Transcript - Fall Into Fun With Live Happy

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Fall Into Fun with Live Happy

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:03] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 536 of Live Happy Now. Labor Day is behind us, so that means we’re putting a lid on summer and getting ready to roll into fall. But that doesn’t mean you can’t take your light-hearted summer vibe with you. I’m your host, Paula Felps, and we recently wrapped up our second summer of fun campaign featuring the guidance of organizational psychologist, Mike Rucker, author of The Fun Habit. This year’s campaign got a tremendous response, and we wanted to make sure that you carry your summer of fun spirit into the fall. So, listen to my conversation with Mike about how you can take what you learned and make this a fun-filled fall. Let’s have a listen.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:00:44] PF: Mike, welcome back to Live Happy Now.

[0:00:47] MR: Thanks for having me back. It’s always a pleasure.

[0:00:49] PF: Hey, so we are wrapping up a summer of fun, but that doesn’t mean we have to quit having fun, I guess.

[0:00:55] MR: Absolutely.

[0:00:58] PF: I have really enjoyed this whole campaign that we did. I think one thing that happens with summer, we can get caught in one of two traps, and this is like, “This is my fun time.” Or we’re still so busy that we feel cheated out of summer fun. We have it in our heads from the time we were kids because that’s, “Hey, we’re out of school.” That’s when we’re supposed to have fun. And then we become adults, and it’s like, “Well, wait a minute. I’m not having much fun. I’m working every day. I’m doing all these things.” And that’s what I loved about the Summer of Fun series is it was a reminder of you can build fun into your life in simple, small ways. And it is incrementally adding up and contributing to building joy into your life.

[0:01:41] MR: Yeah. One of the other things that I found fascinating just recently – well, not recently. I think recently, I had this awakening, but it was because there’s been a plethora over the last four to six weeks, and maybe some of it came in through this program. But just how time-poor working moms are, right? And so that particular persona in general are doing so much to organize the fun of their kids going into the summer. That when it comes time to think about themselves, that amount of energy is already expended on others, even though they still wanted to enjoy their time too, because there is that opportunity yet. Instead of planning somewhat for themselves, they’ve given it all away for others to make sure the kind of proverbial leaders eat last.

But oftentimes, when you don’t have anything left or you’re like, “Okay, everyone, I just want to rest now.” I mean, what a shame, because you still have those opportunities, especially if the folks that you generally care for, away camps or whatnot. And so having that foresight, something as simple as the fun file that we talked about early in the series, so that you have premeditated, like, “Wait a second, there are a few things I want to do. Or there are a few friends I want to catch up with.” Instead of what happens all too often. And we always say it’s not going to, right? But comedians abound talk about this, three months will pass, and be like, “Oh, well, that didn’t happen. Maybe next summer.” I mean, it’s just a shame when all it would have taken is just a few minutes to get that momentum going. And I think that’s what we really tried to do here. Just those primes can be all it takes.

[0:03:20] PF: Yeah. And you bring up such a good point because – especially working moms. And it’s funny because we have an episode coming up next week about our invisible jobs, and it really deals with how we’re working full-time, but then we also have these invisible jobs at home. And we’re exhausted by the end of the week. And so even when you do have that opportunity for fun, you might turn it down just because you feel so depleted. And I think what your email series really does is when you commit to it, then – especially mothers are good at not breaking commitments. And it’s easier to break a commitment with yourself. But if you have made that commitment with a friend, we’re going to do this, then you’re going to go out. And it’s amazing how much it does fill you up when you go out. And as tired as you are or as much as you’re saying, “I’ve got all these other things to do,” it really does fill you up to go out and do those things and discover your little – your fun habit.

[0:04:11] MR: Yeah. And we made it clear when we first connected that the idea isn’t to overprescribe your schedule. This isn’t meant to add on. It’s just so many folks do find themselves depleted. They choose poor forms of leisure because they essentially just want to displace that discomfort, right? Like, “Ah, this just wasn’t that great. And so let me do something that doesn’t really fill me up, but at least just pacifies the time.”

And what we know is even though it takes a little bit of effort, similar to kind of beginning exercise, when you do find a few things that are enjoyable within the balance of the cadence of your life, you actually have more energy later. And that generally happens quickly. I find folks that, especially if they’re picking up an old hobby that they were good at, that first week sometimes can actually not be that fun because they’re like, “Oh my gosh, I used to be so good at the guitar. I don’t –” but if you get past that first week, right? I mean, I can’t even think of an exception that makes the rule where folks were happy.

And this isn’t just conjecture, right? Anecdotal from the folks I’ve worked with, researchers in this area, I often cite Cassie Holmes, have looked at folks that do this. And then the hedonic flexibility principle supports this as well. Almost always, you go back and check in. You’re glad you did it. You feel invigorated. There still will be an end. The classic example that 40-year-olds like to leave the party at 10. That’s fine, you know? I mean, we should all get our sleep, too. But so many of us aren’t doing it because we’re afraid, right? Like, “Oh, I don’t want to stay out till two in the morning.”

And when you flex your agency and autonomy and actually enjoy your life, but in the confines of the way that you want it organized, then you start to feel good about your days. And that has this ripple effect. So, it’s not just for you. If you’re like, “Okay, well, that’s fine, but I feel this sense of guilt because I still want to serve others or serve my family,” whether you’re a volunteer or in a domestic partnership. The best way to show up is if you’re actually enjoying what you’re doing. And there’s this concept called social contagion, where it’s not just about you. It’s about being happy when you’re in the presence of others, too, because that’s contagious.

[0:06:24] PF: Yeah. And I think some of the actions that you gave us to do really helped us. You talked about volunteer. Do these things to get out. And make those social connections. And that’s really, really important. And as you said, the ripple effect that we have when we start implementing these actions into our lives, and then make them a habit. It really does change things for us and for everyone around us.

[0:06:46] MR: Yeah. And we can set a low bar for volunteering, right? It’s always these things, like, “Is he going to tell me to stop watching television?” Or you have to go pick up trash on the highway. Volunteering can just be going to – paying the price of a gala where the whole thing is set up to be entertainment, but you feel like you’re also contributing.

And so when you have that connection to something outside of yourself, the hedonic sort of pleasure of it is also rooted in knowing you’re doing something good, then you get double benefit instead of something where it’s like you’re just doing it for the sake of doing it. And oftentimes, that can be helpful. But some folks, it really does create what we call a moral injury because you’re like, “Oh, well, that was sort of a waste.” Right? And again, I could argue that it’s not. But if that does kind of create moral damage, then go do something that’s really enjoyable that also makes you feel good about the purpose of the particular event. I just like to put that there because people hear volunteering, right? And they think that it’s going to be work. And it doesn’t have to be. You can lower the bar there.

[0:07:47] PF: That’s right. That’s a great point to make. As I was receiving these emails, as I was looking at them, I wondered if you had one particular fun habit that is your favorite, like your go-to. What is that?

[0:08:00] MR: For me, I’ve been really playing with this idea of healthy hedonism. And so I was really turned off by – again, I’m not on social media that much, but my kids are kids, so they are. And so I got introduced to this idea of Hard 75. Are you familiar with this? It was a trend on social media where people were doing these very hardcore regimens to better themselves. It was like all the things that you hear from folks like Huberman, right? But like stacked in a crazy way. I wake up, I drink water, then I make sure I meditate for 30 minutes. Just things that essentially are almost impossible if you work at all. And I was like, “Okay, this is bananas.”

I’m working on this concept, sort of the anti-thesis to that, where can you add enjoyable aspects to the things that you want to get done? And so that’s really been my fun habit for the summer is, again, in line with activity bundling, which I talk about in the book. How can I make elements of things that I probably should be doing a lot more enjoyable so that I do do them? And so that’s really been my “fun habit.” And it’s been really paying off.

Because the thing is, when you get into that mode, again, the geeky term is veilance, but when we enjoy something, we’re also drawn to it within reason. And so it’s kind of putting the accelerant on that upward spiral that I talk about. And so, I’ve been really having a lot of fun working out with people that I enjoy, planning hiking dates with one of my friends here to make sure that I get out in nature. But quite frankly, I almost forget it because I really enjoy the conversation with this particular gentleman. And so, those types of things. Really, just taking my own advice, but then doing it through the lens of betterment as well.

[0:09:46] PF: I like that. We’ll be right back with more of Live Happy Now.

[BREAK]

[0:12:12] PF: And now, let’s hear more from Mike Rucker.
And what if it’s things that you don’t enjoy that have to be done, like things around the house, things in your yard? I mean, summertime’s prime time for us to do all these home improvements, get these projects done. And again, that eats into our leisure time, our fun time. How do you do tasks like that and make them more enjoyable?

[0:12:36] MR: Yeah. Anyone that’s heard me talk is probably sick of this because I talk about it ad nauseam. But anyone familiar with James Clear’s work knows this well, too. There’s this concept of temptation bundling. And so all I do is throw on 90s hip-hop because I can’t listen to it with my kids. That would be a whole sidebar where I’m baffled about what gets through the parental filters of now that everything is a story or a –

[0:13:00] PF: Yeah.

[0:13:02] MR: But yeah, I’m not going to listen to NWA with a nine and a 13-year-old in the house. I actually look forward to going out and doing stuff, which I didn’t before because it’s my time to be able to get to enjoy that music. And since I pair that with really fond memories, folks back at home, not only am I enjoying the music, but oftentimes brings back these really fun memories I had with friends in my hometown.

[0:13:27] PF: That’s an excellent way to do it. I love that.

[0:13:30] MR: And it’s funny because you say it out loud and people are like, “Really? Fun is just adding enjoyable elements to my environment?” Yeah, that’s exactly what it is.

[0:13:38] PF: It’s not a task. It’s not something we have to go out and perform. It’s just something we add in.

[0:13:45] MR: And you could push it off. And we also know that there’s limits, right? I think we talked about it last time. But in case we didn’t, there is a threshold where this becomes dangerous, right? Let’s say you’re writing a book, right? The deep work that you need to do should be without error. Or you want it to be a really good end product. That, you don’t want to couple with a comedy show running in the background, right? That’s not a good idea. Yeah, it might be more enjoyable, but the thing you’re actually trying to accomplish is going to suffer, right?

Mowing the lawn while listening to 90s hip-hop, or what we call dad rock now. I’m a big Sound Garden fan, too. That’s not going to harm mowing the lawn, right? I mean, you need to be careful. It’s within reason. But we know there’s a great study for, again, geeks like me that want to know the science. Katy Milkman did some work where folks who really like podcasts, she asked them to not listen to them until they went into the gym. And what she found is not only did the folks go into the gym more, but, of course, they also enjoyed what they did. Because when you really are immersed in something that’s enjoyable, you can often forget the thing that you’re actually supposed to do. It’s a really useful tool, again, as long as you do it within reason.

[0:15:00] PF: I love that. I was doing the email series as it came through. And really, I got so much out of it. One thing was that I realized things that I already had in place in my life I wasn’t necessarily even putting in the fun column. I wasn’t even attributing it to that. I think that’s one thing it did for me was gave me that intentionality and that visibility of like, “Oh, this is something I’m doing that is really good for me.” And one thing, because we live out on the lake, and it’s a really busy time during the summer. And everything is outdoors during that summer. And then you had some great ideas of exploring local culture. And there were several things that you gave. Now I’ve already started this fall fun file of things, like, “This would be great to do when the weather changes, when we’re not outside all the time.”

[0:15:47] MR: I think that’s great method for extending the value if you did go through the course, right? And even if you didn’t. I mean, a fun file is a pretty pedestrian entryway into this work. And again, even though it sounds easy, so many of us don’t do it, right? But if you just spend a few minutes thinking about what are some of the things that I’d like to enjoy. And I found that, for me, it didn’t work. So, I maybe left it out. But I’m finding that I’m the exception, not the rule. Have that list right on your desk or by your bedstand because then it serves as a moniker, like, “Oh, yeah, I haven’t looked at this for a week, and I haven’t scheduled anything.”

Again, the list should be short. We talk about it in the course. No more than 15 things and things that you can do. And if you haven’t crossed one off yet after two weeks, it’s going to nag at you. Like, “Wait a second, two weeks have gone by and I haven’t done one thing fun. That’s a problem. Let’s figure out how to sort that out.” And so, it really is reclaiming that agency and autonomy we all have, but oftentimes we just forget about it because we get into our routines and we let time pass us by.

One of the crux that we didn’t talk about just because it was really a summary course is the underlying principle here really is attention, right? In the book, I cite work by Matthew Killingsworth. And we know people that kind of get stuck in this mode of mind wandering all the time even if they are doing things that, to your point, might have been enjoyable if they had kind of been mindfully doing them, they’re not really enjoying life. They’re just kind of on autopilot.

And so some of this is bringing attention to like, “Wait a second, I can do the things that I want. Maybe not all the time, but I certainly can integrate some of that into my life.” And so many of us just don’t do that, especially the ones kind of stuck in the sandwich generation, as it were.

[0:17:36] PF: Another thing that this did for me – you talk about social connections and maybe like doing a game night, things like that. We have a couple in Nashville that we get together with about once a month, and it’s very loose, like, “Hey, what are you guys doing?” And so we had gotten together and we did one of those murder mystery games.

[0:17:51] MR: Nice.

[0:17:51] PF: And we had such a great time. And then I had just seen your email on talking about that, plan a game night. What we’ve done is we went through and we committed to every month getting that. We’re switching off who gets the game, and doing that once a month. Now it’s not just like, “Hey, what are you guys doing? When should we get together?” It’s on the calendar. We know we’re going to see them, and then it becomes a priority. And it’s also that anticipatory savor, and you’re looking forward to seeing them. You’re looking forward to this month’s game and things like that. It reframed how we were approaching our time together with them.

[0:18:26] MR: That’s so cool. And I think one of the benefits of that, too, is if you talk to an introvert and you say, “Let’s go to dinner theater.” They’re like, “Ah.” Right? Because it’s a bunch of people they don’t know. But I haven’t hosted one personally yet, but I have been fortunate enough to go to a few over the last year. And when it’s eight people that that introvert knows, oh my gosh. Right? They don’t have the opportunity to flex that because they don’t want to be around people they don’t know. But if it’s people they trust, they’re some of the most theatrical – they turn into characters around like, “Wait, what’s happening right now?”

[0:19:05] PF: “Who are you?”

[0:19:05] MR: I like when it’s in an intimate setting because it really is more inclusive than pinging six of your friends and saying, “Hey, let’s go do this in a public sort of setting,” which might not be as fun for everyone.

[0:19:19] PF: Yeah, that’s a great thing to keep in mind. And we have talked about this isn’t just a summer thing. This, you can use anytime. And what I love is you’ve given us this toolkit of sorts to explore fun, to bring fun into our lives. What should someone do if they feel themselves slipping into fall and winter? The days get shorter and darker, and they feel themselves losing that sense of fun. What kind of things can they do as kind of a quick restart?

[0:19:48] MR: Yeah, I think you just want to start from the beginning, right? If you have a list that you’ve already done, figure out how you can get it on your schedule. The two main tools that are kind of at the starting line are behavioral concepts, premeditation and pre-commitment, right? If your list is kind of dwindled, or you look at it and, “You know what? This wasn’t right. Maybe I should kind of restructure it,” start there, get the list, and then just make sure something gets on the calendar.

And there’s always someone that’s like, “Well, what happens if I can’t do either one of those two?” Reach out to a fun friend. That is sort of rip cord, and they will always pull you out. If you at least have the strength to go, “I want to add a little bit more fun. You’re always doing something fun. Is there anything that I could tag along with?” Again, I’ve never heard someone say, “No, I don’t want you to have fun.”

[0:20:40] PF: No. This is my fun. Go find your own.

[0:20:41] MR: Yeah, those types of people generally are the more the marrier type folks. God, yeah. Thank you. “I should have invited you,” is generally what you’ll hear. And so it’s the one, two, three, right? If you haven’t done the fun file, think about what it is you want to do. Maybe let it percolate a little bit. Because oftentimes, at first blush, go back and go, “Ah.” But if you can’t come up with a list at all, that’s kind of a separate issue.

And then just make sure you schedule a couple of things. It’s that simple. In all of my research, especially preparing for the book, the main difference between folks that are living a joyful life versus those that don’t, and this is after 20, right? This isn’t in collegic. But anyone who’s kind of left college that doesn’t have as much autonomy over their time are the ones that deliberately schedule it, as unfun as that sounds. But it’s such a small step, right? Because once you get it on the calendar, it happens.

[0:21:39] PF: And how important is it for us to start thinking about that? Now, I’m thinking I’ve got a couple of friends who really suffer from seasonal affective disorder. Once we hit like end of October, there’s a real skid into not wanting to do anything, not feeling like life is fun. It’s a really challenging time for them. How important is it for us to plan ahead on that, knowing if we have that issue, knowing that that’s going to be a problem?

[0:22:06] MR: Yeah, I want to be really careful. Again, as you know, my background is organizational psychology, and that is a real disorder. I mean, I have a light right in front of me, so I know what clinically can be helpful. So, I don’t want to suggest that pre-commitment is going to necessarily mitigate that because it is a clinical condition, right?

With the preface of that, I do think it’s helpful that if you have things to do, it generally indexes fun memories that can be used as resilience. I certainly benefited from that when I was in a malaise for a different reason, for losing my brother, right? And so you can be in a place where you don’t necessarily identify as happy or joyful because of a biological predisposition or a big life change like a divorce or the loss of a loved one. And you can still organize your life in a way where you’re finding activities that bring you joy that create those positive valence states. And what we know is that those indexes of memories, one, again, create this kind of tapestry that will help most people with resilience. But two, it reminds you, you have agency and autonomy to bring joy into your life even during times where you find it more difficult.

[0:23:27] PF: That’s fantastic. I know we have to let you go, but I just had one last question, and that is, what do you hope that everyone gets out of this, out of doing this Summer of Fun series?

[0:23:36] MR: Yeah, I hope they kind of slingshot themselves into fall. The ability to create a lot more joy in their life. I think so many of us just need that break in our routine and that reminder that like, “Wait a second, I do have more control.” And so I colorfully call it a bias towards fun. Just remember, life is kind of like going down a river, and there’s no way that we can completely control where the river is going to take us. Sometimes it’s going to pull us to the shitty side, but we have a lot more aptitude to be able to kind of steer it so that we have this pool to the better side by making choices and, again, applying that attention to things that we do. End of the day, it’s really just mindfulness repackaged, but in a way that where we’re using hedonic tone, the ability to bring joy into our life in a way that makes things more enjoyable, and then also hopefully leads to betterment and this upward spiral. Because we realize, like, “Wait a second, this is abundant and I can always call it in even on the days where I get punched in the face.”

[0:24:42] PF: Exactly. Well, it’s like that Owl City song says, “You can’t stop the waves, so learn how to surf.”

[0:24:48] MR: Yeah. I love it.

[OUTRO]

[0:24:53] PF: That was Mike Rucker talking about how to make your summer of fun last all the way into the fall. If you’d like to learn more or check out Mike’s book, The Fun Habit, be sure to visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode.

That is all we have time for today. We’ll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. And until then, this is Paula Felps reminding you to make every day a happy one.

[END]

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Why it’s so important to commit to fun during the fall and winter.
Tips for incorporating more fun into life’s busy seasons.
How scheduling fun adds joy to more areas of our life.

Visit Mike Rucker’s website..

Check out Mike’s book, The Fun Habit: How the Pursuit of Joy and Wonder Can Change Your Life

Follow along with the transcript.

Follow Mike on Social Media:

X: @performbetter
LinkedIn: @michaelrucker
Facebook: @mike.rucker.phd

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