Transcript - Creating True Connectability With Anna Runkle

Follow along with the transcript below for episode: Creating True Connectability With Anna Runkle

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:03] PF: Thank you for joining us for episode 540 of Live Happy Now. We all crave connections, so what do we do when we find ourselves disconnected and alone? I’m your host, Paula Felps, and this week, I’m talking with Anna Runkle, better known as the Crappy Childhood Fairy, to talk about her new book, Connectability. As you’re about to discover, Anna is an expert in helping people heal their trauma symptoms and one of the biggest challenges for many is creating connections. She’s here to talk about why connecting is so essential, but also so difficult, how trauma affects our connections, and how you can find your people. Let’s have a listen.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:00:43] PF: Anna, thank you so much for being with me here today.

[0:00:46] AR: Thank you, Paula.

[0:00:47] PF: The first thing that I would love to hear from you, because this is the thing about you that completely won me over, is tell our listeners how you came to be known as the Crappy Childhood Fairy.

[0:01:01] AR: I started out with a very serious and clinical sounding name. It started as a blog, and I started writing a couple of blog posts. Within two blog posts, without even – I hadn’t even published them yet. I was boring myself to death. Honestly, the thing that I would want to read, or watch, or listen to on a podcast, there’s got to be a few laughs in it. With my friends who I had been healing with up to that date, the best form of how you know you’re healing is you’re having a laugh with your friends. There’s nothing better. Yeah.

[0:01:32] PF: I love that. It is. That’s so very true. We talked about that on the show, about the importance of humor and being able to just how good it is for us to be able to laugh. Even if you’re using darker gallows humor, I know Dr. Robyne Hanley-Dafoe has talked about that a bit about how gallows humor, it’s still healing for us. We use it and it’s a form of resilience and recovery that we tap into.

[0:01:55] AR: Yeah. I do end up teaching about some very hard things. Together with my audience, sometimes we’re facing some hard things. It’s not like it’s not it’s all funny, but there is a little humor about it. It also is a little bit of a signal, this isn’t therapy. We’re working on tactical solutions to make things better.

[0:02:15] PF: Yeah, that’s terrific. The book that we want to talk about today is Connectability. First of all, so we all know that we’re talking about the same thing. Can you define what you mean by connectability?

[0:02:28] AR: Well, it’s a word I made up maybe 20 years ago when I was really becoming painfully aware that I didn’t have very strong connections with people I thought I did. But when I was going through a hard time, I was in and out of the hospital several times. I was a single mom and I didn’t have much help. I mean, not nearly enough. I didn’t even have people to drive me home from the hospital, let alone help with the kids. I thought, where did everybody go? I thought I had a lot of people in my life and friends, but I didn’t have the friends who were there for you when friendship meant you come do some dishes and drive to the airport and things like that. I set about to try to figure out what was wrong.

This was a good many years into my healing process from childhood PTSD. While I had a lot of chops and skills under my belt with that, it was the connection thing that ended up being the hard part. I started, when I started Crappy Childhood Fairy about eight years ago, I would talk about things that I thought were all about trauma. I didn’t even really realize how much not feeling connected was a trauma symptom. I literally thought it was just me. It was like my little problem. Here, now, let me teach you about trauma.

When I started to talk about what I had experienced, the whole audience would just come back and say, “Me, too. That’s exactly what it’s like. I’ve never felt so understood.” Because I had been working out a way out of this shallow relationship problem, I have practical tips and I’ve been coaching people and leading courses in it ever since. I had to write a book. I had to get this out there, because now it’s everybody’s problem. It’s not just for traumatized people.

[0:04:05] PF: Yeah. You start your book, the introduction, you start by sharing that story. It really, I just felt so sad when I was reading it, because I know there are many people who are in that same state, and it really just showed you were feeling very lost and confused and you were just so alone. We don’t want that for anyone in our lives. That is really a compelling way to open it. I have to say, that really, really struck me.

[0:04:32] AR: Oh, thank you.

[0:04:33] PF: You shared that story. I guess, as we hear so much about the loneliness epidemic and all the problems, I know the World Health Organization just a couple of months ago released a study about the problem of loneliness worldwide. How common is it for people to be disconnected in today’s world?

[0:04:51] AR: If I were a sociologist, I could probably give you some excellent numbers on that. I know that certainly among my audience, it’s virtually everyone. It’s often a bullet point when they list symptoms of early trauma in childhood. I don’t think they totally understand what it’s like. That’s what I’ve been working to describe. This is what it feels like. You just feel like you don’t belong. You don’t feel connected to the people who are right in front of you. It’s as if there’s a wall between you and other people. That’s the common experience. What is that? That’s what I set out to understand. What is that? It can be a number of things, or it can be all of them at the same time. Part of it begins during neglect in childhood when it actually influences your brain development and literally, makes it hard to sense connection with other people.

[0:05:41] PF: I think it might be difficult for someone who doesn’t have that feeling to understand just the depth of that and how difficult it is. Because we might have a friend who is doing that that we don’t even realize doesn’t feel connected to us. They might be there, but they’re not quite present. I think that’s a good point for us to make, too, is like, how do we know if someone else is in that state? How do we help someone else who might be feeling that disconnection?

[0:06:12] AR: Oh. Well, I’m such a champion of focusing on the things that we can change within ourselves. I think the strongest thing we can do to influence other people is to be in a really good place ourselves. When people saw me transform, when I first started healing from my trauma wounds, when they first saw me go from very depressed and discombobulated to focused and happy, everybody wanted to know how I did it. I instantly had a lot of fans 30 years ago when I started changing my life. I think that’s the most powerful thing you can do.

We hide our loneliness from other people. I’ve given a name to something that I call covert avoidance. There are some people who are very obviously isolating, hiding out from society. We’ll just call them overt avoiders. They don’t want to deal with people. What so many of us are doing is we’re trying to manage our own stress by holding people at arm’s length. We go through the motions of having relationships and social connections, but they’re not very real. We’re not really going deep. We’re not really revealing ourselves. We’re not really being present with other people. Usually, the only people who are interested in that friendship are that way themselves. You might not know you’re doing it, until a crisis comes up when you really need people. Like me, you find out, nobody was really there for you.

[0:07:28] PF: What is that connection between childhood trauma and disconnection?

[0:07:34] AR: We know that a kid who is neglected in early childhood, it affects brain development. That feeling of being connected to other people is probably a function of that, of the neural pathways that are developed because of close, intimate connection between parent and child, all the touch and eye contact and talking. If a parent is checked out, high, drunk, absorbed in very difficult other problems, away from the kids, has died, was never part of parenting at all, then there’s something that can happen, where the capacity to feel connected to other people just doesn’t develop normally.

[0:08:11] PF: Then, you do a great job of walking us through these exercises. I’ve got to say this book is fantastic, because it’s so interactive. It is as interactive as you can get, without it being on a tablet and actually answering you. How did you go about developing these checklists and these exercises that you give us to reconnect?

[0:08:31] AR: Well, I’ve been teaching this for about 30 years. I use a technique called the daily practice that I teach in both of my books. I teach it in a free course online. It’s something that somebody showed me that absolutely saved my life. At the time, I was just overwhelmed with PTSD symptoms. I already had had a very difficult childhood. I was raised in a commune. My mother was a drug addict and alcoholic. We had a lot of the problems that you would imagine that household would have, if you can call it a household. But very unstable. Not always enough food, not safety, no one listening.

In one sense, we were feral, my siblings and me. I was also very well adapted at making connections with my friends’ mothers. I had some friends from school, I would latch on to their mothers. They seemed to know that things were difficult in my house. When I was a kid, they didn’t call authorities when they saw this thing going on, the violence and the chaos, or a little kid coming and asking for food. They just helped me out. And teachers, too. I found people.

A little bit, I had some advantages that I had the instinct to go out and make connections with people who could take care of me. That was a good survival strategy. When I was in adulthood, a lot of the things that we do to survive as kids through tough times, they become liabilities. Being very dependent on other people to fix your problems, for example, or feeling like, I don’t know, there was a sense of temporariness to all my relationships. They were all just sort of, like let’s just fill in some time here. Let’s have some people in my life here, until the real thing comes along. I think that was the vague sense.

There I was, 30-years-old and I didn’t – I had this rough episode where my mother had died. I had my heart broken and I was attacked on the street. I got very, very dysregulated. I had PTSD. I would say, I have to diagnose myself, because in those days, they didn’t think of people who had been assaulted, for example, as PTSD candidates, necessarily. That wasn’t picked up. I was advised to go talk about it three times a week to a therapist, to take Xanax. Both of those things made me feel much worse.

A friend happened to offer to show me these techniques I do. They’re very calming. They’re way to get the stressful, the fearful and resentful thoughts out and on paper and ask for them to be removed. She suggested I follow this technique with meditation and do it twice a day. I thought, that’s ridiculous. I’m such a tough case. Nothing works on me. I just get worse and worse. Within two weeks, I would say, I didn’t have depression, or PTSD anymore. That’s the first big wave of healing I had. That’s when people started going, “Anna, what happened to you? What are you doing?” Like, “I’ll show you if you want.” My whole life since then has been showing people how to use these techniques.

What I now know, the word that I now know that they treat is dysregulation. They help you get re-regulated. That’s really calm. People are talking about that a lot now, dysregulation and re-regulation. Usually, what people are talking about is emotional dysregulation, and that will definitely ruin your relationships. It’s the aspect of dysregulation that is visible to other people, because it hurts them, but there’s a lot of other things going on with your health, your blood flow, your immune system, your ability to process information and remember things.

It does a number on you, when your nervous system is glitching like that. It’s very normal for people who were traumatized as kids to get dysregulated. Everybody gets dysregulated somewhat, but traumatized people have it worse.

I noticed in my view, so I ended up going into a whole different direction to try to change my life. I was getting reregulated without knowing that was the word for it. That was to come much later. It wasn’t even in the lexicon, until Bessel van der Kolk named it in The Body Keeps the Score. I was getting re-regulated, calming myself, and then making changes in my life. That’s the thing, when you’re isolated, if you’ve been living dysregulated, there’s these self-defeating behaviors that creep out. That’s my view of trauma, of how I experienced it and how to approach helping it.

I’m not a therapist, but this is how I did it and I talk to people about it. First, you regulate your nervous system, then you work on your connections, then you work on your self-defeating behaviors. Sometimes it goes in a completely different order, because first, maybe somebody stops drinking, or something when that’s been a problem. That allows them to get more re-regulated. That allows them to have more better connections. You go in whatever order you have to, but these are the three areas.

In my first book, I did the deep dive in dysregulation. In Connectability, I wanted to go deeper, because this is the thing that so many people are feeling right now, that they can’t connect and they don’t know why. If you came from a dysfunctional family, you may not have had it modeled for you, how to act appropriately when you have company over, how to behave in somebody else’s house when you are the guest, how to ask somebody out on a date, how to say no to somebody about something they’ve invited you to. There’s that layer. Then, so many people have gotten bullied, or ostracized in some other way beyond their childhood home.

[0:13:41] PF: We’ll be right back with more of Live Happy Now.

[BREAK]

[0:13:49] PF: Now, let’s hear more from Anna Runkle.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]

[0:13:53] PF: What I like, too, is that your book really puts the power back in the hands of the reader.

[0:13:58] AR: Yeah.

[0:13:59] PF: How important is it for the individual to realize that this isn’t just one more thing that’s happening to them, but this is something that they can get ahead of, that they can take control of?

[0:14:12] AR: Yeah. I think in our culture, we emphasize a lot what other people are doing, the circumstances that are hard for us, the people who harmed us. That’s real, too. It needs to be acknowledged, perhaps. But things don’t begin to really change until we find the things that we have control over. We can’t control other people much. We can’t control the past at all. My emphasis is on, what’s going on right now? What are the symptoms that you’re having and what can you do to change it?

For connecting, there are very concrete things that I show you how to do, to start coming out of isolation, whether it’s obvious isolation, or it’s the covert kind where you’re doing things, but you’re never really connecting, and how to identify what are your obstacles to connecting and then walking you through the path to be able to do the real thing, to be able to form the friendships that feel great to you, that are sustaining, that are mutual, that are there for you and you’re there for them, the kind we all crave.

[0:15:07] PF: One of the things that I noticed about it is it’s really suitable for someone, whether they’ve had zero connections in their life, whether they’ve been drifting their whole time, or if they were in a space, like maybe they’ve been in a long-term relationship and have just somehow drifted away from all their outside connections, or whatever that circumstance is, because people are disconnected for different reasons and at different ages and stages of life, but this really covers them all.

[0:15:36] AR: Yeah, it’s practical. It’s a set of things that you can do. It’s a set of checklists and things. You had asked how I came up with them, but I have a thing called crappy childhood fairy that’s a company that’s full of courses, coaching programs, we have communities and groups that get together, and I’m often creating exercises for all of that, where people can do the self-examination and to see what they want to work on next. It’s not therapy. It’s coaching and people get to choose their own goals out of it. But I never dreamed how common it was for people to feel like I did, that there was just some invisible layer there that made it hard to connect.

[0:16:11] PF: How has that helped you to see the response that you have to this?

[0:16:18] AR: Yeah, isn’t it funny? I literally thought I was the only person. I thought it was a unique quirk to me, a personal failing. When I started talking about it in my YouTube videos and then thousands of people came back at me going, “I have that, too. That’s exactly what it’s like. That’s the first time anybody really got it. I had the exact same experience.” Well, then you’re the first person who ever got me. It’s just been this wonderful healing thing to be able to know, it’s a thing, it’s not a character flaw. It’s a thing and I’m not alone with it.

I’ve had to go ahead and find a way to heal. I think I’ve gotten very good at it, actually. I still have signs of complex PTSD sometimes, especially under stress. But by and large, I just have great relationships with people and a husband and friends, good relationships with my kids. When I do have problems with people, it is hard for me just like it would be for anybody, but I know what to do now. I know what to do.

[0:17:14] PF: What if someone feels, they’re hearing your voice but they’re thinking like, “Yeah, but you don’t know how bad my situation is. You don’t know what I’ve been through. This cannot help me.” What do you say to someone who is feeling that desperate?

[0:17:28] AR: Well, I have a bit of a philosophy about that. If people don’t think I can help them, I don’t try. People are clamoring for my help. The good thing about being a YouTuber is I’m able to put out there my philosophy, my what I propose. A lot of the information about where I’m coming from is right there. By the time people ever contact me for help, they know what I’m about. They know that they’re interested, so I seldom get that. But I do see what you’re talking about in the comments like, “What’s the point? Nothing can be done.” That is trauma talking. The thing is, it is literally never too late. It’s never too late to start working on this stuff.

Some of the most connectable people I’ve ever met were very, very old. Some of the people who have changed their lives in the most important ways did it in their 70s and 80s. I think in a way, older people have a unique advantage. They’ve already had the disenchantment that if they just met the right guy, or got skinny enough. Obviously, that’s not going to change anything. They’ve had that experience. They’ve gotten their answer on that one, and that the change comes from in here and they’re ready for that.

A lot of younger people, too, though, with younger people, I think it’s just human nature that when we’re young, we’re very quick to blame society. There are definitely societal forces that are making it harder to connect with people. But it doesn’t do any good to wait for them to change. Sometimes, I could tell they’re young, they’ll say to me like, “How can you propose that somebody stop having dysfunctional relationships, when the whole society doesn’t even have healthcare for you?” I’m like, “All right my friend, you go solve that problem. I’ll go work, having better connections with people.” I’ve already had the experience. I’ve literally tried to change the whole healthcare system. Maybe I made an impact in my small way, then I moved on. I didn’t change the world. I think that’s one of the good things, as you mature is that you’re a lot more focused on where your lever is to be able to make a change and it’s here.

[0:19:24] PF: There are studies that show, as we get older, we do get happier. Of course, you do have to be taking some action. You can’t just count on, “Hey, once I turn 70, I’m going to feel great.”

[0:19:36] AR: Yeah. I know it’s true for me. Things got a lot better for me over 50. This whole doing Crappy Childhood Fairy was a career that started for me at age 53, or 54. So, yeah. I was planning it. It was something that had been a side project for me and it just took off and became my entire career, but it’s always been my calling.

[0:19:56] PF: Yeah. Yes, it definitely, and that shows. With younger people, with Gen Z and even now we’re getting down to Gen Alpha, there’s so much, like I don’t know the last World Happiness Report is showing that in the US, we’re the only country where the younger you are, the unhappier you are.

[0:20:14] AR: Yeah. Are we the only one? I know that the young people are, they’re unhappy, but also, they’re the loneliest.

[0:20:19] PF: Yes. Yes. If you put your program into that context, how can you even start tackling what they’re going through? It’s a different generational situation.

[0:20:31] AR: Well, I do have young viewers. Some people say, I’m the mom they wish they had. I’m very happy to play that role. My own kids don’t take my advice at all.

[0:20:41] PF: But you got thousands of other children that do.

[0:20:42] AR: I have two sons in their early 20s. Sometimes people say, “Oh, I love your voice.” When people are ready, when they are hungry for the message, I’m the teacher who appears. Just among my friends, most of them, they probably never watch my YouTube channel. They don’t even know this. I’m just a regular person. But I have, because the people who knew me 30 years ago are almost never in my life anymore, because I burned my bridges with everybody, intentionally or not.

The people in my life today, they don’t even think of me as somebody who’s been through all that stuff, but it’s here where I help people who are going through it, too, where we have that profound connection of understanding each other, yes, I do know what it’s like, and I know how to get out of it and I can show people how.

[0:21:29] PF: I love that. With your book, you give us a promise at the end, which is what everybody wants, because it’s talking about ways to find your people. That is so important, because I hear that a lot, people don’t know how to find friends, they don’t know how to find their tribe. How do people start doing that, once they’ve solved some of their own connectability problems, how do they start finding the right people?

[0:21:58] AR: Well, when they’ve cleared away some of the obstacles, they have some boundaries. They have a capacity to tolerate the stress of being around people, just a little bit outside their comfort zone, and they have tools to be able to calm down afterwards, because it is, people are stressful. That’s why we avoid them. You need tools to prepare to hang out with people and to recover afterwards and do gut checks and go slowly. Then, you need to clear away, most of the time, especially if you have trauma, your life is populated by people who are not good to you. They’re boring for you, they don’t fit and they’re outright unkind, or abusive. Those relationships, you can release. You can release those.

We often don’t, unless we’re very, very focused and ready to change, because it’s scary to let go of the only relationships you have. It’s terrifying. You know you’re going to be alone. But it’s only going to be for a while. A lot of times, holding on to these negative relationships, where somebody’s putting you down, or you’re having to dumb down, or just to have anybody in your life at all, the emptiness afterwards very quickly becomes a fruitful emptiness. A time of self-reflection when you can see the pattern of what’s been going on, you can see where’s the wound, you can pursue things, a 12-step program, therapy, something. You begin to learn, you begin to pursue hobbies that you like.

As your personality comes out and starts shining through, then people who are more suited to who you are now, the more healed version of you, they start to appear in your life, and you can then recognize them for what they are. This is an ugly fact. If you have had a lot of trauma and you tend to gravitate towards, or allow people into your life who are dysfunctional, or mistreat you, it dims you down. It hurts your perception quite a bit. It also changes your vibe. I think when we say vibe, a lot of times, what we’re talking about is the state of our nervous system that other people can feel. Your nervous system in mind, if we could be in the same room, we’d feel each other. We’d sense things. But not if we were all shut down with avoidance strategies and stress and trauma and possibly, some addiction behavior.

It’s like being a monk for a little while. We don’t know how long it’s going to last. Hopefully, not for long, but hopefully, you get some time. It’s very easy to want to rush in to more relationships, a new partner, a bunch of new friends. But if you can start to enjoy some time alone, your awareness can come back, so that you could even become a person who can do a gut check. Then, when you begin to have a coffee with a new person, you can ask your gut, how does this person feel with me? Do I feel drained? Do I feel embarrassed about how they talk to me about something? Do I feel misunderstood? Or do I feel good and excited and I hope we do it again?

Did we have a laugh? Did we have something that we loved talking about in depth? That’s a sign. That’s your gut check to tell you, okay, now you’re getting in the zone. What’s that game we used to play as kids where you go, “You’re getting hotter. You’re getting hotter”?

[0:24:51] PF: Oh, yeah. That’s right. That’s right.

[0:24:53] AR: Yeah. You can tell when you’re getting hotter. But in a weird way, we’re feeling our way through it in a way that we didn’t have a chance to do before. Now, we have a chance. We’re doing things that some people did when they were 13-years-old, or younger, where they were starting to learn how to hang out with people, how to feel peace inside with them, how to say no, how to delay gratification, how to share, all of these things that if we had been parented very well, we might have learned early on and it would have been folded into our whole lives. But it’s okay to start learning them now. It’s entirely productive and fruitful and starts making life sweeter right away.

[0:25:31] PF: You are a fantastic guide through this journey. Really excited for your book to come out. What is it that you most hope that this book accomplishes? It’s not your first book, and you’ve done so many other things, but what is your one wish for Connectability?

[0:25:47] AR: I think, the real goal of life, as well as all of our efforts at trying to heal from hard times is to become our full and real selves. I don’t mean in the 60s hippies way, necessarily, of just do whatever you want. But to really bring your gifts into the world. I do believe, everybody has something that they’re meant to be bringing to the world. A lot of us are too hurt and too suppressed to be able to bring it, and it leads to this haunted feeling of emptiness and aloneness.

If we’re going to access that full part of ourselves, part of what we’re going to have to have our relationships with people. You can do this much healing all by yourself. But the wound is relational, the solution also has to be through relationships. It’s trial and error and you need a way to be able to tolerate it. Being a little stressful to try and to test the waters to find out who your people are. The book, by the way, has a whole thing that functions as an etiquette guide, about how to be a good conversationalist and things that just aren’t taught anymore.

[0:26:48] PF: Yeah. It’s really good. As I was reading it, I was really struck by some of the things that I wouldn’t even have thought of, but it’s like, yeah, that’s important to bring out, the conversation starters and explaining to people how they might shut things down. That was, again, I hadn’t thought about that. I thought that was so well done, and what a great gift for people who just haven’t been given that toolkit before.

[0:27:12] AR: Yeah. Or people who got rusty, because life got hard, or because of the pandemic, or a divorce, or something that happened that took them away from people, which you aptly described at the beginning. It’s easy to slip into disconnection.

[0:27:26] PF: This is a terrific book. You’ve got so much that you can share with us. We’re going to tell our listeners how they can find you, how they can find the book, how they can find you on YouTube, take advantage of your courses. For now, I just wish you the best of success with this book and thank you so much for joining me today.

[0:27:40] AR: Thank you, Paula.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[0:27:46] PF: That was Anna Runkle, talking about her new book Connectability: Heal the Hidden Ways You Isolate, Find Your People and Feel (At Last) Like You Belong. If you’d like to learn more about Anna, try her free course, The Daily Practice, or follow her on social media, just visit us at livehappy.com and click on this podcast episode.

That is all we have time for today. We’ll meet you back here again next week for an all-new episode. Until then, this is Paula Felps, reminding you to make every day a happy one.

[END]

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Why disconnection is often a hidden symptom of early trauma and how it affects our ability to build relationships.
Practical, nontherapy tools from Connectability to regulate your nervous system and begin forming authentic bonds.
How letting go of unhealthy relationships and practicing new social skills can help you “find your people” at any age or stage of life.

Visit Anna’s website here.

Check out her book, CONNECTABILITY: Heal the Hidden Ways You Isolate, Find Your People, And Feel (At Last) Like You Belong.

Follow Anna on Social Media:

Instagram: @crappychildhoodfairy
YouTube: @crappychildhoodfairy

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