Transcript - Healing Mother Daughter Tensions During the Holidays With Leslie and Lindsey Glass

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Healing Mother Daughter Tensions During the Holidays With Leslie and Lindsey Glass

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:03] Paula: Thank you for joining us for episode 547 of Live Happy Now. With the holidays approaching, it’s time for us to think of gathering with family, and not everyone is excited about that. I’m your host, Paula Felps, and this week, I’m joined by the best-selling mother and daughter duo of Leslie and Lindsey Glass, who are here to talk about how we can make those family gatherings a little more harmonious.

In their latest release, The Mother-Daughter Relationship Makeover Workbook for Lasting Change, they walk readers through the exercises that can help heal that often tricky relationship. This week, they’re here to talk about some of those principles and practices, and tell us how to make them work for us this holiday season. Let’s have a listen.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:00:46] Paula: Lindsey and Leslie, thank you so much for coming back on Live Happy Now.

[0:00:50] Lindsey: Thank you so much. It’s our pleasure.

[0:00:52] Leslie: We’re so happy to see you again, Paula.

[0:00:55] Paula: Oh, well, since people are not going to see your faces, I want each of you to introduce yourself.

[0:01:01] Leslie: I am Leslie, the mom.

[0:01:06] Lindsey: And I am Lindsey. I am the daughter.

[0:01:08] Paula: Terrific. We’ve talked before, this is a huge topic, mother-daughter conflict. It’s such a universal thing, and it’s a great time to talk about it because the holidays, even though fabulous time of the year, but it can bring up a lot of unresolved conflict. Here in Live Happy, we’re going to be talking about a lot of different holiday topics over the next few weeks. But we really wanted to focus today on that mother-daughter relationship. My first big question for you is, why do the holidays just amplify the tensions within that relationship?

[0:01:39] Lindsey: Well, I just think that there’s so many holiday triggers that come up during this particular time period that we’re not always thinking about. Think about the control issues that mothers and daughters have naturally; food, money, gifts, time. When you go into something like a Thanksgiving, this is all amplified. Whose house? Who’s cooking? Are people going to talk about your parenting style? Are they going to ask about your life choices? Everything, I think, that makes us most vulnerable, and we’ll always throw this in from our family point of view, the sobriety issue. If one person’s sober and the other one isn’t, or somebody wants somebody to get sober. We have these expectations going into holidays. They’re going to be special. My family’s going to love me. When mothers and daughters are in a toxic place, it can get really ugly.

[0:02:37] Leslie: I want to add the question of the memories that you have, of how your mother treated you when you were a child. What was going on when all those memories that you bring to your Christmas and your Thanksgiving now, you may have a lot of bad memories. You may come into these new events with a lot of anxiety about what happened and not letting go and thinking of the past and not what’s going on in the present.

[0:03:06] Paula: That is a great point to bring up. That can be especially true in families where addiction has been an issue.

[0:03:13] Lindsey: I think this is one of the trickiest things. In order to get through these bad memories and these bad feelings, you have to do a little bit of self-help work and a little bit of self-improvement. I don’t think they go away on their own. This is why we do the work that we do, because we really want to take people through the process of how to deal with those memories. One of the things I’d say as a quick tip going into the holidays and to help people really have compassion, to really remember that you have no idea what your mom was going through at those times. She might have been under incredible stress for a multitude of different reasons that you don’t know about. Try to know that she was doing the best that she can.

There’s a difference between real toxic and just people who’ve had problems, normal family difficulties and that’s normal. I think you have to look at what somebody’s intentions are. I think if there are really bad memories that are toxic, that could need some professional help to process. If they’re just the normal dysfunctional family stuff, we have to remember that everybody’s doing the best that they can, sometimes under difficult circumstances. What would you add?

[0:04:30] Leslie: I would like to go back to the memories. I would go back to getting stuck in memories that may not have been reality.

[0:04:37] Lindsey: Oh, good point.

[0:04:38] Leslie: Your brain, your brain is a child, maybe very, very sensitive about certain things that your mom, or other people in your family have put upon you and you haven’t grown out of those thoughts. You’re stuck with feelings that you had when you were 10, or you were 12. Maybe the reality that was happening at that time, your memory may not be accurate.

[0:05:02] Lindsey: Can I add one thing to that?

[0:05:04] Paula: Please do. Yes.

[0:05:05] Lindsey: When we were writing the book, it was the first time I ever considered what it was really like for my mom to be a young mom in the 70s, with no help, with no family to support, with a difficult husband. It really made me feel completely different about my childhood, when I understood what her circumstances were. It took me until adulthood to think about it. That’s what she’s really getting at.

[0:05:31] Paula: I love that approach, because instead of us just saying, “Well, my mom was awful. You don’t understand. And it’s all her fault,” you’re really bringing it back to, it becomes how we manage it. It becomes how we perceive it. You’re talking a lot about having forgiveness and empathy and grace, and extending that to the person who gave birth to you, or who raised you, whichever the case may be, or both. So, why is that important for us to make that shift in our mindset and realize that we have culpability here? We have responsibility and we have accountability to move forward in this?

[0:06:07] Leslie: Well, for me, one of the things that I learned was that while I was trying to help Lindsey for many years, I was trying to help her, my helping seemed like control. It seemed like I was controlling her. And nobody wants to be told what to do. I think, when I began to understand that my helping was not appreciated, that was something that I had to internalize, that I had to change my behavior to make myself safe for my daughter. How do we make each other safe? I think that is the primary thing that mothers and daughters, particularly if they’re in crisis, or they’re dealing with unhealed trauma, is to begin to find ways to be safe, is to make each other safe, to stop the conflict and find ways to appreciate, have compassion, but also be safe.

[0:07:00] Lindsey: If I may, I would add this. We were talking about this the other day. When I went into my recovery process, I had people and I was bitching about my mom. She’s this and she’s the other and she’s – I had a sponsor who said to me, “You could be talking about yourself right now.”

[0:07:20] Paula: Wow.

[0:07:22] Lindsey: I was in a couple of situations throughout my life in recovery where I really had people look at me and say, “Hey, you had a part in this. If you don’t understand what your part in this is, there’s no path forward.” When you can acknowledge, and when I was able to go back to my mom as a recovering person and say, “Hey, I was difficult. I understand you were frightened and I was difficult and we were just like this.” That’s why I think understanding your own part is so important.

[0:07:53] Paula: I love that. How do we start in advance, recognizing these are potential triggers for this holiday season?

[0:08:02] Lindsey: Oh, we made a list.

[0:08:03] Paula: Because I feel you don’t do that well enough.

[0:08:04] Lindsey: We made a list.

[0:08:06] Paula: Oh. I love lists.

[0:08:06] Lindsey: All right. I’ll tell you what’s on our list. This is good. Okay. First of all, you have to prepare. What preparing means is knowing what your triggers are and how to avoid them. If you know that questions about certain areas are going to be very triggering, or certain topics, beforehand, you have to say, “Hey, we’re not going to be talking about this at the dinner table this Thanksgiving.” In the old days, we didn’t talk about politics and religion at the dinner table. It was not polite. We have a rule in our family, because of what we’ve been through, we call it light and polite.

[0:08:46] Paula: I love that.

[0:08:46] Lindsey: You set your boundaries before if needed, how much time you’re going to spend, how long you’ll stay, what the conversation boundaries are. You have to resist the urge to fall back into old roles. What else? What’s really, really important?

[0:09:04] Leslie: Well, you have to keep your expectations realistic. Say, if you know your mom is going to say, “How’s it going with that boyfriend? Has he proposed yet?” Wait a minute. Are you still with that guy that is such a jerk? I mean, does he have a job yet? That’s a trigger, obviously. You know that your mom is going to bring up subjects. Oh, my God, you’ve gained weight. You’ve lost weight. You have to keep your expectations realistic. There are going to be moments where it’s going to be tricky, and it may be very much up to you to be able to control your own emotions. Don’t drink, or use to cope. Don’t drink. Don’t drink, so that you could –

[0:09:44] Lindsey: Well, let’s don’t over drink. I mean, a cocktail if you need to, but don’t be using these things to cope and get through and change, alter your mood.

[0:09:54] Leslie: Also, don’t jump up on the table and leave in a huff. Plan your exit. Plan your exit. If your expectation is that everybody’s going to be so lovey-dovey and so nice, and so safe, and actually, all those old things come up again, then know that you’re going to have a reason to go. Don’t leave in a huff and make everybody else uncomfortable. Say, this is a boundary that says, “Okay, we’ve got into a place where I’m not comfortable.” But you don’t have to announce that to the table. You can say, “Oh, I really have a headache. I got to go. My boyfriend who you hate is waiting for me.”

[0:10:37] Paula: When you are creating your list, is it a good idea to discuss this with some of the people that will be there, or is it a surprise for them? Especially the whole, I love not talking religion or politics. I know that is a huge problem for a lot of families right now, and you inevitably have that one relative that’s like, “Oh, what do you think about, insert your topic here?” Do you say something in advance to whomever is hosting, or how can you?

[0:11:05] Leslie: I would actually set out some things that say, “Here are some suggestions to make a great holiday season.”

[0:11:11] Lindsey: Yup.

[0:11:11] Leslie: Here are my suggestions. Don’t bring up old grievances.

[0:11:16] Lindsey: Well, I think, yeah, yeah.

[0:11:18] Leslie: Here’s what we’re not going to talk about.

[0:11:19] Lindsey: Yeah. Like, this season, we’re going to keep it light and polite. Preferred topics are dogs, pecan pie, what movies everybody’s watching. We talk about this with the mother-daughter and having difficult conversations. You absolutely want to prepare somebody. You never want to embarrass somebody, or make them feel stupid. Suddenly, they’re at the table and they’re bringing something up and you’re like, “Oh, no, no, no.”

I think it’s better if you’ve set some expectations for everybody and somebody brings it up, then you can jokingly say, “Oh, not on our list. Somebody didn’t get the invitation. Somebody didn’t get the family newsletter.”

[0:11:59] Leslie: What about the memo? Did you get the memo?

[0:12:01] Lindsey: Yeah. Then it’s not putting them so on the spot, but it’s holding that boundary and saying, “We’re going to keep it calm today.”

[0:12:08] Paula: Why are we reluctant to draw those boundaries ahead of times? I hear people talk about what they dread and what they don’t want to have happen, but they’re telling me, which is not going to help, because it’s their family that they should be discussing this. Yet, people seem reluctant to do that. Why is that?

[0:12:26] Lindsey: Well, I think people never want to start a fight. First of all, often, if it’s somebody you’re scared to say something to. It’s somebody that doesn’t react well when you say things. I think it’s very, very hard to set boundaries. I also think that comes from a lack of practice. I think the minute you start, you’d be shocked how well people respond to them, especially if you do it with love and compassion. What do you think?

[0:12:52] Leslie: Well, I know Lindsey still likes to correct me.

[0:12:56] Lindsey: It’s the worst.

[0:12:57] Leslie: She does.

[0:12:58] Lindsey: I’m so bad. So sorry.

[0:13:01] Leslie: In an interview, she’ll punch me, and I think people can see it. The question is, nobody likes to be told what to do. The thing is, there are so many people who think they’re fabulous. They think they’re fabulous. They don’t think they’re toxic. They don’t want to be told what they can and can’t say. Would you say that? Would you agree with that?

[0:13:21] Lindsey: Yeah. Yeah. I think people are just scared of the reaction.

[0:13:24] Leslie: Yeah. You tell me what I can say.

[0:13:27] Lindsey: Again, we have something in recovery called sober reference. What it means is, so like, before you go to your first sober Thanksgiving, you’re terrified. How is this going to go? How are people going to treat me? What’s going to happen when I’m handed a drink? Then you get through it and you’re like, “Wait a minute. That was okay. That was fine. I had a really good time and I didn’t get in a fistfight with anybody. Maybe I’ll do that again.” The next year, it’s fine.

I remember the first time I had to be really honest with my mom about some things I was scared to tell her and I told her. She was like, “I’m so glad you told me the truth.” That set the stage in our recovery for me knowing she was a safe place to come and share how I was really feeling. Part of this is, I would say this, the onus is on the person who’s bringing up the boundary. Do a little research, ChatGPT it. Look it up. What’s the nicest way to –

[0:14:24] Leslie: That I can say.

[0:14:25] Lindsey: – that I can say this to somebody? Don’t point fingers. Don’t be like, “You get drunk at every Thanksgiving, so we don’t –” It’s like, hey, we’re only doing wine and beer this year. If you can limit it to a couple of drinks, we’d really appreciate it. We’re really setting an example for the grandchildren. This is not about you. This is about the behavior we want to model this Thanksgiving, and love you lots. There’s a bottle of patron in your stocking, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Take it home. Right?

[0:14:57] Leslie: Well, I think it’s always starting with, I love you lots. We’re on the same team. We’re in the same family. We’re in the same family. If I ask you, you asked it, but you said, people don’t want to hear about setting boundaries. But if you say, “I love you lots,” and always start with, I love you.

[0:15:16] Lindsey: Here’s why we’re doing this.

[0:15:17] Leslie: Here’s why we’re doing this, or here’s why I’m asking you this. Because it hurts my feelings, or this hurts my feelings. If you put it on what you’re feeling, it’s a way to deflect.

[0:15:29] Lindsey: It’s a healthier way to communicate.

[0:15:32] Paula: What I love is you didn’t say, “I love you, but.” I love that. Tell us why that’s important. Because that jumped out of –

[0:15:39] Leslie: I used to do that all the time. I used to say, “You’re so fabulous, Lindsey. But –” She’d always be waiting for that but. They don’t hear the first part of it.

[0:15:49] Lindsey: The but makes it a backhanded compliment.

[0:15:51] Leslie: Yeah. Right.

[0:15:52] Lindsey: Is what I think. The but is the trigger, because it’s like, well, this is good, but now I’m going to take it away.

[0:15:59] Leslie: Yeah. Right.

[0:16:01] Paula: I love that point. The way that you said it just like, exploded off the mic.

[0:16:05] Lindsey: I’m glad that you heard that, because one of the things we’re trying to do here is not blame, or shame people. If somebody’s struggling with drinking, or they have an anger management problem, we’re not trying to shame them. We’re just trying to say, “We love you the way you are, but if you could keep it together for the holidays, that would be better.”

[0:16:23] Leslie: Just keep it together.

[0:16:24] Paula: That would be appreciated.

[0:16:24] Leslie: Keep it together.

[0:16:27] Paula: We’ll be right back with more of Live Happy Now.

[BREAK]

[0:16:35] Paula: Now, let’s hear more from Leslie and Lindsey Glass.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]

[0:16:39] Paula: Now, some years can be uneventful for a family, and then some years are tumultuous. If someone is having a year, someone in their family is in crisis this year, what is a great way to approach it? Do you scale back? How do you manage this to make it the best-case situation for everybody?

[0:16:59] Lindsey: You want to start? Do you want me to start?

[0:17:00] Leslie: Well, it depends on what the crisis is.

[0:17:02] Lindsey: Yeah. I think that matters.

[0:17:03] Leslie: I mean, I think if it’s somebody who’s having a financial crisis, what you want to do is keep everything simple and say that the gifts this year are $15 or less, and have a less lavish display of food.

[0:17:15] Lindsey: Or homemade.

[0:17:16] Leslie: Or homemade. Everybody bring a homemade thing. If it’s financial crisis, then you want to keep it simple and limit the amount of money you’re spending.

[0:17:26] Lindsey: That’s some of her grief and loss.

[0:17:28] Leslie: Yeah, grief and loss.

[0:17:30] Lindsey: When it is grief and loss, there are a few things you want to, first of all, decide what feels secure. Maybe it’s just one or two people over. Not the full table. Really accept that this is going to be really hard and be okay with that. If you need to watch movies for a couple hours, watch movies. If you need to go outside with the dogs and play with the dogs. Just say, the rules are different this year. It doesn’t have to look exactly like it did before. We always suggest, when you’re talking about crisis that has to do with the loss of a family member, a family member being in crisis with addiction, or mental health.

[0:18:11] Leslie: Or a breakup.

[0:18:12] Lindsey: Yeah. Or, even as simple as a breakup, whatever the strongest support system for that person is. Whatever is going to create the least stress for that person. If you are somebody who is incredibly triggered, because you’re alone this year, and that is the case for a lot of people in this country. They actually struggle the most in the holidays, because they’re alone, or they’re not with the people they want to be. In those cases, you have to create comfort wherever you can. If you have a support group available to you, that’s really important. Don’t expect yourself to be festive. If you can find one person that you feel safe with to do one activity that’ll bring you pleasure, that’s a success.

[0:18:56] Leslie: I’ve always loved the Hallmark movies, the Christmas movies, because there’s always loss in that. There’s always loss in those movies. They always allow you to access your tears and your happiness, because it shows that wherever you are, however you are, it’s going to be okay. I think that’s one thing that people need to feel no matter what the crisis is, that it’s going to be okay.

[0:19:18] Paula: I love that. If you are having a difficult year, how do you decide if it’s okay for you to just skip the festivities entirely? Because it’s looked down. I’ve done that certain times in my life, where it’s like, yeah. You know what? It’s better if I just stayed here.

[0:19:34] Lindsey: You know what? When we were in family alienation, I did several holidays completely alone, and I skipped it completely.

[0:19:42] Paula: Did you hate it?

[0:19:43] Lindsey: I was sad. I’m not going to lie. I was very sad. But I love food. I love movies. I love my dogs. I would create days around those things. Even when I was in California completely by myself, I would go to – they have these fabulous grocery stores in California, where you could get a pre-made meal that was as good as – I’m sure they have them everywhere, but you’d go to these Bristol Farms places and they’d plate you a Thanksgiving dinner, and it was as good as anything. I would do that and I would have my private little thing.

I also had a support system. I was in recovery groups. I had people who were calling and checking on me. I did connect where I could. Yeah. I think it’s an inside thing. If you do not feel equipped to celebrate a holiday, you do not have to. You’re the only one who can make that decision. We shouldn’t be making these decisions for other people. If somebody in the family says, “I can’t do it this year,” I think you have to respect that. This is not the moment to push them. You can say, “If you want to come for half an hour, I’m happy to bring you and take you home.”

[0:20:56] Leslie: I’m going to give an example. We have a neighbor and the neighbor has a daughter and she has extreme anxiety. She has extreme anxiety. She’s living at home and she has never come to any of our celebrations, any of our parties. This year, Lindsey is here and I think she’s 37, not married. She has a good job, but she lives at home, right? This year, Lindsey is with us on Thanksgiving and she has asked if she could come. It is a sea change for this family, to be able to come and have the daughter be able to come with her to the party. It is a real celebration for us.

[0:21:34] Lindsey: You know what? That brings up a really good point. Sometimes you can do a very small thing for people that will make them feel more comfortable. I think we live in a beautiful community here in Florida, but it is families. It’s families. It’s married people. If you’re the single lady on the block, I think it can feel incredibly daunting. I think by having another, I mean, not technically single, but single lady, unmarried lady, people.

[0:22:05] Lindsey: Sadie, Sadie.

[0:22:07] Lindsey: I think that’s probably very comforting.

[0:22:10] Paula: Yeah. We used to do a lot of stray Thanksgivings.

[0:22:12] Lindsey: Oh, we do that. I do that in recovery, too. Anybody from the AA group who didn’t have somewhere to go could come over. Yeah.

[0:22:20] Paula: How important it is that once you make that decision like, this is what’s best for me. It’s to do my own thing for the holidays. It’s to do my own thing with this group of people, or whoever I choose to. Once you’ve committed to that, to not go back and beat yourself up, because I know that can be a problem. People are like, they’re second-guessing and saying, “Oh, I should have done this,” right? They then keep this guilt upon themselves for not doing the right thing.

[0:22:44] Leslie: I think you just stick to your pleasure principle. This is what I love to eat. This is the movie I love to watch, and really stay in your pleasure. Think about the pleasure. I’m having so much fun, because these are the things that I like to do. Certainly, when I was alone for many – or seven years, I was alone, and if I decided not to share with my neighbors, or anything like that, I would say, these are the things that I love to do when I’m alone.

[0:23:09] Lindsey: I also, I want to give people a way to reframe it, if you’re feeling guilty, because you didn’t do something, or I could have, should have, would have. Reframed that, I’m growing. I’m doing what I want to do. Yeah, I feel guilty, because that’s what I’ve been conditioned to feel all these years. Actually, feeling guilty means that I’m standing up for myself. I’m doing what I want. Guess what? Growth is uncomfortable.

[0:23:36] Leslie: It is.

[0:23:37] Lindsey: Give yourself a little bit of applause, instead of doing that stinking thinking. I call it the rabbit hole of despair, which I live in a lot of times. I really have to think, okay, I’m incredibly uncomfortable, but it’s because I did what was right for me. That feels bad to me sometimes.

[0:23:55] Paula: I really love that, because it lets you focus on what you like, versus the negative, what I should be doing, what I didn’t do, all those things. That’s absolutely fantastic. You write that focusing on yourself is often the best solution for that family, or mother-daughter drama. What are other tips that they can use to learn to focus on themselves, not feel selfish about it, but just really give themselves the care that they need through this holiday season?

[0:24:26] Lindsey: Leslie talks a lot about having to rediscover what she loved, when we separated. How did you find the things that you loved again?

[0:24:38] Leslie: I think when you feel very alone and you’re isolated and you have been going through a bad period, you should look at yourself, who did I used to be? Who am I? Who did I used to be? How can I be that again? What I used to be was very crafty. I loved plants. I loved to cook. I loved to make food for my neighbors and stuff like that. In despair, you’d become paralyzed. You can’t find those things. But if you’re taking care of yourself, you’re asking the question, what do I love? What did I used to be and would like to be again? That’s how I rediscovered myself.

[0:25:16] Lindsey: The reason you focus on yourself is, because when you’ve been in this fighting habit and you’re enmeshed, you’re obsessed with somebody else and what they’re doing, what they’re doing. You almost have to – Our break was very harsh, but she went and rebuilt her life and found the things that she loved. I spent four years focused on self-help and self-improvement. When we reconciled, I knew a lot more about myself. I was able to say, “Wow, I was really part of the problem.” She had built a life, so she wasn’t like, “Where’s my daughter? What’s she doing? Why isn’t she five seconds from me?” There was a lot of enmeshment there.

I came back. She had a big life. I had some accountability and it allowed a path forward. Instead of us reconvening, her having spent four years being enraged with me. Me replaying the same story of all the things she did wrong, instead of figuring out what I had done wrong.

[0:26:17] Leslie: I just want to say that 37% of them adult Americans are estranged from one, or both of their parents.

[0:26:23] Paula: Really?

[0:26:24] Leslie: Not speaking to one, or both of their parents. This is also true in Great Britain and other places. Imagine the amount of pain that both people are feeling, because they are not able to communicate and give each other the love and the acceptance that they both need. When we talk about taking care of ourselves, one of the things about taking care of yourself is beginning to understand what might have gone wrong in your relationship. In our case, it was communication styles, blaming and shaming, control issues, and obviously, addiction and recovery.

I think that the reason the mother-daughter relationship is so important and why learning this self-discovery is so important is that there’s a whole missing in your life. All your other relationships are going to be affected by that unhealed rift that you have. Sometimes you do have to break up from your mother, or your daughter. Sometimes you have to, in order to survive. That’s okay, too. But if you do have to break up, then you have to find who you are without that other person.

[0:27:42] Paula: You bring up such an important point, because I do know people who distance themselves, estrange themselves, walk away from their toxic parent, but yet, they still have that parent’s behaviors. They’re replicating those behaviors in their own relationships, yet at the same time, complaining about, “You wouldn’t believe what my mom was like.” How do you change your behavior, so that you’re not doing the same thing that alienated you from your parent?

[0:28:09] Lindsey: Okay. This is literally the workbook. I’m not trying to pitch the workbook, just because we’re on, but I want to just take you through a few things, because the first thing you have to do is really identify the behavior in yourself. If you can’t say and look, “Oh, my gosh. My mom was passive aggressive in her marriage and I am passive aggressive in my marriage and with my children,” then it’s not going to work. The first thing is identifying whether or not you have the same personality traits, communication skills. That’s why we do self-discovery.

Then the next thing you really want to do is look at this relationship and look at the actual things you’re fighting about, the triggers and the traumas and really understand that some of the things you grew up with, some of the things you saw are absolutely dictating how you are behaving. That’s step one. Step two is whether you’re able to do it on your own, with a coach, with a therapist in a recovery group, whatever it is, doing the work around it that is going to create different patterns. We can sit here till it’s middle of the night, telling you all of these things, but unless you go out and practice it, it’s not going to make a difference. Also in the workbook, we actually have replacement scripts.

[0:29:45] Paula: Oh, that’s fantastic.

[0:29:46] Lindsey: If you used to talk to somebody like this, here are different ways, different words to use to get through what you’re trying to say, without it being aggressive. I actually think there’s a lot of self-improvement that has to go on, and it comes from absolutely understanding that you’re doing it yourself, wanting to stop, and then having tools to actually create new styles of behavior and practicing them until they become intuitive.

[0:30:17] Leslie: Right.

[0:30:18] Lindsey: Even today, even today. I’m a woman in my 40s, dating. I still stumble into things that are very familiar to old relationships, old patterns. But the difference is I know it really quickly. A few weeks in, I’m going, “Oh, actually, I like this person for all the wrong reasons.” Or the first time there is an incident, you go, “Oh, this isn’t going to change.” That’s the difference.

[0:30:45] Leslie: I think we do have some charts in the book, so that you can say, “I am like this. Here are the 10 ways I’m like this. My mom is like this.” And be able to look and say, “Oh, I am like that.” It’s important to be able to understand why your mother behaves the way she does.

[0:31:05] Paula: If you adjust your behavior, you deal with your own behavior, you haven’t changed your mother, you haven’t changed the parent. How, though, will your relationship still change, even without her going through that process, or will it?

[0:31:17] Leslie: Somebody asked us that yesterday when that happens.

[0:31:19] Lindsey: It really depends on her emotional intelligence. If she is not a toxic person, hopefully, she will be able to change with you. If she is a toxic person, or has a personality disorder, there’s going to be resistance. They’re not going to like it.

[0:31:38] Leslie: If they can’t change and they don’t want to make themselves safe for you, a safe space for you, then you have to make a decision of how much contact you want to have. What can your relationship be like, if you know your mom is not going to be able to listen to you, doesn’t really understand your feelings, doesn’t want to understand your feelings?

[0:31:58] Lindsey: It goes the same for your daughter, too. Daughters can be toxic. We’ve never shied away from that.

[0:32:05] Leslie: I think that when you understand yourself and your feelings and your hurt feelings and basically, the way you’re reacting to other people, once you understand that, you can start making adjustments of how close you want to be with someone who hurts you.

[0:32:20] Lindsey: Yeah. But it’s a complete toss up how the other person is going to respond to all of this.

[0:32:27] Paula: Even if they don’t respond, it is worth it to do the work. Am I correct?

[0:32:30] Leslie: You have to do the work.

[0:32:31] Lindsey: You have to do the work, because you don’t want to be reliving the stuff in your relationships. You don’t want to be living anxious and hyper-vigilant. I’ll speak for myself. The worst part of all of this is if you start using drugs and alcohol to cope with what you’re going through. We want to be healthy and, no, we absolutely say, all of this work should be done, even if the other person won’t do it, because you’re healing your own self and soul.

[0:33:00] Leslie: Yes, exactly.

[0:33:02] Paula: I love it. Lindsey, Leslie, I love having you on the show. You two have a beautiful story. In our newsletter, we’re going to take our listeners back. Well, I guess if it’s a newsletter, they’re readers. But we are going to take them back to your previous podcast, where they can learn a little bit more about your story. It’s so inspiring to see that these relationships can be healed. I find you so inspirational and such a joy. I love that you’re out there leading other mothers and daughters through this process. We’re going to tell them how to find you, find what you’re doing, find your workbook, find your other book, which was a bestseller. As I let you go, what is your main piece of advice you get to tell us for this holiday season as we march out into it?

[0:33:42] Leslie: I’m just going to give two words and then Lindsey can speak. Hope and compassion.

[0:33:46] Lindsey: Oh, those were my words.

[0:33:48] Leslie: I stole them. Having hope for the future. Whatever you’re having, whatever relationship you’re having right now, doesn’t have to be the end of your story, and having compassion.

[0:33:59] Lindsey: All right. I’ll go back to the golden rule, because I think the golden rule, it holds true when you’re seven-years-old and it holds true when you’re 70-years-old. Do one to others as you want done onto you. Try and be the light you want to see. I know it’s hard, but trust me, when we’re the bigger person, we never regret it.

[0:34:24] Paula: That is so well said. Thank you so much. Look forward to talking to you again and I hope the two of you have a wonderful holiday season.

[0:34:30] Leslie: Thank you. You too.

[0:34:30] Lindsey: Thank you.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[0:34:34] Paula: That was Leslie and Lindsey Glass, talking with me about family wellness for the holidays. If you’d like to learn more about Leslie and Lindsey, follow them on social media, check out their books, or get a free download from their new mother-daughter relationship make-over workbook, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode.

That is all we have time for today. We’ll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.

[END]

In this episode, you’ll learn:

How to set loving boundaries before holiday gatherings to reduce conflict and anxiety.
Why childhood memories can distort present-day interactions — and how to reframe them.
Tips for navigating grief, crisis, or estrangement during the holiday season.

Visit their Reach Out Recovery website.

Get a free download from the Mother Daughter Relationship Makeover Workbook.

Follow Lindsey and Leslie on Social Media:

Facebook: @ReachoutRecovery
Instagram: @reachoutrecovery
YouTube: @reachoutrecovery6052

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