Transcript - Detaching from Political Whiplash With Dr. Bob Rosen

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[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:03] PF: Thank you for joining us for Episode 517 of Live Happy Now. We’re living in rapidly changing times, and many of us feel exhausted by the events that are unfolding. But today’s guest has a strategy to help us through. I’m your host, Paula Felps, and this week, I’m joined by Dr. Bob Rosen, an organizational psychologist, CEO advisor, and bestselling author, known for his work on leadership and personal development.

Bob is the founder and CEO of Healthy Companies International, a consulting firm dedicated to helping leaders and organizations thrive. His latest book, Detach: Ditch Your Baggage to Live a More Fulfilling Life, looks at how we sabotage our happiness with unhealthy emotional attachments. He’s here to explain how we can use his strategies to detach from the political whiplash we’re experiencing right now. Let’s have a listen.

[EPISODE]

[0:00:57] PF: Dr. Bob, thank you so much for joining me on Live Happy Now.

[0:01:01] BR: My pleasure.

[0:01:02] PF: This is a very timely conversation we’re having. Your latest book, Detach, is looking at how certain attachments can hold us back. And before we get into some very specific questions on that, I wondered if you could give us a broad overview, and tell us kind of what that means, and what those attachments are.

[0:01:21] BR: Well, I got interested in this topic. This is my eighth book, and it’s my favorite by far. I got interested, because I noticed that there are some global surveys that show that over the past 10 to 15 years, there’s been a decrease in the amount of happiness around the world. People feel more disconnected and lonely. There’s kind of like a systemic anxiety that is sitting over the world, and there’s more mistrust, more cynicism, more anger, and resentment. And people are just uncomfortable in their own skins.

So, I started thinking about how could we create a personal practical book to help people navigate through these anxious times. That’s where Detach came from. It’s really a blend of Eastern and Western religions. I organized it around the ten attachments, all based in fear that hold people back, that sabotage them, and get in the way of their joy, their freedom, and their overall potential, and fulfillment in the world. That’s really why I wrote Detach.

[0:02:38] PF: I love that you brought up fear, because we don’t realize how much of our emotions are rooted in fear. Right now, there’s a lot of – we can call it anxiety, we can attach other emotions to that, but how does it all go back to fear, all that negative emotion?

[0:02:56] BR: Well, we all experience fear in our lives and fear affects how we think, how we feel, how we act, and it influences our well-being, and quality of life, and success. In fact, fear is probably the most basic emotion, out of which all of the other secondary emotions, like shame, and anger, and guilt, and anxiety emanate from. Fear comes in many shapes, and sizes, and everyone’s demons are different. Some of us fear the truth, they fear the past, or the future, some of us fear success. They may fear people, places, and things. But whatever fears that you have, the key is to become aware of your fears. Underneath each of these attachments is fear.

I had my share of fears early in my life, the fear of financial insecurity, a fear of not being successful, fear of the future. But when I faced them head on, and allowed myself to be uncomfortable, and to confront my self-thinking around them. I was able to replace the fear with the power of love. That’s really what the book is, is really helping people with that transition away from fear to feeling joy and love in their life.

[0:04:23] PF: Right now, there is a lot of fear. There’s a lot of uncertainty and a lot of fear. So, where do people start identifying, or do we need to identify what that fear is based in? What are the steps that we need to take to start this process?

[0:04:40] BR: Right. Well, if I look at the attachments and we look at the reality of what’s going on in the world, people can be fearful of stability. They’re afraid of the reality, that uncertainty is reality, and stability is an illusion. And every time we breathe, the world changes, but no one teaches us about how to thrive in uncertainty. Some people are fearful of the past, whether it’s old memories, or relationships that didn’t work, or whatever. And maybe they had a time when they were having financial difficulties, and this conjures up old feelings of fear from the past, but we’re in the present. We have to forgive those feelings and let go.

Some people are fearful of the future. They live in the future, and they’re constantly worrying about what’s going to happen, but they can’t feel content in the present moment. Other people are fearful about success. They believe that their success comes from outside of them, versus who they are as a person, their purpose, their values, who they are as a human being. When you have expectations that are outside yourself, you make yourself very vulnerable. The healthy people don’t see life from a position of scarcity. They see it as a position of abundance. They have everything that they need right now.

Then, finally, people are worried about the attachment to youth, their aging. We notice this in our minds and bodies. Many of us carry internalized ageism, where we think bad things about what’s happening as we age and we get scared. All of these are attachments that are fear-based, and we have to confront them. I tell stories in the book of real people who have kind of struggled with these attachments, and got through them. Because I think people learn best from stories.

[0:06:51] PF: I think that is such a great way to do it because, one, you’re showing us that someone else has done it, and that’s it. You’re not just preaching to someone about, this is what you should do. You’re really walking us through this process and showing how it can be done. I am curious why – as you said, you’ve written eight books. Why Detach, why now? And again, the timing for me, I think, is remarkable because I feel like it is a book we needed right now. But how did that come about? Because obviously, you didn’t start writing this two months ago.

[0:07:23] BR: Well, I actually had a dream. The dream was about 12, 13 years ago, and I was tied up by these 10 attachments. I couldn’t get loose, and I woke up, and I actually wrote down the attachments. Then, I didn’t have time to write the book. I really wanted to focus on it, it was a personal book. So, I put it in the attic for 13 years, and I decided that I was going to step back from my life a little bit. I was running a consulting firm, and I was getting less joy out of it.

So, I brought the book idea down and I wrote it in a year. I just came off my pen. I made it very personal. I talked about my own stuff as well as other peoples. I read it, because I see that people are totally attached to these things, and they have a choice, consciously, or unconsciously every moment they breathe to choose fear or love. And it seems simple, but it’s complex, and I put a process in place to help do that to become aware of yourself and the external world. Then, to look at the underbelly of the attachments and why you’re feeling that. Then, to paint a picture of the desired state, which is your aspiration for the future, and then, finally come up with actions to change. So, there is a way to get out of this.

[0:08:53] PF: There is a remarkable story about how that all came about. I absolutely love when things just kind of fall into place the way they did. For this episode, I really wanted to talk about detaching from political whiplash, because we have so much going on in our political world. I realize this is not a political podcast. However, politics are affecting every listener that we have. And people are exhausted by the news, the unbelievable speed at which things are changing. So, what advice do you have for people who are just trying to navigate everything that’s going on, and how do we use your detachment theories to do that?

[0:09:33] BR: Well, it’s a really, really important question. First off, everybody’s going through it in their own ways, depending upon their politics and their philosophy about life. But I think most of the problems are in our heads, not outside on the street. Because we carry these fears and attachments along with us. Now, let me make a point, and I think this is a really important point. Detach does not mean disconnected and disengaged, quite the opposite.

It means that we focus on our fears, and breathe through them, and put them aside, which frees up positive energy around our purpose and our values. So, if somebody wants to protest, they can do that without all this harboring anxiety and anger, but they’re going out to make a difference. It doesn’t matter where you stand on politics, it’s just people hold on to that. One of the things that’s really important is to have perspective, okay? Perspective comes from being aware of what’s going on inside of you and accepting the truth for how you’re feeling.

Then, secondly, to choose. Do you want to live that moment in fear or love, and to really address these attachments that are going on? I mean, one of the things that’s really hard for people is the attachment to control. Many of us have an attachment to control. From early childhood, we’re taught to master our environment, to manipulate things, to maneuver, to get what we want. The problem is that we think we can control life, when in fact, much of life is uncontrollable. The best people practice is serenity prayer to understand what they have control over, to understand what they don’t have control over, and to see the wisdom to make a difference between those two. I think that’s really, really important for people is to know.

The other thing is I just took a trip down south, and it was a civil war civil rights trip with my husband. We went down south, and we went to Birmingham, and to Montgomery, and Selma, and Savannah, and Charleston. I was so touched by the past prejudice and where the country was during the Civil War. We are not anywhere near where the country was 150 or 175 years ago. So, we’re going through major bumps, but they’re not catastrophic, and people have been through these situations before.

I guess, one last thing I would say is that, I wrote a book years ago called Just Enough Anxiety. It distinguished between too little anxiety, which was the case of complacency and too much, which is the world of chaos, but just the right amount. Anxiety is important. It’s a positive energy. We just don’t want to be overwhelmed by it, and we want to put it in the right perspective

[0:13:01] PF: That is such great advice, but people right now feel so much anxiety. First of all, how do we start identifying what our real fear is? This obviously sounds like something people need to be still, and spend some time looking inward. I know we want to do things outwardly, but how do we sit down with ourselves and really identify what’s driving these emotions, so that we can get to the root of them, so we can determine how we move forward.

[0:13:29] BR: Well, I wrote the book with questions to dig deep into your self-awareness, both at the front of each chapter, and at the back of each chapter, with the stories and practical recommendations. But one thing I would recommend is meditation, to really block out the extraneous noise on the outside, and to sit quietly, or take a walk in nature, or just be with yourself while you’re on the bike exercising or something, and allow yourself to really get to know what’s going on inside of you. The closer you get to your fears, the better.

Anxiety is not bad, you just have to figure out what the source of it is, and what the deep source of it is, and become comfortable being uncomfortable, and it will go away. It will liberate over time. That’s one of the reasons why people can be attached to pleasure, shopping, drinking, smoking, over eating. The problem is, we chase pleasures to avoid pain. But if we can get comfortable being uncomfortable, we don’t have to get addicted to people and things, and that’s a real problem, as you know, in life.

So, meditation is good. Community is really important. You have to make connection with people. It’s really one of the sources of health that we don’t acknowledge that much. You can’t be alone, you can’t isolate yourself, you have to be able to connect. That’s where women have a real advantage. Women are better connectors than men, and men report that they don’t have friends that they can rely on. So, for women to be able to look inside, and connect with others, and look at their fears, that’s really the source.

[0:15:29] PF: That’s a great starting point. We’ll be right back with more of Live Happy Now. Now, let’s hear from Dr. Bob Rosen. How do we tune out that outside world? How do we shut off the alerts, and the news, and all the things? Because people right now, myself included, feel a greater need to stay informed. Again, you point out, we’re worrying about things we can’t control. My knowing everything that’s going on in the news doesn’t give me any control over it. So, how do we learn to step back? This is something I had done previously like 2016. I quit watching the news, and here I am, back again. How do we learn to take those steps, shut those things out, really turn inward and start finding some of those answers within ourselves?

[0:16:22] BR: Well, you don’t want to run away from your difficult emotions, like anger and fear. During these times, some people turn on the television, and it just activates those negative emotions. I don’t want to suggest that we run away from them, but we have to recognize that we are reacting for lots of reasons, some of which have to do with our past, our fears of the future, our desire to control, our need for perfection in the world, our inability to embrace uncertainty. These are the attachments that get in the way. The more aware we are of those attachments, the freer we become to look at it objectively without being sabotaged or hijacked by them.

[0:17:14] PF: Can you talk about how that’s going to look differently? Because again, it’s not going to change the situation in the world. How is it going to change our response to those situations? And then, how is that going to affect our relationships and the way we’re moving through the world?

[0:17:27] BR: That’s a really good point. I know for myself that I am reacting as well to what’s going on in this country. It makes me sad, it makes me angry, but I can only make a difference in my little sphere of influence. So, what is my circle of influence and how can I make a difference? Then, secondly, is I am not going to let this political environment affect my level of joy, and peace, and fulfillment. I won’t do it. I won’t give up myself to get hijacked by what’s going on, on the television. That’s very important, and it has to do with one thing. Do you love yourself? There are a lot of people who don’t love themselves, and that is very important.

I know many people have gone through the process of learning that they don’t love themselves. They can’t stand up to all these exogenous factors, because they’re not solid inside. So, loving yourself is, I think, the most important thing you can do.

[0:18:49] PF: How will that change if you learn to love yourself? How is that going to change the way that you approach things?

[0:18:56] BR: I think you’ll have more joy in the world. You’ll be more fulfilled with the things that you do have. Unitarians have a great saying. They say, “Do what you can with what you have and be who you are.” I always love that, because each of us is vulnerable in probably one of those three things. So, working on those three things I think become very important.

[0:19:26] PF: Then, how do we do that?

[0:19:28] BR: We’ve created a personalized self-assessment that you can take, 40 items, that gives you feedback and recommendations on each of the 10 attachments. It’s going to go live in the middle of the month. We’re also putting quizzes up on LinkedIn and Instagram if people want to follow me.

[0:19:51] PF: I’ll interrupt real quick, and let them know as well that on the landing page of this episode, there will be links to your quizzes, so that people can participate.

[0:19:57] BR: Oh, great. That’s wonderful.

[0:19:58] PF: I’ll also say, that sometime this month, we’re going to set aside a couple days to offer the book for half price. So, if people go to my website and sign up, you’ll get an email sometime during the month and you can buy the book half price, because I really want to get the word out. Because I really think, I guess, from life experience, I’m 70 years old, and from life experience you do learn something about falling down and getting up. I just want to share it with other people.

[0:20:30] PF: How can we use detachment basically as a strategy for getting through the next few months, years, whatever we have in front of us?

[0:20:39] BR: I guess, the first thing is just to really identify which attachments are causing fear in your life. Then, to focus in on those attachments, and to understand the impact that they’re having, what are the consequences, where does the fear come from. Because each attachment has a source of fear. For example, the attachment to control. Some people are simply fearful of being vulnerable, and being vulnerable is so important to letting go of your need to control things, because you don’t control everything. So, how can you allow yourself to be vulnerable?

Brene Brown has done a really nice job of teaching all of us about vulnerability. This is real tough for men. I think women have a hard time with the attachment to youth. I think they have a hard time with perfection, the attachment to perfection, rather than falling in love with our imperfections. I think women have a hard time with their attachment to the past. They bring old memories and old scar tissue Into their present life and they don’t recognize how their past actually influences their fears of the present.

So, really know the attachment that you’re dealing with, and then that change your behavior. Sometimes, acting into new ways of thinking or feeling is more effective than feeling or thinking your way into acting. Women are good, I think, in self-reflection.

[0:22:22] PF: Right. We like doing that.

[0:22:24] BR: Yeah. Yeah. Women like doing that. The question is, how do you translate that into action and own your personal power to do that? Men, I think, come from a different place. They act their way into thinking and feeling if they’re lucky.

[0:22:42] PF: I like that.

[0:22:45] BR: So, I think we’re all different in this.

[0:22:47] PF: So, what advice do you have for the people right now, who are feeling anxious, they’re stressed about the uncertainty we’re living with? And as you noted, it’s always uncertain. We just are very aware of it right now. So, what would be your advice right now to the listener?

[0:23:03] BR: Know that it will pass. Stock market went down 4,000 points. Now, it’s up 1,000. Who knows what the next week will be. So, stay the course. I think another thing is the control issue, the perspective that I was talking about. Three is to talk amongst your peers about it. We put a book club and a box together for people to come together to read the book, and then, actually go through the attachments and share the attachments with each other. I think that’s a great way of learning, and women are much better at doing that than men.

[0:23:40] PF: I love that, because if you do that as a group, I think we’re all going to be made aware of things within ourselves that we – like someone else brings it up, it’s like, “Oh, man, that sounds like me.” I think that is a great way to approach that. Right now, as you noted, community is so important, and this would be a great way. We’re feeling divided, so this would be a wonderful way for people to bring it all together. So, your book club in a box is that something they can find online or is that –?

[0:24:07] BR: Yes, it’ll be online. It’ll be at my website at bobrosen.com.

[0:24:11] PF: Okay, we’ll include a link to that.

[0:24:13] BR: Along with the assessment. Then, if they give their name and contact information, we’ll send them the link to buy the book half price if they want.

[0:24:23] PF: That’s fantastic. So, as you see how this is affecting people, as you see the opportunity for us to learn how to detach and take a different approach, what’s your prognosis going forward? What’s your hope? How do you think we can use this to move forward?

[0:24:38] BR: Well, I think that answers come from blending Western and Eastern psychology. Eastern psychology teaches us about suffering, and surrender, and embracing uncertainty. Western psychology is all about setting goals, and positive aspirations. And you need to detach before you set positive aspirations. So, really combining that is really important. My prognosis, good and bad, frankly. There are going to be some people who really take this on. The more they do it, the freer they will become, and the happier they will become. A lot of people will ignore it, and they will be driven by their fears and their attachments without even knowing it.

So, just like the history of the United States, we take two steps forward, and one step back, and it’s the history of the country, and hopefully, we sort of strive for a more perfect union with each giant step. I just know for myself that my joy, my fulfillment, my self-love, my commitment to living a good life is non-negotiable. It is non -negotiable. Nothing outside of me will dent that. I think some of it has come from just being gay in society and just learning that nobody is going to take away my self-esteem.

[0:26:19] PF: That is such a wonderful philosophy. I think we all could do well to live more like you do. I appreciate you creating this guidebook to get us there, and I’m excited to share it with the listeners, excited to tell them how to find more about you. We’re going to do that on the landing page. So, thank you for sitting down with me today and sharing this. I so look forward to, like I said, sharing this with everyone that listens to Live Happy Now.

[0:26:45] BR: Thanks, Paula. I really enjoyed it.

[END OF EPISODE]

[0:26:51] PF: That was author and psychologist, Dr. Bob Rosen talking about how to detach from political whiplash. If you like to learn more about Bob, read his latest book, Detach: Ditch Your Baggage to Live a More Fulfilling Life, explore his other work, or follow him on social media. Just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast tab. While you’re there, be sure to sign up for our all-new Live Happy newsletter, so you can avoid the bad news and get more of what’s good in your inbox. Enjoy the latest research on happiness, uplifting stories, our look for the Good Word Search Puzzle, book recommendations, and of course, our happy song of the week. That’s all we have time for today. We’ll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.

[END]

In this episode, you’ll learn:

The 10 attachments that hold us back and block our joy/fulfillment.
The role that fear plays in our attachments – and how to confront that fear.
How looking at world events objectively changes our response to them.

Discover other books by Dr. Bob Rosen.

Visit Dr. Bob’s website.

Follow Dr. Bob on Social Media:

Facebook: @bob.rosen.560
LinkedIn: @bobrosen

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