and get a free cat toy. Again, prettylitter.com/livehappy. code LiveHappy. Now, back to our show. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [0:10:01] PF: I wonder were there any challenges to implementing it? Did you hit any skepticism or people stonewalling against, because a lot of times when you try to do good, people say that's nice, but and then they tell you why it's not going to work. [0:10:14] SS: They Mayor may have a different answer, but I'll tell you what I encountered. It wasn't exactly stonewalling. It was more, well, what does this mean? Because it's very conceptual. It's not a super concrete, but we did give examples, but it was more, well, what does that mean? What is this really? What's the end game? I guess that might be the skepticism is – [0:10:34] PF: Yeah. [0:10:35] SS: Who’s going to produce? We couldn't exactly answer that at the beginning, because how can you say Lexi Potter is going to want to give back and give these care packets. Brady Patterson is going to want to collect sports equipment and give that to a boys or girls club. It's hard to know what people are going to do, but it was pleasantly surprising that so many people stepped up and had ideas. I want to tell you about one other one. We have an SRO. A School Resource Officer. This is something that Wilson County is really proud of, because we've had school resource officers in all of our schools for long before there was so much attention put on it and money put into it from the legislature. One of the school resource officers, they have a program to give out certificates for good deeds. So, they're participating in the Wilson County Kind that when they see a student that does something that is just kind to another person, reaching out a hand, helping somebody doing something, they get a certificate with their name on it and they present it to them. They take a picture. They posted on social media. So, they've been posting it with #WilsonCountyKind, but I didn't even know that they did that. So, that affected me too. It was nice to see that, and learn that. [0:11:55] PF: I love that. So, what are some of the other things that you've done? What are the actions that you've taken as part of Wilson County Kind? [0:12:04] SS: Talking about it is a big thing and that's really the putting a spotlight on it, like I said, you don't know what the end result is going to be, but we talk about it when we go to chamber meetings or meet the mayor. Inevitably, every time we talk about it, we learn about another kind action or deed or something that has happened. I talked about it at the Ambassador meeting of the Lebanon Wilson County Chamber. When I finished talking about it, the chair of that committee said, “Susan, that is so interesting.” He said, “If I think about it, as you're talking, I'm thinking about over the last week and what acts of kindness that I observe.” He said, “I hate to tell you, but I really can't tell you any.” He said, “But I can guarantee you that right now I am hyper alert and I will be looking for it. I am sure I'm going to observe this when I go out.” I thought, that's right there, that's part of the impact and what you see happen. [0:12:59] PF: What I love about that, one thing we talk about a lot at Live Happy Now is gratitude and how having a gratitude practice really changes the way that you look at the world, because if you're going to write down three things every day, you're grateful for, you're training your mind to look for things you're grateful for. That's exactly what you're doing by spreading this message. You're teaching people to start looking for acts of kindness. So, I love that. Now, instead of looking for the bad in the world, they're out there looking for the kindness around them. That's such a powerful gift to the community. [0:13:30] RH: I think it is. I don't think it's taken attraction yet enough to where it's where we want it. We've talked about it. We've got the two citizens that she just talked about, the SRO, but we know there's a lot out there. We've got to find a way to make it a everyday train of thought, not just once in a while or one or two people, because we know just like – network came out of this after the tornadoes where volunteers came together to help all across the county. There's many good things have come together to prove that Wilson County is a kind and generous place to live. There's a lot of that going on, but nobody's telling that story. We are just getting started in my opinion with Wilson County Kind, like I have a sign in my front yard, and I wonder how many people drive by and look at it and say, “I wonder what that means.” That's the goal. We're in the early stages in my mind of people that sinking in, kind of like Wilson County, the place to be. Wilson County Kind will continue to grow. We hope, and take more and more attraction. I think it takes three or four big events to happen that we can talk about that will start spreading a little bit, hopefully, like fire throughout the county, but it has not really in my mind gotten a lot of attraction, like we hope it does here soon. [0:14:45] PF: Part of what's so interesting to me is that, okay, so we know that kindness is very important, but it's not something that you would think of tackling through a government agency. How does that work with your duties as Mayor of Wilson County to behind this movement? How do you work it into part of your duties? [0:15:03] PF: I think it comes under the duties of quality of life. One of the goals here that we have, no question, we have to educate people. We have to incarcerate people. We have to make it safe, but quality of life is one of our major points that we want people to be happy while they're here and enjoy the life that they have here. We don't have to leave the county lines for anything to be honest with you. So, I think that's where it comes in as far as quality of life goes. It's important for our people at least where I sent from to know that there is a lot of, we'll take tourism, for example. There's a lot of great things to do in Wilson County that people don't know about, so we try to spread that word through tourism, but there's a lot of good activities happening. A lot of people doing good for others that we've got to get that word out there. I think it's really going to have to happen, as Susan said, when you ask a while ago the question, but what's the problem? The but is, so how do I really help? What if I'm not good at social media? I don't know how to do a hashtag. I don't know what that means. How can I still take advantage of this? I think that's the piece that is our next step is really getting a word. Here's how you can do it. [0:16:10] PF: I love that. What do you think would happen if other communities started taking this on as a governmental initiative or it's just little pockets of some citizens trying to do this, which is a wonderful thing to do, but what if governments actually got behind that and said, yeah, that's part of, as you said, that's part of our quality of life and we're going to make this about being a kind city and kind community? How would that change things? [0:16:34] RH: I think it definitely does change things. We're working to initiative here becoming an age friendly community, which allows for different things to happen for our older families here, grants to qualify for better services for those people. I think as a government as long as and what we've really tried to do smart here is that we don't use any taxpayer dollars to do this, this is just a way of thinking of life. This is a new culture. I think it'd be great for government, because right now government sometimes has a bad tone to it in our world today, but at the local level, it's not really that. I mean, we're here to provide the services that we just talked to you about, so we want to distance ourselves from any negative tone when you say government that you may feel inside of you. I think it would allow for people to say, “I like my government. I trust my government. I'm glad they're doing this. It's not cost me any money. I get benefits from it, because people are kinder as I walk across and see them walking down the street.” We know that we live in the best part of the country, probably. I think right now is when you wave at people, you don't know, you speak to people, you talk to people, you don't find a stranger. That is in our culture here, not for sure if it exists everywhere else in the country or not, but I know it exists here and we want to continue to expound on it. [0:17:52] PF: If people are hearing this and they're saying, “This is what we need to do, like we need to do something similar.” How do they get started? This might be a Susan question. I'm not sure, because it sounds like she was driving that vehicle quite a bit. How do they go from an idea to implementation? [0:18:07] SS: Well, first of all, you get the support of people like Mayor Hutto. You get the support of somebody in government like that. Also, a support from the school systems, which we had huge support. Annie Barger, she's with the Family Resource Center for Wilson County Schools and Beth Petty in the same role for Lebanon Special School Districts. They got with us and helped plan it. Then we also, because it's not paid for with taxpayer money, we needed a small amount of money to do some promotional things, like yard signs, and stickers for water bottles, and we gave out t-shirts and all those things we gave out free at the campaign lunch. What you do is we found a great partner. We have something called Ten Community here in Wilson County. It's nine or ten banks that group together to be very supportive within the county. They sponsored Wilson County Kind and basically put up some funding this small amount, but for us to be able to buy some things that help with the PR. So, you brand it, you get the support locally of whoever it happens to be, government, school systems, chambers, our Chamber of Commerce were very supportive and the banks are helpful, because ours are very community-oriented banks in the first place. We brand it. You come up with a good name. The logo was created for us by a local visionary design group who is a local marketing firm in Watertown and they did that pro bono. Then you just have to create some spark around it. Now, there's a lot more PR that we can do and we need to do and we'll constantly be thinking and building on that, but that's how we got started. We brainstormed with people to say what our kind acts, what are some activities that people do? Sometimes it's being in the line at Chick-fil-A and saying you're going to pay it for the person behind it. That it starts a lot. That happens a lot of times and people recognize that. Then talk about it, when you see something or hear something, then talk about it. Make it known. [0:20:04] PF: I love it. I love it. What's your dream? You've got it kicked off, you're going, you're picking up momentum. What's your vision? What does success look like for this program? [0:20:14] SS: I think success looks like recognition. It looks like seeing acts of kindness everywhere you go, whether it's in a store, or a school, or at a playground, or something. It's hearing about people reaching out and doing something kind for somebody else. It's hearing more, thank you. It's receiving more thank you notes in the mail. That to me is what it looks like if you're trying to create a vision. It can continue forever, and I hope it does, and I hope it just continues to grow. [0:20:43] PF: I love it. Thank you so much for sitting down and talking with me today. I appreciate both of you. Giving your time and letting us share this with our listeners. We're going to give them all the information they need to know about how to find Wilson County Kind. They can check it out. Maybe get some ideas for doing it themselves, but thank you so much for the good that you're putting out into the world. [0:21:02] SS: Thank you for asking, Paula. We enjoy talking with you about this. [OUTRO] [0:21:10] PF: That was Randall Hutto and Susan Shaw talking about Wilson County Kind. If you'd like to learn more about this initiative or follow them on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. While you're there, you can also sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every week we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info and even a happy song of the week. That's all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Overcoming Loneliness With Dr. Jeremy Nobel [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 472 of Live Happy Now. Loneliness is one of the major challenges facing our society today. Since this is Loneliness Awareness Week, it's a great time to look at what's behind this loneliness epidemic. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and this week, I'm sitting down with physician, teacher, innovator, and author, Dr. Jeremy Nobel. founder of The Foundation for Art & Healing, and the Project UnLonely initiative. Jeremy, who is also on the faculty of the Harvard Medical School and the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, has published the book, Project UnLonely: Healing Our Crisis of Disconnection. He's here to talk about what loneliness is doing to us and what we should be doing about it. Let's have a listen. [NTERVIEW]   [0:00:50] PF: Dr Nobel, thank you so much for joining us on Live Happy Now. [0:00:54] JN: My pleasure to be with you. [0:00:56] PF: It's so important to talk to you any time of the year, but right now, we really are excited to talk to you, because we have Loneliness Awareness Week. Boy, loneliness is such a huge, huge issue for so many people today. I was curious, first of all, where did your interest in not just studying loneliness, but resolving the crisis begin? [0:01:16] JN: Well, actually, it really began in an interesting way after 9/11, but I didn't know that I was really focused on loneliness. I was actually very interested in the trauma of 9/11, as an experience for many people, particularly children. That's what got me started, and I started The Foundation for Art & Healing, 501(c)3 nonprofit. The idea was to promote creative expression as a path to health and wellbeing. Really focusing on the power of the arts to really help us make sense of the world in positive, healthy, stress-reducing, trauma recovery-oriented ways. As we started doing this work with the arts, we quickly found that many people with trauma and dealing with that stress were also quite lonely. They told us that the work we were doing with the arts to engage, and activate, and have kind of exciting conversations, storytelling, and so on, made them feel less lonely and more connected. That really got our attention, and that's what launched Project UnLonely. [0:02:19] PF: What is the connection between trauma and loneliness? [0:02:22] JN: When you're traumatized, so what is trauma? It's a painful, hurtful injury or experience. As you can imagine, when you have something painful, and even if it's something just like touching a hot stove, if you remember all those stories. You learn not to touch hot stoves, you back away from the threat of a hot stove. Many times, trauma is associated with engagement with other people. So, this could be everything from military trauma, to domestic violence, to the repeated marginalization of racism. This is all painful, and so, we withdraw. Almost anything that leads to trauma, in a way, does set you up for a kind of isolation, a kind of loneliness. That relationship is pretty clear. The real challenge, we'll talk more about it, is how do you move from that loneliness towards a sense of connection. [0:03:15] PF: Now, your organization started in 2016 and there was no clue at that point that the loneliness crisis was going to get so bad. In fact, as you mentioned in your book, 2020 was going to be a bang-up year for your organization. You had so much research that you were going to present, and so many speaking engagements, and then that all disappeared. Thank you, COVID. So, has your approach to loneliness changed at all since 2020, and how have you seen loneliness change in society? [0:03:47] JN: All great questions. First, just for clarity, Project UnLonely isn't its own organization. It actually is a project, it's the signature initiative of The Foundation for Art & Healing, which is the organization. Although we formally launched Project on lonely in 2016, we actually started doing the work to understand loneliness and how the arts connect well before that, around 2011 or 2012. Then, the question is, how did the pandemic change the approach to loneliness? I think what it did, in general, was shine a spotlight on it. As you mentioned, we had loneliness well before the pandemic, but somehow, it became part of all of our consciousness in a very different way. As you mentioned, I start my book, Project UnLonely: Healing Our Crisis of Disconnection. Very first page with how dramatically my world got upended in March 2020. Plans, relationships, teaching, travel, all of this just went on hold as we all tried to navigate this new reality, which forced us to have a kind of isolation to protect us and our neighbors from the virus. While isolation is different than loneliness, it's highly associated with it. So, many people experience loneliness in a way they had not before. [0:05:09] PF: I want to touch on that, what you just said, because we do equate isolation with loneliness. We have had an aunt who spent a lot of time alone, and she told me she's like, "I have never been lonely." Even though she was isolated, she didn't feel lonely. What is the difference between isolation and loneliness? Because you can be in a crowd of people and still feel lonely. [0:05:30] JN: Exactly. One of the real goals of my book is to demystify loneliness and humanize it. The first really important lesson, if you will, is that being alone is not the same thing as being lonely. Being alone is objective. It's the absence of social connection. This can be, if you're in a rural setting, or even isolated in an apartment in an urban setting, where, let's say, you've got a disability, you can't leave easily, or you're fearful about going outside. So then, you are alone. But being alone can be such a positive experience of thoughtful reflection, consideration, the bigger world picture, contemplation. We have a high-class word for it. We sometimes call it solitude, and we do need solitude, but that's different than being lonely. Here's what loneliness is. It's subjective, it's a feeling, it's a mood state. It's the difference between the social connections with other people that we would like to have and what we feel we do have. That gap is what we experience as loneliness. As you pointed out, you actually can be lonely in a crowd. It has nothing to do with whether there are other people around you. It's whether you have the social connections you want. If you're with other people, but don't feel connected to them, you feel lonely. That introduces what I found, a really important observation, and I think, maybe your community will also, is that they're different types of loneliness. [0:07:10] PF: I'm so glad you brought that up, because you talk about three types of loneliness. I was like, I thought there was just loneliness. Can you dig into that and tell us about that? [0:07:17] JN: Right. Well, I thought so too, until we actually started going out and talking about it. So, very simply, there's psychological loneliness, which is, "Do I have a friend? Is there someone I can tell my troubles to?" That's what many people think of when they think of loneliness. But then, there's also the loneliness of systematic exclusion. We call that societal loneliness, because of race, or gender, or disability. Do people evaluate you in that very superficial characteristic and treat you differently, and, in a sense, withdraw from you in a systematic way? That's very different than not having a friend. You could have plenty of friends, but if you feel, for instance, are in a racist workplace and it's not safe to be in certain conversations, you're going to experience loneliness in even though you might have friends. The third type of loneliness, which I am very interested in, and it's been around thousands of years, is where do I relate to the bigger world, the narrative of human experience. People with a religious orientation often call kind of the religious world, God, the universe. But you don't have to be religious to have a sense of curiosity about how your life fits into the bigger story. What was here on the planet before I arrived? What will be here after I depart? Does my life have meaning, consequence? If you don't have solid grounding and answers to those questions, you can feel quite lonely. I think that's the loneliness that's affecting a lot of what we know is the loneliest demographic, 18 to 28 years old. They have plenty of friends, they're connected on social media, but they're wondering, "What am I doing? What's my future? Does my life have meaning? Do I matter?" That could be quite distressing, and it's its own form of loneliness. [0:09:13] PF: Is the way that you address those different forms of loneliness, does that differ? [0:09:20] JN: Absolutely. As someone who in the public health world, and through Project UnLonely, we're trying to design interventions that are powerful for people, as you might imagine. If the loneliness is the loneliness of uncertainty about your meaning in the world, that's very different than the loneliness of not having someone to talk to. So, if you think, "Okay. What do I need to feel less lonely?" One of the first important questions to ask yourself is, what type of loneliness am I experiencing? In my book, I provide different questions we can ask, but they're kind of what you might think. Do I enjoy relationships with others where I can have a chance to have authentic conversations? Or, are those missing from my life? If they're missing from my life, how might I pursue having more of them? So, we lay out some of the strategies for that also. If your feeling of loneliness is uncertainty about your own positioning in the universe, of meaning, and is there purpose. Then, you might want to ask yourself more about how you want to relate to that, how you feel you can be more meaningful, and part of the bigger story. There's some strategies I talked about in the book for that too. [0:10:33] PF: How did you come up with these different strategies? Obviously, you're a fabulous researcher. How did you come to understand those different types of loneliness, and this is what would resolve them? [0:10:45] JN: It's a really great question. The way, again, research works, science works, it's driven by one thing. By the way, it's the same thing that drives the arts, and that's curiosity. As we started going out, and doing programs, and having conversations with hundreds of people about their loneliness and what their experience was, we began to see patterns and trends. It's also important to know that of these three types of loneliness, you could have one type, two types, or three types altogether. That was the first thing, was the observation, awareness. In terms of what works to impact it, some of that is based on psychology research in laboratory settings. We can study what seems to activate people, to embolden them, to be able to connect with others, and tolerate what I sometimes call discomfort of disclosure. Because if you reveal something authentic about yourself, and then someone says, "Sorry, you're too boring. I don't want to have a conversation with you."   [0:11:48] PF: Or, "That's just too much for me."   [0:11:50] JN: Exactly. Or, "I can't handle that." Then, you might feel rejected, abandoned, critiqued, and that hurts. So then, you're reluctant to do that. People, in a way, they connect with others, have to learn to tolerate the fact that you're not always 100% successful, and to keep going just like – you have to explore, and try different things, and see what works for you personally. [0:12:16] PF: That makes so much sense. There was a report that caught everyone's attention. I think it was within the last year, and it's really quoted quite a bit, and that is that loneliness is more dangerous than smoking. We hear that a lot, but we don't hear the reasoning behind that. Could you explain to us why it's so harmful, and also, physically, what loneliness does to us? [0:12:41] JN: Absolutely. That work, that sound bite about being smoking. It can be as dangerous as smoking – loneliness can be as dangerous as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Why is that? Because at its chronic extreme stages, loneliness actually changes how the brain functions, and it also increases inflammation, a real driver for illness, and it impairs immune system function. So, many of these excess deaths that lead to a 30% increase risk of a shorter lifespan are not because of suicides or overdose, drug overdoses. You could imagine loneliness could cause those, and it does. Those are factored out of these scientific analyzes. Most of the deaths are cardiovascular, it's heart attack, it's stroke, sometimes it's cancer death, or metabolic death. Disease and illness related to diabetes. It's important to know that loneliness unchecked, unattended to, when it spirals out of control can be very, very hard on our physical systems too, not just our mental attitudes. [BREAK] [0:13:50] PF: We'll be right back with Dr. Jeremy Nobel, but I wanted to take a moment to talk about how you can beat the heat and get better sleep this summer. I've become such a big fan of Cozy Earth sheets for a lot of reasons. But as the temperatures rise, I've found one more reason to make them the only sheets I want to sleep on. Thanks to their cutting-edge temperature regulating technology, Cozy Earth's bedding lets me stay cool and comfortable, even on the hottest days and nights. That means, I can wake up refreshed and ready for the day. Here's the best part, our exclusive offer for listeners like you gets you a 30% discount and a free item when you use COZY HAPPY at cozyearth.com/livehappynow. These sheets also offer the unbeatable combination of softness and durability, giving you an incredible, comfortable sleep experience. So, invest in your sleep health this summer and stay cool backed by Cozy Earth's 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty. Visit cozyearth.com/livehappynow, and use the code COZY HAPPY to unlock this special offer and optimize your sleep for better health. After placing your order, be sure to select podcast in the survey, and then select Live Happy Now in the drop-down menu that follows. Now, let's get back to my conversation with Dr. Jeremy Nobel. [INTERVIEW CONTINUES]   [0:15:10] PF: I recall, even, probably about 20 years ago, having a friend who was going through a divorce and she said, "I'm lonely." It struck me, because I think, that was the first time it actually had somebody say that to me, like it was almost a shameful thing to say, "I'm lonely." What was that mindset and does any of that still remain? [0:15:32] JN: We started Project UnLonely with three goals, Paula. One was to increase awareness of loneliness, and how toxic it can be for your health. The second, which is what we're going to talk about, is to reduce the stigma that surrounds it. The third is to put these powerful imagination, creativity-fueled programs out in the community, so people can be better engaged. But let's talk more about stigma. Many people feel that if they're lonely, it's their fault, that there's something about them, that they're broken, they're flawed, they're incomplete, they're inadequate. This is all just a social personal construction. That's what they believe. The only good news about that is that, anything that's socially and culturally constructed can be culturally reconstructed. So, I think we have an enormous opportunity. I first heard this idea from John Cacioppo, University of Chicago, who died, unfortunately. Shortly before the pandemic, it's a real pioneer in understanding loneliness, and how it impacts not just our brains, but our behaviors. He said, "Why don't we think about loneliness as a signal that there's something we need, a biologic signal? Just like thirst is a signal, we need hydration. Loneliness is a signal that every one of us needs some degree of human connection." Obviously, most people don't feel embarrassed or guilty about thirsty. Why do we feel embarrassed about being lonely? It goes back to this cultural assumption, in our cultural kind of matrix of, kind of how we put things together. People, as I said, feel that they're flawed. What if we can shift that to just say, "Hey, it's just a signal. What do I need now?" Human connection. "How do I find it? What type of loneliness do I have?" Then, you follow the reasonable paths to get better connected, either psychologically, or societally. or spiritually. [0:17:30] PF: As people become more willing to explore that, how is that going to open up the world a little bit better? You reference Gen Z and how they are incredibly lonely despite being connected. How, as we change this conversation, do you see the world is going to open up? [0:17:48] JN: All right. Here's an experiment I do when I do public speaking now. I ask people, raise your hand if you know someone who is seriously and significantly lonely. Not if you're lonely, but if you know someone. Hundred percent of the hands go up. Then, I say, "How many people have you heard say out loud, 'I'm lonely.'"? Only 50% of the hands go up. If this were even five years ago, only 10% of the hands will go up. So, we're making progress. We have a long way to go, but we're making progress. So, that's encouraging. I think a lot of it is the younger demographic that I mentioned, the loneliest demographic, 18 to 28 do seem willing to talk about their mental health and so on, and take the risk of being judged, criticized, excluded. I admire that courage. What we're trying to do with project and lonely is to actually also give them workshops. and programs that they can participate in, that are delivered not by us. We develop our programs and then they're delivered by colleges, by libraries, by faith-based groups, by community centers. Because as our surgeon general calls for in the report, you mentioned, we need to create a culture of connection, where it's not viewed as an illness or a flaw, loneliness. The connection is valued as something we celebrate at a personal level. We do it with friends, with family. We actively look for opportunities to get together and have the, sometimes just very simple conversations that can still be quite meaningful. They don't have to be deep, heart-to-heart disclosure conversation every time. It can be, "Hey, what's lighting you up these days?" "Let me tell you." "Oh." It's so important, these casual networks of human exchange, and not just social media, memes, and likes, and follows around short videos, but actual conversations in real life. [0:19:54] PF: Can just the acknowledgement, even to ourselves that we're lonely. Does that start changing things for us? [0:20:01] JN: I think it does if it isn't also associated with guilt and self-blame. So, to say, "I'm lonely because I'm a loser, and I've always been a loser", is not a very helpful step forward. But to say, "I'm lonely." But loneliness, and I truly believe this is the world's most human feeling, the need for other people. It's a signal that there's something I need. How do I follow that signal and lead myself forward to a path of personal discovery? Because I think if we're not comfortable knowing who we are, it's hard to have authentic conversations, and friendships with others. But then, how do I feel part of a bigger world where, "Yes, I exist as a person, but I'm part of a much bigger story." That often makes people feel better and feel connected. [0:20:48] PF: We all feel lonely time to time. But how does someone know if it's a problem, if it's chronic loneliness, versus just something we're going through right now? [0:20:58] JN: That's a really great question. I think part of that is really to pay a lot of attention to how you're doing, feeling in kind of navigating the world. In the book, I call this the pyramid of vulnerability. Imagine a pyramid with three layers. The bottom layer is where we all are all the time. Every human being, as I said, can feel lonely from time to time, so that's us. At that bottom layer, we should be trying to do things to build our social resilience, our social connection levels. But yet, no matter who you are in your life and all of our lives, we will be faced with challenges that really do increase our risk of loneliness. That moves us to the middle tier. So, that could be loss of a loved one, the breakup of relationship, a new serious illness, whatever it is, loss of a job, concern about some future event like the national elections. That starts a kind of risk for a spiral, where you start to withdraw. That's when it's most critical to say, "Okay. Am I starting to feel more anxious? Am I having trouble sleeping? Am I having trouble concentrating? Maybe it's because I'm lonely." Ask yourself that. Then, if you are, to go through this exploration, well, what type of loneliness is it. Then, follow the strategies to get connected. Because if you can interact at that middle tier of vulnerability, and then reduce the risk to spiral down into a good direction towards the base, you avoid spiraling up into the highest tier of loneliness. That's where loneliness becomes a serious medical issue, where it is like smoking 15 cigarettes a day, where you have a 30% increased risk of heart attack. or stroke. or death from either. But we don't have to get to that level if we can engage earlier and kind of reestablish balance, and a sense of comfort and connection, calm it down, so we're back down to the bottom tier. Does that make sense? [0:23:04] PF: It does. I wondered as you were talking, because once you reach that top level, it seems like it's going to be most difficult to pull yourself out. What then should those around you – because if I'm your friend and I see this, it's probably going to take some sort of intervention or outreach from me. Because once you hit that top, you're a goner, but you're in deep. [0:23:27] JN: You are in deep, and that's when you're really most in need. As you point out, it's often where you are least able to navigate your way out of it completely on your own. That's where one of the things we can do in building a culture of connection, is to kind of keep an eye out on our friends, family, even neighbors, and not be their therapist, not be their parent, but be their friend. Bear in mind how even a simple kind word, when you're passing by somebody on the street can totally change their day, can totally change their sense of optimism, of positive possibility, curiosity for that day. Stabilize them from what otherwise could be very difficult thoughts, sometimes thoughts of self-harm, and just kind of remind them that, "Hey, there's some positive things going on in the world. I'm out here too, and you're not alone, you're not broken, and you're not defective." It doesn't require a therapist to have these daily reminders that we're all human, we're all connected. We all feel lonely from time to time, but we can be part of a larger and connected story. I think the arts and imagination, obviously, can give us kind of fun ways to tell that story of being connected, and then share those stories with others. [0:24:42] PF: Yes. I love that your solution goes to the arts. Can you talk about the role that creative and artistic expression plays in combating loneliness? Then, give us some ideas for how people can use that in their own lives? [0:24:56] JN: Absolutely. I think, first of all, it's now really clear that arts and creative expression change the brain. When we change the brain, we change our minds. We change our minds, we change behaviors. Here's how arts change the brain. One major way the arts and all the arts, by the way work. So not just the traditional arts like music, visual art, language arts like poetry, movement arts like dance, but culinary arts, cooking. The creative assembly of food ingredients, the taste, the smell, the sensation in your mouth as you eat fun food. So, that's a creative form. Textile arts, these have been around for centuries. Knitting, crocheting, quilting, these are wonderful creative activities. Then, gardening. Just bringing four things from nature, what a friend of mine calls the world's slowest performance art form.   [0:25:54] PF: I love that.   [0:25:56] JN: These are how the arts can change us. They reduce cortisol levels, the stress hormone that puts us on edge, drives fight or flight, which means we're always hyper vigilant. That does increase inflammation. It's what alters the immune system. But the arts also increase levels of dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, the so-called feel-good hormones. Then, very importantly, the arts also change how we make sense of the social world. What otherwise we might see as threats, like somebody walking towards us through the arts, particularly the ones that increase our sense of compassion, empathy, that person can look like an opportunity, someone I can have a conversation with. That's kind of the cascade of how changes in the brain from the arts, then literally change our levels of optimism, possibility. Sometimes, this is all in the positive psychology realm, as you know. But then, most importantly, it changes how we behave. We're willing to smile at a stranger, we're willing to take the risk of even a little piece of casual conversation in the grocery store. Then, if you take that risk and people respond, it starts moving your brain and mind in a more positive way, and the positive spiral happens. This is why the arts, I think, can be such a catalyst for connection. [0:27:17] PF: I absolutely love that. Big question is, where do people start? [0:27:22] JN: I think, if it's around the arts, I think it comes back to curiosity. Explore the world in some creative form that you enjoy. If you don't know what you enjoy, yet, try different things. Try drawing, try just kind of move with colored markers on white paper, and just say, "How am I feeling today? We have prompts and activities for this on our website. Imagine a time in your life that was meaningful to you. Then. don't draw the experience. Let yourself feel the feelings associated with that time, and then try to draw the feelings using color and shade. There's no wrong answer to these exercises. So. you get it all out on the page. Then, in many of our workshops, what we do is, we do this as a group. We make the art on our own, but then we pair up and we tell our personal stories. That's the second really powerful things the arts do. They invite and allow us to share our stories. Because almost every creative form, whether it's a casserole, a chocolate chip cookie, or a Picasso painting is a form of a story. It's a narrative, we're trying to express something. So, the arts enable that. Then, the last thing the arts do, and I particularly feel this with certain kinds of music, is they kind of transform us to a kind of awe and wonder about the world. I feel this in poetry also. I'm a poet, and reading a poem by who might no longer even be alive with us can still make me feel like I'm a small but important part of a very big and very wonderful story. [0:29:03] PF: That's fantastic. Now, we're going to tell the listeners how they can find your website, how they can find your book. As you said, you have resources on the website so they can start doing some of these exercises. Your book has prompts and walks us through this. What is it that you want everyone listening to know and understand about loneliness? [0:29:23] JN: Let me go back to some of the things we talked about. By the way, thank you for helping get the word out. The other thing we have that's a lot of fun for people who aren't immediately willing to, "Oh, I'm going to make some art." Is, we use the power of the arts in the form of short films. We're now working with Steve Buscemi, the celebrated actor and filmmaker. He's an ambassador for what we call Project UnLonely Films. You come to our website and there's a whole portfolio of short films that look at loneliness and some of the major social territories in which they exist. So, trauma, aging, illness, difference, the modern world. You get to explore loneliness through the lens, literally, of someone who's making a film on it. Then, if you watch it with a few other people, you can just say, "Hey, what did we just watch?" and have a conversation. Don't overlook the opportunity. Come to our site, watch some of our films, sign up for our newsletter, so we'll send you a little link every week or two with a film and some conversation starters. So, there are lots of ways we can move from being a little bit cautious in a defensive crouch, which we're all in post-pandemic, to something a little bit more open-hearted, a little bit more open-minded. [0:30:40] PF: That is fantastic. The work you're doing is amazing. It's very necessary, and I truly believe it's going to help move that needle on loneliness in our society. So, I thank you for the work you're doing, first of all. Then, secondly, I really appreciate your time. It was an honor to sit down with you and talk about this. I know our listeners have gotten a lot out of this conversation. [0:31:00] JN: Thank you. It's my absolute pleasure, and even this conversation makes me feel more connected. So, thank you for that, too, Paula. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:31:08] PF: That was Dr. Jeremy Nobel, talking about loneliness. If you'd like to learn more about Jeremy, check out his book, Project UnLonely: Healing Our Crisis of Disconnection. Visit his website for resources or follow him on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every week, we'll drop a little bit of joy into your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.   [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Create a Healthy Relationship with Social Media With Giselle Ugarte [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 470 of Live Happy Now. As we wrap up Mental Health Awareness Month, it's a great time to talk about something that many experts believe is contributing to the problem. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and this week I'm joined by coach, speaker, and influencer, Giselle Ugarte, who helps people learn how to build their confidence, reframe their relationship with social media, and show up more authentically at work and in their personal lives. Giselle has seen firsthand how learning to use social media more mindfully can help deepen relationships and improve self-confidence, and she's here to tell us how we can make the most of those social media moments. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:46] PF: Giselle, welcome to Live Happy Now. [0:00:49] GU: Hello. I'm so happy to be here. [0:00:51] PF: Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited to talk to you. We want to talk about mental health and social media, and that is a huge topic. We could talk all month about it. [0:00:59] GU: No kidding. That’s my department. [0:01:00] PF: Oh, my gosh. [0:01:01] GU: I'm glad to be here to talk about it. [0:01:03] PF: Yeah. So, to start the conversation, I really wanted to talk about how oftentimes, when we have this discussion about social media and mental health, we're talking about younger users. It's not just kids that it's affecting, it's affecting older adults as well, right? [0:01:18] GU: It's affecting all of us, honestly, because even if it isn't social media, you know, social media is a reflection of the way that we use technology, and even the way that we have notifications running so much of our lives. Where we worry so much about today's kids, the reality is, is that the kids are also reflecting the habits and also, the insecurities of adults. We're hearing a lot of commentary right now about how this is the most anxious generation, I would also then challenge to take a look at some of our older generations as well in the ways in which we might be addicted to work, or perhaps, validation, or people pleasing. I really just think that social media is a mirror, or perhaps, amplification of some of what actually and already has been happening for decades long before social media existed. The difference is that now we can carry it in our pockets and take it home with us even when we are all alone. There are some benefits of that too, because there's also the side of, well, but wait a minute, with social media, we never actually have to be alone. It's actually removing a lot of stigmas and we talk about Mental Health Awareness Month. I know that for me personally, someone who has dealt with anxiety and spells of deep depression and even PTSD, I've changed my relationship with alcohol over time. For me, social media has actually been where I've gone to for conversation, for confidence as I learned to embrace my body and what healthy looks like to me. Social media has been where I've been able to create conversations with people who I perhaps never would have met in real life. Or maybe it was chit chat at a party, but we started following each other and realized that we were both on this same path of wanting to better ourselves. Social media was where we were able to find that community. I'm really excited to go into this conversation and explore different angles. Most importantly, to discover where we are in control and how we can better have a better relationship with social media every day, no matter how old you are. [0:03:18] PF: Right. I think some of the people that have the healthiest relationship with it are the elderly. I have an aunt who's 87, and she uses Facebook. Now, granted, she's not what I would call tech savvy. But if it weren't for Facebook, then we would not be in touch. She's not someone that's going to pick up a phone. We're not going to be in touch. And we have a very large extended family. Because of that, she doesn't have children of her own, but she is in touch with all her nieces and nephews and reach out. She's going through a lot of health challenges right now. She is getting the support that she simply could not have if it weren't for social media. [0:03:55] GU: I like to say that if you're not taking your online relationships offline, then you're seriously missing out. Absolutely, it is one of those things where we're able to keep in touch with people who, maybe we wouldn't otherwise. I would also say, and that brings up a really awesome point too, is that sometimes I have friends who will say, “Well, if I didn't have social media, then my family would never see my kids, or they'd never keep in touch with us.” To which I go, “Wait, hold on a second. Have we now gotten to a point to where social media is the only way that you're keeping in touch with your family, versus now we have things like group text and FaceTime where we actually need to take that relationship to another level?” [0:04:39] PF: So, are you indicating this might be a problem? [0:04:42] GU: Well, no. I'm not. But we all have to really take a look at our online habits and why do we do the things that we do. You mentioned you have this friend who had health challenges. How awesome how, for example, you have people who might be having health challenges, or God forbid, they go through something really tragic, they can use social media as a way to update a lot of people that otherwise, energetically, they might not be able to, or physically able to do so. Or you're able to maybe donate to someone who is seriously in need and going through something really, really difficult and you're able to have that support, maybe even from people who you haven't talked to in a really long time. With every ounce of negative, there's positive with positive, there are more ways to do good and in person, but I simply want people to be more intentional about all of their habits online and especially off. [0:05:33] PF: I love the positive things that can come out of it. I love seeing the fundraisers that take place and just the sense of community that you can create when you are intentional about it. We know that it's also doing a lot of things to knock people's self-confidence. That's something that you've addressed very well. I wondered if you could talk a little bit about what kind of impact it can have on your self-confidence. [0:05:57] GU: Absolutely. Well, I want to go back even 10 or 20 years ago. We can go back even further than that. I know that right now, we're getting a lot of that conversation around the millennials and then Gen Xers who are saying that social media is horrible for confidence. To that, I say, hold on a second. Let's go back to a time when our only media was TV and magazines. There was one standard of beauty. She was one color and one size. She was usually a size zero, or double zero and her legs were a million miles long. Maybe you would see her in that magazine and perhaps, that's what she looked like naturally, or maybe they did start to doctor some of those images. You wouldn't even necessarily know, because the FTC was not what it is today. Now you log into social media, you can see beauty in every single shape and color and size and age and level of success in a way that we never have been before. That's where I want to challenge anyone who says, “Hold on. Social media is killing my confidence,” to go, what are you looking at? Because now, you have choices. Before, we didn't have choices. We only had a certain amount of channels and whatever magazines that you were subscribed to. You get to decide who you follow. Now our feeds are a direct reflection of us. If what you're seeing is making you feel bad about yourself for any way, then you really need to either get your head right, or get your feed right. Typically, I then hear the argument, “Oh, but comparison is the thief of joy.” Comparison is only the thief of joy when you're coming at it from a place of lack, when you yourself are unhappy. That's where I really want to challenge you. Again, get your head right, get your feed right. Start your day rooted and gratitude with what you are thankful for, with what you are proud of, with ways that you do see yourself as beautiful. Because otherwise, yeah, everything you see, you're going to project your insecurities on that. I want you to follow people who look exactly like you. I want you to follow people who look nothing like you. I want you to follow people who give you aspirational and inspirational goals and motivate you without making you feel less than. If everything is making you feel less than, then maybe it is time to perhaps pause, or close the apps, or unfollow, or mute, or maybe even block for a moment because that does happen. But the conversation is so much bigger than just a social media feed. It's also, when you're dropping the kids off at school and you're seeing all of the other parents around you. It's also, when you're opening up your phone and you don't like what you see, or you're looking in the mirror and you don't like what you see. To which I say, it's time to own it or change it. Own it. Or if you don't like what you see, then change it. Even if you decide to change it, you still have to own it in some way, shape, or form. What I instead see people have happened is they end up turning on filters, for example, or multiple filters, for example, and they say, “Oh. Well, I'm just putting makeup on with this filter. Oh, I'm just giving myself some a tan.” Well, hold on a second. Why does that filter make your face look like a totally different shape? Why is it putting somebody else's eyes on top of your eyes? Why have you just aged 20 years less? Why do your pores not exist? All of a sudden, what you're doing is on your phone, you're creating this image that isn't actually real. It's no wonder that when you look in the mirror, you hate what you see. [0:09:30] PF: Yeah. Can we talk about this a little bit more? Because I recently went through this. I saw a friend. I was just like, “Oh, my God. She looks amazing.” I was talking – we used to live in Dallas, this woman lives in Dallas. I was talking to some other friends in Dallas, I'm like, “She looks so great. What is she doing?” They're like, “Filters, Paula. It's a filter.” I was like, “Oh, man.” What does that do to our psychology and our psyche when we are presenting ourselves one way, but that's not who we really are? How does that affect us? [0:10:03] GU: Absolutely. What it’s doing is it’s telling your brain that you don't think that you're good enough. For me personally, I believe things like makeup and fashion are actually a form of self-expression. Sometimes they can be disguises and armor, and that's fine, but the difference between a filter and say, filler, the injectable, is the filler goes with you, the filter does not. [0:10:27] PF: Right. [0:10:28] GU: My conversation and my expertise is purely around the use of technology and social media. The conversation around plastic surgery and makeup, that's something different entirely. Again, the difference is the filler will go with you. The filter does not. When you then look in the mirror at night, or when you look in somebody else's camera, or when your child takes a photo of you and you don't like what you see, a lot of that is because what you are lying to yourself doing. What I find to be so interesting is that a lot of my clients, I have a rule, no filters. No filters on Zoom. No filters on social media. To remove that filter. What's so interesting is how every single person, every single time, well, first of all, there's the resistance, which if it's not that deep, Giselle, if it's not that serious, Giselle, then why is it so hard for you to do? Why is it so hard? Once they actually remove it, what's so wild is the way that they begin to realize other ways that they've been creating filters in their life. Because you might even be thinking, “Well, Giselle, I don't even use filter,” which congratulations, you are miles and light years ahead in the confidence game. Where might you be hiding, or where might you perhaps be creating that highlight reel? Because I believe that there is this highlight reel of perfection that we are seeing, but oftentimes, the ones who are only seeing the highlight reel, you're also the one who's creating it, too. I believe that your highlight reel is actually comprised of the highs and the lows of the in-between moments. You can have your best day and your worst day on the same day. It's so important that we recognize that what we're seeing is just a fraction of someone's life. I hate when people say, social media is fake. Are there people online who are fake? Yes. Are there people who are in real life fake? Also, yes. The question is, is it actually fake, or is it just that you are creating a judgment on a single second of time? In that single second of time, it's possible that that family was happy and smiling and in the next second, it's possible that they were fighting. We've all had those days and those vacations where you were at screaming each other the whole time. Does that mean that you don't love each other? No. If somebody posts a picture of their happy family and then announces the next week that they're getting a divorce, does that mean that they were being fake? Or was she just doing her best on that particular day? You can have your best day and your worst day on the same day. That's part of the mental health acceptance that I want people to understand is that no, social media isn't fake. I actually think we were talking about, what does your mind tell yourself? When we say things like that, we're actually canceling ourselves out for achieving that thing ourselves. We're believing that, “Oh, that type of happiness can't be achieved. Oh, that type of family can't be achieved. Oh, that type of success can't be achieved,” because of the ways that we're knocking it from someone else, or we're trying to chip it away somehow. I wouldn't even realize the ways in which that too is also her bringing out confidence by saying, “Oh, you don't deserve that. Oh, you'll never have that.” Versus, “You know what? Good for her. You know what? Good for him.” [MESSAGE] [0:13:43] PF: We'll be right back with Giselle Ugarte. But right now, let's take a quick break to talk about clothing from Franne Golde. If you're hitting the road this summer, you'll want to check out this amazing line of wrinkle-free staples that you can dress up or down depending on the occasion. They're the perfect traveling companion, because they're flattering, comfortable, and were created by a Grammy-winning musician who knows the importance of looking good on the road. See for yourself at frannegolde.com/podcast and you can get 20% off your first order of $75 or more when you use the code HAPPY. That's F-R-A-N-N-E-G-O-L-D-E.com/podcast for 20% off your order of $75 or more with the code HAPPY. Now, let's get back to my talk with Giselle to learn more about how we can use social media more intentionally to improve our mental health. [INTERVIEW CONTINUED] [0:14:39] PF: If you start creating a practice where you do that, or you intentionally tell yourself, “I'm going to congratulate in my head, each person who celebrates something on Facebook.” Will that make a difference? Or you're saying like, you're cheering them on, whereas before, you might have been sitting there judging a little bit. [0:14:58] GU: I honestly believe it does, and I love how you said practice. Or maybe you didn't say it, but I heard it. But we do have to practice being happy for other people. I do believe that when we do that, it will come back in a form of gratitude for ourselves. It might feel sweet irony, a little fake and uncomfortable when you're forcing yourself to do that, but you're doing it for the goodness of your mind and perhaps, to melt away at your cold heart. It's gotten bitter over the years. Because let's just think about that for a moment. If you can't be happy for someone on their happiest day, whether it's their wedding, or their kid’s graduation, or they just got a new job, or they just bought a new house, or they moved, and your first instinct is, “Oh, must be nice. Oh, well, that's great that her husband got that or, oh, well, yeah, it must be easy for her to lose the weight.” Let's think about, hold on, where is that coming from? Where is the projected self-loathing frankly coming from? Where you decided to rule yourself out from that, or you became so bitter and nasty? We wouldn't want someone to be like that towards us on our day. Why are we doing that to them? Yes. Rather than just liking or continuing to scroll, something that I have also noticed with my clients is I always give them an assignment to turn passive scrolling into an actively engaged activity. Again, whenever we're scrolling, sometimes we're scrolling to numb, or we're scrolling because we want to be numb. We're just scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, not even paying attention, no concept of time. Maybe every now and then, we'll hit a like, or we'll double tap. I will give my clients the assignment of every time you open up the refrigerator, that is your social media, I want you to engage. If you see something, maybe it's someone you know, maybe they just accomplished something, or maybe they did something really difficult, or they shared something very vulnerable, rather than just to double tap something, write something, comment to them. Not just a little emoji, or a heart, but acknowledge it in a meaningful way. “Oh, my gosh, that's so exciting. I know how hard you have been working on that marathon. Oh, my gosh, you finally did it. I remember you talking about this years ago. Now you're finally learning how to ballroom dance. That's so awesome.” One more way that I've noticed my clients who were anxiously sometimes opening up that empty refrigerator that can be social media sometimes, all of a sudden going, “I think I got my fix.” They're not opening it up as often, because they were able to feel as if they did something productive. Whereas before, sometimes we open it up mindlessly hoping for that dopamine hit. Instead, they created their own dopamine hit by finding gratitude and happiness and celebration for someone, or something else. Then they end up putting their phone away. It makes sense if you think about it, don't you think? [0:18:13] PF: I love that. I love it, because we've all had that practice where we're like, just scrolling through there. It's like, there's nothing here. We hit refresh. Hoping better things will show up in our feed. If you think about it, these are people sharing their stories, however genuine or heartfelt they might be at that time. All we're doing is like, “Eh, that's not quite enough to keep me engaged.” Which is pretty crappy, because if they called you and said, “Hey, this happened,” you wouldn't be just like, “Mm. Call me back when you have something better.” [0:18:42] GU: Right. Or you would just ignore them completely from answering the phone. [0:18:47] PF: Right. I love that. What other tips do you have for being more mindful as you use social media, instead of being used by it? [0:18:54] GU: I love that you said that, because it's a phrase that I use very often, which is, is social media running you, or are you running your social media? The number one thing that I tell all of my clients is turn off your notifications, all of them, the likes, the comments, the DMs. The only time that I ever have notifications on for social media is if I'm specifically waiting for a message from someone who maybe doesn't have my phone number. It might be Facebook Marketplace, for example, or it might be my primary inbox on Instagram. It will be temporary. Only when that person really needs to get a hold of me, and they don't have my phone number. Otherwise, everything is turned completely off. When I'm checking my notifications, it's because I'm in control of it. I sometimes even take it a step further from my clients and I say, no email on your phone. No email on your phone, which sounds terrifying for so many people. What that ends up doing is oftentimes, whenever we get that email notification, even if it's from work, all of a sudden, that becomes the most important thing. [0:20:00] PF: Right. [0:20:01] GU: You will interrupt, disrupt whatever conversation, dinner, errand, or other important tasks that you were doing. It ends up actually taking up a lot of time for where you thought it only took five or 15 seconds, it maybe took 15 minutes. Or you ended up having to start that task that you were working on over again, or start that conversation over again. What ends up happening is if you take your email off of your phone, when you do your email at your desk, at your computer, you become more intentional and focused. Then you put your phone on do not disturb with the notifications turned off, and you have that time specifically to respond to whatever requests and clients that you need to get to as many times a day as you need. Hopefully, it's no more than maybe two to four times a day, versus every single 15 minutes of every single hour of every single day. [0:20:47] PF: Yeah. You start feeling yanked around. It's just like, I'm doing this, but then I just get pulled over here. One thing I've started doing is I don't even turn my phone on until after I eat breakfast, which a lot happens from the time I get up until after I eat breakfast. it was very difficult at first, because it's always like, “Okay, what work? What do my clients have? What do I need to do?” To be able to just breathe and say, nothing that that has to be done in the next two hours. It doesn't have to be done before 8.30 AM. Just enjoy life a little bit. [0:21:20] GU: That's absolutely one way to do it and determining what actually needs notifications, what actually needs sounds, what actually needs the flags and then visuals. I mean, some of you just have that default, everything has notification. When was the last time you really took the time to go, “What notifications are turned on? Which ones can I turn off?” Because I am someone who I do check my phone first thing in the morning. For me, it's a healthy experience. I have a healthy relationship with my phone. I want to make sure everyone is good. That doesn't mean that I'm then replying back to everybody. It does give me a sanity to be able to just unlock my phone, is everything good? No one's on fire. No one's in the hospital. Great. Now I can begin. Or I might use that as my inspiration and motivation, because when I do open up my feed, I see people who inspire me. I see things that motivate me, or I have my affirmation or my Bible versus that get me going on that particular day. I am in control of it. It's not in control of me. notifications, that is the biggest one. I even find sometimes that people feel they're going through withdrawals. Where because their phone isn't buzzing constantly, they then are flipping their phone over constantly. [0:22:32] PF: Really? [0:22:33] GU: Yes. That's where we sometimes have to take it a step further and go, okay, well, do we then have to have the phone in a different room? Because if you can't go to the bathroom, or sit in an elevator, or wait in a line without looking at your phone, we might need to check ourselves with where is that coming from? Where it's coming from is typically, validation, need for validation, or it might be an unhealthy relationship that you have with your job, or your boss, or your superiors, or your clients where you have no boundaries, whatsoever. That's also where we run into lack of confidence, because you are then running in this people pleasing loop, where you're constantly seeking the attention of other people, and/or how often have we gotten to the end of the day and it feels like we haven't done anything, because the whole day has been reactive. You're answering the email, answering the phone, answering the client, and never did you prioritize what you needed to do for yourself. That's also where I established a practice of making sure that somewhere in your day, you do have calendared in a phone-free section of time. Also, in your day, you do have calendared in the three most important things that you need to do today. You're three non-negotiables that you need to do today. Because where a lack of confidence also comes from is a lack of productivity, or feeling lazy, or feeling like you amount to nothing, or can't do very much. Even if you are going through a season of burnout, for you, the three most productive things that you might do might be going for a walk, might be taking a nap, might be writing in your journal. That might also be your unplugged moment of meditation. Having time that's carved out specifically and only for you, and not tied to your electronics. Those are little ways that if we keep those commitments to ourselves, we can also build off of confidence and also get rid of some of those addictions that we didn't even realize, “Oh, my gosh. Not only is my social media running me, but I am a slave to it. I didn't even realize.” [0:24:45] PF: Right. [0:24:46] GU: My gosh. If that's you, you can also set screen limits on your phone. That's where you can put time limits for your screen time, or time limits for specific apps. I have a social media screen time limit, so I actually just clump all of my social media apps together in that. Then I'll have the phone say, “Hey, you've hit your limit, or you have 15 minutes left.” Will I extend it? Yeah, I will sometimes. I totally will. At least I'm then becoming more aware versus not having anything at all. Or sometimes I might have it password protected if I need to, or if I'm feeling easily distracted. That's one more way that I'm able to stay focused and still make sure that I have control over my apps. Those are a few ways to get started, but I'm sure we could go on and on and on, but those are at least a couple places to keep going. [0:25:35] PF: That is such great advice. I wondered, you've worked with so many people. What changes have you seen in their wellbeing, in their – I know you're not a mental health professional, but you do see people and deal with their mental health struggles. What changes do you see in their wellbeing and mental health when they start implementing these practices? [0:25:56] GU: Yeah, and that's the thing too, is that I'm a certified high-performance coach. I work on confidence and clarity and time management and energy. At the root of it, it's a lot of those things. I see that people are better at managing their time, because of some of the simple ways in which they end up not having that same relationship with technology. I see confidence soar. Even taking it to the next level, one little productive thing that you can do is change your profile picture to your face and make sure that that face actually looks like you. When you have a face attached to your name, it makes your social media that much more personal. Also, when you can finally embrace what you look like now, versus maybe a headshot that you took before the pandemic, where we've all aged 20 years since. Things like that, it brings that relationship back. When we're engaging more, or even sharing more of ourselves, we see confidence go up, because you feel confident in your voice and that what you have to say matters. I actually see a lot of my clients feeling more comfortable, public speaking, or engaging in conversations, because of how they're active on social media. Setting boundaries. When we set screen time limits, or when we delete emails from our phone, or set our phone to do not disturb, or maybe we let our clients know that, “Hey, I don't take work calls after three,” those are things that we're doing as technological habits. I also see that crossover into other habits and boundaries and relationships as well. It's tiny little micro ways that we don't even realize we're taking our power back, that it starts showing up in every single area of your life. That's why I get really passionate about it, because where we can be so quick to blame social media and us as the victim, the reality is, is that you have a lot more power than you think. As soon as you start to slowly take that power back, it really does snowball into something so bigger, and you start to see the ways in which it's showing up in other areas, too. [0:27:53] PF: I love it. Giselle, that is a great way to wrap this up. You have so much to teach us. We are going to tell our listeners how they can find you. See, continue teaching us and we can keep learning from you. Thank you. Thank you so much for sitting down and talking to me about this today. [0:28:08] GU: Thank you. I love talking about it. My messaging, my inboxes are always open. If you found this conversation helpful, please, I would love to hear from you. Don't be passive. Send me a message, letting me know what you love most about this conversation. [0:28:22] PF: Thank you so much. [0:28:23] GU: Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:28:28] PF: That was Giselle Ugarte, talking about how to use social media to support our mental health. If you'd like to learn more about Giselle and the work she's doing, or follow her on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Live Happy Now, and if you aren't already receiving us every week, we invite you to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, feel free to drop us a review and let us know what you think of the show. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Supporting Mental Health Through Music With Brandon Staglin [INTRO] [00:00:04] PF: What’s up, everybody? This is Paula Felps, and you are listening to On a Positive Note. We've talked about how music can boost our mood and even help our bodies heal. Today, we're looking at what it can do for our mental health. For this episode, I'm talking with Brandon Staglin, co-founder and president of One Mind, a mental health nonprofit organization committed to improving brain health by supporting research and providing resources. Central to their mission is music, which Brandon explains has been an incredible healing tool in his own struggle with mental illness. He's here to talk about the One Mind music festival for brain health, and how that has helped build awareness for their mental health mission, and how he uses it for healing and connection in his own life. Let's have a listen. [EPISODE]   [0:00:51] PF: Brandon, thank you for joining me on On a Positive Note. [0:00:54] BS: Thank you, Paula. So much happy to be On a Positive Note, and it's a great day to talk about music and mental health. [0:01:00] PF: And you're a fantastic person to talk to about this subject. I've been following One Mind for a while. The work that you do is absolutely amazing. For those who haven't been following you, let's start by talking about what one mind is and what it does. [0:01:15] BS: One Mind is an organization that started 30 years ago, and it was founded by my family. My family founded One Mind, thanks to our shared experience with my schizophrenia diagnosis and recovery. I was diagnosed when I was 18 years old, back in 1990. It was an incredibly scary and dark time in my life, and in that of my whole family. There was a stretch of about a year when we didn't really know whether there would be any positive future for me at all. I was terrified that at any moment, I might go straight to hell, like I had this delusion in my mind that demons were after my soul, and that if I made any slight moral mistake, they pounce on me, and drive me off to hell for all eternity. It's just a terrifying thing to think every moment of every day, if you can imagine that. That drove me to exhaustion, and despair. Even though I was getting treatment for my mental illness, it wasn't working very well for the first six months. There were moments when I was so depressed that I felt suicidal, and moments where I seriously considering ending my life. Fortunately, I'm very grateful to be alive today. What saw me through those really dark times were three main factors in the beginning. One of them was the unconditional love of my family. They made sure I knew how deeply they loved me by telling me so in ways that reached me. There was a moment when I was shuffling around the house, just so dark, just so down, and depressed. My dad saw me there in the kitchen. He said, "There's a lot of love coming from here, Brandon." Even though I had not, I couldn't feel the love back at that moment. I wanted to feel that love again. That drove me to want to recover again, to be able to feel that love again for my family back with them again. That was a major factor in driving me to continue to work for getting well again. Then, other factors included a sense of purpose through staying involved with community activities, and volunteering, and education while I was recovering. As well as, early science-based medical care. From those experiences, I've learned principles that love is an important factor for life. That curiosity is also an important driver of motivation for people, and can lead to discoveries that can help people out there in the community. And that having a sense of purpose is essential to drive people forward toward recovery and toward a good life. Based on all we've learned through my experience in schizophrenia, my parents decided to found One Mind in 1995. They started out with the realization, learning from me, and from other families around us who had experienced similar challenges with our young ones. That the science was not up to par in terms of its ability to enable people to access treatments that were helpful for them in a way that would help them to get all the way to recovery. I was taking medications at the time that were somewhat helpful. But as I mentioned, they had not the full effect that I wanted, had terrible side effects. My parents realized, and now it's an important part of One Mind that precision medicine be a part of mental health care. Meaning that, science must develop ways to develop treatments that can help people right from their diagnosis, right in the very beginning of their illness. And not have to go through months and years of trial and error, and agony for finding something that could help them recover again. That was how we started One Mind. The very first event we had ever in 1995 called the Music Festival for Brain Health, and that's how music comes into play here in the conversation. [0:05:00] PF: I'm really curious to know why they built it around music, because you and I know now that that's such a natural tool for healing and for bringing people together. Wat was their thinking behind using music as the central focus of that event? [0:05:15] BS: The music festival was launched in 1995, with the intent that music could bring people together, as you say, in a way that transcends inhibitions, that transcends fears, and then brings people to have a deeper pour for each other, and love for each other in the moment, celebrating together. We call the music festival a celebration of life. Ever since the beginning, it's been like that. I remember in 2001, when September 11th happened in the United States. There was a lot of trepidation about whether we could put on the music festival. It was just days after that took place. But we did, we were able to get conductor to come, and orchestra to come. They played Ode to Joy during the music concert of that event, people were in tears. The conductor was just so overwhelmed by the response that he just – we have a photograph that he gave my mom this enthusiastic hug, and just the embrace was just great to see. But that's an example of how music can bring people together, and transcend fears, and overcome barriers to connection. Then, we make that a hallmark at the festival today. Basically, I make sure that everyone understands when they come to the festival, that it's a safe place to open up to each other about the challenges that they're facing with their mental health, and their families, and open place to talk about and share those experiences with each other. [0:06:45] PF: What else goes on? You have a concert, but you have events leading up to the concert as well throughout the day. Can you talk about the other things that happen before the music? [0:06:54] BS: Absolutely. It's a really special event, the music festival for brain health. It starts today with a science and innovation symposium, where we have the scientists who we fund, and support give talks about the amazing discoveries they're making. Every year, they come out with something new that blows me away, and really thrills the audience to know that these nutrients are coming down the line to help them and their families. We added on a component in the last year, in 2023 of innovation as well. We have a program called the One Line Rising Star Awards, which enables young, promising mental health scientists to make these discoveries toward better treatments, by giving them funding, and by giving them leadership training, so that they can grow their careers as influencers for better mental health research. And improve the field in ways that reflect the interests of people like me, like people, so many people out community who live with mental illness, and work to improve their lives. The other program that we offer through a science and innovation division at One Mind is called The One Mind Accelerator. Through this program, we help entrepreneurs who are taking some of the discoveries, like those our scientists have made, and turning them into products, and services, that can then be commercialized and scale to reach people all throughout our society. This is a kind of an outgrowth, our focus on science toward innovation. So, it's been a very successful 30 years of doing these programs now together. We've made some great breakthroughs, including ways to treat mental illness with electricity that are safe and actually remedy the symptoms using brain stimulation, including microbiome-based treatments for mental illness. Like what happens in your gut, the bacteria in your gut to treat depression, for example, and including peer support models for young people facing suicidality. Happy to expand more if you're interested later on. The gist of it is that, the scientists and innovators speak during the symposium of the music festival. That gives the audience so much hope to know that these innovations are coming down the line to help them and their families. [0:09:13] PF: Who's likely to attend the festival? [0:09:15] BS: Well, because the festival includes not only the science innovation symposium, but also, the most amazing wine tasting anywhere. [0:09:24] PF: Yes, you got three different – I feel like you have three different audiences for this. [0:09:28] BS: Yes. The festival goes like this. It includes the science innovation symposium, the wine tasting reception, following symposium. Then, there's the concert, which is kind of the highlight of the day. Then, there's the exclusive dinner up at my parent's home, at the top of our vineyard property in Napa Valley, which is where it takes place. That combination of events is something that really revs people up to be excited about the future for mental health and their families. Because it's a fundraiser, it helps them want to donate to support cause. Those are the four parts of the event. The kind of people coming would mainly include people with lived experience in their families of mental illness. So, families that have got young people, or brothers, or sisters who live with schizophrenia, who live with bipolar disorder, who live with major depression, eating disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder. We aim to help them have that sense of community at the festival, so they have that common bond, and reveling each other's company as well as in the events taking place. [0:10:35] PF: Let's talk about the music component of it and how that's really grown. When you first started, what kind of artists were you bringing in? Because you've got some – you have some very impressive lineups in the last few years. Talk about, when it first started, what was that like? [0:10:48] BS: Yes. We started out with orchestras playing, and we had celebrity conductors, conducting the orchestras. First year, we had Richard Williams, and another year, we had Ben Zander of the Boston Philharmonic, very charismatic conductor, who wrote a book called, The Art of Possibility. He's the one who conducted during the post September 11th festival that we had. Then, we evolved into jazz. We had Ramsay Lewis and his trio play. Then, we evolved into pop, and country, and R&B. Had artists like Gladys Knight, Brian Wilson performed, who was amazing. He totally brought it, he did it for no cost for us, because he believed in what we're doing. Then, we found artists like Jennifer Hudson, we had Tim McGraw, Sheryl Crow, and Lyle Lovett, and Jewel more recently. There's some really great stories about these artists and how they've been part of the festival. [0:11:42] PF: I know Jewel. I saw a lot of posts and things that she said about this, wrote about this. I would love to hear their experiences, because it's touching to me that there are so many artists are being so open about mental health, and how music has helped them. [0:11:57] BS: Yes. It's great to know that artists are being open about that, because it lets people know it's safe for them to talk about it too. These are role models for so many people, or at least people that feel close to through the music that they produce, and that they hear. So, yes, Jewel is actually a One Mind champion. She's an official ambassador for One Mind. We've worked with her for a few years now. She performed in 2022, as well as in 2014, so twice for us over the years.   [0:12:24] PF: Wow.   [0:12:24] BS: Yes. Had her back. She's just so great. She's been very open about her experiences, mental illness, and that's inspired a lot of people to know that recovery is possible for them to other artists who stood out, include Lyle Lovett, who lent me his guitar to play a song that I wrote about recovery from schizophrenia. That's a cause that is very dear to my heart to help people recovery is possible even from serious mental illness. There's still amazing things you can do left in life after recovery, during recovery. That song is called Horizons Left to Chase, and it's available on YouTube. When he lent me his guitar, like he was handing it to me like it's a baby or something. It was very gently, and making sure that I held it carefully. And I had it, and I say, "Okay. Well, here we go." I played it, and played my song. He listened very intently to the song like he was very interested. But people loved hearing the song too, which really gratified me. [0:13:19] PF: You have artists who perform who have talked openly about their struggles with mental health. Then, you have others who are just supportive of the mission. Is that correct? [0:13:28] BS: Yes. Yes, that's right. When Jennifer Hudson performed, she spoke a lot about her family's experiences with mental health. When Tim McGraw performed, he also supports brain injury, causes, and One Mind was involved in Brain Injury Research at that time. He was deeply involved in that. So many of the artists that I featured on brainwaves, that webcasts that I hosted for about 11 years were very open about their experiences with mental health, and mental illness. Artists deal with a lot of challenges with their mental health, and music is a way to kind of process those. I've personally discovered those experiences with music. [0:14:04] PF: That's what I'd really like to talk about, is how does music help people who are struggling with mental health. And if you have your own experiences that you can give us examples, that'd be fantastic. [0:14:14] BS: Yes, I'd love to do that. When I was about 35, it was about 17 years after I was initially diagnosed. I was into my recovery, but not fully well yet. I wasn't very socially adept, and so I didn't have a lot of friends or social connections that I could turn to for support, or just have fun with. So, I realized that if I learned to play guitar, I'd have a hobby that would be something that connect me to other people, as well as be something that I could really enjoy on my own. I took up guitar lessons that year, that was about quite a while ago, almost 20 years ago. I began to practice, and I found that playing guitar offers me amazing benefits. Not only is it a lot of fun, but it also helps me to focus, and to understand that I can feel real emotions. When people live with schizophrenia, we take medication so often, dampen our emotions due to the dopamine effects in the brain. The illness can have that effect to for people. Feeling the genuine emotions that the music brings out in me, is something that reconnects me to more parts of myself and makes me feel more whole as a human being, and a more spiritually full. Then, also the mastery aspect, like getting better at a practice is something that I love to engage in. It gives me a sense of humility to see how I'm not that adept yet at playing guitar, but I want to be better. So, it's a driving force for motivation in my life. [0:15:52] PF: Then, physically, it has so many great benefits too, because when you're playing and you sync with a rhythm, and you start, it has so many different physiological effects that you can benefit from as well. [0:16:05] BS: Yes. Just hearing the strings ring out when I'm tuning the guitar, focuses my mind, my attention, and it calms me down. I'm reading a book now called Your Brain on Art by Susan Magsamen and Ivy Ross. It was published last year, it's a New York Times bestseller, and it features my story in it, and how I've used music for my recovery. Susan Magsamen, who's the head of the International Arts and Minds Labs at Johns Hopkins University interviewed me year before and put my story in the book. But she talks about how music does affect the brain in the body, and how it can lower cortisol release, which is a stress hormone. It can put your body into a parasympathetic nervous system framework, so that you calm down and it aids your sleep. I experienced that too. I sleep so much better if I play guitar recently. It also brings in together so many different aspects of brain activity in sync with each other. That can kind of account for the experience I have of feeling more like a whole person after I play music, I think. [0:17:10] PF: Now, what about if you're just listening to music. Because I am a big proponent of playlists. I have a playlist for every mood, everything that can possibly happen in my life, I've got a playlist. I go to a playlist for it. How about that? Do you use recorded music as a way to manage emotions and regulate yourself? [0:17:28] BS: Yes, I do. I do. I really do. Like every morning when I'm driving to work or driving home from work, I put out some music to start the day well with things that are meaningful to me. Like songs that I really love, and bring me a sense of peace or inspiration. Many years ago, when I was first ill with schizophrenia, it was immensely beneficial to listen to my favorite songs that helped me to refocus on the moment and stopped associating into the psychosis that would be creeping up on me from time to time. Listening to music has been really something part of my life for like my entire life. It's a touchstone for me that helps me to cope and feel good. [0:18:08] PF: What are some of the things that musicians that you've talked with that perform at your festival? What are some of the ways that they say that it's helped their mental health? [0:18:17] BS: The musicians who perform the festivals, I haven't talked to them directly about how music benefits mental health, except for Jewel. She and I, during the dinner portion of the Music Festival event, in 2022, sat together at the dinner. So, I had a long conversation with her. For her, music has been a double-edged sword, it helps her to work through the challenges and experiences in her life, by articulating them, and kind of processing them through that lens of seeing them out there as a creation. But the thing that has come with her music is something that she wants to not have too much of, because fame can change people's perceptions of themselves, of the world around them, of reality. It can also impact your private life in so many ways. She has changed her genres many times throughout her career, and I really respect that she does this as a means to [inaudible 0:19:13] to be creative and create the kind of music that she wants to, and that's innovative for her, and brings her a sense of fulfillment, but keeps her fans guessing and on their toes at the same time. I have followed her throughout her career ever since the early 2000s, and all of her albums, even though she's been very multifaceted and eclectic in the genres that she's used. [0:19:33] PF: Yes. I had read an interview with her, where she said that she had intentionally stepped away right after she hit big, and she knew that this could be – it would be phenomenal for her career, but it can be very damaging for her mental health. So, she took a step back. I thought that was so wise and insightful for her to recognize what that could do to her. An artist, you're there to get famous, you're there to have a living you, and to have that right in front of you, and to be able to say, "But my mental health is more important," it's just absolutely incredible. [0:20:05] BS: Yes. It's incredibly wise to do it, like you say, and she has a song called Goodbye Alice in Wonderland on her album of the same name. She talks about in the song, in the lyrics that there's a difference between dreaming and pretending. She's found in her life through the fame that she's found that she doesn't want to pretend anymore. She wants to live a genuine life, and that's why she's leaving Wonderland, so to speak in the song. [0:20:32] PF: That's fantastic. There's so much good that comes out of music. One mind is doing so much good to help bridge music and mental health. For the people who are listening to this, if they have a family member who has recently been diagnosed, and things are becoming clearer, or if they have been living with this for a while, what is the thing that you want them to know about the journey that they're on? [0:20:57] BS: Yes. They should know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, that recovery is possible, even from the most serious of mental illnesses. That if you love somebody who's living with mental illness, you should also know that they're still them, even though they may not seem like them. Medication can change people's personalities, so can the illness. But deep inside, they're still who they who you've always known. And they can live a full and meaningful life again, if you continue to love and support them and access treatment that can help them. [0:21:29] PF: That's terrific, Brandon, we're going to tell everybody where they can find out more about the One Mind Music Festival. [0:21:35] BS: It's the One Mind Music Festival for Brain Health. This year, it's our 30th anniversary event. It's on September 7th 2024. We invite people to check out our website at music-festival.org to learn more about that wonderful event. [0:21:49] PF: All right, that is terrific. I appreciate you sitting down and talking with me today. It's been a pleasure to talk to you. Like I said, I've been following you for a while. It really is an honor to be able to chat with you about it. [0:21:59] BS: Thanks, Paula. It's great to talk to you too. I love your podcast and it's been great to be on. Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:22:07] PF: That was Brandon Staglin of One Mind, talking about music and mental health. If you'd like to learn more about One Mind, or the one Mind Music Festival for Brain Health, explore some of their resources, or follow them on social media, just visit livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of On a Positive Note and look forward to joining you again next time. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Becoming a Mindful Mother With Jennifer Mulholland [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 465 of Live Happy Now. In just a few days, we're going to celebrate Mother's Day. But the fact is, all the moms out there need to take time to celebrate themselves every day. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and today, I'm sitting down with Jennifer Mulholland, a working mom, conscious leadership expert, and co-author of the book, Leading with Light: Choosing Conscious Leadership When You're Ready for More. Jennifer's work focuses on cultivating presence and rediscovering the light within, and she's here to talk about how we can bring that business principle into our lives as mothers and how it can change the world for us and around us. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:47] PF: Jennifer, thank you for joining me on Live Happy Now. [0:00:49] JM: Thank you. It's so wonderful to be here today, Paula. [0:00:53] PF: We have a big day coming up, and that's Mother's Day. So, that's the perfect time to talk about something that you call mindful mothering. I was really taken by that phrase. I may have heard it before. But it landed with me differently when I received that email about you talking about that. So, I wonder to start things, if you could explain what it means to be a mindful mother. [0:01:16] JM: Lovely. Yes, I think, well, first of all, being a mother is such a gift that we've been given for those of us that have children, or mothering our pets, or mothering our parents. It comes in many different forms. But I really feel like we've just been given such an incredible gift to be in that role. Being a mindful mother really means being more aware, aligned, and intentional, and how we nurture those we care for, and how we nurture and care for ourselves. It's all too easy to be the givers, and the doers, and the coordinators, and the schedulers, and the lovers, and the band-aid-ers, and all the roles that mothering comes. It's too easy to leave ourselves out of that equation. So, being a mindful mother is really slowing down to be present with your way and how you care for others and how you care for yourself. [0:02:23] PF: That sounds amazing. We know that would have incredible results. You can tell just from thinking about it and how it feels when you think about that, you know it's going to have an incredible effect. But what happens in real life, when you're burning the candle at both ends, and the kids are going crazy, and all kinds of chaos is happening around you. How do you maintain that mindful mother state when everything around you is chaos? [0:02:49] JM: Yes. It's such a practice and it's a giant experiment. So, what works for me, may not work for you and we're all trying to figure it out. I would say, the old adage that we can't give what we don't have, I feel like is the routing of where I'm coming from with this kind of idea, in the sense that, to be mindful is to really be aware of what works for you and what doesn't. To be aligned with that and then be more intentional in how you show up. One of the greatest ways we can practice is practicing presence. Literally, being present with the micro-moment that shows up. Oftentimes, we are so hijacked as mothers, where we're doing one thing, and then we get a call from our child, or depending upon the age of your children, like you have a tug on your leg, or the door opens and it's all of a sudden, you're constantly distracted and multitasked and taken away from being present. So, practicing being present, pulling yourself back with whatever is in front of us. Because if a child or if a loved one comes in, then how can you be attentive with them fully? One of our greatest gifts is our presence. It's not necessarily what we're saying all the time, or the decisions that we're making, or the advice we're giving. It's the energy, it's the essence at which we show up in that exchange. Oftentimes, it's not verbal. Oftentimes, it's just the way we are when somebody is needing something from us. That can be a choice of whether it's frenetic, and distracted, and frustrated, and irritated because we've been interrupted for the 10 millionth time. That's human and we all get that place. Or it can be practice in a way that we really slow down and look to the other person of what are they needing from me right now? Do they need a solution? Do they need to be told? Do they need advice? Or do they just need my love and care, and I need a hold space for them, so they feel heard and seen and supported? So, they can figure it out. Man, that's the art of parenting, of just, when do you know when to shut up? When you don't know just to let your child figure it out for themselves? But you are really with them in that discovery. I feel like one of the routing of a practice is making sure that we are present with whatever is showing up in our field. Because when we are we actually take in more information. That's the awareness. We're able to see and sense and feel a lot more information coming in, that helps us attune and align to what is needed in the moment for ourselves and for the other person that's showing up. [0:06:10] PF: That goes completely into what you talk about in the business realm with conscious leadership and being present. How, as parents, as mothers, as women, do we learn how to start doing that? Because again, you talked about. It is a practice. It's something you can get up in the morning and say, “I'm going to be present today and I'm going to do this.” Then the fires start and they plan to go out the window. So, what are some of the tools that you use and that you give to others to help them learn how to be present? [0:06:42] JM: Well, one of the things, mantras I say, as soon as my feet hit the ground, when I wake up in the morning is, “I am fully embodied.” What that means for me is like my presence is fully in this vehicle and vessel. Because if it's not, we often kind of live in the realm of our heads. A lot of thinking. So, we kick into automatic habit of doing, doing, doing, and coordinating, and scheduling, and showing up, and driving, and all of the things that we do. Oftentimes that's coming from our headspace. So, really try and bring my awareness into my heart space and into the full body vehicle just with that mantra. It helps me ground so that I can listen to my body's cues. That is probably the number one hack that I think we miss a lot and in how our body speaks to us, giving us cues throughout the day of when we are feeling alive and aligned to our light within and when we're not. When we want to leave the room, when we want to procrastinate, when we want to pull back. When we live in our head, we kind of check out of our body's innate wisdom that's constantly giving us the cues of what works for us and what doesn't. One of the practices of being present is just tuning into how does my body feel in this moment? Am I leaning into this conversation? Am I feeling engaged? Do I want to learn more? Stay here? Am I curious? Or am I wanting to get the hell out of here as fast as I can? Am I frustrated? Am I distracted? Am I bored? Our bodies tell us that information all the time. So, I think as moms, as we're spinning a lot of plates and trying to be more mindful in the automatic role of giving, giving, giving, we forget that actually, if we can tune the attention back to mothering ourselves first, what does my body need in this moment? What is it telling me? What does my spirit soul, light, whatever you name it to be need, to feel calm, to feel peaceful, to feel connected? Your body will tell you. A great practice is, I love journal journaling. My business partner and I journal all the time. One great exercise is to literally write a letter to your body, or write a letter to your soul, or spirit, or light, or essence. And ask it what it needs from you, as if it was your inner child. So, if I'm exhausted and I am so tired at the end of the day, and I don't have any energy, and I'm gaining weight, and I'm feeling down, and I can't figure that out, write a letter to your body and ask what it needs. Your body will tell you. Just write, write, write what it’s saying. Or if you're feeling like, “Wow, I am so scattered and depleted by giving to all my relationships, and my partner, and my family, and my parents, I am just feeling depleted.” Ask your spirit, your light, what it needs to feel more alive, more connected. You'd be so surprised of the wisdom that you already have, we just forget to ask it. [0:10:26] PF: I love that. We do forget that we can tap into ourselves. We're always looking for a cup of coffee, or something else that's going to do that for us. You really talk about – what you're talking about is extreme self-care. It's not just taking a bubble bath. It's really taking care of your soul. It's more like soul care. As moms, it's often difficult to put ourselves first, to say like, “I am going to shut everything out and take care of myself.” But why is it important that women do that and take that time for self-care? How does that make them better as mothers? [MESSAGE] [0:11:03] PF: We'll be right back with Jennifer's answer about how moms can practice self-care. But right now, I wanted to share one of my favorite new indulgences. Discovering the incredibly luxurious bedding from Cozy Earth has completely changed the way I sleep. If you want to get some of the best sleep you've ever had, you need to check it out. I never dreamed that bedsheets could change your life. But Cozy Earth made a believer out of me with these super soft bamboo sheets. They not only feel amazing, but they come in so many beautiful colors that you'll find at least one that fits your style. What's even better is Cozy Earth is as convinced as I am that you'll love these sheets. So, they're offering a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty on every purchase. What have you got to lose? Not sleep. To sweeten the deal, we're giving you a discount so you can enjoy the luxury you deserve with Cozy Earth. So, head over to cozyearth.com and use promo code Happy 35 for an exclusive 35% off. That's cozyearth.com and use the promo code Happy 35. Now, let's get back to my talk with Jennifer and find out how practicing self-care makes us better mothers. [INTERVIEW CONTINUES] [0:12:14] JM: The world needs more love and care and connection and community and peace. I really believe like the feminine principle, the Divine Mother is here to help cultivate that state of being for ourselves and for all. If we desire that out there in a world where we wish that there's no more war, and we wish for more peace, the only way we are going to get to that as a society is to have that individually in ourselves. There's no better person equipped for that than the mother. Learning what self-care looks like to you, is I just want to say, it’s a giant experiment. Because I have gotten so frustrated myself of like, “Well, I know I need to care for myself. I don't freaking know how to do it. I don't know what I need and it changes.” So, give yourself more grace in experimenting and checking in, like, “What do I need and want in this moment? What would feel good?” I think that question, what feels good to me now is so helpful, and following the feeling of feeling good, is likely to lead to peace, and love, and more care, and nurturing. So, that feels like the playground. If we could follow the feeling of feeling good, more for ourselves, whatever that is, and that can change 10 times throughout the day, then we can really bring that state of calmness, of more peace and groundedness and connection to anybody we connect with, especially our families and loved ones. [0:14:14] PF: Yes. As you were talking, I could see just like putting it across my computer, what would feel good right now? Just so you have that constant reminder until you get into that rhythm of looking for that and seeking that out. In your work, because you work with so many different people. What do you see as the biggest obstacle to finding what is good for them? Because I know it's probably an obstacle we're putting up ourselves. [0:14:39] JM: I see so a lot of caregivers, that they're so good at caring for others and they've lost themselves, that they haven't put themselves in that relationship. Over time, that depletes us all, right? I've been one of them too. Just going, going, going and not even catching myself that – because it felt selfish in a way. Self-care, caring for self is not selfish. I just want to rearchitect that unconscious belief system that somehow we have to be humble, and be the givers, and the Wonder Women, and have the red capes to be able to come in, and be strong, and resilient, and know the answers, and know where we're going. And it's just bullshit, we don't, right? So, experimenting and being more gentle. One of the greatest barriers is lack of self-worth. I don't feel enough. I feel like I have to lose weight to be better. I have to dye my hair to be better. I have to have the right job to be better. I can't just be a mom. I have to be a working mom and I have to have a business and I have to be on this ladder and this trajectory. There’s so many conditions, unconsciously, I think that we have kind of layered ourselves with, and it's tricky, because it's not obvious. I think what I would love to, for other people, to give themselves permission to be human, and hear, and know that you're enough right now. That you have everything that you need to not only nurture others, but to nurture yourself in a more mindful, intentional way. We get to choose if the monkey mind, if the inner critic is getting louder and louder, and my confidence, or your confidence is going lower and lower, we get to choose when we're going to say, “How is that working for me? Is it working for me? Is it giving me the results I want?” If it's not, we get to choose. That's free will. We have this incredible ability to choose to not feed that narrative anymore. That's what gets in the way. The self-worth and society is, especially, in the United States. We are just being bombarded with Instagram ads and like model-type bodies, and this is the house you need to have. It beats you down after a while. [0:17:31] PF: How does that affect people as mothers? Because, again, they're getting that message of you shouldn't be doing this, and you should be all these things. And the normal female is like, “I'm not and I can't.” What does that do to us emotionally and mentally, when we're getting all these messages, that we should, we should, we should, and we're like, “I can't?” [0:17:56] JM: Right. Well, what has happened is that it's kicked in a response to do more. The opposite is the antidote, honestly. The less we do, the more space we have, the more space we create, the more space we give ourselves to be ourselves fully. We kind of can then start to subtly unplug from those unconscious messages, and cultural conditionings, and programs that kick us into this idea that we need to have more, do more, to be more. Where I'm sitting in practice is, “Well, what if I just were to be me? What would that look like?” That takes a lot of practice, to bring more of my full self to my children, instead of having such a schedule, to have space where there's no schedule, and there's room in those spaces for new connection, new insight to come through. If we're so overscheduled and we're on the hamster wheel seeking to be more, to do more, to have more, which is the kind of cultural machine in the United States. We just start to deplete because we're not restoring, we're not remembering who we are, and that who we are is a being, it's a human being. It's not a human doing, as we've all been kind of tricked to believe. [0:19:36] PF: I'd love to talk about how if a mother can change and learn to be a mindful mother can become more present, what is that going to teach her children? Because one thing we've talked about, just last week's podcast, we talked about Gen Z and the horrible state of mental health among young people, and what the surveys are showing us. Obviously, so much of it is your product of the home in which you're raised as well. So, if you become a mindful mother, what kind of gift are you giving your children? And how are you changing their experience when they become parents of their own? [0:20:12] JM: I come back to presence, because I think that is really getting hijacked to use that term, again, in society and with the technology that our attention spans have become so short in what we're able to sit with and be with. A mother's presence, unspoken, it's like the healing ointment that is needed. That may look like a deep connection with your child in that moment. It may just be sitting with them, not saying anything. It may be really deeply listening, not to fix, not to solve, not to give advice, but to listen to where they're coming from, as they share it. That seems to be a real helpful tool that if we can practice being present and not meeting our children in the frenetic bounce of subject to subject, multitask, multimedia, kind of state of affairs. If we can ground in learning how to quiet our own minds, we become less reactive, and we become more intentional in how we respond and participate in the care that we're giving. Again, we can't give that care unless we are giving that care to ourselves. So, I think with the Gen Z, we’re kind of in the state with mental health, where we have really bought our thinking. We're buying our low-quality thoughts. And we – [0:22:08] PF: I love how you put that. I've never heard it put that way and I love that. [0:22:12] JM: We're not taught to question them. We're taught to identify that those things, thoughts are me. That's who I am. Versus I'm in a low mood, I woke up feeling shitty, or whatever, and I'm having low-quality thinking right now. So, I'm actually not going to take my thinking so seriously, because I can't really trust it, because it's not really helpful. We get to choose what we're buying, and we just haven't really been educated or taught that we have a say in which thoughts we're going to digest. We do it so unconsciously. And the moment, we pull a thought down and digest it, guess what it does? It creates a feeling. That feeling then emanates and then we attract people that match that feeling. So, we have a society right now, and especially with the Gen Z generation, I feel like that they're being bombarded with so much negativity, and we don't have tools to help them navigate which thinking, which thoughts they're choosing, and which thoughts they're not. Now granted, there are many people that are in different states of mental health, that I don't want to diminish the causality, and the conditions that are so many different flavors that people have. But I do believe when we are present, we get to then more consciously choose which thoughts we're buying, and we want to bring into our digestive system, and create the feelings we want to have throughout the day and which ones we don't. [0:23:46] PF: I love the way you present that. It paints such a wonderful picture, and really sums it up. So, what do you want moms to think about? If you're talking directly to all the moms out there, what is the one thing that they should keep in mind say, beginning with this Mother's Day and then hearing through, to become more mindful, and to enjoy this journey of motherhood and life more? [0:24:12] JM: What do you really need for yourself to feel mothered? If you were to mother yourself, or if you are your own best friend, and you could wrap yourself in the care and the love and the nurturing that you really need, what you need today, tomorrow, this week, to feel more cared for? To feel more supported? To feel more gotten? To feel more loved? Try those things. Just do something for yourself. I would so encourage you to create space for yourself with yourself, with no one else. That can look like meditation. It could look like going for a walk outside in nature. It could look like journaling for five minutes on what you have to be grateful for. It could look like taking a yummy bath and putting bubbles in it. But just really mothering yourself is a learned practice. I didn't learn how to mother myself from my mom. I learned how to be a great mom to my children from my mom. But now, I'm like having to learn how do I mother myself? Mothering the mother within, I do feel like is a game changer to unlock this next level of capacity for our divine feminine that is wired to nurture. It's wired to naturally love, and include, and care, and create peace and harmony. Don't we want that for our families and communities in the world? So, I would encourage you as we go up to Mother's Day, to put yourself at that center and say, “What do I need to feel mothered? To feel nurtured? To feel loved?” And try it. [0:26:14] PF: I love it. That is a perfect way to wrap this up. You have a lot to teach us. We're going to tell our listeners how they can find your book, how they can find you, and learn more. But thank you. This is incredible conversation and I appreciate you coming and hanging out with me. [0:26:27] JM: Oh, thank you so much. To all the mothers out there, you're doing a great job and you're worth every single penny, every single second, and we're so grateful. I'm so grateful to walk this path with you. Thanks, Paula. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:26:46] PF: That was Jennifer Mulholland, talking about mindful motherhood. If you'd like to learn more about Jennifer, discover her book, Leading with Light, or follow her on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly live happy newsletter. Every week, we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one. [END]

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Living Better Longer With Caroline Paul [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:02] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 462 of Live Happy Now. We all have one thing in common, and that is that we are not getting any younger. But today's guest gives us a whole new way to approach the years ahead of us. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and today, I'm talking with New York Times bestselling author, Caroline Paul. Her new book, Tough Broad: From Boogie Boarding to Wing Walking―How Outdoor Adventure Improves Our Lives as We Age, turns some common myths about aging completely upside down. Combining stories of women who are embracing outdoor adventure in their later years with cultural and scientific research, Caroline gives us a roadmap for improving and enjoying the journey. Let's have a listen. [INTERVIEW] [0:00:46] PF: Caroline, thank you so much for joining us on Live Happy Now. [0:00:50] CP: I'm really happy to join you, Paula. It's going to be great. [0:00:53] PF: You have written an amazing book. First of all, the title describes you, tough broad. So, that had my attention immediately. But this book is so engaging and it's so inspiring, and in many ways, a call for us to up our game as we get older. So, I wanted to find out how this book came about, and really, who you are writing this for? [0:01:15] CP: Honestly, I was kind of writing for myself. I was 55 and looking around on my surfboard and seeing no women my age surfing. I'm not a really good surfer. So, I knew there was a lot of women who could be out there, but they just weren't out there. The same when I was on my electric skateboard. I saw no women my age, certainly no women older. And when I was flying my experimental planes, the same. But I saw men my age and men older. So, I started to think, “Well, I'm seeing 60 blank on the horizon. What is my future look like?” I decided to go and ask women who – because I wanted to keep outdoor adventure in my life, but maybe I wasn't supposed to. I kind of thought I was, but I wanted to go ask women who were there already. This is about those women. It's actually about fulfilling aging and those women explained it to me. [0:02:03] PF: Was it hard to find the people? Because you cover a lot of different types of activity and we'll get into that. But was it difficult to track these women down? [0:02:12] CP: It kind of was. I mean, first of all, women tend not to trumpet themselves on social media and stuff. So, you don't find them that way as much. Frankly, it felt like there weren't a lot of women out there doing these things. It turns out that they are out there. But what I did was I told everybody that I was working on this book and so people gave me names, and that started to snowball. Then, I did hire a researcher who found a lot of people. [0:02:38] PF: Okay. That makes sense, because one thing that we really work on here at Live Happy Now is to make sure that we back everything with science. And your book, the stories are so rich, but every one of them is backed by the science of what it's doing for us. How did that all – how did you marry all that? Did the story come first, and then you did research on what it was doing? Or how did those two components come together? [0:03:03] CP: Honestly, I was going to throw myself sort of like the paraglider that I was, off a cliff, and with an inflated, shoot and float around and talk to these women, and see how the book would come about. But I knew I didn't want it to be – it's not a book about profiles about women. This is a book about fulfilling aging in the outdoors. How the outdoors optimizes that. So, in a weird way, the pandemic was good for me, because it hit just as I was about to go interview people so nobody could talk to me. I had to sit down and do a lot of research about fulfilling aging. And I started to see what we needed to keep in our lives, and I was thinking about how outdoor adventure married perfectly with that. I went out and interviewed people doing specific adventures. I went and did the adventures with them. I usually had a specific idea of where that adventure would fit in to what I considered the five pillars of healthy aging. Usually, it came out completely surprised by something new. I was constantly schooled in this book, because again, it was a quest. [0:04:05] PF: Yes. Can we talk about those five pillars? [0:04:08] CP: Yes. The first four are pretty obvious. It’s we need, and we need as human beings, but they tend to fall away as we age. So, we have to be specifically cognizant that we need community. We need purpose. We need health. We need novelty. Those four things are really important as we age and they are harder to find. The last one, the one that intrigued me the most, the one that I actually started off with was we need a positive mindset about our own aging. The reason I say that is because I was interested in the messaging that we get as older women, because I had a feeling that was why these women weren't out there in the water with me are in the air with me. Because the messaging about women aging is really toxic and subliminal and insidious and we tend to believe it and the people around us believe it. It's basically that our future is one of declining cognitive health, frail bones, and increasing irrelevance. I mean, frankly, we're boring. You'll hear – I mean, I hear this from a lot of my peers who were disheartened about their own aging. We feel invisible. We feel invisible to the culture. So, I was interested in that messaging. Then, I found research that made it even more important to pay attention to because the research says that the way we look at our own aging predicts how well we age. That means negative view of aging, you actually have a significantly higher chance of a cardiac event earlier, cognitive decline earlier, and the opposite is true. If you look at your aging as a time of vitality and exploration, then you are going to be healthier, happier, and statistically, you live seven years longer. That seemed really important, and kind of mind-blowing. But the scientists had told us this, but they didn't say how to get that positive mindset. Of course, when something, how are we going to do that in the face of such difficult and disheartening messaging, and I had a feeling that the key was an outdoor adventure. [0:06:17] PF: It was, as we discover in your book. And I want to go back to what you were just talking about, and the research about how you aging affects how you age. Because it even changes your brain. Weren't you saying that in the book, it talks about the brain of a person who had negative perceptions is actually different after death than someone who had positive perceptions about aging. [0:06:39] CP: Yes, they had all those tangles and the neural ill health that signifies memory loss. I mean, they have actually shown that conversely, if you have a positive view on aging, you have a much higher chance of not turning on that AOPE4 gene that makes you more predisposed to Alzheimer's. That's pretty big. But we think it's inevitable when we see both our parents or our grandparents have Alzheimer's. We have that gene, but it's actually not. [0:07:10] PF: That is so interesting, because we just talked about the World Happiness Report last week, which came out, and one of the chapters was about well-being and dementia. It backs up everything that you talk about in your book where they had done all this research, and people who had a positive view of aging were less likely to develop dementia. At the same time, people with dementia who had a positive attitude, fared better with that dementia. It was really interesting to me to receive this report at the same time I'm reading your book because it was just like this companion research piece. I love how you bring in the adventurer. I wanted to know as I read this, it seems like you were probably always adventurous, and what about women who haven't been adventurous throughout their lives? How can they turn into someone who is a little bit more adventurous and try some of these things? [0:08:05] CP: Yes. After I did my research, I was clear that the outdoors is really good for us. So, just getting outside is super important. Because as the science shows, it's medicinal. From the tree chemicals that are emitted, to bird song, to even the architecture of like horizon lines that are soft and rounded, and the fractal nature of the outdoors is all really good for our well-being. On a biological level, it improves our immune system. It also makes it so our brain processes less noise, which makes it healthier and able to deal with what we really want to deal with. So, people who took walks outside, for instance, tested better on cognitive and memory tests afterwards. Your brain wasn't doing the busy work when it has to filter out noise, and just all this information that urban environments in the indoors, computers and stuff give you. So, I wanted them to get outside. I knew that adventure wasn't for everybody, at least my definition of adventure, which is fairly was fairly high octane. So, I wanted to talk to all different kinds of people who got outside. Among them, for instance, was I went birdwatching. Birdwatching, no one would think of as an adventurer, including me. In fact, I was kind of like, “Yes, I'm doing a book about outdoor adventure.” Then, in my head, I was like, “You're not an adventure but I'm going to include you because I wanted everybody out there.” But it turns out, and all the bird watchers already know this, that bird watching is an adventure. Because there was the quest of trying to see the bird. There was the exhilaration when you saw it. There was the physical vitality because we actually walked and I was with Virginia Rose who's actually in a wheelchair, and so she wheeled six miles. There was a physical vitality of an adventure. Basically, birdwatching had all the rhythms of an adventure and I had to – during the quest of that, was my book. One of the things that happened to me is I had to change, I'd expand my view of adventure and realize it's not about the actual action. It's about how you feel during it. So, if you're accessing your exploratory side, feeling exhilaration, pushing maybe a comfort zone, feeling physical, vital. That's an adventure. That was exciting to me. [0:10:21] PF: One thing that you talk about, and I love this, because we've talked about it on the show, is the importance of awe, and how changing that can be to even just take a walk and experience awe. Can you kind of talk about that a little bit? [0:10:35] CP: Yes. Well, it turns out another great reason why the outdoors is so healthy for us is that it's a surefire trigger for awe. Because all is that feeling that you get in the presence of something bigger. It's something that religion has used mostly, and we associated with religion. But in fact, we feel it when we look at the big sky. We look at the Grand Canyon. Of course, I felt it on some of my adventures. But it turns out, you don't have to go. I mean, it is in the presence of something bigger that you feel, but you can also access awe. You can cultivate awe. They did studies on this here in San Francisco, where the researchers asked people between the ages of 60 and 80 to go on walks, and simply look at things with childlike wonder, with fresh childlike eyes, I think is a quote. They were basically getting their participants to access awe. Then, they had a control group that just walked like we all walk, which is we ruminate and look at our phones. And they found after eight weeks that the people who were doing the awe walks had measurably different inflammatory markers. It went way down. Inflammation is a big sign of ill health. They reported feeling weightless, anxious, and depressed. And this was kind of crazy, they felt more compassion and gratitude, which makes sense, because awe is about seeing yourself in a larger picture. So, it made sense that they feel gratitude and compassion because you feel interconnected. The other thing is, is that we live in a world of anti-awe devices, especially inside. Our phone, our computer, it's all narrowing our focus, and making us seem like we have a lot of power and control. That's the opposite of awe. It's not that good for us. It gives us an inflated sense of ourselves and that's not healthy. So, awe is good for us. Getting outside is a really easy way to access awe. [0:12:25] PF: Yes, it is simple, and it's like, if you get out every day and you do it, it will absolutely change the way that you see the world. As you bring up so many times throughout the book, your mindset makes such a difference in how you age. So, as you look at how you're changing your mindset, what role does awe in developing positivity? [0:12:49] CP: Well, I mean, I think that, just because it does – one of the things they call awe is a reset button for the brain. What it does is that it changes your neural patterns. It kind of shakes them up. It kind of opens them up. You become more open to new ideas. They found more creative. And all that is really important for, well, anything in your life, but certainly for your just exploratory spirit, and your sense that there's more to do, more to access, just that openness. So, yes, awe is indispensable for our emotional well-being. [0:13:25] PF: You talked about how good it is to be out in nature. But in the book, you really drill down into the combination of nature and movement. [0:13:33] CP: Yes. Specifically, I was interested in ironically, not movement, but the brain. I wanted to know how a novelty was good for us, because I knew that one of the big things we worry about as we age is our memory. We need to keep challenging our brain. There is a sense that our brain is hardening, that we can't learn new things, and that it's probably withering away too. Well, it turns out, that's not true. The brain is highly plastic. It is laying down new neural pathways, growing new brain cells, well into older age. I don't even know if it ever stops. Even if you slow down some of the neural pathways for some reason, the brain then decides – they'll figure out how to lay different routes. It's almost like taking a different exit on the highway. I mean, the brain is amazing. So, you can continue to learn and you continue to explore. One of the things I did was I was interested in memory, because we're afraid of losing that. It turns out navigation and memory are in the same parts of our brain. So, I wanted to find someone who navigated in their outdoor sport. I found it orienteer. I went orienteering, which is basically when you race from a start line to a finish line, but you stop on checkpoints on the way that are on your map. Using your map, she called it running with a map and compass but she really call it running and thinking. [Inaudible 0:14:56]. What I found was that researched showed that if you actually are physically moving, you are more creative in your brain. Because our brain is not like a computer. A lot of great thinkers like Einstein would go on walks, and they would come up with great ideas during or after, because there is a way that they have shown that if you use your kinetic self, when you are thinking of an idea, you have a greater chance of solving it. So, an all waves movement, which is obviously important, physically is also good neurally. Also, then you feel better about yourself. [0:15:37] PF: I love that. We've become a society that's just sitting down and stuck in front of a screen and not trying to go outside and get creativity that way. We're trying to find it within. To change that – [0:15:50] CP: We’re on the Internet. [0:15:52] PF: Yes. I'll just Google that. I'll get my OpenAI and write that for me. But it is, like to be able to change that thinking, what have you seen it do either for yourself or someone else to start adopting that approach of saying, “I'm going to get up and move because I'm stuck on this problem.” [0:16:12] CP: Well, let me just say, I'll back up just a tiny bit and just say that. Back to that messaging about how we view ourselves, we have all these sort of subtle ideas about our own limitations as older women, especially because of the messaging that we get, and that's what's stopping us from going outside a lot. Because again, the messaging is about how frail and kind of incompetent we are, and boring, like I said. It's just a sense that our life is narrowing down. But what I found with the women I interviewed, especially the ones that had never gone outside before, that when they did – so, for instance, I went boogie boarding with a bunch of women in San Diego, and they were between the ages of 60 and in their 90s playing in the water. I talked to someone named Lorraine Voight. At 60, she saw these women when she was walking on the beach during the pandemic, and she thought, “Oh, they're having fun.” But she had no outdoor experience. She didn't even like the water. But it was that inflection point. It's the pandemic and she had had really tough 50s with deaths and just a lot of like reversals in her life. It was kind of a what the heck moment, probably, and she got in the water with them, and she was hooked. But not only did she love boogie boarding, she said to me, “Caroline, boogie boarding changed my life.” Now, boogie boarding is a very simple activity. That's something that kids do. I mean, you really are just – you’re just on a little floatation and just let the wave push you to shore. How could it change your life? I asked her, “How could it change your life?” She said, “Basically, look at the big cold Pacific Ocean. Look at the tumbling that happens. Look at the fun I'm having.” Basically, what she was telling me, she had up ended her own expectations of herself by simply taking those steps into the water. Because of that, it opened up all these other things about what she could do. [0:18:02] PF: I love that you bring up fun, because as adults, we tend to forget how important that is. Adventure is fun. It can be terrifying. But also, it's fun, and we need to be able to bring fun into our lives. [0:18:19] CP: Well, I looked into play, which is an actual science. I mean, people look into the benefits of play, and it's incredibly important. I mean, it's what we do to get to know ourselves better, and the people around us and community. I mean, that's what we did as kids. That's what dogs do in the dog park. You're right. It's actually a trust exercise. It's actually, obviously, you're getting physical vitality, but then there's lots of connection because there's a dance to it. Yes, play is important, and it's especially something that we lose not just as adults, but as women, because we're sort of expected to be such a certain way and trod such a particular path. Really, women are really watched a lot during their life in certain ways and judged. So, play is something that is scary for us because it's an abandon that – I say the word unruly in the book, and I think that's really apt. Unruly is an unusual way to describe women. We don't want to be described that way usually. But play is really good for us and it lets loose this sense of judgment. You don't care what other think and you're simply connecting with somebody else. [0:19:28] PF: So, as women are listening to this, and they're saying, “Oh, my God. I want to be her. I want to do that.” But there's something that holds us back. It's like, “Oh, my husband, my spouse, my kids, whatever. What will the neighbors think?” Kind of thing. How do we break out of that kind of thinking of like, “Yes, that's great. I wish I could, but I can't.” [0:19:51] CP: I've heard this a lot from people and it is hard to break out of our comfort zone. Especially, as women, we're not really taught to. I think men are often given training for very young age to kind of burst out and try new things and explore on your own and do it on your own. We are not. I did a lot of research on this for my book for girls. We are basically taught to be fearful about a lot of things at a very young age, which means we don't have that exploratory spirit, and we don't trust ourselves. Here's what I say, I say, I'm just trying to convince you how good it is for you to go outside and have an activity outside, and experience those aspects of adventure, like I said. So, if you believe me on that, you take pharmaceuticals, for whatever ails you, because you think it's going to make you feel better. There are always side effects. In fact, there's a very long list of side effects that are really unpleasant. They look like vomiting, diarrhea, don't drive ahead a vehicle. I could go on. I mean, you see them on the TV. If going outside your comfort zone or feeling a little fear, feels like something insurmountable, I urge you to think of it as just a little side effect of this incredibly health-giving pill that you're going to take. It is not only health-giving, but it's just going to open up your life in ways that I want you to tell me after you do it. Because again, as a rebuke to all the messaging you get, you find out things about yourself in the smoke without even trying. It's not like you're sitting down at a test and being like, “Now, I have to figure out about myself.” No, you're just going outside to birdwatch. That's what I just say. It's a side effect. I want you to take a small step. Do not fly a gyrocopter like I did for the book. [0:21:31] PF: But that was a great story. [0:21:33] CP: Do not BASE jump like somebody else I interviewed. Do not scuba dive like Louise Wholey who's 80. Don't do that. Take a walk with a friend. Do not learn to swim, maybe, like [inaudible 0:21:44] did. But go to the ocean and play in the side of the waves. Just push your comfort zone a tiny bit and I think it'll start to somersault as you find that – first of all, let me add one more thing, which is that every woman told me who was older than me that the 60s was their favorite decade. [0:22:02] PF: I love that. [0:22:04] CP: I know. It was unbelievable, because we're not told that. We're told that our best years are behind us. I remember my supposed best years and they were angst-filled and insecure. Now, I feel great. I enjoy everything, because I have that capacity to do it. So, we cannot let this slip by, by giving in to things like a little fear, like a little discomfort about our comfort zone. Because it's such an opportunity. It will be the best decade of your life or if you're past 60, the 70s, the 80s. [0:22:34] PF: I had an aunt who died at, she was either 96 or 97. I can't remember which. She had told me when I was younger, I was a lot like her. I tended to speak whatever was on my mind. She explained me like, “Yes, you will get in trouble. As a child, they're going to say you're insolent. As a young adult, they're going to say you're immature. As a middle-aged person, they're going to be like, we're not really sure about her.” She goes, “Once you hit 60, you can say anything you want, then now, you're the quirky fun person.” I was like, “Oh, man, so she really had me like looking forward to this.” [0:23:09] CP: We’re underestimated, and sometimes it's good to be underestimated and so – [0:23:13] PF: Exactly. [0:23:15] CP: You're invisible. Go do what you want. [0:23:17] PF: See if anyone finds out. You interviewed so many different women. You tell such great stories. One way I look at this book is as kind of like a catalogue of adventures that you could try. Like, “Oh, I never even thought about that.” I wondered if there was any single person or adventure that affected you most? [0:23:41] CP: All these women were amazing to me. I mean, I looked at women who were of different races, because I know that it's really hard for people of color to feel welcome outside. Of course, different abilities and different knowledge. Everybody amazed me. I feel like that since I mean really honestly, the chapter that was the most moving to me, of course, was writing about my own mother, who turns out was my subliminal messaging that made me blossom because I saw the way she opened up as she aged. That chapter was, of course, really important for me to write and difficult, and perhaps the most moving. [0:24:19] PF: Yes. Did you have any surprise learnings when you set out to write a book – [0:24:23] CP: Every single time. No, I came in with a swagger like, “This is an adventure.” Then, realized, when I went on a walk with a 93-year-old, just a mere walk was eye-opening and exhilarating because of the way she did it. She looked at everything. She quoted poetry while we did it. She looked at the sky, she looked at the birds. I mean, basically we went on an awe walk. I hadn't yet discovered awe, because awe discovered in this book. I did not understand that concept at all until I found it myself. But I had gone on an awe walk with dot. So, I guess I was just continually surprised. [0:25:04] PF: And as you look back on the experience of writing it, what was your biggest learning, would you say? [0:25:10] CP: Well, that, a small thing like an outdoor adventure will cover all the pillars of healthy aging. People say, but I can go to a book club, or I go to the gym, and all that is great. You got to do that too. But I'm just saying, it's to have the whole enchilada, basically, of community, purpose, novelty, vitality, and keep surprising and up ending expectations. Keep that positive mindset about your own aging. It's really an outdoor activity that will do it for you. Here's my final thing is that, with the climate chaos, we need to get out because it's disappearing. We only save what we love, as somebody said, someone very smart. So, if we begin to see just how vital the outdoors is, maybe we can save it before it's too late. [0:25:56] PF: I love that. I love that. Caroline, you have written a fantastic book. We are going to tell our listeners where they can find it. I strongly encourage them to pick it up during your 50s or up, or if you know someone, it is truly one of those books that gives so much inspiration, and even excitement about moving into the next 30 years. First of all, thank you for writing it, and then thank you for coming on the show and talking about it. [0:26:19] CP: Such an honor. Thank you, Paula. Thank you. [END OF INTERVIEW] [0:26:25] PF: That was Caroline Paul, talking about how outdoor adventure improves our lives as we age. If you'd like to learn more about Caroline, follow her on social media, or buy a copy of her book, Tough Broad. Just visit us at livehappy.com and click on the podcast tab. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our weekly Live Happy newsletter. Every Tuesday, we'll drop a little bit of joy in your inbox with the latest stories, podcast info, and even a happy song of the week. That is all we have time for today. We'll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.   [END]