Transcript - How Music Helps During Hard Times With Scott Crabtree

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: How Music Helps During Hard Times With Scott Crabtree

[INTRO]

[00:00:04] PF: What’s up, everybody? This is Paula Felps, and you are listening to On a Positive Note.

Scott Crabtree founded the company Happy Brain Science to help others discover well-being rooted in positive psychology. And as a semi-professional musician, he knows firsthand how we can use music as a tool for boosting our mood and regulating our emotions.

During difficult times, music can be particularly helpful, and in this episode, Scott sits down with me to talk about why music is so good for your brain, how it can help us find a state of flow, and how songwriting is a great tool for releasing emotions. Let’s have a listen.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:00:41] PF: Scott, thank you for sitting down with me today.

[0:00:44] SC: It’s all my pleasure, Paula. Thanks for having me.

[0:00:46] PF: Oh, I’m excited. I’ve known you for a few years, but it was only recently that I found out that you’re a semi-professional musician. I can’t believe that that was never even on my radar screen. So, tell me about that part of your life.

[0:01:02] SC: Well, it’s been there, basically, as long as I can remember because my mom was an elementary school music teacher.

[0:01:07] PF: Oh, my gosh.

[0:01:07] SC: So, when I was a wee child, my mother, Erika Hartman, was sitting with me going, “Ta-ta-ti-ti-ta,” and things like that. So, I learned piano from her, among other things, and then took clarinet, where I earned the name “Squeaky” in middle school, I think it was.

[0:01:29] PF: There’s something to hang on to.

[0:01:33] SC: And then I played trumpet, and then I left music behind for several years. It’s interesting because I think it’s possible I would have never rekindled it. But when I got to college, I thought, well, maybe I’ll try drums because I’m fond of saying my fine motor skills are gross, but my gross motor skills are fine. So, I tried drumming and all that ta-ta-ti-ti-ta that my mom did with me must have stuck because I just really took to drumming. Drums was my main instrument for decades, and I absolutely loved playing in bands in college and afterwards.

Then I went away to live in New Zealand for a year I came back and the bass player that I had been playing with was playing with another friend of mine who’s a good drummer and they came to me in 2004 and said, “How about you sing and play guitar in our band?” I said, “You know, I don’t sing or play guitar very well.” And they said, “Oh, you’ll be fine.” And then I’ve been singing and playing guitar more than anything else since then. In recent years have really reignited my passion for songwriting.

So, I have everything from original songs that we play out as bands to a little ditty about the science of happiness that I put out on YouTube a while back.

[0:03:00] PF: I absolutely love that. So, what kind of music do you play in your band?

[0:03:04] SC: Well, I’m in two bands. So, I drum in a band called the Gypsy Travelers, founded by a real authentic Gypsy of Roman descent. So, we play some originals, including songs I’ve written, but also a lot of sort of blues rock end of the spectrum, I would say. Really fun stuff to drum and to play. Then my other band is called Haystack Jack, and we are a more folk-acoustic, foursome, two-guitars, bass, and mandolin. And that is also mostly original music, but the occasional cover by Bob Dylan or somebody great like them.

[0:03:46] PF: I love that. So, when it comes to making music, do you have a preference of writing songs or performing them? Or is it just such two different worlds that we can’t compare?

[0:03:59] SC: It really is two different worlds, Paula. I think it’s hard to be objective about
yourself, right? The point is not to be great. It’s to enjoy what you’re doing and have a meaningful connection with other people, but I think I’m a better songwriter than I am a performer. I don’t know. Hopefully, I’m no slouch. I consider drums my best instrument, but I don’t have a world-class voice. I don’t have a voice that makes people go, “Who is that singing?”

[0:04:26] PF: Get him on American Idol now.

[0:04:29] SC: Exactly. So, I have really leaned into the songwriting because it’s something you can keep improving at. And of course, I’m taking singing lessons and practicing guitar and drums and trying to get better at all that stuff. I still play trumpet and have learned harmonica recently and blah, blah, blah. But songwriting to me has really turned into a passion that I can lean into and learn a lot about and hopefully keep getting better and better at.

[0:04:59] PF: Let’s talk about what happens when you’re able to put yourself out on a page. On Live Happy Now, we talk about journaling, we talk about different types of writing, but I know that songwriting is something that’s, it’s so different than just journaling. Tell me what that process is like for you from the standpoint of how it helps heal you and helps you work through things.

[0:05:23] SC: Oh, excellent, excellent question. So, it’s been downright therapeutic for me. I have done real therapy and that’s been helpful too, but songwriting is another –

[0:05:32] PF: But it’s more fun, right?

[0:05:34] SC: Yes, it is more fun and it’s cheaper. It’s really therapeutic. I think if you’re being in the right creative zone, your logical brain starts to get out of the way to an extent, and some of the rest of your brain can get involved and get things out in a way. That whole process, it’s a way of working things through, working things out, getting them out of your subconscious and onto a page, and into a song that can carry so much emotion.

[0:06:07] PF: What I love about the craft of songwriting is that when you put it out there and when you are able to express yourself, you become amazed at how many people connect with that and say, “That’s what I feel.” And you’ve embodied somehow through this something that’s sent down and filtered through you and comes through your hands as you’ve embodied what a universal feeling is.

[0:06:31] SC: Exactly, Paula. Exactly. In my day job at Happy Brain Science, I’m trying to make people smile more than cry, but I know that I’ve written a really good song when somebody comes up to me with tears in their eyes saying, “Hmm, that song made me think about my mom and thank you, it was beautiful.” I don’t want to make people cry because I don’t want to make them sad, but if that sadness is in them, then crying is letting it out. And as you say, connecting with other people, it’s perhaps the most essential part of well-being as to not feel alone, is to feel connected to other people and music and songs can connect us in ways that it’s rare to get that kind of connection.

[0:07:12] PF: Absolutely. One thing that started this whole idea behind this conversation was your newsletter, which is terrific and you had asked –

[0:07:22] SC: Yours is too.

[0:07:25] PF: Well, thank you, thank you. And you were talking about how people are coping with challenging times, and I had written back that music was my way of coping with it. And that’s where we just started this dialogue.

[0:07:36] SC: Thank you.

[0:07:37] PF: But let’s talk about that. How are you using music to change your experience through this really challenging time?

[0:07:47] SC: Yes. Thank you. Another great question. I’m picking up a sticky note that I have on my desk that says “flow first.” It’s a reminder to me to try to get into flow to start each day. So, you of course know this, many of your listeners may, but for those who aren’t familiar with this term that psychologists use, flow is that zone where everything is clicking. The research on flow essentially started the positive psychology that you and I draw on so much, right?

But new research since the COVID-19 pandemic has shown that flow is especially helpful in tough times. And I certainly consider this a tough time for a lot of people. So, what helps us cope? Well, when you’re in flow, there is no stock market instability. There are no unpleasant headlines. There are no bad news stories because you are just in that song. You are in playing that guitar. You are in writing that article or painting that painting or facilitating a workshop, whatever it is that completely absorbs you.

The amazing thing about flow is that it’s so win-win, right? If you’re a leader or an employer out there, good news, flow is your people’s best peak productivity. It is deep work, as the title of a book puts it. It’s when you’re really in the zone, neurologically speaking, all the right gates are open and closed, so to speak, and your brain neurotransmitters are at just the right level. You’re getting good feedback, and you get that zone where time disappears, and the world disappears.

So, look, I started Happy Brain Science because I wanted to start teaching the science of happiness and I was briefly going over the science of happiness in a different session I call Changes, the Science of Managing Transitions, and a guy raised his hand and he said, “Scott, I appreciate this, but for a lot of us, it’s not a very happy time,” which is your point, Paula. And I said, “Yes, you’re Right. It’s not a happy time for a lot of us. Let me make a couple of things clear.” First of all, our goal is not constant bliss. If you say that you’re 10 out of 10 happy all the time, you’re probably not engaged with the reality fully, right?

You know, but some of your listeners may not, that research has suggested the ideal level of happiness for us is about 8 out of 10 happy, or is about as happy as the Mona Lisa appears who, according to a University of Amsterdam study –

[0:10:28] PF: It doesn’t seem like she’s in a great mood.

[0:10:30] SC: Well, according to a University of Amsterdam study, she’s about 83% happy. Go figure. I didn’t do that study. But in any case, for a visual, about as happy as Mona Lisa, a little bit of discontent is good for us. It gets us to go see the doctor or work to make the world a better place. So, first of all, we’re not striving for to bliss, but also the science of happiness, the science of well-being, positive psychology, and more. It can help us be happy-er, no matter what’s going on in our world. It can help us be happy for a little while, regardless of what’s happening in our world.

So, I go to flow first and foremost because even if it’s a miserable time, even if someone’s really sad most of the time, flow can be a very happy half hour, hour or so, and a very productive one as well.

[0:11:22] PF: We’ll be right back with more On a Positive Note.

[BREAK]

[0:11:29] PF: And now, let’s hear more from Scott Crabtree.

What I love about that, Jennifer Buchanan, she’s the author of the book, Wellbeing, Wellplayed. She’s an incredible researcher in the space of music in the brain. She recently had a column that I read and she talked about the need for basically prescribing a 30-minute listening session daily and how that resets your brain. I was glad to see that because, well, for myself, I use music daily. I have to have, let’s have music before conversation, okay? Or maybe instead of conversation, is music. And it really does help me.

I know that you use music a lot too, and I wondered, do you listen to sad songs? Do you listen to upbeat ones? What is your go-to, to create the flow and the mood?

[0:12:19] SC: I really enjoy it all. First of all, I love that reference. I’m going to have to check out her research. Music is so connected to other systems in our brains. This part of my music is so good for our brains. When I give a session on neuroplasticity, I say complexity is part of what you’re looking for, complexity and challenge to keep your brain plastic and learning. And playing a musical instrument is great for that because you’re often, you’re certainly using auditory parts of your brain. You’re probably using both fine motor skills and gross motor skills. You are using visual skills, if you’re playing with other people or reading music, you’re using social skills. I mean, just so many systems are active in the brain, right?

So, you may have seen, some people listening may have seen, there’s a wonderful documentary called Alive Inside, which shows what happens when you play music for seniors that was popular when they were 20 years old. This movie is incredible. It starts with a guy, I think his name was Charlie, and he’s hunched over in a wheelchair, and he’s hardly responsive at all. This clearly caring nurse comes up and says, “Charlie, Charlie.” And he’s like, hardly saying anything, right? They put on music that was popular that he loved when he was 20 years old. And he almost instantly perks up and his eyes widen and he starts bopping in the music, and in under five minutes, the nurse says, “Charlie,” and he’s like, “Yes?” He’s like, “Who am I?” “You’re Cherise.” “Who am I in your life?” “You’re my nurse.” He’s just completely engaged because music has this ability to light up the brain from the inside out and touch all these systems and get them going.

So, this is a long-winded way of saying music is powerful. It plays our brains, it activates a lot of systems. I curiously find both ends of the spectrum helpful for boosting mood. So, I can put on Pharrell Williams, because I want to be happy, let’s be happy, great, or I can put on Neil Young and feel like, well, at least I’m not that depressed and start feeling better, right?

Now, you and I both know comparing yourself to people is not a great way to be happy, but sad songs say so much to put it in the form of a song title, and it can help us work stuff through as you’ve said. I find music a wonderful way to get a mood out, get into a new mood, reconnect with people emotions, brains. It’s awesome.

[0:14:54] PF: Yes. I’m glad you brought that up because I did a story. It was actually Live Happy, man, at the kind of early into our magazine’s existence where it talked about how sad songs affect us because they can help you express emotion that might be trapped, that you might not be able to quite get out. I’ve heard people say, “Well, I don’t want to listen to depressing music.” And basically, the argument was there is no such thing as depressing music. This is music that can convey these deep emotions that you might not be able to give a name to or might not be able to express. It can actually make you feel happier by listening to it. It’s kind of a dichotomy. It’s like, how can that work? But it does. And I’ve been really fascinated by the science like that.

[0:15:41] SC: I love this. I’ve been reading a lot recently about displaced grief. So, there’s a theory, there’s some thinking out there that Americans are not very good at grieving because it is sad and it is vulnerable and we don’t like being sad or vulnerable. But the research suggests the problem is if we don’t feel grief, it gets displaced and it can come out as something else. In articular, some are hypothesizing, theorizing that as a country, as a world, but especially as the United States, we have some grieving to do around COVID.

I mean, not only did we lose amazing musicians like John Prine and countless other people, but we lost high school proms, and graduations, and vacations, and time with parents and grandparents. There’s a lot to grieve there and I’m not trying to bring people down to your point. If we can get some of those emotions out. It’s ultimately healthier for us than I don’t want to feel that, but I’m going to be really mad at you and everybody else around me for years running because I won’t let myself be sad. So, music can get us in touch with some of those heart emotions and help us work through them so they don’t come out as something else that’s even worse.

[0:17:02] PF: Yes, and it can help us kind of put a finger on them in terms of like, I wasn’t sure what I was feeling. I don’t think you have to name it. I don’t think you have to identify every emotion. But I think, yes, okay, that just feels right, and that released something, and now I can let that go. And I think that’s super important. I think right now is a time when we just need music more than ever. I was curious if you’re a playlist guy. I’m a playlist person, probably comes from growing up in that mix tape generation where everything with a mix tape, right?

[0:17:37] SC: I miss those days, that was really fun.

[0:17:40] PF: Spotify playlist. My dogs have a Spotify playlist because it’s like, “Josey would like that.” I’m a big playlist person. But what about you, do you do playlists or do you kind of roll with the flow and just like, I’m going to listen to an album or what’s your go-to, to set your music mood?

[0:18:00] SC: I love variety and so I grew up at a time when albums were still big and I guess they still are but people don’t listen to albums in the same way. I still really enjoy putting on an album. My favorite album of all time is Abbey Road by The Beatles. I will still play that from start to finish sometimes among others. But I do have playlists. I have playlists to learn cover songs that I’m playing in bands. I put together playlists of, so I happen to live in Sisters, Oregon, which has a wonderful folk festival every year. So, every year I put together a playlist, well, and the folk festival does too, of the artists who are coming. It’s not the Newport Folk Festival. It’s not all hugely famous names. So, sometimes I haven’t heard these people before. That’s a wonderful way to get exposed to new music.

And then technology has its advantages and disadvantages, but things like Spotify can have us play a song or three and then just feed us stuff we might like and sure enough, “Oh, this is interesting and new.” While I’m saying this, I should point out that listening to new unfamiliar music, especially that has words, is not great while you’re trying to work and get something done because it demands attention, right? If you’re trying to write a blog post and you’ve never heard the song and suddenly in your ears is, “Motoring”, it’s like, “What is that?” I am not focused on my paragraph now, right?

So, the research suggests if you’re going to listen to something and you really want to concentrate, nature sounds are great, flowing water, waves, things like that silence is great. A lot of us don’t get that option. Familiar instrumental music is good because it can stimulate your brain but doesn’t distract the language centers. I love music with words. It’s most of what I listen to. But if I’m writing a blog post or working on a presentation or a workshop, I will put on nature sounds or maybe some classical music without words.

[0:19:58] PF: Yes. I think it’s so good to identify what works for you because what’s really funny. So, my wife is big in a CrossFit and I’m into yoga, all right? So, when she does CrossFit, she listens to classical music, which you would not expect. When I do yoga, I listen to Green Day because that’s what I like.

[0:20:18] SC: That’s awesome. I love that.

[0:20:19] PF: So, we’re like, there’s something really weird about this, but it works for us.

[0:20:25] SC: That’s awesome, Paula. It’s a great reminder. I tell people in Happy Brain Science workshops frequently. Pretty much every time, I’m like, “Look, I can’t tell you what’s going to work for you because you’re unique. You’re 86 billion neurons are wired differently than mine and everyone else’s.” I ground my work in science. Science gives us averages from large groups of people. Nobody is an average from a large group of people. They’re a unique person.

So, Green Day during yoga or classical during CrossFit, or Neil Young to bring your mood up, or Pharrell Williams to bring your mood up, do what works. Experiment with your own life, right?

[0:21:02] PF: I absolutely love that. Now, I wanted to, before I let you go, I want to talk about specifically this time in history, this time in our world, this time in our lives. If there are people who are really struggling right now, and you and I both know people personally and universally who are. How can they use music as a tool to help us specifically get through some of these situations that we’re facing?

[0:21:27] SC: Well, I think we’ve already touched on a few of them. Listen to music to improve your mood, whether that music is sad, anxious, angry, happy. It can help you work through stuff or maybe get to a different mood. Music can connect people, and we unfortunately have what the Sergeant General has called an epidemic of loneliness, and that’s a massive problem, and I think it is the foundation of some of the other problems we have in society today.

But more than anything else, I encourage all of us to reach out, to not isolate. When things get hard, it’s tempting to isolate. Look, I’m not anti-technology. I spent years working at Intel. I’m a former video game developer, released a video game last year that teaches happiness. I am talking to you over a computer right now. I’m not anti-technology, but our devices, they know how to suck our attention in and away from each other. So, it’s too easy to be like, “Oh, I don’t feel good. I’ll go scroll through social media,” which the research suggests makes us unhappy. Or I’ll read the news, which makes us unhappy.

Look, I’m not trying to tell people what to do, but the temptation is to get into a technology instead of into relationships, and we need to connect with each other. And we feel better when we’re in it together. So, let’s all be in it together. Relationships, flow, exercise is a fantastic stress release. When we get stressed out, the stress response is preparing us for physical action. So, when you take some physical action, it’s one of the best ways to feel better.

So, those are three of science’s favorites for me. Another one I have to drop in because it’s a personal favorite of mine, again, backed by the research, is mindfulness and meditation. So, meditation, exercise, relationships, music, they’re all wonderful ways to cope. I have a Happy Brain Science colleague who says, “It’s a time for exceptional self-care, above average self-care.” And I encourage all of us to do that in whatever healthy ways we can find to cope.

[0:23:42] PF: Fantastic. That is a great way to wrap this up, Scott. Thank you so much for joining me today.

[0:23:46] SC: Such a pleasure. You are a rock star, Paula. Thanks for making the world a happier and more musical place.

[0:23:51] PF: And back at you. Let’s do this again.

[0:23:54] SC: Yes, please.

[OUTRO]

[0:23:59] PF: That was Scott Crabtree talking about how music can help us handle hard times. If you’d like to learn more about Scott and his Happy Brain Science community, follow him on social media or sign up for his newsletter. Just visit livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode.

I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of On a Positive Note. I look forward to joining you again next time. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.

[END]

In this episode, you’ll learn:

What the science says about music and well-being.
How Scott uses music to boost his mood.
Scott’s top three tips for improving happiness during hard times.

Learn more about Happy Brain Science.

Follow Scott on social media:

YouTube: @HappyBrainScience
LinkedIn: @sccrabtree

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