Transcript - Finding Purpose at Work With Greg Kettner

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Finding Purpose at Work With Greg Kettner

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:03] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 546 of Live Happy Now. Most of us spend about one-third of our lives working, which means making sure you love what you do is pretty important. This week’s guest is here to tell us how to make that happen.

I’m your host, Paula Felps, and this week, I’m joined by Greg Kettner, a speaker and workplace expert, who is here to talk about why so many people are unhappy at work and how finding a job that provides purpose, not just a paycheck, can change the way you work. Let’s have a listen.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:00:35] PF: Greg, thank you for coming back on Live Happy Now.

[0:00:38] GK: You are welcome, Paula. Thanks so much for having us. Good to hear your voice.

[0:00:42] PF: Oh, it’s always good to sit down and talk to you. You always have great things to talk about. The reason I wanted to have you on the show today is there’s so much out there about unhappiness at work, and it just seems to be more and more widespread. It’s a big topic, which is why we have such great sitcoms, things like The Office that show just how miserable people are at work. This is really your area of expertise. Based on what you’ve seen, what do you consider the main driver of unhappiness in the workplace?

[0:01:12] GK: You know what? The deeper I get on this, Paula, and I think you’ll agree with me, it’s just lack of communication, right? We’re tasked to do more with less. We have AI coming at us. We’re threatened by that. Times are tough for however you view the world. People are just like, okay, somebody else can pick up the slack. I think it’s just lack, it boils down to miscommunication, or no communicating at all, right? That leads into lack of trust. You and everybody listening has left jobs, not because of the job, but because of the manager.

I think a lot of it is just non-communication that leads to people feeling like they don’t belong, that they don’t matter. A recent study suggests that people would rather have that sense of meaning, that purpose, that feeling that they are valued and their voice matters than a $10,000 raise –

[0:02:03] PF: Man.

[0:02:04] GK: Which is completely the opposite of what we thought, right? You go to college and you’re like, “All right, I got to get this job. I got to move up the ladder. I got to make money, get a mortgage, blah, blah, blah.” But people are now realizing that we spend more than a third of our time at work and we’re humans and we can only take so much.

[0:02:20] PF: I’ve had friends who would try to, I won’t say, force, try to direct their children into a certain career position. I had some friends in Texas, who, the father was an engineer, the older son went into engineering and they tried to get their younger son, they got him into engineering school. Nobody that knew Lance thought this was a good idea. Smart guy, but he basically flunked out on purpose, so that he could turn around and go to art school and now he’s a filmmaker. It’s like, they were, I remember that time, because they were so disappointed that he wouldn’t follow engineering. They’re like, “He’s never going to make the good money. He’s never going to have a good career.” They didn’t really understand the need for following his passion.

I know, that is something you are such a big believer in. Before we dive into that, tell us a little bit about your career, because you really walk your talk in terms of finding something you’re passionate about, finding your purpose and making a living out of it.

[0:03:19] GK: Yeah, for sure. I grew up in middle-class, Canada. Middle-class family. Dad was a doctor. My mom stayed at home and raised us, until we were out of the house. Like you were saying, growing up is like, okay, you finish high school, you go to college. With my dad being a doctor, my mom being a nurse, that was – it wasn’t forced on us, but we’re just like, “Okay. Well, I’m going to go.” Then, I didn’t like the side of blood, so I’m like, I’m not going to do medical school.

[0:03:46] PF: It does come with it, does it?

[0:03:48] GK: Right? My brother’s a psychologist. He teaches at University of Victoria. My sister is a principal, early education. I’m a speaker. But it’s interesting in that we’re all serving our communities, and that’s our passion, right? We all make a different amount of money between my brother and my sister and I, but that’s never the conversation that’s when we get together for Christmas, or holidays, it’s not like, oh, look at your house, look at my house. It’s like, what are you doing and how are you making the world a better place?

To me, the older I get, it’s more about passion. Starting out, I was in sales. I wanted to work for Nike. I got disillusioned with the child labor and just the way things were done. I’m like, this isn’t right. I went to the NHL, sold hockey tickets and sponsorships, worked in major league soccer and then did some startups. I was usually happy. I mean, I had some great managers. I had some bad managers. But when I got married, oh, I forgot, Paula, you know this. I did stand-up comedy for eight years.

[0:04:50] PF: While you were doing these other things.

[0:04:52] GK: Yeah, yeah. I was doing it part-time, but I really loved it. That was my passion. I got up one night on a dare. I don’t know if Mike and people laughed. That made me feel so good. I’m like, oh, my word, I just walked into front of a bunch of strangers, and now we’re laughing and having a good time. I did that for eight years. It took me eight years to figure out like, money, more than the stand up. I think everything leads to something else. When I was on tour, I ran into an old college friend. We reconnected and we’ve been married for almost 10 years. Things happened for a reason. During COVID, I lost my job. I was told I was no longer essential. I told my boss, “Well, I think you’re no longer essential.”

[0:05:35] PF: That went over really well.

[0:05:37] GK: Yeah. He’s like, “Well, I found the paycheck.” I’m like, “Oh, you went.” I didn’t know what to do. I felt lost. Here, married for a couple of years. All of a sudden, we’re down to one income, going into COVID. I didn’t know what I was going to do. I lost my identity a bit. Then my wife and I were talking one night and she said, “Well, what do you really want to do? You’re always happy. You love doing stand-up comedy. Would you want to go back and do stand-up?” I said, “Appealing, but it’s not good for a marriage, or the bank account.” She said, “Well, why don’t you go and help other people work happy?” I was like, “Yeah, that’s it.”

Then I just cobbled together, and now Work Happy is shared the message with over 10,000 people. We’re well on our way to 100,000 and then to a million. The older I’ve gotten, and the more mature through marriage and therapy, the purpose is what keeps me going every day. I still remember, I was flying to Vegas of all places. I picked up Simon Sinek’s book, Find Your Why. I read through that and I was like, “Okay, this is it.” Not every day is a work happy day. I mean, a contract might go sideways, or somebody else might get the speaking gig versus me, or something might happen in personal life, or family, or friends. But what I’ve learned through all this and what I love sharing with people is how to restart my day. Because I’m believing that happiness is not the goal. It’s happier, which is a small change, but – I can be happy today, but what happens –

My dad passed away a year and a half ago. That wasn’t a happy day. But I chose the next day to be happier. We sat around and we talked about all the memories of dad. Same thing with happiness. If my goal is to get happy and all of a sudden, I hit my happiness goal. Where I go from there? You can only go down. Happiness to me, or happier is more fluctuating your ups and your downs, but having that ability to look on the positives, like you.

[0:07:40] PF: Let me ask you, because times are uncertain. They’re always uncertain, but they’re more uncertain now than they have been. People might say, “Well, yeah. But this is not the time to be making a move, because I’m passionate about it, or because I have a sense of purpose.” We could say the same thing about you during COVID. Things were very tumultuous then and you took this step. You’re not in your 20s. We’ll just make that clear. It’s not like, well, I’m super young and I can afford to make mistakes. Where does someone find that confidence of saying, “Yes, I can make a career out of doing something that I love”?

[0:08:18] GK: Yeah, I think it’s different. If somebody’s listening to this and going, “You know what? I’m not really happy where I’m at. Maybe I can find something else.” I got thrown into it, because I lost my job going into COVID. I was like, what are we going to do? As a speaker and trainer, it’s typically you’re live in an audience, 300, 400 people. I started this whole thing on Zoom. So, it’s really refreshing. I was just giving a keynote this morning to a group of businesses. My point was just, if there’s one thing you can do this next week, just incorporate laughter into your culture, right? Obviously, HR approved and whatnot.

I had so many people come up to me afterwards and just going, “You know what? We do need to laugh more. I didn’t feel like I could until you got up there and shared some funny stories, right?” I think if people are, I don’t know if the right word is stuck in your job, but if you’re thinking of doing something, try doing it on the side. Do some research. When I started Work Happy, I reached out to two – they’re now mentors. One gentleman, build their team with a sales trainer that came and worked with us when I was working in hockey 20, 25 years ago. Reached out to him and I reached out to another Canadian speaker, humorous Michael Kerr. Both of those guys gave me an hour and I still keep in contact with them. I share my wins and losses with them as well, too. They’ve been mentors. I don’t want anybody to quit their job and say, “Well, I’m going to go do this, because Greg was successful.”

It takes a lot of hard work. It takes a lot of learning, a lot of late nights, a lot of tears. If you’re not happy where you’re at, try and figure out what does make you happy? What drives your purpose, whether that’s a job. If you do have a family and you needed support, and the job is doing that, continue with your job, but try and find other things on the side, whether it’s a group of friends that goes, I don’t know, camping once a month, or something else. Because you can still be happy in your life and that will tend to bleed into your workplace.

[0:10:26] PF: We’ll be right back with more of Live Happy Now.

[BREAK]

[0:10:34] PF: Now, let’s hear more from Greg Kettner.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]

[0:10:38] PF: If you’re they’re feeling purpose at work and they don’t feel like they can make that big job change, big career change, then is it a matter of finding purpose with something aligned with work, or finding another sense of purpose that has nothing to do with work, or what’s a great way to do it? Because just having a sense of purpose that fulfills you on one level will spill over into every area of your life.

[0:11:04] GK: Yeah. No, I don’t know. It’s a tough one. I think it’s different for different people. Yeah, if you can align yourself. Sometimes before I got into all this, I would never go to a counselor, because I’m a man, and I’m good. I got it, right? I remember my brother’s a psychologist, now he teaches psychology at a university. We were having a call one night and he goes, “What’s it going to harm to go talk to a guy? Just talk about what you want to do with your life.” Coming out of college, I was at Nike, and I was really just franchising. I talked to him. I’m like, well, okay.

I went to this guy, and he gave me a couple of tests, the Myers-Briggs and stuff, and we had a conversation. He said, “What do you want to do?” I said, “I just want to go to work where I help people be happier.” I mean, this was when I was 22. He said, “Well, what do you like to do in life?” I said, well, I love hockey and he didn’t know that I had no talent, or skill at hockey. He said, “Well, why don’t you go sell hockey? We have a hockey team in this town.” He goes, “Okay, you enjoy hockey and now you’re selling it. That worked.”

Dumb luck in trying different things, but it was going to a therapist, a career therapist. It was very beneficial. Then, I think, when I met Becky and fell in love and then got married and had a stepdaughter, that really, to me, it was more purposeful, because whatever I did, I wasn’t so focused on the work. It was on, this is what I’m doing to support my family, to pay the mortgage and do all this. I just gravitated to what I do. If I do it again, or if people are thinking about becoming a speaker, do it on the side. Don’t go full stop and then try and jump on the bandwagon. You can do it both ways, but it’s always nice to have that paycheck still coming in, while you’re building your craft and building your connections.

[0:12:59] PF: Yeah. Because I’ve been freelance writing for a lot of years. We won’t even mention how many years. I remember when I was leaving my job, I was with a national music magazine and I was the editor. My mentor, it was very disappointing that I was leaving the industry, because he’s like, “I always imagined you’d be in this office in New York, working for this magazine.” I’m like, “I could think of nothing worse than sitting in an office all day for the rest of my life.” That’s what I had done is built things up on the side and found out like, yes, I really like this so much more than I like working on one thing every day, day after day. You’re right, that’s a great way to discover what is it that I really – what punches my buttons, what really lights me up and what is it that I want to do going forward.

As you’re interacting with people and as you’re dealing with companies, what do you see as the major, I guess, obstacle for people doing the things that they really want to do, pursuing their passion?

[0:14:03] GK: I think it’s just not making it a priority. I remember the corporate world and I might do this way too long as well. But when we’re spending more than eight hours a day at work and instead, I was also spending more than eight hours a day doom scrolling, we just don’t take that time. You have to work on it. I’m starting to write a book called Stop Chasing Happiness. It’s taking that effort, you’re going, “Okay, I’m in a job. I’m getting paid, but I’m not necessarily happy. Maybe I’m a five out of 10. I want to be an eight or nine out of 10. How do I get there?” You have to work on it. Do some research. There’s a ton of classes you can take online, whether it’s about happiness, or burnout or whatnot. Listen to motivational speakers.

I’m right now a huge fan of Simon Sinek. Always have been, probably, always will be. When we want to get something, it’s just like in a job, I want to get a promotion. Well, what are you going to do for that promotion? Are you just going to hope that it’s going to happen? Are you going to do the extra work? You can go the extra mile, or you’re going to take the extra class to get it. I think if you are happy where you’re at and you want to make a move, start planning today. The best time to grow a tree for shade is today, not 20 years from now.

[0:15:16] PF: There you go. One thing that’s pretty new but it has really gained traction, it’s also gotten a lot of flak, and that’s the idea of a purpose-driven career. Gen Z is really huge on that. They want to do things that matter. I know other generations have perhaps beaten them up about that, because they think it’s silly and hey, it’s work. It’s not fun. It’s not supposed to be purposeful. What’s your take on that? Why should we be paying attention to this newfound need to have a purpose-driven career?

[0:15:49] GK: Well, I think if you are following your purpose, you’re just naturally happier, right? Science has broken it down. Happiness is in our DNA and purpose. 50% of us are born positive. 50% of us are born with negative outlook on life. 20% of the rest of the pie is the people you hang out with, the things that you do. Then the last 30% is your choice to be happy, right? I can wake up and going, “Oh, it’s raining. This sucks.” I can wake up and going, “You know what? I don’t have to write, at least today.” I’m lucky you have that, right? It’s that thing.

Having purpose and meaning in your life not only makes you happier and healthier mentally, but when you have purpose and you find people who want to be a part of the team and feel like they’re needed, they’re more productive. They’re more creative. They work longer hours. It’s just amazing when we can align our purpose. Once management understands the benefits of happiness and purposeful employees. It’s amazing.

There’s a study out that the newer generation coming up would rather get a pat on the back, feel like their voice is heard, their boss know their name, or that their dog is sick than a $10,000 raise. You are right. We’re leaning more on towards purpose and how we can give back, versus, well, I got to make X amount of dollars, so I can live the life that I want and the house that I can show off, but I’m not happy. I’d rather have purpose and be happy.

[0:17:26] PF: Yeah. It’s like, this, with Generation Z, they’re not content to just trade hours for dollars. They really want to get something out of it. As you look down the road, how can that change the workplace as we know it? If people start taking purpose and passion and making that a priority within the workplace.

[0:17:45] GK: Revenue is going to go up eventually, because when we put people first and give them the tools that they need to be successful and put them in the right job, right? I mean, you may be in accounting and you hate numbers. Maybe you’re better off for sales, right? Because you enjoy people. Finding people’s purpose, not only is the person that you employ going to have a better life in and out of work, but the company is going to have better revenue. The world is going to be at a better place, because I think every company, every sane company wants people to be happy, wants them to be purposeful, and wants to give a meaning. But we are so focused on revenue and shareholders that we forget that we are humans.

Now AI is coming into the play and people are like, “Oh, I’m going to lose my job.” Maybe, but maybe not. I mean, the printing press and we’re still printing paper, right? It is going to change. But there’s something about AI, it can’t give you a hug. It can’t relate to you. It can’t be empathetic. Back to the question earlier, it all comes down to connection. I think if we get more away from our screens and having one-on-one conversations and helping each other find their purpose, we’re going to be farther ahead, both financially and ethically and as humans.

[0:19:09] PF: I love it. That’s a great way to wrap this up, Greg. I appreciate you, as always, sitting down with me, sharing your insights.

[0:19:15] GK: Awesome.

[0:19:16] PF: We’re going to, of course, tell the listeners how they can find you, get more of you, and I just thank you for bringing purpose to everything that you do and coming and talking about it.

[0:19:28] GK: Well, you’re welcome, Paula. I’m so glad that we connected. Looking forward to connecting, hopefully, soon in real life. The work that you do with Live Happy, it’s such a great dovetail for the Work Happy, because if we’re not happy at work, chances are we’re not going to be happy at home, vice versa. Thank you for all you do and I appreciate you.

[0:19:47] PF: Thank you so much.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[0:19:53] PF: That was Greg Kettner, talking with me about the importance of finding a job that provides you with purpose. If you’d like to learn more about Greg, or follow him on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode. That is all we have time for today. We’ll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.

[END]

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Why lack of communication — not workload — is often the biggest source of workplace unhappiness.
How living with purpose makes it easier to navigate setbacks and stay motivated, even in uncertain times.
Simple, daily practices to cultivate more happiness and meaning — without needing to quit your job.

Visit Greg’s website.

Listen to the WorkHappy podcast.

Follow Greg on Social Media:

Facebook: @gregkettner
Instagram: @gregkettner
YouTube: @gregkettner
LinkedIn: @gregkettner

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