Transcript - Discover The Power of Real Optimism With Dr. Deepika Chopra

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Discover The Power of Real Optimism With Dr. Deepika Chopra

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:04] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 561 of Live Happy Now. As we continue happiness month, it’s a great time to explore what optimism means in today’s world. I’m your host, Paula Felps, and today, I’m talking with Dr. Deepika Chopra, a psychologist and author whose new book, The Power of Real Optimism, digs into the science of optimism and the role it plays in resilience. Today, she’s here to explain what optimism really is and how we can use it to navigate difficult times. Let’s have a listen.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:00:37] PF: Dr. Deepika, thank you so much for joining me on Live Happy Now.

[0:00:41] DC: I’m so excited and happy to be here.

[0:00:45] PF: This is a book for our times. This is exactly what we need right now. I got very excited when I got this email about it, and really interesting to me, because just last week, we ran an episode about a new Gallup poll that shows how pessimistic America is about the future. Of course, we want to follow that up with optimism, and I wanted to find out from you. Obviously, you’ve been studying this, practicing this for a while. What made you realize this was the right time for this particular book?

[0:01:14] DC: Well, to be honest, this is something I’ve been working on for a number of years, and I had been focused on this niche practice of optimism and hope theory for well over a decade. For me, it’s just what I do. To be honest, I think that as humans, this topic of optimism and what I like to call real optimism is actually something that every human and every season of their lives, I think, could really benefit from these tools because, like I always share, as humans, none of us are immune to struggle, and that is part of the human existence. We often can’t control our circumstances, but we really do need are tools to help us navigate through the reality of life.

I think when people think of the term optimism, a lot of times, it can be really misunderstood. I’m really passionate about helping people redefine, and what I like to call it real optimism, what that truly is from a science-based perspective.

[0:02:21] PF: I want to make sure that we’re all on the same page, because you have a definition of optimism that might differ from what people think. Can you tell us what that definition is, and then tell us how optimism is different than positivity? Because I think sometimes we use those interchangeably and you break it down really well that that’s not the case.

[0:02:42] DC: A lot of people think optimism is a personality trait, or a mood. I’m here to say, it’s actually a skill, and I believe it’s like a muscle. It is something that we can learn, and that is a very important distinction to be made. I also like to preface all of this with, yes, I am known as the optimism doctor, and this is what I specialize in, and I’m really good at helping people increase their science-based real optimism. But I am not naturally the most optimistic person, and I am in no way, shape, or form the poster person of optimism.

What I am is someone that, just like everybody else, is in the trenches using the tools in my own real life and sharing that journey as well and trying to increase my own optimism. A lot of people assume that optimism is glass half full, rose-colored glasses, always seeing the silver lining, experiencing 24/7 bliss and joy. Real optimism, a person that is really leaning towards being optimistic, is actually someone who is very keenly and mindfully aware of the roadblocks and the setbacks and the less-than-ideal situations that, again, none of us are immune to.

The caveat is they really see these setbacks as something that is temporary, and that they have the ability to overcome and persevere through, even if they don’t know how, or when, but they know that they can and will, and that is truly based on historical personal resiliency. You have experienced every single one and gotten through every single one of your hardest days thus far. That’s important stuff. That’s where we build and cultivate the optimism from. Then the second thing is someone that is optimistic, or how we talk about optimism is really being rooted in our authentic feeling. A lot of times, that feeling might be grief, or worry, or sadness, or fear, or rage, or whatever these feelings are that we might be feeling that don’t feel good even sometimes, but they are part of the normal human range of emotion that we were built to feel.

We’re authentic in that, but at the very same time, there’s a crack open for hope, or curiosity even. That’s where we start of, I wonder how this is going to change me, or I wonder how this will change, even if I’m not sure how or when, but just that curiosity and knowing that whatever it is that you are in is temporary.

[0:05:32] PF: That optimism and that approach to it won’t always feel good. I think we think, if we’re being optimistic and we see a positive outcome, or we can envision something better, our mind thinks, well, it should feel good, and can you address that? Because during this time, we might be able to be optimistic about the future, but not feel good about what’s going on.

[0:06:00] DC: Exactly. A really big part of optimism is what I like to call this and. It’s this notion of just and. You cannot feel good. You can feel all of the emotions we just talked about, which don’t feel good and sit in them and be authentic and feel validated for being in them, and at the very same time, know that something is going to change and hope and allow yourself to hope that that change will be for the better. It doesn’t often feel good.

I like to really share that optimism, despite what people think, really is cultivated through those moments of perseverance. The only way we persevere is actually going through something that feels like a struggle. We’re not necessarily building, or cultivating our optimism when we are feeling the most joyful. Although, those joyful moments and feelings are so important and intrinsic to optimism, and we almost have to work really hard intentionally to allow ourselves to stay in those moments, because as humans, our brains actually tend to focus on the things that need fixing, or that are broken, or that don’t feel great. We also have to train ourselves to sit in those positive moments longer.

Yes, you are so right. That is a misconception. Optimism doesn’t always feel great. In fact, again, it is born from somewhere that you are not feeling great about and that you are excited, or curious about how that might change.

[0:07:37] PF: That brings us to today, where we are living in a very precarious time. There’s a lot of division. There’s so much uncertainty. Can you talk a little bit about how the brain processes uncertainty, and then what we can do to keep it from just shutting down?

[0:07:57] DC: Yeah, our uncertainty and just general collective feeling of heaviness is as many listening, I’m sure can relate to at an all-time high. There are so many reasons for this. You are not alone. In fact, you are part of the greater collective in your feeling of this, of course. Like I had mentioned before, I think a lot of people are surprised to hear someone like myself say, I don’t really tell people to turn off the news, or to just stop looking and paying attention and deeply caring. Of course, I believe in boundering it. We can’t take all of the stimulation in at once. A lot of that is what’s going on right now. Our attention is absolutely being robbed every moment in a way that has never been the case before in decades and decades past.

What I will say is in order for you to make a change, or someone to make a change, you have to know what’s going on. I think it’s deeply important for people to be aware. It’s important for us to feel we can still engage and show up and not just numb out. There is this whole notion of feeling the way to the world. I think that’s a really important thing to address. Of course, we are going to feel these things, but the number one most important thing to know about how our brains work, our brains prioritize safety and regulation over growth.

The very first place to start, you can have all the tools, you can read all the books, you can listen to all the podcasts with all the tips, but unless you feel safe and regulated, your brain will not be able to put forth the energy to make any changes. The first place to start is really coming up with the collection of unique tools that help you stay safe and regulated and signal to your brain that I am safe and I’m regulated. The good news is these things can be really small, very practical, very doable.

[0:10:06] PF: What if someone isn’t in a safe spot? What if they are part of America right now that is in danger and isn’t feeling safe no matter where they go? How can they create that space for their brain and importantly, for their children?

[0:10:23] DC: What we’re talking about here is creating small moments of mental and parasympathetic nervous system safety within your own mind and body. That can look like short breathing exercises. For me, the one that works the best is the 4-7-8 breathing. There’s a lot of science and research behind that. It really works to lower cortisol and to create a reset in our nervous system. That’s taking in a breath for 4, and then holding it for 7, and then exhaling for 8. There are many small sensory ways you can train your brain in those moments to step out of a negative loop and just feel a sense of safety. I’m talking about micro moments. Those micro moments are really important, because it signals to the brain then, “Hey, I’m okay. I can tend to some other things right now, like solution-focused, or problem solving. Maybe I can come up with an idea that is more tangible to actually make myself and my family safe. But I can only get there, and ideas only formulate in the executive functioning of the brain once I actually feel safe.”

That’s why these moments are so important. I oftentimes play a game of adult I spy with my clients. That is an excellent way for in the moment to stop a negative loop, or worry cycle to feel a sense of safety. It works by just being a really healthy distraction for the brain, because our brains have a limited capacity for attention. You go around a room, you sit in a comfortable place and you out loud set a timer for 30 seconds. Out loud, just start naming everything you see. Yeah, your brain is using enough attentional capacity, where it is not able to go in the worry spiral and takes you out of it. Just by looking at something and labeling it and the trick there is to try really hard not to tell an emotional story about what you’re seeing, and you will, but then you just move right on.

[0:12:31] PF: We’ll be right back with more of Live Happy Now.

[BREAK]

[0:12:40] PF: Now, let’s hear more from Dr. Deepika Chopra.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]

[0:12:44] PF: You say that optimism is a trainable psychological skill. Is it things like that that will help us start cultivating optimism? How do we do that?

[0:12:54] DC: That’s the very start is just by giving ourselves a sense of safety and creating more capacity. The way optimism is trained is a few different things. One of the things we talked about was explanatory style. It’s really rooting ourselves in understanding that things are temporary. That’s the hallmark of when we talk about real optimism. Another thing is this idea of collecting evidence. Our brains are like detectives, and we love to collect evidence. Usually, our brains love to collect evidence to make whatever we’re thinking more true. Sometimes that can be not so great.

We’re thinking something and it might be irrational. Our brain is doing a really great job picking out evidence throughout our lives and our days to make that thought more true. Another way for that is taking a look at our thoughts and starting to collect evidence in a thought that maybe you want to have more of, or that is more aligning with a behavior, or a feeling that you want to have. One of the best ways to increase optimism is through sensory-based visual imagery. That is the practice of visualization.

[0:14:12] PF: Can you talk about that a little bit more? How does somebody start doing that at home? Because it’s something. We usually have someone walk us through it. But how can they do that when they’re in their own space?

[0:14:22] DC: I love this, and there is an entire chapter on this on my new book, The Power of Real Optimism. There’s a really practical guided way to do this on your own. Of course, if you can find someone that specializes in science-based sensory, visual imagery, which is something that I do, it’s really powerful, but the book walks you through in a longer way in the chapter on how you can do that.

I will say that the reason that this is so powerful is because of our brain. We have these things called mirror neurons. These are very exciting. It basically, like our brain doesn’t really know the difference between fantasy and real when we’re imagining something. The reason that this works so well for increasing optimism is because if you hold a very negative, self-limiting belief, it is very difficult cognitively to just say, “Well, I don’t want to think this anymore, and so I’m not going to think it anymore,” which we get into that generic blanket statement affirmations, which can be helpful. But a lot of times, research shows, actually, can be pretty detrimental, especially to people that really need it. Because again, our brains really like to make true what they already think is true, and so we have to use statements that we actually believe.

I have a guide in the book as well called the seven-10 rule, where I am so for people using affirmations, but only if they believe that affirmation authentically to be true, seven out of 10. They measure it, and they actually believe that affirmation seven out of 10. Then sure, use it. Otherwise, we need to start creating some more specific authentic affirmations that you truly believe in that same realm, but not like, we’re not here to do this 360 of, “I do not feel safe.” Then looking in the mirror and just saying, “I am safe.”

We might start in a different way, like where are the places in my life that I feel? Who do I feel most safe with? We start to get really specific. We might start focusing on those type of thoughts that that really makes sense. Then our brain starts to collect and pick out and seek out more evidence that are like that to stick onto that thought, and that becomes more powerful. Now we’re headed in the right direction, but we move small and we move slow. Then as we go on, we can move a little faster. That’s really important for how the brain works.

With visual imagery, the exciting part is that – so your brain doesn’t put forth energy, or the executive functioning for coming up with solutions, unless it feels safe, but also, unless it feels this thing that you want, or that you’re thinking of is actually possible.

[0:17:22] PF: We have to really believe it. We really do before we start trying to visualize it.

[0:17:27] DC: We do. We have to believe it before we start putting forth energy and taking action, but the way visualization is so powerful, it is a potent, beautiful way. When you imagine something and you can use all of your senses to be in that imagination, it sends a signal to the brain that like, “Oh, I’ve already done this, and so it is true.” I am someone that would be this way.

There was a study on voters and they took a cohort of people and the vote was the next morning and they said, are you going to vote? Are you not going to vote? Then they put one group of people that were not going to vote through a visual imagery, imagining themselves voting.

[0:18:19] PF: Oh, interesting.

[0:18:20] DC: The people that imagined and saw themselves voting actually went out and voted, because now their brain told them, “I’m a voter and I have to make more true what I believe I am.” It’s a really powerful tool in optimism, because I think it’s a great way to start to chip away at negative self-limiting beliefs that we have, that we can’t – some of us are so stuck, that we can’t just cognitively say like, “Hey, I want to work on this.” Because it seems impossible. But when you visualize it, and if you allow yourself to really go there, and for some people, this is very simple. For other people, depending how concrete and cement this self-limiting belief is, it’s difficult. We have to go slow in that, too.

Once they can see it, it’s like your brain can’t unsee it. It becomes something, even if it’s far off in your mind, it becomes a possibility, or something that you’re more likely to expect that will happen for you, or to you. You are more likely then to start putting forth the attention and the problem solving capabilities and taking action to actually make yourself be in a situation to make that thing come to fruition.

[0:19:35] PF: That’s terrific. On the flip side of that, there’s a practice you have that I really, really liked and that is scheduling intentional worry time. I thought, as I was reading this, it’s like, this is so perfect, because people are, “We’re worried right now. There’s a lot going on.” To tell someone, just don’t worry about it, isn’t working. I love the fact that you say, schedule this time, talk to us about that and how you do that, and then why it’s so effective in letting go of worry.

[0:20:05] DC: Yeah. It’s something that I talk about a lot that it’s so funny when I’m sitting across from someone, like a client or whoever, they are like, you can see their face be like, “Wait. What? You want me to worry?” It’s really counterintuitive. Actually, when you think about it, it makes a lot of sense and it’s based on science. Again, just to reiterate, none of us are immune to worry. We, as part of our human existence, we will worry about things, because we care about things. It’s the opposite of saying and sending someone off with the promise that, do this work and you are going to leave this with a worry-free life. No one can promise you that, because that is literally not how we were built cognitively, or emotionally. We are built to worry. Of course, we need to boundary that worry, and that is where this comes in.

I was just speaking with someone yesterday. She was like, “I started implementing that. For the first time ever, I am sleeping through the night.” It’s because when we just have floating worry all day long, which nowadays we are in fight, flight, freeze mode, pretty much throughout our entire day. Way, way back when, when our ancestors were living long, long time ago, we might have been in this mode of threat, like one time a week when we were on our hunt, or our partner was out hunting and we had to take care of the brood while they were gone, whatever that was. It was acute and it was severe, but there was much time in between that we weren’t really in that.

The modern day, we are literally in fight, flight, or freeze, almost the entirety of our waking and I would say, sleeping hours of our day. That is not how we were built to sustain and thrive. It’s very important. I literally have people and myself to schedule worry time into your actual calendar. I literally put it into my phone calendar. I have worry time. This is a practice, like anything else, that will take time to get down to what your goal is, which for me is like a one-time 15-minute session.

[0:22:28] PF: Yeah, I was going to ask, how long with people, because I think as far as advice goes, people are saying, “Okay, that’s something I can do. I can worry.” How much time should they build in and how often, if they’re going to start this practice?

[0:22:44] DC: I would say, that you probably are likely looking at starting with a few, a handful of worry sessions throughout the day before you can manage it down to one time of a chunk. You will be shocked and surprised once you’re intentional about it, how much of your day worry thoughts actually come in. Because a lot of times, we’re just doing this and it’s on automatic, and it is raising our cortisol. It is distracting us from what we are needing to do in our lives, because a worry thought comes and then another one comes and we were in the middle of doing whatever we were doing, and now we’re thinking about this and we’re trying to check something else off the list. It just becomes a very paralyzing experience. That is what this is, hopefully, the antidote to is helping you to not be paralyzed by the worries all day long and not be completely overwritten and distracted, which we are in a state of all the time, because of all these thoughts that come into our mind immediately and so quickly, and then on to the next.

What this does is it has a container. It serves as a container for the worry. It doesn’t take them away. When the worry comes in, or a thought comes in, and this can look like an existential worry, or it can be something very specific that you would find on a to-do list. When the thought comes in, and after a while, you get really used to this and you’re like, oh, worry thought coming in. Is this something I need to take care of immediately? Like, for example, shoot, “I forgot to send my child with lunch. Now I’m worried he has no lunch.” That might be something that I need – This happened to me the other day, that I need to take care of right now, and I cannot send that out to my 3 p.m. worry time.

Or is it something I can put there? I literally will jot it down. I have a notepad, or I will put it in my notes if I’m not next to my notepad. I will write down a few words to remind myself that I need to take care of this, or I’m worried about this. Some of it, if you looked at the list, some of them, like I said, could be very specific. Like, oops, forgot to make travel arrangements for this talk that I’m doing. Sometimes just putting it down and sending it off with the container was enough. Then other times, you look at it when you are opening up your worry time and you’re going through it.

You’ve also had space, so you’re not reactive. You can do whatever you want to do during that time, but there’s a limit. Then you always know there’s another container coming. It’s not like you’re sweeping anything under the rug. If anything, you are allowing yourself space and a container to open when you feel and you find yourself like, okay, I know this is coming and I’ve even paired this now with a cup of tea, something that is calming, or comforting, or putting on specific music during my worry time. I am actually equipping myself in a much better way to deal with those worries.

[0:25:45] PF: How will people’s lives change as they start learning some of these skills? You’ve got a lot of different practices, a lot of different ways that they can approach it. What I love about that aspect of your book is they can really go through and choose what resonates with them, whether it’s awe, being in nature, gratitude. There’s not one single simple path to optimism. The end result, what changes will they see in themselves when they start developing these skills of real optimism?

[0:26:15] DC: I always love to share that to me, real optimism is not about denying the dark. It is about giving us a way to see within It. the goal is with all of these micro changes and then some of the bigger emotional, cognitive, perspective, shifting and aha moments that are in the book and the language and the stories and the illustrations and how you use them in your own life, it is to be able to say at the end of it like, “Oh, I can do hard things.” I may not be able to change circumstances and life can be very uncertain and heavy and hard. I’m experiencing that. But now I have these tools to be able to stay engaged and show up and be empowered, and I can keep going. There is a look towards the future and being able to act in a forward, directed motion.

[0:27:17] PF: That’s terrific. Well, Deepika, we are going to tell people how to find you, how to find your book, follow you on social media, all kinds of ways that they can get to know you better. I appreciate you taking this time today, sitting down with me and for writing this book. It’s, like I said, it’s a book for our times.

[0:27:33] DC: Thank you so much for having me.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[0:27:39] PF: That was Dr. Deepika Chopra, talking about optimism and how we can nurture it to handle difficult times. If you’d like to learn more about her research, order her book, The Power of Real Optimism, or follow her on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode.

As I mentioned at the top of the show, we’re celebrating Happiness Month and we’d love to have you join us. Be sure to visit our Live Happy social media pages on Facebook and Instagram and tell us how you’re sharing happiness.

That is all we have time for today. We’ll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.

[END]

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Why optimism is a skill — not a personality trait — and how to strengthen it.
How your brain processes uncertainty and the small, science‑backed practices that help restore safety and regulation.
How tools like visualization, evidence‑collecting, and scheduled “worry time” can shift your mindset and build real resilience.

Visit Dr. Deepika’s website.

Discover her book, The Power of Real Optimism.

Follow Dr. Deepika here:

Instagram: @drdeepikachopra

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